S08.E10: Unhappy Holidays

[bravofan27]

I remember how hurt Bethanny was when Jill tried to get people to not film with her. Now Bethanny is doing the same thing. She's a little too upset about the Tipsy Girl stuff. It will go nowhere, and it's a totally different product-- not meant to be low cal. 

Things that Luann should not do:

1) Make fun of the fact that Tom doesn't like Ramona as much as he likes her

2) Going on and on about Bethanny having your hair. She is not trying to be like you. It's just a coincidence and not a terrible uncommon cut anyway. 

[QuinnM]

So Carole won't film with Luann until Luann opens a vein or something. Or maybe until Luann apologizes without giggling. That would help. I was one of the unfortunate followers during the Twitter war. Carole name calling was you're crazy, you're mean, stop if. Luann's was trying to recapture your youth, old woman with a boy etc.. Pedophile was not on Twitter and I don't think anyone said it was. Luann did say some ugly ugly things  she also kept saying that her niece was still seeing Adam.  Which she has denied  

Betheny, I'm betting, has a bigger problem. Jim Beam is saying you signed a contract saying you would protect the brand. You CANNOT talk about this Tipsy Shit without violating that contract. 

So it is two different things to my mind. But combined it's a shit show. However since they are getting their highest ratings in 5 years, it is  a shit show we all want to watch. 

[sasha206]

1 hour ago, HumblePi said:

I think we might be just a little hard on Carole and merely because of her last name and relationship with the Kennedy clan. Carole started her career as a journalist at ABC News working for Peter Jennings’ documentary unit, Peter Jennings Reporting. While there she reported on stories in Cambodia, Haiti, India and Israel. She traveled extensively on the Thai-Cambodian border reporting and filming in refugee camps and with Khmer Rouge soldiers for the award-winning documentary titled From the Killing Fields. She was stationed in Israel during the Persian Gulf War and traveled with Israeli military personnel filming the aftermath of Saddam Hussein’s SCUD missile attacks. She also produced stories for the magazine shows 20/20, Primetime Live and DayOne including the story of Vietnam Veteran Bobby Muller’s anti-landmine campaign in Cambodia. Carole was honored with an EMMY award for the segment,

She met her future husband Anthony Raziwill on assignment. They got assigned to the same story. A murder case, the Menendez brothers. Lyle and Erik Menendez were two good-looking rich kids who gunned their parents down in their Beverly Hills living room. Anthony Radziwill was an ABC producer on the story, and Carole was sent to work on the team. Her very first book was a memoir, 'What Remains' and it was on the New York TImes Bestseller List for twelve weeks. In 2012 she released her second book,

I reserve judgement on Carole's writing career since I'm not qualified to judge her professionally. I can of course criticize her for her looks, her poor eating habits, and her unforgiving demeanor with Luann.

Well put.

I certainly admire her legacy of work, her intellgence and wit.  Carole would probably be a very intersting person to talk to -- not for the Kennedy connection, but for her own experiences.  I do like her somewhat laid back style.  Where she loses me is the ageism cracks she's made about Ramona.   Makes me wonder sometimes if she can't remember her own chronological age.  And yet, there it is bearing down on her with her relationship with Adam.  And I think the fact she knows she may only have "five summers" left with him, it's very sad to me.  That's why I would never, at my age (48) ever want to date someone so much younger.  First, it wouldn't even appeal to me ( which makes me question her).   Second, I wouldn't want to get into a relationship where I'm constantly wondering if I look too old to him.

Edited June 12, 2016 by sasha206

[hoodooznoodooz]

On June 10, 2016 at 0:03 AM, breezy424 said:

Oh.  Is it me or does Beth have the weirdest way (when she does) of saying, "Thank you"?  Thannnk you.  I watched one episode of season one and she was saying it the same way back then.  (And in this episode she mentions that the 'housekeeper' noticed ...  Um, wasn't Beth supposed to be broke?)

I noticed that, too! It was especially obvious to me when she was entering Ramona's birthday party venue many episodes ago. Many guests were complimenting her on her haircut.  She kept saying, "Thank you." But she says it in a kind of suspicious, pissed off way. 

[Almost 3000]

7 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, they didn't invite her to PR but she was invited to PS and they didn't refuse to film with her. Sonja wasn't invited to Dorinda's because of Bethenny, Bethenny refuses to film with her and 

  Hide contents

Bethenny, with the others blessings, decides to not invite Sonja on the Mexico trip

. This type of freeze out has not occurred on any other HW show across the entire franchise before, never. 

B could have looked at it as a good storyline and just played along with it. As she's said it really didn't have the potential to hurt her anyway. Instead she goes all out war on Sonja and really hurt her. I think its going to backfire on her or at least I hope it will. Nasty piece of work that B.

[sasha206]

On 6/10/2016 at 8:27 PM, straightshooter said:

In my truly humble opinion, what Bethenny reeeeeealllly hates about LuAnn is that she is secure with herself and has remained a fairly confident woman regardless of her life circumstances at any given time.  I think it's slowly sinking in to Bethenny that no matter how much money/power/fame/plastic surgery/business success she has, she is still insecure.  She's having a tough time swallowing that pill.

LuAnn consistently carries herself well, and Bethenny is quite challenged in that department.  

In reality, (I know, I know!) it's actually very sad.  

Absolutely!  I think this is probably what bothers all of the women.  Love her or hate her, she manages to stay pretty even.  She despite that awful jumpsuit and the awful beach hair TH, she still looks nearly the same as she did eyars ago.  Without much noticeable work on her.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

So Carole won't film with Luann until Luann opens a vein or something. Or maybe until Luann apologizes without giggling. That would help. I was one of the unfortunate followers during the Twitter war. Carole name calling was you're crazy, you're mean, stop if. Luann's was trying to recapture your youth, old woman with a boy etc.. Pedophile was not on Twitter and I don't think anyone said it was. Luann did say some ugly ugly things  she also kept saying that her niece was still seeing Adam.  Which she has denied  

Betheny, I'm betting, has a bigger problem. Jim Beam is saying you signed a contract saying you would protect the brand. You CANNOT talk about this Tipsy Shit without violating that contract. 

So it is two different things to my mind. But combined it's a shit show. However since they are getting their highest ratings in 5 years, it is  a shit show we all want to watch. 

The big hypocrisy is they are holding Luann to a standard to check with Ramona before dating someone Ramona went out to dinner with, which is what Tom told Luann.  Ramona has confirmed it was as far as it went.  Ramona went so far as to say, "no chemistry", somehow buttinsky Bethenny opines, "Tom was smitten with Ramona."  WTH, of Ramona didn't like him what difference did it make? In the case of Carole and Adam, Carole did the same thing she relied on Adam as defining the end of the relationship with Nicole, and although Carole knew Nicole and knew she had been romantically involved with him she didn't check with her to see if Nicole still had feelings.  She was very glib, "boy meets girl," nonsense. (So much wrong when she later slams Luann for the age comments-is he a boy or a man?) http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-7/videos/luann-is-still-salty-about-carole-and-adam  So when Luann follows their rules and dates Tom without checking in with Ramona-she is held to a different standard?  If you are called all kinds of ways of wrong for your earlier comments, you comport and follow their rules you are all of a sudden a hypocrite?  It is a head banger.

[Showthyme]

On 6/10/2016 at 3:17 PM, Umbelina said:

http://www.evine.com/b/fashion/the-countess-collection/

You too can have Luann's jumpsuit!  It's on clearance for a low low price of $38.09!!

Wow, her prices are really low.  A blouse with a 2 star rating is $6.99.

Lucky me! I can still buy one. I have gone to my husband's company holiday party for years leaving practically unnoticed. They will be talking about me long after the party.

[seasick]

2 hours ago, QuinnM said:

So Carole won't film with Luann until Luann opens a vein or something. Or maybe until Luann apologizes without giggling. That would help. I was one of the unfortunate followers during the Twitter war. Carole name calling was you're crazy, you're mean, stop if. Luann's was trying to recapture your youth, old woman with a boy etc.. Pedophile was not on Twitter and I don't think anyone said it was. Luann did say some ugly ugly things  she also kept saying that her niece was still seeing Adam.  Which she has denied  

Betheny, I'm betting, has a bigger problem. Jim Beam is saying you signed a contract saying you would protect the brand. You CANNOT talk about this Tipsy Shit without violating that contract. 

