Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Wellfleet]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but sexual orientation and gender identity aren't protected classes in either Arkansas or Indiana, right? In fact, IIRC it was Arkansas that recently passed another bill forbidding counties/cities from enacting their own local anti-discrimination ordinances that covered any group not already covered in the state constitution. So it's already legal to discriminate against LGBT people; infamous cases like the florist who was sued for not providing flowers for a same-sex wedding happened in states where sexual orientation is a protected class.

 

Josh Duggar and his ilk are just getting greedy with these RFRAs. You can already treat gay people as sub-human, Josh! Don't worry! But if you pass this RFRA you might have the unintended consequence of not being able to discriminate against non-Christian religions. Is that what you want? 

 

Amen. These religious conservatives are not exactly students of history either. By making it OK to discriminate against one particular group now, they don't seem to realize they leave the door open for others to possibly discriminate against them - and their own special little group - in the future. What goes around comes around...

Edited April 4, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Darknight]

So Josie likes to take others rights away but when it comes to his it's wrong. Ok

[frenchtoast]

Folks, I know politics is sort of on topic because of Josh's job, but let's keep it more about Josh and less about the politics of it. There are plenty of places to discuss the Religious Freedom Acts etc. 

 

Thanks!

[Fuzzysox]

M#4 isn't getting much press. Tsk, Tsk they better start moving they will need more $$$$$ to get that TTH #2 in tip top shape.

[BuddyMom]

I'm sure Josh is pissed that his sisters (especially Jilly Muffin) are getting all the attention. He got so much of the screen time for so long and now he has been pushed to the side. Anna will need to come up with some pregnancy drama if they want to gain a little bit of that attention back. I love their kids but could not care less about Josh and Anna.

[SoSueMe]

I'm sure Josh is pissed that his sisters (especially Jilly Muffin) are getting all the attention. He got so much of the screen time for so long and now he has been pushed to the side. Anna will need to come up with some pregnancy drama if they want to gain a little bit of that attention back. I love their kids but could not care less about Josh and Anna.

You guys are killing me with the "Jilly Muffin" references, I keep flashing back to Betty White's SNL muffn skit. :D

[GEML]

I expect Josh and Anna knew it was inevitable - which figured prominently in their taking the job in DC and carving out an independent space.

[flyingdi]

Do Josh`s kids call the Duggar children Aunt or Uncle?  I don't recall ever hearing it.  Just curious.  Also is Mckynzie older than Josie?

[3girlsforus]

It's funny that it is assumed and may very well be correct that Josh and Anna, or at least Josh, is upset about being pushed out of the primary limelight in favor of his siblings. It's so bizarre to me that it would upset him because if I were in his shoes I'd be doing the happy dance that I got out and lived multiple states away.

[Apple Clark]

Do Josh`s kids call the Duggar children Aunt or Uncle?  I don't recall ever hearing it.  Just curious.  Also is Mckynzie older than Josie?

No, they always say they're excited to see their cousins. Maybe with the older ones though. Also, yes, Mckynzie is indeed older than Josie.

[flyingdi]

Thanks, Apple.

[GEML]

My family has a couple of those same situations - uncles/aunts younger than nieces/nephews and we just call everyone cousins too. Often, first generation aunts and uncles aren't given titles either, except when referring to them outside of the family. (I call my father's sister Sarah to her face, but would say Aunt Sarah to you so you would know who she was in relationship to me.). Only great aunts and uncles get the title.

[Joe Jitsu913]

My family is like this too. My nephews are only a year younger than me. I actually have great-nieces and nephews now and I'm only in my 30s! I've been an aunt since I was a baby.

[kalamac]

My youngest sister is in between our nieces and nephew in age range. She's 20 to their 21 and 19. They've always just called me by my first name, even though I was always referred to as Aunty Kathryn when my sister was talking to them about me, but they call her Aunt Chelsea, because it amuses all three of them.

[Jamiesmum]

Saw the episode yesterday where Joshana take an RV trip to Chicago for Priscilla's baby party gender reveal gimme dinner, or some such thing. A few things piqued my interest:

The RV that was bought used, as usual, had problems before they even started. Buy used and save the difference, my arse. As MY father used to say, buying a used vehicle is buying someone else's problems. And it could barely make it up a hill. I thought (secretly hoped) that the engine would give out and they would then slowly slide back down the hill. But with no harm to the kids.

The frequent stopping to look at places of interest was something my parents would do when we were young. And sending them off to run around to burn off excess energy is great idea. Kids have fun, parents stretch their legs, and kids just may go to sleep on the next leg.

