S01.E07: Ordinary Death

[Drogo]

The trial of The State v. Nasir Khan moves to the defense phase.

 

[Primetimer]

A symbology of inconvenient truths as the defense mounts its case.

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[Gobi]

Well, it appears that nothing is going to be made of the blood evidence (I hope I'm wrong). The time to bring it out would have been during cross of the state's pathologist:

Yes, that was Naz's blood on the ticket. Yes, that was Naz's blood on the roof of the cab. No, none of the victim's blood was on Naz, or on his clothes, or in the cab. No, he could not have washed off her blood and left his own on his body. No, his blood was not on the knife.

You get the idea.

Oh well, I can still hope for a payoff from the effing deer's head.

[humbleopinion]

Mrs. Sting as the woman Stone visits with the boy toy guest.

Her English accent slipped just a bit.

Kudos for letting herself be filmed in HD.

[maystone]

Can someone please tell me whether or not the cat survives the episode? Out here in the real world things aren't going that well for me right now, and I simply cannot take watching this episode only to see something awful happen to the cat. Apparently I'm fine with something awful happening to the humans, mind you, but I just can't with the cat.

[Maire]

You're good to go Maystone!

[stagmania]

3 minutes ago, maystone said:

Can someone please tell me whether or not the cat survives the episode? Out here in the real world things aren't going that well for me right now, and I simply cannot take watching this episode only to see something awful happen to the cat. Apparently I'm fine with something awful happening to the humans, mind you, but I just can't with the cat.

The cat is doing just fine.

The show, however? Not so much. I'd be abandoning ship at this point if there wasn't only one episode to go.

[Ellaria]

I, too, love that sweet kitty and want to her to come out the big winner in the end.

A few random thoughts. I can't stand the marble-mouthed prosecutor. If the dead woman in the street has any purpose to the greater story then Stepdad is probably not the killer. A set of golf clubs and disco music may be all that's required for Box to listen to his conscience. 

The kiss between Chandra and Naz appears to have been caught on camera. Smart move! Does that get her kicked off his defense team? That would provide our unlikely hero, Stone, with an opportunity to close out this case.

A note to all: the finale is scheduled to be 95 minutes long so lots of story left to tell.

[ganesh]

24 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Mrs. Sting as the woman Stone visits with the boy toy guest.

That was a great scene. "Don't sell yourself short." "I'm not. You want some?!"

I know Naz should have disclosed the second incident in high school, and it made the lawyer look incompetent, but how does one get stitches from a can of soda? If anything, I would guess concussion.

27 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Well, it appears that nothing is going to be made of the blood evidence (I hope I'm wrong). The time to bring it out would have been during cross of the state's pathologist:

Does the lawyer know that Naz was not covered in blood? They showed the video of Box while Box was on the stand. Given the 'mountain of evidence' Box referenced, what about how they arrested Naz and he had no blood on him? The woman was stabbed 22 times. Everyone agrees that's a crime of passion. How does that match up with Naz meeting her for the first time ever on 'the night of?" I mean, it's not like this takes any Columbo hunches. 

Given that we've discussed this point several times, and it's been consistently not addressed, I have to conclude that Box is a terrible detective. How many people went to jail because he couldn't be bothered to put 2 and 2 together. I mean, in the first episode, he said, "what am I missing, Naz?" You're asking it yourself!

How about the knives being sold in only sets of 4? I don't think the DA even knew that. 

Do the lawyers really get up in the witness' face in real life like they were doing here?

I'm glad I finally caught up so I can talk about the show in real time this week instead of being a week behind.

Yay the cat got to sleep in the bed!

Edited August 22, 2016 by ganesh

[humbleopinion]

A full can of soda will split the skin if thrown full force at the head/face so stitches are necessary.

The flirty footsie was nice director's move considering Stone's prior gnarly foot condition.

Funny the Chinese herbalist kept saying "Get rid of the cat" to which Stone replies "I don't want to get rid of the cat."

Conclusion: the cat lives.

[ganesh]

From a high school kid though? Ok. I'm not going to call bs on it, but it seems like a lot of force is necessary. 

[JJWatt]

This episode was a very anticlimactic. I kept on waiting for something shocking to pop up or happen, but it never did. About halfway through the episode, I came to the realization that I had set my expectations for the show too high. I'm still interested in the outcome, but I feel kind of let down I guess you would say.

[kieyra]

The cat got significantly more screentime than the eczema this week.

