S04.E08: Friends in Low Places

[Cranberry]

TBA

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

A new work detail doesn't go over well with the inmates. Judy seeks help from Poussey. Maria finds a place she can conduct business.

[Lady Calypso]

So, we're finally getting back on track with Piper. I did feel for her terror here, especially during the phone call to her brother. I mean, I thought she deserved to get punished for the way she treated people and what's she's,done for two seasons, but I do think the branding is enough. I think it showed her some much needed humility, and it's certainly making an impact on her.

I liked the drug confession scene, but Piper/Alex is still not my favourite pairing, so I wasn't that invested in it.

I really like Judy. She's really great, even if she has some problems to work through. It looks like she's making friends with Poussey, which is great. Plus the photography scene was fantastic and hilarious, with Judy kissing Cindy.

The Pennsatucky/Coates scene was....good, actually. He made me believe that he was really thinking over what he had done and was remorseful. He apologized in his own way. I think she needed that too, in order to help heal. It may not have been what she envisioned as an apology, but it could have been worse. 

Linda's pretty money hungry. Caputo was right to be angry at her, especially with her attitude toward the whole thing. And then when Linda pulled a gun on Sophia's wife, that just made me realize that my gut instincts were right about her. Except....what the hell, Caputo? That was hot to you? 

[Cherpumple]

I can't decide if Linda is a robot or just a sociopath. I've been leaning towards the latter since she seems completely oblivious to normal human emotions, especially those related to empathy or compassion. It's not even like she's as ruthless as Fig was, she just genuinely doesn't understand why Caputo could possibly be upset about anything that's happened. It's freaky. But then she dumped a ridiculous amount of salt into that sauce, which made me think "robot". The jury's still out.

I'm glad that awful Aleida has a goal now, but I cannot imagine her being successful in customer service, no matter how talented she is at nail art. She's so mean!

[Blue Plastic]

I hated the scene with Tucky and Donut Guard/Coates.  I find it difficult to believe that someone could just be an "accidental" rapist who just did it because he was mad but genuinely regrets his actions and actually likes/loves his victim.  That seemed like BS.  I couldn't stand it if Coates is portrayed as a loving, normal guy who just made a slight mistake and Tucky should just forgive him and be friends again.  Yuck.

I thought Caputo was going to finally see Linda for the horrifying person she is, but no.

[kathe5133]

I was sure after the gun incident that Caputo would give Linda the boot.  But......  I forgot.  I forgot about Caputo jacking off over the female inmates and forgot he is a true "anti" hero.  Of course he'd find that "hot".  Love this show!

[DrSparkles]

Shit is REAL for Piper.

[AmandaPanda]

It looks like Piper has finally hit rock bottom. I thought this was the best episode for her yet. Taylor Schilling was really phenomenal in this ep. 

Love that Poussey is friendly with Judy King. 

Linda is horrifying. I remembered why I never really liked Caputo when he found her pulling a gun on someone to be hot.

I'm a touch uneasy about the Coates scene. I'm glad that he is remorseful, but I hope Tucky doesn't completely forgive him. I hope she takes the "apology" as a step toward her recovery.

[Muffyn]

Sometimes god gives you a window, and then you remember there is no god.  Red is so great. 

On ‎6‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 6:11 PM, Cherpumple said:

I can't decide if Linda is a robot or just a sociopath. I've been leaning towards the latter since she seems completely oblivious to normal human emotions, especially those related to empathy or compassion. It's not even like she's as ruthless as Fig was, she just genuinely doesn't understand why Caputo could possibly be upset about anything that's happened. It's freaky. But then she dumped a ridiculous amount of salt into that sauce, which made me think "robot". The jury's still out.

I'm glad that awful Aleida has a goal now, but I cannot imagine her being successful in customer service, no matter how talented she is at nail art. She's so mean!

Are yoou thinking about Bender on Futurama?  The water he served had a salt content that was .00000000007 below a lethal dose.   I suspect salting his sauce is what will have Caputo realize she's a monster.  You don't mess with the sauce.  (And now I realize salting his sauce sounds like a bad euphemism for sex.)  