They bought fruit for the trip and I thought that would be the last we would see of it. But I did notice Mackynzie eating a mandarine at one point in her car seat, pulling the sections apart like a pro. So obviously they are not unknown to her. They were my favourite at a similar age.

Joshana really interact with their kids, the kids seem to have no restraint in saying anything to them, and they seemed reasonably behaved. I comment on this as it is so far removed from his parents interactions with their kids at similar ages.

Then Josh had to eat that stupid donut burger. Made me feel queasy just looking at it.

I still have issues with Josh, his attitude of entitlement, smugness and overall superiority. And of course with Anna's adoring looks during the THs. But this episode also showed that away from the madness, doing normal family things, they have all the hallmarks of a normal young family, doing a reasonable job of bringing up 3 kids. Of course how that will go after number 4 comes along, only time will tell. And how far down the Fundie rabbit hole they fall is another story yet to be told. But their was a teeny, tiny glimmer of hope for what passes for normal.

[Barb23]

Not until later did we find out that Aunt J'slave Jana was hidden away in the back of the RV, unbeknownst to the viewers.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Barb23

[Wellfleet]

Not until later did we find out that Aunt J'slave Jana was hidden away in the back of the RV, unbeknownst to the viewers.

 

I don't whether this happened because it was something good for Jana - a chance to get away from J'Slave duties at the TTH - or something good for Josh & Anna - childcare help. But something tells me that it's the latter. How absolutely incredible is it that two grown adults didn't themselves capable of coping for a week with 3 children under the age of 6, one of them a toddler? And good little kids too - not one of them a wild child.

[Sew Sumi]

No, they always say they're excited to see their cousins. Maybe with the older ones though. Also, yes, Mckynzie is indeed older than Josie.

Not true. They had an MKid talking head in the wedding episode and Mack says that they're going to see their "aunts and uncles." 

[GEML]

I don't whether this happened because it was something good for Jana - a chance to get away from J'Slave duties at the TTH - or something good for Josh & Anna - childcare help. But something tells me that it's the latter. How absolutely incredible is it that two grown adults didn't themselves capable of coping for a week with 3 children under the age of 6, one of them a toddler? And good little kids too - not one of them a wild child.

And again, I'm watching the same show that you are and not seeing that they couldn't cope or that they complain about it in anything other than a good natured way. I figure Jana was along so that they could film. Otherwise I don't know that they would have had her there.

[Wellfleet]

And again, I'm watching the same show that you are and not seeing that they couldn't cope or that they complain about it in anything other than a good natured way. I figure Jana was along so that they could film. Otherwise I don't know that they would have had her there.

 

Why would three adults be needed for filming purposes? They've filmed at the Maryland house - or wherever it is - when Anna was the only adult there. ??

[Sew Sumi]

Jana was very visible on the trip via social media. It was TLC's call to edit her out of the episode in their attempt to make it appear that Smuganna could take care of their three kids without help. I mean, the entire premise of the episode was a "family trip." Jana was there to wrangle kids, plain and simple. 

 

If Anna has trouble with the three she has, I can't wait to see her in a few years when the size of her brood has doubled. 

 

Also wanted to chime in about "instant obedience" (remember how Anna used that phrase with Mikey?). Sadly, that terminology comes straight out of To Train Up A Child. I finally broke down and read it the other day...it's every bit as appalling as advertised, but mentions of plumbing line have been removed from the 2008 printing. 

[GEML]

I wonder if they do film when only Anna is there, to be honest. We know that one of the Duggar girls is often in DC, and we know that the DC filming is often seriously out of sync with the timeline - even more than the AR timeline, which is pretty bad. Think of the mobile episode - it was so obvious that was filmed when Jill and Derick were already married and pregnant. Anna and Josh could barely film the whole segment.

It may be that the "fun with crafts" segments are always filmed with someone else present, just to help get the kids presentable and question up for their talking head segments. That would take a lot if work.

[JessDVD]

I'm sure Anna is fully capable of handling her children on her own on a day-to-day basis, yet I feel there's a difference between your standard day-to-day raising of 3 kids, versus being filmed doing xyz with the 3 kids. I've never been on TV but I can imagine that it's not exactly an easy, relaxing (it's lucrative, at least...) experience? I have 3 kids and one due this summer also and I sure wouldn't complain to have my sister help me out if freakin' TLC is going to be filming us do just about anything, knowing it will be on TV. Wrangling the kids for interviews, making sure everyone looks TV-presentable to do an errand or crafts at home or whatever. Vacationing too... vacations are fun with kids but they are work and if I had someone filming me while I was taking my 3 on vacation, I would be very grateful to have a third adult on hand. I also wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the DC Duggar filming all happens within a week's time, like Jana and Jinger come up for a week in June and they film J&A doing a bunch of different things, and then space that out over a season.