That said, with the show's heavy-handed approach to certain metaphors (especially where the cat is concerned), I don't think next week's episode title, The Call of the Wild, bodes well for kitty. Either Naz is acquitted and kitty escapes the apartment, or Naz is killed in prison and kitty is killed by Stone's son's new pit bull.

(Sorry. For what's it's worth, like many people I'm more invested in the cat than anything at this point. I just don't trust the show.)

[BetyBee]

The cat got some affection and so did Naz.  Hmm.

I was terrified when Stone was asleep, that he'd wake up to a murdered (by the stepdad) cat.  So glad that didn't happen.  

There was a lot going on in this episode.  

[Anna525]

I found myself yelling at the TV, "Objection, your honor! What's the relevance?" during the court scenes with the celebrity pathologist being questioned by the prosecutor. I'm not sure what to conclude after today's episode. Naz telling on Petey resulting in Petey's death - that was cold, although I could tell he really felt sorry for the guy who committed suicide. I'm disappointed at Naz's mother for doubting Naz's innocence. 

[Guest]

Yes, that was Naz's blood on the ticket. Yes, that was Naz's blood on the roof of the cab. No, none of the victim's blood was on Naz, or on his clothes, or in the cab. No, he could not have washed off her blood and left his own on his body. No, his blood was not on the knife.

Yes! Where is any of this?! Not that I'm invested in Naz's guilt or innocence because this show is awful and I couldn't care less about anything besides the fate of the cat at this point, but there wasn't anything put on by the defense that would have me, if I were on the jury, wondering if the wrong man was being prosecuted for the crime. The lack of blood evidence, however, would certainly create some reasonable doubt. 

I'm so disappointed in this show. It just seems like a sloppy mess of ideas and characters. Am loving John Tutorro (sp?) but that's about it. 

Naz can get sent away for life next week for all I care as long as the cat lives (which, given the bleakness of this crap show, probably won't happen).

[ganesh]

Hey, Box, don't get cocky on the stand, when the lawyer is asking you why you didn't interview people who are on video with Naz. Wow you just admitted to tampering with a crime scene on the stand. Good work moron.

I have to say the inhaler theory was a good argument. If there's anything that would introduce doubt, that is a good approach. 

So now the show is a courtroom drama. I still think they should have focused on Naz and his family and the rest should have been peripheral. 

Edited August 22, 2016 by ganesh

[AuntiePam]

Bits and pieces of this show are just brilliant, but as a whole -- maybe it'll come together nicely at the end. 

This week, I like what happened with the defense witness.  We didn't know until now that he's famous, he's written books, he's testified on TV, etc.  I thought he was some cut-rate schlub they found on Craigslist.  But yay, he's coming up with stuff that could help Naz.  So there's that to be excited about, and then there's the DA making him look like he's in it for the fame, and the guy sitting in the box, preening and smirking toward the jury.  Is he good for Naz?  Maybe not. 

I also like that Naz's mom didn't come back, after Chandra told her she couldn't get up and leave.

[wrongheaven]

When the lawyer kissed Naz, I threw my hands in the air and cried "What show am I watching?" It just felt out of place. Then again, I think she's a poor lawyer (as is the DA) as no one seems to ever want to object to anything (when they finally did, of course it was pointless and overruled). 

11 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

Bits and pieces of this show are just brilliant, but as a whole -- maybe it'll come together nicely at the end. 

That's exactly it. I think so much of this show is great, but on the other hand, so much feels fast forwarded. I feel like there is an episode missing somehow because we got to the trial so fast and the investigation seems short changed. And I feel like Naz's transformation also feels fast forwarded as well. I want the gaps filled in, because so much of what seems sped up also feels inauthentic, and that is really hurting the show for me. 

I'm hoping the finale will be brilliant and I'm glad to hear it's extra long because I think there's a lot that needs to be covered to be satisfying. I just wish there was less of the prison storyline and more of the storyline that actually relates to The Night Of. 

[ganesh]

30 minutes ago, Anna525 said:

I'm disappointed at Naz's mother for doubting Naz's innocence. 

This is why I'd rather the show focused on the family. How did she arrive at this decision? What was her thought process? Was there an argument with her husband? It almost seems like, "hey wouldn't it be cool if the mom thinks he did it?"

When they showed the family scenes, everyone seemed to be getting along. I don't know where this came from other than checking a box for DRAMA.

So we're all on Team Cat? I'm just making sure. 

