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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

GeeGolly
GeeGolly

My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

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doodlebug

doodlebug

(edited)
13 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read that Anna and her parents knew about Josh and the molestations before the marriage, and yet, agreed to it anyway?

Anna has said that they did, but, of course, there's no independent verification,  Many of us think that Anna and her family were given a vague, sugar-coated  notion of what happened and didn't know the actual facts.  Telling them that, as a young teen was 'curious' about girls and crossed the line a couple of times is very different than telling them that he touched his 4 of his sisters, including a 4 year old, inappropriately on multiple occasions.

Remember, these are people who believe it is wrong for people who are not engaged to be alone together or to hold hands; I think JB and M implied that Josh did a little canoodling with a girlfriend and not that he was a serial molester.

Edited by doodlebug
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kokapetl

kokapetl

Jeremy has a charismatic edge v JimBob, so I think he worked that crowd (of one) and ultimately didn't have to fill in a questionnaire. Goober Austyn Martyn would have completed it. 

I assume the "correct" answer to most of the questions is no. 

13 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

So those questions are issued by JB and he analyzes the answers for suitability?  does the girl in question get to see that or just JB?  I wonder if anything is negotiable - guessing not.  

It's weird. Who would be the person who would ask for therapy without any resistance? The wife or her dad?

Annb67

Annb67

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:
Quote

310. Can I see your last 4 months worth of bank statements?

377. How often do you go to the altar?

384. Do you suffer from any chronic disease or condition?
385. Are you willing to take a physical exam by a physician before marriage?
386. What is your understanding of proper health and nutrition?
387. How do you support your own health and nutrition?406. How do you respond when you see a girl that isn’t dressed right?
407. Would you describe for me what you think is wrong or what bothers you about a lewdly dressed woman.
408. Would you have a Curse Free Unit?

421. What happens when someone talks to you or comes in the room while you are watching a movie or playing a video game?

 

More funny answers..

310. Hell no. Can I see yours?

377. The altar? Is that a new bar?

384. I'm allergic to bullshit. I'm fact I'm breaking out in hives now.

385. You mean by Dr. Fedowski? No. Btw boob, ever hear of HIPPA?

386. My understanding is that Tater Tot casserole and chickenetti isn't it. And I support it by not eating the above mentioned.

406. I'm probably not one to ask. I don't have any sense of style.

407. Describe lewd jim Boob

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Temperance

Temperance

(edited)
8 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

Over 400 questions!

Games:
413. Do you play games?
414. Do you have any problems with the following:
415. Board Games?
416. Dice? 
417. Playing Cards? (not gambling) 

These are the things that matter. 

One of my friends just married a guy she met on-line. Both of their profiles mentioned boardgames, which is why she agreed to start chatting online. 

Edited by Temperance
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

44 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read that Anna and her parents knew about Josh and the molestations before the marriage, and yet, agreed to it anyway?

That's what they say. 

Who knows what the truth is, of course. 

31 minutes ago, Annb67 said:

What the hell is a curse free unit?

One that I don't live in? Or you either, apparently. 

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floridamom

floridamom

My opinion is that Anna really didn't know all the facts about Joshley's young actions with his sisters. Anna wasn't able to hear about such things as it would render her mind to not be pure as their definition of purity IS. I'm sure all 3 Kellars were told some watered down "Duggar truth" about it...blah, blah, blah, Josh is a changed guy, a wonderful Christian man, etc...lies, lies, lies.

Referencing my earlier post, would Mr. Kellar consider Anna's marriage to be invalid since Josh was continuing with 'bad things' after confessing being a changed man? IMO, Josh lied during his marriage vows.

Curse free unit:  My guess is he's asking if the guy's family has a Generation Curse on it.

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Nysha

Nysha

16 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Referencing my earlier post, would Mr. Kellar consider Anna's marriage to be invalid since Josh was continuing with 'bad things' after confessing being a changed man? IMO, Josh lied during his marriage vows.

Curse free unit:  My guess is he's asking if the guy's family has a Generation Curse on it.

