Season 4 Discussion

[Blakeston]

They even referenced in a recent episode that if Bonnie moved out, Christy would be screwed, because she wouldn't be able to live in the building anymore.

Then they do an episode where Bonnie moves out, and there's no reference whatsoever to Bonnie losing her job, or Christy losing the apartment?

[illdoc]

27 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

They even referenced in a recent episode that if Bonnie moved out, Christy would be screwed, because she wouldn't be able to live in the building anymore.

Actually, they were talking about what would happen if Bonnie got bad tenant reviews (she would be fired and they all would have to move), not "what if Bonnie moved out"? Since the tenants never seem to visit the super (Bonnie) and only call her, Bonnie could live elsewhere, as long as she was reachable by phone to handle (or not, as she seems to do) problems. I think the apartment comes with the job, so as long as Bonnie has the job, she has the apartment.

[Canada]

Any apartment building I've lived in that provides an apartment for the manager expects that manager to be resident in the building, hence the term 'resident manager'.  They wouldn't provide an apartment just for the fun of it.  The manager is expected to live there and be on hand for emergencies or else what would be the point of providing them with an apartment?

[possibilities]

I think they should have mentioned how moving out would impact the job, but I figured they were just planning to lie about Bonnie not living there.

[indeed]

There have been a lot of references lately to Christy going out on dates and there was the Chris Pratt episode only a few episodes ago, so not buying into Christy being lonely/desperate/affection deprived that they've been trying to sell lately.  Of course, none of them have been winners, so she can be bummed about her prospects, but she hasn't been 'out of the game' for an alarmingly long time this season.

Then, yes, no mention of Bonnie trying to keep anyone from finding out she's not living in the apartment complex anymore because she is on probation and/or Christy needs her to keep her job so she has a roof over her head?  There should've been at least one job-related line in this episode, but no.  And with Bonnie's penchant for scheming, it seems a missed opportunity.

Doesn't the show mostly fail the Bechdel test on a regular basis? 

[TheOtherOne]

Damn. When this show is good, it's good. Some very funny stuff, but also gut-wrenching dramatic material, exactly the show's sweet spot. (Although there were a few moments when I thought Faris's performance could, or should, have been stronger.) I guess the ending was probably as much satisfaction as Christy could realistically get in those circumstances ...but it's hard not to wish she'd let Bonnie start punching people.

Much better episode than the last one. This show is so underrated.

[MommaBee]

Who played "Viceroy Lights?"  I would had sworn it was a Wahlberg but I don't think it was...

[kelslamu]

I liked this episode.  For a minute there I thought Viceroy Lights might share how he was drunk as well or something.  Not excusing anything as I just thought the show may go there.  I was all for Bonnie kicking his ass though.  

Found out it was Nathan Anderson who played Viceroy Lights.

Edited April 28, 2017 by kelslamu

[Blakeston]

I fully expected that Christy had never told Bonnie she'd been raped, considering how bad their relationship was at the time. It was kind of a nice surprise that we didn't have to go through the obligatory "why didn't you tell me" scene.

[theredhead77]

Wow. What a fantastic episode. I really liked that they had Viceroy Lights walk out, instead of trying to make amends. I'm choosing to think he wandered into that AA meeting not knowing Christy attended it and instead of violating her again (by being in her space) he removed himself from the situation and I hope he won't be back. I don't want to see him try to make amends, apologize, talk it out or see him somehow inserted into the show. It's a fantastic/terrible story line that needs to be on prime-time outside of SVU but it's Christy's story, not his.

[hnygrl]

I liked this one.

It showed the realities of sobriety really well. 

Just because you've been sober 30 or 40 years means nothing if you don't change your life and the way you handle conflict, stress, negative emotions, etc. One really bad day and boom. 40 years of sobriety out the window.

In my head, Viceroy Lights was horrified. Just. Completely horrified.

"Oh my LORD. So THAT'S what happened that night!!!!" In my head, he had no clue. Just woke up hung over and feeling crappy and smelling like Christy and sex and wondering "what the hell happened?" I'm not excusing him, but like someone already said, it was Christy's story, not his.

