S06.E09: Battle Of The Bastards

[RedHawk]

8 minutes ago, garyvp said:

I am sure Melisandre will explain that Shireen was the price of admission to victory, and then Davos will kill her.

God let's hope so! I am so sick of the Red Bitch, and she's old as the hills anyway. Time to die.

(Fixed your "Bravos" to "Davos" in quote.)

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, dramachick said:

If Jon had sat on his horse and watched Rickon be killed in front of him without trying to save him, it would have been out of character and harder for the audience to root for him. 

That's not the issue, the issue is the point after Rikon is killed.  This is the point where Jon Snow became a dumbass MF.  He broke the plan by charging Ramsey, by himself!  Both of his generals knew he was going to screw everything up. The Wildling dude even says "Don't" and you can see Davros changing the plan.  Jon charging Ramsey (on his own) was dumb, mindless, over emotional crap and EXACTLY what Sansa had warned him about the night before.  She specifically warned him that Rikon was a Dead Man Walking.  She specifically warned Jon Snow that Ramsey was a manipulator who loved to cause pain and play mind games with people.  She even told Jon Snow DON'T do whatever it is Ramsey wants you to do.   

Jon failed to listen and understand everything Sansa told him. He failed to stick to his own plan after Ramsey killed Rikon in front of him. Jon essentially led his people to slaughter out of his own stupidity.   He basically fell into the exact same trap he was planning for Ramsey and the only thing that saved his ass was Sansa's deal with Littlefinger. If the Vale didn't show up, John Snow, Davros, The Wildlings would all have been killed and Winterfell would have been lost.

[AliShibaz]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Davos now knows that Melisandre burnt Shireen. It might not happen this season, but I hope that he gets revenge for sweet Shireen before the show is over. 

 

I would guess that everyone does. With any luck, she may burn to death and gain first hand experience how wonderful it is to be cleansed of all her sin by the fire. (sarcasm)

Hoorah for the fire!

Edited June 20, 2016 by AliShibaz

[Drogo]

2 hours ago, AliShibaz said:

What about Cersei?

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

I seem to remember Cersei advising Joffrey to be kind to Sansa and let Ned join the NW so as not alienate the North (because it couldn't be held from the outside.)  Imagine the trouble that could have been avoided had he listened.

[mojoween]

And just where IS Ghost, anyways?

It says a lot about the frame of mind I was in that this episode was a nice diversion from thinking about how sad I am that my darling baby boy, my only child, graduated high school yesterday.  Even if I did watch much of the ep through my fingers because gross.

The way Sophie said "...and now they're starving" was chilling and delivered masterfully.  Best I've seen her in this series.

[Constantinople]

Congratulations Bran!

Jaime Sisterfucker gave it his best shot, but you're still the last living male Stark who hasn't been brutally murdered!

Keep up the good work and watch your back!

[KaleyFirefly]

11 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I still don't understand why Jon could not know that Sansa enlisted Littlefinger's help. 

I know! I wish she had told him before the battle. It would have given Jon's army the hope they desperately needed...it all worked out in the end, but I still wish she had told him.

[Tara Ariano]

Here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Game Of Thrones Delivers Its Big Face-Off, Eye-Off, Nose-Off, And Spleen-Off

Bottom line: If you have a body part you care about, stay away from Winterfell this week.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ramsay FINALLY dying was obviously my favorite thing this week, but coming in a very close second was Yara and Dany's new Team Girl Power. I totally want to see them have a meeting with Lyanna, Brienne, Sansa, and Arya where they all encourage each other to kick ass (and possibly plot to kill Cersei, the High Sparrow, and Walder Frey together as a fun group bonding activity). Littlefinger and Crazy Robyn will accidentally fall out of the moon door. Then Sansa can take over the Eyrie, Arya and Jon can take care of things at Winterfell, and Lyanna can go back to being the chillest boss of Bear Island while Yara turns the Iron Islands into a quaint fishing village and Dany makes sure that the last of the Lannister loyalists are gone from King's Landing. I'd be fine with Dany leaving Margaery in charge of KL (with Lady Olenna as Hand) while Dany and Arya explore what's west of Westeros.

Obviously Dany and Tyrion's plan when they met with the Masters was exactly what we saw, but when one of them said that her dragons would be slaughtered I thought dude, that is the wrong hand to play. No one threatens her dragons and gets away with it! When she told him that she was there to discuss their surrender, not hers, it reminded me of The Princess Bride ("Surrender!" "You mean you wish to surrender to me? Very well then. I accept.").

Props to Grey Worm for killing those two masters with one swipe, but I was like dude, didn't anyone ever tell you to clean your knife before you put it back in its sheath?

