Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GeeGolly]

30 minutes ago, lascuba said:

It's been really surprising to me that the defense is naming specific people as possible suspects. I understand making the argument that it others might have had access to the computer, but to be in court and accuse other people of the crime is the sort of thing I assumed only happened in TV and movie and isn't actually allowed.

I haven't clicked on any of the links. Are they naming them or have they been super sleuthed outed?

[quarks]

5 hours ago, merylinkid said:

I'm on the defense side here.   The "case agent" is not a party.   he's a witness.   PERIOD.   Sequestered means sequestered.   he doesn't get to sit through the trial and then get to testify and have his testimony influenced by things he heard at trial.   THIS one, I will give the Defense.   Government is wrong.    The government has a strong case why play shenanigans like this?   

 

I think the defense will get most of the witnesses sequestered - that seems like a reasonable request - but I can see a potential problem here on their side with Travis Story, who is both one of Josh's attorneys and the agent of record for the business in question here.  It sounds to me as if some questions are going to be asked about the business records to help clarify just when Randall Berry started to work at the car lot. 

31 minutes ago, lascuba said:

It's been really surprising to me that the defense is naming specific people as possible suspects. I understand making the argument that it others might have had access to the computer, but to be in court and accuse other people of the crime is the sort of thing I assumed only happened in TV and movie and isn't actually allowed.

Well, to be fair, they haven't said this in the trial yet! Just in court motions. And they are mostly phrasing this as "Other people had access to the computer! Including Mize! Who could have sent someone else to buy something with his credit card at a Walmart a good hundred miles away!"

 

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

Sounds like that might be the only thing the defense and prosecution agree on. 😂

I would not be surprised to hear that the Missouri attorney is doing a lot of head-thunking here. 

 

8 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I haven't clicked on any of the links. Are they naming them or have they been super sleuthed outed?

 

All three have been identified/named in court documents, along with Matthew Waller, who testified in the previous hearing, and Caleb Williams, who used the printer at the car lot.

[GeeGolly]

I'm really curious why a lawyer would have, and be able to attest to, a business's employees. We were business owners for years and our lawyer knew nothing about who we employed, how many we employed, or when they worked there. Our accountant and Uncle Sam did, but not our lawyer.

Edited November 11, 2021 by GeeGolly

[Minivanessa]

48 minutes ago, lascuba said:

It's been really surprising to me that the defense is naming specific people as possible suspects. I understand making the argument that it others might have had access to the computer, but to be in court and accuse other people of the crime is the sort of thing I assumed only happened in TV and movie and isn't actually allowed.

 

2 minutes ago, quarks said:

Well, to be fair, they haven't said this in the trial yet! Just in court motions. And they are mostly phrasing this as "Other people had access to the computer! Including Mize! Who could have sent someone else to buy something with his credit card at a Walmart a good hundred miles away!"

Yep. The good old SODDI (Some Other Dude Did It) defense. We'll see what gets admitted into evidence at trial. And technically it doesn't even have to be SODDI but "Some Other Dude COULD Have Done It." The defense in a criminal trial just has to create enough reasonable doubt in the jury's mind as to whether the defendant did what the prosecution has charged them with doing. They don't have to prove that SODDI or even name the other dude necessarily. But prosecutors know all that and bring charges, and put on evidence at trial, accordingly. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

I wonder what behind the scenes plans JB is making for Anna and her children. If there is a multiple decades long prison sentence, will he support the family or is he quietly looking for another ”gentleman”  to possibly take them off of his hands (ie, a quickie divorce with a payoff followed by a just as quick remarriage). 

[Churchhoney]

4 hours ago, quarks said:

 

I will note that both sides have been indicating since July that something is seriously off with the business records, to the point of hinting that these records have been forwarded to other authorities. federal agents during the raid? 

