The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[fonfereksglen]

35 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

I only watched one of his sermons in which he talked about the bible and how people have different interpretations of it.  He interacted with the audience quite a bit, but the whole thing was basically a "let's whine and criticize people who do not believe the things we do" session.  When he did use scripture passages to try and make a point, it was just confusing and bumbling.  He also kept repeating "Does that make sense?" or "Do you understand what I mean?" over and over....  that in itself does not make him sound or look confident at all.  He really needs some serious public speaking courses under his belt.

In our synod, it takes four years of an appropriate college major and then going to a synod seminary  for at least three years .  During the seminary training, the 6 or more months of being a Vicar,  like an intern or student teacher, is the final testing ground.  And even if qualified,  the future pastor, must be called to serve a congregation according to ability. 

JerJer has done none of that, which is why he has no clue.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, fonfereksglen said:

In our synod, it takes four years of an appropriate college major and then going to a synod seminary  for at least three years .  During the seminary training, the 6 or more months of being a Vicar,  like an intern or student teacher, is the final testing ground.  And even if qualified,  the future pastor, must be called to serve a congregation according to ability. 

JerJer has done none of that, which is why he has no clue.

He's taken selfies with a lot of theology books, though. 

[Christina87]

Why are there so many young dudes like this who want to preach without really being qualified? I used to teach with a girl whose husband was an intern with a young adult ministry at a church, and she always talked about money problems, saying she way outearned him (and when we started, beginning teachers made 30K!). The church he interned at didn't even have a physical building either. She taught for two years and then quit her job to be a supportive stay-at-home spouse, and I'm all for living how you think God wants you to, but you've gotta eat!!! Not too long and she was pregnant. The weird thing was, the guy's family had money, and they were over the moon thrilled for the baby. It seemed obvious to me that they were the only ones with the means to pay for the baby's every need, so if they were happy despite financing it, I guess I shouldn't worry about it!

But about a week ago, he announced that God had convinced him to leave his "job," and find a career that can pay for his family. Ironically, God convinced him through fasting (probably because he couldn't afford food!). I wonder if baby #2 is on the way and his family put their foot down about paying for another one, and eventually a large family.

My point is this: why are so many dudes these days wanting to be pretend preachers? This guy is charismatic and intelligent, much more than Jeremy, and while his views are also intolerable, he's a little less unbearable. He has a college degree in a real subject, like business or something, and could easily go to an actual seminary! For instance, if he wanted to be a Methodist minister, he could be making 70K a year as an associate at a good church right out of school! Certainly his parents would fund seminary too, so he'd graduate without debt. I just don't for the life of me understand masquerading as a fake preacher when you could go to school and put forth some effort to be a real one! Same with Jeremy. He could go to an actual seminary associated with a denomination, where he would actually learn preaching skills, and be practically guaranteed a decent paying job forever as long as he didn't mess up too badly. 

Idk about Jeremy, but in my acquaintance's case, I think it's pure laziness. He enjoys having the title and having few responsibilities while having his parents foot the bill. He also seems to have this urgency to spend every second living for God, like, "if I did seminary for a few years, I'd be missing out on doing God's work! I wanna be a pastor now!" I'm glad he's passionate, but he needs to see the big picture.  He can either be a fake preacher now, or delay gratification by a few years and have a sustainable career. Now he will moan and bitch to high heaven about having to do a secular job, no doubt. It's irritating because legitimate seminaries always talk about enrollment being down, so he could go into a well compensated, in demand field!

on the other hand, I know tons of religion majors from college who went to an expensive out of state seminary, only to work at Party City and be a volunteer youth pastor. And this wasn't a flunk out / fail to be a pastor type thing. They specifically went to be a youth pastor! "Oh, I couldn't take on the responsibility of being a senior pastor!" they all said. I assumed there must be some huge market for highly trained youth pastors, but I guess I was wrong about that. None of them have tapped into that market, at least! So...why spend that kind of money to end up in a position that most people volunteer for?

Edited March 18, 2019 by Christina87

[Zella]

I think for them, it's ego, Christina. They want the power and prestige that goes with it and are drawn to the flashier side (like delivering sermons and being known as a preacher) and have much less interest in knowing what they're doing or the harder, emotionally draining, more mundane side of being pastor (pastoral work). 

Some of the creepiest people I went to school with at a religious college wanted to be preachers. They put no real effort into training for it, and many of them were badly unsuited for it. But they didn't care because they were in it to stoke their own ego. 

[GeeGolly]

My family and I have very good friends who have a sibling who's a priest. I've heard his sermons while attending church with my friends for various family events over the years. Every non-religious gathering we go to he's there. He wears street clothes and doesn't talk religion at these gatherings. I'm very much opposed to a couple of his beliefs but we get along fine and he's a really nice guy.

I guess I don't see Jeremy hiding his beliefs any more than this priest does. Just because he doesn't post it on SM doesn't mean he's hiding it. I think that marrying a Duggar is kind of putting your beliefs out there from the first side hug. And the fact that Jeremy chooses to stand in a pulpit and preach fundy beliefs makes it fairly obvious where he stands.

Derick posting mean and hateful thoughts on social media lets me know that he's an unaccepting man without compassion. Tom Cruise arguing that Scientology made him an expert on mental health treatment lets me know he's and idiot. But someone that has beliefs that differ from mine does not let me know who they are as a person.

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, Zella said:

I think for them, it's ego, Christina. They want the power and prestige that goes with it and are drawn to the flashier side (like delivering sermons and being known as a preacher) and have much less interest in knowing what they're doing or the harder, emotionally draining, more mundane side of being pastor (pastoral work). 

Some of the creepiest people I went to school with at a religious college wanted to be preachers. They put no real effort into training for it, and many of them were badly unsuited for it. But they didn't care because they were in it to stoke their own ego. 