Part of me understands Sansa's frustration but the 2016 in me is like girl, if you want to be heard, then SPEAK UP. No one else in that battle meeting was waiting for Jon to say, "Would you be so kind as to tell me your thoughts on the matter?" And when she flat out told him that Jon should listen to her because she knew Ramsay better than anyone else, she then didn't give any specific details that would help him. He was ready to listen but she got all soap opera and wouldn't tell him anything that would help him plan. Her generic statements about how Ramsay likes to hurt people and he likes to lure people into trapss. No shit, that's what happens in battle. People get hurt. "You don't know him" isn't really strategic advice. Fine, Jon doesn't know him so enlighten him! Tell him something useful! The only really useful piece of advice she gave him was "don't do what Ramsay wants you to do" and of course Jon ignored that and let Ramsay manipulate him into coming within arrow range and then charging straight at 6000 men.

Ha, I loved that when Davos told Tormund that Stannis had demons in his head, Tormund asked if he had ever seen the demons. He comes from a world where shit like that is real, not figurative. I love that they've grown to like each other despite originally being on opposite sides. Maybe Tormund will help him burn Melissandre next week!

Edited June 20, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[KaleyFirefly]

11 hours ago, dramachick said:

Littlefinger owes Sansa, so I'm sure she didn't promise him shit. He can always ask, but she's back in Winterfell now and doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to do.

"Yeah, thanks for coming to help Littlefinger...you can go back to the Vale now...OK byeeee!"

[dangwoodchucks]

Our power had been out since a severe storm came through last Thursday, and it finally came back on yesterday morning only to find out that Comcast was out. The nearest Starbucks turns their Wi-Fi off when they close at 9 so my husband and I had to go to Panera and watch the bastards battle on an iPad mini. The struggle is real, people.:)

Yay for the dragons being out, I thought they'd need shades since they'd been in the dark so long. Still don't care if Dany makes it to the throne or not.

I'm gonna need a rewatch to get the full effect of the battle but it seemed awesomely done. So many needless deaths, and every one of those soldiers could have helped battle the WW. I would have preferred it if the Bolton, Karstark and Umber armies would have just said "fuck this" and deserted Ramsay after he refused to do battle with Jon one-on-one in order to avoid a war.

Ok, when Jon was on top of Ramsay punching him in the face repeatedly, all I could think of was Ralphie punching Scut Farkus and muttering obscenities in "A Christmas Story".

[Cyranetta]

You know it's an intense ep of GoT when you watch the Penny Dreadful finale to wind down.

The Battle of the Bastards is as close as GoT comes to a clearcut pitching of good against evil. Jon Snow is good, but flawed, and one can easily imagine him making a bad decision or just letting depression cloud his judgment. Ramsey Bolton is irredeemably evil, but it was somewhat surprising to see how disciplined a commander he was, given his tendency to indulge his perverted passions on a whim.

Of course the scope of the battle was a sort of “see you and raise you” after Daenerys' use of dragons to school the slavers. Drogon's pose above the pyramid was a rather neat contrast to the opening credit's harpy statue, but it was so satisfying to see the other two finally get to “play”.

The reminder about wildfire caches beneath King's Landing is surely prophetic, but also thematic, since wildfire is the bastard child of dragonfire.

Yara and Daenerys make an interesting pair and perhaps a hint of a new way of doing things in Westeros.

The sheer impact of the battle scenes were nicely contrasted with some lovely two-person interchanges (Sansa/Jon, Davos/Tormund, Jon/Melisandre) and by the use of silence or the refusal to react as a strategy when facing Ramsay.

The house sigils made a kind of visual rhythm, with moments like Davos finding the Baratheon stag toy, the burning flayed-man crosses, the Arryn banners as the first signal of help arriving, and the final triumphant unfurling of the Stark banner on Winterfell's walls.

But the triumphs are also ominous. It was viscerally satisfying to see Ramsey Bolton get what was so truly coming to him, both with Jon Snow's ferocious beating and the coup de grace of his dogs' loyalty to their stomachs rather than to Ramsey, but it is also somewhat uncomfortable for an audience member to realize how thoroughly one can appreciate that level of violence, and I can't help but think that Sansa's well-earned satisfaction will have a terrible price along the line.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

My main concern for Sansa is how long before word gets out that she and Jon have taken back Winterfell and then how long before Cersei, Tommen, or the High Sparrow sends the Kingsguard to arrest her for Joffrey's murder?

[Morrigan2575]

Just wondering, did Jon Snow know what Sansa was going to do to Ramsey?

[Drogo]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Just wondering, did Jon Snow know what Sansa was going to do to Ramsey?