[Drogo]

I love this show, I think it's beautiful and well done. The characters feel very real to me. 

I hope the wicked stepfather character feels a very real Coke can to the face by series end.

[Lemons]

29 minutes ago, Anna525 said:

 I'm disappointed at Naz's mother for doubting Naz's innocence. 

I think a person would have to be delusional if they didn't have some doubt in a case like this.  He goes home with a girl, has sex with the girl, the girl is found murdered within a few hours of this, he is found running away from the house with what appears to be the murder weapon.  He says he doesn't remember.

 What are the odds that he happens to go in the kitchen, falls asleep, someone else comes in and murders her, then he wakes up after and finds her dead.  

[Superpole2000]

What the fuck was that kissing scene? We can see those stupid "sin" "bad" tattoos on his hands, which is ridiculous enough, but now his lawyer is kissing him? Come on! This is so dumb!

And ugh...another surprise about Nas' past. Next week we're going to find out that he once raped and killed someone.

And why the hell is the courtroom so dark? Are they trying to put the judge and jury to sleep in there? The lawyers' faces are in shadows!

At least Dr. Katz (of course Katz...of course...and I'm sure his middle name is Eczema) was a breath of fresh air. I'm just pleased to get some actual crime scene analysis.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Superpole2000

[Knuckles]

I don't care at this point if Naz gets nailed or not for Andrea's death...he and Freddy straight up murdered Victor, which is murder one and conspiracy to commit murder one. 

And, he lied by omission to his attorneys, leaving Chandra with egg on her face when she spoke to the school counselor...2 violent episodes, throwing someone down the stairs, and opening a kid's face with a gash requiring 12 stitches...not a smart move. And a serious face plant by Chandra and Naz while the scene is being recorded...is not smart either.

And, he was no drug innocent, as the first episode might have suggested, but a small-time dealer himself.

I do feel for the family, financially ruined, and feeling heat from their own community. Watching his mother was heartbreaking.

Still, the asthma thing seems to be the hook..anyone else notice the fist-pumping cat statue in the Chinatown store?... that Stone and Naz both share...and the cat seems to ignite? 

I'm in for the finale only because I've already invested enough time.

[Dogberry]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

From a high school kid though? Ok. I'm not going to call bs on it, but it seems like a lot of force is necessary. 

A high-school boy can generate just as much force as an adult man... especially if rage is involved.  Heck, many high-school boys are bigger and stronger than older men.  And if you take a look at the irregular shape of a soda can's top, it's pretty easy to imagine how that could cut open skin.  I've seen baseball players needing stitches from getting hit in the face by a fastball, and a baseball is perfectly round.  It also weighs less than a can of soda.  

[Sader87]

yeah....it's too bad, had high hopes for this show, seems like it's gone off the rails.

[The Hound Lives]

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

I love this show, I think it's beautiful and well done. The characters feel very real to me. 

I hope the wicked stepfather character feels a very real Coke can to the face by series end.

I'm with you on this. I am still in hardcore and feel the main characters, while we aren't seeing enough of the family in my opinion, have been fleshed out. I made mention last week in the Samson & Delilah thread that I wondered if all the people thanking Naz on Facebook were thanking him for supplying Adderall. I wasn't shocked by that reveal and, honestly, not even disappointed in him. Yeah, it's stupid as fuck but peddling scripts has been goes on in every school. In my day (sounding like an old lady here), it was Ativan. $10 bucks a pop is a deal, not that I think people should be selling their scripts. I think Helen trying to goad the witness into being pissed that Naz marked up his script 900% was kind of funny because most kids wouldn't give a shit as long as they got what they wanted. 

Again, I will probably go to hell for this but I am not feeling sorry for the cat at this point. I know it sucks that he is locked in a room but had Stone not returned to the shelter, he would be long gone. Stone seems to be taking good care of him. I am a cat fan, much prefer them to dogs, but the fate of the cat isn't a worry for me. I can be alone in this. lol

That recording of Naz and Chandra kissing is going to come back to bite her in the ass. She is toast and it makes me sad for her. I can't say it was out of character but an impulse that she realized way to damn late. 

Trudie Styler! Wow....that was random. I could say my money is on Stepdad but it seems to obvious at this point. I think he is just a louse. Andrea's financial advisor/lawyer seems pretty intent on painting him as a real scumbag. I think SD is, don't get me wrong but what does Mr. Financial Lawyer have to gain from telling all this? 

