S06.E05: The Door

[kittykat]

Damn if the WW were unstoppable before...

[Cosmosgravitation]

6 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I hope Summer is not now a walker.

If they could raise animals it seems like we would have seen some in their undead hordes.  Those mammoths the giants had would be useful, or even the giants themselves.  

Edit: Wait, I think they've done horses.  So maybe they just prefer humans.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Cosmosgravitation

[areca]

Quote

I wonder if the origin of Hodor was the showrunners' idea or Martin's. 

Martin's.  They discuss when he told them in the post-episode show.

[Conan Troutman]

23 minutes ago, Potanical Pardon said:

I think the implication of how time(-travel) works is what happened, happened.

Young Hodor is the proof. He was always going to have present-day Bran warg-trip in the past and cause him brain damage. Ned dying happened the way it happened. Any time we will have Bran affect the past, it'll be his present but have already happened as history.

So there shouldn't be any altering of events that we've seen, just moments where we see the present-day Bran play a part in what we know/knew about the past.

I hope that's it, because otherwise it would be pretty confusing and might sink the show/books into a giant logic wormhole. Maybe Bran won't be able to influence stuff in the, um, future, because he won't have access to the really powerful weirwood tree any more and the lesser ones are only good for visions. Or he chooses not to do anything, as he learned how dangerous it can be. 

18 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

I actually suspect that LF was trying to remind Sansa of Jon's bastard status and that the North might not rally around a "Snow." There is no way in the world LF was trying to make her doubt Jon's loyalty to her - even he isn't that stupid. But if he doesn't know about Rickon (and for once she was very careful in what she did tell him), he is still operating under the idea that SHE is heir to Winterfell. He probably wants to remind her of THAT as well (I still think he'd like to marry her someday).

I think Sansa didn't tell Jon about LF and the Vale because she really doesn't want his/their help. She'd take help from her uncle but she wants to embrace her inner wolf - not rely on the man she trusted and feels betrayed by. I really don't think it's anything more than that. Jon would probably reject his help if he knew the whole story anyway - or might just kill him.

I hope you're right and that's the explanation. I really don't need any major conflict or jealousy between Sansa and Jon. Turning down the army (though LF never mentioned it explicitly) might be a mistake, but maybe she was banking that LF would come to help them regardless (has she seen the trailer?). 

4 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Since we've never returned to the Tower of Joy, and it seems that Bran will never get to again, was that scene simply to tease the R+L=J believers?

The woman playing the red priestess seemed similar to Melisandre down to their accents.  Surely it's not a coincidence.  And this one had the self-control not to flash a boob.

No Tower of Joy is indeed a curios choice. I'm sure we'll get the full reveal eventually, but it may not be via Bran.

What do you mean, it's not a coincidence? They're probably both from Asshai and I wouldn't be surprised if she's even older than Mel - she's the highest ranked priestess for a reason. I wouldn't mind a bit less self-control as the actress is really stunning, but I don't think Dany would be especially receptive to that. 

 

Some other thoughts:

- I'm okay with Summer dying like that. I hated the other deaths of the direwolfs, but in this case Summer actually fulfilled his purpose and sacrificed himself to save Bran (and probably humankind along with him). Way better than getting slaughtered by some random asshole. 

- RIP Hodor!

- So the CotF created the WW. Not a big surprise, as that was one of the options I strongly considered, but nice to finally get some confirmation. Curios that they more or less dumped that info in the beginning of the fifth episode, but whatever. 

- Speaking of the CotF, are they extinct now? Or are there other children somewhere? 

- Sorry Yara, but Euron actually had a great point. Building a giant navy is fine, but actually putting it to good use in allying with Dany and conquering the seven kingdoms is the far better plan. Hopefully she jumps ahead off him and makes the alliance with Dany herself. Those aren't a ton of ships and won't get the entirety of her army over the Narrow Sea in one swoop, but you can use those things multiple times. 