I think so.  He seemed to have a moment during the Ramsay beatdown when he realized it should be Sansa who passes the sentence and swings the sword.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Kit Harrington said that Jon stopped beating Ramsay because he knew it should be Sansa who was allowed to kill Ramsay. 

[insubordination]

Loved all the awesome has been already reviewed by you lot. Loved reading it; loved the episode - the dragons 'n' slavers slaughter (inc. Dothraki and Greyworm's speech),  Danerys finally having chemistry with someone & the battle scenes of course.  RIP Giant. Were you the last of your kind?

 

Quote

Shout out to Lyanna Mormount, who was staring fierce daggers at Ramsey before battle!

 That one look pretty much stole the scene...nay the episode.  Put her ass on the iron throne and she'd have High Sparrow worshipping her instead.   I would wear a T-shirt with her image.

Jon Snow seemed immortal in that ep. to me. Lord of Light looking out for him?

So glad Shireen got a shout out. Ser Davos' love for her has to mean something, damnit! They have kept it from him for so long (How? Was the whole army slaughtered or just ashamed?). One of my favourite scenes on this show was Shireen teaching him to read.  One of my least favourite was watching her loving daddy stand by and do that to her.

I suppose this was a triumph for the Starks. Yay? Of course one of them was murdered and the others can thank LF for their victory -  not so sweet.  I would have preferred it if Jon looked smarter by having his plan to make Ramsey's army turn on him actually work or maybe have Sansa come up with an idea where she uses her inside knowledge in a more precise way.

I'm fanwanking that Jon didn't finish off Ramsey j'incase Sansa wanted to do it herself.

I agree that Ramsey (the actor) did a good job in this ep of playing a ---------path (insert correct term). Just no emotion there, but not in a Ridge- from-the-Bold-and-the- Beautiful-type way.

The actor & director stayed true to the character. The actor should bring out a line of dog food with his image on them. Would clean up.

Of course it all means sheet 'cos Winter Is Coming (eventually).

[KaleyFirefly]

4 hours ago, RCharter said:

I will always hate that guy.

 And sadly, its because he is such a good actor and he sold Ramsay.

But yeah, I saw a commercial of him for some other show he is on.  And all I thought was "this motherfucker....."

You should watch him on, I think it's the 2nd season of "Misfits", you will end up loving him.

[MsChipper]

12 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Jon lacks any kind of restraint or self-control. I cannot believe he charged Ramsey on his own.

Like Arya, he needs to take some A Girl Has No Name classes.

Sansa, on the other hand, seems to have mastered this skill very well.

Overall thoughts:

1. Dany's dragon is such a badass, glad the other 2 broke free too!
2. Dany and Tyrion...hmm...not that it would happen, but if it ever came to it, they would certainly make for an interesting political marriage...
3. When Ramsay said, "I'm a man of mercy" - i shouted aloud, "Oh no you're not." :| (Just could not help myself)
4. Tormund's clueless look when Jon & Davos talk strategy. Heh.
5. You know, Sansa, if you told Jon about your plans, THAT might have delayed his decision to attack - although, then again, she may have allowed that to happen on purpose to make it easier for the Vale's troops...Hmm. Not sure...But I really don't like that she didn't tell Jon about it.
6. Felt bad for Davos finding that wooden toy stag. Probably will have some eventual payback for that.
7. I knew Rickon wouldn't make it but still felt sad to see that arrow go through him
8. Jon standing there against the cavalry coming at him and what followed was beautifully shot.
9. GO TORMUND! For eating Umber! Never has revenge cannibalism looked so good.
10. Every time an arrow shot Wun Wun, i shouted, NO! WUN WUN! - am still very depressed he's dead even though I knew it was coming.
11. It was a deserving end for Ramsay, although I wished someone would've cut his dick off, like what he did to Theon, fed it to his dogs first, and THEN throw the rest of him to them. Personally don't really like Sansa, but I was very happy for her at that moment.

[MissLulu]

21 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Just wondering, did Jon Snow know what Sansa was going to do to Ramsey?

Yes, not only that but I believe they set it up for her to finish. Sansa had already galloped off when he told the others his dogs had not eaten for 7 days. So when she asked "where is he" just before the last scene, I assume that they put him in the kennels and told her what he had said about the dogs being starving. Letting her take it from there... 

[DarkRaichu]

53 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My main concern for Sansa is how long before word gets out that she and Jon have taken back Winterfell and then how long before Cersei, Tommen, or the High Sparrow sends the Kingsguard to arrest her for Joffrey's murder?