Well done, show. What other show makes you laugh and  cry in the same episode?

[wendyg]

Terrific episode.

Did anyone else think that the salesperson at the end looked (and sounded) like Debra Jo Rupp? I couldn't find a credit for the character and wonder if it's something that got cut for time.

ETA: not Debra Jo Rupp - Yeardley Smith. She had a part in Dharma and Greg, so it's entirely possible.

Edited April 30, 2017 by wendyg

[MaryMitch]

I kept thinking "That cricket is Christy's hedge", and I hoped that Christy wouldn't fall off the wagon. Then the other plot point hit and I'm amazed and happy that she didn't.

[iMonrey]

This episode was kind of strange, like the writers changed their minds mid-way on what it was about. It started out about Marjorie and everyone worrying about her and trying to find a substitute in Bonnie then all of a sudden this past rape thing with Christie comes out of nowhere and the whole episode is suddenly about that. Don't get me wrong the message was a powerful one but it's like two different episodes got stitched together. I never really felt like there was any resolution with the Marjorie story and what should have been a powerful story for Christie didn't begin until the half-way mark.

[MissLucas]

Christy really broke my heart in that scene with the demolished living room. That said at first when she got so spooked I thought the guy was Violet's father but  we never got a reaction shot by Bonnie (who would have known him) so we will probably never see him. Glad Jill's still a foster-mom and I loved Wendy's: 'And that's called a topiary'. But yeah, the sudden shift from Marjorie to Christy was a bit jarring. Still a great episode.

[Poohbear617]

As someone who just got their 5 year chip 2 weeks ago..this story was perfect. Overy the last 5 years I have met and talked with so many women that share Christy's story.  And just like Christy they blamed themselves and I blamed myself for my assault as well. We have all said "if I was not drunk I could have....." or " I  should have known..etc". For the last few years my home group is all women only and it helps us to be more open, but its.sad as well. We have been seeing younger and younger girls who have been attacked, and girls in recovery who not even old enough to purchase alcohol and are in AA at only 17 years old. We are constantly warning our younger and newer members to be aware of 13 steppers  and just because a guy may be your boyfriend..no still means no. The hardest ones are when the attacker is a family member (like mine was)..then you are dealing with assault and guilt but the shame/taboo of this situation.

As for the discussion about Marjorie'a story being dropped.  I think Marjorie needed a break from the whiny calls from jill.and wendy, but knowing Christy was in real crisis helped her to dive right back in and let her adjust her focus. My sponsor has 40 years in but there are times when she needs the help rather than giving it...always remember to keep coming back it works if you work it, support each other and be grateful and take it 1 day at a time.

[theatremouse]

I did not like this episode at all. It was well acted but every beat of it was completely predictable.

[Blakeston]

18 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I did not like this episode at all. It was well acted but every beat of it was completely predictable.

I thought this was probably the least predictable episode they've ever done. After the first part of the episode dealt with Marjorie's sponsor, I never, ever would have guessed that it would end with Christy confronting her rapist.

Even after we found out who "Viceroy Lights" was, I would have guessed that she would confront him directly, as opposed to making amends to the women who she could have helped if she'd reported him to the police.

[possibilities]

I was terrified they were going to do something to try to make us sympathize with the rapist, or to make Christy feel guilty for confronting him the way she did. I was glad they just had him walk out. I am still worried they plan to bring him back, and I hope they don't.

People who offend need to work on their issues and I am all for people who truly do that being able to have a new life. But I am tired of making that the story at the expense of the healing and empowerment of the people they harmed. We already have more than enough real life stories where rapists are "humanized" and forgiven and let off the hook. It's time to give the other side a more respectful treatment and I hope this show sticks with it.

I thought Christy and Bonnie bringing flowers to Marjorie, and Christy genuinely putting Marjorie first and not confiding in her on that phone call they had, was part of why Marjorie was able to show up to help later on. I think it helps to know that the people who lean on you care about you, and are making an effort to not take more than you can give. It makes being there much easier when it's really needed.

I like crickets, though. I had one in my apartment for months this fall and winter and I enjoyed the music.