- I think Arya will retrieve Needle in her next episode. 

[Paws]

So Meera running off with Bran and fighting the White Walkers was a little bit similar to Hardhome in the way it played out.

 

Spoiler

Makes me think that my favorite theory is true...she is Jon Snows twin.

I thought Sansa was sewing to enlarge her clothes bc of a bun in the oven. I do hope it really was just sewing for Jons cloaky thing.

 

I was loving going back to Winterfell with Bran. Now it's just sad sad sad.  Especially Ned's father saying most important thing is that you win.

[WearyTraveler]

39 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

So to be king of the iron islands you have to be drowned?  So some kind of magic brings them back, or are we to assume they are the walking dead?  What if they don't come back after drowning?  Does that mean they weren't a true king?  I wouldn't be signing up for that position.

"What is dead may never die".  I think of the Ironborn as the Medieval version of Flatliners (remember that movie with Kieffer Sutherland and Julia Roberts?).  I don't think they die per se.  It's like when people are drowning and taken to shore and then they cough and breathe again. I think the strong ones, survive.  But the Ironborn think that the Drowned God brought them back to life.

37 minutes ago, Mya Stone said:

I honestly don't think he can change anything in the past. All I think about is Daniel Faraday's mantra in LOST of "Whatever happened, happened." Wylis was always going to be Hodorized, and die for Bran, which is horrible, and present day Bran was always going to be the one to make it happen. Make sense? 

 

Bran can't affect events that have already happened, such as Ned being beheaded, or the Red Wedding, because those things have already happened. Gah, I'm confusing myself but in my head it makes sense. It's like Eloise Hawking not being able to stop herself from killing her son. If you get that reference props. 

Props for making the reference, in the first place!

2 minutes ago, SoWindsor said:

Why didn't LF offer the Vale army? Did I miss something?

He did offer the Vale army.  He told her that they were passing through the Neck as they were speaking and that if she wanted they would be hers

--------------------

Oh, and Summer is (was! Sniff!!) a male direwolf.  Each child got a direwolf of the same gender as him/her

[ulkis]

14 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

It's one of the times I don't mind the show being ahead of the books. I'm sure it would have been sad reading about how Wyllis became Hodor but actually seeing it was brutal. D&D saying they were shocked when GRMM told them what "Hodor" meant I would have been too. I'm of the "it's brilliant" opinion. Messed up and sad but brilliant.

Ah, so it was Martin's idea. I was like, that's too good, it was probably Martin. That's not an insult to the showrunners so much as a testament to how creative I think Martin is.

[screamin]

13 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

I have mixed feelings about this. An army is an army but if Sansa is seriously trying to purge uncle Petah from her life, why would she let Jon know that there's an army in North that could come to their aid when said army comes with Littlefinger at the head?   

True. I would like to believe Sansa withheld the information because she believed she would be browbeaten into accepting LF's help to secure victory, and was afraid LF would end up screwing them all over eventually. What I'm hoping, anyway...

[MarySNJ]

32 minutes ago, screamin said:

This is incontrovertible. But it is also undeniable that Bran could not have been thrown off a tower by Jaime had he not climbed a freakin' forbidden tower to be thrown off of it in the first place. Yes, the adults who ordered him not to climb the tower were afraid of loose, slippery rocks causing a fall, not an incestuous Lannister. But the fact remains that Bran mulishly ignored a warning not to do something dangerous.

This is pretty much the same. Bran was warned it was dangerous. True, he was only warned it was dangerous for him - that he might drown in his flashbacks. But I don't think the plea that he thought he was only risking himself exonerates him of assholery. He's important, Little Bro Prophet sacrificed his life to get his ungrateful ass to Bloodraven, it's selfish of Bran to risk getting himself killed, wasting all that sacrifice and effort, just because he's easily bored. Not to mention that a person who insists on swimming in dangerous waters really SHOULD be held somewhat responsible for whatever happens to lifeguards who have to follow him in to rescue him. Fuck him, I say.