As soon as they are done picking up whatever remain of King's Landing after Cersei lit it up in green wildfire (c'mon this was foretold so many times I would be disappointed if it did not happen)

 

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

That's not the issue, the issue is the point after Rikon is killed.  This is the point where Jon Snow became a dumbass MF.  He broke the plan by charging Ramsey, by himself!  Both of his generals knew he was going to screw everything up. The Wildling dude even says "Don't" and you can see Davros changing the plan.  Jon charging Ramsey (on his own) was dumb, mindless, over emotional crap and EXACTLY what Sansa had warned him about the night before.  She specifically warned him that Rikon was a Dead Man Walking.  She specifically warned Jon Snow that Ramsey was a manipulator who loved to cause pain and play mind games with people.  She even told Jon Snow DON'T do whatever it is Ramsey wants you to do.   

Jon failed to listen and understand everything Sansa told him. He failed to stick to his own plan after Ramsey killed Rikon in front of him. Jon essentially led his people to slaughter out of his own stupidity.   He basically fell into the exact same trap he was planning for Ramsey and the only thing that saved his ass was Sansa's deal with Littlefinger. If the Vale didn't show up, John Snow, Davros, The Wildlings would all have been killed and Winterfell would have been lost.

Yeah, Jon was not the most discipline soldier himself.  He fell to Ramsay's trap, although Ramsay was the master in this crazy mindgames.  Ramsay clearly missed Rickon on purpose the first 4-5 shots.

Sansa is now ready to play for the iron throne.  Between the secret plan for LF help up her sleeves, watching Ramsay getting eaten alive, and that smile at the end of the episode.  DAMN that smile was a mix of happiness and darkness necessary to rule a kingdom!!

 

I can't wait for Davos vs Melissandre next week :P

 

ETA: Jon Snow was the luckiest man alive or Melissandre helped him somewhat

Edited June 20, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[Bean421]

Sophie Turner's interview  about this episode is interesting. 

Quote

Jon doesn’t listen to her,” Turner notes. “She can actually formulate a plan behind his back and they need it. So she does save the day. But she doesn’t really gets her thanks. Her reward is killing Ramsay.

I know we can go round and round about Jon/Sansa, but it's frustrating that we don't discuss WHY Sansa feels the need to formulate a plan behind his back. Jon didn't listen because you didn't tell him this was a possibility. He asked for another way and you just sat there like, "I don't know anything about battle I just know you're wrong."

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My main concern for Sansa is how long before word gets out that she and Jon have taken back Winterfell and then how long before Cersei, Tommen, or the High Sparrow sends the Kingsguard to arrest her for Joffrey's murder?

Quote

Cersei: The North cannot be held... not by an outsider. It's too big and too wild. When the winter comes, the Seven gods together couldn't save you and your royal army. A good King knows when to save his strength... And when to destroy his enemies.  Season 1, Episode 3, Lord Snow

Edited June 20, 2016 by Constantinople

[SnowDrift]

27 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Kit Harrington said that Jon stopped beating Ramsay because he knew it should be Sansa who was allowed to kill Ramsay. 

The end of Ramsay was one of the greatest moments of GoT. People cheered his grisly demise. He was truly a big helping of Kibbles N Bits!

[Gummo]

Just two quick thoughts on Sansa:

I think she was absolutely right not to take Jon into her confidence about the Army of the Vale coming - she knows Jon now, and while he's noble and a powerful warrior, there's no guile and not much patience in him.  And sometimes he just doesn't seem too bright. One way or another, he would have given it away if he knew about the Army of the Vale, either by boasting to Ramsey or some other stupid move, the surprise would have been lost, and even greater slaughter would have ensued.

Secondly, sweet as her revenge was, ultimately it was Ramsey's triumph - he was right, he's corrupted her forever, her hatred and pain has turned her into a version of Ramsey, cold and sadistic.  Where this leads her, only time will tell.

Sansa is dead, long live Sansa!

[MsChipper]

11 hours ago, Drogo said:

If the men on this show would listen to the women on this show, 96% of problems would be solved already. 

Unless it's Cersei. Yes, Jamie, I'm looking at you!

[ElleMo]

13 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I still don't understand why Jon could not know that Sansa enlisted Littlefinger's help. 

Yes, it bugged me that she kept yelling at him to wait and he kept saying "this is all we have"  but she didn't respond that the Vale was coming.  Because maybe if he knew that there were people coming, he would have waited.

[Unknown poster]

1 minute ago, ElleMo said:

Yes, it bugged me that she kept yelling at him to wait and he kept saying "this is all we have"  but she didn't respond that the Vale was coming.  Because maybe if he knew that there were people coming, he would have waited.

I had a discussion with a friend of mine about this last night. We both decided it's just a "that's not how TV works" situation. I suppose I can accept that. I don't think the Vale's arrival was a surprise to almost any viewer, but I'm sure they wanted to provide at least a little suspense.