I would guess there's something seriously off with every set of Duggar-related  business records that exist. 😁

[Dianaofthehunt]

16 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

I wonder what behind the scenes plans JB is making for Anna and her children. If there is a multiple decades long prison sentence, will he support the family or is he quietly looking for another ”gentleman”  to possibly take them off of his hands (ie, a quickie divorce with a payoff followed by a just as quick remarriage). 

I can’t imagine JB making Anna do such a thing, or even trying to *persuade* her to do such. I think he’s planning on financially supporting the whole rabbit’s nest, though I’m curious how little money he’ll be left with after the trial and subsequent appeal/s.

[SunnyBeBe]

So, the Feds haven’t found anything irregular in the Duggar business records?  No tax issues?  Hmmmm…..man….

[Quilt Fairy]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

If there was really a break in at the car lot, it was likely for a place to sleep

Yes, the only break-in I have heard mentioned so far is that one of the 3 "witnesses" admitted he broke in to one of the RVs to sleep overnight.   I can't imagine anyone wanting to break in to the toll booth. 

It amuses me to think that Josh's car lot had so many vehicles they needed to print stickers for them - just like a real car lot. 

[emmawoodhouse]

49 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, the Feds haven’t found anything irregular in the Duggar business records?  No tax issues?  Hmmmm…..man….

I don't think the feds have disclosed what they've found in the business records aside from employment dates of the 3 employees implicated. I'm sure there's something else there they can use. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[quarks]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm really curious why a lawyer would have, and be able to attest to, a business's employees. We were business owners for years and our lawyer knew nothing about who we employed, how many we employed, or when they worked there. Our accountant and Uncle Sam did, but not our lawyer.

Well, in this particular case Travis Story and Gregory R Payne were also the defense attorneys for one of the employees! 

That probable ethics violation aside, Travis Story is the agent on record for at least some of the Duggar businesses, and according to the defense attorneys (who include Story and Payne) he was the individual who responded to the subpoena for the car lot records in that specific capacity (as the agent of record, not as a defense attorney).

Ordinarily I wouldn't think that this would require Story to testify. But there are some questions here regarding Randall Berry's employment records, and I think it's at least possible that Story could be asked to testify about them.  

2 hours ago, Stacey1014 said:

I wonder what behind the scenes plans JB is making for Anna and her children. If there is a multiple decades long prison sentence, will he support the family or is he quietly looking for another ”gentleman”  to possibly take them off of his hands (ie, a quickie divorce with a payoff followed by a just as quick remarriage). 

I know the tabloids have been talking about a potential 40 year sentence, but most attorneys are thinking 5 to 10 years.

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Yes, the only break-in I have heard mentioned so far is that one of the 3 "witnesses" admitted he broke in to one of the RVs to sleep overnight.   I can't imagine anyone wanting to break in to the toll booth. 

 

I have no idea why anyone would want to break into that office, but the defense is claiming that Mize did: 

"The evidence will establish that Mize was regularly present at the car lot and, on at least one occasion, unlawfully entered the office where the HP desktop computer was without Duggar’s knowledge or consent."

And

"Mize—who has regularly frequented the car lot and has historically broken into the office without Duggar’s knowledge or consent—"

[Fosca]

17 hours ago, Stacey1014 said:

I wonder what behind the scenes plans JB is making for Anna and her children. If there is a multiple decades long prison sentence, will he support the family or is he quietly looking for another ”gentleman”  to possibly take them off of his hands (ie, a quickie divorce with a payoff followed by a just as quick remarriage). 

My guess is, JB will just add them to the TTH.  Anna can help Jana take care of the kids and the house.  That's what he did when Josh went to Jesus Jail, so I'm sure they'll do the same.  He might let Anna remarry (though she wouldn't), but the grandkids are his and he doesn't let go of what's his.

[Minivanessa]

2 minutes ago, Fosca said:

My guess is, JB will just add them to the TTH.  Anna can help Jana take care of the kids and the house.  That's what he did when Josh went to Jesus Jail, so I'm sure they'll do the same.  He might let Anna remarry (though she wouldn't), but the grandkids are his and he doesn't let go of what's his.