I thought the Three Eyed Raven (is he Bloodraven on the show?) said that he saw Bran when he was born, as well as Ned and presumably other ancestors (hey Rickard Stark! Nice to see you). If Bloodraven knew that Bran was coming to take his place, then he obviously saw the future. I'm guessing that everything that happened to Bran was fated by some force or the old gods or whatever, for some reason we don't know yet. Bran will have live with the guilt that his possession of Wyllis caused Hodor's condition, and his death at the Door. 

[KaleyFirefly]

Was Bran still warging in Hodor while he was holding the door? Or that was just Hodor sacrificing himself? It was just too sad. Why couldn't Summer have left with them? They are going to need a lot of help with a zombie army after them. Poor Meera. First her brother, now this.

I want Arya to leave the Faceless Men, but not before she's gotten her training. I think she is still, and always will be, Arya Stark rather than "no one" and I think Jaquen knows it too.

I bet the purpose of Jorah having greyscale is so that he will be able to go into Old Valyria and snag a supply of Valyrian steel to fight the White Walkers.

What was the deal with all that stuff Red Priestess was saying to Varys? I wasn't sure what was this "voice in the flames" she was talking about, but Varys seemed really shaken by it.

[Pogojoco]

No more Hodoring! Kristian Nairn was great in the role. He will be missed. 

[kittykat]

4 minutes ago, Conan Troutman said:

Sorry Yara, but Euron actually had a great point. Building a giant navy is fine, but actually putting it to good use in allying with Dany and conquering the seven kingdoms is the far better plan. Hopefully she jumps ahead off him and makes the alliance with Dany herself. Those aren't a ton of ships and won't get the entirety of her army over the Narrow Sea in one swoop, but you can use those things multiple times. 

- I think Arya will retrieve Needle in her next episode. 

Good points.  And I actually like Show Euron over Book but I also don't want him to win.  I'm hoping Yara and Theon make it to Mereen or provide Sansa with an army.

And as for Needle, I agree.

[that one guy]

15 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I hope Summer is not now a walker.

Not to mention Zombie Hodor.

[MarySNJ]

A while back, there was a fan theory over on Westeros.org that the COTF created the White Walker. I didn't like the theory, but it seems whoever figured it out was good at picking up on clues in the text. 

I guess if beta-White Walker was pissed about having a giant chunk of dragon glass shoved into his chest, he might hold a grudge against the COTF and not just the other living men. 

[mac123x]

1 minute ago, KaleyFirefly said:

What was the deal with all that stuff Red Priestess was saying to Varys? I wasn't sure what was this "voice in the flames" she was talking about, but Varys seemed really shaken by it.

Varys had an excellent scene back in season 3 where he gave Tyrion the details of how he was castrated.  Basically a sorcerer burned his privates in front of him, and he heard a voice coming from the flames.  He told Tyrion that the voice was the part of that experience that haunted him the most, and it's why he hates magic and everyone who uses it.

[WearyTraveler]

3 minutes ago, KaleyFirefly said:

What was the deal with all that stuff Red Priestess was saying to Varys? I wasn't sure what was this "voice in the flames" she was talking about, but Varys seemed really shaken by it.

That was almost verbatim from ACoK, except that in the book, it's Varys telling Tyrion the story of how he was cut: he was sold to a red priest who cut him, threw his genitals in the fire, prayed some (IIRC), and then threw Varys out.

[VCRTracking]

Pretty annoyed at Bran right now. If I was him I'd be feeling sooooooooooo guilty. I'll cut him some slack though. Plenty of blame to around. If Littlefinger hadn't killed Jon Arryn, if Jaime hadn't pushed him off a tower, if Catelyn hadn't left Winterfell, if Theon hadn't betrayed the Starks and captured Winterfell, if Jojen Reed hadn't talked Bran out of calling out to Jon, if the Three Eyed Raven hadn't taken him back to when Wyllis was young(he had to have known what was going to happen). In the end Hodor no choice in his life and was destined die protecting Bran. That's the most tragic thing.