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, ElleMo said:

Yes, it bugged me that she kept yelling at him to wait and he kept saying "this is all we have"  but she didn't respond that the Vale was coming.  Because maybe if he knew that there were people coming, he would have waited.

As i understand it, she didn't KNOW the Vale was coming. There was a possibility that Littlefinger would help but, no guarantees 

[ElleMo]

49 minutes ago, insubordination said:

So glad Shireen got a shout out. Ser Davos' love for her has to mean something, damnit! They have kept it from him for so long (How? Was the whole army slaughtered or just ashamed?)

A large number of them deserted overnight after Shireen was burned at the stake. They probably returned home as fast as they could and along the way would stay away from people as much as possible simply because they would be slaughtered by any Lannister soldiers they ran into

It looks like the rest were slaughtered.  If any survived, I am sure they are staying as far away from any sort of battles or people as they can.  

[DarkRaichu]

36 minutes ago, SnowDrift said:

The end of Ramsay was one of the greatest moments of GoT. People cheered his grisly demise. He was truly a big helping of Kibbles N Bits!

Right behind Jeoffrey's end.  To me, Jeoffrey's was still #1 because the makeup, acting, etc were done well AND it affected Cersei greatly.

I mean nobody cares about Ramsay's demise or will mourn for him.  He turned on everyone who liked him even a little bit.

Edited June 20, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[ElleMo]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ramsay FINALLY dying was obviously my favorite thing this week, but coming in a very close second was Yara and Dany's new Team Girl Power. I totally want to see them have a meeting with Lyanna, Brienne, Sansa, and Arya where they all encourage each other to kick ass

I've been wondering where Varys  perhaps he went off to Dorn since they have no love for the Lannisters.  It would be cool if he got Ellaria Sand to support  Daenerys. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by ElleMo

[annewithaneee]

Personally I think Sansa held out on Littlefinger's army because the writers wanted the moment of a surprise cleanup crew saving the day, even when the commander himself thinks he's beaten. I predicted that weeks ago at the proverbial watercooler at work, that this would end a lot like Stannis's attempted siege of King's Landing. I think it was conveniently written into character motivations where it didn't quite make sense otherwise.

As it is, I think Sansa had known for some time that she wanted an ace up her sleeve that Jon couldn't know about and therefore fuck up. Since there's apparently several portals in key locations this season (I love that people actually arrive at their destinations now, but time and distance is starting to lose meaning), I'm assuming Littlefinger and his posse didn't storm in as they actually arrived -- I bet that's where Sansa rode off to in a hurry after delivering the only real good burn of the eve-of-battle faceoff with Ramsay, she went to wherever the troops were hidden. She kept insisting that Ramsay would set a trap, so my guess is she decided to keep the extra army a secret so that they could be deployed once the trap revealed itself (the phalanx), and not before. I bet the extra men didn't make up for the numbers disadvantage, because they were so under-manned to begin with, and had they added Littlefinger's men to the ranks from the beginning they still would have been beaten. 

If that was what she was thinking, it was a solid plan and brilliant Sansa strategizing, which I want to believe in because I love her (and Sophie Turner has been killing it this season)...but it would predicate on Sansa knowing for some time that Jon was going to fuck this up, and she couldn't even tell him about the potential Hail Mary reinforcements because he would just bungle it, and she could run the battle better. Which...maybe? Jon has been fairly obviously checked out since being resurrected, to us the viewer, but they haven't seen each other for years and fighting has never been in her wheelhouse (even from a strategic standpoint), so it's hard for me to believe she could realistically be so perceptive and so confident she could pull it off.

All of that suspension of disbelief aside, I loved this episode, and it had me so keyed up I had a hard time falling asleep afterwards. I was convinced that Jon was going to prevail, but that Ramsay was going to, like, shoot Sansa from afar (with his frankly insane and infuriating archery prowess -- no way he should have been able to get Rickon like that from so far away, even as a practiced people-hunter) before retreating. So happy we got to see Ramsay not only die at last, but on Sansa's terms. It was very clear that Jon saved the kill for her. 

And with that, I might actually keep watching this show until the end! This is actually the first season since S2 that I've watched all the way through. I nope-d out of all the previous ones partway through due to Ramsay, who I think is a terrible villain (and not in a good way), both in the show and in the source material. I'm sure gratuitous torture will prevail throughout the rest of the series, but I bet none will piss me off as much as good ol' one-dimensional nearly-invincible Ramsay.

