Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Sew Sumi]

For the DC metro area, that's a steal! Or in my neck of the woods (SF Bay Area), a 2 bedroom apartment. 

Edited June 11, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Lemur]

Why do the words "bidet" and "Josh" make me think of that scene from Crocodile Dundee thinking its a boot washer? Maybe I'm not giving Josh enough credit here. He did travel to Europe on TLC's dime.

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, that was soooo educational. He saw the castle where King James wrote the Bible. 

 

(thanks JB! That one never gets old!)

[Muffyn]

The house Josh and Anna just vacated in Maryland is now up on Zillow as an available rental.  http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/249-Panorama-Dr-Oxon-Hill-MD-20745/37457042_zpid/  In their quick retreat, they left behind their fireplace tools.

 

$2,650 if you're interested and want to use the same bidet as Josh.

Suddenly I see a new Clorox cleaner with bleach commercial.  They've been focusing on small children using things like bathtubs as toilets.  I think a bidet or any surface touched by Josh would be the nastiest thing they could dream up.  Pass the bleach!  

[CofCinci]

Suddenly I see a new Clorox cleaner with bleach commercial.  They've been focusing on small children using things like bathtubs as toilets.  I think a bidet or any surface touched by Josh would be the nastiest thing they could dream up.  Pass the bleach!  

Guess we won't be getting you in that hot tub either?

[Tunia]

In one of the many articles linked in this thread (and I'll be darned if I can find it now), it said Josh and Anna were paying a $3,500/mo. rental for the MD house. Wonder why it's so much lower now...

[jschoolgirl]

Anna probably can't/doesn't trust Josh at this point, but rather than divorce (which would probably be very difficult, if not impossible, for her to initiate), she'll probably just shut down and go through the motions. I could see a lot of resentment and distance forming between them, which might also lead to Josh acting out sexually in yet more fun and exciting ways such as porn addiction or adultery. Maybe at that point, though, Anna could finally justify leaving him.

Divorce is out of the question for Gothard adherents. Period.

When people do manage to divorce in that cult, typically because a non-Gothardite spouse initiates it, there is NO remarriage. Was your former spouse incarcerated, mentally ill, addicted? No remarriage. Were you beaten or abandoned? Did they cheat on you? No remarriage.

They intervene to stop second or subsequent marriages before they can happen and convince the couple to call off the wedding. I know someone who was intervened on the night before the wedding. They cancelled -- at the wedding itself.

Anna is stuck with him.

[JoanArc]

 

Divorce is out of the question for Gothard adherents. Period.

Divorce cuts through all religious, racial, ethnic, cultural, age, social, etc barrier. ALL of them. Is there a lower probability for for J&A, maybe. Hell, right wing baptists from the south, fundie or not, who marry young, still have impressive divorce rates.

 

Assuming it could never happen is just as wrong headed as following wisdom books to set up the perfect life. This is the firs ttime something's happened to Josh and Anna trite pieces of advice can't fix.

 

And anecdotally, I've heard plenty of people say the would never get a divorce, then turn on a dime.

[SopranoKris]

Divorce is out of the question for Gothard adherents. Period.

When people do manage to divorce in that cult, typically because a non-Gothardite spouse initiates it, there is NO remarriage. Was your former spouse incarcerated, mentally ill, addicted? No remarriage. Were you beaten or abandoned? Did they cheat on you? No remarriage.

They intervene to stop second or subsequent marriages before they can happen and convince the couple to call off the wedding. I know someone who was intervened on the night before the wedding. They cancelled -- at the wedding itself.

Anna is stuck with him.

 

Absolutely true!

 

I grew up fundie and you'd better believe the church does every thing they can to stop second marriages.  I divorced my husband because he was an alcoholic who refused to get help and kept losing his job.  No sympathy from "friends" at church.  Apparently *I* didn't try hard enough.  Ha!  I was pressured over & over again to "make it work" and get back together with my ex.  The straw that broke the camel's back was when, after being divorced/single for 8 years, I re-connected with my old high school sweetheart.  The pastor had the nerve to tell me that he wouldn't "allow" us to get married in the church.  Fine with me...haven't been back to church since.  (oooh....heathen!!!!!!!!!!)