[ulkis]

39 minutes ago, benteen said:

The one issue I thought that Jon might face is not being a bastard but he might be viewed as a Night's Watch deserter.

They're going to Riverrun, right? Maybe beyond the North they aren't as strict as the North when it comes to punishing deserters. Doesn't the rest of Westeros not take the wall very seriously?

[Pogojoco]

Just now, mac123x said:

Varys had an excellent scene back in season 3 where he gave Tyrion the details of how he was castrated.  Basically a sorcerer burned his privates in front of him, and he heard a voice coming from the flames.  He told Tyrion that the voice was the part of that experience that haunted him the most, and it's why he hates magic and everyone who uses it.

Yeah, I basically took that as a great mystery in Varys' life and this priestess  1. knew about it 2. knew what it said, so it threw him. 

[MarySNJ]

36 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

No he didn't. He probably didn't even know that Sansa was married so he had no reason to make Jon his heir.

Also, Talisa was pregnant with an heir on the show. Jayne was apparently* not pregnant in the book. 

* Depends on who you ask. 

[nodorothyparker]

I seriously felt like the show had broken my brain on the first viewing and it was just as brutal on repeat.  So Bran was responsible for breaking Hodor/Willis in the first place and his disregarding orders not to go weirwood surfing alone and warging into him eventually got him killed.  I honestly never knew I cared that much about the character until now and now I'm kind of wrecked about it.  

I'm wanting to reserve judgment on Sansa lying to Jon five minutes after they finally got the band back together but it doesn't fill me with optimism.  She was awfully quick to reject the offer of troops she knows they're going to need.  I get that she doesn't trust Littlefinger and her call out of him was a thing of beauty, but under the circumstances it would certainly be something worth investigating. Jon's war council of Sansa, Edd, a wildling leader, two Southroners, and a foreign priestess amused me because nearly everyone there was clearly out of their depths.  When Sansa was going on about how Northerners are different because they're loyal, Davos was at least trying to be kind in pointing out that quite of a few of those same Northerners have so far just accepted the Boltons taking over.   Also loved Brienne basically calling Jon a broody emo and noting that Davos and Mel have been serving Jon for all of about five minutes now after everything they did in service to Stannis.  I'm just thrilled she's finally on her way to the Riverlands.

Still don't care about Arya in Braavos but I can admit that the play with their take on the fight for the Iron Throne was pretty funny right up until it wasn't.

The Iron Islands scenes with lots of shouty threats to kill family members, bitching about how the rest of the Seven Kingdoms don't like you, the prerequisite baptism by drowning, stealing a fleet to avoid being murdered with no seeming destination, and bombastic promises to sail halfway around the world on ships you no longer have to take a queen who doesn't know you exist pretty much sum up the entire Ironborn experience.

Edited May 23, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[Conan Troutman]

11 minutes ago, Cosmosgravitation said:

If they could raise animals it seems like we would have seen some in their undead hordes.  Those mammoths the giants had would be useful, or even the giants themselves.  

Edit: Wait, I think they've done horses.  So maybe they just prefer humans.

We may get that in the books, but the show might leave it out for budget reasons. The can use real horses and just CGI the undeadness on them, but more exotic animals (not to mention fictional or extinct ones) are far harder to do. 

8 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

"What is dead may never die".  I think of the Ironborn as the Medieval version of Flatliners (remember that movie with Kieffer Sutherland and Julia Roberts?).  I don't think they die per se.  It's like when people are drowning and taken to shore and then they cough and breathe again. I think the strong ones, survive.  But the Ironborn think that the Drowned God brought them back to life.

I thought "Wouldn't it be funny if he just died totally anticlimactically?". 