Your right. That's exactly what it is ego.  Its not an accident that most of them including Jeremy ended up the Fundie group they are in. Where men are always praised and treated like Gods even though they don't really do anything. They get all the praise without any of the work or education. And certainly without worrying about any kind of charity unless its given to you. If you want to go on vacation? Well, then its missioncations! Sure Jeremy's going to college but not one that's ever going to challenge his beliefs or actually debate anything and there's no women there. If anyone challenges you or your opinion they are of course evil heathens so who cares. You don't even really have to have a job, work hard or do anything. And you'll still be praised for being the best husband, father and most Godly man. 

[Churchhoney]

7 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Why are there so many young dudes like this who want to preach without really being qualified? I used to teach with a girl whose husband was an intern with a young adult ministry at a church, and she always talked about money problems, saying she way outearned him (and when we started, beginning teachers made 30K!). The church he interned at didn't even have a physical building either. She taught for two years and then quit her job to be a supportive stay-at-home spouse, and I'm all for living how you think God wants you to, but you've gotta eat!!! Not too long and she was pregnant. The weird thing was, the guy's family had money, and they were over the moon thrilled for the baby. It seemed obvious to me that they were the only ones with the means to pay for the baby's every need, so if they were happy despite financing it, I guess I shouldn't worry about it!

But about a week ago, he announced that God had convinced him to leave his "job," and find a career that can pay for his family. Ironically, God convinced him through fasting (probably because he couldn't afford food!). I wonder if baby #2 is on the way and his family put their foot down about paying for another one, and eventually a large family.

My point is this: why are so many dudes these days wanting to be pretend preachers? This guy is charismatic and intelligent, much more than Jeremy, and while his views are also intolerable, he's a little less unbearable. He has a college degree in a real subject, like business or something, and could easily go to an actual seminary! For instance, if he wanted to be a Methodist minister, he could be making 70K a year as an associate at a good church right out of school! Certainly his parents would fund seminary too, so he'd graduate without debt. I just don't for the life of me understand masquerading as a fake preacher when you could go to school and put forth some effort to be a real one! Same with Jeremy. He could go to an actual seminary associated with a denomination, where he would actually learn preaching skills, and be practically guaranteed a decent paying job forever as long as he didn't mess up too badly. 

Idk about Jeremy, but in my acquaintance's case, I think it's pure laziness. He enjoys having the title and having few responsibilities while having his parents foot the bill. He also seems to have this urgency to spend every second living for God, like, "if I did seminary for a few years, I'd be missing out on doing God's work! I wanna be a pastor now!" I'm glad he's passionate, but he needs to see the big picture.  He can either be a fake preacher now, or delay gratification by a few years and have a sustainable career. Now he will moan and bitch to high heaven about having to do a secular job, no doubt. It's irritating because legitimate seminaries always talk about enrollment being down, so he could go into a well compensated, in demand field!

on the other hand, I know tons of religion majors from college who went to an expensive out of state seminary, only to work at Party City and be a volunteer youth pastor. And this wasn't a flunk out / fail to be a pastor type thing. They specifically went to be a youth pastor! "Oh, I couldn't take on the responsibility of being a senior pastor!" they all said. I assumed there must be some huge market for highly trained youth pastors, but I guess I was wrong about that. None of them have tapped into that market, at least! So...why spend that kind of money to end up in a position that most people volunteer for?

Being an acknowledged leader of men without having to do anything to earn the designation except stand up and yap while an adoring crowd looks up at you (literally) has pretty strong appeal for a lot of personalities, I'd guess. And it's easy to envision various kinds of pastoring being that way, especially if you don't think very hard.  ;  )

Some people go into other fields, like politics or teaching, for similar reasons. And in this one you get the added bonus of thinking that God sees you as really really special as well.

Plus, if you're being this unrealistic about it, you probably also dream that you'll have to actually do very little. After all, you're already full of faith inspiration so it's just a matter of pouring out that pre-existing wisdom into the eager ears of the crowd.  

Almost all of us have ego and a good helping of laziness, so I'd guess these folks just have a heaping helping of it. And the notion that the world will pay good money for them to just do what comes naturally. Looks like a lot of them ultimately learn otherwise. 

Kind of reminds me of all the people who are absolutely sure that they can and should "write a book." And that crowds are likely to line up to pay money for their amazing words and the stunning story of their lives and wisdom. 

There too it usually turns out that imagining yourself writing a book and actually writing a book are two totally different things....In this case, most people never even get to the trying-to-sell-the-book part. But it sure sounded good back when they were imagining it. 

7 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Why are there so many young dudes like this who want to preach without really being qualified? I used to teach with a girl whose husband was an intern with a young adult ministry at a church, and she always talked about money problems, saying she way outearned him (and when we started, beginning teachers made 30K!). The church he interned at didn't even have a physical building either. She taught for two years and then quit her job to be a supportive stay-at-home spouse, and I'm all for living how you think God wants you to, but you've gotta eat!!! Not too long and she was pregnant. The weird thing was, the guy's family had money, and they were over the moon thrilled for the baby. It seemed obvious to me that they were the only ones with the means to pay for the baby's every need, so if they were happy despite financing it, I guess I shouldn't worry about it!

But about a week ago, he announced that God had convinced him to leave his "job," and find a career that can pay for his family. Ironically, God convinced him through fasting (probably because he couldn't afford food!). I wonder if baby #2 is on the way and his family put their foot down about paying for another one, and eventually a large family.

My point is this: why are so many dudes these days wanting to be pretend preachers? This guy is charismatic and intelligent, much more than Jeremy, and while his views are also intolerable, he's a little less unbearable. He has a college degree in a real subject, like business or something, and could easily go to an actual seminary! For instance, if he wanted to be a Methodist minister, he could be making 70K a year as an associate at a good church right out of school! Certainly his parents would fund seminary too, so he'd graduate without debt. I just don't for the life of me understand masquerading as a fake preacher when you could go to school and put forth some effort to be a real one! Same with Jeremy. He could go to an actual seminary associated with a denomination, where he would actually learn preaching skills, and be practically guaranteed a decent paying job forever as long as he didn't mess up too badly. 