[AllyB]

On 6/19/2016 at 2:56 AM, Blue Plastic said:

I hated the scene with Tucky and Donut Guard/Coates.  I find it difficult to believe that someone could just be an "accidental" rapist who just did it because he was mad but genuinely regrets his actions and actually likes/loves his victim.  That seemed like BS.  I couldn't stand it if Coates is portrayed as a loving, normal guy who just made a slight mistake and Tucky should just forgive him and be friends again.  Yuck.

I don't think they are portraying him as a normal loving guy who made a slight mistake. He's a guy who did have some sort of genuine feelings for Tucky, did something awful and having had it pointed out to him is willing to say sorry. That doesn't mean he'll become a good guy or that if Tucky gave him the chance he wouldn't do it again. It reminds me of an abusive husband who really does love his wife (insomuch as he is capable of love) and who is convinced he is a nice guy (TM). He will hurt her and apologise seemingly sincerely in the aftermath. But in time will just repeat the same pattern over and over.

[AlliMo]

I have mixed feelings about the whole situation with Coates, but I don't necessarily think it's bad to show how so much of rape culture stems from not adequately teaching about consent. The guy is a rapist, there's absolutely no doubt, but it pays to ask how someone gets to think the way he does.

I'm sure it's based on actual practice, but I still can't reconcile with male guards having this much freedom for physical contact with female inmates. It seems like a recipe for disaster in so many ways.

Edited June 22, 2016 by AlliMo

[knaankos]

The last two episodes have righted the ship on what was a sinking season. 

 

I do think the Coates story is good. It's important to show that not every rapist is someone who is obviously a bad guy. In fact most rapists are like Coates in that they get the woman's trust and then abuse it. In the case of him he seemed genuinely shocked that Tucky considered what he did rape and he certainly feels bad about it shown by his outburst at Luchek a few episodes ago. It was good that he apologized and hopefully Tucky can start to clear her head on the whole matter. Best that he not talk to her any more though because I feel like the cycle could repeat itself if they get close again. 

No flashbacks in this one right? This was the first episode in a while (ever?) without those. 

Diaz is now a really unlikable character. How did she suddenly become this queen of the Dominicans badass? And why are people still following her? Don't they know she could get 3-5 more years? Why in the world would you hang around with that anymore. If I'm Maritza I would tell her to screw off and find some other idiot to help her get the drugs out. Also Daya's mom better stay the hell away from her too. I don't like her much but I do not want to see her chances of getting out ruined. 

[Primetimer]

A little crack here and there doesn't hurt.

View the full article

[Maysie]

It's becoming my mantra: I love Red.

So I guess we're seeing the beginning of the Piper redemption arc just as we see Maria slide into the depths of villainous behavior. This is the first time I've ever had any inkling that Piper gives a shit about someone/thing beyond Piper.

The Coates thing is causing me some turmoil because in my mind, he raped Tucky. However, the thought that struck me during his second scene with her, when he apologized, is that prison can be a life-changing experience for not only the prisoners. Not everyone emerges changed from the experience, but I wonder if he's one of those rare people that is actually learning to see the prisoners as humans and not just bodies in nondescript uniforms. I think it was "easy" for him to rape Tucky because at the time, he didn't see her as a person but as a prisoner, to be punished, who deserved what she got. However, I think the interaction with Luchek showed that Coates may be evolving and starting to understand that there are people in those uniforms. Some are good, some are bad, but they're not all the same and they deserve basic respect. Contrast that with the guard who was standing in the shower surrounded by naked women so Judy would be protected - and by the way, wtf with that? There wasn't a female guard somewhere to take that on? I call bullshit on that piece of business. So anyway, I believe Coates raped Tucky, I believe he's starting to see it that way, or at least understand her point of view on it, and that shockingly, he's becoming one of the better guards. I don't know that he actually loves her like he thinks he does, but I do think she and the job has led him to questioning himself and the way he's behaved in the past.

My happiness over Nicky's return was a little dimmed this episode because I found her pushy and basically awful. Her interaction with Morello and Alex was disappointing. We've been having discussions about Coates raping Tucky, but honestly, I found the way Nicky was harassing Morello to be not much better. She didn't force herself on Morello, but I wondered if that's where it was headed.

And the minute Caputo told Linda to stir the sauce I knew she'd do something to it, but I didn't expect a carton of salt to be dumped in the pan. I hope Sophia's ex sues the shit out of all them because Linda is horrific and Caputo's no better. The ex mentioned the freedom of information act and a lawyer, so I hope that actually means something. Perhaps Caputo is the Piper of the prison power structure and he's got an epic smackdown coming.

