Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[kokapetl]

I think it's going to take two Duggars escaping together for any escape to succeed long term or be profitable. They'll need each other's support. Jinger & Joseph, the howler twins, or Johannah (as the leader) & Jackson, maybe with Jenny too, could be successful. None are really literate enough to write a compelling book, but the first two groups could get a "Breaking Duggar" reality show, Jackson and Johannah might be old news by the time they have the legal right to leave.

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Guiz. Ben is suffering from verbal persecution.

https://twitter.com/BenSeewald/status/628236195852488704

[Churchhoney]

Guiz. Ben is suffering from verbal persecution.

https://twitter.com/BenSeewald/status/628236195852488704

 

Ben Seewald: Fearless promulgator of Fox News talking points. Maybe he scored a deal and Roger Ailes is paying him.

[emma675]

 

Guiz. Ben is suffering from verbal persecution.

https://twitter.com/...236195852488704

I am loving the comments left under this. Someone named "Baby Jesus" is ripping him to shreds.

[kokapetl]

Guiz. Ben is suffering from verbal persecution.

https://twitter.com/BenSeewald/status/628236195852488704

Is he saying that the term 'verbal persecution' is different from 'physical persecution' similar to 'physical execution' being different from 'verbal execution' in that 'verbal execution' cannot mean to kill?

[Churchhoney]

Is he saying that the term 'verbal persecution' is different from 'physical persecution' similar to 'physical execution' being different from 'verbal execution' in that 'verbal execution' cannot mean to kill?

 

I like parrots, but I don't think they're capable of that degree of language comprehension. ;  )

[galax-arena]

I am deeply interested to know Ben's thoughts on what this so-called "verbal persecution" entails. Tell me more, Mr. Seewald. *chin in hands* 

[Aja]

I am deeply interested to know Ben's thoughts on what this so-called "verbal persecution" entails. Tell me more, Mr. Seewald. *chin in hands* 

I, too, would love to hear this. *chin in hands next to galax-arena*

[galax-arena]

I, too, would love to hear this. *chin in hands next to galax-arena*

Maybe he'll bless with a video explaining verbal persecution to the unwashed masses. Ben's such a gifted speaker. 

[Aja]

Maybe he'll bless with a video explaining verbal persecution to the unwashed masses. Ben's such a gifted speaker. 

And with such a nimble mind! It's a shame we're so stupid but I'm sure he'll clear it up for us.

[Defrauder]

I think I can clear this up for everybody as God has laid this following scene on my imagination:

 

So Ben tell us in your own words exactly what 'Verbal Persecution' means.

 

Ben "Anything someone is saying to me or about me, my religion, faith, or family that I do not agree with"

 

Thank you Ben you've been most enlightening.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Defrauder

[toodles]

I think I can clear this up for everybody as God has laid this following scene on my imagination:

 

So Ben tell us in your own words exactly what 'Verbal Persecution' means.

 

Ben "Anything someone is saying to me or about me, my religion, faith, or family that I do not agree with"

 

Thank you Ben you've been most enlightening.

Or being just plain mean to me.  Or Blessa.  Wahhh!!  We're so Perrrrrrsecuted!!

 

ETA:  I hit the enter button too soon.

Edited August 3, 2015 by toodles

[RazzleberryPie]

I know Bin is barely 20 years old, but seriously. Verbal persecution vs physical persecution? Sticks and stones, man, sticks and stones.

 

He thinks he's so deep and profound. If he were a pot smoker, he'd be the one waxing philosophically about universes on snowflakes and butterflies in Switzerland causing Tsunamis in Tokyo or whatevs.

[Sew Sumi]

I am deeply interested to know Ben's thoughts on what this so-called "verbal persecution" entails. Tell me more, Mr. Seewald. *chin in hands* 

Jessa posted that inane Lion = abortion meme on Instagram this morning and got ripped to shreds for it. Someone suggested that everyone report all the "haters" for "hate speech" and "bullying." I told this moron that disagreement does not equal those things, and that she would know real hate speech and bullying when she saw it. 

 

I guess Ben saw parts of this conversation and has co-opted this term of "verbal persecution" to basically mean he's crying in a corner sucking his thumb because he doesn't know how to debate with adults. 

