Flip Or Flop - General Discussion

[iMonrey]

Poor Tarek is having a lousy couple of years. First thyroid cancer and now back surgery. You could tell he was in real pain.

 

I'm starting to get a sense of how this series is put together. A few episodes back there was a shot of Tarek talking and the scar from his thyroid surgery was clearly visible and red, as though it were still recent. Yet in the next scene it was nowhere to be found. I think these shows are stitched together over several months time and then not shown in any particular order.

 

In other words, they probably film a bunch of "before" scenes on houses they haven't started remodeling yet, then film all the "work in progress" scenes on however many houses they're flipping at the time, then film all the open houses around the same time. Then the episodes are edited together and shown in whatever order makes the most sense. They do this "time to find another house to flip" tagline to maintain an illusion they're doing these one at a time even though that's not really how it works.

 

MoreCoffeePlease I hated those cabinets too.

[magdalene]

All those lawns they keep putting in will die a miserable death once SoCal water restrictions start in June.

[WildPlum]

All those lawns they keep putting in will die a miserable death once SoCal water restrictions start in June.

Since I rarely see them doing the right kind of prep for new sod before they put it down, I think it is likely that the sod will die soon, water or no water. It actually takes a lot of prep to get new sod to "take."

[mojito]

 

That is why people move out past Riverside or up into the high desert of Victorville or Palmdale and have 2 hour commutes.

They're moving to Texas in droves (as jobs relocate). Yes, I know our scenery and weather are lacking. But at least your commute to work improves, you can buy a home for much less, and WE NOW HAVE WATER.

 

I liked the shiny cabinets and the whiteness of this week's kitchen and am glad that Christina is shaking things up a bit. I was okay with the black and white kitchen that she did last week. I wouldn't have picked it out myself, but wouldn't let it sway my opinion of the house and I wouldn't change it once I moved in.

[auntjess]

I like the shiny cabinets, but prefer them in a color other than white.
So glad she kept that sliding screen.  I loved it.
I agree about the lawns they put in.  I've seen drought-resistant grass used on other shows.

I'd rather have hardscape than artificial turf, though, if they were the only choices.
In the earlier shows, she looked more pregnant, so they must indeed be out of order.

[mojito]

They make some pretty good artificial turf these days, but I don't like the thought of maintaining it and would rather see cactus, boulders, and other drought-resistant plants.

[Bastet]

Artificial turf is outlawed in many California cities (although a number of city councils are now considering rescinding such ordinances -- and the state is contemplating a prohibition on the bans).  And it wouldn't go over well with most buyers in many of the neighborhoods they're flipping in.  But other lawn alternatives are increasingly gaining favor - and cities are giving rebates for replacing sod with drought-resistant landscaping - so we might see them change this aspect of their routine as the drought goes on.

 

I catch this show from time to time, but it's not a favorite because their style is not in line with my tastes, and, more importantly, it's repetitive (such is the nature of designing a house as a flip, rather than a personal home).  So an episode here or there is enjoyable, as they seem like nice people and they hire contractors who do things properly, but after two or three in a row I lose interest.

[Amethyst]

This is the second time I've strongly disagreed with a design choice. That flooring they chose was just weird. It looked like something you'd see in a cartoon. Like a cartoonist actually painted that on the floor. 

 

Are you referring to the Garden Grove house?  I just saw that one tonight on the marathon.  That was a huge misfire, especially since they laid it throughout the whole house.  It reminded me of a wall mural.

 

The thing is, the design didn't look so bad when they were laying it.  But once the laminate had been waxed and polished, the lines were glaringly obvious and it looked terrible.  One of the buyers kind of screwed up his face when he saw it and said it looked "peculiar."  Christina usually makes great design choices, but this one was way too taste specific and it probably cost them buyers.