So it is two different things to my mind. But combined it's a shit show. However since they are getting their highest ratings in 5 years, it is  a shit show we all want to watch. 

Curious..can you elaborate?  i would think scorning Sonja about it would be about all she could do to protect SG.  No?

 

2 hours ago, bravofan27 said:

I remember how hurt Bethanny was when Jill tried to get people to not film with her. Now Bethanny is doing the same thing. She's a little too upset about the Tipsy Girl stuff. It will go nowhere, and it's a totally different product-- not meant to be low cal. 

Things that Luann should not do:

1) Make fun of the fact that Tom doesn't like Ramona as much as he likes her

2) Going on and on about Bethanny having your hair. She is not trying to be like you. It's just a coincidence and not a terrible uncommon cut anyway. 

on 1) I would agree if it were not for having to listen to Ramona go on about how she dated him 1 time--7 times who the hell knows and screaming "girl code". Ramona makes you finally say what 'goes without saying'.He was not Ramona's boyfriend, just a casual date and  obviously he likes Luann more than he likes her.  Obvious.  Happy now Ramona?

2)   I LOVE how Luann busts Bethenny about the hair and gets her all pissed off.  Luann wouldn't do it if Beth's head didn't spin and spend the evening talking to herself over it.  It shines a light on how petty and ridiculous Bethenny gets about stupid stuff.  Christ it's a haircut.  "No it's NOT no it's NOT!   just say 'yeah, they're a lot alike." Grow up and Luann will stop 'picking on you', Bethy 

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, sasha206 said:

Where she loses me is the ageism cracks she's made about Ramona.

Where she loses me is by calling people who don't work outside the home, 'nothings'.  And being dumb enough to eat gummy bears laced with acid and then bragging about puking on her boyfriend' s shoes. For as stupid as Kelly might be, her gummy bears only contained high fructose corn syrup.

Regarding her accomplishments - I have a friend who has 3 Emmys from segments he produced while at HBO.  Also winning Emmys for the same segments were the 12 - 20 people who worked alongside him on those segments.  Carole didn't win an Emmy by being the One Brilliant Visionary on her projects. It's always a group effort.  To be an Emmy award winning journalist is certainly notable - I'm not knocking it.  But unless she wrote, directed, produced, starred in, videotaped, edited and worked the Chyron machine, it took a village and just not Carole, the special snowflake.  Emphasis on flake.

[Trooper York]

Quote

 

I think we might be just a little hard on Carole and merely because of her last name and relationship with the Kennedy clan

Seriously? I don't think we are hard enough on her. She is a worthless sack of crap.

What one thing did she ever do that was fun and enjoyable?

When she told Aviva her opinion was not important because she never worked outside the home? When she practiced her "To Catch a Predator" technique on the surfing instructor before she snatched vegetable boy out of the kitchen? Her time share dog? Her bear suit? Being a barnacle on the ass of Heather and now Bethenny?

Her acumulated wit and wisdom makes Amber Marchese look like Aristotle. Theresa Giudice wrote four books to her one in the past three years. Or at least her ghost writer did.

You can never be hard enough on Carole. She is just the worst.

[breezy424]

So, the whole gummy bear thing started because Beth offered Kelly pretzels while riding in the car in St. Johns.  Kelly said she doesn't eat processed food.  Later Kelly pulls out gummy bears.  That's screwed up no matter how you look at it. And, as much as I can't stand Beth, it's on Kelly for being stupid.  I can't even call that ignorance.  It's just pure stupid arrogance.

Even to be part of a 'village' that produces an Emmy or a Peabody is an accomplishment.  Those villages are few.  I won't take that away from Carole, no matter how I feel about her behavior this season. Carole is entitled to how 'she' wants to live her life.  She's never thrown any award in anyone's face.  She's never thrown her husband or her relationships with a very well know family in anyone's face. 

Not working outside the home?  That's a different story.  Being a full time parent is a very tough job.  Carole doesn't appreciate it because she's never had that experience and is clearly making assumptions.  She's in no place to make that kind of judgement.  And speaking of which, maybe Jules will more appreciate her next 'nanny'.  Maybe she 'and' her husband will appreciate that there's more to be a nanny than being bilingual and picking out coordinating outfits.  

Edited June 12, 2016 by breezy424

[eurekagirl mOo]

Climb in the way back machine with me-----Carols 1st season----the Occupy Wall Street movement was going on. She filmed with someone(?) having lunch and they were discussing the movement . Carol chats, blah,blah,blah, then she looks up and says "OH___I guess we're part of the one percent". She has been DEAD to me since then. Like you don't know how much money you have???? So you're going to humble brag about it on tv? O.K. 

I liked Luanns curly hair. It looked young and fresh. 

[Trooper York]

Of course it takes a village. Carole was part of that village. Every village needs an idiot. 

[Avaleigh]

8 minutes ago, Trooper York said:

Of course it takes a village. Carole was part of that village. Every village needs an idiot. 

I don't have any issues with Carole in terms of her career, but this burn on her is just too funny. 

I have to agree that there is something sad about Carole's five summers comment. I personally wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I'm personally viewing it as a countdown to quits because I already know thay we both ultimately want different things.

Even though Carole is currently on my shit list, I don't have any sympathy for Aviva. Ha, I do bet that she's loving the shit out of this season. Kelly and Jill are too. Thinking of all of these women tuning into the show reminds me of something that I've been wanting as much as I want a Housewives All Stars to happen one day.

I hang my head in shame that if they had a People's Couch version where it's former housewives sounding off on the current season of a housewife show I would be all over it. Imagine having one viewing session with Heather and Kristen and another with Alex, Jill, and Kelly. No way would there not be some awesome humor.

At the same time, I wouldn't want them to do this with the other franchises I watch. The idea of Brandi, Carlton, Camille, and Marisa sounding off on BH doesn't sound nearly as fun. Same with Alexis, Gretchen, and Jeana for OC. 

[SweetieDarling]

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

I don't have any issues with Carole in terms of her career, but this burn on her is just too funny. 

I have to agree that there is something sad about Carole's five summers comment. I personally wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I'm personally viewing it as a countdown to quits because I already know thay we both ultimately want different things.

Even though Carole is currently on my shit list, I don't have any sympathy for Aviva. Ha, I do bet that she's loving the shit out of this season. Kelly and Jill are too. Thinking of all of these women tuning into the show reminds me of something that I've been wanting as much as I want a Housewives All Stars to happen one day.

I hang my head in shame that if they had a People's Couch version where it's former housewives sounding off on the current season of a housewife show I would be all over it. Imagine having one viewing session with Heather and Kristen and another with Alex, Jill, and Kelly. No way would there not be some awesome humor.

At the same time, I wouldn't want them to do this with the other franchises I watch. The idea of Brandi, Carlton, Camille, and Marisa sounding off on BH doesn't sound nearly as fun. Same with Alexis, Gretchen, and Jeana for OC. 

That is a GREAT idea! Except Andy would start with Brandi watching the BH  wives.

What about a show with the most annoying or narcissistic housewives together on vacation? 

[straightshooter]

1 hour ago, AnitaKnight said:

2 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I don't have any issues with Carole in terms of her career, but this burn on her is just too funny. 

I have to agree that there is something sad about Carole's five summers comment. I personally wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I'm personally viewing it as a countdown to quits because I already know that we both ultimately want different things.

Even though Carole is currently on my shit list, I don't have any sympathy for Aviva. Ha, I do bet that she's loving the shit out of this season. Kelly and Jill are too. Thinking of all of these women tuning into the show reminds me of something that I've been wanting as much as I want a Housewives All Stars to happen one day.

I hang my head in shame that if they had a People's Couch version where it's former housewives sounding off on the current season of a housewife show I would be all over it. Imagine having one viewing session with Heather and Kristen and another with Alex, Jill, and Kelly. No way would there not be some awesome humor.