I recently read Lovingly Abused, a memoir by Heather Grace Heath of growing up in an ATI (Gothardite) family and her life after leaving that behind. I've learned quite a bit about that world from this forum, but I learned more from the book. One eye-opener was how DIRE and DOOMING it is to be divorced. There was a multi-page questionnaire* that families had to complete in order to be accepted as members of ATI. She mentioned a family friend, a nice man who was all on board with ATI/IBLP and the whole thing. But he couldn't actually be accepted for ATI membership - because he had been divorced. I believe there were ways to have exceptions made - but overall you were basically unclean and not wanted if you were divorced.

That SEVERE (thank you, Jill R) attitude toward divorce, I think, permeates Anna's and JB's world view. I don't know if it would rule out divorcing a guy serving time in federal prison for possession of CSAM, because in my opinion it shouldn't. But these are people whose guru Bill Gothard taught that rape victims should determine what they did to cause the rape and even if they can't find any cause they should be grateful for the rape because it's an opportunity for them to grow spiritually. With that kind of thinking, I suppose the wife of a guy who's busted and imprisoned for having CSAM should thank Jesus for her opportunity to grow closer to the Lord as she walks through all the challenges. And no doubt search her own heart and mind to determined how she failed as a wife that caused her husband to commit those crimes in the first place.

tl; dr: Anna would never divorce Josh and certainly not with JB's blessing. Their belief system is too strong against it.

*I wonder if JB used the ATI family membership application as his inspiration for the 50 page application he required guys to submit in order to get permission to court a Duggar daughter. BTW did we ever figure out if young women had to fill out such an application for a courtship with one of the Duggar Fungible Sons?

[GeeGolly]

Do you all think Anna will move into the TTH, or stay in the warehouse? It seems kind of 'dangerous' to let a married woman sleep in a house without an accountability partner.

Poor Jana, she's gone from 8 roomies, down to 5 (including Laura). If Anna moves in, she'll be up to 10 roomies.

The boys' room is practically empty though, so moving the three boys in there would be no big deal.

Maybe Laura and Jana could have the laundry room suite.

[Minivanessa]

21 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Do you all think Anna will move into the TTH, or stay in the warehouse? It seems kind of 'dangerous' to let a married woman sleep in a house without an accountability partner.

Poor Jana, she's gone from 8 roomies, down to 5 (including Laura). If Anna moves in, she'll be up to 10 roomies.

The boys' room is practically empty though, so moving the three boys in there would be no big deal.

Maybe Laura and Jana could have the laundry room suite.

Yes, if Anna's such a bad wife that her husband downloaded and viewed CSAM, she's probably not to be trusted even living right there on the TTH property without an adult actually in her home as an accountability partner. 

Really, these people are nuts.

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, Jeeves said:

 

*I wonder if JB used the ATI family membership application as his inspiration for the 50 page application he required guys to submit in order to get permission to court a Duggar daughter. BTW did we ever figure out if young women had to fill out such an application for a courtship with one of the Duggar Fungible Sons?

He definitely used ATI applications as his guide. There's another one for Alert, which is mainly aimed at ferreting out in how many ways the young guys have failed to be sufficiently obedient to their parents and, specifically, to their fathers. (and also aimed at convincing said young men that the number of ways in which you can evilly disobey without even realizing it are virtually infinite)

I've seen that questionnaire. It's also really really long. And it's a clear model for the stuff JB tries to dig out of prospective sons-in law -- both in content and in tone and form. It's full of accusations and trickery. Those forms are horrifying and JB and M embraced them eagerly and probably continue to, in one way or another.

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Churchhoney

[lascuba]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Do you all think Anna will move into the TTH, or stay in the warehouse? It seems kind of 'dangerous' to let a married woman sleep in a house without an accountability partner.