 

I think it was a bad choice on behalf of TLC to edit the vacation to appear as though Jana weren't there but I've disliked whoever's editing their show for at least two seasons now. I think it was mentioned somewhere here that they had a producer change a few years ago, and that coincided with my non-interest in actually watching the show. Too much re-enacted footage, badly cobbled together timelines, and way way way out of date "storylines". They need to catch up with the fact that social media exists, and know that they can't pull off things like pretending Jana's not on a vacation with J&A, or airing Jill's wedding when she's halfway through her pregnancy.

[Almost 3000]

I don't whether this happened because it was something good for Jana - a chance to get away from J'Slave duties at the TTH - or something good for Josh & Anna - childcare help. But something tells me that it's the latter. How absolutely incredible is it that two grown adults didn't themselves capable of coping for a week with 3 children under the age of 6, one of them a toddler? And good little kids too - not one of them a wild child.

I always stand up for them on this one because with the filming going on I think for the kids safety its good to have an extra set of eyes and hands. Its the lying about it that's wrong.  

[GEML]

What I want to know is Jana not filmed because they are maintaining an illusion or because it would have required paying her and Josh/Anna and or Jim Bob didn't want to share? Given that I don't think anyone but married couples receives their own money, I'm betting the money was the reason, and I think THAT stinks more than the deception.

[Wellfleet]

I wonder if they do film when only Anna is there, to be honest. We know that one of the Duggar girls is often in DC, and we know that the DC filming is often seriously out of sync with the timeline - even more than the AR timeline, which is pretty bad. Think of the mobile episode - it was so obvious that was filmed when Jill and Derick were already married and pregnant. Anna and Josh could barely film the whole segment.

It may be that the "fun with crafts" segments are always filmed with someone else present, just to help get the kids presentable and question up for their talking head segments. That would take a lot if work.

 

Two little kids as well-behaved as Mackenzie and Michael - a lot of work? Between Anna and the crew, they should certainly have been able to wrangle them safely and get the necessary footage "in the can." Heck, I think Mack could wrangle Michael pretty well herself. If Marcus was an issue for Anna, film while he's in for his nap. I think Anna has been learning well as Me-chelle's knee - grab all the free childcare help you can, however and whenever you can. Many teachers manage classrooms full of chldren every day for hours doing some of the same activities as Duggar children are shown doing, WITHOUT the "one adult for every child" ratio that Josh and Anna seem to need, or at least want.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Wellfleet

[GEML]

I think Anna is a very good mother and managed well, and her children bear this out. But filming is a whole other issue, and I'd take help if it were offered to me.

[Wellfleet]

I think Anna is a very good mother and managed well, and her children bear this out. But filming is a whole other issue, and I'd take help if it were offered to me.

 

Maybe that is the biggest question here. Was help really offered? It might have been - and then of course, that's fine. Or was it passively wangled or whined for? Also I can't say I'd call anyone a good mother who seems to be using the Pearl book with that "instant obedience" business, and probably worse things.

[Absolom]

Filming is indeed another whole animal.  They aren't just filming whatever the kids choose to do.  The production team is trying to get certain scenes, reactions, and commentary.  It may take Anna with the one or two who are being filmed while someone else is with the other child or children. . I can easily see how Anna could use another person.  Who cares for the kids while they film scenes with just Anna and Josh?  It won't be the film crew.  

[Barb23]

Filming is indeed another whole animal.  They aren't just filming whatever the kids choose to do.  The production team is trying to get certain scenes, reactions, and commentary.  It may take Anna with the one or two who are being filmed while someone else is with the other child or children. . I can easily see how Anna could use another person.  Who cares for the kids while they film scenes with just Anna and Josh?  It won't be the film crew.

I'm just replying to them taping the TH's or a scene that doesn't require much - maybe they do them during naptime or after the kiddos are in bed. Good grief, give the kiddos a couple bowls of Goldfish & snacks or a new coloring book & crayons, that should keep them busy for 20 minutes. How long does it take to do a TH? They probably know ahead of time what question or topic they are going to talk about or be asked. Josh & Anna & even the kiddos are not new to filming & It's not like they are filming a 2 hour movie - the TH end up being a sentence or two after editing.