[CofCinci]

Ben demands that rights be taken away from people but then cries when he is being verbally persecuted?  Oh jeez.

[MichellesRobocall]

Ben demands that rights be taken away from people but then cries when he is being verbally persecuted?  Oh jeez.

 

But he's in the Christian majority! People say mean things to him on the internet! Poor Bin!

[CofCinci]

But he's in the Christian majority! People say mean things to him on the internet! Poor Bin!

It's SO hard being an educated, wealthy Caucasian Christian male in Arkansas.

 

.

Edited August 4, 2015 by CofCinci

[Churchhoney]

She has top billing at that Southern Women's Show stop in Charlotte. What does that pay? Couple thou? I can't see it being more than that, especially given the long list of guests. I doubt all the rest of them are speaking for free. 

 

Seems as if they have about half a dozen speaker-type guests, with JDS probably having the widest name recognition. Hard to imagine anybody's going to take home more than a few thou from this.

 

Browsing the webpage I couldn't help but think that Jessa and the last speaker listed, a relationship coach who argues for "Dating with a Purpose," should have a cage match. (I think she's been discussed here before, but I really love her list of topics in the context of Jessa's attendance):

 

Dating with a Purpose lady says: "How do you know if you have given your date a fair chance to demonstrate their 'mate' potential?

Jessa says: Daddy said it was okay.

 

D w/a p lady: "Are you so infatuated that you avoid seeing the obvious red flags that make this date a poor partnership choice?"

Jessa: Daddy said it was okay.

 

D w/a P lady says she'll explain: "The purpose of first dates and why you need to have as many of them as possible."

Jessa: Daddy said you should never date at all, and anybody who's had three first dates -- like my mom, Michelle -- is a hellbound slut. (sorry, Mom)

   

D w/a P lady will also explain: "Sorting and screening skills to use on your first three dates."

Jessa: Daddy says if he's okay.

   

D w/a P lady will tell us: "The Top 7 signs that your date is a 'keeper.'

Jessa: Daddy said there are three signs. If he's breathing, he asks for your hand, and he loves Jesus, you have to keep him. Forever.

 

https://southernshows.com/wch/happening/feature/373

Edited August 4, 2015 by Churchhoney

[BitterApple]

What the hell was Ben trying to say? Who is persecuting him? He's free to say what he wants and some people will agree while others disagree. This family gives me migraines.

[Defrauder]

I think Joe must have known why the howler was sleeping by his bed:

Maybe a 'don't ask, don't tell' sort of situation, but above all, hide it from the younger ones, especially Jackson.

I see Mechelle angrily pointing at the laying down kid who looks like he is trying to hide from her wrath like maybe she just hit him or something.

[kokapetl]

I see Mechelle angrily pointing at the laying down kid who looks like he is trying to hide from her wrath like maybe she just hit him or something.

I chose that moment because it sort of looks like that, but she's really asking "who's that?" This is in front of cameras, so she 'kept sweet'.

[Defrauder]

I know Bin is barely 20 years old, but seriously. Verbal persecution vs physical persecution? Sticks and stones, man, sticks and stones.

 

He thinks he's so deep and profound. If he were a pot smoker, he'd be the one waxing philosophically about universes on snowflakes and butterflies in Switzerland causing Tsunamis in Tokyo or whatevs.

The thought of Ben smoking pot and I see visions of a paranoid Ben preaching passionately about the end of the world.  On the other hand a drunk Ben could be entertaining slurring and stripping and such.

[Zahdii]

Not that I would ever do this, or condone anyone else doing it, but I have to wonder what would happen if they were each given a couple of pot brownies without knowing what was in them.

[GEML]

Ben just needs some time at a decent college. It's a shame he probably won't get it, because I think he would genuinely like to engage people in debate, but he has no idea how to do it, and has never been around people who think differently than he does and don't care that he does, which I think would be very eye opening for him. Social media only reinforces that he's wonderful/stupid via comments. People who say things like "whatever" or "if that's what works for you" aren't going to post.