[Gbb]

I follow Tarek and Christina on their Flip or Flop FB page. Last night they posted asking how people liked their new show? I was amused by the number of people dissing them for "firing" Izzy. And this morning I was even more amused at how the manufactured drama for a "reality" show can backfire, because they posted this on FB re: Izzy "firing" -

 

"We did not fire izzy. We just didn't use him for the remainder of the craftsman project. We continued to use him after this flip and still use him currently. Sorry if some people took this the wrong way. We use our own crew as well as a few other crews including Battres. We are growing like crazy and growth involves change. We are working hard on our growing business as well as making great shows. We [love]  our fans and Thanks for watching!"

 

I can't believe some people take things so literally. It's teevee - lol.

I don't know. Izzy's only been in 1 episode since the Craftsman ep and it could have been recorded earlier for all we know. Now 1 episode into the new season and still no Izzy? I hope I'm wrong but I suspect he may be gone :(

[iMonrey]

I think Izzy is still around but I wonder what happened to Daniel. That was their original contractor in Season 1. Izzy came on board end of season 1 or beginning of Season 2. Maybe Daniel wanted extra money to be on TV.

 

 

 

In the earlier shows, she looked more pregnant, so they must indeed be out of order.

 

Is Christina pregnant? I wonder how Tarek managed that with his bad back.

[LizDC]

They did IVF-- http://www.people.com/article/tarek-el-moussa-christina-el-moussa-hgtv-flip-flop-thyroid-cancer-pregnancy-update-exclusive

[Gbb]

I think Izzy is still around.

Actually, I saw on their Facebook page that they've started their own construction company, T&C Construction, so I think we've seen the last of Izzy. I totally understand it from a financial perspective, but I'm going to miss him.

[Portia]

Did today's episode--with the break-ins and vandalism--set off anyone's BS detectors? The destruction seemed really targeted to me: what are the chances that drunken vandals would break every single door, the floors, and (wtf?) the pool pump? And my husband pointed out that the spray paint was just random squiggles--no tags, gang signs, or blurred-out obscenities. Did this strike anyone besides us as a lame recreation or a flat-out fabrication?

[valdawn]

Yes Portia I was coming here to post the same thing. Especially when Tarek said keep all the doors and then of course they were all busted my BS meter went into overdrive!

[MrPissyPuppy]

It looked like they bought a package of red solo cups and just scattered them around randomly too.   

[Portia]

Ugh, the more I think about it, the more it rubs me the wrong way. I can handle a certain amount of artifice--such as the stagey open house scenes where the visitors are clearly miked and coached as to what to comment on--but in this case, how stupid do they think we are? It very well may be that they were recreating something that really happened (as they reportedly did with the stolen car episode), but this was so badly done that I think it just makes them look like big fat liars.  I really like Tarek and Christina. I don't like feeling this way about their show.

[Bastet]

Certainly vacant houses are vandalized, things are stolen, people losing a house to foreclosure wreck the house on their way out the door, etc.  But I, too, thought this particular trashed house didn't look natural.  Like these were all the things they were going to replace anyway, so to make good TV they staged scenes of destruction before going ahead with the planned demolition.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Bastet

[iMonrey]

OK so, not just me then. I had the same reaction as valdawn that it seemed awfully coincidental they specifically mentioned keeping all the doors - which is something they never even comment on in most walk-thrus. I supposed it's possible they were going to demo this whole house anyway so they decided to make "good TV' by staging some sort of vandalism. The only thing that still makes me wonder is that the floors seemed to be in such good shape it's hard to believe they'd damage those. I don't know.

 

That's the worst part of this show. All these "house" shows on HGTV are faked to some extent but Flip or Flop just doesn't need that crap. 

[Tonypitt]

I vote faked vandalism also. It was too clean as compared with their prior incident where I think the vandalism was legit. Boo! Don't do this kind of stuff again.

[roughing it]

Maybe the house was vandalized, but in order to film it, they had to recreate it???

[Tonypitt]

Maybe the house was vandalized, but in order to film it, they had to recreate it???