Since both Mr. and Mrs. Keller encouraged Anna to stay with Josh after his confession, I don't Mr. Keller thinks the marriage is invalid. He might not have any respect for Josh but being married to a porn-addicted Christian loser is still less shameful than being a divorced single mom.

I'm pretty sure the curse-free unit is supposed to imply that there will be no swearing or pseudo-swearing in the applicant's home.

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xwordfanatik

xwordfanatik

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Anna has said that they did, but, of course, there's no independent verification,  Many of us think that Anna and her family were given a vague, sugar-coated  notion of what happened and didn't know the actual facts.  Telling them that, as a young teen was 'curious' about girls and crossed the line a couple of times is very different than telling them that he touched his 4 of his sisters, including a 4 year old, inappropriately on multiple occasions.

Remember, these are people who believe it is wrong for people who are not engaged to be alone together or to hold hands; I think JB and M implied that Josh did a little canoodling with a girlfriend and not that he was a serial molester.

Thank you.  

I can't believe that women would go along with that patriarchal bullshit in this day and age, but I've had it happen in my family, as recently as the 90's.  

So sad for those that have that kind of upbringing, and mindset.  

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mythoughtis

mythoughtis

(edited)

I will concede that some of the questions are meant to see if the people have common interests, or conflicting beliefs. But it's just way too invasive to give answers to a family unit where you haven't even said more than hello to the woman in question.  Most of these should be discussion topics between the parties themselves in private even in the Duggar courtship world.  I would show an almost fiancée my bank/credit card statements if he was worried about my debt load- but not a guy I'm meeting for drinks or just sometimes dating. 

I'm pretty sure that Jeremy and Jinger had discussions either on missions, or over at Ben and Jessa's about how he would  fill out this questionnaire.  Derick didn't because he couldn't even have a private Skype conversation with Jill. 

Edited by mythoughtis
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queenanne

queenanne

2 hours ago, Annb67 said:

What the hell is a curse free unit?

Someone on a comment page of the thread, said it's something a little like this, so the equivalent of a cable box that blanks out swears:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OkKxAlJ5jTkJ:https://www.wired.com/1999/08/a-ministers-curse-free-tv/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

https://www.amazon.com/TVGuardian-The-Foul-Language-Filter/dp/B000WZ16RY

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latetotheparty

latetotheparty

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21 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Someone on a comment page of the thread, said it's something a little like this, so the equivalent of a cable box that blanks out swears:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OkKxAlJ5jTkJ:https://www.wired.com/1999/08/a-ministers-curse-free-tv/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

https://www.amazon.com/TVGuardian-The-Foul-Language-Filter/dp/B000WZ16RY

Oh for fucks sake. 

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Genevrier

Genevrier

28 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Someone on a comment page of the thread, said it's something a little like this, so the equivalent of a cable box that blanks out swears:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OkKxAlJ5jTkJ:https://www.wired.com/1999/08/a-ministers-curse-free-tv/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

https://www.amazon.com/TVGuardian-The-Foul-Language-Filter/dp/B000WZ16RY

Holy poopies.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

(edited)
On 7/10/2017 at 6:23 PM, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, I know. But here's my point (and I get that nobody who hasn't lived something like this is likely to understand what I mean, but here it is anyway:)  if Jinger didn't actually know what friendship is -- and in that family she wouldn't, if my similar experience is a guide (and of course it may not be) -- then her saying that means little or nothing about whether they were actually "close" the way most people would think of "closeness" or "BFFs" or whatever. When I was a kid, I thought I knew what those things were, too, because my parents told me that I did and told me what they were. Jinger's parents have told her that, too. But if the Duggar parents are doing what I expect they're doing -- completely squelching all honesty, all privacy, all honest feeling, all intimacy, all opportunity for actual trust -- then they had only the very shallowest of "friendships" even though it was the biggest thing in Jinger's life, nevertheless. 

It's the way everybody always complains about the girls gushing over how they've "married my best friend" when it's somebody they barely know. But if I'm right, then their concepts of what "best friend" means are so shallow and pitiful that in fact they're not lying at all. It's the way they envision friendship. Because they've never been allowed to know what it mean.s 

So that's what's going on if the Duggar parents are the way I think they are. On the other hand, of the Duggar parents are different from the way I believe they are, then you may well be right in thinking that Jinger and Jessa had a real, deep friendship of the kind that most people envision. That's all I'm saying. 