Poor Jana, she's gone from 8 roomies, down to 5 (including Laura). If Anna moves in, she'll be up to 10 roomies.

The boys' room is practically empty though, so moving the three boys in there would be no big deal.

Maybe Laura and Jana could have the laundry room suite.

I think Anna will only leave the warehouse if JB decides to rent it out to someone else, and even then I'd be surprised if she moved into the TTH.

I'm probably giving these people way too much credit, but I don't think the accountability thing would be an issue here. She's raising 7 children while financially dependent on her in laws. As long as she's going to church and doing churchy things, I doubt anyone would worry about her needing a chaperone.

[hathorlive]

On 11/10/2021 at 11:12 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Yep.  I was on a jury for a drug case, and the prosecution declined having the evidence fingerprinted before trial because they thought it was a slam dunk.  Some of my fellow jurors were displeased with this and let the prosecutor know after the trial.  The supposed confession from the defendant was not as convincing as the cops and prosecutors thought.  We did find the defendant guilty because the evidence seized could only have come from a drug dealer** and Ohio law allowed us to make that conclusion.  I want the prosecutors in Josh's case to use everything they can to nail his ass.  

 

**Rather large bag of cocaine, dirty spoon and scale, baggies, and a large wad of cash.  Also in Ohio, the evidence is brought back to the jury room during deliberation.  We did all closely examine the evidence before deliberating.  I refer to this as the time I legally got to hold a big bag of cocaine.

Fingerprints are not really necessary in many instances because many surfaces do not retain fingerprints.  Joints, credit cards with raised lettering, ridged caps on anti-freeze don't allow for finger printing.  In computer forensics, I think I've received 3 exhibits in 17 years that had finger print powder residue on it. 

[Westiepeach]

2 hours ago, lascuba said:

I think Anna will only leave the warehouse if JB decides to rent it out to someone else, and even then I'd be surprised if she moved into the TTH.

I'm probably giving these people way too much credit, but I don't think the accountability thing would be an issue here. She's raising 7 children while financially dependent on her in laws. As long as she's going to church and doing churchy things, I doubt anyone would worry about her needing a chaperone.

Not so sure about that. These people are big on chaperones, or accountability partners. I remember something about Jilly Muffin's wedding when she and Derick were walking around before their wedding (because they could not bear to spend even one minute apart from each other on their wedding day) and they were going to see Derick's mother in another room at the church. They had to walk down a hallway out of sight from anyone and JimBoob just about had an aneurysm because they needed a chaperone for those 3.5 seconds they were out of view.

[quarks]

Buried in a minor motion/subpoena for a witness, Robert Franklin (I have no idea who this is), the government has given us a probable timeline for their part of the trial. They are expecting to begin on November 30th, at 9 am, and end on December 3, 2021. 

Incidentally, this is at least the second witness/possible witness who has been or is currently in jail, increasing my personal belief that this was one sketchy car lot. 

I don't know how many days the defense will need, or how long the jury will have to deliberate, but it does sound as if the case will have a verdict before Christmas. 

[crazy8s]

certainly Kynzie and Michael are old enough to be considered chaperones/accountability. It seems JB said right out he took a child with him everywhere as accountability and the howlers were certainly sent as chaperones for courting couples on the show.. Anna doesn't own a car, lives in the duggar warehouse, probably spends most of her days at the TTH. She is probably well chaperoned all the freaking time.  Currently she is probably spends time at the Reber house but if/when Josh goes to jail she will go back to her normal days at the TTH where Hannie, Jenny and Jordyn are there to wrangle kids

[GeeGolly]

I wonder if anyone is being real with Anna. Like, has anyone told her there is a good possibility Josh will go to jail, so she needs a plan? She has 7 kids to physically and emotionally care for. The oldest two, well oldest four really, are going to need some type of explanation of why daddy is leaving the Rebers and won't be around for a while. They don't need Anna scrambling on next steps while she's falling apart when reality hits.