[questionfear]

Ben just needs some time at a decent college. It's a shame he probably won't get it, because I think he would genuinely like to engage people in debate, but he has no idea how to do it, and has never been around people who think differently than he does and don't care that he does, which I think would be very eye opening for him. Social media only reinforces that he's wonderful/stupid via comments. People who say things like "whatever" or "if that's what works for you" aren't going to post.

I agree.

 

Personally, I think every kid should take a mandatory philosophy class, and for someone like Ben it would certainly help him to understand how to present his views and possibly understand others. 

 

But that would require him opening his mind up, so never mind. 

[msblossom]

Take away Ben's hyper-Calvinism and he has the potential for being well-liked, if not a little dopey.

[galax-arena]

Take away Ben's hyper-Calvinism and he has the potential for being well-liked, if not a little dopey.

I'm not sure I agree. It's not Ben's Calvinism that made me think he and Jessa were assholes. They're just insufferable in general. Comparing abortion to the Holocaust is not a good look for anyone.

[JoanArc]

 

Not that I would ever do this, or condone anyone else doing it, but I have to wonder what would happen if they were each given a couple of pot brownies without knowing what was in them.

Hell, just a few drinks...

[msblossom]

I'm not sure I agree. It's not Ben's Calvinism that made me think he and Jessa were assholes. They're just insufferable in general. Comparing abortion to the Holocaust is not a good look for anyone.

I see what you're saying, Galax-arena, but in Ben's case I think he's coming off that way in large part due to Michael Seewald, who is a hateful man and hyper Calvinistic.

Completely agree with you on Jessa.

[mbutterfly]

Guiz. Ben is suffering from verbal persecution.

https://twitter.com/BenSeewald/status/628236195852488704

I trust he's implying he's the victim of hounding, intimidation, and bullying. I don't see it. 

[Bella]

I'm hiding a bunch of off-topic posts that discuss politics. This includes the hybrid posts that have a single on-topic sentence along with a much larger discussion of politics.

 

This is the Jessa and Ben thread. Please discuss Jessa and Ben here, not politics.

 

As I said elsewhere on the forum this morning, off-topic posts are a problem because people who follow these threads see that there's new content and then have to plow through a lot of other stuff they don't want to read. And that's not fair to them. A little thread drift is okay - it happens - but it really goes on and on and on in some of these threads, and we're starting to tighten up on that. We appreciate your cooperation.

 

Thanks!

[sometimesy]

Ben just needs some time at a decent college. It's a shame he probably won't get it, because I think he would genuinely like to engage people in debate, but he has no idea how to do it, and has never been around people who think differently than he does and don't care that he does, which I think would be very eye opening for him. Social media only reinforces that he's wonderful/stupid via comments. People who say things like "whatever" or "if that's what works for you" aren't going to post.

I don't see Ben as open for debate. He is open to having a discussion with someone who will reinforce what he already believes, then he will preach. The beauty of the cult is they have built in safety measures to prevent the group from thinking outside the box. They are told 'the bad guys will tell you xyz', they hear xyz and nod their heads,' oh yeah I'm on to you.' They never realize which side is doing the manipulating.

[galax-arena]

I don't see Ben as open for debate. He is open to having a discussion with someone who will reinforce what he already believes, then he will preach. The beauty of the cult is they have built in safety measures to prevent the group from thinking outside the box. They are told 'the bad guys will tell you xyz', they hear xyz and nod their heads,' oh yeah I'm on to you.' They never realize which side is doing the manipulating.

I think Ben is an asshole, but IMO he's more open to debating someone than Josh is. I know that isn't saying much, because Josh is Josh. But IIRC, Josh has never done the back-and-forth that we saw with Ben and the egg in that stupid "verbal persecution" tweet.

 

It doesn't necessarily mean he's open to changing his mind; I think Ben just likes to argue. But he doesn't seem as opposed to venturing outside his little echo chamber once in a while, maybe. 

[msblossom]

I don't see Ben as open for debate. He is open to having a discussion with someone who will reinforce what he already believes, then he will preach. The beauty of the cult is they have built in safety measures to prevent the group from thinking outside the box. They are told 'the bad guys will tell you xyz', they hear xyz and nod their heads,' oh yeah I'm on to you.' They never realize which side is doing the manipulating.