[Aja]

On 6/19/2016 at 11:26 AM, AmandaPanda said:

 

Linda is horrifying. I remembered why I never really liked Caputo when he found her pulling a gun on someone to be hot.

 

Agree! I found it completely out of character for Caputo to think pulling a gun on Crystal Brisset, whose wife he KNOWS is being wrongfully detained in the SHU, was hot. Up to that point it seemed like he was as concerned as anyone about Sophia but felt like his hands were tied (which is wussyish of him anyway, but it seemed like he at least sympathized.)

[Princess Sparkle]

Does Nicky know why Morello is in prison?  If so, it was an incredibly cruel thing to do to put the idea in her head that Vince is cheating. I mean, it's mean either way, but it's especially cruel if she knows exactly why Morello is in prison. 

I admit, while I like Piper, I usually find Taylor Schilling to be a so-so actress, but she really got me during her breakdown in the field. 

[knaankos]

8 hours ago, Maysie said:

 

My happiness over Nicky's return was a little dimmed this episode because I found her pushy and basically awful. Her interaction with Morello and Alex was disappointing. We've been having discussions about Coates raping Tucky, but honestly, I found the way Nicky was harassing Morello to be not much better. She didn't force herself on Morello, but I wondered if that's where it was headed.

 

Yes! She was pretty awful all episode. Expected everyone to get on their knees and have a pity party for her, continues to pressure Morello into sex despite Morello saying no several times and gets Piper and Alex on crack. Her outburst at Luchek is looking pretty ridiculous now that she is using hard drugs the moment she gets out of shu.

[Clanstarling]

I expected Caputo's breaking point to be Linda putting all that salt into the sauce - if you care about what you make, you don't take it lightly when someone messes with your cooking.

The gun=hot thing does not make any sense to me. Caputo's far from perfect, but he was already upset about not being able to do the classes he wanted, and concerned about Sophia - it is just hard for me to connect the dots to him getting off on Linda's bullshit stand your ground approach.

[Kel Varnsen]

I almost laughed when Caputo was talking to Linda about how his classes would reduce recidivism. Dude, it is a for profit prison now reducing recidivism is bad for business.

[Blakeston]

On 6/22/2016 at 11:09 PM, knaankos said:

Yes! She was pretty awful all episode. Expected everyone to get on their knees and have a pity party for her, continues to pressure Morello into sex despite Morello saying no several times and gets Piper and Alex on crack. Her outburst at Luchek is looking pretty ridiculous now that she is using hard drugs the moment she gets out of shu.

Do you mean max? I don't recall her ever being in SHU.

I had the impression that she got back on drugs when she was in max, shortly before she was transferred back to minimum security. And that it presumably happened because the visit with Luschek brought up so many issues that she fell off the wagon.

I'm not sure she has any legitimate reason to be bitter toward Luschek, though. So far as I can recall, she asked him to help her smuggle heroin; he went along with it; then she kept some for herself and hid it in his stuff. So when the guards searched his stuff and found the heroin, he revealed that it was hers. Why shouldn't he tell the truth in that situation?

[ridethemaverick]

I appreciate these posts because they're (grudgingly) making me see both sides of the Coates issue. 

[jsm1125]

I didn't get the sense that Pennsatucky fully accepted Coates' apology. I could have sworn I saw her shaking her head and looking down when she walked away from him.

I don't think that even Fig was in every episode during her tenure, so I don't need to see Linda hogging up so much screen time.

I thought that the newer inmates had yet to be assigned jobs, so how were Ouija, Dwight, Piper's bunkmate, and Zirconia in Whispers before their jobs changed to Construction? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 6/18/2016 at 6:11 PM, Cherpumple said:

I'm glad that awful Aleida has a goal now, but I cannot imagine her being successful in customer service, no matter how talented she is at nail art. She's so mean!

ITA on both counts. It's great that she finally found something (legal) that she's good at so she can get a legitimate job and work towards getting her kids back, but I can't imagine her dealing with customers in any way. If she suggested a particular color or design and the customer asked for something else, you know she would get pissy. She really doesn't have the right kind of temprament to deal with people.