I wondered that as well.  They are taking a lot of heat for the episode on their Facebook page.  If they did that, they should have owned up to it.  There's one or two replies from whoever runs their Facebook page that is vague but definitely doesn't acknowledge the fakery (or reconstruction).  Let's hope this wasn't a jump the shark episode.

[iMonrey]

 

Maybe the house was vandalized, but in order to film it, they had to recreate it???

 

That doesn't make any sense. They filmed the first walk-through while the house was still pristine. If it were actually vandalized, why would they clean it up and then re-vandalize just for show? Why wouldn't they show the actual vandalism? Even if a lot of the graffiti couldn't be shown on TV they could blur it out.

[captain1]

My DVR cut off the end of the fake vandalism episode - how much money did they end up making on it?

[NYGirl]

I'm finally catching up on this season.  What's with all the "partnering"?    Now I'm watching the Craftsman with their friend Jesse.  As mentioned above I'm sure Tarek knew he had to restore and not renovate.  But after awhile everything he does looks the same.

 

The guy Slade was really annoying tonight turning down everything.  They made a big deal about the indoor laundry room and then it was never even mentioned again.  I wonder where it went.

Edited June 3, 2015 by NYGirl

[txvoodoo]

It went nowhere -- they didn't spend the $4,500 for indoor laundry.

[txvoodoo]

Tarek & Christina have 2 new shows coming up. (from: http://www.scrippsnetworksinteractive.com/newsroom/company-news/Pages/HGTV-Adds-New-Series,-Original-Programming-to-2015-Slate.aspx )

 

Flip or Flop Follow-Up
Series premiere: June TBD
From the most successful flips to the biggest flops, find out what happened to the houses that remained unsold on Flip or Flop.  In Flip or Flop Follow-Up, cameras reveal what happens behind-the-scenes of Tarek and Christina El Moussa’s most interesting house flipping experiences.

 

Also: "Flip or Flop at Home, which will highlight renovations and preparations for the birth of Tarek and Christina’s baby."

(No mention of date on that.)

[iMonrey]

So laundry moved to the garage? Or is gone altogether? I didn't get what happened there either.

 

And I didn't care for Slade. Frankly he didn't seem too bright. And I think he's a more typical representation of what Flippers do anyway - they use the cheapest materials and spend as little money as possible. I've no idea why Tarek and Christina would even want to partner with him.

 

I have a friend who's a contractor and I asked him about flipping houses. He said most people don't want to buy houses that have been flipped because they know the remodel is usually done on the cheap and maybe not even up to code. He does some pretty high-end remodeling jobs and feels it would tarnish his name to do flips, so the practice itself and those who do it do not have good reputations.

 

Tarek and Christina are lucky in that they are flipping in a highly expensive and sought-after area around L.A. They can do higher end remodels and reap big profits there, and might not have the same luck in a less expensive area (say, anywhere in the midwest). Still, I sometimes wonder if they don't cut a few corners here and there themselves.

[Broderbits]

Slade reminded me of the old Property Ladder show on TLC; 90% of those flips were cringe-worthy and yet most of the houses still sold. Maybe people are more savvy now, having watched these shows. I like that Tarek & Christina are not afraid to spend money where it counts, and they really know their market.

 

Pet peeve: why does C. constantly go for the quartz countertop with the sparkles? I love quartz but that stuff just looks like the old formica kitchen table we had in 1965.

[auntjess]

 

My DVR cut off the end of the fake vandalism episode - how much money did they end up making on it?

Mine too, and I didn't record whatever followed, so I couldn't pick it up that way.

[WildPlum]

The recent episode with the other flipper? First one of these shows I have turned off mid-show. Absolutely uninterested in listening to Tarek and another flipper argue about costs.

[Patrizio]

I didn't like the flipper T&C partnered with, he seemed kind of whiny. I wasn't in love with this flip either. I don't like those laminate floors at all. All the manufactured drama with that Slade guy cut into the design parts and reveals. They still have one of the cutest kids on TV though.

