S08.E17: And Away We Finally Go

[jaync]

Sonja to the crewman: "You'll be glad we're only here for one night." - truer words were never spoken.

Of course the Hawaii trip was a no-go. If Frankel can't shill her swill at a group event, then it ain't happening.

It was a little surprising seeing Jules as a chubby kid.

Quote

Sonya looked fantastic in that dress. 

Va-va-voom...I wouldn't blame Tom if he dropped Lu's hand, and grabbed Sonja's. It would make for reality tv gold, too.

[zoeysmom]

Luann and twitter: http://www.realitytea.com/2016/07/28/luann-de-lesseps-fiance-says-ramona-singer-one-whos-desperate-attention-luann-slams-twitter/

[zoeysmom]

27 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I am not sure which article you are referring to by am I talking about the People mag article linked on the previous page by poeticlicensed. The specific quote I am referring to is "All I can say is, along the way you have kiss a few frogs and toads to get to a Countess, D'Agostino adds."

I was reading a story where Luann said essentially the same thing.  Maybe these two do share a brain.

[seasick]

11 hours ago, ElDosEquis said:

Who puts a scarecrow on a yacht? Oh that's just carol.

 

Okay that was pretty funny.

 

11 hours ago, ElDosEquis said:

 

Lulu's starting to get obnoxious. You don't have to mention Tom, engagement and love every five minutes

 

Yes! Yes she does.!  And she's deliciously, fabulously, obnoxious..Yes!   I hope she comes out singing "I'm in love, I'minloveI'minloveI'minloveI'm in love with a Wonderful guy"  from Oklahoma! while twirling in a circle skirt.  I hope she makes it her next CD!  I hope she asks the others to be in her music video swaying along holding stalks of corn!!   Bask in it Luann!! Roll in it!!    

I really do wish her the very best, but my fear is that in about 3 months she will come home to him wearing her lipstick and her dress. (hopefully not an Evine number)    But until then Ride that Wave woman!  Those crazy high, giddy moments get rare, so inhale it for all that it's worth and ride the wave as long as you can!   

[Umbelina]

I'm kind of team Sonja with all of this.

Tom owed her a phone call.  A ten year friend with benefits relationship deserves that courtesy, especially when he knew damn well that 1) this would air and blindside Sonja on camera, and 2) he knew his long time friend knew his fiance to be.

I've been in a happy and fairly long friends with benefits situation, though certainly not a ten year situation.  It's the "friends" part first, and while I wouldn't be jealous or upset if he found the right woman to marry?  I'd be totally shocked if it was someone I knew and he didn't tell me before it hit the newspapers and I was sure to run into the woman because I worked with her. 

Uncool.  Frankly, he sounds like an asshole.

[ElDosEquis]

24 minutes ago, seasick said:

Okay that was pretty funny.

 

Yes! Yes she does.!  And she's deliciously, fabulously, obnoxious..Yes!   I hope she comes out singing "I'm in love, I'minloveI'minloveI'minloveI'm in love with a Wonderful guy"  from Oklahoma! while twirling in a circle skirt.  I hope she makes it her next CD!  I hope she asks the others to be in her music video swaying along holding stalks of corn!!   Bask in it Luann!! Roll in it!!    

I really do wish her the very best, but my fear is that in about 3 months she will come home to him wearing her lipstick and her dress. (hopefully not an Evine number)    But until then Ride that Wave woman!  Those crazy high, giddy moments get rare, so inhale it for all that it's worth and ride the wave as long as you can!   

If she is going that route, I hope she hits Broadway and it turns into a hit.

I am tired of hearing that some dead politician raps in a play.

Really?

[zoeysmom]

8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I'm kind of team Sonja with all of this.

Tom owed her a phone call.  A ten year friend with benefits relationship deserves that courtesy, especially when he knew damn well that 1) this would air and blindside Sonja on camera, and 2) he knew his long time friend knew his fiance to be.

I've been in a happy and fairly long friends with benefits situation, though certainly not a ten year situation.  It's the "friends" part first, and while I wouldn't be jealous or upset if he found the right woman to marry?  I'd be totally shocked if it was someone I knew and he didn't tell me before it hit the newspapers and I was sure to run into the woman because I worked with her. 

Uncool.  Frankly, he sounds like an asshole.

Sonja said Tom did tell her that he met Lu and liked her.  I think that qualifies.  it sounded like he told her before Luann did.

[Boofish]

Sounds like Tom went to the Spencer Pratt Brody Jenner Reality TV Learning Academy for Boys. They admittedly went after the girls on The Hills in order to get a come up

[ElDosEquis]

3 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

I'm still not understanding why it's such a taboo for a man to enjoy the company of women.

You mean to tell me that some of Sonja's bedpersons are complete strangers with one another?? or You mean to tell me that the one's that do know each other know they are banging Sonja Morgan and if we go as far as that you mean to tell me the men are really gonna give a rats ass about whether or not they've been given full disclosure by the others? Sounds disturbing the other way around doesn't it? It also sounds rather creepy. Why we expect this process from women is terribly frightening.  Sounds silly and downright offputting when slapping it on a man's narrative but for some reason makes sense when it comes to women knowing about each other's mutual conquests.

Yuck!

 

Years ago, was dating a woman who called me up to tell me to go see a doc and get a prescription. As it turns out? She was sleeping with her ex husband at the same time.

Full disclosure goes both ways - I gave it a male POV because I don't know anything about being a woman? You risk all kinds of perils when you have sex with ANYONE these days. 