At the same time, I wouldn't want them to do this with the other franchises I watch. The idea of Brandi, Carlton, Camille, and Marisa sounding off on BH doesn't sound nearly as fun. Same with Alexis, Gretchen, and Jeana for OC. 

That is a GREAT idea! Except Andy would start with Brandi watching the BH  wives.

What about a show with the most annoying or narcissistic housewives together on vacation? 

I don't even eat popcorn, but I would fill a vat with it and make a fort in the living room from which to view such a show.  I would turn off all other electronics so that I would only be interrupted in the event of a natural disaster that occurred near me - near enough that I could feel it, hear it, or see it, that is.  

Even better would be a second People's Couch during which the current NY cast viewed the first People's Couch and got to respond to the comments made about them!  The reactions of Ramona and Sonja alone would be priceless. 

Edited June 12, 2016 by straightshooter

[SnarkKitty]

Can I just ask ... forget about Bethenny's feelings about the name... did NONE of these business tycoons give any thought to having an effing representative with a DWI on her record as the face of their liquor? "TipsyGirl ... first you drink, then you drive drunk?" GTFOH.

Anytime I feel slightly bad for Sonja I remember that, and then IDGAF anymore.

Edited June 12, 2016 by SnarkKitty

[seasick]

13 minutes ago, SnarkKitty said:

Can I just ask ... forget about Bethenny's feelings about the name... did NONE of these business tycoons give any thought to having an effing representative with a DWI on her record as the face of their liquor? "TipsyGirl ... first you drink, then you drive drunk?" GTFOH.

Anytime I feel slightly bad for Sonja I remember that, and then IDGAF about her anymore.

I get this but frankly I think the whole idea was just manufactured for the show and will never see the light of day.

It is self-serving to Bethenny because when everyone stops   'Wanting to be Her'  (which is both B's delusion and her self-affirmation about how *great* she is) then the music stops for Bethy's ego.  It serves to keep the SG brand talk alive and Bethy's borderline personality disorder functioning.  

[WireWrap]

56 minutes ago, seasick said:

I get this but frankly I think the whole idea was just manufactured for the show and will never see the light of day.

It is self-serving to Bethenny because when everyone stops   'Wanting to be Her'  (which is both B's delusion and her self-affirmation about how *great* she is) then the music stops for Bethy's ego.  It serves to keep the SG brand talk alive and Bethy's borderline personality disorder functioning.  

I do think Peter/partners planned on using the NY show to help launch their restaurant/wine but I'm not so sure it isn't real. Peter was "partners" with Ramona first and I really believe she was supposed to be the "face" of TG but backed out because she feared what Bethenny would do to her. After she backed out, they asked Sonja, who agreed to do it because it was easy money for her and Ramona squealed to Bethenny about it before filming began, hence Bethenny not speaking to Sonja before filming began until she had that sit down to rip Sonja a new one.

Then there is this, although it is ROL.  http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/ramona-singer-original-tipsy-girl-bethenny-frankel-lashed-out/

[Petunia13]

I think slut shaming, braggart, classist, shrill banshee bully Bethenny is a bad spokesperson for any brand or product. 

[savannah1985]

Wasn't there a product called "Skinny Bitch" before Bethany's "SkinnyGirl"?

[Trooper York]

I understand that Sonja is coming out with a new feminine hygiene product called "Nasty Twat" that she developed after many a late night walk of shame. 

But Bethenny sent her a "cyst and desist" order (TM Tamara Barney) because that was in fact her brand.

[bravofan27]

A DWI isn't defining and shouldn't mean Sonja can't sell liquor. She isn't calling it DWI girl. Plenty of people drink and don't drive, tipsy girl should be more a warning to not drive, IMO. In any case, I'm not into throwing mistakes in people's faces and then telling them they can't do stuff because of their past mistakes. Sonja can do whatever she wants. I think the fact she may have a drinking problem is more concerning than a past DWI in terms of endorsing liquor. But that is her own issue. I really don't care when I buy wine the backstory of the people in the company. I just care if it's a good value and tastes good. 

[Umbelina]

On 6/11/2016 at 1:03 PM, Avaleigh said:

It wasn't just about Kelly being annoying and I disagree that Kelly was some harmless, fragile butterfly that the ogre Bethenny or anyone else went out of their way to stomp on.

Kelly was rude, she was the opposite of kind to the other women, and felt that she was above everyone. She was late, inconsiderate, hypocritical, full of criticism, and impossible to follow. 

The gummy bear stuff is a minor example but it's easy to use because it's an example of Kelly making a production of how she's one way "I don't eat processed foods, [gross]" only to show that she does in fact eat processed foods. Her reaction when called on it is to be hostile and defensive like it's the other person who's stupid for not getting that she doesn't eat processed food unless it's a "fun" processed food. Is that really something that the average person isn't going to snark on especially when they're on a reality show? Kelly could have said, 'Haha, you're right, I can't resist the lure when it comes to candy' or something along those lines but her response is to be defensive rather than thinking, 'Okay, fair enough, I said another thing that doesn't really make sense.'

I loved when Bethenny asked her when they're supposed to know if they should take her word on something because I was wondering the same damned thing. It wasn't like it was one time where Kelly was inconsistent and Bethenny and the others kept harping on the gummy bears. It was something that Kelly would do all of the time and a person had no idea if they're supposed to take what she says seriously or not.

Kelly showed how mean and nasty she was but she isn't smart, she isn't a good listener, and she isn't articulate, so her attacks on Bethenny only served to make her look ridiculous, delusional, and silly.

One point that isn't made by the people who think that Kelly was some innocent victim of mean girl Bethenny is how Bethenny reacted when Kelly had her meltdown. Not only did she back off when she realized she was dealing with an unhinged lunatic, but she actually encouraged the others to back off too. She felt it was wrong to continue to go in on someone she suspected might in fact be mentally ill. 

This wasn't some one woman show where Bethenny was the only one commenting on Kelly's ridiculous and nonsensical behavior either. They all saw it and Ramona flat out told Kelly that she was completely "nuts".

Regarding Ramona, I agree that she has a cruel streak and it's in her to twist the knife when she has the opportunity. I personally think she's getting off on watching Sonja and Luann tapdance to keep their jobs and think she enjoys watching all of the arrows being sent their way courtesy of Bethenny and Carole. She's practically salivating. At the same time she's smart and aware enough that she'll be next on Bethenny's hit list if Sonja and Luann are cut. It's not like she's forgotten about the Ramonacoaster or the SingerStinger. I think that's why she's been (minimally) supportive of Luann in these episodes rather than throwing 100% of her weight behind Bethenny and Carole. 

Brava!

I loved the behind the scenes stuff that spilled out too, in dribs and drabs.  Apparently the whole thing was much worse that what we were shown, with production people actually afraid, doors locked, filming stopped until Kelly was removed.  Honestly, I've always wondered if she had a brain injury.  She's so very limited mentally, and then she went batshit insane. 

20 hours ago, bravofan27 said:

I remember how hurt Bethanny was when Jill tried to get people to not film with her. Now Bethanny is doing the same thing. She's a little too upset about the Tipsy Girl stuff. It will go nowhere, and it's a totally different product-- not meant to be low cal. 

Things that Luann should not do:

1) Make fun of the fact that Tom doesn't like Ramona as much as he likes her

2) Going on and on about Bethanny having your hair. She is not trying to be like you. It's just a coincidence and not a terrible uncommon cut anyway. 

She's fed up with the Tipsy Girl ploy, and especially with Sonja trying to pull the innocent waif thing.  She spelled it out for Sonja quite well in that meeting.  Don't try to pretend you are naive with me lady, you are no innocent teenager here, you knew exactly what you were doing by getting in bed with that conman who wanted to promote his restaurant and pretend wine by upsetting me, thus insuring he got free advertising.  Guess what hon?  I'm not playing, there will be no scenes with you because that just gives that asshole what he wanted, and what you knew he wanted.

Good luck with that Sonja, because I'll simply not film with you, and the asshole will get exactly one scene with me, and that will be me telling you exactly what you have done.