Idk about Jeremy, but in my acquaintance's case, I think it's pure laziness. He enjoys having the title and having few responsibilities while having his parents foot the bill. He also seems to have this urgency to spend every second living for God, like, "if I did seminary for a few years, I'd be missing out on doing God's work! I wanna be a pastor now!" I'm glad he's passionate, but he needs to see the big picture.  He can either be a fake preacher now, or delay gratification by a few years and have a sustainable career. Now he will moan and bitch to high heaven about having to do a secular job, no doubt. It's irritating because legitimate seminaries always talk about enrollment being down, so he could go into a well compensated, in demand field!

on the other hand, I know tons of religion majors from college who went to an expensive out of state seminary, only to work at Party City and be a volunteer youth pastor. And this wasn't a flunk out / fail to be a pastor type thing. They specifically went to be a youth pastor! "Oh, I couldn't take on the responsibility of being a senior pastor!" they all said. I assumed there must be some huge market for highly trained youth pastors, but I guess I was wrong about that. None of them have tapped into that market, at least! So...why spend that kind of money to end up in a position that most people volunteer for?

Being an acknowledged leader of men without having to do anything to earn the designation except stand up and yap while an adoring crowd looks up at you (literally) has pretty strong appeal for a lot of personalities, I'd guess. And it's easy to envision various kinds of pastoring being that way, especially if you don't think very hard.  ;  )

Some people go into other fields, like politics or teaching, for similar reasons. And in this one you get the added bonus of thinking that God sees you as really really special as well.

Plus, if you're being this unrealistic about it, you probably also dream that you'll have to actually do very little. After all, you're already full of faith inspiration so it's just a matter of pouring out that pre-existing wisdom into the eager ears of the crowd.  

Almost all of us have ego and a good helping of laziness, so I'd guess these folks just have a heaping helping of it. And the notion that the world will pay good money for them to just do what comes naturally. Looks like a lot of them ultimately learn otherwise. 

Kind of reminds me of all the people who are absolutely sure that they can and should "write a book." And that crowds are likely to line up to pay money for their amazing words and the stunning story of their lives and wisdom. 

There too it usually turns out that imagining yourself writing a book and actually writing a book are two totally different things....In this case, most people never even get to the trying-to-sell-the-book part. But it sure sounded good back when they were imagining it. 

[Churchhoney]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

My family and I have very good friends who have a sibling who's a priest. I've heard his sermons while attending church with my friends for various family events over the years. Every non-religious gathering we go to he's there. He wears street clothes and doesn't talk religion at these gatherings. I'm very much opposed to a couple of his beliefs but we get along fine and he's a really nice guy.

I guess I don't see Jeremy hiding his beliefs any more than this priest does. Just because he doesn't post it on SM doesn't mean he's hiding it. I think that marrying a Duggar is kind of putting your beliefs out there from the first side hug. And the fact that Jeremy chooses to stand in a pulpit and preach fundy beliefs makes it fairly obvious where he stands.

Derick posting mean and hateful thoughts on social media lets me know that he's an unaccepting man without compassion. Tom Cruise arguing that Scientology made him an expert on mental health treatment lets me know he's and idiot. But someone that has beliefs that differ from mine does not let me know who they are as a person.

Here's what I don't get, though.

Why do mean and hateful social media posts make you a more mean and hateful person than mean and hateful sermons and being a premiere signer of mean and hateful public declarations? 

Especially when the mean and hateful posts and sermons are virtually identical?

Are you just saying that, since you haven't actually heard Jer's rants about Jazz and pastors-sympathetic-to-gay-people and Catholics and so on, that you currently have no basis for judgment?  

Or are you arguing that saying something mean and hateful in a public forum shows you're mean and hateful. But saying the exact same thing in a more private space -- like a church in which you're preaching to a crowd who probably agrees with you already -- shows less about who you are than more clearly public statements? 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Oldernowiser]

I wonder if the difference between being a public hate-spewer (Derrick school of ministry) and a private hate-spewer (Jeremy school of ministry) doesn’t just boil down to one thing: TLC.

Derrick is out and scratching along. Jer is in and living large in his own Metro Minister road show.

(Which might make Derrick slightly less of a hypocrite, albeit still a nasty piece of work.)

[louannems]

I admit to only watching one Jeremy "sermon", and that was the masturbation sermon given to the Howlers.  So I just went on YouTube and watched Jeremy's sermon on Stand Firm, given one month ago.  It was the first to pop up.

I admit to almost always hating to sit through every sermon I ever heard.  My mind always begins wandering and it's just hard for me to stay focused on sermons.  Also, except for weddings and funerals, I quit attending church 18 years ago.

At first, I thought Jeremy was doing pretty good.  He held my attention about the two young women about to be thrown into a den of wild beasts and killed for their beliefs in Jesus.

Then he talked about how a prosperity preacher said that 99.9 percent of people are good people.  And, of course, Jeremy had to lose me saying that no, 100% of us are evil people without Jesus.  So now my mind is wandering and I only pay attention to Jeremy's hands!  I noticed how animated his hand and arm movements were and they seemed to me so overly calculated and like he was acting.

Then he talked about how hard Christians lives are and how percucuted they are!  Just like those women thrown to the beasts!  Yeah, right, Jeremy!

I guess I didn't find him awful, but still, I had to shut it off after just half the sermon.