5 minutes ago, KaleyFirefly said:

I bet the purpose of Jorah having greyscale is so that he will be able to go into Old Valyria and snag a supply of Valyrian steel to fight the White Walkers.

What was the deal with all that stuff Red Priestess was saying to Varys? I wasn't sure what was this "voice in the flames" she was talking about, but Varys seemed really shaken by it.

Yeah, I think Jorah will get to do one last thing and I bet it will have something to do with Old Valyria. But I'm not sure it's just some Valyrian steel. Maybe one of the Targaryen swords, but there has to be something else there. No idea what, though. Or maybe that was it for Jorah and we simply never see him again.

The voice in the flames refers to the sorcerer (remember the sorcerer from season two or three that Varys got delivered in a box?) cutting his dick off and burning it. Then he saw a flame and heard a voice. The priestess seems to infer that it was R'hllor himself who was speaking to him (how else would she know it?). 

[Fishslap]

1 hour ago, dizzyd said:

 a waste of time as has been everything Arya for a long time now. 
 

I don't know about this. It depends on how she leaves her training. Obviously she will have grown from all this even if she isn't nobody, and maybe she manages to steal a few faces and run off or something. Or maybe she just becomes something more than her trainers. It's been fairly obvious for a while that at least one of the people she wants dead will be spared so she can kill them. Might be Cercei, but for now my money is on Lord Frey.

[Lemuria]

25 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

An army is an army but if Sansa is seriously trying to purge uncle Petah from her life, why would she let Jon know that there's an army in North that could come to their aid when said army comes with Littlefinger at the head?   

Because, for me and at the moment, the bigger threat and problem is Ramsey Bolton.  Take care of that first, and then the lesser threat.  She doesn't have to ever trust LF again, or even to turn her back on him, and she can prepare for the betrayal she knows is coming, but you don't throw away an army that is genuinely needed.  At that moment, Sansa let her personal feelings about LF carry more weight in her decision-making than the importance of taking back Winterfell.  Or of keeping the trust of your co-commander:  Jon might not be happy at not being told that there was another army that had been offered to them but Sansa had refused it without discussing it with him.

[Oscirus]

Quote

Jon's war council of Sansa, Edd, a wildling leader, two Southroners, and a foreign priestess amused me because nearly everyone there was clearly out of their depths.

Jon needs to send a raven to mereen and borrow Tyrion with the quickness. Hell, borrow Jorah or Dario at this point. Just don't let Jorah touch you :x

[KaleyFirefly]

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

Why was Meera able to kill that WW with a stick?  Why didn't she save that stick to kill more?

Summer's death was unnecessary, and felt like a FU to the fans.  Now who's going to save Bran now that his two protectors are dead?

So to be king of the iron islands you have to be drowned?  So some kind of magic brings them back, or are we to assume they are the walking dead?  What if they don't come back after drowning?  Does that mean they weren't a true king?  I wouldn't be signing up for that position.

I think the spear that Meera threw had a tip made of obsidian (dragonglass). Isn't that one of the weapons of the Children of the Forest?

I agree about Summer. FU, D&D. Seriously.

Not sure if Euron was really dead and brought back by magic or if he wasn't quite dead yet. 

[WatchrTina]

People are focusing on Hodor's tragic tale and the White Walkers' origin story and rightly so.  But can I just say that the close-up of the actor dude's warty willy and the actress standing around topless backstage in front of the whole company was just gratuitous nudity.  I wonder if someone told the show-runners, "Hey!  They showed a penis on Outlander.  Twice!  You guys need to catch up."

[Gertrude]

11 minutes ago, ulkis said:

They're going to Riverrun, right? Maybe beyond the North they aren't as strict as the North when it comes to punishing deserters. Doesn't the rest of Westeros not take the wall very seriously?