18 hours ago, Almost 3000 said:

B could have looked at it as a good storyline and just played along with it. As she's said it really didn't have the potential to hurt her anyway. Instead she goes all out war on Sonja and really hurt her. I think its going to backfire on her or at least I hope it will. Nasty piece of work that B.

Sonja tried to hurt Bethenny, and then played dumb.  I disagree that she's nasty for simply not giving Tipsy Girl any more airtime, and since that's all Sonja's got?  See ya.  Hope the deal you made with the shyster was worth  it.

Actions have consequences, which you apparently failed to learn even though you had to pay millions to the people you tried to con before.  Well, this consequence is, I'm not giving you or the crook what you want here.  The consequence may be you have less RHBH money.  Tough shit.  When will you learn? 

3 hours ago, SnarkKitty said:

Can I just ask ... forget about Bethenny's feelings about the name... did NONE of these business tycoons give any thought to having an effing representative with a DWI on her record as the face of their liquor? "TipsyGirl ... first you drink, then you drive drunk?" GTFOH.

Anytime I feel slightly bad for Sonja I remember that, and then IDGAF anymore.

All they cared about was getting free publicity for the bar/restaurant.  The wine is a joke, although they did get labels and a couple of cases just in case the Bethenny publicity paid off.  Too bad, so sad, she's not going to engage.  Smart.

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

I do think Peter/partners planned on using the NY show to help launch their restaurant/wine but I'm not so sure it isn't real. Peter was "partners" with Ramona first and I really believe she was supposed to be the "face" of TG but backed out because she feared what Bethenny would do to her. After she backed out, they asked Sonja, who agreed to do it because it was easy money for her and Ramona squealed to Bethenny about it before filming began, hence Bethenny not speaking to Sonja before filming began until she had that sit down to rip Sonja a new one.

Then there is this, although it is ROL.  http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/ramona-singer-original-tipsy-girl-bethenny-frankel-lashed-out/

I pretty much already said it.  Bethenny films with Sonja?  That sleaze and Sonja get more air time about the cheater brand.  So, she doesn't.  That's totally fair, and frankly, pretty smart.

Sonja did a dirty thing, she knew it was dirty.  If Bethenny films with her, it not only gives the crook publicity, but also reinforces Sonja's shady ways.  What would be next?  Who else would capitalize on Sonja's greed?  What new feud would Sonja cause about her business?  One and DONE.  That's the only way you can handle that bullshit.

As far as filming?  The others could easily include Sonja.  Bethenny wouldn't show, but so what?  Bravo would still air it if they were interesting.  Carole probably wouldn't show up for a "trash Bethenny" session, or anything where she has to spend much time with Luann, but she'd show up for anyone not Luann. 

I don't think it's the show giving Bethenny special favors, it's a business.  They'll air anything that grabs attention and interest of the audience.  It's up to the others to bring that, not rely solely on Bethenny for fireworks and repartee.  Ramona can cause fireworks with a glass of wine in one hand and the other hand smoothing her hair.  

Edited June 12, 2016 by Umbelina

[zoeysmom]

Here is Tom's story about seeing Luann at the Mark Hotel.  He claims seeing her hit him like an asteroid (they were both with other people) this interview was in January so it was before Tom proposed.  http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/luann-de-lesseps-new-boyfriend-speaks-about-relationship

Here is Luann's recent interview and she does mention jealousy on the part of the other women (I don't think she is referring to Bethenny or Carole)  http://hamptons-magazine.com/luann-de-lesseps-on-real-housewives-of-new-york-city-her-wedding-and-the-hamptons  She does add it his her job to be around Ramona.

So the three episode argument began because Luann was defending Sonja.  Bethenny had drawn her line in the sand regarding Sonja, Ramona had told Sonja she was persona non grata, Carole was having nothing to do with her and Dorinda didn't invite her, which regardless of Dorinda's reasoning it was a shitty thing to do.  It was her house but Dorinda definitely stood up with the mean girls.  Bethenny and Ramona setting up all these reasons to dislike Luann had more to do with their guilt in disassociating themselves from Sonja.  When Bethenny doesn't get a laugh or an amen for her comment (the biggest one being about Luann writing a book about etiquette) she launches.  Bethenny act as if Luann wrote a book about being raised in the deep south as a poor African American man or brain surgery techniques.  How was different than Bethenny writing a book about being "Naturally Thin"?  She is clear in the forward it was from her life experience, the same as Luann did.  Bethenny even takes credit for the rest of the cast losing weight because of her positive attitude in her book. Just like Luann's experiences in Europe, NY and the Hamptons and her marriage to the Count influenced her life.

When Bethenny speaks of authenticity and her brand (her life's work or maybe the last eight years work)she was all over the place saying her swill was a top notch clear tequila all natural with agave nectar.  Well it wasn't and it still isn't. She had the product pulled from Whole Foods once it was discovered the swill it is and was cock full of chemicals and preservatives.  Which doesn't relieve Bethenny from the responsibility of being honest. 

[Petunia13]

LMFAO she said Skinnygirl is all natural  ingredients with top shelf clear tequila. 

That shit has more artificial substances and preservatives than a Four Loko. 

[seasick]

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

I do think Peter/partners planned on using the NY show to help launch their restaurant/wine but I'm not so sure it isn't real. Peter was "partners" with Ramona first and I really believe she was supposed to be the "face" of TG but backed out because she feared what Bethenny would do to her. After she backed out, they asked Sonja, who agreed to do it because it was easy money for her and Ramona squealed to Bethenny about it before filming began, hence Bethenny not speaking to Sonja before filming began until she had that sit down to rip Sonja a new one.

Then there is this, although it is ROL.  http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/ramona-singer-original-tipsy-girl-bethenny-frankel-lashed-out/

And I'm not 100% sure either.   But a "made for TV'  restaurant/wine launch does not a brand make. The fact that they wanted dopey Ramona and Sonja to be the 'faces' are not images that I'd like to glom on to.  Hard to say really.

[WireWrap]

46 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

 

Good luck with that Sonja, because I'll simply not film with you, and the asshole will get exactly one scene with me, and that will be me telling you exactly what you have done.

Sonja tried to hurt Bethenny, and then played dumb.  I disagree that she's nasty for simply not giving Tipsy Girl any more airtime, and since that's all Sonja's got?  See ya.  Hope the deal you made with the shyster was worth  it.

Actions have consequences, which you apparently failed to learn even though you had to pay millions to the people you tried to con before.  Well, this consequence is, I'm not giving you or the crook what you want here.  The consequence may be you have less RHBH money.  Tough shit.  When will you learn? 

All they cared about was getting free publicity for the bar/restaurant.  The wine is a joke, although they did get labels and a couple of cases just in case the Bethenny publicity paid off.  Too bad, so sad, she's not going to engage.  Smart.

I pretty much already said it.  Bethenny films with Sonja?  That sleaze and Sonja get more air time about the cheater brand.  So, she doesn't.  That's totally fair, and frankly, pretty smart.

Sonja did a dirty thing, she knew it was dirty.  If Bethenny films with her, it not only gives the crook publicity, but also reinforces Sonja's shady ways.  What would be next?  Who else would capitalize on Sonja's greed?  What new feud would Sonja cause about her business?  One and DONE.  That's the only way you can handle that bullshit.

As far as filming?  The others could easily include Sonja.  Bethenny wouldn't show, but so what?  Bravo would still air it if they were interesting.  Carole probably wouldn't show up for a "trash Bethenny" session, or anything where she has to spend much time with Luann, but she'd show up for anyone not Luann. 

I don't think it's the show giving Bethenny special favors, it's a business.  They'll air anything that grabs attention and interest of the audience.  It's up to the others to bring that, not rely solely on Bethenny for fireworks and repartee.  Ramona can cause fireworks with a glass of wine in one hand and the other hand smoothing her hair.  