As much fun as it sounds to go banging around and rubbing peepees with different people all the time?

I'll leave it to the more adventurous person. One that has a good urologist, OB/GYN or has 18 years to dedicate to a small person that might show up 9 months later?

[Umbelina]

Yeah ElDosEquis, I think that's the main reason marriage has made a comeback.

[RedheadZombie]

4 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

No doubt, self awareness is not Ramona's friend.  That scene with her posing for Sonja was ridiculous. The only thing I will say about Sonja is she is a good sport about Ramona. 

It seems to me that Sonja is incapable of being close to Ramona and Lu at the same time.  This season she started off as buds with Lu, and now that she's upset with Lu, she's sucking up to Ramona again.  

3 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

I believe Sonja's jailed dog has issues with the cameras and crew being in the house.  It does look bad but she does need to protect her dog.

If true, I bet Marley would be more content in jail if Sonja wasn't cooing and loving all over Rouge right in front of him.  I have a neighbor who did this and have no patience for such passive cruelty.   Marley and Rouge should be confined together, safe and companionable. Like, I don't know, outside in the sun like normal dogs.  Put out a couple of dog beds, a bowl of water, and a shaded area if it's hot.  I'm sure the interns would appreciate the break from cleaning up all the dog waste in the house that day. 

[Former Nun]

1 hour ago, seasick said:

 

I hope she comes out singing "I'm in love, I'minloveI'minloveI'minloveI'm in love with a Wonderful guy"  from Oklahoma! while twirling in a circle skirt.   

SOUTH PACIFIC!

[Ms Blue Jay]

23 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

How can Ramona simultaneously slay in a bathing suit and look awkward as hell? lol!  It's like a camera comes out and she turns into Jim Carrey. 

are you on Twitter?  Because I need to follow you.

Not a cheesy pick up line I'm being literal

I liked Jules' parents but I felt so sorry for her little boy.  I know in her TH Jules said she was on vacation but the truth is she's working.  You'd think her douche bag of a husband would come home for the kids especially since Mommy isn't there and the nanny is new and they are not used to her.  I hope he goes down in flames in the divorce.

I just watched Seasons 5 through 7.  Kristen's husband was a dick like this too.  Kristen went away with the girls and her husband Josh is like "Yayyyyy vacation!" and he picks up and leaves the kids.  To me he is a fucking asshole.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Former Nun]

4 hours ago, Crankybroad said:

So who keeps "Carole's" west coast dog? That really makes me dislike her, abandon one dog and get another?

 

I think it's possible that Carol got a pup that grew up into a large pet that wouldn't be happy or healthy confined in an apartment and to only required "walks" outside.  The dog is probably living where there's more space and (perhaps) more human-time for outdoor exercise.  Little dogs are often better "city" pets.

[seasick]

3 hours ago, Former Nun said:

SOUTH PACIFIC!

oops!     I stand gratefully corrected.  The girls can wear little navy uniforms in the video.  (okay?)               

ETA;  I recalled something about the "4th of July" in the the lyrics..thought maybe the "corn was as high as an elephants eyyyye'  ....   (I'm gonna wash this thought right outta my hair)

Edited July 29, 2016 by seasick

[StevieRocks]

3 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

I believe Sonja's jailed dog has issues with the cameras and crew being in the house.  It does look bad but she does need to protect her dog.

Oh, good! I'm so glad to know this! I was really getting mad at Sonja, but this is different.

[Bebecat]

While I am enjoying Luann's OTT euphoria, it can only lead to a tragic fall in Housewife land. The stars in her eyes are blocking her brain. She used to be sort of down to earth, in a way, but she has lost her grip. And over this guy lol.

 

But please, someone, spill the dirt on Sonja/Tom and what they really had. I think it is being overstated but jmo...

[Sage47]

When Luann kept leaping out of her seat and clapping her hands giddily, and giggling over Tom, all I could think about was Tom Cruise's bizarre display over Katie Holmes/jumping on Oprah's couch. Very.....odd. She could still be giddily happy without acting like THAT. Something is off about "sophisticated" Lu, a 50 year old woman, unable to hold her glee in for more than three minutes at a time. She actually seemed to be on something.

At first I thought it was silly for Sonja to be torn up about Lu and Tom, but then I thought about it from my own shoes. I would have hated it if a guy I was hooking up with on occasion suddenly got engaged to a good friend of mine. That is shady as hell.

Having a dog on another coast makes it not really your dog, sorry. Carole is a phony. She probably got Baby to make Adam see her as maternal since she is 52 with no children. Not saying she didn't get attached to Baby but before this I seem to remember her talking with disdain about children and saying that she wasn't overly emotional.

[windtrix]

I am another one that had fibroids and uterus removed. One rough day in the hospital, but I was out picking blackberries 3 days later. That was about 18 years ago so I am pretty sure the process has been vastly improved. I never told anyone about it except for immediate family. I wasn't trying to hide it, just thought it was something that needed to be taken care of rather than talked about. 

On rewatching the last scene, when I wasn't totally distracted by Sonja's "fuck me" dress, I was really struck by how naturally beautiful Sonja looked. Glowing skin and eyes, pretty features, rocking body. Unlike Carole, who is bordering on hideous. Her face is really jacked up. I checked their ages and they are both 52. Check out those two side-by-side....kind of shocking. I think it helps that she has eased up on the booze. She probably can't afford the extensive plastic surgery which is a very good thing.