[Christina87]

5 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Being an acknowledged leader of men without having to do anything to earn the designation except stand up and yap while an adoring crowd looks up at you (literally) has pretty strong appeal for a lot of personalities, I'd guess. And it's easy to envision various kinds of pastoring being that way, especially if you don't think very hard.  ;  )

Some people go into other fields, like politics or teaching, for similar reasons. And in this one you get the added bonus of thinking that God sees you as really really special as well.

Plus, if you're being this unrealistic about it, you probably also dream that you'll have to actually do very little. After all, you're already full of faith inspiration so it's just a matter of pouring out that pre-existing wisdom into the eager ears of the crowd.  

Almost all of us have ego and a good helping of laziness, so I'd guess these folks just have a heaping helping of it. And the notion that the world will pay good money for them to just do what comes naturally. Looks like a lot of them ultimately learn otherwise. 

Kind of reminds me of all the people who are absolutely sure that they can and should "write a book." And that crowds are likely to line up to pay money for their amazing words and the stunning story of their lives and wisdom. 

There too it usually turns out that imagining yourself writing a book and actually writing a book are two totally different things....In this case, most people never even get to the trying-to-sell-the-book part. But it sure sounded good back when they were imagining it. 

Being an acknowledged leader of men without having to do anything to earn the designation except stand up and yap while an adoring crowd looks up at you (literally) has pretty strong appeal for a lot of personalities, I'd guess. And it's easy to envision various kinds of pastoring being that way, especially if you don't think very hard.  ;  )

Some people go into other fields, like politics or teaching, for similar reasons. And in this one you get the added bonus of thinking that God sees you as really really special as well.

Plus, if you're being this unrealistic about it, you probably also dream that you'll have to actually do very little. After all, you're already full of faith inspiration so it's just a matter of pouring out that pre-existing wisdom into the eager ears of the crowd.  

Almost all of us have ego and a good helping of laziness, so I'd guess these folks just have a heaping helping of it. And the notion that the world will pay good money for them to just do what comes naturally. Looks like a lot of them ultimately learn otherwise. 

Kind of reminds me of all the people who are absolutely sure that they can and should "write a book." And that crowds are likely to line up to pay money for their amazing words and the stunning story of their lives and wisdom. 

There too it usually turns out that imagining yourself writing a book and actually writing a book are two totally different things....In this case, most people never even get to the trying-to-sell-the-book part. But it sure sounded good back when they were imagining it. 

Omg you are so right about all this! Everything you said describes this guy to a tee. He definitely comes across as thinking he's smarter than everyone else. His dad is a lawyer, so he probably has intelligence in his genes, as well as being raised in an intellectually stimulating environment, much like Jeremy. I DO think this guy I know is smarter than Jeremy, and more charismatic; he should have married a duggar! He thinks because he's smart and high class that he's super speshul, and should be adored by the common man. The fact that he is legitimately good looking adds to the persona, too. And I think he led some sort of Christian ministry in college. His wife, who he dated like a month in college before proposing, swoons over how alllll the girls wanted him because he was up in their ministry's pulpit. Gag me! But I was very put off when my friend who attends his "church" got married, and he preached at their wedding. It was all done in the tone of the ten-year-old classroom suckup, whining, "God especially favors them because they didn't kiss before marriage, and they had chaperones!" Fundie to the core. I've never heard a wedding sermon that insulted 99% of the guests (the 1% being children too young to ha e kissed anybody). It made me think, "why does this 25-year-old twerp without any kind of religion degree think he can tell all of these adults, with jobs and life experience, what to do?" I was at the wedding with a friend who is also fundie, and didn't kiss before marriage either, and even she thought the sermon was over the top. I feel sorry for this dude's wife, too. She is a really sweet girl, and I enjoyed hanging out with her when we worked together. She's basically julie Andrews from the sound of music 24/7, but she deserves a captain von trapp, not a little boy with a superiority complex. I'm interested to see how quickly he finds a real career in this market, where I can't even get a secretarial job, but sadly, being a man will help him. He probably has some good old boy connections from his fake church, too. 

I would hate to be his wife, though. She's the absolute perfect fundie wife, but her headship has kept them in poverty trying to live out his dreams that he's not even qualified for. 

7 minutes ago, louannems said:

I admit to only watching one Jeremy "sermon", and that was the masturbation sermon given to the Howlers.  So I just went on YouTube and watched Jeremy's sermon on Stand Firm, given one month ago.  It was the first to pop up.

I admit to almost always hating to sit through every sermon I ever heard.  My mind always begins wandering and it's just hard for me to stay focused on sermons.  Also, except for weddings and funerals, I quit attending church 18 years ago.

At first, I thought Jeremy was doing pretty good.  He held my attention about the two young women about to be thrown into a den of wild beasts and killed for their beliefs in Jesus.

Then he talked about how a prosperity preacher said that 99.9 percent of people are good people.  And, of course, Jeremy had to lose me saying that no, 100% of us are evil people without Jesus.  So now my mind is wandering and I only pay attention to Jeremy's hands!  I noticed how animated his hand and arm movements were and they seemed to me so overly calculated and like he was acting.

Then he talked about how hard Christians lives are and how percucuted they are!  Just like those women thrown to the beasts!  Yeah, right, Jeremy!

I guess I didn't find him awful, but still, I had to shut it off after just half the sermon.

You're right about the hand motions! It's jarring to me how he never looks up, but does the hand motions. To me, I feel like you should be looking me in the eye if you're using hand motions, not down. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Christina87

[Lisa418722]

Way back in the day when I was in college, I had to take a speech class for my major.  One of the guys in the class was studying theology and wanted to be a preacher (this was a public university so that always seemed a little odd to me). Anyway our speeches were supposed to last between 3-5 minutes. His speeches, no matter the topic, lasted over 30 minutes.  Finally the professor stopped putting him early in the class.  All I could think was "I feel sorry for your congregation" because the speeches went on and on and on and were BORING. 