[iMonrey]

Missie Pyle is great in everything she does, she's been on so many shows. I don't think I was aware of the foster girl's situation until this episode, and that she would likely go back to her mother once she gets out of rehab. This isn't going to go well for Jill. Wendy talking about getting it on at funerals was pretty funny. I'm so over the whole Bonnie/Adam thing though.

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Missie Pyle is great in everything she does, she's been on so many shows.

I recognized her only from an episode of Major Crimes and Deidra and Laney Rob a Train, but I just looked her up on IMDb, and, wow, you're right - she has over 150 credits to her name.

[MissLucas]

I liked the Bra troll (as I'm not watching The Simpsons I had to look Yeardley Smith up first thinking she was Debra Jo Rupp). The vet was also cool but somehow I couldn't help wondering if we're about to meet Bonnie's new love interest once Fichtner leaves the show.

[Canada]

Was there an episode this past week??  For some reason, my PVR recorded an episode of The Middle, which I never watch.  So I think I might have missed it.  :(

[jewel21]

Yes. Bonnie watches Adam's dog while Adam and his ex go to Hawaii for a funeral.

[Canada]

Well, if it was an Adam episode, no great loss!!  Did they break up yet? 

[MissLucas]

It wasn't an Adam episode and nope they did not break up. Bonnie taking care of Adam's dog was the B-plot. The main focus was on Christie and Jill who got into an interesting conflict about the mother of Jill's foster teen. Christie wanted to help the mother get sober and back on track - obviously Jill wasn't feeling too enthusiastic about that.

Edited May 7, 2017 by MissLucas

[Janimo]

Did anyone else wonder if Emily (the foster child) and Yeardley Smith (bra salesgirl) are related in "real life." IMO, they resembled one another and sorta had the same kind of voice.

[hnygrl]

I honestly expected the dog to die on Bonnie's watch since he's allegedly hella old, but if that doggie is older than say 3 or 4? Then I don't know what...

Christie wants to help Emily's mom, but Emily's mom just wants out of rehab so she can start using again.  I honestly hope this was a one-time-plot-device because I'd hate to see Emily go back to that woman the way she is right now.

Honestly?

Didn't care for this one all that much.

[DXD526]

I hope we don't see Emily's mom again. It was interesting to show where Emily came from, but that's enough. It won't be believable if she pulls herself together in an episode or two and wants her kid back, because that woman was a mess. She was clearly still thinking like an addict and has a long road ahead; that is, if she really wants to clean up, which right now she doesn't. 

[MaryMitch]

It was nice to see Christy with a win! I hope the relationship with her uncle turns out to be good for her. It was interesting that she found tax law so compelling; she can make a LOT more money in tax law than as a public defender... oh, well, as she said, she's not even in law school yet.

I wonder why Bonnie owes so much in taxes? I find it hard to believe in 20 years she had any years where she actually earned enough money to owe ANY taxes, much less $10K (even with interest). Although, with the cost of apartments in the Los Angeles area, that alone could be enough. 

[SanDiegoInExile]

11 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

I wonder why Bonnie owes so much in taxes? I find it hard to believe in 20 years she had any years where she actually earned enough money to owe ANY taxes, much less $10K (even with interest). Although, with the cost of apartments in the Los Angeles area, that alone could be enough. 

The show is set in Santa Rosa, which is in northern CA, about 425 miles north of LA (and 55 miles north of San Francisco).   Arguably,  though, housing prices may be higher in Sonoma County.  There is way less housing inventory for sure.  Bonnie may have spent some time in LA, but the gang lives in Santa Rosa.  We do know that Bonnie also lived in Chico, which is vastly more affordable (and a good 3-4 hour drive into the interior of CA)  Christy's now-dead father raised his family and owned his auto shop in Chico. 

[theatremouse]

11 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

I wonder why Bonnie owes so much in taxes? I find it hard to believe in 20 years she had any years where she actually earned enough money to owe ANY taxes, much less $10K (even with interest). Although, with the cost of apartments in the Los Angeles area, that alone could be enough. 