I believe only Brienne is going to Riverrun. The rest are going to gather the other Northern houses. I'm curious as to how Jon will explain his desertion as well, tbh. The show will probably not address it is my guess.

[Fishslap]

Just now, WatchrTina said:

People are focusing on Hodor's tragic tale and the White Walkers' origin story and rightly so.  But can I just say that the close-up of the actor dude's warty willy and the actress standing around topless backstage in front of the whole company was just gratuitous nudity.  I wonder if someone told the show-runners, "Hey!  They showed a penis on Outlander.  Twice!  You guys need to catch up."

Penises are very underrated.

[anamika]

Man the last however minutes were some of the best this show has ever done. Gripping and sad. Good stuff.

Arya's scenes were also decent this week. The play made things interesting.

As for the wall scenes, I think we are seeing the beginning of Dark Sansa. I have always suspected that if we get Stark Vs Stark, it will be Sansa going against the rest. The effects of  that LF planting the seed of mistrust and asking her to get an army that is loyal only to her is seen by Sansa lying to Jon. No other reason for her. Jon has been shown to be pragmatic : He can work with enemies and use their armies. He is also not a fool. If Brienne and Sansa tell him that LF is shady, then Jon would believe them. Sansa is also not trying to protect LF, because Jon is not some idiot barbarian who is going to run off and kill LF.  Her keeping it from Jon, means that she is keeping that info in her backpocket in case things with Jon does not go the way she wants. Her saying that Jon is not a Stark but she is, could also be a hint here to her line of thinking.

I am guessing that after they retake Winterfell (With LF bringing in the Vale army) we are going to see a divide between Sansa/LF and Jon.

Edited May 23, 2016 by anamika

[MarySNJ]

Just now, Lemuria said:

Because, for me and at the moment, the bigger threat and problem is Ramsey Bolton.  Take care of that first, and then the lesser threat.  She doesn't have to ever trust LF again, or even to turn her back on him, and she can prepare for the betrayal she knows is coming, but you don't throw away an army that is genuinely needed.  At that moment, Sansa let her personal feelings about LF carry more weight in her decision-making than the importance of taking back Winterfell.  Or of keeping the trust of your co-commander:  Jon might not be happy at not being told that there was another army that had been offered to them but Sansa had refused it without discussing it with him.

You're right. It makes sense, but given the trauma that Sansa has suffered, maybe her feelings about Petyr's "gifts" are not exactly rational at the moment. It's still too raw for her, as she said quite bluntly. 

I just watched the "inside the episode" and D&D talk about how Sansa has learned enough from Petyr to realize that maybe him being alive will be better for her than if he's dead. Thinking long term about that, if the not the army. Also, maybe she was afraid that Petyr will figure out a way to cause a rift between her and Jon and/or finding a way to get Jon out of the way. He certainly was trying with that "half-brother" stuff. Maybe she's trying to protect Jon. 

[WatchrTina]

Quote

The Iron Islands scenes with lots of shouty threats to kill family members, bitching about how the rest of the Seven Kingdoms don't like you, the prerequisite baptism by drowning, stealing a fleet to avoid being murdered with no seeming destination, and bombastic promises to sail halfway around the world on ships you no longer have to take a queen who doesn't know you exist pretty much sum up the entire Ironborn experience.

What is dead may be astoundingly stupid.

Edited May 23, 2016 by WatchrTina

[Skeeter22]

It would be pretty silly for Sansa to agree to accept Littlefinger's troops if she can't trust him. If Jon were to take Winterfell with the majority of his troops being from the Vale, what's to stop Littlefinger from immediately turning on him and taking Winterfell for himself?

 

I thought it was weird for the show to set up the idea that Sansa didn't fully trust Jon, and then have her send away the only people who are loyal to her alone. 

[QuantumMechanic]

So if Bran ever ends up going through the gate in the Wall, will the Night's King's mark on him somehow screw up the presumed magic in the Wall that's holding back the Others?