[lascuba]

2 hours ago, Westiepeach said:

Not so sure about that. These people are big on chaperones, or accountability partners. I remember something about Jilly Muffin's wedding when she and Derick were walking around before their wedding (because they could not bear to spend even one minute apart from each other on their wedding day) and they were going to see Derick's mother in another room at the church. They had to walk down a hallway out of sight from anyone and JimBoob just about had an aneurysm because they needed a chaperone for those 3.5 seconds they were out of view.

For some reason I thought accountability partners weren't considered necessary for married women. If that's not the case, and Ana's oldest two kids don't count as chaperones, then, yeah, she's either moving into the TTH or spending so much of her days there as to make no difference.

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, quarks said:

 

Incidentally, this is at least the second witness/possible witness who has been or is currently in jail, increasing my personal belief that this was one sketchy car lot. 

 

We can add this to the recent testimony of Jed and Katie about Jed!"s car lot -- Didn't they say they drove to the pee test after carefully choosing one of the few cars they were sure would start up again after it had been shut off? 

Makes me think JB's real beef with his father and the fraud charge is not that the old man committed  used-car-sale fraud but just that he got caught at it.  

Edited November 12, 2021 by Churchhoney

[crazy8s]

3 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

We can add this to the recent testimony of Jed and Katie about Jed!"s car lot -- Didn't they say they drove to the pee test after carefully choosing one of the few cars they were sure would start up again after it had been shut off? 

Makes me think JB's real beef with his father and the fraud charge is not that the old man committed  used-car-sale fraud but just that he got caught at it.  

I think the van the were driving is the junker Jed actually owns. He has paid personal property taxes on an old junker van for a few years. I think Katey made a joke on that along the lines of "it's not like we own a car lot or anything"  and actually they do not "own a car lot" the Llc is registered under Duggar acct Jimmy Burns and the owner/incorporator is JB. Jed is listed as "manager"

[GeeGolly]

35 minutes ago, lascuba said:

For some reason I thought accountability partners weren't considered necessary for married women. If that's not the case, and Ana's oldest two kids don't count as chaperones, then, yeah, she's either moving into the TTH or spending so much of her days there as to make no difference.

Even though the warehouse is on the Duggar property, I don't think you can see it from the TTH. Conceivably, Anna could have gentlemen callers in the evening after the kids are in bed.

But the Duggars change the rules often, although I'm sure if they checked, Gothard likely has a rule about what the wife should do when the husband is in jail. 🙃

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I wonder if anyone is being real with Anna. Like, has anyone told her there is a good possibility Josh will go to jail, so she needs a plan? She has 7 kids to physically and emotionally care for. The oldest two, well oldest four really, are going to need some type of explanation of why daddy is leaving the Rebers and won't be around for a while. They don't need Anna scrambling on next steps while she's falling apart when reality hits.

I wonder who, if anyone, might do this in that crowd. ....Seems likely to me that only JB, Meechelle, and Josh are actually closely involved in and thinking about this mess much at all. I get the feeling the others may all just be staying as far away from it and thinking as little about it as possible.........

So that would mean that only Josh, JB and Meeechelle might be candidates for talking realistically to Anna.....

And I'm sure Josh isn't. Nothing realistic or practical is ever in his wheelhouse, I don't think, and certainly not now, when it'd involve being truthful about his own life. 

I envision Meechelle being so agitated herself -- and so unused to saying much except platitudes in baby talk -- that it seems unlikely to me that she'd want to tackle these difficult and very practical, plain-language matters.......

And I wonder how often JB ever has truly realistic conversations with the next generation. Seems to me he may be committed to playing everything so close to the vest that he just doesn't talk that way. 

I'd hope her parents were helping her....but they're the ones who got her into this in the first place. Can't say their record for helpfulness and truthfulness is very good either. 