I attempted to watch one of Jeremy's sermons and it reminded me of this guy.  He goes on and on and on without anything interesting. 

[ChiCricket]

16 hours ago, Christina87 said:

My point is this: why are so many dudes these days wanting to be pretend preachers?

I'll take a stab at this. For the adoration of their flock?

(basing this on both my cousin and my sister, who basically think their pastors walk on water.)

Edited March 18, 2019 by ChiCricket
Basically what a lot of you already said above. 😁

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, louannems said:

I admit to only watching one Jeremy "sermon", and that was the masturbation sermon given to the Howlers.  So I just went on YouTube and watched Jeremy's sermon on Stand Firm, given one month ago.  It was the first to pop up.

I admit to almost always hating to sit through every sermon I ever heard.  My mind always begins wandering and it's just hard for me to stay focused on sermons.  Also, except for weddings and funerals, I quit attending church 18 years ago.

At first, I thought Jeremy was doing pretty good.  He held my attention about the two young women about to be thrown into a den of wild beasts and killed for their beliefs in Jesus.

Then he talked about how a prosperity preacher said that 99.9 percent of people are good people.  And, of course, Jeremy had to lose me saying that no, 100% of us are evil people without Jesus.  So now my mind is wandering and I only pay attention to Jeremy's hands!  I noticed how animated his hand and arm movements were and they seemed to me so overly calculated and like he was acting.

Then he talked about how hard Christians lives are and how percucuted they are!  Just like those women thrown to the beasts!  Yeah, right, Jeremy!

I guess I didn't find him awful, but still, I had to shut it off after just half the sermon.

He's definitely better now than he was a year or two ago. Earlier, he wouldn't have led with a compelling story, for example. So he is improving, it looks like to me.....Very very slowly, though. 

(I'll never agree with him,  of course, when he complains about being in a city full of potentially demonic Catholics or harshly condemns any Christian ministers who say they have sympathy for the feelings of gay people when they want to marry their partners. But his skills are growing slightly, no question in my mind about that. And that's certainly to his credit. Although I think they ought to grow faster!)

Edited March 18, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Scarlett45]

On 3/17/2019 at 11:39 AM, cmr2014 said:

Patriarchy does not require cruelty towards women, and children -- that's simply a by-product in some (many) cases.

It's entirely possible for Jeremy to be 100% behind McArthur and his beliefs and be nice to his wife, and love his daughter. If he's not, though, it doesn't matter -- and that's the problem. It's arguably worse that Jeremy and Jinger put an attractive face on this lifestyle that creates so much misery for so many women and children around the world.

Yeah exactly. I think often people confuse basic kindness with ideas of equality. I think most patriarchal men ARENT mean or nasty to their wife/children. It’s human nature to be nice to the person meeting all of your basic needs (partnered sex, domestic support, social support etc). Just because they are nice/kind/considerate doesn’t mean they consider their wives to be their equals. 

[Ijustwantsomechips]

To answer why so many unqualified men choose to be pastors, I can only answer from my background.  In the African-American Baptist churches I grew up in in the deep south, pastors were either the son of a pastor, or they felt a calling on their lives from God.  Needless to say those that felt the calling were generally the better pastors.  Learning to preach was part of the skill, but so where the theatrics involved, which is why you could visit another church or attend a revival and hear similar inflections in tone, a common tempo, etc.  

Nowadays, and even a few scoundrels back then got into ministry for power, prestige and money.  Do not underestimate the earning potential of a prosperity pastor of a mega church.  My sister attended Leroy Thompson’s church and he has a private jet.  And I love my church, but I know my pastor is in the six figures.  To his credit, he’s an awesome pastor though.  

Being a pastor also comes with people at your every beck and call, adoration, access to women (yes, it happens), a tremendous amount of authority, and the ability to inject yourself into people’s personal decisions.  

These young guys with stars in their eyes aren’t considering all the time you spend with the sick and shut in, funerals, dealing with the deacons and board of trustees, drama from the choir (because there’s always drama from the choir), managing the different ministries, being available around the clock, dealing with complaints and issues, keeping butts in the pews, creating and delivering educational but moving sermons,  attending to and being responsible for each member’s spiritual wellbeing, keeping the collection plate full to maintain and grow the chuch, all while trying to maintain your own life and family.  They’re not interested in any of those things.  It’s all money, fancy suits and having the largest flock.  

My uncle is a preacher, not a pastor, and it’s demanding even for him.  I like to think you need to be called to that profession, not apply because you are interested.

[fonfereksglen]

15 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

To answer why so many unqualified men choose to be pastors, I can only answer from my background.  In the African-American Baptist churches I grew up in in the deep south, pastors were either the son of a pastor, or they felt a calling on their lives from God.  Needless to say those that felt the calling were generally the better pastors.  Learning to preach was part of the skill, but so where the theatrics involved, which is why you could visit another church or attend a revival and hear similar inflections in tone, a common tempo, etc.  

Nowadays, and even a few scoundrels back then got into ministry for power, prestige and money.  Do not underestimate the earning potential of a prosperity pastor of a mega church.  My sister attended Leroy Thompson’s church and he has a private jet.  And I love my church, but I know my pastor is in the six figures.  To his credit, he’s an awesome pastor though.  

Being a pastor also comes with people at your every beck and call, adoration, access to women (yes, it happens), a tremendous amount of authority, and the ability to inject yourself into people’s personal decisions.  

These young guys with stars in their eyes aren’t considering all the time you spend with the sick and shut in, funerals, dealing with the deacons and board of trustees, drama from the choir (because there’s always drama from the choir), managing the different ministries, being available around the clock, dealing with complaints and issues, keeping butts in the pews, creating and delivering educational but moving sermons,  attending to and being responsible for each member’s spiritual wellbeing, keeping the collection plate full to maintain and grow the chuch, all while trying to maintain your own life and family.  They’re not interested in any of those things.  It’s all money, fancy suits and having the largest flock.  

