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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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Lemur

Lemur

8 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I think, in their naive way, they believe that marriage cures everything: Smuggley's midnight maraudering, porn addiction, "the gay".  All they did was they facilitated  the facade of respectability by providing the only acceptable "out" in Fundieland -- marriage.  Sort of like back in the day, convents and monasteries often became repositories for prominent families to hide scandal, their mentally ill, and homosexuals. Finding some vocation or purpose with The Church was always seen as 'respectable".

"But if they cannot control themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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Marigold

Marigold

Yes, very old school thinking that we don't see too much anymore.  Marriage cures everything!  Jim Bob is living in another century and really believed that Josh's little problem would be all better with Anna, who would be a good wife. 

No one thought about poor Anna stuck with this freak. Or what if marriage didn't fix Josh? 

Very sad all around for so many people involved. 

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CarolMK

CarolMK

Since they are all so young, I really hope that Josh and Anna's kids don't find out all that stuff about their dad until they reach adulthood, if ever. Since the Duggars don't let their kids on social media and they homeschool, chances are they never will find out. The show will likely be off the air in a couple of years.

I don't think Josh and Anna are living with the Duggars either. Jana said on the most recent Counting On episode that Anna was visiting and didn't live too far away. They probably moved when he came back from the rehab camp last spring.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

I agree that its sad that these kids have Joshes effed-uppedness hanging over their heads. I believe they will find out. The adult Duggars do use the internet, as do the Bates. Something so innocent as typing in their own name will bring up pages and pages of negative articles on their dad and family. I hope their parents tell them even a skewed story of what happened so at least they're not totally shocked.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree that its sad that these kids have Joshes effed-uppedness hanging over their heads. I believe they will find out. The adult Duggars do use the internet, as do the Bates. Something so innocent as typing in their own name will bring up pages and pages of negative articles on their dad and family. I hope their parents tell them even a skewed story of what happened so at least they're not totally shocked.

Plus, they'll be dragged to numerous Gothardy and other cult-y events with the likeminded over the years. And the kids of the likeminded will tell them. Cruelly, for the most part. Because there are kids who'll do that in every group of kids that ever existed.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

8 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

They will tell the kids it is all lies and people who were jealous made up those stories about them because we were on tv and they weren't. 

And though the first generation of Duggar offspring would have bought that hook, line and sinker, I have a feeling that enough doubt may have crept in for the M kids that they won't believe it. Seems to me they'll feel the shakiness of their parents and that at least Josh and maybe even Anna won't quite have the heart and the lunacy to brainwash as effectively as JB and M have done.

The cults tend to weaken their grip in further generations, right? I'm sorry that the mean kids will give the M kids pain. But regardless of that, I think that the truth is the only thing that can set them free.

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riverblue22

riverblue22

50 minutes ago, sheshark said:

"We don't allow the children to sit on the boy's laps" Michelle???

But...that was when there were more J'slaves to mother the littles.  Now that Jill, Jess, and Jinger are busy elsewhere, someone has to watch the babies while Michelle tends to her own important business.

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laurakaye

laurakaye

(edited)

What in tarnation is that colossal mess behind them?  It does look like they're in an RV...and they get Olive Garden take-out when they go camping?  WTH?  I don't know how many mouths they're feeding, but that's some pricey take-out.

That type of mess in a small space would drive me completely bonkers.  I'd never be able to go road-tripping with this family.

2 hours ago, sheshark said:

"We don't allow the children to sit on the boy's laps" Michelle???

HOLD. UP.  Did she really say this?  Is this a Duggar rule?  Designed to what...make young boys feel like they will do something wrong if a baby sits on their lap?  Or make them think that because they are boys, they are inherently dangerous in some way?  What the crap kind of message is this to give her sons??  So what are they supposed to think when they have children of their own? 

I can't even.....wow.

Edited by laurakaye
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farmgal4

farmgal4

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

What in tarnation is that colossal mess behind them?  It does look like they're in an RV...and they get Olive Garden take-out when they go camping?  WTH?  I don't know how many mouths they're feeding, but that's some pricey take-out.