Hope this is just my negative views of the Duggars talking and not the way it really is. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Churchhoney

[3 is enough]

Tick tock, tick tock.  18 days until the trial begins.  Wonder how much of a damper that will put on Thanksgiving?

[Zella]

3 hours ago, quarks said:

Buried in a minor motion/subpoena for a witness, Robert Franklin (I have no idea who this is), the government has given us a probable timeline for their part of the trial. They are expecting to begin on November 30th, at 9 am, and end on December 3, 2021. 

I've learned to take the Reddit sleuthers with a grain of salt, but they seem to be onto something here. Per the Duggar Snark subreddit, someone with that name was booked into the Fayetteville jail 3 days before Josh, and he's been there ever since. He has some pretty unpleasant charges himself, but speculation is he and Josh shared a cell at some point before Josh was released and that Josh may have told him something incriminating about himself. 

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Zella

[JustRosie]

I’m still amazed that Josh/JB are taking this to trial. They must have supreme confidence that the jury will see things his way. I have been wondering just how blunt and frank Josh’s lawyers have been regarding the chances of winning in court. Can’t  wait to see how this plays out! 

 

[SMama]

31 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Tick tock, tick tock.  18 days until the trial begins.  Wonder how much of a damper that will put on Thanksgiving?

It will put a damper on the Reber’s Thanksgiving, hope there are no minors that usually visit them. JB will stuff his donkey pie hole without a care in the world. He will have most of his kids and grandkids and they will film the spectacle.

[farmgal4]

12 minutes ago, Namaste said:

I’m still amazed that Josh/JB are taking this to trial. They must have supreme confidence that the jury will see things his way. I have been wondering just how blunt and frank Josh’s lawyers have been regarding the chances of winning in court. Can’t  wait to see how this plays out! 

 

Is that video snippet ⬆️ from a TV show and if so, which one?

[JustRosie]

Just now, farmgal4 said:

Is that video snippet ⬆️ from a TV show and if so, which one?

It’s just a gif. Not sure if it’s from an actual show. Sorry. 

[quarks]

59 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

We can add this to the recent testimony of Jed and Katie about Jed!"s car lot -- Didn't they say they drove to the pee test after carefully choosing one of the few cars they were sure would start up again after it had been shut off? 

Makes me think JB's real beef with his father and the fraud charge is not that the old man committed  used-car-sale fraud but just that he got caught at it.  

They said they had to leave the van running in the Walmart car lot because they weren't sure if they could get it started again if they shut it off. And then they made some jokes about owning a used car lot. And all I could think was, well, so much for trying to convince any potential customers watching this video that the used cars you sell are even remotely reliable.

 

25 minutes ago, Zella said:

I've learned to take the Reddit sleuthers with a grain of salt, but they seem to be onto something here. Per the Duggar Snark subreddit, someone with that name was booked into the Fayetteville jail 3 days before Josh, and he's been there ever since. He has some pretty unpleasant charges himself, but speculation is he and Josh shared a cell at some point before Josh was released and that Josh may have told him something incriminating about himself. 

 

This is me feeling shocked, shocked, shocked that someone who made incriminating statements to law enforcement officers could possibly have made incriminating statements to a fellow inmate. Shocked, shocked.

But even if that turns out to be true and this particular person has nothing to do with the car lot, I'm still sticking with my theory that this was one sketchy car lot.

[dargosmydaddy]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Didn't they say they drove to the pee test after carefully choosing one of the few cars they were sure would start up again after it had been shut off? 

Actually, they joked (or not?) about leaving the car running in the parking lot because they weren't sure it would start again if they turned it off.

(ETA posted at the same time as quarks)

Edited November 13, 2021 by dargosmydaddy

[Zella]

8 minutes ago, quarks said:

But even if that turns out to be true and this particular person has nothing to do with the car lot, I'm still sticking with my theory that this was one sketchy car lot.