My uncle is a preacher, not a pastor, and it’s demanding even for him.  I like to think you need to be called to that profession, not apply because you are interested.

Drama from the choir!!!!  Absolutely!

[Zella]

32 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

To answer why so many unqualified men choose to be pastors, I can only answer from my background.  In the African-American Baptist churches I grew up in in the deep south, pastors were either the son of a pastor, or they felt a calling on their lives from God.  Needless to say those that felt the calling were generally the better pastors.  Learning to preach was part of the skill, but so where the theatrics involved, which is why you could visit another church or attend a revival and hear similar inflections in tone, a common tempo, etc.  

Nowadays, and even a few scoundrels back then got into ministry for power, prestige and money.  Do not underestimate the earning potential of a prosperity pastor of a mega church.  My sister attended Leroy Thompson’s church and he has a private jet.  And I love my church, but I know my pastor is in the six figures.  To his credit, he’s an awesome pastor though.  

Being a pastor also comes with people at your every beck and call, adoration, access to women (yes, it happens), a tremendous amount of authority, and the ability to inject yourself into people’s personal decisions.  

These young guys with stars in their eyes aren’t considering all the time you spend with the sick and shut in, funerals, dealing with the deacons and board of trustees, drama from the choir (because there’s always drama from the choir), managing the different ministries, being available around the clock, dealing with complaints and issues, keeping butts in the pews, creating and delivering educational but moving sermons,  attending to and being responsible for each member’s spiritual wellbeing, keeping the collection plate full to maintain and grow the chuch, all while trying to maintain your own life and family.  They’re not interested in any of those things.  It’s all money, fancy suits and having the largest flock.  

My uncle is a preacher, not a pastor, and it’s demanding even for him.  I like to think you need to be called to that profession, not apply because you are interested.

This is a wonderful description of what attracts the wrong people to it and also what the right people really do in this field. Simply liking your post wasn't enough. 🙂 

[marypat57]

There's always drama in the choir!  As a 24 year member of my choir, I can certainly attest to that. 

My favorite choir quote is "When you sing, you're only giving back the voice God gave to you--whether He wants it back or not". 

[GeeGolly]

13 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Here's what I don't get, though.

Why do mean and hateful social media posts make you a more mean and hateful person than mean and hateful sermons and being a premiere signer of mean and hateful public declarations? 

Especially when the mean and hateful posts and sermons are virtually identical?

Are you just saying that, since you haven't actually heard Jer's rants about Jazz and pastors-sympathetic-to-gay-people and Catholics and so on, that you currently have no basis for judgment?  

Or are you arguing that saying something mean and hateful in a public forum shows you're mean and hateful. But saying the exact same thing in a more private space -- like a church in which you're preaching to a crowd who probably agrees with you already -- shows less about who you are than more clearly public statements? 

My point is there are folks against terminating pregnancies. Some of these folks will shame and embarrass anyone who believes or does differently and there are others who believe the same however would never even think of hurting someone because of a belief or an action that differs from theirs. There are folks who are anti LGBTQ but would still make them a wedding cake without a second thought and as we all know there are folks who won't.

So yes, I believe spewing hate on SM is different than 'preaching to the choir'. I believe kind folks can have whacky beliefs. I also believe many folks who share my beliefs are straight up assholes. I guess I just have a hard time lumping everyone together and having the same intensity of negative or positive feelings toward them all. 

[Churchhoney]

16 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

My point is there are folks against terminating pregnancies. Some of these folks will shame and embarrass anyone who believes or does differently and there are others who believe the same however would never even think of hurting someone because of a belief or an action that differs from theirs. There are folks who are anti LGBTQ but would still make them a wedding cake without a second thought and as we all know there are folks who won't.

So yes, I believe spewing hate on SM is different than 'preaching to the choir'. I believe kind folks can have whacky beliefs. I also believe many folks who share my beliefs are straight up assholes. I guess I just have a hard time lumping everyone together and having the same intensity of negative or positive feelings toward them all. 

Quite true. Makes sense. ;  )

My response and interpretation are based on the way I interpret Jer's affect during the sermons. In the ones I've seen where he's railed against gay rights and Catholics and so on, he hasn't looked to me like a person who sorrowfully loved the sinner but just hated the sin or as if he were just stating a faith principle. Instead, he spoke with what sounded to me like true condemnation.

He got snarly and sarcastic and passionate in a way that he almost never was in the rest of the sermons where he was talking about other stuff, at least as far as I observed....Based on his fervent delivery of these things -- compared to his pretty sleepy delivery of most everything else -- I've gotten the strong impression that, just exactly as with Der, these are the things Jer cares about most. Although I certainly haven't watched everything!

So that's what I'm going on............

As you say, hard to know what he'd do if he were called upon to act on these things in real life. I'm not sure I know what Der would do, either.

Would either of these guys actually walk up to Jazz and her parents and say to their faces the very condemnatory things they've said in other venues? Would they walk up to a Catholic and call him or her out for embracing a "demonic" (Jer's word) faith? 

I kind of doubt that either would. .... Although I think cowardice more than kindness might be the likelier explanation for that, in both their cases......Although who knows?

I do think that all of these people are bigoted and mean in large part because they're big enough scaredy cats to keep themselves isolated from anybody who's different enough to make them nervous.  

Edited March 19, 2019 by Churchhoney

[DangerousMinds]

What is causing Jinger’s hair loss? Is it post partum hair loss, an eating disorder? It happened to Jessa too.

[tabloidlover]

Postpartum hair loss.  It’s a really shitty side effect of having a baby.  She needs to buy some Biotin to help out.  Works wonders!

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I do think that all of these people are bigoted and mean in large part because they're big enough scaredy cats to keep themselves isolated from anybody who's different enough to make them nervous.  