That type of mess in a small space would drive me completely bonkers.  I'd never be able to go road-tripping with this family.

HOLD. UP.  Did she really say this?  Is this a Duggar rule?  Designed to what...make young boys feel like they will do something wrong if a baby sits on their lap?  Or make them think that because they are boys, they are inherently dangerous in some way?  What the crap kind of message is this to give her sons??  So what are they supposed to think when they have children of their own? 

I can't even.....wow.

Yes, she really said that, to Megan Kelly, if I'm not mistaken.  Olive Garden has the buy one/take one special going now, so they actually paid 2 for 1, which would come to around $7 or $8/person.

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

I cannot imagine telling my young son that he could not hold his baby sister.  This makes my blood boil.

Those two clowns have irreparably damaged all of their children.

I agree, and what makes my blood boil twice as hot is MEchelle being honored as Mother of the Year, more than once.  There are no words...

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laurakaye

laurakaye

24 minutes ago, Aja said:

I think not letting the littles sit in the boys' laps was something Michelle implemented or said she implemented as one of their super-effective, Jesusy ways to deal with Josh's "little mistakes."

So she punished all her boys for the sins of one.  Excellent parenting.  Those boys must have some serious, simmering rage towards their vaunted oldest brother.  I suppose for Michelle, it's just easier to condemn all of them in one fell swoop...since they're all boys, they must all think alike and act alike.  She's horrible.

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

(edited)
3 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

But...that was when there were more J'slaves to mother the littles.  Now that Jill, Jess, and Jinger are busy elsewhere, someone has to watch the babies while Michelle tends to her own important business.

Yeah, you can see the crunchy Mullet in the background of the picture. I wonder if the wedding is actually going to be in Texas, and this is part of the family caravan down there? As I noted in another thread, JinJer were spotted on the San Antonio Riverwalk a couple of days ago (maybe Tuesday?) with Pa Vuolo and KJB. Hannie's "birthday party" could have been celebrated anywhere with a nail salon and ice cream parlor. 

eta: Another possibility is that they attended the IBLP Family Camp this week that Davey Waller has been pimping out on his social media. I'm not sure what the exact dates were on that, but they usually wrap those things up on Thursdays, but this wasn't the "official" homeschool camp that they attend every year in Big Sandy, This was not quite as elaborate and might not have lasted as long and you might not have to attend every day? No clue how this camp works, since it's the first time they've held it. 

As I said in the show thread, the Duggars were in the Stink Bus campaigning as late as the Thursday before Jessa's wedding, so we can still see a wedding on Saturday, even if they were in Big Sandy through yesterday. It looks like Jinger was elsewhere, at least earlier in the week. 

I find it sad that Smuganna have to tag along with his parents to go to these events. I'm sure Smuggar had to sell his RV after Joshgate, but he's almost 30 years old. Shouldn't he be traveling with his own little family to these events? After all, as Mechelle reminded us in the Smuganna wedding special, "Leave and cleave, baby!" Well, we all know how well THAT turned out! 

Edited by Sew Sumi
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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

(edited)

I know there was a picture/discussion a while ago, but I think that picture was taken at the TTH. I'm assuming this is a newer picture; Mere looks about the right age, but it could be a picture from maybe late summer? I have no clue what the weather was like in AR or TX this past week (but when have Duggars ever dressed appropriately for the weather?). 

eta: The Mere pic is not new, maybe from the summer. I forgot that Mechelle was in AR earlier this week when Joe took her out to "Take Your Parents Out To Lunch Day" at the Marketplace Grille. They stupidly didn't realize that this is a program aimed at elementary school kids to invite their parents to the school to see what cafeteria food is like these days. 

That said, we know that OTHER members of the family WERE in TX earlier this week. 

Edited by Sew Sumi
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

HOLD. UP.  Did she really say this?  Is this a Duggar rule?  Designed to what...make young boys feel like they will do something wrong if a baby sits on their lap?  Or make them think that because they are boys, they are inherently dangerous in some way?  What the crap kind of message is this to give her sons??  So what are they supposed to think when they have children of their own? 