Oh for sure!

[Quilt Fairy]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I wonder if anyone is being real with Anna. Like, has anyone told her there is a good possibility Josh will go to jail, so she needs a plan? She has 7 kids to physically and emotionally care for. The oldest two, well oldest four really, are going to need some type of explanation of why daddy is leaving the Rebers and won't be around for a while. They don't need Anna scrambling on next steps while she's falling apart when reality hits.

What kind of plan would Anna need?  Realistically, what is going to change for her and her kids?  Josh hasn't been living at home for 6 months now, so presumably she's given the kids some reason for that.  If Josh goes to prison, presumably she's thought of some G-rated way to explain why Daddy's going to be gone for a lot longer than we thought.  She already lives on the compound, so whether JB allows her to stay in the warehouse (warehome?) or move into the TTH seems a moot point.  JB will provide for her.  Let's be serious, there will not be any talk of divorce.  Josh has presumably never helped emotionally or physically with the kids, so she'll continue to get assistance from various Lost Girls, whether Duggar spawn or some other ATI family. 

I guess I just don't see Anna being in such a dreamworld, so divorced from reality that someone has to sit down and get "real" with her.   But maybe I'm the one in a dreamworld. 

[Westiepeach]

2 hours ago, lascuba said:

For some reason I thought accountability partners weren't considered necessary for married women. If that's not the case, and Ana's oldest two kids don't count as chaperones, then, yeah, she's either moving into the TTH or spending so much of her days there as to make no difference.

Isn’t there some nonsense about women must be under the “umbrella” of men? That they can’t be alone or something? Isn’t that why she and her M-kids had to move into the TTH when her headship went to Jesus Jail?

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

What kind of plan would Anna need?  Realistically, what is going to change for her and her kids?  Josh hasn't been living at home for 6 months now, so presumably she's given the kids some reason for that.  If Josh goes to prison, presumably she's thought of some G-rated way to explain why Daddy's going to be gone for a lot longer than we thought.  She already lives on the compound, so whether JB allows her to stay in the warehouse (warehome?) or move into the TTH seems a moot point.  JB will provide for her.  Let's be serious, there will not be any talk of divorce.  Josh has presumably never helped emotionally or physically with the kids, so she'll continue to get assistance from various Lost Girls, whether Duggar spawn or some other ATI family. 

I guess I just don't see Anna being in such a dreamworld, so divorced from reality that someone has to sit down and get "real" with her.   But maybe I'm the one in a dreamworld. 

I'm guessing the kids see their dad regularly, which will change if Josh goes to jail. I'm assuming they're still in the warehouse, until at least the court case is over and Josh either comes home (haha) or goes to jail.

I also think right now, Anna can't believe anything but Josh is coming home, because believing the truth is too hard. So I do think him being found guilty is going to catch her unaware. I would also think preparing yourself (and kids) emotionally and logistically takes some thought, time and input from those you depend on. He won't be leaving for a 6 month stint, he'll be gone for probably 5 years. 

Maybe I'm wrong and they have all their ducks in a row and Anna is all set, but the Duggars' history leads me to believe they haven't thought about it at all.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Maybe I'm wrong and they have all their ducks in a row

Yes, as a born organizer who enjoys seeing kindred spirit organizers, none of these people have ever struck me as having their ducks in a row. And based on the shell-shocked reactions some of the spouses have admitted to having about Duggar time and the fact that the family seems to have mistaken Jessa's assertiveness for organizational ability, I think it's a systematic, family-wide issue. As to paraphrase an insult once lobbed at Ma Barker, they don't seem able to plan breakfast, let alone anything more substantial. 