[breezy424]

So, Ro looks great for her age but she doesn't look great in a bikini.  She's got a gut.  Really.  She does.  And she's one of those people who looks much better fully clothed.  Start taking those clothes off and... well.  Not so much.  She's also awkward as heck.  Which you can get away with when you're fully clothed.  In a bikini and high heels?  Not so much.  Flashback to Turks when she trying to open the sliding door.  She'd be better off in a one piece with a sexy coverup and a pair of flats. 

Sonja also looks great for her age but she's getting flabby in the back.  A little wrap around the waist would do her a favor.

Lu... Lu looks fab.  Period.  Woman has a body to die for.  I'd take it in a minute.

I think the truth is that Sonja and Tom have slept a few times over the years.  And that's it.  And since we've never seen her close FWB at any Sonja event over the years, it never was anything more.  Ro had a few dinner dates with Tom (she keeps changing the number) and that's it.  If Tom was never important enough to mention to Lu in the past, or anyone else for that matter, then Lu doesn't owe Ro or Sonja a heads up.  I think Sonja is jealous and Ro has an ego problem.

I haven't gone back and looked at the episode but I think Beth brought up the doctor's note as an excuse not to go to Lu's engagement party.  She doesn't know Tom and maybe she was a bit afraid of a confrontation after how she treated Lu in the Berkshires.  It was a party that she didn't control and was an 'unknown'.  I could be wrong but Beth is very calculating.  She was 'saving' her info about Tom until she had 'control' in Miami.  Just a feeling.

[Bebecat]

Carole looks awful. If only she had allowed herself to age naturally, she would look so much better. She has really changed for the worse more than any housewife on any of the shows, imo. And that long horse hair is not helping at all.

[seasick]

2 hours ago, Sage47 said:

 

At first I thought it was silly for Sonja to be torn up about Lu and Tom, but then I thought about it from my own shoes. I would have hated it if a guy I was hooking up with on occasion suddenly got engaged to a good friend of mine. That is shady as hell.

 

I really don't get this.  First let me say that I don't think Sonja and Tom were "friends" w benefits.  I think over the years they ended up alone at 'last call' and took it from there --my sense is maybe a dozen or so times. (and she did say when he wasn't in a relationship--so he wasn't cheating--a plus for Tom)   I don't think they were "friends" in the sense that they talked outside of that, hung out, etc.   They hooked up occasionally. period.  

So I'm not sure what any woman would expect from that 'relationship'.  It sounds super-casual, totally non-committal and two consenting adults out looking for love but settling for sex at the end of the night.   Did Sonja really think that she had a chance with this guy for anything else??  If she thinks these incidental hook-ups have chance to a possible real relationship then she's got some growing up to do.  Don't play like it's just sex and then get hurt when the guy finds a girlfriend and it's not her, even if it is a friend of hers.     

I don't really think Sonja is hurt or expected more.  I think she just likes putting her spoon in the pot just to say "I fucked him before you".  Big deal.  I also think that Sonja might tone down putting all her hook-ups on blast.  It would be a really cheesy thing for a man to do,  and I don't think men are too keen on knowing Sonja is willing to telegraph their name at any time just to prove a notch in her belt.  She's SO "been around".  I think it's an embarrassment.

Edited July 29, 2016 by seasick

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't get all the pearl-clutching judgment, my god.  I had a college friend who ended up being a friend with benefits for about a decade.  Yes, he was my friend.  We had known each other since were 12.  We were real friends and hung out - mostly to have sex. So what?  He never disrespected me, not once.  It was a good time and it was nice when neither of us were in relationships.  Nobody really knows what happened between Sonja and Tom.  Sonja is entitled to any damn single feeling over Tom that she has.  God, the judgement against this woman like any woman who has had casual sex should walk home with their head down and tail between their legs and never expect anything out of life.  

In several of my 'friends with benefits' situations, the guy wanted to turn into a relationship.  I didn't.  (I've been on the other side of that too - where I pushed for more, but was rebuffed.)  There aren't black and white rules for these relationships like No man ever wants more.  I've found that NOT to be the case.  I really have to wonder if all of the people implying that Sonja is some kind of idiot have ever had casual sex before.  It's fine if you haven't, but then, don't act like this is The Scarlett Letter.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Umbelina]

Twinsies Ms. Blue Jay!  I totally agree.  Sonja said he was her friend, and I believe her.  I think it was a shitty thing for a friend to do, when sex was part of that friendship.  How much would a simple phone call head's up have cost him?  "I've asked Luann to marry me."

[Ms Blue Jay]

People who toss judgment Sonja's way, but not Tom's?  It's clear that your view of what women should do in the bedroom might be outdated and biased based on gender.  It's 2016, Sonja's incredibly single, and like 50.  She needs to be doing and feeling anything she wants.  It's not a simple case of being happy for a friend who is marrying a stranger.  It's a lot more complicated than that.  I don't think Luann deserves more respect than Sonja just because she landed the ring.  Really outdated thinking.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[zoeysmom]

48 minutes ago, seasick said:

I really don't get this.  First let me say that I don't think Sonja and Tom were "friends" w benefits.  I think over the years they ended up alone at 'last call' and took it from there --my sense is maybe a dozen or so times. (and she did say when he wasn't in a relationship--so he wasn't cheating--a plus for Tom)   I don't think they were "friends" in the sense that they talked outside of that, hung out, etc.   They hooked up occasionally. period.  

So I'm not sure what any woman would expect from that 'relationship'.  It sounds super-casual, totally non-committal and two consenting adults out looking for love but settling for sex at the end of the night.   Did Sonja really think that she had a chance with this guy for anything else??  If she thinks these incidental hook-ups have chance to a possible real relationship then she's got some growing up to do.  Don't play like it's just sex and then get hurt when the guy finds a girlfriend and it's not her, even if it is a friend of hers.     