And that's right where they belong.

[luvbadtv]

35 minutes ago, tabloidlover said:

Postpartum hair loss.  It’s a really shitty side effect of having a baby.  She needs to buy some Biotin to help out.  Works wonders!

It also could be a thyroid problem.  Mine whacked out after I delivered my first baby and hairloss was one of the signs.

[ginger90]

[Ijustwantsomechips]

Jinger really should work on her posture. It’s atrocious!

[Christina87]

I lost my hair (and outer eyebrows) when I gained 50 pounds and had a migraine every day. You can't tell me that doesn't sound like thyroid! The hair loss came right before the weight gain, and I took biotin for it. Then, this random nurse told me that biotin had made her gain weight, so I got scared and quit taking it, since I'd gained maybe 10 pounds at that point. The weight gain didn't stop, though, so I don't think biotin was responsible, but I'm superstitious about it now. It DID help me regrow hair, however!

To get back on topic, Jessa was going through her postpartum hair loss when mine was falling out, and believe it or not, "commiserating" with Jessa was the one thing that made me feel better about that! I would often pause the tv and take pics of the screen when it showed a bald spot, and I'd look at the pictures in my darkest moments. I knew Jessa also cares about her appearance, so I knew she felt my pain. 

In a way, though, I feel like I got gypped! Basically, I had baby weight and hair loss, but didn't get the baby! Plus, I was jealous, because new mothers with a belly and thinning hair had a baby to hold over their stomach and ragged hair, whereas I did not. 😜

[awaken]

56 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Jinger really should work on her posture. It’s atrocious!

Like mother, like daughter!  She may take after Michelle in the hunching over department. 

[Zella]

The missing back muscle is genetic?!?!

[Ijustwantsomechips]

Someone should introduce her to posture bras or a good waist trainer that’ll straighten her up.  She’s too young for that.  With the posture and all the hair, she looks like an oak tree in saturated ground; she’s ready to tip at any moment.   

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Someone should introduce her to posture bras or a good waist trainer that’ll straighten her up.  She’s too young for that.  With the posture and all the hair, she looks like an oak tree in saturated ground; she’s ready to tip at any moment.   

She would also benefit from ballet, pilates, or yoga.  The ballet classes I took as a kid definitely helped me with my posture, but I had parents who did not deem dancing as sinful.  

[allonsyalice]

oh yeah, I wear a waist cincher sometimes, for purely vain reasons, and it always makes me sit and stand very straight. That and lindy hop has changed my posture forever. Jinger is just standing at a weird angle, making her lean. She needs something.

[ChiCricket]

15 hours ago, awaken said:

Like mother, like daughter!  She may take after Michelle in the hunching over department. 

I wonder if she ever was screened for Scoliosis, like they do for kids in public schools?

Edited March 20, 2019 by ChiCricket

[fonfereksglen]

17 minutes ago, ChiCricket said:

I wonder if she ever was screened for Scoliosis, like they do for kids in public schools?

Good thought and I wondered that as well.   I slouched, still do, and was yelled at constantly in grade school to stand up straight!   As a young adult, it turned out that I have congentital scoliosis at the BASE of my spine and the slouching was a compensation for that weakness.  

[Ijustwantsomechips]

1 hour ago, allonsyalice said:

oh yeah, I wear a waist cincher sometimes, for purely vain reasons, and it always makes me sit and stand very straight. That and lindy hop has changed my posture forever. Jinger is just standing at a weird angle, making her lean. She needs something.

Jinger is significantly shorter than Jeremy, but I wonder if it her posture is some kind of subconscious effort to appear meek, petite and submissive?  You know, all the things Gothard teaches a desirable woman and wife should be.  In  this and other pictures, it’s like she doesn’t want to appear strong or confident which standing straight would convey. 

[BigBingerBro]

3 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

I wonder if she ever was screened for Scoliosis, like they do for kids in public schools?

Do they still do that?  I thought I heard they stopped that.

[DangerousMinds]

8 hours ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Someone should introduce her to posture bras or a good waist trainer that’ll straighten her up.  She’s too young for that.  With the posture and all the hair, she looks like an oak tree in saturated ground; she’s ready to tip at any moment.   

I honestly doubt she is really eating well enough.

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, BigBingerBro said:

Do they still do that?  I thought I heard they stopped that.

I don’t know if schools still do, but I know the pediatricians my grandchildren have, do.

[DangerousMinds]

12 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

I don’t know if schools still do, but I know the pediatricians my grandchildren have, do.

The reason for these checks on school was because many kids did not have a pediatrician, or their parents didn’t take them to see him/her.

[ChiCricket]

If we see one of those click bait articles saying:

"Fans worry Jinger Duggar has this disease!!!"

you heard it from me on this board first. 😁

I swear their articles always sound like stuff we've all been discussing.

Edited March 21, 2019 by ChiCricket

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, ChiCricket said:

If we see one of those click bait articles saying:

"Fans worry Jinger Duggar has this disease!!!"

you heard it from me on this board first. 😁

I swear their articles always sound like stuff we've all been discussing.

They should change the name of this Duggar board to "You Heard It Here First." 

[Christina87]

6 hours ago, fonfereksglen said:

Good thought and I wondered that as well.   I slouched, still do, and was yelled at constantly in grade school to stand up straight!   As a young adult, it turned out that I have congentital scoliosis at the BASE of my spine and the slouching was a compensation for that weakness.  

I've always wondered if I had scoliosis. I was screened in school and passed, but have slouched forever. I really wonder if my boobs have something to do with it (definitely not bragging...they are heavy!!!), or my height, since I always had to slouch in school desks. Also, my neck is really far forward, which is part of my migraine issue. 

