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Season 4 Discussion

ShellSeeker

By ShellSeeker
in Mom [V]

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SanDiegoInExile

SanDiegoInExile

2 hours ago, Michel said:

Only thing is . . . what's meant by "rounding down," and do women do that?

They are talking about sexual conquests/liaisons/hookups.

The standard joke is that a woman who has slept with a dozen men in her life will "round down" the number, perhaps to four or five.  The thinking is that it makes them seem less slutty (?) and more desirable (?) to a future mate.  Men, on the other hand, stereotypically, round up the number of women in their life, to "impress" other guys with their prowess.

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Michel
Michel

No, I think it's time to pull the plug on bashing Adam and blaming him for everything under the sun.  He didn't mean for this to happen.  He even told Christy he hid the cookies because he didn't want

Poohbear617
Poohbear617

As someone who just got their 5 year chip 2 weeks ago..this story was perfect. Overy the last 5 years I have met and talked with so many women that share Christy's story.  And just like Christy they b

Ina123
Ina123

Funniest line of the episode was the wise crack about Marjorie's hair style being so Ben Franklin.

12catcrazy

12catcrazy

Oh my God, the show was half an hour of tasteless vulgarity but I have to admit that I did plenty of laughing while cringing at the same time.  

I grew up with an alcoholic mother (as was most of her family) and I saw stuff that made last night's show look very tame in comparison.  What I really liked was how Bonnie & Christy saw how awful drunken excess looks to the hapless sober people who have to be there to watch it.  

Agreed that Adam's drinking/pot smoking is going to become an issue with him and Bonnie.  I'm actually looking forward to seeing how the show is going to handle this.  It really is a big problem when one person is trying to stay sober, yet involved with a partner who isn't sober and who has a problem but isn't ready to admit it.   And I think that Adam DOES have a substance abuse problem but is in denial about it.   It's going to be interesting when Bonnie finally confronts him and the question is going to be whether he is going to choose her or his drinking/pot smoking/partying lifestyle.  

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hnygrl

hnygrl

34 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

  And I think that Adam DOES have a substance abuse problem but is in denial about it.   It's going to be interesting when Bonnie finally confronts him and the question is going to be whether he is going to choose her or his drinking/pot smoking/partying lifestyle.  

Oh you know how it's gonna be. I could write the stuff myself. She'll break up with him completely because reasons...and go to a meeting as per usual, blah blah blah anybody else wanna share? In rolls Adam...gasp mumbles from the audience..."I'm Adam, and I'm an alcoholic...." Fade to black.

They're making him a series regular so he's got to stop drinking/using. GOT to. This visit may have been the straw that broke the camel's back for the ladies. It'll probably be the "girls" who tell Bonnie her guy is an alcoholic...and then...like a lightbulb turning on over her head...she'll "see" it.

Like you said...GET THERE already. Having her boyfriend be an alcoholic/addict when she's sober is irritating the hell out of me. I didn't enjoy last night at all. Too many bad childhood/adolescent memories...that will never be funny to me...

  • Love 6
iMonrey

iMonrey

Quote

 Why are they making Adam so unlikeable? I'm starting to think he's an alcoholic too and I'm not sure if this is where the story is going, but it seems like a lot of temptation for both Bonnie and Christy.

Yup. Adam and Bonnie are both toxic for each other. This isn't going to end well; the best we can hope for is an amicable split. That said, Bradley Whitford and Nicole Sullivan were a hoot.

  • Love 3
Michel

Michel

12 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I thought it was very inconsiderate of Adam to invite his friends into Bonnie and Christy's home. He didn't warn Bonnie and Christy ahead of time about the couple's alcohol consumption, only after they were well on their way to getting plastered, he was like, "oh yeah, there's not enough wine in Napa for those two". He should have invited them to his place so that Bonnie would have had the option to leave when the drinking got out of hand.

I suspect that maybe even Adam didn't expect that it was going to get that out of hand.  Though he at least he got a semi-karmic moment what with happened to Bonnie and Christy and getting his eyes opened to Mitch.