I don't really think Sonja is hurt or expected more.  I think she just likes putting her spoon in the pot just to say "I fucked him before you".  Big deal.  I also think that Sonja might tone down putting all her hook-ups on blast.  It would be a really cheesy thing for a man to do,  and I don't think men are too keen on knowing Sonja is willing to telegraph their name at any time just to prove a notch in her belt.  She's SO "been around".  I think it's an embarrassment.

Whether they had sex once or twenty times, to me what makes the Sonja's intrusion into Tom and Luann situation unwarranted, is she is expecting some sort of acknowledgment of her relationship with Tom.  The time for that would have been the 10 years she claims to have been in the friends with benefit situation.   Plenty of time for her to acknowledge him as a friend with benefits to these other women or someone who at least knew them.  To pull a clandestine relationship to the forefront and demand some sort of equal billing with an engagement is weird-even by Sonja standards.  I get where Sonja feels very invisible with her ex-husband and his refusal to even talk to her but I don't think her friends with benefits situation with Tom was handled well.

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Twinsies Ms. Blue Jay!  I totally agree.  Sonja said he was her friend, and I believe her.  I think it was a shitty thing for a friend to do, when sex was part of that friendship.  How much would a simple phone call head's up have cost him?  "I've asked Luann to marry me."

I think you missed the part of the show where Sonja said Tom told her about he and Luann. According to Sonja he did it after they first met.  How much more heads up did she want?   From Sonja's telling it was before Luann told her. 

5 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

People who toss judgment Sonja's way, but not Tom's?  It's clear that your view of what women should do in the bedroom might be outdated and biased based on gender.  It's 2016, Sonja's incredibly single, and like 50.  She needs to be doing and feeling anything she wants. 

It is always the same standard-is Sonja putting her feelings ahead of Luann and Tom's?  She is certainly entitled to do so and has also has to live with the fall out.  Sonja's clumsy telling of her time with Tom put this story front and center.  The idea she was doing Luann a favor by making it public is a little hard to track. 

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

People who toss judgment Sonja's way, but not Tom's?  It's clear that your view of what women should do in the bedroom might be outdated and biased based on gender.  It's 2016, Sonja's incredibly single, and like 50.  She needs to be doing and feeling anything she wants.  It's not a simple case of being happy for a friend who is marrying a stranger.  It's a lot more complicated than that.  I don't think Luann deserves more respect than Sonja just because she landed the ring.  Really outdated thinking.

I agree with you completely.  I also love the forum changes here, especially the block feature.  It's a weird thing when a ring suddenly is some kind of "get out of jail free" card.  Obviously Luann and Sonja are sexually mature, they can do whatever they want.  If a guy does it, he's still a "bachelor" or "playboy" but a woman?  Bring out the pitchforks and the name calling.  21st century and not much has changed.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

People who toss judgment Sonja's way, but not Tom's?  It's clear that your view of what women should do in the bedroom might be outdated and biased based on gender.  It's 2016, Sonja's incredibly single, and like 50.  She needs to be doing and feeling anything she wants.  It's not a simple case of being happy for a friend who is marrying a stranger.  It's a lot more complicated than that.  I don't think Luann deserves more respect than Sonja just because she landed the ring.  Really outdated thinking.

Sonja and Luann may just view relationships differently.  When Sonja and Luann were talking about obnoxious guy Rey who Luann ran from at John's party, Sonja referred to him as her "lover".  Luann said no, and admitted to having sex with him but didn't feel their relationship was at the lovers level.  Sonja seems to call everyone a friend, lover, friend with benefits.

I don't think Luann deserves more respect than Sonja because she landed the ring, it may be just as simple as respecting the relationship between Tom and Luann and  Sonja accepting Luann's relationship with Tom is very different than the one she previously enjoyed with Tom or even the former girlfriend who got the gold bracelet for Christmas.  At the same time perhaps Sonja and the others should stop discounting Tom's feelings for Luann based on his past.  It is almost as if he is damaged goods something that would be unfathomable to say about a woman.   (Well except Bethenny says it about Luann.)

[biakbiak]

12 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Jules has claimed she’s the stay at home Super hands on mom. The flight to Florida is only 3 hours. So she was gone from the kids a max of 5 hours at that point. When something is wrong a child usually wants their primary care taker. I find it telling that Jagger couldn’t give a crap about Jules, he wanted his DADDY not his mommy.

I think it's mainly telling that Jagger is old enough and understands his mother is in another state and cant get there but that his dad who was supposed to there was missing. 

[Beden]

6 hours ago, seasick said:

So I'm not sure what any woman would expect from that 'relationship'.  It sounds super-casual, totally non-committal and two consenting adults out looking for love but settling for sex at the end of the night.   Did Sonja really think that she had a chance with this guy for anything else??  If she thinks these incidental hook-ups have chance to a possible real relationship then she's got some growing up to do.  Don't play like it's just sex and then get hurt when the guy finds a girlfriend and it's not her, even if it is a friend of hers.     

I agree with you here but also suspect that her being upset (and possibly also a little drunk) is because she's seeing Tom and Lu moving on, getting together and settling down--or settling, anyway. While Sonja is still in a falling apart townhouse, hurting financially, her daughter is growing up and away most of the time and living with a couple of dogs and makes at least a goodly part of her income from a cheesy reality show where she's the pity cast member while her former social circle (I'm guessing--aka the Churchill's et al) have likely struck her from their Christmas card lists.