[Absolom]

They usually set up for an entire day to do the talking heads.  Filming takes astonishingly longer than most people think.  To get 22 minutes of TV nomally takes in the neighborhood of 48 to 64 hours of work time.  Some of the work time the children wouldn't be directly involved as it's getting the lighting and all of that done or taking down.  Editing and all the rest of post-production is not included in that time.  

 

When I said they could easily use Jana with the filming on the trip, I was actually thinking of the times we see Anna and Josh on activities but not the children.  The children were probably there for a far shorter time than the entire filming with Josh and Anna.  They would probably also want someone there with the kids filming the talking heads because they would need to be in another room.  It would take way too long to try to do it with the noise kids make and the random interruptions.  

[GEML]

Also, Michael is nearly four - you can't count in him taking a nap. (My daughter, the same age, hasn't reliably taken one since she was a year and a half.). Mac probably doesn't nap at all. Marcus would, but it would be hard to plan around. Anyone with a small children knows you're going to have days where it all falls to pieces no matter what. Plus the scenes have to be written and planned. Josh has to be there (or not) and travel arrangements to even some place like National Harbor or Old Town Alexandria would require some logistics.

[luvbadtv]

I can see needing a third adult around for taping.  If Marcus is being whiny, someone needs to watch him while filming continues.  I remember at least one scene that he was not in during the trip.  I'm sure he was off to the sad with Jana.

[dillpickles]

Many teachers manage classrooms full of chldren every day for hours doing some of the same activities as Duggar children are shown doing, WITHOUT the "one adult for every child" ratio that Josh and Anna seem to need, or at least want.

that's true in some cases. But kids don't tend to get left behind in studies with one teacher for a full classroom. And anyway this isn't comparable to filming. It's not just one take and done, the prep work alone could take hours. And besides, the producers would probably be talking to josh and Anna about what they planned to film, and the crew isn't going to be making sure the little ones aren't off playing in traffic. They are well behaved, I'll give them that, but the oldest is like... 5? They're going to need a lot of attention, and it's easy for one of them to trip over a cable, knock out the sound system and cause chaos.

I can give josh and Anna a pass on having jana-banana come with them. But like Geml, said, I wonder if the reason she got cut out was so that TLC and JimBoob didn't have to pay her.

ETA: back and that are not the same words.

Edited April 6, 2015 by dillpickles

[Jenilane6]

Jessa is listening to Christian rap and Marcus is rocking out with headphones on Jessa's twitter.  What heathen things have been happening to the Duggars lately?

Edited April 6, 2015 by Jenilane6

[3girlsforus]

I agree. I think filming is a lot more complex and time-consuming than we might think. They aren't home movies with a video camera. And frankly if they've decided that when they are filming Anna/Josh/kids then Jana or Jinger will head to DC to help then great. They get out of the TTC and "only" have the 3 kids to take care of. Plus I think when Anna gets help, she's getting help not turning over all responsibility to her J'Slave. Jana or Jinger might be in charge when Anna is doing her filming related duties or Josh and Anna might go out for some time alone if one of the sisters is in town but Anna definitely seems to be a much more involved parent and I don't see an attitude of 'Jana is here so I don't have to do anything' from her like we do with Michele.

[Barb23]

Thinking of Easter, have the Smuggars said what church they attend or what faith it is? Baptist, Unitarian ? We have not seen any mention of their church on the show besides the "church friends" they had for dinner when they first moved (who haven't been seen or mentioned since.) When they were deciding to move, both families encouraged them to find a church quickly which would be a great resource for them, esp Anna. I think that would be a nice theme for an episode. They don't even have to show the actual church for the privacy of its members, but maybe show them getting ready, a TH with Mack & Mikey telling about Sunday school or even showing them going out to lunch after the service with another family they have gotten friendly with. I'm just hoping the Smuggars expose the kiddos to other kids so they can have Besties that aren't just family members.

[Absolom]

I think the reason Jana was cut out of the scenes was it didn't fit the TLC plot line.  I expect she was paid the same as she always is - whatever Jim Bob allows.  

[TheDoctorsCompanio]

I don't know about what church they attend, but it looks like they were in Arkansas for the holiday weekend.

[GEML]

I think the reason Jana was cut out of the scenes was it didn't fit the TLC plot line. I expect she was paid the same as she always is - whatever Jim Bob allows.

So nothing then?