I can't even.....wow.

 

This is how they "protected" the family after the Josh incidents. Also, no games of hide and seek. They're both stupid and rotten. But they're Jesus's favorite people. Just so you know.

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

So she punished all her boys for the sins of one.  Excellent parenting.  Those boys must have some serious, simmering rage towards their vaunted oldest brother.  I suppose for Michelle, it's just easier to condemn all of them in one fell swoop...since they're all boys, they must all think alike and act alike.  She's horrible.

Oh, no. Hadn't you heard? (cause they keep telling you) Nobody in this family has any leftover feelings or issues from that long-running mess. They're a sweet, fun, playful, wholesome, romantic, very very happy TeeVee family.  Thanks to JB and M!

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SMama

SMama

(edited)

I'm going to come across as mean but I'm with GeeGolly. 

Not that GG is mean, only talking about myself. In a perfect world Anna and the kids would live in a McMansion and her repugnant husband in a 10 foot RV. Said RV would not have a toilet, and Boob would have it under camera surveillance 24/7.

Oh man, I AM mean.

Edited by SMama
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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Maybe when Jana said Anna lives nearby she meant deep in the woods of the TTH land, in an RV.

I still think they're in the guest house on the property. Those little are there far too often for the 30ish mile round trip from the house they bought in Sialom Springs every day. I have a feeling Anna and Tabitha are tag-team teaching these days. It's easier than two separate groups of kids all doing the Wisdom Booklets. If Anna was teaching Mack and Mike separately, her kids wouldn't constantly be shown with the Lost Girls. But if Anna was earning her keep, so to speak, by teaching, you'd see her little with various aunts and uncles as they "babysit." And that's what their social media shows us.

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Almost 3000

Almost 3000

16 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I still think they're in the guest house on the property. Those little are there far too often for the 30ish mile round trip from the house they bought in Sialom Springs every day. I have a feeling Anna and Tabitha are tag-team teaching these days. It's easier than two separate groups of kids all doing the Wisdom Booklets. If Anna was teaching Mack and Mike separately, her kids wouldn't constantly be shown with the Lost Girls. But if Anna was earning her keep, so to speak, by teaching, you'd see her little with various aunts and uncles as they "babysit." And that's what their social media shows us.

This is what I've always thought but for no other reason than it makes sense. (Not that sense is a Duggar thing)

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

18 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

There's lots of speculation that Anna is preggers. I think that Smuggley Do Right's behavior has killed that for her.  Every other word out of her mouth was "babies" when they were happy...until he broke her.

And this makes me wonder for them what is a true belief and what isn't. If they truly believe that only God decides how many babies, than what choice to they really have? 

This is why organized religion confuses me.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
38 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

And this makes me wonder for them what is a true belief and what isn't. If they truly believe that only God decides how many babies, than what choice to they really have? 

This is why organized religion confuses me.

Well, this kind of situation is where organized religion's rubber really hits the road, isn't it?

I expect that at least one of the Smugs has now abandoned that level of belief in their particular organized religion. But he's also an incompetent lazy coward who appears unlikely to be able to -- or, probably, even try to -- support even the relatively hefty-sized family he's already got without taking jobs from JB for the rest of JB's life. But I suppose doing that will require that Joshley at least pay lip service to his stupid "God will set the size of our family" vow. (I suppose. It's also possible that even JIzm Bob doesn't want to see any more children emerging from the Joshley union, in which case Joshley would be off the hook.) 

I expect it boils down to who Joshley can convince to go along with a plan to stop having kids or at least not have very many more. If Anna is on board, then they can just do that. Or he could go get himself snipped and not tell her, if he's got the guts to sneak around for something other than girlfriend-seeking.

I think that in some ways this is a pretty normal situation for people like Josh and Anna, who've grown up in these supposedly super-devout families. Seeing how some of the "teachings" clash with real life, people do stop "believing" in those teachings (although not necessarily in the faith generally, and whatever "believing in them" ever meant in the first place). But that's only the first step, and it's the easy one. I'd almost say it's the unavoidable step, when it comes to these really out-there beliefs like this one about having kids by the dozen.