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MissLucas

MissLucas

This was a bit allover the place. I had the impression some of the drunk shenanigans were written to allow the two guest stars to show off their comedy chops but the context made it also cringe worthy. I guess what ultimately made it work (but just barely) was that the setting was also used to make Bonnie and Christy experience what they had put others through. It came all together in the end - like a very shaky house of cards.

I like William Fichtner and I like Adam when he's sober - so I hope this season does not end in more heartbreak for Bonnie. And yes, I would also like to see some happiness for Christy.

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SanDiegoInExile

SanDiegoInExile

(edited)
8 hours ago, hnygrl said:

They're making him a series regular so he's got to stop drinking/using. GOT to. This visit may have been the straw that broke the camel's back for the ladies. It'll probably be the "girls" who tell Bonnie her guy is an alcoholic...and then...like a lightbulb turning on over her head...she'll "see" it.

Being a series regular has not proven to be a long-lasting gig. Ask the restaurant crew, the kids, and the ex- how that works.

I 100% disagree that the producers will follow the trite sitcom-y approach.  I think it's far more likely that:

  • Bonnie will marry him and he will get a stunt gig out of town, putting the story on 'pause'
  • His drunken/drugged out existence will lead to some type of accident that puts SOMEONE else in a wheelchair
  • His drunken/drugged out existence will kill him, and maybe one of the other cast members
  • Christy will go on a binge with him and hookup with him
  • Jill will go on a binge and move him into her mansion.

If they do go the soapy sappy route and he joins AA, it will end up being faked/phony and that will force Bonnie to toss him.

Edited by SanDiegoInExile
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wendyg

wendyg

Bradley Whitford was astonishing, though.

I don't think the show will have Adam realize he's an alcoholic; they played that card several times in earlier seasons, and not everyone who is a heavy drinker is an alcoholic. One of the things I find interesting in this show is the spectrum it explores, like having Octavia Spencer's character come back and believe she can drink wine in moderation. Maybe she can, maybe she can't; presumably the show will come back to her at some point and we'll see how it's gone. The sober alcoholics I've known are often less certain about anyone else's situation than outsiders are, I think because they've seen a broad spectrum and know individual reactions are highly variable. As much as it's easy to say Adam is a jackass about this, I think it's also true that he can't be in a relationship with someone where he's constantly walking on eggs in case he sets them off. Bonnie's sobriety is *her* problem, not his, and it has to stay that way because the instant she starts being able to blame him for her problems it all goes out the window.

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LADreamr

LADreamr

Bonnie has to dump this POS already. He adds nothing to her life, is selfish and completely disrespectful about the most difficult part of her life, and doesn't seem to give a crap. It's all about him, all the damn time.  Please move on to someone more worthy!

The Josh and CJ reunion was nice to see, though. Brad and Allison still have great chemistry. 

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indeed

indeed

But he's not constantly walking on eggshells, not even occasionally.  His friends were major drunks AND they were smoking pot AND it was many hours of this behavior.  Adam shouldnt have to handle Bonnie and Christy with kid gloves, but he should be somewhat considerate every blue moon or so.  He wasn't considerate when Christy the mother (albeit the going way overboard at the time mother) didn't want him drinking too much in front of her son in her own home, either, and now he's dismissive again.  It's showing that Bonnie and Christy are pretty secure in their sobriety, but Adam comes off as a jerk sometimes.  So, it seems like something's gotta give soon (I like the actor and would like for him to stick around).

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chocolatine

chocolatine

On 1/6/2017 at 0:09 PM, Michel said:

I suspect that maybe even Adam didn't expect that it was going to get that out of hand.  Though he at least he got a semi-karmic moment what with happened to Bonnie and Christy and getting his eyes opened to Mitch.

But he didn't seem surprised about how much they drank. It sounded like drinking themselves into oblivion is what the three of them do when they get together.

I'll reiterate what I said a few weeks ago, this season is revolving too much around Adam, and it's adding insult to injury that he's an inconsiderate jerk most of the time.