As a therapist I'm always asking my clients "So what does that look like for you?", if they say they're depressed or experiencing anxiety, etc. I've had many discussions with clients about family members and partners and there are so many definitions of relationships from detached to enmeshed and the folks living them often don't realize that not everyone experiences life the same way.

What's worse is the Duggars are so isolated from the real world its almost impossible for them to know that real life "is done a little differently".

Michelle takes it a step further using the word friend in such a patronizing and condescending way when referring to people she has just met. I fully believe they have no idea closeness can be very deep, because as we have all agreed, they don't even know themselves to any depth.

Edited by GeeGolly
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Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

54 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Yeah, I exhort everyone to read the Wired link (hopefully it works for all), because this stuff is a satirical dream come true.

Haha! I would love to know how they figure out when a word should be blocked. Context, I guess...for instance, the list of objectionable words included "balls"...which is a perfectly acceptable word in most instances. What if you are watching tennis? 

Also loved how they talked about "tweaking" the units when early ones substituted things like "Jerk van Gay" for"Dick Van Dyke" LOL

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Annb67

Annb67

(edited)
1 hour ago, queenanne said:

Someone on a comment page of the thread, said it's something a little like this, so the equivalent of a cable box that blanks out swears:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OkKxAlJ5jTkJ:https://www.wired.com/1999/08/a-ministers-curse-free-tv/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

https://www.amazon.com/TVGuardian-The-Foul-Language-Filter/dp/B000WZ16RY

The fuck? 

Oh well, obviously in my house it would overheat and burst into flames?

3 hours ago, floridamom said:

I wonder if a guy lied on the questionnaire to get the 'ok' from Jim Bob, ended up marrying one of his daughters and a few years later it was discovered by JB that his son-in-law lied on the questionnaire, would he consider the marriage INVALID? What would daddy do then?

Shit his pants. Oh wait...alert the curse free unit. 

Edited by Annb67
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xwordfanatik

xwordfanatik

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

As a therapist I'm always asking my clients "So what does that look like for you?", if they say they're depressed or experiencing anxiety, etc. I've had many discussions with clients about family members and partners and there are so many definitions of relationships from detached to enmeshed and the folks living them often don't realize that not everyone experiences life the same way.

What's worse is the Duggars are so isolated from the real world its almost impossible for them to know that real life "is done a little differently".

Michelle takes it a step further using the word friend in such a patronizing and condescending way when referring to people she has just met. I fully believe they have no idea closeness can be very deep, because as we have all agreed, they don't even know themselves to any depth.

Well, I wouldn't want to know myself either, if my name was Duggar!  They can't even have a conversation alone with their soon-to-be spouse without a third party.

That's supposed to be good?  Um, no.

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queenanne

queenanne

2 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Haha! I would love to know how they figure out when a word should be blocked. Context, I guess...for instance, the list of objectionable words included "balls"...which is a perfectly acceptable word in most instances. What if you are watching tennis? 

Also loved how they talked about "tweaking" the units when early ones substituted things like "Jerk van Gay" for"Dick Van Dyke" LOL

Yeah, I think one of the former fundies on the original questionnaire blog link indicated they had actually grown up with one and it didn't work very well, as in it just skipped and/or gave up in a puff of metaphorical smoke quite often.  This is the part where I finally dissolved in helpless laughter at what that might look like:

Curse Free TV's religious setting allows people to watch TV evangelists speak about "Jesus," "God" and "Hell" uncensored. Should Jerry Falwell or Mother Angelica start cursing up a storm, Curse Free TV still kicks in and bleeps the other words in its dictionary.

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Portia

Portia

6 hours ago, saylubee said:

I know my dad's family who is very Baptist will not play with cards because it is outlawed.  They will play games with dominos instead.

Would you mind explaining this? Does this mean they won't play Go Fish with their kids? I  know approximately 5,000 Baptists, including a fair number who are older than dirt, and I don't know anyone who thinks all cards are sinful. 