Edited May 23, 2016 by QuantumMechanic

[WatchrTina]

Quote

So if Bran ever ends up going through the gate in the Wall, will the Night King's mark on him somehow screw up the presumed magic in the Wall that's holding back the Others?

Well . . . shit.

Edited May 23, 2016 by WatchrTina

[Conan Troutman]

6 minutes ago, Skeeter22 said:

It would be pretty silly for Sansa to agree to accept Littlefinger's troops if she can't trust him. If Jon were to take Winterfell with the majority of his troops being from the Vale, what's to stop Littlefinger from immediately turning on him and taking Winterfell for himself?

 

I thought it was weird for the show to set up the idea that Sansa didn't fully trust Jon, and then have her send away the only people who are loyal to her alone. 

Good point. I hope she kills him after the battle (in the trailer, we did see LF in the godswood with a character dressed in black approaching him) and is like "well, thanks for the help, but you're no longer useful now". LF would be proud of her. 

 

5 minutes ago, QuantumMechanic said:

So if Bran ever ends up going through the gate in the Wall, will the Night King's mark on him somehow screw up the presumed magic in the Wall that's holding back the Others?

Uh-oh. This week on Arrested Westeros: "I made a huge mistake"...

Edited May 23, 2016 by Conan Troutman

[VCRTracking]

I think Bran's guilt will make him accept being the new Three Eyed Raven and  stuck in a tree for thousands of years. He'd be like "I unintentionally ruined an innocent person's life, I deserve this."

[Paws]

I wonder if the actress Arya is supposed to kill will player Catelyn in the next episode. Then Arya will refuse to kill, realize she is Arya Stark always and get needle back.

 

also, I wonder if the original WW is the original Brandon stark/ Brandon the builder

Edited May 23, 2016 by Paws

[Goatherd]

Great episode, but can anyone explain the time-travel effects and retroactive Hodorization of Hodor? Warging into him in the present day caused him brain damage years ago? Hodor had his seizure at that moment in time...because Bran was visiting that moment of the past? (And why was Bran there, anyway? Just for some fun family memories time?)

Also, any reason why Three-Eyes didn't bring them back sooner? Was he unaware of the danger back in the cave?

[Conan Troutman]

So when exactly did Bran's visit to the WWs happen? Where they already outside the cave? Was it in the future? They got there pretty quickly after that. Either way, you'd think they would get the hell out of dodge after what happened. Instead, they were taking the time for another trip to the past. I can only assume 3ER knew how this would turn out and thought it would be necessary. 

[GrailKing]

22 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

People are focusing on Hodor's tragic tale and the White Walkers' origin story and rightly so.  But can I just say that the close-up of the actor dude's warty willy and the actress standing around topless backstage in front of the whole company was just gratuitous nudity.  I wonder if someone told the show-runners, "Hey!  They showed a penis on Outlander.  Twice!  You guys need to catch up."

Well GOT showed many, before OL; Alfie's was one of them.

I just think some folks refuse to see, hey they even gave KN a giant one, the HS walk of shame, the child molester in LF brothel etc.

Edited May 23, 2016 by GrailKing
word replacement

[Potanical Pardon]

20 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Jon needs to send a raven to mereen and borrow Tyrion with the quickness. Hell, borrow Jorah or Dario at this point. Just don't let Jorah touch you :x

Dany has Tyrion and Varys as voices of reason. I think Sam will be Jon's. They both have a red priestess. Dario and Greyworm cancel out Tormund and Davos. Hmmm. Sansa's just along for the ride...she's like Cersei in thinking they're hot shit and not stupid. Brienne seems to be off on her own adventure probably with Pod. 

I have no idea if Bran is headed for Jon or The Wall. If he's going to tied into Jon's origin, I guess it would have to be Jon and inform on the White Wakers. So then maybe Jon doesn't get Sam's counsel who would then return and not desert the Night's Watch and help prepare them with whatever he finds out at the Maester place. Thinking it through, that has to be what happens because there's only Edd at the Wall to care about and you just don't build a wall that massive in a story without it coming down dramatically.