  • Love 3
Sarahsmile416

Sarahsmile416

On 1/6/2017 at 2:23 AM, chocolatine said:

I thought it was very inconsiderate of Adam to invite his friends into Bonnie and Christy's home. He didn't warn Bonnie and Christy ahead of time about the couple's alcohol consumption, only after they were well on their way to getting plastered, he was like, "oh yeah, there's not enough wine in Napa for those two". He should have invited them to his place so that Bonnie would have had the option to leave when the drinking got out of hand.

Not just the alcohol, but also the pot. 

I am so over Adam at this point. 

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DXD526

DXD526

Quote

The Josh and CJ reunion was nice to see, though. Brad and Allison still have great chemistry. 

I was wondering if anyone would pick up on the West Wing connection. Last season we got a CJ/Toby reunion, and now it's CJ/Josh. Who's next? Sam? Prez Bartlet?

It seemed obvious that Adam knew his friends were total waste products, yet couldn't wait for Bonnie to meet them. It appeared he was genuinely surprised at his friend's inappropriate grabbiness, but that doesn't excuse his cluelessness at inviting them in the first place. Things have got to come to a head in Adam and Bonnie's relationship, and I hope a showdown happens soon. There's been enough set-up, already.

Blakeston

Blakeston

I'll say this for Adam - as much as he has some major issues, I don't think he's any worse than Bonnie. She stole his wheelchair and kept it away from him. She copied his handicap placard so that she could use it for herself. And she's been wildly irrational and spiteful at times.

He should be more considerate with his drinking, but if he's endangering her sobriety, it's up to her to say something about it. The only time we saw anyone confront him about his use of substances was when Christy went berserk because he drank in front of Roscoe - and there was no indication that she'd ever previously asked him not to do that. And we don't know if he's ever done it again.

Whether he's an alcoholic or not is almost besides the point when it comes to their relationship.  Bonnie's been in AA for years; she has to know that it's bad for her to be around someone who binge drinks. If he's that oblivious, she needs to speak up for herself.

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SunnyBeBe

SunnyBeBe

(edited)

I agree Blakeson.  I like Adam, but, feel as if someone with his lifestyle isn't well matched for an alcoholic who is in recovery. I suppose that Bonnie doesn't have that insight yet.   I mean, just think about it.  For me, I wouldn't be able to enjoy having several drinks while boyfriend and his daughter have soda.  And who wants to get high on pot, while your lover is sober?  I just don't get it.  I recall the episode they had where Bonnie was upset about him having to get high to have sex.  Well.....I get how Adam might enjoy it, but, if your lover is not also partaking, then, how can it get you that excited?  To ME, it's a mutual thing and without that, it seems odd.   For those who also watch This Is Us, I think that how would I enjoy having a plate of pasta with extra sauce and huge high calories desert, if my date is having salmon with steamed veggies?  There's nothing really wrong with it, but, how does it make you feel? Maybe, it's a guy thing and I'm not a guy, but, where is the empathy?

To me, it's just common courtesy to hold off on the booze and weed.  If you have the chance with some friends a few times a year, then so be it, but otherwise, I just don't see how I would feel comfortable with it. 

I love this show. My absolute favorite comedy. In fact, I don't think there is any other comedy that competes with the writing on this one.  GREAT cast too.  Just love it. 

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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MaryMitch

MaryMitch

29 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

To me, it's just common courtesy to hold off on the booze and weed.  If you have the chance with some friends a few times a year, then so be it, but otherwise, I just don't see how I would feel comfortable with it.

I also felt that way with Regina (Octavia Spencer's character), who ordered wine when eating with the ladies in the diner. It just seems  passive/aggressive not to support your friends or significant other when you know how difficult it is for them to stay away from booze and drugs. It's like blowing cigarette smoke into the face of someone who has quit smoking.

Bastet

Bastet

(edited)
Quote

For me, I wouldn't be able to enjoy having several drinks while boyfriend and his daughter have soda.  And who wants to get high on pot, while your lover is sober?  I just don't get it.  ... I think that how would I enjoy having a plate of pasta with extra sauce and huge high calories desert, if my date is having salmon with steamed veggies?  There's nothing really wrong with it, but, how does it make you feel? Maybe, it's a guy thing and I'm not a guy, but, where is the empathy?