Then they have to figure out how to act on their changed idea. And that takes gutsy moves of various kinds and almost certainly requires some kind of confrontations -- talk to Anna and see whether she feels the same way, potentially face Jizm Bob's wrath if he actually thinks you should go on pumping out the kids, etc. That's where the "religious beliefs" (or unbeliefs) get sticky for everybody. But particularly for a lazy coward like Josh, I would think. He continues to be up shit creek without a paddle. And considering how high he was riding a couple of years ago, that must still be quite a shock to him.

Edited by Churchhoney
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Absolom

Absolom

This is why I both love and hate the cafeteria labels.  When you get down to it everyone treats "the rules" like a buffet.  Jim Bob certainly doesn't even follow the rules that he espouses himself.  They aren't necessarily truly following quiverful because they actively sought to have as many kids as possible.  Josh has shown that he only follows what he wants and is quite capable of plenty of hypocrisy.  I expect Jim Bob might be a lot less confrontational over the number of future pregnancies if Josh will simply not have any more affairs that get caught out publicly and not be seen buying Penthouse. 

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lascuba

lascuba

I think at this point in Josh's "recovery" (not enough scare quotes in the world), any  mention of not following the rules will lead to Anna tattling to their certified fundie counselor and/or JB. If Josh even hints that he doesn't want to have an indefinite number of children, he'll be sent to "rehab" again and put under even greater financial blackmail. I think Anna is as baby obsessed as ever...she stopped expressing it so much publicly before the scandals as a result of the criticism she got over it.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

4 hours ago, lascuba said:

I think at this point in Josh's "recovery" (not enough scare quotes in the world), any  mention of not following the rules will lead to Anna tattling to their certified fundie counselor and/or JB. If Josh even hints that he doesn't want to have an indefinite number of children, he'll be sent to "rehab" again and put under even greater financial blackmail. I think Anna is as baby obsessed as ever...she stopped expressing it so much publicly before the scandals as a result of the criticism she got over it.

I think you're probably right. But it's pretty horrifying, isn't it, that she'd want to pop out babies right now with a guy she can't possibly know if she can trust at this point and into a situation where nobody can really get a decent job? It's an obsession that's about on a par with heroin addiction when it comes to being utterly unaccountable and potentially life destroying, to me.

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lascuba

lascuba

6 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I think you're probably right. But it's pretty horrifying, isn't it, that she'd want to pop out babies right now with a guy she can't possibly know if she can trust at this point and into a situation where nobody can really get a decent job? It's an obsession that's about on a par with heroin addiction when it comes to being utterly unaccountable and potentially life destroying, to me.

It's absolutely horrifying, and I have a hard time understanding the mindset of people like this. And while fundamentalism is the cause in her specific case, I can't even blame it generally. I know too many women of many walks of life who think nothing of having babies with untrustworthy men, who see it as a good sign for their relationships. 

4 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

That poor child's nose is so unfortunate. (I'm trying to be nice) I'm praying to baby Jeebus that she somehow outgrows it.

She looks exactly like Priscilla so I keep imaging the squinty eyes and wrinkled forehead and...err...simple affect on her and it makes me cringe. 

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

6 hours ago, MischaMouse said:

Nose, mouth, chin. She looks like a cartoon elf. Let me go back and check her ears. 

Since elves are magical creatures, wouldn't Meri being an elf be problematic? Makes me wonder if Keebler cookies are banned in Duggardom since Gothard probably wrote that witchcraft was afoot in their making. No fudge stripes for you!

Of course, this is sheer speculation, but nothing these pinheads believe would surprise me at all.  He taught that Cabbage Patch Kids were the spawn of the devil.  He wouldn't have been the only one to be of the opinion that they're creepy, but to promulgate the nonsense that they were evil--I don't know who was crazier...him for saying it or his followers for taking it as an article of faith.

On another note, I just hope Mer doesn't end up being as simple as poor Prissy, but if the poor kid stays on the compound, there's no telling...particularly if Joy gets stuck being the teacher.

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