[ByaNose]

Yeah, I don't need some unknown flipper with T & R. The guy was too whiny & I couldn't imagine him hosting a show on his own. The house was okay but I didn't care for the flooring. I wish the show was an hour long. It seems so rushed in the 1/2 hour.

[mojito]

If the show were longer, they'd probably just fill it with more fake drama.

 

I didn't get going high end on the counter tops and then using laminate flooring. Are people okay with this flooring nowadays? I thought it was all the rage to get real hardwood floors. 

 

I love how Christina doesn't consider granite counter tops "modern". I wonder when stainless steel will no longer be "modern".

 

Couldn't believe how this Slade guy was going to cheap out on the finishes. I'd like to know how that would have turned out.

[iMonrey]

In some houses it's impossible to use real hard wood. Either because of the layout or the foundation. My sister has a high-end McMansion with expensive Italian marble in the dining room and she had to use laminate in the living room and front hall because of the way one sloped into the other, or something. Also, you can get really high-end laminate that's just as expensive as, if not more than, real wood. 

 

What I didn't get was their logic that it would be a good idea to partner with someone because they had 15 flips going on and were so busy this would somehow give them extra time to spend on other things. Huh? In the first place this guy clearly didn't know what he was doing and in the second place if you've already got 15 flips going on even partnering with someone else is going to be additional work. 

 

I think they're really kind of reaching for different things to do on the show.

[txvoodoo]

Finally! A flop!

[chessiegal]

They put out a teaser on FB yesterday saying remember to watch our new show tonight, will you see a flip or a flop? Glad I recorded it.

[WildPlum]

Yes, their first (on TV, anyway) flop. The funny thing is that the show drama makes it look like Tarek only wanted the house because it looked like someone else was putting in an offer on it. You'd THINK he'd have more sense, also that he'd be a bit more familiar with zoning and code in his preferred cities (granted there are 30+ individual cities in Orange County where they prefer to flip and 100 or so in LA county).

[ByaNose]

I couldn't believe it was only a 3 bedroom & 1 bathroom (I think). It's amazing how much they tried to sell it for and how much they got (lost). I certainly couldn't afford to live in California. My house is only in the high $100,000 (Philadelphia) and, I'd probably have to live in shack in California. That said, I thought the kitchen and bathroom turned out nice. Too much white for me but it was nicely done.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

I think it was actually a 2-bedroom. 

 

I'm not a fan of Tarek, but I did like how he was firm on standing up to Christina in the tile showroom, telling her that he was not going to give in on using real marble.  Usually he does give in to her.

 

I think we've discussed the use of irrigation systems and sod before here, but honestly, with California's water issues, people should just give up on the traditional green grass lawn.  It just isn't going to be possible, and there are low-water alternatives.

 

I like how Christina 'helps', by picking up one item at a time (usually) to throw it out.  That would totally be me since everything is so disgusting.  But really, just take a big trash can, and push everything into it while wearing heavy-duty gloves.

[iMonrey]

It looks like they finally got the message that a show called Flip or Flop needs to show a Flop once in awhile. This is their fourth season and the first time they've ever shown a project where they lost money. And given the circumstances, they didn't even lose that much. A $3,300 loss will easily be absorbed by by their next $50k profit. And they still managed to get $400K minus closing costs for a 2-bedroom, one-bathroom house with a tiny kitchen. Holy crap housing is expensive in SoCal.

 

I can buy that they believed they'd be able to build a rental property on the lot since the neighborhood consisted of lots of other multi-family dwellings. So that part was probably true. I'm not sure I buy they didn't know they'd have to spend 30K fixing the foundation, especially after they saw all those cracks in the wall. That's a pretty basic thing you figure out before you buy a property. I think they just figured they could easily afford the repair with the profit they expected to make.

 

It's really too bad they didn't get to build a second structure because it would have been interesting to see them build a house from scratch. They've never done that before. Although it might be intruding a bit too much on Scott McGillivray territory.