 

Yes, Anna is absolutely stuck.  She does NOT have the fortitude to stand up to the ire of her fundie "friends" and family.  I feel terrible that she's stuck in this situation.  Then again, she apparently "knew" about it while they were courting.  If she really did know, then she's reaping her "rewards", eh?

[jschoolgirl]

Divorce cuts through all religious, racial, ethnic, cultural, age, social, etc barrier. ALL of them. Is there a lower probability for for J&A, maybe. Hell, right wing baptists from the south, fundie or not, who marry young, still have impressive divorce rates.

Assuming it could never happen is just as wrong headed as following wisdom books to set up the perfect life. This is the firs ttime something's happened to Josh and Anna trite pieces of advice can't fix.

And anecdotally, I've heard plenty of people say the would never get a divorce, then turn on a dime.

But were they Gothardites?

ETA: It is really remarriage where they absolutely go to the mat. My (not really former but not current) friend whose wedding got scuttled will not attend weddings of divorced people. She does work that bridal couples, among others, order. She asks if either party has been divorced; if the answer is yes, then she won't do the work. Her story was printed in an IBLP magazine -- for strengthening the faithful.

Hopefully, Anna will find the strength to continue with what appeared to be a happy marriage. There won't be another for her until he dies.

Edited June 11, 2015 by jschoolgirl

[lottiedottie]

You can change your social security number legally. Info is at your local SSA office.

It's really difficult to change your SSN. I looked into it many years ago after my identity was stolen by a family member.

[msblossom]

The house Josh and Anna just vacated in Maryland is now up on Zillow as an available rental.  http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/249-Panorama-Dr-Oxon-Hill-MD-20745/37457042_zpid/  In their quick retreat, they left behind their fireplace tools.

 

$2,650 if you're interested and want to use the same bidet as Josh.

Seeing all those patched nail holes make me think the Duggar girls went to town putting up dozens of framed family photos on several walls a' la Duggar style in lieu of actual wall art and paintings.

[HumblePi]

Clergy are mandated child neglect/abuse reporters in many states. What about Arkansas? Seems a lot was "confessed" in church.

From what I've read about home-church there is no clergy, there are only a few family members that meet. We have very little knowledge of exactly what that means but it's a group of families that meet in a low-profile unassuming place, presumably someone's home or other meeting place. They gather to hear from each other, the church elders (Jim Bob included), and the occasional guest speaker, followed by food and fellowship. I think the use of the word 'church' leads people to believe it's a physical church with ordained clergy, but it's nothing like that.

[Quilt Fairy]

So it's possible for Josh to change his name, sure. However, when it comes to starting over as a completely different person with a new identity, professional and educational credentials, Social Security number, credit background - all that would have to be finessed somehow. I imagine it's possible to hire someone to help with that, but I personally wouldn't know where to begin.

Better call Saul!

[JoanArc]

 

I think the use of the word 'church' leads people to believe it's a physical church with ordained clergy, but it's nothing like that.

I think the same thing about the 'rod'.

[HumblePi]

I think the same thing about the 'rod'.

right, it could be a rubber hose for all we know, like the kind they use in prison riots

[JoanArc]

right, it could be a rubber hose for all we know, like the kind they use in prison riots

I was thinking more 'generalized beating implement'. Probably plumbing line, like the Pearls Suggested.

[Saylii]

It will be easier for Josh to start over then you think it is, especially if the Duggars get dropped like a hot potato in the next few months. Now it will take some hard work and elbow grease. I'm not sure that Josh has the fortitude for that.

He goes to a two- or four- year school to get a degree in political science or history. He could be ambitious and try for a law degree, but I think that's a long shot. Then he quietly begins low-level work at a political consulting firm or for a lobbyist group. He may not even need to work in DC. He won't make 250k/year, but he'll make a decent wage for Anna and the kids.

He doesn't have a criminal record. His reputation is currently shot, but no one will care in four years. Legally, there's no reason why he can't be hired.

[HumblePi]

I was thinking more 'generalized beating implement'. Probably plumbing line, like the Pearls Suggested.