6 hours ago, Annb67 said:

What the hell is a curse free unit?

I knew what this meant, but someone else got to it first. Damn it!

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

14 hours ago, queenanne said:

Yeah, I exhort everyone to read the Wired link (hopefully it works for all), because this stuff is a satirical dream come true.

It reads like the accounts of the Buck Henry Society for Indecency to Naked Animals story -- a hoax that fooled a ton of people, of course, including bookers at the Today show and the CBS Evening News -- but I have the sinking feeling that this one is probably no hoax, but real. 

Here's the Naked Animals story, ICYMI -- http://hoaxes.org/archive/permalink/the_society_for_indecency_to_naked_animals

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Marigold

Marigold

(edited)

 I can't do multiple quotes but I can answer your questions on the Curse Free Unit, cards and board games.

Playing cards: the history of playing cards is somehow connected to demons/satan/witchcraft. Cards were associated with gambling, witchcraft, fortune telling, booze etc. I was probably 20 before I ever played cards.  I'm 47 and know no card games. My kids play cards but it still secretly freaks me out a little.  :) Hahaha

Board Games: Games are not a problem BUT there is the pesky problem of "luck".  They don't believe in luck; they believe in God's Divine Providence.  Obviously the dice is an issue with gambling. 

Curse Free Unit:  Never heard it called that but I know what it is.  Believe it or not, there are some older families in my LDS church who have one. They use it for when the youth get together and watch a movie. Even with a very "clean" movie, there is cursing. So, the church cannot have that playing at a youth social meeting.  They use a "box" to bleep out bad words. I think they use it in their home too.  I never heard about that growing up because they didn't watch TV or movies so it wasn't necessary. My own family could not be bothered with that. 

 

*grew up IFB lite, if anyone didn't know that.

Edited by Marigold
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queenanne

queenanne

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

It reads like the accounts of the Buck Henry Society for Indecency to Naked Animals story -- a hoax that fooled a ton of people, of course, including bookers at the Today show and the CBS Evening News -- but I have the sinking feeling that this one is probably no hoax, but real. 

Here's the Naked Animals story, ICYMI -- http://hoaxes.org/archive/permalink/the_society_for_indecency_to_naked_animals

Haha, superb!!  Bookmarking that site for future reference.

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saylubee

saylubee

14 hours ago, Portia said:

Would you mind explaining this? Does this mean they won't play Go Fish with their kids? I  know approximately 5,000 Baptists, including a fair number who are older than dirt, and I don't know anyone who thinks all cards are sinful.

No Go Fish.  The big games in our family were Chicken Foot and 42 with dominos.  I never really got into 42, but I was pretty good at Chicken Foot.  For my high school graduation, my grandma gave me my own set of dominos to take to college with me.

Once Grandma passed away, my aunts and uncles broadened their horizons to allow Uno and Skip Bo at Christmas.  The justification was that they weren't real face playing cards.

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Natalie68

Natalie68

7 hours ago, kalamac said:

Now I'm picturing movie sex scenes playing out like ones in Sims Freeplay, when you have to make your Sims woo-hoo - still in underwear, mostly obscured by a blur, and giggling while little love hearts float around them. Although, unlike in Fundyville, Sims Freeplay lets same-sex couple giggle in their underwear.

For some reason I kinda want to start using this term.  It made me laugh out loud.  

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

It reads like the accounts of the Buck Henry Society for Indecency to Naked Animals story -- a hoax that fooled a ton of people, of course, including bookers at the Today show and the CBS Evening News -- but I have the sinking feeling that this one is probably no hoax, but real. 

Here's the Naked Animals story, ICYMI -- http://hoaxes.org/archive/permalink/the_society_for_indecency_to_naked_animals

Omg.  THAT is hilarious and kinda awesome!  What is more hilarious is someone from my city tried to donate $40,000 to it!  For realz though who doesn't love a picture of a baby goat in pajamas?

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

45 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Theory is that Cards are used to gamble = bad, or divine fortunes, speak to the dead, etc = witchcraft = punishable by death in the OT.