 

I really hate that off-white wood flooring they keep picking lately. Maybe it's really trendy right now in California but I think it looks awful. I don't mind the lighter wood colors, and I've seen some I really like, but the off-whites and grays in wood flooring look terrible to me.

 

 

[Patrizio]

I really don't like that light colored laminate at all, but it must be the thing right now because this is the second show it's been featured. I enjoy the show for the little things, like how the stagers used a mattress on a couple of cots for a bed. I think that they do a great job on the bathrooms, the tile, flooring choices always look wonderful. I would like to see an alternative to the sod lawns though. It must be so expensive, (not to mention prohibitive); to water those lawns. I am curious about the timeline of these episodes. Christina always looks flawless, but there was awhile there that Tarek didn't look so hot, and now he looks great. Who knows. Anyway, I think an hour would be too long, but I would like more shows. They're a likable pair, and it is refreshing to watch a couple who appear to be true partners in the business.

[Tonypitt]

I was glad to see a flop episode!  I think this show has done the audience a disservice by not showing more of these.  I get that they start filming well before the final transaction, so maybe it really is just the luck of the "draw."

 

One thing that I think is interesting is that they often talk about the amount paid for closing costs.  Given that they are both realtors, I'd assume that they are really only paying a buyer's agent commission.  So, even in close situations like this recent "flop," I bet they still broke even overall.

[WildPlum]

I always wonder, when they quote the cost of this or that, if they are quoting "retail" or what they actually paid. I suspect they are quoting what it would have cost if Joe Average went down to get the cabinets or tile or counter top. If they indeed quote what something would cost, rather than what the paid, they didn't lose money on it.

[mojito]

 

I like how Christina 'helps', by picking up one item at a time (usually) to throw it out.

I noticed this, too. She was as helpful as a four-year old. 

 

It was nice to see a semi-flop. I wonder if inventory is down so much that Tarek and Christina have to resort to gambles like this home. I, too, was startled by all the grass placed on that lawn. It's as though CA is still in denial (regardless of when this show was film, CA has been in bad shape for a while).

[auntjess]

I wondered what the cost would have been to add an additional bathroom, and maybe another bedroom.
Would hardscape, like we see in Las Vegas shows, work in California, or would it wash out in the rain?

[Portia]

At least Christina looks great while "cleaning" and "doing demo." We recently had some tree and house damage due to a storm, and when i was picking up debris in the yard in an old t-shirt and sneakers, covered in dirt and sweating profusely, I actually had the thought, "Christina makes this look so glamorous."

[iMonrey]

 

I wonder if inventory is down so much that Tarek and Christina have to resort to gambles like this home.

 

I doubt inventory is low if they have 15 flips all going on at the same time. I just think they figured it was a no-brainer they'd be able to add a rental unit to the existing property since it's smack dab in the middle of multi-family housing.

 

I wondered why the city would only allow the addition of a rental unit to occupied owners, but after I thought about it, it did kind of make sense. It would discourage developers from over-building the area - someone could buy up the apartment complex, kick everyone out, raze the building then build something way more expensive. 

[BBDi]

I wondered what the cost would have been to add an additional bathroom, and maybe another bedroom.

Would hardscape, like we see in Las Vegas shows, work in California, or would it wash out in the rain?

Yeah...once they found out they couldn't build the extra unit I wondered why they didn't seem to consider adding a bedroom and bathroom. If they were willing to go to the bother of building an entire second structure, and knowing that there is plenty of room on the lot, it seems like the obvious way to get a higher value.

 

I'm guessing we didn't hear the whole story, per usual. I didn't love what they did to the house, either. 

[Artsda]

That was the first flop I ever saw. Originally that house was so disgusting. 

[meep.meep]

There was at least one other flop.  Of course, they didn't actually come out and call it a flop.  It was the house with the chickens.  They dumped more than $100K into it, and at the end, it had been on the market for at least a month with no offers.