Although I believe Sonja agreed to be the face of TG because it was easy money, I don't buy that she did it to "hurt" Bethenny. Sonja doesn't look past the nose on her face, she is shallow and doesn't think deep thoughts like what the repercussions could/would be with her co-workers doing this. She is basically a very lazy person who wants to kick back, party and roll in the dough someone else hands her. The names, TG/SKG are different enough that I really doubt anyone will confuse them and IMO, Sonja has as much right to try her hand in the booze world just like Bethenny/Ramona have done and that Luann is about to enter. That may be another reason that Bethenny is so upset with Luann.....she is also about to become competition in the liquor market as well. I honestly don't think Sonja thought Bethenny would be upset about TG, like I said, Sonja doesn't think that far in advance or long term at all.

As for the others filming with Bethenny verses Sonja, they won't do it very often because the odds of those scenes making it past editing are low, very low, and they all know it. That doesn't mean that they are boring scenes, it just means that production/Andy/Bravo favor Bethenny above all the rest combined. That is of course, unless they (Sonja) is making a scene about being frozen out.

Bethenny can still film with Sonja, she doesn't need to engage with her past a chilly "Hello" and keep her conversations to the others but I don't see that happening because Bethenny needs the camera on her at all times. And Yes, they do give Bethenny special favors, next episode count how many TH segments they each get during the show and then compare the numbers.

[WireWrap]

6 minutes ago, seasick said:

And I'm not 100% sure either.   But a "made for TV'  restaurant/wine launch does not a brand make. The fact that they wanted dopey Ramona and Sonja to be the 'faces' are not images that I'd like to glom on to.  Hard to say really.

Peter/Ramona were "partners" in a restaurant, AOA?, last season. LOL Who knows, if the restaurant opens up soon then it was real...otherwise, it is a made for storyline but either way Bethenny shouldn't be upset at all IMO, as neither is competition for her. LOL

[halkatla]

I´m cringing as I write this but, after having read through most of the thread, I started wondering how it would be if Aviva was still on the show. I really disliked her, almost on a Kelly level, but I kind of would have liked to see her in the mix now. How would she have behaved around Bethenny in a fit of rage? Would Carole´s dislike of her have made Bethenny attack her? Would she and Dorinda become friends? I´m just wondering about it, maybe her crazy would have balanced out Bethenny´s madness...

[Trooper York]

Well the reason Aviva and Heather are not around is because they are the only ones who could stand up to Bethenny. Bethenny can not abide anyone who has a chance to stand against her. That is why Jill or Kelly are also not coming back.

Now it is also possible that Aviva might have been Bethenny's special friend in place of Carole. Bethenny did recommend Aviva to Satan Andy after all. If Aviva was in the cast and was Bethenny's Sancho Panza then Carole would not have the chance to dump Heather to better deal up to being Bethenny's minion. Thus she would have been swept out with Heather and Kristen. Too bad. I think that would have made for a much better show. Aviva brought the crazy. She had the pervy Dad and the wooden leg. It would have been epic.

[Umbelina]

There is absolutely no way that if Bethenny had scenes with Sonja, that Sonja wouldn't bring up Tipsy Girl.  THAT is what she's getting paid to do by the sleazeball. 

Also, while I agree Sonja only cares about herself and making a quick buck, I complete disagree that she didn't know this was a sleazy thing to do.  She just didn't care, just like she didn't care about lying to the movie people and being found guilty for that in court.  She thought she could con them, and she thought she could con Bethenny.  She had consequences then, paying them a boatload of money, and she has consequences now, because Bethenny won't let her promote some guy's product while piggybacking off Bethenny being upset.  She disengaged, as any intelligent business person would do.

That hurts Sonja?  Too damn bad.  Maybe if she faces enough music she will clean up her act, and realize she has no money, no products, no yacht, and no credibility left as the hurt, naive ingenue.  Those days are gone.  It's about time someone called her on this crap, first the courts, and now Bethenny.  Will she learn?  I really doubt it, she'll just continue on her Grey Garden's path.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Umbelina
had to add in the yacht

[zoeysmom]

23 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

There is absolutely no way that if Bethenny had scenes with Sonja, that Sonja wouldn't bring up Tipsy Girl.  THAT is what she's getting paid to do by the sleazeball. 

Also, while I agree Sonja only cares about herself and making a quick buck, I complete disagree that she didn't know this was a sleazy thing to do.  She just didn't care, just like she didn't care about lying to the movie people and being found guilty for that in court.  She thought she could con them, and she thought she could con Bethenny.  She had consequences then, paying them a boatload of money, and she has consequences now, because Bethenny won't let her promote some guy's product while piggybacking off Bethenny being upset.  She disengaged, as any intelligent business person would do.

That hurts Sonja?  Too damn bad.  Maybe if she faces enough music she will clean up her act, and realize she has no money, no products, and no credibility left as the hurt, naive ingenue.  Those days are gone.  It's about time someone called her on this crap, first the courts, and now Bethenny.  Will she learn?  I really doubt it, she'll just continue on her Grey Garden's path.

What have the majority of the RHNYC been saying about Sonja and her businesses for the last four years?  Epic failures.  So that leaves Sonja getting a job-no one has suggested where Sonja could get a job.  The only successful thing Sonja has done in her career is promote restaurants and snag a rich husband.  So on one hand they are telling Sonja she sucks at business and when she goes back to doing what she does best it becomes all about Bethenny.

I am not saying Sonja is correct but Bethenny annihilated John for saying Skinny Cow and Skinnygirl were similar (The fact Nestle filed objections to Skinnygirl weren't shown on the show).  I believe she said, "I am a girl, you are a cow."  Outside of Sonja's presence she said she wouldn't care if Sonja called in Stupid Girl or Drunk Girl.  There is nothing remotely similar between Tipsy and Skinny.  On camera she called Peter and Sonja's brand-a cheater brand.  Tipsy Girl is a restaurant, or soon to be, apparently opening in the next few days, Skinnygirl is not a restaurant.  As far as using the show as a vehicle, all RH have equal rights in promoting their products or endorsements, as far as I am concerned.  If Bethenny's partners have a problem with it, they need to realize Bethenny is not a producer and the producer can run with whatever story they want.  It was extra work for Bethenny over a Page Six story most likely planted by Ramona or production.

I kind of applaud Sonja blowing off Ramona and Luann's advice.  This ridiculous "Apology Crafted by Ramona" sounds stupid.  I don't think we need Rampna as mediator because she is the one that starts most of the conflict and certainly is behind the rumors.

[Umbelina]

Come on!

There is a huge similarity!  Both promoted by housewives, both on Bravo, both in NY, both names have a two syllable first word that ends in Y, both have girl for the second word in the name.  The only real difference is that Bethenny actually did the work, and Sonja and Mr. Sleazeball crook, who tried to con Ramona last year, are simply trying to get publicity off Betheny's name and brand.

Had Sonja agree to a deal with "Sexy J" wine or "Sonja Morgan Presents" or "Sonja" or something original?  NO one would be talking about this, and Bethenny wouldn't give a damn.  This was a completely calculated move to get a new restaurant free publicity, and as long as they threw, or promised to throw, some bucks at Sonja?  She was all in.

She still thinks she can cry and poor little me out of business situations.  Apparently the judge made no impression on her, but you'd think bankruptcy might have had some effect, if not writing checks for millions.  Nope.  She jumped right back into sleaze, and Ramona even warned her about that guy. 

So, she might get a few bucks from him (*doubtful, he's a crook) but she's not going to give him publicity by filming with Bethenny.  At all.  She participated in a stupid strike against Bravo, who knew they had her by the titties because she was, like the other strike-mate, Luann, desperate for money.  So, she's stuck with one pissed off housewife that is refusing to publicize the crook's brand, the only reason he even used her, and even less money because Bethenny is reality gold, and she won't film with her. 

Neither of those things would have happened, but Sonja still thinks she can charm/con her way out of trouble.  The restaurant and so-called wine will fail, and once promoting that shyster's crap is no longer an issue, I really doubt Bethenny will freeze her out of anything.  Will she have a wary eye?  Yes.  In the real world you pay when you do sneaky shit like this.  Furthermore, I don't think Bethenny being vindictive in not filming with her.  She's simply putting a stop to having herself USED to sell his crap.  Not Sonja's.  His.

Suck it up Sonja.  What will it take for you to learn you can't pull shady business deals and expect things to go well?