[MsChipper]

11 hours ago, MissLulu said:

I don't think Sansa knew Little Finger & the Vale would show up for sure or in time untill they did. We saw her send a Raven and assume she was asking but remember she wanted Jon to wait. Perhaps to see if the Vale would show up... but did not want to tell Jon in case they didn't... that is my theory. Also in the after show, they said, he stopped short of killing Ramsey cause when he saw Sansa he realized he wasn't his to kill... he chose to give her that.

I still think she should have told Jon and given him the benefit of allowing him make the choice of waiting a day or so for The Vale to arrive.

I tend to disagree with the argument that she wasn't sure if LF was coming because the fact that she told Ramsey, You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. - means that she probably knew LF was likely coming to the rescue. It could have been a show of bravado, but I doubt it was so, coming from her.

And if she intentionally withheld that information with the intent of letting Jon, Wun Wun and the rest of their allies run ahead to their deaths just so she can reclaim Winterfell, then that's just not cool, Sansa.

Edited June 20, 2016 by MsChipper

[SimoneS]

Like I said before, I think that the writers just had Sansa stay silent to ramp up the drama when all hope appeared to be lost for Jon because it makes no sense for her to stay quiet. People are just trying to rationalize that plot device.

[ElleMo]

3 hours ago, terrymct said:

Who is left to fight the White Walkers and their zombie army?

 

The Dragons and Ghost.  And Arya's direwolf, wherever he is (I am convinced he will come back one day).  I am convinced that the direwolves and the dragons are only back because of the White Walkers.

And House Morment of Course!  and Sam is one his way with a Valerian Sword.  And Arya.

When the white walkers truly attack is when all the story lines will converge.  And the fighting force will probably included the Dothraki & unsullied, if they get more appropriate clothes. . All the houses that refused them now.   Maybe Benjen. The hound? Maybe someone will kill Walter and the Freys will join in. The Vale etc.

[MsChipper]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I am not a Melissandre fan, but during the battle I thought huh, maybe the Lord of Light really did choose Jon Snow. How else did he ended up the luckiest bastard ever in that battle? There were arrows coming at him, horses charging straight at him, etc. and he somehow managed to stay alive.

I have a theory that the Lord of Light may be Bran From The Future......especially since it seems like he's able to communicate with people from the past....but....we'll see.

[DarkRaichu]

1 minute ago, ElleMo said:

 

The Dragons and Ghost.  And Arya's direwolf, wherever he is (I am convinced he will come back one day).  I am convinced that the direwolves and the dragons are only back because of the White Walkers.

And House Morment of Course!  and Sam is one his way with a Valerian Sword.  And Arya.

When the white walkers truly attack is when all the story lines will converge.  And the fighting force will probably included the Dothraki & unsullied, if they get more appropriate clothes. . All the houses that refused them now.   Maybe Benjen. The hound? Maybe someone will kill Walter and the Freys will join in. The Vale etc.

Don't forget Bran and what's hername who got into this because of her brother ;)

[RCharter]

23 minutes ago, ElleMo said:

Yes, it bugged me that she kept yelling at him to wait and he kept saying "this is all we have"  but she didn't respond that the Vale was coming.  Because maybe if he knew that there were people coming, he would have waited.

Yeah, but Jon is prideful and stubborn and honorable.  

That sort of guy may refuse an offer of help from Littlefinger out of pride and honor.  Even if he knows he needs it, he would figure its better to go down without the help of LF because he hates him so much and because he clearly had a part in hurting Sansa.

And, if thats the case, Sansa is really not getting enough credit.  Because she was likely right, Jon may have turned away LF's offer of help, but by the time he got there, Jon was in no position to turn them away.

[MsChipper]

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

the last non-bastard Stark male

You forgot Bran! He's the truly last.

[DarkRaichu]

4 minutes ago, RCharter said:

Yeah, but Jon is prideful and stubborn and honorable.  

That sort of guy may refuse an offer of help from Littlefinger out of pride and honor.  Even if he knows he needs it, he would figure its better to go down without the help of LF because he hates him so much and because he clearly had a part in hurting Sansa.

And, if thats the case, Sansa is really not getting enough credit.  Because she was likely right, Jon may have turned away LF's offer of help, but by the time he got there, Jon was in no position to turn them away.

That 100%.  I also think Sansa just did not trust anyone anymore after what she had been through with LF & Ramsay.  She was becoming a formidable player for the Iron Throne just by the way she played the hands she was dealt.  Jon was basically mini version of Ned Stark, useful for fighting but not good with scheming. 

[dinkysquid]

I will enjoy my summer a whole lot more if I can go into it knowing that the red witch/bitch is dead. Go get her, Davos! I still get teary thinking of that sweet child.

Loved this episode! It was as satisfying as Blackwater - maybe more. So much going on!