This episode gave me the impression the tax bill was just for the three years she'd be living rent-free as building manager. The issue being that the free apartment counts as income, so whatever the market value rent would be for three years is how much income she failed to report and thus owed taxes on.

For the 18 years she didn't file at all, I don't really have a problem believing she didn't make enough to file since she didn't seem to have consistent employment. And it was strongly implied she was in jail part of the time. So it was likely more of a "you must explain why you didn't file because we don't believe there's a good reason" and then she'd need to prove she was actually that not-so-much-employed for that long. It's suspicious as fuck, but if everything she did were under the table and/or not actually making enough to owe, it's possible she didn't actually owe during a number of those years, but if she worked, in theory she's still supposed to have filed. So she can be in trouble for not doing it, even if the years in question she didn't owe anything. That said this whole episode took a bunch of liberties with everything and is better off being vague because the more they attempt to explain the less plausible it becomes.

[MissLucas]

That was a great episode. It took me a while to recover from 'ungrateful giraffe' (the reaction shots of all the other ladies were price-less) and just when I had along came Wendy with her mysterious invention. I also liked Christy no longer giving a damn about Bonnie's issues and simply call her uncle and arrange a meeting. Ray looks like an interesting addition to the cast and I hope he'll stick around for a while - so we get more plots about Christy and her struggles to become a lawyer.

[theatremouse]

12 hours ago, stewedsquash said:

I thought she had an $18,000 tax bill? The set up was one of those "around $10,000" then Christie and Adam said something and then Bonnie said "Okay, $18,000" as the amount being owed. 

That is indeed what transpired.

[galaxychaser]

Well the actress that plays Jill is pregnant in real life. I think Jill will be pregnant in the show. But who will play daddy?

[possibilities]

Maybe she'll go back to the clinic and use an anonymous donor.

[mammaM]

I'm betting the show will go the "big coat, bigger pocketbook" route

[Tenarife60]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 11:54 PM, SanDiegoInExile said:

The show is set in Santa Rosa, which is in northern CA, about 425 miles north of LA (and 55 miles north of San Francisco).   Arguably,  though, housing prices may be higher in Sonoma County.  There is way less housing inventory for sure.  Bonnie may have spent some time in LA, but the gang lives in Santa Rosa.  We do know that Bonnie also lived in Chico, which is vastly more affordable (and a good 3-4 hour drive into the interior of CA)  Christy's now-dead father raised his family and owned his auto shop in Chico. 

That's interesting.  I didn't know that. I too thought they lived in Los Angeles. In tonight's repeat Violet came back from her job in Lake Tahoe and they were telling her she needed to get a job, so I was wondering how she gets around with no car.  I don't think I've seen any of them take public transportation.  Violet did like what one of my cousin's always does, instead of getting a job she found another man to move in with. 

[Tenarife60]

It was strange Bonnie's half-brother wasn't biracial or light-skinned, but black.  I thought he was going to say he was adopted but then he said he was their mother's son.  I hope they bring him back next season.  He and Bonnie's scenes together were funny.

[Tenarife60]

On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 10:33 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

My only quibble with the show would be the end when Bonnie went to her mother's grave. It seemed like it was supposed to be fairly recently after her passing, but the ground did not looked disturbed at all, as if the grave had been there for quite some time. 

I didn't even notice that, LOL, but that's true.  This episode was reran tonight.  Like others have posted I hope they have Bonnie's brother back on this season.

[ButterQueen]

On 2/2/2017 at 10:37 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I thought the pot was going to be the thing to either end or progress the relationship.  Yeah it's one thing to know your partner drinks and occasionally smokes a little dope but when it starts to become an issue like it's becoming it's time to cut and run.

Still funny episode.  The skipping and the riding on the toy horses.   That was fun.

I loved this episode so much.  Bonnie teaching Christy to skip was gold.

Adam needs to go.  He ruins the show for me.

[funky-rat]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 2:09 PM, GussieK said:

As I understand it, AA is for the addicts.  Al Anon is for the families.  Christy and Bonnie are in AA. 