Maybe?

[ginger90]

Luann saying she, Tom and Tom's mother had looked at wedding venues made me cringe a bit. And did she ever answer the question regarding if Tom's mother was going to be at the party?

[Yours Truly]

12 hours ago, ElDosEquis said:

 

Years ago, was dating a woman who called me up to tell me to go see a doc and get a prescription. As it turns out? She was sleeping with her ex husband at the same time.

Full disclosure goes both ways - I gave it a male POV because I don't know anything about being a woman? You risk all kinds of perils when you have sex with ANYONE these days. 

As much fun as it sounds to go banging around and rubbing peepees with different people all the time?

I'll leave it to the more adventurous person. One that has a good urologist, OB/GYN or has 18 years to dedicate to a small person that might show up 9 months later?

Well it's pretty much a given that if you are having sex with multiple partners safe sex should be practiced and although I know people aren't always safe but if you are having sex with someone you're not monogamous with its save to assume they are sleeping with others as well. What I'm saying is that I'm not going to sit down with a guy that I'm hooking up with and say oh, by the way I know a guy from your office and I've slept with him a few times over the years.  Like... whaaaaaa? And I sure as hell ain't gonna sift through my backups shoot out a text that I've started banging a dude that they know from the gym. Does that not sound completely ridiculous? But we expect Tom to give those sort of details right out of the gate? Makes no sense to me.

Now if you are involved with someone and are approaching your dating in a more traditional way then of course I understand the need to be really open about certain things but if you're Tom and Lu, both on the dating scene seeing other people and Sonja, a women who names her speed dial men the days of the week..... It seems really outrageous to expect them to be so detailed about what they've been up to in the last few months.

[Yours Truly]

13 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Luann and twitter: http://www.realitytea.com/2016/07/28/luann-de-lesseps-fiance-says-ramona-singer-one-whos-desperate-attention-luann-slams-twitter/

I think this says it all and what motivated them to get engaged.

From the article:

The bottom line: Luann seems genuinely happy; Tom as well. They probably satisfy each other’s lifestyle wants and needs – who wants to be out on the prowl past 50? She’s a fun lady of his age, with her own money, who won’t expect him to get tied down with kids. She understands how to behave in the right circles, is attractive, and seems willing to turn a blind eye under the right circumstances. Even if the other women don’t approve, it’s not their relationship to be in (criticize, or tear down!). 
Read more at http://www.realitytea.com/2016/07/28/luann-de-lesseps-fiance-says-ramona-singer-one-whos-desperate-attention-luann-slams-twitter/#slBPcAh6u5VGiLcK.99

[RHJunkie]

Just caught up on the full episode.

Luann is so obnoxious about her engagement. I get that she's happy but every conversation has to be stopped with a 'isn't it crazy, I can't believe I'm getting married'. What do you mean you can't believe you're getting married? You were talking about the two of you getting married before he actually put a ring on it. It's coming to the point where she's gone beyond happy and is simply gloating at this point. I think a part of her is really relishing in the fact that the women have all took turns commenting on her dating and sex life and have insinuated that she simply sleeps around in now she's the first one with a ring on it and ready to walk down the aisle. That doesn't mean she isn't coming across insanely annoying in the process. Stop it Luann.

Jules' parents are lovely and she seems to have a very sweet relationship with them. You can tell when she says that her parents mean the world to her, she means it. I felt so bad when her son starting crying for his dad. This show is clearly setting up the storyline to make sense of their impending divorce. Michael seems like an asshole and it shouldn't be any real loss for Jules. I hope she keeps her head straight to figure out the way best way to transition her children in the process. of all the women, Jules seems like the most genuine of the bunch. If Bethenny wants to see what a real girl's girl looks like, it's not her, it's someone like Jules. Jules isn't catty, she doesn't feel a part of the group by engaging in gossip about the other women, and she's supportive of all of the women. She seems to enjoy and celebrate all of the women's success and happiness without throwing shade at them in the process.

I can't be Team Sonja on this because Sonja doesn't get to live the lifestyle she does and then decide when others owe her something. She can't chew and spit out men and think that only her feelings matter. She doesn't get to go out and pick up any man and take him home and then get upset when her other men are doing the same thing and one happens to find another woman that suits his fancy. She flaunts so many men and brags about casually hooking up with the guys. She has more than one friends with benefits situation. I'm not going to feel for her just because she's sad that she's lost one number in her little black book that she can't call anymore. It seems Tom told her the moment he realized that he wanted to pursue something with Luann. What more does he owe her? What does it say about Sonja that she only becomes emotional and considerate of her relationships when she realizes one of her man toys have moved on to something more stable that will no longer involve her? She's upset because she feels rejected. Tom has the things she feels are important and that's why she's kept him on the side for 10 years. Now he's moved on, which sucks, but the dagger hits hard hard because he's moved on with one of her friends so she can't escape the situation or the rejection and now there's some jealousy there. I still think Tom is shady but Sonja isn't cookie cutter either.

[seasick]

53 minutes ago, Beden said:

I agree with you here but also suspect that her being upset (and possibly also a little drunk) is because she's seeing Tom and Lu moving on, getting together and settling down--or settling, anyway. While Sonja is still in a falling apart townhouse, hurting financially, her daughter is growing up and away most of the time and living with a couple of dogs and makes at least a goodly part of her income from a cheesy reality show where she's the pity cast member while her former social circle (I'm guessing--aka the Churchill's et al) have likely struck her from their Christmas card lists.