 

[bagatelle]

Why does Trudie Styler look so bad.  She has all that Sting money for good surgery, but her face was so filled and pulled and her nose so pinched.  I immediately recognized her, but couldn't believe how Real Housewife she looked.

Also, they opened the show with a murder that was very similar to Andrea's and it never went anywhere.   A lot has to happen next week.

[Jodithgrace]

Oy! Not just a drug user, but  drug dealer! And he put not one, but two kids in the hospital! No wonder Naz's mother has doubts about her son's innocence.. Of course she knew about the violent incidents, but not the drugs. And he stole his father's cab and went out looking, if not for trouble, then to enjoy some sex, drugs and rock n' roll at a frat party. Since Naz's mother is a Muslim and doesn't drink or use drugs, she probably views drugs and alcohol as worse than they are, and responsible for who knows what horrible actions.

Was Box this bad a cop for 33 years? He should have been fired rather than retired! He totally took the easy way out on this case, never looking past the most obvious answers. If he had even bothered to ask Naz for his version of his encounter with the Muslim hater, he would have found out about Duane Reade. He never even bothered with Crime Solving 101, which is Follow The Money. That would have led him to deadbeat step father, who had a much better motive than poor stupid Naz. Meanwhile nobody has even questioned him. 

And Naz seems determined to turn himself in the the convictiest convict who ever served time. There are lifers who don't have his thousand yard stare. The teacher who described Naz after he hurt those kids said he had a total lack of affect. He is showing the same thing here. Since the beginning..has he even cried? Except for the moment in the place station when he yelled, "I didn't do it!" has he shown any emotion at all? He has developed a cold as ice shell, and he developed it immediately. Like it is part of who he really is. 

I am enjoying this show despite the questions I keep hurling at the screen. I love Stone, and his struggles. Just living seems to be such an effort for him, with first the excema and now the the asthma. And his son denies even knowing him on the playground. If only he and the cat could be together..it's like an interspecies Romeo and Juliet! 

[AuntiePam]

1 hour ago, Superpole2000 said:

And why the hell is the courtroom so dark? Are they trying to put the judge and jury to sleep in there? The lawyers' faces are in shadows!

Gosh, yes.  Dark and dingy and dirty -- it looks industrial, like something out of the movie Brazil.  Must be a metaphor for something.

I didn't like the kiss either -- not nearly enough interaction between Chandra and Naz to justify it.  For a second, with the flashback, I thought maybe the kiss would trigger more memories of that night.  Since we didn't see anything more in the flashback than we saw in the first episode, maybe that's a sign that there isn't anything more for Naz to remember.

The guard who was picking the broken glass out of the window -- will he get in trouble for not accounting for all the pieces? 

It would have been nice if we could have heard the defense recount what Naz told them about that night.  I guess we just have to assume that they were told everything. 

[scrb]

Yeah he and Freddy conspired to murder that guy.  That's even worse than the premeditated BS that the DA came up with.

The cougar might have gotten Stone if she did anything but play footsie.  Then again, she doesn't seem to be his type.

[LoveLeigh]

How can a series start out so brilliantly and just deteriorate into a superficial development of a murder mystery which included a sub plot of how jail turns innocents into criminals? That story was done in Caged. 

Also, the murder trial was short and superficial as well. So many witnesses were not even called on to testify. 

And we are not even given any insight into who the murderer was. It's a weird series. But Riz is a great actor. 

[BetyBee]

After sleeping on it, I'm more confused than ever about this show.  I think back to when Stone said Box was a "subtle beast" and I thought they were telling us he was a good detective, but what they've shown us is quite the opposite. So is he a crappy cop and he actually knows it and  that is why he looked so miserable at his retirement party, sitting with his golf clubs that he probably gave to the bartender before he went home?  

I guess we'll learn more about the body shown at the beginning and then forgotten, and I hope we learn more about Duane Reed, the huge cliff hanger from a couple of episodes back, also forgotten.  In fact, when Chandra mentioned Duane Reed, I thought maybe the defense has him in their back pocket, with some info  and we would be seeing him on the stand.  Just very confusing.  

Chandra kissing Naz is bizarre.  The way Naz kept flashing back to "the night of" made me think he might be imagining that he was kissing her.  It's almost worse that it's real.  What a creeper to be thinking of that night when kissing Chandra.  I even wondered if Chandra kissed him, knowing the camera was on them, in order to provide him an out if the case goes bad, even though she would be sacrificing her career.  She has compromised herself as his defense attorney.  How can she adequately represent him if they have a romantic relationship?  If Stone finds out, he would not hesitate to use that information to at least get a new trial.   I predict Chandra will wind up with the cat as her career circles the drain.