Edited June 13, 2016 by Umbelina

[zoeysmom]

When you go too far trying to be right and you were always so very wrong. 

Yes, Ramona posted a picture of her dog pooing to prove he or she goes outdoors.  Probably one of her more tasteful posts.  (Why is it I can hear the chorus of "Money Can't Buy  You Class" as the background music.)

[zoeysmom]

45 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Come on!

There is a huge similarity!  Both promoted by housewives, both on Bravo, both in NY, both names have a two syllable first word that ends in Y, both have girl for the second word in the name.  The only real difference is that Bethenny actually did the work, and Sonja and Mr. Sleazeball crook, who tried to con Ramona last year, are simply trying to get publicity off Betheny's name and brand.

Had Sonja agree to a deal with "Sexy J" wine or "Sonja Morgan Presents" or "Sonja" or something original?  NO one would be talking about this, and Bethenny wouldn't give a damn.  This was a completely calculated move to get a new restaurant free publicity, and as long as they threw, or promised to throw, some bucks at Sonja?  She was all in.

She still thinks she can cry and poor little me out of business situations.  Apparently the judge made no impression on her, but you'd think bankruptcy might have had some effect, if not writing checks for millions.  Nope.  She jumped right back into sleaze, and Ramona even warned her about that guy. 

So, she might get a few bucks from him (*doubtful, he's a crook) but she's not going to give him publicity by filming with Bethenny.  At all.  She participated in a stupid strike against Bravo, who knew they had her by the titties because she was, like the other strike-mate, Luann, desperate for money.  So, she's stuck with one pissed off housewife that is refusing to publicize the crook's brand, the only reason he even used her, and even less money because Bethenny is reality gold, and she won't film with her. 

Neither of those things would have happened, but Sonja still thinks she can charm/con her way out of trouble.  The restaurant and so-called wine will fail, and once promoting that shyster's crap is no longer an issue, I really doubt Bethenny will freeze her out of anything.  Will she have a wary eye?  Yes.  In the real world you pay when you do sneaky shit like this.  Furthermore, I don't think Bethenny being vindictive in not filming with her.  She's simply putting a stop to having herself USED to sell his crap.  Not Sonja's.  His.

Suck it up Sonja.  What will it take for you to learn you can't pull shady business deals and expect things to go well?

For trademarks the endorsements or where they advertise is not relevant. 

Bethenny's brand which apparently is not as recognizable as she claims is all one word.  Skinnygirl.  She ran out and applied for trademarks on Tipsygirl.  Peter's restaurant is Tipsy Girl.

This is not Sonja's wine, she is a celebrity endorsement.   Sonja expressed she would have rather had the wine named after her.  Peter, and I do think to a certain degree he is cunning, won't back a brand for her but will for a restaurant.  It was why the distributors question was so foreign to Sonja.  She is not part of the business only an endorsement.  If tomorrow Sonja, Ramona or Carole want to be the face of Skinny Cow chocolates they can.

I do not believe Sonja and Luann are in the same place financially.  I will say it again, Luann sold her house for $8 million, and bought another for $3.1 million.  I think there is lots of money in the bank for Luann.  Sonja is the one who is struggling.

When Bethenny is done with someone she is done.  It is up to producers to decide if Bethenny leaving will cause a drop in ratings-it didn't last time-they went up.  Her return last year did not shake the ratings up.  Luann is every bit as responsible as Bethenny for the ratings.

Quite frankly this info was out months before filming began and if Bethenny and/or her partners were concerned they would have filed objections to the original trademark.  I think Bethenny freezing Sonja out is a double edged sword.  As much as Bethenny thinks she can she needs someone to bounce off of-first it was John, then Sonja and know Luann.  Bethenny is now Goliath and maybe people don't want to see an uneven balance of power.  She was on for three years and left on a rating high, went on to do her own show and when that one closed the ratings were way down.

[WireWrap]

I just caught something on the rerun of last weeks show. Bethenny actually tells Luann that she "can't" speak on things she wasn't present for (Sonja/TG/takedown)! Really? She has the balls to say this to Luann after berating her on secondhand gossip that she wasn't witness too but Luann can't do the same to her? LOL  Bethenny really needs to get over herself!

Edited June 13, 2016 by WireWrap

[zoeysmom]

4 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I just caught something on the rerun of last weeks show. Bethenny actually tells Luann that she "can't" speak on things she was present for (Sonja/TG/takedown)! Really? She has the balls to say this to Luann after berating her on secondhand gossip that she wasn't witness too but Luann can't do the same to her? LOL  Bethenny really needs to get over herself!

GMTA I was thinking the same thing today-or when Bethenny said  Luann can't respond to Ramona's accusations with one we actually saw on film (Turks and Caicos)  or have Dorinda,the hostess weigh in her own home about her friend Luann when Bethenny said Luann's friends don't trust her.

[oakville]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 8:49 PM, QuinnM said:

So Carole won't film with Luann until Luann opens a vein or something. Or maybe until Luann apologizes without giggling. That would help. I was one of the unfortunate followers during the Twitter war. Carole name calling was you're crazy, you're mean, stop if. Luann's was trying to recapture your youth, old woman with a boy etc.. Pedophile was not on Twitter and I don't think anyone said it was. Luann did say some ugly ugly things  she also kept saying that her niece was still seeing Adam.  Which she has denied  

Betheny, I'm betting, has a bigger problem. Jim Beam is saying you signed a contract saying you would protect the brand. You CANNOT talk about this Tipsy Shit without violating that contract. 

So it is two different things to my mind. But combined it's a shit show. However since they are getting their highest ratings in 5 years, it is  a shit show we all want to watch. 

I would think that Jim Beam has a morals clause in their contract with Bethenny that if she does anything that "harms the brand" , they can stop royalty payments to her or sue her to get back royalties already paid to her. It's similar to professional athletes that endorse products. Tiger Woods lost sponsors after his sex scandal. Bethenny's behaviour on the show can't be helpful in creating a positive image for her products.

[QuinnM]

Quote

t's similar to professional athletes that endorse products.

Well not really. She is a partner as well as a brand ambassador.  So she is on a level playing field where Tiger is essentially an employee. But I am sure there were many conference calls with lawyers as the Tipsy shit hit the fan. The fact that they are on the same show makes it complicated. If Sonja won't stfu about Tipsy in Bethenny's presence then Bethenny will not film with her. My guess is that is the acceptable solution Beam and she agreed on  

That is what Lu and Ramonja are trying to tell her. But she is too stupid. She really is fascinately clueless. 

[oakville]

13 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Well not really. She is a partner as well as a brand ambassador.  So she is on a level playing field where Tiger is essentially an employee. But I am sure there were many conference calls with lawyers as the Tipsy shit hit the fan. The fact that they are on the same show makes it complicated. If Sonja won't stfu about Tipsy in Bethenny's presence then Bethenny will not film with her. My guess is that is the acceptable solution Beam and she agreed on  

That is what Lu and Ramonja are trying to tell her. But she is too stupid. She really is fascinately clueless. 

I agree that Bethenny should be furious with Sonja for trying to create a similar product to her SkinnyGirl Margarita. However, wouldn't it make sense to let her lawyers handle Sonja. I am sure that a couple of lawyers letters to Sonja would discourage her from proceeding with the business. I do think that Bethenny's nastiness towards fellow cast members will affect sales of her products.

[seasick]

This is where I get confused.  On one hand the cry has been that the entire show is ruled by Bethenny.  in fact I  thought I read here sometime ago  that she was actually now a producer.  OTOH there are story lines that are offensive and threatening to MissB and her brand.   So  what's the deal? Which is it?

   (This is why i think TG is manufactured, as was the Skinny Cow argument and the LuAnn insinuations about 'being there".  Someone suggested that these are simply oppty's for B to get the Skinny Girl brand name into the script, which sounds plausible.)

[Rainny]

19 hours ago, breezy424 said:

So, the whole gummy bear thing started because Beth offered Kelly pretzels while riding in the car in St. Johns.  Kelly said she doesn't eat processed food.  Later Kelly pulls out gummy bears.  That's screwed up no matter how you look at it. And, as much as I can't stand Beth, it's on Kelly for being stupid.  I can't even call that ignorance.  It's just pure stupid arrogance.