I bet it's not a rod at all. Maybe they desensitized their children to pornographic material and x-rated films through reality distortion and hyper-exposure?

 

[Sew Sumi]

I was thinking more 'generalized beating implement'. Probably plumbing line, like the Pearls Suggested.

I read TTUAC. They do not suggest plumbing line. I'm afraid that's old Free Jinger folklore. They DO suggest a switch, 1/4" in diameter, IIRC. And that's what I'm sure the Duggars employed back in the days before the cameras were there more often than not. 

 

Back on-topic: I agree that THIS is probably the best opportunity that Josh is ever going to have to go to college. We don't know if he paid cash for his house, but even if he didn't, it was cheap, so expenses would be low. He could lay low and work for Boob for a few years while he also gets an education that means something (not Ecclesia College, the one that never took him off of their Board). Summer semester starts next week! :D

Edited June 11, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Loves2Dance]

I read TTUAC. They do not suggest plumbing line. I'm afraid that's old Free Jinger folklore. They DO suggest a switch. And that's what I'm sure the Duggars employed back in the days before the cameras were there more often than not. 

 

Back on-topic: I agree that THIS is probably the best opportunity that Josh is ever going to have to go to college. We don't know if he paid cash for his house, but even if he didn't, it was cheap, so expenses would be low. He could lay low and work for Boob for a few years while he also gets an education that means something (not Ecclesia College, the one that never took him off of their Board). Summer semester starts next week! :D

I don't think Josh has the actual intelligence to get through school. I know that sounds harsh, and I have seen some homeschooling graduates that could put me and my 4.0 to task, but this family is not filled with those kids. I have a strong feeling his entire first semester would be filled with nothing but remedial work that would insult him and he'd walk away. 

[RedheadZombie]

When an organization seeks to take rights and civil liberties away from US citizens based on their interpretation of the bible, it's very much a hate group. Their argument that marriage is between one man and one woman is tantamount to opposition to interracial marriage which was only made legal in 1967. Arguments about interracial marriage were biblically based as are the FRC's lobbying claims about LBGT citizens.

FRC spreads misinformation about LBGT citizens as to sway public opinion the same way that Westboro Baptist Church tries to sway public opinion by protesting funerals with their God awful picketing propaganda.

 

The Southern Poverty Law Center placed the FRC on their "Hate Group List", as of 2010.

[Schmoopy]

Why do the words "bidet" and "Josh" make me think of that scene from Crocodile Dundee thinking its a boot washer? Maybe I'm not giving Josh enough credit here. He did travel to Europe on TLC's dime.

 

I bet the use of a bidet is against the rules....I will just leave it at that!

[TomServo]

I don't let random people into my home, so I can't fault the Duggars for how they handled the DHS worker. If you're legit, you can come back with the cops and them we'll talk.

 

This probably more appropriately belongs in the JimBob and Michelle thread or maybe the media thread, but yeah, it's not a good idea to let random government employees march on in to your house without a warrant, for reasons that I'd have to get into some off-topic personal stories in order to illustrate.

IF it is true that someone from DHS dropped by unannounced, it would not be surprising to me for the Duggars to refuse entry to the house.  I'm guessing they belong to HSLDA and if they do not, even then they are most likely familiar with what HSLDA says to do if someone calls CPS on you and would have been following that script.  HSLDA advises not to let a social worker into your home without a court order because then you have waived your Fourth Amendment protection against search and seizure.  However, they do say that depending on the situation, you should produce the child at the door that the inquiry is being made about so that the social worker can observe that the child is okay.  If you google "HSLDA social worker at your door" then you can pull up copies of the article (HSLDA claims it is a "members-only resource" but I've seen homeschoolers post it on their blogs and other places).

 

 

 

I read TTUAC. They do not suggest plumbing line. I'm afraid that's old Free Jinger folklore. They DO suggest a switch, 1/4" in diameter, IIRC. And that's what I'm sure the Duggars employed back in the days before the cameras were there more often than not.