[mynextmistake]

On 3/19/2019 at 4:56 PM, ginger90 said:

The shirtdress is very fashion forward, but what’s up with the heavy black shoes? Add some tan support hose and she could be Michelle from the knees down. Or the Wicked Witch of the West, not that there’s really any difference between the two.

Felicity is really a beautiful baby. It looks like she’s a happy one too! 

I don’t think Jeremy is dumb. He’s obviously not Einstein, but he seemingly did well enough in his undergraduate program to get admitted to the MBA program at Syracuse. 

[GeeGolly]

I've always had good posture. About three months after having my first child I was at a wedding shower. A couple weeks later (camera w/film to be developed) I saw the photos and I was shocked seeing my slouch. I think my problem was because I had been carrying about 30lbs directly in the front for a couple of months. Once the baby and weight was gone I kind of caved in. Probably due to weakened abdominal muscles and no longer having to extend myself back to support the weight.

When I realized how poor my posture had become I made a conscious effort to stand up straight and in no time my posture improved. I'm built similarly to Jinger. Maybe she's experiencing the same thing?

[Churchhoney]

7 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

I don’t think Jeremy is dumb. He’s obviously not Einstein, but he seemingly did well enough in his undergraduate program to get admitted to the MBA program at Syracuse. 

I don't know what the story is. But listen to some of his sermons. If he's not dumb, then he certainly appears to be intellectually lazy. Or maybe he's sort of good at some parts of math or has selling skills or "talk your way in" skills or whatever. He has no gift for either language or conceptual thought, it seems to me. Or if he has any gift, he virtually never uses it.

Of course at Syracuse his clear intention was to go into a graduate program for a single year after finishing his bachelor's as an athlete the school really wanted to keep for that final year of his soccer availability.

And from things that have been written about that time, there's no doubt that he fully intended to leave after that year to pursue his pro soccer career. He didn't enter the program as a person intending to finish it. Wouldn't totally surprise me if they lowered the admissions standards somewhat for people in that position. They feel pretty confident they'll never have to award you their degree, so why not? 

On the other hand, Bloomberg here ranks the Syracuse MBA as the 64th best in the country (i.e., good but not great....Their online program gets ranked higher among the purely online programs -- coming in 22nd in this ranking, for example. https://thebestschools.org/rankings/best-online-mba-programs/   But as I understand it he was in the on-campus program). https://voices.whitman.syr.edu/student-life/masters/syracuse-universitys-mba-ranked-64-by-bloomberg-businessweek

So you could probably get in there with some strong specifically business-related talents -- which Jer may well have, as evidenced by what I consider his quite savvy networking and job-seeking program --   but little common sense or any of the intellect that you'd need to qualify as a smart theologian or as a highly intelligent person overall.

I know plenty of people who are apparently smart in one area but who I'd say are really not smart at all in general. Including some high-paid lawyers from Harvard and Yale, PhDs from top schools and medical doctors. Maybe that's his story. (I sort of suspect it is, which is why I think his search for a top-level preacher job may end in success, at least temporarily.)

Edited March 21, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Ijustwantsomechips]

21 hours ago, Christina87 said:

I've always wondered if I had scoliosis. I was screened in school and passed, but have slouched forever. I really wonder if my boobs have something to do with it (definitely not bragging...they are heavy!!!), or my height, since I always had to slouch in school desks. Also, my neck is really far forward, which is part of my migraine issue. 

Heavy boobs will do it.  I wore an I cup (yes, an I) before my reduction and lift.  Once that healed, my posture improved instantly.  

Edited March 21, 2019 by Ijustwantsomechips

[queenanne]

5 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I don't know what the story is. But listen to some of his sermons. If he's not dumb, then he certainly appears to be intellectually lazy. Or maybe he's sort of good at some parts of math or has selling skills or "talk your way in" skills or whatever. He has no gift for either language or conceptual thought, it seems to me. Or if he has any gift, he virtually never uses it.

Of course at Syracuse his clear intention was to go into a graduate program for a single year after finishing his bachelor's as an athlete the school really wanted to keep for that final year of his soccer availability.

And from things that have been written about that time, there's no doubt that he fully intended to leave after that year to pursue his pro soccer career. He didn't enter the program as a person intending to finish it. Wouldn't totally surprise me if they lowered the admissions standards somewhat for people in that position. They feel pretty confident they'll never have to award you their degree, so why not? 

On the other hand, Bloomberg here ranks the Syracuse MBA as the 64th best in the country (i.e., good but not great....Their online program gets ranked higher among the purely online programs -- coming in 22nd in this ranking, for example. https://thebestschools.org/rankings/best-online-mba-programs/   But as I understand it he was in the on-campus program). https://voices.whitman.syr.edu/student-life/masters/syracuse-universitys-mba-ranked-64-by-bloomberg-businessweek

So you could probably get in there with some strong specifically business-related talents -- which Jer may well have, as evidenced by what I consider his quite savvy networking and job-seeking program --   but little common sense or any of the intellect that you'd need to qualify as a smart theologian or as a highly intelligent person overall.

I know plenty of people who are apparently smart in one area but who I'd say are really not smart at all in general. Including some high-paid lawyers from Harvard and Yale, PhDs from top schools and medical doctors. Maybe that's his story. (I sort of suspect it is, which is why I think his search for a top-level preacher job may end in success, at least temporarily.)

I remember an attorney once telling me ‘Most lawyers are in fact poor writers, and in many firms this generally results in there being one poor talented sucker functioning as the ‘designated writer’, whom everyone then piles on to write their briefs and memos’.

[farmgal4]

On 3/19/2019 at 9:25 PM, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Jinger really should work on her posture. It’s atrocious!

Her posture is exactly like Michelle’s. 😣

[Churchhoney]

28 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

Her posture is exactly like Michelle’s. 😣

Wonder if Michelle had this same posture when she'd only had one kid? I always thought it probably related to the many stresses her back and abdominal muscles have had over the years..... but maybe not?