I have been under the impression the whole time that this is a complete story and that if there is a season 2, it would be another story.  Does anyone know if that is the case?  I can't bear to sit through another season of Naz, "good boy gone bad" in prison.  I want this all wrapped up next week.  

[Thinbalina]

I like this show because it is showing the decisions one must make while locked up. Either they take on the rules of the land(Rikers) or they succumb to it. I know, I was disappointed with Naz when he started to do the drugs because I wanted him to maintain a clear head while up in there. 

While watching, I wonder if I was in the same situation would I succumb to that life and can I easily judge sitting in the comforts of my home. I don't know and I don't plan to find out but I find myself restraining from judging Naz's actions. In Rikers, unfortunately, they have their own judge, jury and executioner.

I wish Naz would've spoke up before the young man took his life and I hope the detectives faults are further extracted as the trial goes on. 

One thing I do know is Naz has faults, he isn't as innocent as the 1st episode portrayed him. His hands are not clean and as each episode pulls back the layers on his life I get more enthralled in to his character. 

He's no dummy..

On another note: I really feel bad for his parents especially his father who is sticking by him but watching their world crumble. I wish we could see more discussions between his father and mother because clearly the mother has doubts and I would think that would cause some kind of strain within their relationship.

[Ellaria]

13 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

I have been under the impression the whole time that this is a complete story and that if there is a season 2, it would be another story.  Does anyone know if that is the case?  I can't bear to sit through another season of Naz, "good boy gone bad" in prison.  I want this all wrapped up next week.  

As far as I know, this story will wrap up next week. I'm not even sure that it has been renewed for S2 yet.

8 hours ago, ganesh said:

Does the lawyer know that Naz was not covered in blood? They showed the video of Box while Box was on the stand. Given the 'mountain of evidence' Box referenced, what about how they arrested Naz and he had no blood on him? The woman was stabbed 22 times.

There is blood everywhere at the crime scene but on Naz. We are being shown the crime scene photos repeatedly. And yet, it bothers no one involved in the case (just viewers like me and ganesh). No mention of bloody towels in the bathroom, no discussion of showering, etc. Maybe I've watched too many episodes of CSI. However, the showrunners chose to depict a violent, excessively bloody crime scene. Unless something comes up next week, it may have to be hand-waved away as being done for dramatic effect only. 

[stagmania]

8 hours ago, ganesh said:

So now the show is a courtroom drama. I still think they should have focused on Naz and his family and the rest should have been peripheral. 

And not even a good courtroom drama! As others have pointed out, there were HUGE pieces of evidence not covered in the trial, and the defense was weak as hell. Where was Duane Reade? Blood evidence? Character witnesses for Naz? 

I think the worst part of how this has all shaken out is that it's completely ruined the characters for me. What the hell is going on with Naz? Why does he keep lying and hiding things from his lawyers? Does he want to go to prison for the rest of his life? It's not as if a conviction would allow him to stay at Rikers with Freddie and his cushy set up. None of it makes sense and we've been given no idea what his motivations are.

And Chandra just looks incompetent and foolish. Making out with her client, totally losing her cool in the courtroom, failing to come up with any kind of adequate cross for prosecution witnesses and experts. I feel bad for the actress playing her; this could have been a big opportunity for exposure, but she's saddled with this mess of a character.

Even John Stone fell flat in this episode. He just sits passively at the defense table, not helping Chandra, not offering any ideas or insights. His stalking of Andrea's stepfather seems fairly aimless, as well. Why isn't he trying to find Duane Reade? His whole plot has devolved into foot and cat jokes. 

I'm with @JJWatt: my expectations for this show were way too high. They have definitely failed to live up to that great pilot episode.

[BooBear]

48 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

Chandra kissing Naz is bizarre.  The way Naz kept flashing back to "the night of" made me think he might be imagining that he was kissing her.  It's almost worse that it's real.  What a creeper to be thinking of that night when kissing Chandra.  I even wondered if Chandra kissed him, knowing the camera was on them, in order to provide him an out if the case goes bad, even though she would be sacrificing her career.  She has compromised herself as his defense attorney.  How can she adequately represent him if they have a romantic relationship?  If Stone finds out, he would not hesitate to use that information to at least get a new trial.  