To me, it's just common courtesy to hold off on the booze and weed.  If you have the chance with some friends a few times a year, then so be it, but otherwise, I just don't see how I would feel comfortable with it.

I don't consider myself lacking in empathy, but I certainly wouldn't forevermore skip my pasta and wine just because my dining companion stuck to steamed vegetables and water.  They've adjusted their lifestyle to accommodate an issue, as they should -- the rest of the world doesn't have to make similar adjustments, because the rest of the world doesn't have the same issue.  Otherwise, by that logic, if you lived with someone who abstained from alcohol, or was on a strict diet, you couldn't eat and drink what you wanted in your own home?

Bonnie has to decide whether she can or cannot be around Adam when he's drinking or smoking pot; I know several recovering addicts who have no problem being around the substance at issue, but they've all been in recovery, steadily, for a long time; Bonnie's situation is more tenuous because of the relapse.  If she decides she can't, then he has to decide whether to never drink or smoke pot when with her, or they go their separate ways.  Either choice would be reasonable.  This obviously has to come to a head somehow, with how much they've been showing it.  I'm just not sure which story line they're leading up to.

Edited by Bastet
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SunnyBeBe

SunnyBeBe

(edited)

I think it's different when you are talking about an acquaintance, colleague or significant other.  I may not be that in tune with what my dining companion is having, unless, we are in a serious relationship.  Then, my sensitivities are more in tune and I care more about their feelings and struggles.  And perhaps, I am different, because if my spouse, child or sibling struggled with a life threatening condition, then, even in my own home, I wouldn't keep alcohol, pot and/or brownies around. lol  Even if I had no issue with it.  That's just my take on it. 

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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Bastet

Bastet

(edited)

I'm sure my perspective is skewed, because the people I know in this situation (where a recovering addict is living with or otherwise closely involved with someone who uses but isn't addicted to the substance in question) happen to all handle this the same general way, and all are long into their recovery, so I don't have a representative sample in real life, but none of them operate that way -- the non-addicts are not expected to go without something it's perfectly fine for them to ingest, especially in their own home.  In fact, the addicts are firm that wouldn't be a good way for them to live, because it creates something of a false world and they need to function in the real one.  But I never saw what things were like in the beginning, when I'd imagine the bar/medicine cabinet was cleared out for a while.

I think, like most things, it depends the individual circumstance.  My objection is to the idea it's automatically and always improper and thus Adam should not drink or smoke pot while with Bonnie -- because Bonnie hasn't asked that of him.  She has to decide what she needs from him, and then, if she determines that it jeopardizes her recovery for him to imbibe when he's with her, he'll have to decide how to proceed.  But we haven't seen any of that yet.  Given the sharp way the show has handled the myriad issues surrounding addiction, I'm hopeful this will be done well, too, and I'm curious to see which way they go with it.  I just disagree with blanket proclamations on how the loved ones of recovering addicts should adjust their own habits.  I know how my several friends/colleagues handle similar situations, and I think I know what I would do, but there are a lot of paths out there and I want to see which one the show decides to take Bonnie and Adam down.  Because they're clearly setting up a storyline, and I'd kind of like them to get to it already.

Edited by Bastet
chocolatine

chocolatine

(edited)

I don't think anyone would have a problem if Adam had one or two drinks around Bonnie and Christy every now and then. The problem is that he invited people into Bonnie's home who he knows are binge drinkers, gave Bonnie and Christy no advance warning, and expected them to just deal with two drunk strangers in their home. A simple "my friends tend to drink too much and get rowdy, would that be OK with you guys?" ahead of the visit would have gone a long way. They may very well have still said yes, but at least it would have been their choice.

Edited by chocolatine
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hnygrl

hnygrl

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

I don't think anyone would have a problem if Adam had one or two drinks around Bonnie and Christy every now and then.