 

I can't remember whether it was in their book, but the plumbing line is recommended on the Pearls' website.  "The rod we speak of is a plumbing supply line that can be bought at any hardware store or large department store. It is a slim, flexible, plastic tubing that supplies water to sinks, and toilets. Ask for '¼ inch supply line.' They cost less than one dollar. I always give myself one swat before I swat the child to remind myself how much force to exert. It stings the skin without bruising or damaging tissue. It’s a real attention-getter. Michael demonstrates its use in our new Seminar videos."  

Edited June 11, 2015 by TomServo

[Tabbygirl521]

I am just reeling over the plumbing-line recommendation. How kind of them to provide the exact specs of the type to be used.

Why the hell aren't these f*ckers in jail? All these damn fools who call themselves parents. God.

[Loves2Dance]

 

I can't remember whether it was in their book, but the plumbing line is recommended on their website.  "The rod we speak of is a plumbing supply line that can be bought at any hardware store or large department store. It is a slim, flexible, plastic tubing that supplies water to sinks, and toilets. Ask for '¼ inch supply line.' They cost less than one dollar. I always give myself one swat before I swat the child to remind myself how much force to exert. It stings the skin without bruising or damaging tissue. It’s a real attention-getter. Michael demonstrates its use in our new Seminar videos."  

This makes me want to puke. 

[mbutterfly]

At any age, since using the "rod" means guiding your children like a shepherd guides its flock, not beating them.  Or making excuses for them, especially at the expense of your other children.

 

Josh and Anna moving reminds me that I did have hope for them in D.C., living outside the compound and meeting more mainstream conservative Christians.  And I remember noticing when the whole family visited a church that Josh was moving to the music and not standing uncomfortably still.  Anna in Arkansas with Josh, four kids, no money, and the whole world knowing what her husband did is extremely depressing. 

Yes about the rod. And it was also a measuring stick as in one gives one's child a yardstick to help make life's decisions. 

[Darknight]

Absolutely true!

I grew up fundie and you'd better believe the church does every thing they can to stop second marriages. I divorced my husband because he was an alcoholic who refused to get help and kept losing his job. No sympathy from "friends" at church. Apparently *I* didn't try hard enough. Ha! I was pressured over & over again to "make it work" and get back together with my ex. The straw that broke the camel's back was when, after being divorced/single for 8 years, I re-connected with my old high school sweetheart. The pastor had the nerve to tell me that he wouldn't "allow" us to get married in the church. Fine with me...haven't been back to church since. (oooh....heathen!!!!!!!!!!)

Yes, Anna is absolutely stuck. She does NOT have the fortitude to stand up to the ire of her fundie "friends" and family. I feel terrible that she's stuck in this situation. Then again, she apparently "knew" about it while they were courting. If she really did know, then she's reaping her "rewards", eh?

So what about death? Not even if your spouse tries to kill you or beat you until you're black and blue? I know society looks down on divorce but things happen. I would rather two people divorce than to be married and miserable

This probably more appropriately belongs in the JimBob and Michelle thread or maybe the media thread, but yeah, it's not a good idea to let random government employees march on in to your house without a warrant, for reasons that I'd have to get into some off-topic personal stories in order to illustrate.

IF it is true that someone from DHS dropped by unannounced, it would not be surprising to me for the Duggars to refuse entry to the house. I'm guessing they belong to HSLDA and if they do not, even then they are most likely familiar with what HSLDA says to do if someone calls CPS on you and would have been following that script. HSLDA advises not to let a social worker into your home without a court order because then you have waived your Fourth Amendment protection against search and seizure. However, they do say that depending on the situation, you should produce the child at the door that the inquiry is being made about so that the social worker can observe that the child is okay. If you google "HSLDA social worker at your door" then you can pull up copies of the article (HSLDA claims it is a "members-only resource" but I've seen homeschoolers post it on their blogs and other places).

I can't remember whether it was in their book, but the plumbing line is recommended on their website. "The rod we speak of is a plumbing supply line that can be bought at any hardware store or large department store. It is a slim, flexible, plastic tubing that supplies water to sinks, and toilets. Ask for '¼ inch supply line.' They cost less than one dollar. I always give myself one swat before I swat the child to remind myself how much force to exert. It stings the skin without bruising or damaging tissue. It’s a real attention-getter. Michael demonstrates its use in our new Seminar videos."