So I guess someone has seen the BBC version. I was annoyed at the kiss but figured they might have to use it because of some sort of requirement that this show me "based on" the BBC version. You can see how heavily BBC is involved in the end credits. I don't think it works here though. I can't buy that Chandra had any feelings for him at all and they hardly even talk. If there had been some showing that Chandra didn't like being a lawyer and wanted out... maybe...

Ugh this show on the legal stuff!!!  Chandra you can't ask questions while sitting down. Chandra you must ask to approach the witness... Chandra you cannot "ride" the witness box.  Chandra stop asking (sometimes leading on direct) questions of people who have been in a courtroom before when you don't know the answer to the question? Is there a judge in the room... it seems there is someone who says "your turn" but otherwise... you really wouldn't know it.  Chandra: If it doesn't fit you must acquit. Me :::: groan / head-smack::::

 I didn't find his mom's beeline for the bathroom to a a problem. Seeing bloody photos can send anyone running.

Quote

I have been under the impression the whole time that this is a complete story and that if there is a season 2, it would be another story.  Does anyone know if that is the case?  I can't bear to sit through another season of Naz, "good boy gone bad" in prison.  I want this all wrapped up next week.  

I don't think they could get the actor back who plays Naz. He is currently in like "everything" currently being made. :)

Naz is not a sympathetic guy though. He seems to relish his new life as *someone* in jail.   I never get the sense that he has to do this stuff.. I get the sense that he likes it. Freddy saw that in him from the start. I think that was Freddy's interest in him. He saw a criminal yearning to be let out of his "good boy" image.

[TaraS1]

I see you all have covered the major WTF moments of this episode for me already, such as:

1.  The lawyer kissing him.  Come on, show.  This was as subtle and believable as Naz swallowing the hooha drug balloons in plain view of a million COs and cameras.  It just dismantles any respect I have for her as an attorney, which I'm guessing wasn't their point.

2.  The bizarre cross examination/testimony scenes.  It's like the prosecutor and witnesses are just up there chatting like they're out having a coffee together, only a few of the questions were relevant and yet Chandra makes no objections.  Might have been a nice bit of writing, but it wasn't remotely realistic to me as an expert who not only works in a courtroom setting but has watched roughly five billion hours of CourtTV, the ID channel, L&O, etc.

I really do only care what happens to Stone at this point.  I'd love to see him back for another season, but they have really got to tighten up the writing.

[Neurochick]

9 hours ago, Drogo said:

I love this show, I think it's beautiful and well done. The characters feel very real to me. 

I hope the wicked stepfather character feels a very real Coke can to the face by series end.

I do like this show, but it feels like there are pieces missing, like it should have been 13 episodes or something. 

Quote

Again, I will probably go to hell for this but I am not feeling sorry for the cat at this point. I know it sucks that he is locked in a room but had Stone not returned to the shelter, he would be long gone. Stone seems to be taking good care of him. I am a cat fan, much prefer them to dogs, but the fate of the cat isn't a worry for me. I can be alone in this. lol

I love the cat.  I'm just not invested in her/his story.  However he/she does take direction well.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Neurochick

[kay1864]

7 hours ago, scrb said:

The cougar might have gotten Stone if she did anything but play footsie.  Then again, she doesn't seem to be his type.

Why would she want Stone when she already had a boy toy?  It's not like Stone is young and attractive.

[patty1h]

After Petey killed himself, I was sure that Freddy was going to try to convince Naz that he should talk his mother into smuggling drugs into the prison.  That would have been really gross on many levels.

[humbleopinion]

Trudie does looks like she and Vickie G. from Orange County Housewives use the same plastic surgeon but the real Vanity Fair page that they photo shopped the stepdad in with Mrs. Sting was the give away.

Buckle up folks the 90 minute finale will be jerking us around, spinning and turning us upside down and hopefully safely upright at the closing scenes.

[TaraS1]

The photoshopping thing is one of my biggest TV pet peeves.  They can't take a real pic of the cast members together so it doesn't look fake?

I knew I recognized the sugar mama, but I never would have figured out it was Mrs. Sting.

[Uncle JUICE]

11 hours ago, Anna525 said:

I found myself yelling at the TV, "Objection, your honor! What's the relevance?" during the court scenes with the celebrity pathologist being questioned by the prosecutor. I'm not sure what to conclude after today's episode. Naz telling on Petey resulting in Petey's death - that was cold, although I could tell he really felt sorry for the guy who committed suicide. I'm disappointed at Naz's mother for doubting Naz's innocence. 