My point exactly. Adam's having a joint now and then, or a few beers while watching the game, or wine with dinner is no big deal. Bonnie can handle that. But. 

Adam tends to get falling-out-of-his-wheelchair wasted. Not just drunk or high, but EFFED UP. He gets EFFED UP a lot. A whole lot. You never see him have a beer. Oh no, not our Adam. He has several six packs. You never see him smoke a joint, you see him wasted. Too many to count.

That's my beef with this relationship. And with Adam. And why I think he has a substance abuse problem. Because it's never just the one. or the three. But always ends up being the twelve or the fifteen...

And he acts like his alcoholic/addict girlfriend/lover should be okay with this when a "regular" woman would kick his ass to the curb for his boorish behavior when he's drunk/high. She's an alcoholic so she should get over it and accept that her lover drinks and gets high "sometimes" when a "regular" girl would be pissed at how OFTEN he over indulges. 

Double standard. If she wasn't in AA he would ASK HER if she minds if he drinks. Did he ever even ask her? Anybody remember?

  • Love 3
possibilities

possibilities

What I find most interesting about the situation is that Bonnie and Christy didn't even seem to be slightly tempted at any point. They were just disgusted and annoyed, the way most people would be if their guests were getting trashed and groping them, being obnoxious and generally rude as hell.

I have never been around adults past college age who got as trashed as Adam and his friends, so it seemed to me like extraordinarily rude behavior even without the whole "hosts are sober addicts" element. From a show perspective, I liked that it made Bonnie and Christy see how they apparently looked during their own binging days.

Even if Bonnie and Christy had zero history with addiction, it would have been terrible behavior according to my way of thinking. But it gave us a lot of insight, from a show perspective.

  • Love 4
Canada

Canada

43 minutes ago, possibilities said:

What I find most interesting about the situation is that Bonnie and Christy didn't even seem to be slightly tempted at any point. They were just disgusted and annoyed, the way most people would be if their guests were getting trashed and groping them, being obnoxious and generally rude as hell.

I have never been around adults past college age who got as trashed as Adam and his friends, so it seemed to me like extraordinarily rude behavior even without the whole "hosts are sober addicts" element. From a show perspective, I liked that it made Bonnie and Christy see how they apparently looked during their own binging days.

Even if Bonnie and Christy had zero history with addiction, it would have been terrible behavior according to my way of thinking. But it gave us a lot of insight, from a show perspective.

Exactly!  It was obnoxious behaviour, in a home where you are a guest, regardless of whether the hosts are addicts or not.  Unless I missed an episode, that's not Adam's home. 

  • Love 6
CarolMK

CarolMK

This past episode reminded me of how some of our neighbors would act when we would get together with them at our semi-annual neighborhood parties. There were always a few who got really wasted, and what bothered me and my husband the most was that we all had our kids with us . We finally decided we were done with the whole group after about 5 years of this, when somebody's 17 year old son got drunk enough that the police were called and he was taken to the hospital along with his parents (who had no idea what was going on- and thankfully, since our kids were older at that point, they didn't attend). Yet when we quit the group, we were seen as the snobby/non-fun neighbors, but that kind of raucous drunken behavior really bothered me. I'd see men making passes at other people's wives, just like Adam's friend did to Bonnie. If it had happened to me, my husband might have punched the guy in the nose. 

I really think Bonnie needs to break up with Adam. Either that, or get him into meetings with her, because his behavior has gotten way out of control. She still doesn't seem to be seeing it, but I wonder if Christy has and just isn't letting her feelings be known. If the other women in their group had seen that, they'd be having an intervention with Bonnie to have Adam get the hell out of her house ASAP.

  • Love 5
chocolatine

chocolatine

25 minutes ago, CarolMK said:

This past episode reminded me of how some of our neighbors would act when we would get together with them at our semi-annual neighborhood parties. There were always a few who got really wasted, and what bothered me and my husband the most was that we all had our kids with us . We finally decided we were done with the whole group after about 5 years of this, when somebody's 17 year old son got drunk enough that the police were called and he was taken to the hospital along with his parents (who had no idea what was going on- and thankfully, since our kids were older at that point, they didn't attend). Yet when we quit the group, we were seen as the snobby/non-fun neighbors, but that kind of raucous drunken behavior really bothered me.