I wouldn't take advise from hslda. But he is right. You don't have to let them in. But people think if they don't let them in the case will close or nothing will happen. Wrong! Cps still has to investigate.

[GEML]

I'll be honest - I have nothing to hide and am extremely law abiding, but no one comes into my house without a warrant. I take my rights as a citizen very seriously. I don't know what they are looking for, but if they can't produce a piece of paper signed by a judge giving me specifics, we can talk politely outside.

And I am seriously the most law abiding person I can imagine. I just don't see a reason to give up a right because someone says I should.

[anony mouse]

It will be easier for Josh to start over then you think it is, especially if the Duggars get dropped like a hot potato in the next few months. Now it will take some hard work and elbow grease. I'm not sure that Josh has the fortitude for that.

He goes to a two- or four- year school to get a degree in political science or history. He could be ambitious and try for a law degree, but I think that's a long shot. Then he quietly begins low-level work at a political consulting firm or for a lobbyist group. He may not even need to work in DC. He won't make 250k/year, but he'll make a decent wage for Anna and the kids.

He doesn't have a criminal record. His reputation is currently shot, but no one will care in four years. Legally, there's no reason why he can't be hired.

Law school would be difficult - he would have to divulge details of his case both for admission to a law school as well as for permission to sit the bar exam. It's far enough in the past they might let him sit the exam, but that can be a crapshoot.

That said, I think your idea is the best plan for him to get his life back on track. For Anna and the kids, I hope he is able to do something like that.

[Churchhoney]

I read TTUAC. They do not suggest plumbing line. I'm afraid that's old Free Jinger folklore. They DO suggest a switch, 1/4" in diameter, IIRC. And that's what I'm sure the Duggars employed back in the days before the cameras were there more often than not. 

 

Back on-topic: I agree that THIS is probably the best opportunity that Josh is ever going to have to go to college. We don't know if he paid cash for his house, but even if he didn't, it was cheap, so expenses would be low. He could lay low and work for Boob for a few years while he also gets an education that means something (not Ecclesia College, the one that never took him off of their Board). Summer semester starts next week! :D

 

Actually, they do recommend plumbing line in other places, though, just not in the book.   

 

http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/questions-answered/

 

Here, Debbie recommends it in a question-answer section of their blog:

 

' Please give me a description of the switch or rod of which you so often speak. I wish you could send me one so I could see it.

 

'The rod we speak of is a plumbing supply line that can be bought at any hardware store or large department store. It is a slim, flexible, plastic tubing that supplies water to sinks, and toilets. Ask for “¼ inch supply line.” They cost less than one dollar. I always give myself one swat before I swat the child to remind myself how much force to exert. It stings the skin without bruising or damaging tissue. It’s a real attention-getter. Michael demonstrates its use in our new Seminar videos.'

[JenCarroll]

Law school would be difficult - he would have to divulge details of his case both for admission to a law school as well as for permission to sit the bar exam. It's far enough in the past they might let him sit the exam, but that can be a crapshoot.

That said, I think your idea is the best plan for him to get his life back on track. For Anna and the kids, I hope he is able to do something like that.

Do you think so? He's notorious, for sure, but he was never convicted or even arrested -- just investigated. And he was a juvenile when that happened. I'm not sure it would be a problem.

[galax-arena]

Not even if your spouse tries to kill you or beat you until you're black and blue? I know society looks down on divorce but things happen. I would rather two people divorce than to be married and miserable

One of the reasons I "fell away" from the church was because I asked my Bible study leader about whether divorce was permissible in abusive situations, and all she did was hem and haw and say stuff like, "Well, if your life were really in danger, then we'd put you up in a neighbor's home, away from the abusive husband." 

 

Me: "Okay, that's good, but then could I also divorce him? Because he's abusive and I shouldn't have to be connected to him!"

 

Bible study leader: "Er..." 

 

I walked away wondering if I really wanted to be part of a church that wanted battered spouses to stay tied to their abusers. The answer ended up being no.  

 

Considering how much more extreme the Duggars/Kellers are - I was attending a mainstream church at the time - I don't have high hopes for Anna. (Not that Anna is a battered spouse.) 