I never heard anything bad about board games except Ouija, of course. 

Have we ever seen the Duggars play cards or board games?

Yes, although I don't know whether they play with actual playing cards or anything with dice. I think some of the games they play -- ones that are presumably popular with the Amish, IIRC, for example -- that may use card-shaped objects but maybe printed with something else. 

laurakaye

laurakaye

(edited)

212. Do you open doors for ladies?
213. Do you let them go first?

 

212.  Yes.

213.  No, I hold the door open, then scoot through first and let the door hit them in the face.  Sometimes I playfully shove them into the doorjamb just for kicks.

 

Did Jim Bob write this whole thing himself, or is this a standard Gothard form that he printed off somewhere?

Either way, the questions are both stupid and none of JB's damn business.

Edited by laurakaye
  • Love 13
Churchhoney

Churchhoney

8 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

212. Do you open doors for ladies?
213. Do you let them go first?

 

212.  Yes.

213.  No, I hold the door open, then scoot through first and let the door hit them in the face.  Sometimes I playfully shove them into the doorjamb just for kicks.

 

Did Jim Bob write this whole thing himself, or is this a standard Gothard form that he printed off somewhere?

Either way, the questions are both stupid and none of JB's damn business.

We don't know that JB actually sent any part of this questionnaire.

I guess we know that JB gave the guys a questionnaire. And, knowing that, I happened to find this one online that's purportedly used by some fathers of Jim Bob's general ilk We don't know to what extent this is real or whether any of it came from Gothard or just from some other part of the patriarchal world.

A lot of the questions do echo stuff that is Gothard-related, such as the questionnaires young men and their parents have to fill out for Alert, so this thing isn't completely off the mark. However, it could be a compilation of stuff, it could be phony in a literal sense, and Jim Bob may never have seen this particular set of questions in his life. Even if all of that's the case, though, it is redolent of their worldview. lol

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Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

46 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

What is gods divine providence? How is it claimed to affect the roll of a dice? ? ?? 

Apparently it's just the concept of anything involving "luck". I happened on this page the other day while trying to identify a house plant I was given. Picked it more or less at random as the image seemed the closest to the plant I had. Here's what it had to say:

Quote

Traditionally, aglaonema has been associated with good luck or something auspicious. The whole idea of luck troubles me. I couldn’t find the word “luck’ in the Bible, in Strong’s (2010) Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, or in Zondervan’s Illustrated Bible Dictionary (2011). Luck is ancient pagan concept. For me to say “Good Luck” to someone is denying that God is in control of their lives and they have to rely on capricious Lady Luck, whoever that is.

https://godasagardener.com/tag/chinese-evergreen/

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queenanne

queenanne

This is the type of explanation I'm sure I got somewhere along the lines:

http://bethanybible.org/new/ask-the-pastor/2006-03-24/playing-cards

“Games of chance” is really a misnomer; because “chance” as a word is used (in such cases) to mean that which happens in an absolutely spontaneous way and apart from any cause. But the Bible tells us – even with reference to so-called “games of chance” – “The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD” (Prov. 16:33). There really is no such thing in God’s universe as something that happens apart from a cause – and hence, there is no such thing as “chance” (in that sense). “Games of chance”, however, operate as if this were not the case – as if God were not in control of His universe. It wouldn’t be wrong, I believe, to play such games for pure entertainment – with the understanding that that’s all they are. But when we gamble against “chance” in order to make money, or when we bet our own resources against “chance”, then we’re really placing our trust and our resources in something other than God’s providential care, and are actually putting God to the test. This is a very wrong thing to do.

The minister's got other rationales and points that probably are closer to what others have heard; I ran out of room and didn't want the post to be too long. 

A different post I saw elsewhere said that their pastor said it's A-OK to play games that are based on "pattern matching" (which is probably what I was fumbling towards several weeks back when I nutshelled "Christians don't believe in probability" – no science whiz am I, so I'll bow to the unnamed minister's interpretation of benign game theory); and yet another individual said that their minister has $10 poker games occasionally with small men's groups, so clearly YMMV. 

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cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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