[BigBingerBro]

I think that if Sex Pest goes to prison, Anna and the M kids will either remain at the TTH Annex, move into the TTH proper or JB may move them into one of the Duggar Kingdom flip houses. (until it's sold)

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

What kind of plan would Anna need?  Realistically, what is going to change for her and her kids?  Josh hasn't been living at home for 6 months now, so presumably she's given the kids some reason for that.  If Josh goes to prison, presumably she's thought of some G-rated way to explain why Daddy's going to be gone for a lot longer than we thought.  She already lives on the compound, so whether JB allows her to stay in the warehouse (warehome?) or move into the TTH seems a moot point.  JB will provide for her.  Let's be serious, there will not be any talk of divorce.  Josh has presumably never helped emotionally or physically with the kids, so she'll continue to get assistance from various Lost Girls, whether Duggar spawn or some other ATI family. 

I guess I just don't see Anna being in such a dreamworld, so divorced from reality that someone has to sit down and get "real" with her.   But maybe I'm the one in a dreamworld. 

I can't decide whether I think think Anna's got any kind of realistic view of all this or not. On one hand, it seems impossible that she doesn't. ....

But on the other, she's a person who I think seems to have once bought completely into the Gothardy idea that since she spent her childhood and youth trying to be super-good, and didn't behave like those brazen unChristian girls who date and chase a bunch of boys, her godly parents and Josh's godly parents and God himself all got together and gave her the prince of her dreams, Josh.....And I don't know how long or how much she's clung to that vision of her life, but I think she once invested in it very heavily -- and we still see her touted as Gothardy role model for young women and teen girls -- so she must at least be talking some of that game still....

So if you bought into that vision wholeheartedly once and tried to keep it up for quite a while -- what do you do if you're forced to look at and accept the absolute horror of what Josh went way out of his way to look at for pleasure, and the reality that if law enforcement hadn't stopped it he'd almost certainly still be doing it, and that this family of seven kids that you've followed all the rules to create may now be without its father -- the most important person in the family, according to all this stuff she's bought all these years.... 

She still talks the fundie/Gothard game and teaches it to her kids and role models it to Gothard teen girls.....but how does she does she reconcile the fact that four highly respected adults in that world and God himself all told her as an innocent young girl that Josh was her prince and her umbrella of protection for life, the umbrella of protection for the many babies she was supposed to have.....

How would you reconcile all that stuff if you'd bought it for so long? Could you still hold those four parents in esteem? And what about God? Was he showing bad judgment in choosing Josh as the reward for a young girl who'd been obeying all the crazy Gothard laws? 

It seems to me so likely that there's a lot of stuff in her head that has to be really hard to reconcile with the full truth here. So what do you do when you face so many painful contradictions? It just seems to me that most of us would really struggle with denial and deep confusion and intense emotions -- and then trying to communicate things accurately and usefully to all those little kids......

It's true she's already had to explain some things to them about his absence -- but that'll be nothing to explain and cope with compared to what they'll all face if he gets convicted and goes away to another state for years......

I don't know enough about her to even have an opinion about her balance of realism and delusion at this points. Perfectly possible that she's completely realistic and has been for years so it's no biggie and she'll cope with it easily....But complete denial also seems possible to me....

Edited November 13, 2021 by Churchhoney

[beckie]

Is Anna even with the kids? Last we heard she was staying with Josh at the Rebers, without the kids (except for the baby who has surely been born by now.)

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by beckie

[CandyCaneTree]

Anna when you are sitting around the Thanksgiving table are you thankful that you at least you have a husband? 

[Cinnabon]

What church do Josh and Anna attend?

[JoanArc]

Edited November 13, 2021 by JoanArc

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

What church do Josh and Anna attend?

The Church of the Devil's Fortress? 😈⛪

[Absolom]

Where can Josh go to church if he can't be around other peoples' children?

[Westiepeach]

24 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Where can Josh go to church if he can't be around other peoples' children?

Somehow I doubt church is an important part of his life.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Westiepeach

[BigBingerBro]

Don't the Duggars at the TTH conduct their own in-home church services with Boob being the leader?   I thought they occasionally allowed outside guests.