I thought that when Linda pulled a gun on Sophia's wife, that would be the last straw for Caputo. When he said it was hot, I was so disgusted with him.

So when people ask Piper about her brand, is she going to tell that she's just really into Microsoft Windows?

[nodorothyparker]

Every time I think I can't love Red more than I already do, they give her a line like "When God gives you a swastika, he opens a window. And then you remember there is no God."  I love how she's reluctantly taken Alex and now Piper under her wing while remaining her flinty-eyed practical self about it and I love that she already knows that it's Nicky stealing from her and why.  Rebranding a still raw and bleeding brand has to be all kinds of awful but the parallels of the initial incident were nicely done.

This was probably one of my favorite episodes of the season so far.  The cornfield scenes were terrific with just the right mix of humor and confession.  "I was trying to win at prison."  Yeah, and now you're smoking crack in a cornfield over the hastily buried remains of a drug dealer's hit man.  How's that worked out for you?  This is probably the most I've liked Alex and Piper in scenes together in forever and I think I could actually enjoy them a lot as friends even if I still don't like them together as a couple.

The slow build of the Black Cindy/Allison buddy team and Allison's inclusion in that group has been fun to watch and Judy King coming out of nowhere to insert herself in that story and lay a big wet one on Cindy was a hoot.  After a fair bit of initial dislike, Judy as a character has really grown on me but she's still been too isolated from the other stories to have much impact thus far.

Linda continues to be the most awful character on a show about felons committing criminally punishable things.  And whatever remaining sympathy I had for Caputo for being caught in the corporate wheel vanished when he found that gun stunt hot instead of looking her dead on in her crazy eyes and seeing the callous monster in front of him.

[Guest]

Maybe I just wasn't in the mood for such a dark episode but I left this one wishing I was closer to the end of the season.  

[poppy-]

On 6/23/2016 at 6:41 PM, clanstarling said:

I expected Caputo's breaking point to be Linda putting all that salt into the sauce - if you care about what you make, you don't take it lightly when someone messes with your cooking.

The gun=hot thing does not make any sense to me. Caputo's far from perfect, but he was already upset about not being able to do the classes he wanted, and concerned about Sophia - it is just hard for me to connect the dots to him getting off on Linda's bullshit stand your ground approach.

That was sugar that  she was adding to the sauce. A nice little domestic moment in the mayhem.  

Caputo's reaction didn't ring true to me either. It was funny but not in character.

[NYCFree]

15 hours ago, poppy- said:

That was sugar that  she was adding to the sauce. A nice little domestic moment in the mayhem.  

Caputo's reaction didn't ring true to me either. It was funny but not in character.

I don't think it was sugar. it came out of a cylindrical paper dispenser with a spout, like Morton's has.

My husband and I disagree with whether Caputo's response was in, or out, of character.  I was thinking "this has to be the last straw." My husband just laughed and thought it was perfect for Caputo.

Edited July 8, 2016 by NYCFree

[ganesh]

That's what I'm saying. No more swastika. Just brand over it. I get it's a wake up call for Piper, but overall, I think it's a weak revenge. Getting her sent to the shu or planting drugs is better.

Kissing Black Cindy was absolutely hilarious. "My mama gonna see me kissing a white woman!"

On 6/20/2016 at 10:44 AM, Muffyn said:

Are yoou thinking about Bender on Futurama?

It's salt with water in it!

[DangerousMinds]

The sugar we have at my workplace looks exactly like that - a cylinder with a spout. I guess it could have been either.

[Sesquipedalia]

Quote

Every time I think I can't love Red more than I already do, they give her a line like "When God gives you a swastika, he opens a window. And then you remember there is no God."

Best line of the season so far!

[kieyra]

Rewatching the whole show. Wow, the scene with Nicky, Alex and Piper smoking crack and then confessing their shit was some phenomenal acting. Very intense. I'd completely forgotten it happened. I remembered the branding, but I somehow remembered it as Alex or Red happening to notive the bleeding.

And then wham, Alex confesses to the murder. All three actresses did an unbelievable job of acting both high and freaked the fuck out. I've had people tell me stuff I really didn't want to know while on drugs (although admittedly not crack ... it was the 90s, so X), and I remember that stomach-sinking buzzkill feeling so well.