Even to be part of a 'village' that produces an Emmy or a Peabody is an accomplishment.  Those villages are few.  I won't take that away from Carole, no matter how I feel about her behavior this season. Carole is entitled to how 'she' wants to live her life.  She's never thrown any award in anyone's face.  She's never thrown her husband or her relationships with a very well know family in anyone's face. 

Not working outside the home?  That's a different story.  Being a full time parent is a very tough job.  Carole doesn't appreciate it because she's never had that experience and is clearly making assumptions.  She's in no place to make that kind of judgement.  And speaking of which, maybe Jules will more appreciate her next 'nanny'.  Maybe she 'and' her husband will appreciate that there's more to be a nanny than being bilingual and picking out coordinating outfits.  

I see that too, but even so, Bethenny could have just let it go because they already had an idea that Kelly wasn't all there. Like Sonja said at the dinner they were arguing with a crazy person. 

Sometimes it's just better for everyone to let some stupid shit that doesn't mean anything go. 

[Almost 3000]

3 minutes ago, seasick said:

This is where I get confused.  On one hand the cry has been that the entire show is ruled by Bethenny.  in fact I  thought I read here sometime ago  that she was actually now a producer.  OTOH there are story lines that are offensive and threatening to MissB and her brand.   So  what's the deal? Which is it?

   (This is why i think TG is manufactured, as was the Skinny Cow argument and the LuAnn insinuations about 'being there".  Someone suggested that these are simply oppty's for B to get the Skinny Girl brand name into the script, which sounds plausible.)

Your last comment is what I think is happening and is exactly why B refusing to work with Sonja AND setting it up so other won't either makes B a B.

[lunastartron]

Since we're relitigating Scary Island, I have to note that I don't recall Bethenny backing off at all when Kelly first exhibited indicators of a mental health episode; I do recall her eventually conceding that something medical was awry but only after Sonja pointed out that very obvious reality and did her own "Jack and Jill went up the hill . . ." connect-the-dots explanation to Bethenny that engaging with and ridiculing a clinically ill adversary wasn't the most advisable tack to take.

What I also remember: Bethenny corralling Ramona and Alex away from the table and subsequently retreating with them into a nearby sitting area to literally howl in laughter about how she, Bethenny, had been oh-so-right about Kelly all along (something to the effect of "fuck you! fuck you! I *told* you!"). All while Sonja alone actually managed to muster some humanity and treat Kelly with the compassion that the situation accorded.

And I say all of this as a viewer who was definitely on Team B for most of that season, the first I regularly watched.

5 hours ago, halkatla said:

I´m cringing as I write this but, after having read through most of the thread, I started wondering how it would be if Aviva was still on the show. I really disliked her, almost on a Kelly level, but I kind of would have liked to see her in the mix now. How would she have behaved around Bethenny in a fit of rage? Would Carole´s dislike of her have made Bethenny attack her? Would she and Dorinda become friends? I´m just wondering about it, maybe her crazy would have balanced out Bethenny´s madness...

 

4 hours ago, Trooper York said:

Well the reason Aviva and Heather are not around is because they are the only ones who could stand up to Bethenny. Bethenny can not abide anyone who has a chance to stand against her. That is why Jill or Kelly are also not coming back.

Now it is also possible that Aviva might have been Bethenny's special friend in place of Carole. Bethenny did recommend Aviva to Satan Andy after all. If Aviva was in the cast and was Bethenny's Sancho Panza then Carole would not have the chance to dump Heather to better deal up to being Bethenny's minion. Thus she would have been swept out with Heather and Kristen. Too bad. I think that would have made for a much better show. Aviva brought the crazy. She had the pervy Dad and the wooden leg. It would have been epic.

Aviva would lay Bethenny the fuck out. I'm one of Aviva's few fans but I think she clearly established that she's neither a lackey nor a pushover; she is foundationally an assertive personality and knows how to stand up for herself, arguably to a kamikaze extent. And she's probably the only cast member past or present who would have no compunction about responding to B with a correlative degree of viciousness.

8 hours ago, savannah1985 said:

Wasn't there a product called "Skinny Bitch" before Bethany's "SkinnyGirl"?

Yes, Skinny Bitch dates to circa 2004/2005. I was actually confused when I initially started watching this series about whether or not there was any connection between the two product lines since both revolved around healthy eating/diet concerns.

[breezy424]

I think Beth's need to win and 'be right' outweighs her full knowledge that it's not a big deal.  Sonja and Tipsy Girl really had no impact on Beth's brand.  Yeah, she is annoyed but the the bottom line her 'brand' is not being hurt.  She even admitted that Sonja and Tipsy Girl wasn't a big deal.  But....in Beth's world, no one 'f's' with Beth.  And that is one of the major reasons why Beth is so 'f'ed up.  Hope that makes sense.  Beth is doing an incredible job of destroying her 'brand'.

I still can't put my finger on why Beth is sooo gun ho on bringing Lu down.  Except for Beth does hold a grudge and doesn't get over stuff.  I really don't think it has anything to do with Carole and Lu's situation.  Beth is just so angry and it's always about Beth.

I also think Beth has a lot of anxiety about the future of her 'brand'.  She didn't make $100,000,000 plus on her deal with Beam.  She did make a ton of money - probably between 40 and sixty million.  That deal was about future sales as much as present.  Future sales after the deal kept going down.  She's come out with a number of different products with Beam Suntory but those products haven't been 'gold'.  Far from it.  Suntory put a hold on most of her products being introduced to the European market (very telling).  Skinnygirl vodka was a miss.  The wines were doing ok but nothing impressive (28 calorie difference with a huge affect on taste doesn't cut it).  Beth has always wanted to be Martha Stewart.  She's not.  Never will be.  No matter how one may feel about Martha, the woman was incredibly successful.  Sure, Beth could retire tomorrow and live extremely comfortably.  Happy?  No.

Lu is coming out with a vodka line.  Is Beth pissed about that?  Who knows.  Beth is pissed about everything that might compete with 'her'.  She can't throw shade at Ro because Ro had a wine before Beth.  Same for Heather and shapewear, although she did try to give Heather advice about getting into activewear, something that Heather was already doing.  But thanks for your input Beth....

[zoeysmom]

30 minutes ago, lunastartron said:

Since we're relitigating Scary Island, I have to note that I don't recall Bethenny backing off at all when Kelly first exhibited indicators of a mental health episode; I do recall her eventually conceding that something medical was awry but only after Sonja pointed out that very obvious reality and did her own "Jack and Jill went up the hill . . ." connect-the-dots explanation to Bethenny that engaging with and ridiculing a clinically ill adversary wasn't the most advisable tack to take.

What I also remember: Bethenny corralling Ramona and Alex away from the table and subsequently retreating with them into a nearby sitting area to literally howl in laughter about how she, Bethenny, had been oh-so-right about Kelly all along (something to the effect of "fuck you! fuck you! I *told* you!"). All while Sonja alone actually managed to muster some humanity and treat Kelly with the compassion that the situation accorded.

And I say all of this as a viewer who was definitely on Team B for most of that season, the first I regularly watched.

 

Aviva would lay Bethenny the fuck out. I'm one of Aviva's few fans but I think she clearly established that she's neither a lackey nor a pushover; she is foundationally an assertive personality and knows how to stand up for herself, arguably to a kamikaze extent. And she's probably the only cast member past or present who would have no compunction about responding to B with a correlative degree of viciousness.

Yes, Skinny Bitch dates to circa 2004/2005. I was actually confused when I initially started watching this series about whether or not there was any connection between the two product lines since both revolved around healthy eating/diet concerns.

Bethenny definitely did spike the ball in the end zone and do the taunting dance when it was clear Kelly had lost it.  It is like her current tirade she was trying to push and push Luann into doing something untold so she could relive her victory dance and hold hands with Ramona and Carole and howl with laughter.  Ramona interrupting when they were finally getting down to the substance and then make it about her. 