My only disappointment with Ramsey's demise? TOO QUICK!!! I would torture this freak for DAYS. Bring him just to the brink, then revive and start again. I'd make what he did to Theon look like a day at the spa. He has got to be the most loathsome villain I think I have ever seen and kudos to the actor for doing such an amazing job because that's when you know you're good when you can stir up that much hate in your audience. I hope in his next role, he is a sweet, kind soul who writes poetry and listens to Sarah McLaughlin. 

I don't know whether it was fantastic lighting or the actress has started a new skin care routine but I don't think I have ever seen Dany look more beautiful. She positively glowed! I've thought she was lovely from day one but last night? I thought she looked incredible. I guess having access to a dragon will do that to a girl.

The giant! Oh noooooooooooooo!!!! 

I thought that Jon Snow was going to buy it - AGAIN - but he didn't. That battle scene was making me a tad claustrophobic. All those bodies!!  The re-enforcements sure took their time. And I agree with other posters' advice to poor Rickon and that is not to run away in a straight line when someone is shooting arrows at you. Another Stark gone. And yes, it was a moment to see their banner unfurl. They must have come back from the cleaners.

I refuse to think about next Sunday being the end and of what a long, long year it will be before it's back. If I need my fix, I can go into On Demand and start all over again from Season One. Sometimes it's amazing what you forget!

What a show!!! The writing, the acting....everything. Thank you GOT for one memorable season!!

Edited June 20, 2016 by dinkysquid

[Dobian]

Sansa saving Littlefinger's troops for a late sneak attack was actually brilliant generalship.  Flanking a bunch of pikemen when their backs are turned with cavalry means a quick rout.  If they came in and joined Jon's forces at the beginning, then it's just a straight-up battle and a toss-up who wins.  And horses do not do well against pikemen coming head-on, and are sitting ducks for archers.

A shout-out to Iwan Rheon.  Everyone wanted Ramsay to get his, but we will all miss the fabulous portrayal by Rheon of this inglorious bastard.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Dobian

[RCharter]

1 minute ago, DarkRaichu said:

That 100%.  I also think Sansa just did not trust anyone anymore after what she had been through with LF & Ramsay.  She was becoming a formidable player for the Iron Throne just by the way she played the hands she was dealt.  Jon was basically mini version of Ned Stark, useful for fighting but not good with scheming. 

She really is....and what a change from Season 1 Sansa!

There are so many amazing women on this show, and they are all strong in their own way.  Yara's strength is different than Sansa's strength, but they are both strong and now compelling characters.  And Lady Mormount's strength is different than Dany's strength...which is different from Brienne's strength.  I hope we get more Lady Mormount in Season 7.  I would love to see her and Ser Davos develop a friendship.

[MsChipper]

6 hours ago, RCharter said:

I will always hate that guy.

 And sadly, its because he is such a good actor and he sold Ramsay.

But yeah, I saw a commercial of him for some other show he is on.  And all I thought was "this motherfucker....."

This made me laugh out loud.

Poor guy, but I know what you mean.

Here's hoping he'll get some nice guy roles moving forward....

[Timetoread]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

At first glance i thought it was a Bull Mastiff or or Italian Mastiff. I agree, looks like it's in that family. The Cane Corso and Dogo Argentino are both excellent suggestions as well.

I think it may have been a Presa Canario.  A truly beautiful and truly terrifying dog.  I am not one to fear dogs (I LOVE THEM!) but I fear this breed.

39 minutes ago, Gummo said:

Just two quick thoughts on Sansa:

I think she was absolutely right not to take Jon into her confidence about the Army of the Vale coming - she knows Jon now, and while he's noble and a powerful warrior, there's no guile and not much patience in him.  And sometimes he just doesn't seem too bright. One way or another, he would have given it away if he knew about the Army of the Vale, either by boasting to Ramsey or some other stupid move, the surprise would have been lost, and even greater slaughter would have ensued.

Secondly, sweet as her revenge was, ultimately it was Ramsey's triumph - he was right, he's corrupted her forever, her hatred and pain has turned her into a version of Ramsey, cold and sadistic.  Where this leads her, only time will tell.

Sansa is dead, long live Sansa!

Ramsey's death by dog doesn't make Sansa anymore cold and sadistic that it did Jon almost beating him to death. It bothers me that we cheer when men kill the bad guy but when a woman does it (mind you a bad guy that raped and brutalized her, who sent the very dogs who killed him to kill her, and who'd just killed her little brother), she's disturbed/gone dark/changed and other such things.  At any rate, I would wager that of ALL the Stark kids, she has suffered the most.  All the way from having her direwolf executed to having her FATHER executed in front of her, to being held in KL by two of the most evil people on the planet, to being publicly shamed and accused, to being threatened by her insane relative, to being darn near molested by an creepy manipulative man who then betrayed her by giving her to the third most evil person on the planet who added sexual and physical abuse to the psychological abuse she'd already suffered.  But that which does not kill us only makes us stronger.  Ramsey didn't change her, ALL OF IT changed her.  And she is not cold, she is strong. 