I've gotten a similar reaction when I told a friend that her drinking had gotten out of hand (she got drunk at a professional networking event she was attending as my guest and embarrassed me in front of people I was trying to impress). A lot of binge-drinkers get very defensive when called on their behavior and try to turn it around on the other person being uptight/judgmental.

  • Love 3
Big Mother

Big Mother

That was a sad episode. I've had many miscarriages myself and felt for Jill. However... A FOSTER MOM? that is WAY WORSE than giving birth to a new baby. These kids come with a lot of baggage and need a stable, giving, loving mom, not a self-involved narcissistic person who just wants a baby to dress up and be loved back. She'd need a LOT of training before she can before a foster mom.

  • Love 5
hnygrl

hnygrl

Yep. You knew what was gonna happen the moment she announced her pregnancy. First thought was "she's gonna miscarry - just watch..."

Good episode. I'm glad this character's getting some airtime. I've always been curious to see how a sober former society maven would do...and well...she's learning. I didn't think I'd like her so much but I do. Under all the monied superficiality is a real person and I like seeing that (did that make any sense?)

  • Love 4
theatremouse

theatremouse

(edited)
7 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I have to wonder why they chose to throw the "I'm not supposed to tell anyone yet because it's early, but I can't help it" line. Why telegraph the miscarriage so blatantly?

Maybe they thought it would be easier on the audience if they were clued in what was about to happen.

I expected her to miscarry as soon as Bonnie told Christy, so that scene didn't seem any more telegraph-ey to me (although I admit I didn't think it was going to happen in this episode). I think on the one hand, yeah it's obvious, but also...that's why that's a thing people say, and that's why people don't talk about it that early. So, coming at it from the perspective of they'd already telegraphed it earlier, that line to me wasn't so much the anvil as running with what they've already set up and it fit the character.

 

Re: the sleeping arrangements I have two theories:

1) They think it's funny and don't want to give up said funny for the sake of logic.

2) They're trying to imply Roscoe is there more frequently than we actually see him onscreen.

Edited by theatremouse
  • Love 2
wendyg

wendyg

marymitch: my (possibly flawed) recollection of the Octavia Spencer scene is that the character did discuss the glass of wine with the others before ordering, and it was actually one of them (Bonnie or Marjorie) who ordered it for her.

As for the bed, I think the show just finds it convenient to have that intimate location for them to talk. I see as being like the stairs in THE BIG BANG THEORY - a setting that works for all kinds of interactions.

  • Love 2
chocolatine

chocolatine

(edited)
19 hours ago, theatremouse said:

2) They're trying to imply Roscoe is there more frequently than we actually see him onscreen.

That makes the most sense now that I think about it. We don't see him much on the show, but if this were a real life situation, Christy would have him for a few days every week.

13 minutes ago, Big Mother said:

I am drawing a blank here - where was Adam this episode? Any explanation? or does he just come for a few days and leaves?

He has his own place; he'd sublet it when he went to do the movie overseas, and had to stay with Bonnie for a while when he came back earlier than expected, but I think he's back living in his own place by now. Whatever the reason, I was happy to have Adam-free episode.

Edited by chocolatine
  • Love 1
Blakeston

Blakeston

On 1/14/2017 at 1:10 AM, theatremouse said:

I expected her to miscarry as soon as Bonnie told Christy, so that scene didn't seem any more telegraph-ey to me (although I admit I didn't think it was going to happen in this episode). I think on the one hand, yeah it's obvious, but also...that's why that's a thing people say, and that's why people don't talk about it that early. So, coming at it from the perspective of they'd already telegraphed it earlier, that line to me wasn't so much the anvil as running with what they've already set up and it fit the character.

Prior to her saying it was early to tell people, what was telegraphed about her miscarrying?

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