Maybe?

I agree Sonja has a lot of sad inventory.  Of course much of it is her own making as she clings to the past instead of letting it go and reinventing herself.  She has a daughter, a townhouse in Manhattan, a decent paying job and a couple of friends.  She is also quite beautiful..  Her snooty remarks and comparisons from her past life is both self-pity and self-serving.  (this is nothing compared to what I HAD.)  Am I supposed to feel sorry for you or be impressed?  Both I presume--but mostly impressed. I sense some of that has become her 'schtick' but it's still pathetic.  Stop acting like a Has-Been. 

7 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Whether they had sex once or twenty times, to me what makes the Sonja's intrusion into Tom and Luann situation unwarranted, is she is expecting some sort of acknowledgment of her relationship with Tom.  The time for that would have been the 10 years she claims to have been in the friends with benefit situation.   Plenty of time for her to acknowledge him as a friend with benefits to these other women or someone who at least knew them.  To pull a clandestine relationship to the forefront and demand some sort of equal billing with an engagement is weird-even by Sonja standards.  I get where Sonja feels very invisible with her ex-husband and his refusal to even talk to her but I don't think her friends with benefits situation with Tom was handled well.

. 

I agree with this entire post,  but this part hit the nail on the head for me.  

I would also add that although yes, a FwB situation CAN lead to a relationship, if it hasn't in TEN YEARS I would say it was obviously never going to happen.

I wanted to quote Zoeysmom's next post but it's not working.  But the statement about Tom being viewed as 'damaged goods"   is the "IT" statement for me.  And sadly,  I think they are all insinuating that he is 'damaged' mostly by virtue of the fact that he was boning Sonja!     They all talk out of both sides of their mouths.  Crazy.

[Yours Truly]

8 hours ago, seasick said:

I really don't get this.  First let me say that I don't think Sonja and Tom were "friends" w benefits.  I think over the years they ended up alone at 'last call' and took it from there --my sense is maybe a dozen or so times. (and she did say when he wasn't in a relationship--so he wasn't cheating--a plus for Tom)   I don't think they were "friends" in the sense that they talked outside of that, hung out, etc.   They hooked up occasionally. period.  

So I'm not sure what any woman would expect from that 'relationship'.  It sounds super-casual, totally non-committal and two consenting adults out looking for love but settling for sex at the end of the night.   Did Sonja really think that she had a chance with this guy for anything else??  If she thinks these incidental hook-ups have chance to a possible real relationship then she's got some growing up to do.  Don't play like it's just sex and then get hurt when the guy finds a girlfriend and it's not her, even if it is a friend of hers.     

I don't really think Sonja is hurt or expected more.  I think she just likes putting her spoon in the pot just to say "I fucked him before you".  Big deal.  I also think that Sonja might tone down putting all her hook-ups on blast.  It would be a really cheesy thing for a man to do,  and I don't think men are too keen on knowing Sonja is willing to telegraph their name at any time just to prove a notch in her belt.  She's SO "been around".  I think it's an embarrassment.

I mean honestly!! That's the part that gets on my nerves. All she has been about is shouting from the rooftops the notches on her belt.

I've said it before and please someone pick up on it cause I really feel like I'm the only one that noticed it but I think its uber fucked up that Sonja shares these notches quite readily and here's the kicker.. She does it in the most inappropriate ways and the goal in those moments is what you said above which is to say "I fucked him first" or at least in some cases "I fucked him too". She did it during a sit down with Kelly and I think Lu when it came out the Kelly was seeing a man that was Sonja's Thursday? was it? And Sonja spilled the beans about Russ when Carole was sharing her story with him to the others. Isn't that the gist of it? We all know how comfortable and giddy Sonja was about the whole Harry connection.. I mean hell he was MARRIED to one of the other housewives and had children with her for goodness sake but yup old Harry had his dick in her too.. And Sonja acts like the gushing bride in all of these scenarios. Now Tom? Hell let's not forget that she even knew the blind date that Jules set her up on. This is the most ridiculous of situations and expectations I've ever seen. This is the first situation, on camera and involving the other cast members where it's HER connection that's ended while it moves forward with one of the others. Kelly wasn't involved with the dude anymore. Aviva was divorced from Harry, Russ wasn't exclusive with Carole so her position with these men never shifted to anything but what SHE wanted it to continue to be. But now? With Tom? Sonja's mad that another cast member has the upper hand regarding a man she's shared privates with and she's used to being the one that outlasts them all. I can't feel sorry for Sonja cause it's actually a rather disgusting equation that doesn't deserve more than an eyeroll.

[Yours Truly]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't get all the pearl-clutching judgment, my god.  I had a college friend who ended up being a friend with benefits for about a decade.  Yes, he was my friend.  We had known each other since were 12.  We were real friends and hung out - mostly to have sex. So what?  He never disrespected me, not once.  It was a good time and it was nice when neither of us were in relationships.  Nobody really knows what happened between Sonja and Tom.  Sonja is entitled to any damn single feeling over Tom that she has.  God, the judgement against this woman like any woman who has had casual sex should walk home with their head down and tail between their legs and never expect anything out of life.  

In several of my 'friends with benefits' situations, the guy wanted to turn into a relationship.  I didn't.  (I've been on the other side of that too - where I pushed for more, but was rebuffed.)  There aren't black and white rules for these relationships like No man ever wants more.  I've found that NOT to be the case.  I really have to wonder if all of the people implying that Sonja is some kind of idiot have ever had casual sex before.  It's fine if you haven't, but then, don't act like this is The Scarlett Letter.