I think what GEML was saying is that if Ben continued his education, at a decent college, he would learn the art of debate which is far more effective than just preaching your opinion about what you believe to be true. It acknowledges the other person's point of view and when done well is rather disciplined and persuasive, while maintaining a certain level of respect.

[sometimesy]

I think what GEML was saying is that if Ben continued his education, at a decent college, he would learn the art of debate which is far more effective than just preaching your opinion about what you believe to be true. It acknowledges the other person's point of view and when done well is rather disciplined and persuasive, while maintaining a certain level of respect.

Yeah, I get that if he attended a college he would debate with people with more diverse life experience. No matter what his intention that would be a positive for him, so I agree. I just don't see him seeking that out. I agree with GEML also, that his social media 'fans' just reinforce him, most 20 year olds probably don't have such a large following. So I get what you and GEML are saying. I'm just suggesting his upbringing has put in place some safe guards to thwart the benefits of exposure to new ideas he might find on a campus. This is  just my opinion of course and I wish we could compel him to finish those last two years at a mainstream college and then hope I am wrong. :)

Edited August 4, 2015 by sometimesy

[kokapetl]

Take away Ben's hyper-Calvinism and he has the potential for being well-liked, if not a little dopey.

Maybe even just take away his Twitter account. He's not the first d list celeb to get into petty arguments and look foolish with a series of 140 character long messages.

[msblossom]

Yeah, I get that if he attended a college he would debate with people with more diverse life experience. No matter what his intention that would be a positive for him, so I agree. I just don't see him seeking that out. I agree with GEML also, that his social media 'fans' just reinforce him, most 20 year olds probably don't have such a large following. So I get what you and GEML are saying, I'm just suggesting his upbringing has put in place some safe guards to thwart the benefits of exposure to new ideas he might find on a campus. This is  just my opinion of course and I wish we could compel him to finish those last two years at a mainstream college and then hope I am wrong. :)

Ah, I see what you're saying and agree, Sometimesy. I feel that the longer Ben remains indebted to JB by accepting employment and living rent free in the mold house that even if he had aspirations at one time to continue his education at a mainstream college, he won't. That, and Jessa's got him by the balls and calls the shots. I think we'll see an even more extreme version of himself as time goes by, especially if they land that spinoff.

[Churchhoney]

He really is just parroting a lot of talking points. The "Christians are being persecuted and the persecution is growing" thing is all over, and no doubt it's all over any media and/or family conversations that Ben actually hears.

 

And even the most educated and conversationally skilled people who are among those initiating this idea and making the arguments as educated adult professionals often have a little trouble getting those arguments clearly articulated and ordered -- since they're obviously on shaky ground in an overwhelmingly Christian country. I mean, they have to argue as one of their major points that other Christians, such as the Pope and the United Church of Christ and so on, are among the leading forces persecuting Christians. And they don't say "persecuting conservative Christians" most of the time, because that doesn't sound grand and scary enough.

 

These are very hard arguments to understand and to make coherently. And Ben is not what you'd call the best-informed, brightest and most articulate guy. So after he parrots the first premise of the debate, he's in very very deep water and really has no idea what he's supposed to say next and certainly can't come up with a good response on his own.

 

A very solid education would help him a lot. Not only would he become a better parrot of propaganda initiated by others but he might even come up with some ideas of his own. But I get the feeling that he's been told by his dad and maybe by the Duggars, too, that his religious background has already acquainted him with the full truth and that despite his young age he's completely ready to take on the world's persecution as a warrior and argue against it on the level of Jonathan Edwards or somebody. (well, the Duggars wouldn't have mentioned Jonathan Edwards -- but Mike might have ...)  I keep wondering whether his problems in these arguments could alert him to the importance of learning more before he takes on the world. But I suppose that in the climate he's living in they're more likely just to reinforce the idea that the people disputing his points are Satan's minions who are best ignored. More's the pity, if that's the case.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Julia]

That, and Jessa's got him by the balls and calls the shots.