OH MY GOD, so did I. The whole testimony of the kid he sold drugs to, "Objection, irrelevant," as she was not in any way tying it to the murder. There were at least three instances where "Objection, calls for speculation" or "Objection, speculation" would have been proper, mainly with the pathologist. I mean you might have run into the Few Good Men problem where the judge overrules and calls the witness's speculation an expert opinion. "Now you can answer the question I didn't ask," "Objection, vague." Make her work. Make her rephrase "Was this wound caused by," which is definitive and absolutely speculation, to "COULD THIS have been caused by," where the doubt is inherent, or at the very least, cross examine and ask the numerous ways it could have been caused. I like proecdural courtroom, but not when it's done so poorly. I know Stone isn't lead counsel, and she's green, but seriously. 

[teddysmom]

Exactly. How is selling your Adderall to your friends make you a murderer?  Irrelevant. 

Is the defense not allowed to question prosecution witnesses prior to the trial?   How does Chandra keep asking questions she doesn't know the answer to? Why didn't she or John go talk to the coach?  

And someone up thread mentioned Where is the blood evidence in all this?  They keep bringing up OJ. Are they too afraid a jury 20 years later can't understand how blood does or doesn't get somewhere? 

[Uncle JUICE]

11 hours ago, Anna525 said:

 

Wait, wait, wait a minute. None of her blood is on his clothes? How is this trial even proceeding at all? I totally forgot that!!! 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Uncle JUICE

[deedee]

I was hoping that the kiss was only in Naz's imagination-it really made absolutely no sense. When it was shown to be real I decided I didn't care what happened to anybody but Stone and maybe the parents. I really want Stone to be able to find a cure for his asthma so the cat can be released from jail, uh I mean room.

[Uncle JUICE]

28 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

 

Is the defense not allowed to question prosecution witnesses prior to the trial?   How does Chandra keep asking questions she doesn't know the answer to? Why didn't she or John go talk to the coach?  

I don't believe they can depose the prosecution witnesses prior to trial, but they SHOULD get a list of witnesses the prosecution plans to call, so that they can have the conversation with their client about what these people are likely to say, what MIGHT they say, and then prepare. I also hated so much the idea that she brought  up people like the funeral guy and Duane Reid, and Box couldn't summon the response "It's a big city, there's a lot of people on video surveillance and peripheral to other key testimony, we can't round up every car that went through a toll booth. Only one of these people you want me to talk to were actually at the scene of the crime, and he's sitting right next to you."

ETA in the case of the coach, even if his name is on a witness list, and Naz tells you who he is, the right due dilignece there would lead you to request his high school transcripts and disciplinary measures. And even her cross, "What was the mood of the school at that time?", "OBJECTION, the witness cannot be expected to speculate on the mood of X number of students, 15 years ago." His testimony has to be limited by the prosecution ONLY to the disciplinary matter at hand (i.e. he shoved a kid down stairs and through a coke can at another), it's enough of an effect to give the jury. Any questions as to why the coach thinks he did it are objectionable. 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Uncle JUICE

[Anna525]

9 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Is the defense not allowed to question prosecution witnesses prior to the trial?   How does Chandra keep asking questions she doesn't know the answer to? Why didn't she or John go talk to the coach?  

This! I was annoyed at how Chandra is constantly surprised at the answers she is hearing! I think the point was to show how inexperienced she is but I was getting exasperated. And is Naz already tired of defending himself? He doesn't even offer an explanation anymore, at least to Chandra, e.g., Adderall.

[kieyra]

13 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Wait, wait, wait a minute. None of her blood is on his clothes? How is this trial even proceeding at all? I totally forgot that!!! 

Yeah, at least some of us have been irritated by the blood evidence since the first episode. But back then, we were assuming someone on the show--investigators, defense, whomever--would quickly notice the incongruities.

There's even a plausible scenario: He could have stabbed her after the sex, while still naked, then showered and gotten dressed in his unbloodied clothes. In the real world, the bathroom and drains would have been examined for evidence of this. In the show-world, Andrea does not appear to have had any bathrooms in her house, so I guess we'll never know.

(Unless they're saving this all for the dumbest hail-Mary ever.) 

Edited August 22, 2016 by kieyra