Edited June 11, 2015 by galax-arena

[Skittl1321]

Law school would be difficult - he would have to divulge details of his case both for admission to a law school as well as for permission to sit the bar exam. It's far enough in the past they might let him sit the exam, but that can be a crapshoot.

 

 

What case?  No charges were ever brought against him.

[anony mouse]

Do you think so? He's notorious, for sure, but he was never convicted or even arrested -- just investigated. And he was a juvenile when that happened. I'm not sure it would be a problem.

All state bars have a "character and fitness" test for applicants to determine whether they are able to sit the bar. You have to divulge things like past or present mental illness, whether you are taking any sort of prescription medications, why you flunked out of that one random class in college, etc. Pertinent to Josh, you have to divulge if you've been investigated and the outcome of that investigation - even if you were a juvenile and it's been sealed. When I sat the bar, I had to try and figure out when I received a traffic ticket some ten years prior and provide a copy, even though it was a fender bender. The process is rigorous and any misrepresentation, even if accidental, is a huge mark against you.

In my state, they would let people with prior convictions, investigations, or mental illness/addiction sometimes sit the bar, but usually after a long period of time - to be considered fit, you had to demonstrate substantive change. Given the allegations against Josh, I have no idea how long a period that would be, but I don't think the "counseling" he had would meet the expectations of addressing the issue. The amount of hoops I had to jump through to show I had addressed a few difficulties I had early on in law school, despite later making the Dean's List, were insane. I can't imagine what they'd expect from Josh.

Edited June 11, 2015 by starving artist

[JenCarroll]

I guess we're in different states. I don't recall the character and fitness review being anything like that.

[lulu69]

JB has plenty of land for a compound to house all his kids as they grow up and marry, and real estate and auto businesses for his sons to pick up and work at so they don't have to go out and be under the "authority" of the wrong kind....

Actually, I distinctly remember JB stating in one of the early TTH building episodes that he purchased the land with the hope that each child would eventually build a house there. It was part of the 'master plan'.

 

JB must be so happy his Joshie is coming home!

[Lemur]

Law school would be difficult - he would have to divulge details of his case both for admission to a law school as well as for permission to sit the bar exam. It's far enough in the past they might let him sit the exam, but that can be a crapshoot.

That said, I think your idea is the best plan for him to get his life back on track. For Anna and the kids, I hope he is able to do something like that.

 

Actually, and I know this as I used to work in the registrar's office of a law school in NYC, you do not.  Most schools require you to divulge any arrests or convictions.  Josh was never arrest.  He was never convicted.  His name alone would throw up some read flags at 90% of the law schools in the country, but for all intents and purposes, unless he has a really, really bad driving record, he could answer NO to both questions with a clean conscience. 

Edited June 11, 2015 by Lemur

[anony mouse]

Actually, I distinctly remember JB stating in one of the early TTH building episodes that he purchased the land with the hope that each child would eventually build a house there. It was part of the 'master plan'.

JB must be so happy his Joshie is coming home!

He did say that, in the building the house special, I think. I think the intent was for all the children to stay, and JB would always remain in charge.

Edited June 11, 2015 by starving artist

[Churchhoney]

He did say tha, in the building the house special, I think. I think the intent was for all the children to stay, and JB would always remain in charge.

 

So basically, if you want to be king, just hatch out enough people to start your own country.

 

I guess that worked for thousands of years.

[ChicksDigScars]

JB must be so happy his Joshie is coming home!

 

I know that we basically assume that Joshie is the Golden Boy, but I have to wonder if this fall from grace has turned him into the family loser. Well, he always HAS been as far as I'm concerned, but in JB and MEE-chelle's eyes. There's really no one else to point to and place blame. Just themselves and Josh.  

 

We KNOW that they could care less that Anna and the grandkids are back in Arkansas. That's one more pregnant woman around to take focus off MEE-chelle and remind her that the CLown Car Uterus is done, and four grandkids that she has zero fucks to give. 

[Lemur]

He did say tha, in the building the house special, I think. I think the intent was for all the children to stay, and JB would always remain in charge.

 

So much for cleave and leave, eh?