[Jamiesmum]

Just caught up on the comments to the Joshanna RV trip to Chicago. I was not aware that Jana had been on the trip with them. The delay in what happens on social media and when the eps are shown in Australia is huge. But I still think Anna is a much more hands on mother than her MIL is. And the M kids are much more comfortable and at ease with their parents than the younger J kids are. No guarded talking, spontaneous hand holding, more comfortable body language. And they were able to show the kids running around in a park and at the fair and that coffee pot with just their parents on hand, no aunt in the frame.

What I would not like to see happen is for all this to be lost if/when they go full on quiverfull. I do believe Anna loves the kids she has, but she has also been brought up to believe that the more blessings you produce, the better Christian you are. I think she is a bit torn. But living in DC without constant daily reminders and pressure from family and the full on fundie community may cause her to ease up a bit on the child production.

[NEGirl]

I have always felt that Anna  is a good mother. She is very loving towards the kids, has a lot of patience, and the kids are well behaved. If Jana was there - good for her. She at least got to be away from the TTH and all those kids. It is a lot easier to take care of 2 or 3 than all those howlers who don't listen.  And, she got to see some places she has never been. I would guess she just about runs out the door when she is going to DC. I also think Anna is a hands on Mom. Moving to DC has been good for both Anna & Josh. When they first moved there there was an episode of Anna with a group of mother's for a kind of play date for the kds. To bad Mack and Michael can't be in  a Christian preschool. They would really benefit from it and it would give Anna and Josh the opportunity to meet other young families.

[JenCarroll]

Thinking of Easter, have the Smuggars said what church they attend or what faith it is? Baptist, Unitarian ? We have not seen any mention of their church on the show besides the "church friends" they had for dinner when they first moved (who haven't been seen or mentioned since.) When they were deciding to move, both families encouraged them to find a church quickly which would be a great resource for them, esp Anna. I think that would be a nice theme for an episode. They don't even have to show the actual church for the privacy of its members, but maybe show them getting ready, a TH with Mack & Mikey telling about Sunday school or even showing them going out to lunch after the service with another family they have gotten friendly with. I'm just hoping the Smuggars expose the kiddos to other kids so they can have Besties that aren't just family members.

I am giggling at the idea of the Duggars attending a Unitarian church. I've belonged to one for many years, and somehow I don't see Josh and Anna making a lot of friends in that congregation! "Hi, I'm Arnold, this is my husband Ralph and our friend Lydia, formerly Larry..." "Hi, can I trouble you for a signature on our pro-choice petition? No?" No.

[Cherrio]

I have no idea when Anna is due so is it too soon to name the baby?

 

I have two names I love.

Girl: Monistat 

Boy: Moonshine

Edited April 6, 2015 by Cherrio

[JessDVD]

yeeeeah... Unitarian doesn't strike me as the Duggars' speed. I'd hazard a guess that J&A go to a Baptist or Bible church, maybe a non-denom with fairly conservative leanings.

 

Anna is due in early July. I think July 10. Her due date is a few days before mine, which is July 13.

 

I can't possibly fathom that anyone on the TLC crew does anything in the way of kid wrangling beyond the extreme circumstances, like Marcus has escaped from Anna and is bolting toward the road and Key Grip #1 happens to be the one at the road and he stops Marcus. TLC pays them to be crew, not baby-sitters. I'm sure that extra childcare needs are part of the show gig, and I can't for a moment fault J&A for having one of Josh's sisters be their help, rather than asking a local friend. It could even be in their TLC contract, for that matter.  

[msblossom]

Jessa is listening to Christian rap and Marcus is rocking out with headphones on Jessa's twitter.  What heathen things have been happening to the Duggars lately?

They're going mainstream. It's a good sign.

[graefin]

But I still think Anna is a much more hands on mother than her MIL is.

That's a pretty low bar.

[3girlsforus]

It might be a low bar but I think Anna is far enough above it she can't even see Michele's bar. No parent is perfect but I really don't see anything in Anna that makes me think she's not an engaged parent putting them as the priority in her life and raising them with love. 

[Absolom]

Anna had the advantage of not having Michelle as a mother.  While Suzette is in ATI, she seems to be a real hands on mother who actually talks to her children and grandchildren.  Unlike Michelle her face lights up and she naturally reaches for the grandchildren.  

[TigerLily20]

So Jessa retweeted that Anna is having a girl (back from March 3rd) was this announced on air?? For some reason I feel like this is the first I have heard of it.......

 

https://twitter.com/Anna_Duggar/status/572829245787013120