I'm late to the party (I didn't start on this show until last fall), but this is correct.  Al-Anon was founded by the wife of the founder (well, the major founder - there were two) of AA.  Eons ago, wives went to AA meetings, but the focus is on the alcoholic, and they needed their own space to discuss their unique challenges.  It also allows the people in AA to not worry about their spouses sitting in the room.  There is also Ala-Teen specifically for children of alcoholics.  My husband is in AA and I am in Al-Anon.

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 8:17 PM, Blakeston said:

But with Christy not knowing for sure if Nick was aware of his aunt being in AA, she shouldn't have said anything about it in front of him.

They teach about this early on in the program.  You should respect someone's anonymity - especially if you don't know if they're OK with people knowing, but there will be times when you may slip and "out" someone.  You then just apologize to the person and let them know you accidentally outed them.  Most of the time, no one cares.  There's not quite the stigma now that there used to be with being in the groups.  I've told people I'm in the program.  So has my husband.  And with someone being in it as long as Marjorie has, and that she's a big sponsor of people, I think it's understood her family knows.  Most people I know would only get upset if you talk about what they say in the meeting, etc.  That's private.  But still, I do know of at least one person who doesn't want anyone to know she's in the program, and I do not tell anyone.

[sugarbaker design]

21 hours ago, funky-rat said:

As I understand it, AA is for the addicts.  Al Anon is for the families.  Christy and Bonnie are in AA. 

Hate to nitpick, buuuuuuuuuuuut...AA is Alcoholics Anonymous, NA is for Narcotics Anonymous.  AA is for people suffering from alcoholism, but doesn't exclude alcoholics who suffer from other addictions, in addition to their alcoholism.  According to AA traditions 'the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking'.  Christy and Bonnie (and all the other girls) always identify as an alcoholic/addict in the meeting scenes.

Edited March 28, 2018 by sugarbaker design

[funky-rat]

23 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Hate to nitpick, buuuuuuuuuuuut...AA is Alcoholics Anonymous, NA is for Narcotics Anonymous.  AA is for people suffering from alcoholism, but doesn't exclude alcoholics who suffer from other addictions, in addition to their alcoholism.  According to AA traditions 'the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking'.  Christy and Bonnie (and all the other girls) always identify as an alcoholic/addict in the meeting scenes.

I'm not the one who said that - I was responding to that person, but I got tagged in it for some reason.  However, my husband is in AA, and they do not turn away addicts because there are extremely few Narcotics Anonymous meetings in rural areas (and we live in a rural area - there's only one in a 30 mile radius, and that's a tough commute for many here).  Likewise, I'm in Al-Anon, and we don't turn away families of addicts because there are even fewer Nar-Anon (The Al-Anon of Narcotics Anonymous - for families) meetings in many areas.  There aren't any in a 50 mile radius of where we are.  If you live in larger cities or in less rural areas, you have more options.  I've been to some open AA meetings, and they just refer to themselves as cross-addicts, because many drug addicts also have/had a problem with alcohol, or started there.

[sugarbaker design]

1 minute ago, funky-rat said:

I'm not the one who said that

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you did.

1 minute ago, funky-rat said:

If you live in larger cities or in less rural areas, you have more options.

So true.

[funky-rat]

No need to apologize.

This is what Bill W (founder) had to say about drug addicts coming to AA:   "We cannot give A.A. membership to nonalcoholic narcotics addicts. But, like anyone else, they should be able to attend certain open A.A. meetings, provided, of course, that the groups themselves are willing."
 

So in not so many words, they can't call themselves a "member" of AA, and as such, would likely not be able to get milestone chips, etc, but as long as no one objects, they are welcome, and can learn from the program.  And most drug addicts I come across start with alcohol anyway, so that shoots down those barriers for them.  You do get meetings with a lot of old timers who don't want addicts there, but there are infinitely more AA meetings than Al-Anon or any other type (even in our rural area), so they can always try another one.  Our Al-Anon group does outreach once a month with the families of people in the local rehab center, and many say they tried a meeting and didn't feel welcome for a number of reasons (old timers, they were parents/spouse of an addict, etc) and we always encourage them to try another group.  It took my husband some time before he found groups he fit well with, and there's no shame in that.