I've had casual sex. I actually have a FWB for about 15 years now but I wouldn't expect him to check in with me before he put a ring on someone else's finger. Even if I was acquainted with who he plans to marry. But my set up with him is really more about the romps than it is about the "friends" but we have been in some intense emotional intervals that lasted maybe 5 seconds from time to time but at the end of the day all of the "extra" isn't expected. Would it hurt? Well of course there would be emotions but the point is that, because of the set up, the voice of those emotions would be at minimum setting. There's no deception, there's not right, wrong. There is just the moment which changes on a dime and the biggest point of set ups like that is that there's no blame because at the end of the day the agreement is there is no commitment. No guidelines aside from NO commitment. Not to say that it's a ok for it to be abusive and disrespectful but that traditional expectations are non existent. I think the big problem is that Sonja expected something and expectations are usually one of the no's in set ups like hers. JMO.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Ms Blue Jay]

You can't really tell humans how to feel. Some catch feelings, some don't.  

[Yours Truly]

8 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

 

I think you missed the part of the show where Sonja said Tom told her about he and Luann. According to Sonja he did it after they first met.  How much more heads up did she want?   From Sonja's telling it was before Luann told her. 

 

Good point. I think people actually mean is CHECK with Sonja. I think its getting a bit confusing because there is this whole owe each other thing that's getting thrown about as if Sonja and Tom were actually in some official relationship where yeah then I can understand the need to hash things out carefully but ummmmmmm. That's not the case here. I don't mean to make Sonja sound cheap but the steps that were expected to be made on Tom and Lu's part aren't the sort of expectations booty calls have. I mean it's getting blown out of proportion as well as the actions that "should" have been taken all over a casual sex arrangement. It's quite ridiculous actually.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Yours Truly]

13 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

You can't really tell humans how to feel. Some catch feelings, some don't.  

Of course not but it's still wrong to use those feelings as a way to hurt the budding relationship. Especially if no one pulled any wool over anyone's eyes. Sonja can be hurt if she chooses but it's not cool or fair for her to paint anyone or the situation in a bad light because it's just not justified.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Juliegirlj]

I think it's obvious that Lu and Tom have an open relationship and if they do actually get married it will be an open marriage as well. I'm still not buying the falling in love story- there is zero chemistry between Lu and Tom. It seems more like a mutually beneficial agreement between them for a storyline for Lu and attention and publicity for Tom. 

He is not of the grocery store D'agostino family- he owns Smartsource which is a printing business. Tom seems like a skeezeball- he knows that older, wealthy women in NYC are a goldmine- plenty of sex, and he gets to pretend he is a player. He's probably not wealthy enough, handsome enough, or cool enough to attract younger women. 

Tom looked like Little Lord Fauntelroy walking up to the boat. He is obviously impressed with himself. 

[seasick]

6 minutes ago, Juliegirlj said:

I think it's obvious that Lu and Tom have an open relationship and if they do actually get married it will be an open marriage as well. I'm still not buying the falling in love story- there is zero chemistry between Lu and Tom. It seems more like a mutually beneficial agreement between them for a storyline for Lu and attention and publicity for Tom. 

He is not of the grocery store D'agostino family- he owns Smartsource which is a printing business. Tom seems like a skeezeball- he knows that older, wealthy women in NYC are a goldmine- plenty of sex, and he gets to pretend he is a player. He's probably not wealthy enough, handsome enough, or cool enough to attract younger women. 

Tom looked like Little Lord Fauntelroy walking up to the boat. He is obviously impressed with himself. 

Whoaaaaa!    It COULD be possible that he wants a real mature relationship and not just some young arm-candy for show.  It's possible the 'older, wealthy women' in NYC have more to offer than a goldmine of sex or to be a pity fuck or a player notch.  

[njbchlover]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Luann saying she, Tom and Tom's mother had looked at wedding venues made me cringe a bit. And did she ever answer the question regarding if Tom's mother was going to be at the party?

I don't think she got the opportunity to answer because Ramona jumped in, demanding the detailed guest list, with marital status and financials of all the male guests.    ;-)

[izabella]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Luann saying she, Tom and Tom's mother had looked at wedding venues made me cringe a bit. And did she ever answer the question regarding if Tom's mother was going to be at the party?

Why did it make you cringe?  I thought it was nice that his mom is supportive and interested in their wedding plans.

[WireWrap]

3 hours ago, Beden said:

I agree with you here but also suspect that her being upset (and possibly also a little drunk) is because she's seeing Tom and Lu moving on, getting together and settling down--or settling, anyway. While Sonja is still in a falling apart townhouse, hurting financially, her daughter is growing up and away most of the time and living with a couple of dogs and makes at least a goodly part of her income from a cheesy reality show where she's the pity cast member while her former social circle (I'm guessing--aka the Churchill's et al) have likely struck her from their Christmas card lists.

Maybe?

I think Ramona winding her up has been a large part of why Sonja is acting like someone stole her man from her at the alter.

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, seasick said:

Whoaaaaa!    It COULD be possible that he wants a real mature relationship and not just some young arm-candy for show.  It's possible the 'older, wealthy women' in NYC have more to offer than a goldmine of sex or to be a pity fuck or a player notch.  