[RCharter]

Just now, MsChipper said:

This made me laugh out loud.

Poor guy, but I know what you mean.

Here's hoping he'll get some nice guy roles moving forward....

LOL....I still have an axe to grind with Danny Glover over The Color Purple, so I know how to hold a grudge.

But yeah, I'm sure the actor is a nice guy.....I'm just one of those people.

I'm glad he was able to get out of the role before it affected him too much, because it sounds like it was getting to him.  And well....Heath Ledger :(

[RedHawk]

1 hour ago, Bean421 said:

Sophie Turner's interview  about this episode is interesting. 

I know we can go round and round about Jon/Sansa, but it's frustrating that we don't discuss WHY Sansa feels the need to formulate a plan behind his back. Jon didn't listen because you didn't tell him this was a possibility. He asked for another way and you just sat there like, "I don't know anything about battle I just know you're wrong."

To me it seems quite simple. She didn't trust Jon to lead and win the battle, especially with too few men, and Ramsay being basically an evil genius. We don't know if Littlefinger was able to send her news of his location and impending arrival, so perhaps she couldn't be sure that his army would arrive in time. When she talked to Jon, she got nothing from him that made her feel confident in revealing her action in contacting Littlefinger, so she kept silent and hoped. Had Jon known, the forces of the Vale would have lost the element of surprise, and Sansa knew they had to have that as well as numbers. 

Edited to add: Sansa had already accepted that her little brother Rickon would die. She didn't care a whit that many, many soldiers would die in the initial battle. Her best hope was that Ramsay would also expend many of his forces and the Vale army would arrive in time to finish them off. She is cold and calculating, as she's learned she must be.

Edited June 20, 2016 by RedHawk

[HumblePi]

3 hours ago, RedHawk said:

God let's hope so! I am so sick of the Red Bitch, and she's old as the hills anyway. Time to die.

(Fixed your "Bravos" to "Davos" in quote.)

Exactly! And besides we got a glimpse of those 'old hills' a few episodes ago, the 'hills' are lowlanders now and she's about 280 years old (give or take a few centuries).  Davos finding the wooden stag he carved and gave to Shireen is significant in how and who will end the life of Melisandre. Why that wooden figure didn't burn in the pyre is nothing short of miraculous, but good TV. I know from my limited knowledge of the Salem, Mass. witch burnings that a witch can be burned at the stake. I'll throw out a wild guess and project that Melisandre will suffer the same fate that she subjected Shireen to.

[rozen]

36 minutes ago, annewithaneee said:

If that was what she was thinking, it was a solid plan and brilliant Sansa strategizing, which I want to believe in because I love her (and Sophie Turner has been killing it this season)...but it would predicate on Sansa knowing for some time that Jon was going to fuck this up, and she couldn't even tell him about the potential Hail Mary reinforcements because he would just bungle it, and she could run the battle better. Which...maybe? Jon has been fairly obviously checked out since being resurrected, to us the viewer, but they haven't seen each other for years and fighting has never been in her wheelhouse (even from a strategic standpoint), so it's hard for me to believe she could realistically be so perceptive and so confident she could pull it off.

Imo, she didn't need to be that perceptive. She floated the idea of a perfect army, the Tully army, lead by Blackfish who is an accomplished and honorable general. Jon would not wait for Brienne to return. There's no indication that Brienne's raven stating her failure has even reached them yet.  And Blackfish would have actually stood with them, stood in that center and held, or died, as needed.

Sansa knows perfectly well that LF would take one look at those 2:1 odds and demand a position of maximum safety and only move when victory was guaranteed, Jon would never stand for it. That's ignoring the fact that LF betrayed their father and was a major contributor to his execution. The only way Jon knows how to deal with underhanded people is to kill him, he's very much Ned's son in that regard. And if he got into with LF and offended him (likely), what's stopping LF from letting Ramsay overextend himself and instead hit Winterfell from behind and take it for himself? Sansa was stuck. It was like Tyrion using Wildfyre, literally a tool of last resort that no one can know about beforehand or everything will promptly go sideways.

TBF, Jon was stuck too because he knew there was no way he could hold the Wildlings together for a rough winter with the White Walkers coming, they've got preparations of their own to make. But everything was undone because he charged like a fool when Sansa explicitly told him Ramsay was a mind-game playing sadist. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by rozen