 

I can't wait to see how his Gothardite Kingdom devolves into a dystopia.  Or rather I would if these weren't real life people. 

[Churchhoney]

So much for cleave and leave, eh?

 

I can't wait to see how his Gothardite Kingdom devolves into a dystopia.  Or rather I would if these weren't real life people. 

 

They're still giving conference presentations on how they "equip and release" their brood, however. They just don't equip them very well or release them very far, I guess.

[Jellybeans]

Which category would Josh fit into to be allowed to change his social security number? I worked there and I only ever saw one person get a change approved. It was a very strange case. They still keep the original number tied to the person's name, too. Is he suffering enough harassment that he needs a new SSN?

Well, I was offered the chance to change my SS #. It is on a poster in your local SSA office. I have a restraining order against someone who committed a felony DV against me. I declined but anyone who feels their life (Josh could fall into that category) is in danger can file for a new SS#. It really impacts your life though.

It is the person's decision, no one can gauge how much danger one feels they are in.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Jellybeans

[jschoolgirl]

So what about death?

 

 

My friend told me "that's entirely different" -- no problem for the widowed to remarry, unless it's to a divorced person of course!

 

Not even if your spouse tries to kill you or beat you until you're black and blue? I know society looks down on divorce but things happen. I would rather two people divorce than to be married and miserable

 

No. Absolutely frowned upon. Living apart under such circumstances would be OK, but never a divorce and remarriage.

Edited June 11, 2015 by jschoolgirl

[6 MeowMeowBeenz]

Josh and Anna were paying a $3,500/mo. rental for the MD house. Wonder why it's so much lower now...

 

maybe it's like one of those houses where 3 people and a dog were killed in their sleep. 

[TomServo]

Actually, and I know this as I used to work in the registrar's office of a law school in NYC, you do not.  Most schools require you to divulge any arrests or convictions. 

 

Well, sure; the SCHOOL will let you in.  They're happy to take your money.  But sitting for the bar is another matter.  I have acquaintances who had to appeal rulings against them by the Character and Fitness Board for things the rest of us would consider to be minor, like parking or speeding tickets.

[kellylovessnark]

I looked up the house in MD. It's for rent for $2400 per the site I went to. It is available on 6/15.

Edited June 11, 2015 by kellylovessnark

[Lemur]

Well, sure; the SCHOOL will let you in.  They're happy to take your money.  But sitting for the bar is another matter.  I have acquaintances who had to appeal rulings against them by the Character and Fitness Board for things the rest of us would consider to be minor, like parking or speeding tickets.

 

Yes, this is true.  (My Barbri lecture about Character and Fitness is coming back to me in waves).  I think the first red flag would be the Duggar last name, but that may well be entrépot at some schools (eyes Liberty University School of Law suspiciously).

[SopranoKris]

So what about death? Not even if your spouse tries to kill you or beat you until you're black and blue? I know society looks down on divorce but things happen. I would rather two people divorce than to be married and miserable

I wouldn't take advise from hslda. But he is right. You don't have to let them in. But people think if they don't let them in the case will close or nothing will happen. Wrong! Cps still has to investigate.

 

Death is the *only* acceptable means of having a second marriage.  Yes, even the victims of spousal abuse aren't welcomed to re-marry after divorce in the truly fundamental Baptist churches.  It's awful.  They prefer you to be alone for the rest of your life.  There was actually a Sunday school class for the ladies who were single due to divorce and that's what they teach.  Reconcile, reconcile, reconcile.  Forgive them for their "mistakes".  Never mind the "mistakes" are terrbile things. Sound familiar?

 

I just don't see Anna having enough backbone to stand up to this and strike out on her own.  She would literally be 100% alone.  Her family would disown her.  When I first told my parents I was leaving my ex because his drinking was out of control, my mother actually said "we don't get divorced in this family.  You made a promise to God, you work it out!"  Guilt trip, how dare you think of yourself and your personal well being.  It really opened my eyes to just how oppressive this culture is.  I was raised in it.  Anna drinks the proverbial kool-aid hook, line & sinker.  One guilt trip from her family or pastor and I feel she'll crumble.  Just look at the way she stares at Josh with adoration when he speaks.  She's not going any where.