What Luann did was try and pull things back together for the sake of Dorinda and Carole could not take anymore.  Well Luann is living her reality with the etiquette stuff and being respectful to the hostess. 

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, oakville said:

I agree that Bethenny should be furious with Sonja for trying to create a similar product to her SkinnyGirl Margarita. However, wouldn't it make sense to let her lawyers handle Sonja. I am sure that a couple of lawyers letters to Sonja would discourage her from proceeding with the business. I do think that Bethenny's nastiness towards fellow cast members will affect sales of her products.

Sonja didn't create anything.  A shyster came to her and asked to use her name so Bethenny would be upset and it would give their bar free press.  There is no way Bethenny would involve lawyers because that alone would also perpetuate the fight/press that Bethenny has now shut down cold by not filming with their shill, Sonja.  She handled it.  The guy is a crook, the bar will fail, over and done.

1 hour ago, seasick said:

This is where I get confused.  On one hand the cry has been that the entire show is ruled by Bethenny.  in fact I  thought I read here sometime ago  that she was actually now a producer.  OTOH there are story lines that are offensive and threatening to MissB and her brand.   So  what's the deal? Which is it?

   (This is why i think TG is manufactured, as was the Skinny Cow argument and the LuAnn insinuations about 'being there".  Someone suggested that these are simply oppty's for B to get the Skinny Girl brand name into the script, which sounds plausible.)

Andy says she's not a producer.  I believe him.  Her only "power" is that she is usually very good on camera and Andy has known her for years and likes her.

14 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

I think Beth's need to win and 'be right' outweighs her full knowledge that it's not a big deal.  Sonja and Tipsy Girl really had no impact on Beth's brand.  Yeah, she is annoyed but the the bottom line her 'brand' is not being hurt.  She even admitted that Sonja and Tipsy Girl wasn't a big deal.  But....in Beth's world, no one 'f's' with Beth.  And that is one of the major reasons why Beth is so 'f'ed up.  Hope that makes sense.  Beth is doing an incredible job of destroying her 'brand'.

I still can't put my finger on why Beth is sooo gun ho on bringing Lu down.  Except for Beth does hold a grudge and doesn't get over stuff.  I really don't think it has anything to do with Carole and Lu's situation.  Beth is just so angry and it's always about Beth.

I also think Beth has a lot of anxiety about the future of her 'brand'.  She didn't make $100,000,000 plus on her deal with Beam.  She did make a ton of money - probably between 40 and sixty million.  That deal was about future sales as much as present.  Future sales after the deal kept going down.  She's come out with a number of different products with Beam Suntory but those products haven't been 'gold'.  Far from it.  Suntory put a hold on most of her products being introduced to the European market (very telling).  Skinnygirl vodka was a miss.  The wines were doing ok but nothing impressive (28 calorie difference with a huge affect on taste doesn't cut it).  Beth has always wanted to be Martha Stewart.  She's not.  Never will be.  No matter how one may feel about Martha, the woman was incredibly successful.  Sure, Beth could retire tomorrow and live extremely comfortably.  Happy?  No.

Lu is coming out with a vodka line.  Is Beth pissed about that?  Who knows.  Beth is pissed about everything that might compete with 'her'.  She can't throw shade at Ro because Ro had a wine before Beth.  Same for Heather and shapewear, although she did try to give Heather advice about getting into activewear, something that Heather was already doing.  But thanks for your input Beth....

She's not afraid of the cheater brand/Sonja/the shyster.  That doesn't mean she wants to be used by them for press though.

The vodka brand was a photoshop.  Even if it were real, why would Bethenny care?  The Countess Line is in no way related to her business. 

I think there will never be enough money to make her feel secure, a holdover from her childhood, but maybe someday.  Nah.  She's also a workaholic by nature.

34 minutes ago, lunastartron said:

Since we're relitigating Scary Island, I have to note that I don't recall Bethenny backing off at all when Kelly first exhibited indicators of a mental health episode; I do recall her eventually conceding that something medical was awry but only after Sonja pointed out that very obvious reality and did her own "Jack and Jill went up the hill . . ." connect-the-dots explanation to Bethenny that engaging with and ridiculing a clinically ill adversary wasn't the most advisable tack to take.

What I also remember: Bethenny corralling Ramona and Alex away from the table and subsequently retreating with them into a nearby sitting area to literally howl in laughter about how she, Bethenny, had been oh-so-right about Kelly all along (something to the effect of "fuck you! fuck you! I *told* you!"). All while Sonja alone actually managed to muster some humanity and treat Kelly with the compassion that the situation accorded.

And I say all of this as a viewer who was definitely on Team B for most of that season, the first I regularly watched.

 

Aviva would lay Bethenny the fuck out. I'm one of Aviva's few fans but I think she clearly established that she's neither a lackey nor a pushover; she is foundationally an assertive personality and knows how to stand up for herself, arguably to a kamikaze extent. And she's probably the only cast member past or present who would have no compunction about responding to B with a correlative degree of viciousness.

Yes, Skinny Bitch dates to circa 2004/2005. I was actually confused when I initially started watching this series about whether or not there was any connection between the two product lines since both revolved around healthy eating/diet concerns.

Well, I think the primary reason for that was Bethenny was the one Crazy Kelly was going after, so it was harder to sit back and realize that Kelly had lost her mind.  Sonja wasn't attacked by Kelly. Bethenny was, every single moment, and she was in scenes with the nut before as well.  I think there was part of her that did feel finally justified with an "I told you she was nuts!  It wasn't just editing!" but she pulled it together fast enough when Sonja pointed out this was more than that.  Actually, for some reason I thought Alex spotted it as well.

It's not just the name of a brand, it's the circumstances involved.  You can't own common words like skinny or cow or girl.  What makes Sonja's brand such an OBVIOUS cheater brand is not just the name, it's the circumstances and the crook that's behind it.  He doesn't give a damn about the wine, he's trying to get press for his restaurant.  Bethenny's not giving it to him, so Sonja won't get paid much, if she ever was going to get a cent from him at all.  Ramona warned her, and saw through him last year. 

[WireWrap]

3 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Sonja didn't create anything.  A shyster came to her and asked to use her name so Bethenny would be upset and it would give their bar free press.  There is no way Bethenny would involve lawyers because that alone would also perpetuate the fight/press that Bethenny has now shut down cold by not filming with their shill, Sonja.  She handled it.  The guy is a crook, the bar will fail, over and done.

Andy says she's not a producer.  I believe him.  Her only "power" is that she is usually very good on camera and Andy has known her for years and likes her.

She's not afraid of the cheater brand/Sonja/the shyster.  That doesn't mean she wants to be used by them for press though.

The vodka brand was a photoshop.  Even if it were real, why would Bethenny care?  The Countess Line is in no way related to her business. 

I think there will never be enough money to make her feel secure, a holdover from her childhood, but maybe someday.  Nah.  She's also a workaholic by nature.

Well, I think the primary reason for that was Bethenny was the one Crazy Kelly was going after, so it was harder to sit back and realize that Kelly had lost her mind.  Sonja wasn't attacked by Kelly. Bethenny was, every single moment, and she was in scenes with the nut before as well.  I think there was part of her that did feel finally justified with an "I told you she was nuts!  It wasn't just editing!" but she pulled it together fast enough when Sonja pointed out this was more than that.  Actually, for some reason I thought Alex spotted it as well.

It's not just the name of a brand, it's the circumstances involved.  You can't own common words like skinny or cow or girl.  What makes Sonja's brand such an OBVIOUS cheater brand is not just the name, it's the circumstances and the crook that's behind it.  He doesn't give a damn about the wine, he's trying to get press for his restaurant.  Bethenny's not giving it to him, so Sonja won't get paid much, if she ever was going to get a cent from him at all.  Ramona warned her, and saw through him last year. 

Seriously, I really doubt that Peter and his real partners counted on Bethenny for press, he would have gotten press if Ramona or Sonja were the face of any wine name he/they chose. All they wanted was for the drink/restaurant name to be mentioned on the show, just like he/Ramona promoted AOA? last season and that got plenty of air time. LOL