He's an able bodied young man married to a woman who can't divorce him in a culture where she's enjoined to treat his wishes as if they're commandments from God. On the other hand, there's menial work for his father-in-law and deferring to the guy who molested his wife as the annointed headship for his generation. JMO, if she's toting his nads around it's because he got tired of carrying them and she had room in her change purse.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Julia

[kokapetl]

He's an able bodied young man married to a woman who can't divorce him in a culture where she's enjoined to treat his wishes as if they're commandments from God. On the other hand, there's menial work for his father-in-law and deferring to the guy who molested his wife as the annointed headship for his generation. JMO, if she's toting his nads around it's because he got tired of carrying them and she had room in her change purse.

Jessa's never rely felt the need to keep sweet. If, in a moment of super stupidity, he raised the headship issue, I'd think she'd be ultra passive aggressive until she got the chance to talk to her father, and then Boss man JimBob would tell him to shut his mouth and do what Jessa wants, or else the sweet job and free housing will be no longer be provided.

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Is he saying that the term 'verbal persecution' is different from 'physical persecution' similar to 'physical execution' being different from 'verbal execution' in that 'verbal execution' cannot mean to kill?

I think he's saying that when someone disagrees with you, it's the same as being killed, tortured, maimed, or imprisoned for your religious beliefs. Says him from the comfort of a home behind his registry Mac Book.

[becca3891]

I don't see Ben as open for debate. He is open to having a discussion with someone who will reinforce what he already believes, then he will preach. The beauty of the cult is they have built in safety measures to prevent the group from thinking outside the box. They are told 'the bad guys will tell you xyz', they hear xyz and nod their heads,' oh yeah I'm on to you.' They never realize which side is doing the manipulating.

Yep. They are truly blinded in this regard and I speak from personal experience. I can also say from personal experience that the closed mind is 100 percent fear-based. It's scary to even consider that everything isn't as black and white as you were taught, and many who were brainwashed will never see the light for that reason. 

 

I think he's saying that when someone disagrees with you, it's the same as being killed, tortured, maimed, or imprisoned for your religious beliefs. Says him from the comfort of a home behind his registry Mac Book.

Wow, did Ben really talk about Christians being "verbally persecuted?" I don't keep up with their social media accounts. But I wouldn't be surprised. It reminds me of Stan Smith on American Dad, complaining about how hard it is to be a white, educated male. "Don't you just hate how now we only have most of the power and not all of the power?" Christians are still overwhelmingly catered to in this country. We can't even have a president who subscribes to another religion or none at all. Yet they think the world is ending if someone dares to suggest that the Ten Commandments shouldn't be plastered in a secular courthouse or that an ancient book riddled with sexism and violence shouldn't function is a lawbook in 2015. 

[Aja]

Wow, did Ben really talk about Christians being "verbally persecuted?"

Oh ya. Ya, he did. I want to say that he was responding to a comment on Twitter that asked him to clarify persecution and he was all "verbal persecution is different from physical persecution." We were all "Gee and all this time I thought people were just disagreeing with my opinion but NO! It turns out I was being VERBALLY PERSECUTED. As always, thanks Bin!" More meaning-free gibberish from King Parrot.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Aja

[Sew Sumi]

Congratulate me! I got banned by both of them yesterday. I guess my "verbal persecution" (ie. disagreement) was more than poor widdle Benessa could take. Boo fucking hoo. 

[Fuzzysox]

Binessa baby countdown and no registry yet? Tsk, tsk, Jessa out of sight out of mind you better get one soon.

[JoanArc]

Binessa baby countdown and no registry yet? Tsk, tsk, Jessa out of sight out of mind you better get one soon.

The baby needs Macbooks, and ipads, and a new iphone. It just does!

[Skittl1321]

So Jessa is going to get called out for NOT having a registry; but if she had one, she'd be called out for the ridiculous money grab?

[Sew Sumi]

I'm surprised that they're seemingly showing great restraint where posting a baby registry (or not, in their case) is concerned. 

[Bella]

So Jessa is going to get called out for NOT having a registry; but if she had one, she'd be called out for the ridiculous money grab?

Is it calling out or observing a change from previous Duggar norms? To me, not having a registry (or keeping it within the family/friends circle) is a positive step.

[sometimesy]

You posters think you are sooo smart. If I don't have gift registries and product placement how do I get STUFF hunh? - Jessa