Agreed! What is really wrong with their pairing? Outside of it annoying the others? I think some of Lu's giddiness comes from a combination of things. Getting out of the singles game. Very, very grueling at any age but especially after a certain age. Having someone who isn't going to dive into her past with scowls and judgement and vice versa. I think, to Tom he's got the best of both worlds and I don't mean as in being able to have an open relationship. Look, he doesn't HAVE to quit the singles game. He doesn't need to officially get married if he still plans on seeing other women so this whole open marriage theory doesn't make sense to me. It makes sense that he may want to hang it up and who better to do it with than this beautiful vibrant women who likes to travel and is energetic and polarizing. I see it like this. He is cashing in his chips and leaving the table after what he feels is the best hand he's likely to get from here on out. I truly believe that he's realizing that his days are numbered, that scooping up the ladies ain't gonna be as much of a given as it's been in the past for him (supposedly) and just like the women his appeal will be waning as well. It's like playing deal or no deal. With Lu the banker has offered him a six figure offer and rather than risk the awesome catch in front of him for the possibility of getting a better offer down the line he's realized he'd be really stupid to hold off for maybe something better to come along.

At their ages I find it completely believable that they understand this. I look back at 20+ years of relationships and realize that anything that comes my way took 20 years in the making so I should think carefully about letting good things get away. Especially when there are more dating and relationship years in my past than there are in my future cause let me tell you I don't really plan on being 65 and dating. No ma'am. I think Lu is extra happy cause there probably was a part of her that was preparing to accept life as a single woman. Any reasonable woman would have started to mentally prepare for that outcome so for this to be happening to her I would think the giddiness is extra because she also excited that that sober conclusion doesn't seem to be her fate. Add that it seems Tom is on the same page and is more than likely feeling the same sort of reservations about staying (and eventually getting stuck) in the singles scene I'm guessing Lu is completely amazed at the similar concerns they have as well as the perfect timing of it all.  They landed in each others paths at just the right time. So yeah, I get it.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Natalie68]

16 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Back then, no one knew the show would become a hit or make it on the little know Bravo channel, it was just a pilot called Manhattan Moms, not the Real Housewives of NY and they did a lot of filming in local hot spots that included regular/real customers. I don't think he was interested in getting on camera, he was interested in hooking up with Joannie. LOL

Yes, Bethenny does have an agenda against Luann this season, a big agenda. She started out going after Sonja and when Luann defended Sonja, Bethenny set her sights on Luann instead. I also don't think Carole was part of Bethenny's plan but she went along with it anyway.

So nobodies with a desire to be on tv won't do it unless they are guaranteed a success?  He was interested enough to sign a release.  Just giving the side eye to someone who appeared season 1 and now has been passed around by almost 1/2 of the cast.  Guess we will just have to agree to disagree!

[RHJunkie]

55 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

I don't think she got the opportunity to answer because Ramona jumped in, demanding the detailed guest list, with marital status and financials of all the male guests.    ;-)

I forgot to mention that in my original comments about the episode - what was up with Ramona demanding the entire guest list? She thinks it's rude that the host isn't divulging the detailed information but I find it incredibly rude for a guest to insist on knowing such details. Ramona has no etiquette. You didn't show up to some random party where the guest list may or may not dissuade you from going (or vice versa). You are showing up for an occasion to celebrate someone. You're only consideration is whether you care enough about that person to show up. The other people shouldn't and don't matter. Now if she had bad blood with someone Luann knows, I can better understand if she was asking about someone in particular as a heads up but simply insisting because you think that you have a right to know that information as a guest of someone, that's just a rule in Ramona's world.

[izabella]

Ramona wanted to know what single men would be there that she could potentially hit on.  That's all, folks.  She complained at one of Bethy's marketing parties that there weren't enough age appropriate single men there for her to meet.  She's always rolling out early to go somewhere where there are single men (I don't think she is going on dates like she is always implying).  Ramona is on the hunt and expects that everywhere she goes, the other women will provide her with intros to single men.

[seasick]

24 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Agreed! What is really wrong with their pairing? Outside of it annoying the others? I think some of Lu's giddiness comes from a combination of things. Getting out of the singles game. Very, very grueling at any age but especially after a certain age. Having someone who isn't going to dive into her past with scowls and judgement and vice versa. I think, to Tom he's got the best of both worlds and I don't mean as in being able to have an open relationship. Look, he doesn't HAVE to quit the singles game. He doesn't need to officially get married if he still plans on seeing other women so this whole open marriage theory doesn't make sense to me. It makes sense that he may want to hang it up and who better to do it with than this beautiful vibrant women who likes to travel and is energetic and polarizing. I see it like this. He is cashing in his chips and leaving the table after what he feels is the best hand he's likely to get from here on out. I truly believe that he's realizing that his days are numbered, that scooping up the ladies ain't gonna be as much of a given as it's been in the past for him (supposedly) and just like the women his appeal will be waning as well. It's like playing deal or no deal. With Lu the banker has offered him a six figure offer and rather than risk the awesome catch in front of him for the possibility of getting a better offer down the line he's realized he'd be really stupid to hold off for maybe something better to come along.

At their ages I find it completely believable that they understand this. I look back at 20+ years of relationships and realize that anything that comes my way took 20 years in the making so I should think carefully about letting good things get away. Especially when there are more dating and relationship years in my past than there are in my future cause let me tell you I don't really plan on being 65 and dating. No ma'am. I think Lu is extra happy cause there probably was a part of her that was preparing to accept life as a single woman. Any reasonable woman would have started to mentally prepare for that outcome so for this to be happening to her I would think the giddiness is extra because she also excited that that sober conclusion doesn't seem to be her fate. So yeah, I get it.

I agree with this but will take it a step further and suggest he might actually have seen the rare "Royal Flush" in Lu and actually fell in love, rather than just his best option going forward.