So maybe you're right. Jon's going to still need someone besides Mel and Davos as kindof strategists. I guess one of those other laughably loyal Northerner families will produce a yet to be seen trustable advisor.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Potanical Pardon

[KaleyFirefly]

1 hour ago, MarySNJ said:

 I think the Three Eyed Crow must have foreseen the future and knew how it was going to happen. He didn't seem terribly surprised. 

I think this is true, and that's why in previous episodes he kept telling Bran "we don't have much time."

[Shimmergloom]

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

It's weird watching Jon taking a back seat to Sansa.

I think he still feels uneasy and doesn't think of himself as a Stark.  But he did have the right idea in going for the smaller houses first and work from there.  I mean it should be a given that the Glovers, Reeds and Mormonts would be on there side.

[ulkis]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

If Tormund and Brienne aren't OTP in the books, I don't even want the shitty things.  I'll live on B&T gifs and memes.

That reminds me - I didn't watch must last season - so is the Jamie/Brienne kinda-sorta friendship pretty much over? Did they mention each other at all?

[benteen]

Max von Sydow has been playing a lot of characters who get cut down lately.

The only thing I missed during the Kingsmoot was the dragon horn.  GRRM's description of that scene was epic...you could feel the end of the world description.  I wouldn't be surprised though if Euron still has them on the show.

I laughed reading the Entertainment Weekly recap writer joke that with his orders to start building more ships, Euron had initiated "the slowest chase scene ever."

[Black Knight]

40 minutes ago, Conan Troutman said:

- Sorry Yara, but Euron actually had a great point. Building a giant navy is fine, but actually putting it to good use in allying with Dany and conquering the seven kingdoms is the far better plan. Hopefully she jumps ahead off him and makes the alliance with Dany herself. Those aren't a ton of ships and won't get the entirety of her army over the Narrow Sea in one swoop, but you can use those things multiple times. 

One thing that struck me, that nobody has brought up yet, is that Euron did not blow the horn at the kingsmoot. Given what the horn does, that's a significant deviation from the books. Also Euron's plan as laid out in regards to Dany is a lot nicer than BookEuron's plan, talking reasonably enough about nice, pragmatic reasons why Dany would agree to marry him - again, because the horn is currently absent from the show, thus removing the rape-y vibe.

So my thinking is that Yara/Theon and Euron are all indeed going to go to Meereen. Yara/Theon probably get there first and Dany likes them, Euron arrives and Dany still sticks with Yara, and that's when the show does the big book moment of Euron blowing that horn. It would be more shocking for non-readers to have it occur at that point rather than at the kingsmoot. ShowEuron is coming off a lot nicer right now than BookEuron, and I doubt that will last...

My mind was blown by the revelation that the Children created the White Walkers. Clearly that got out of control. I'm not sure if I think the Night King is a White Walker who somehow managed to get autonomy and agency and then took over control of the mindless WWs, or if the Night King was never a WW but instead a human who somehow used magic to transform himself. One thing I do think very strongly is that the Night King has to have been a Stark before he became the NK.

[Conan Troutman]

2 minutes ago, KaleyFirefly said:

I think this is true, and that's why in previous episodes he kept telling Bran "we don't have much time."

But why didn't he prevent it? He could've told Bran what he saw. The past may be written, but does this apply to the future, too? Well, if you go forward in the time, the now-future would become the past. So maybe that's what he was talking about when he said "the ink is dry". Ugh, time travel is the last thing I needed on the show. Now my head hurts. 

[MarySNJ]

6 minutes ago, Paws said:

I wonder if the actress Arya is supposed to kill will player Catelyn in the next episode. Then Arya will refuse to kill, realize she is Arya Stark always and get needle back.

 

also, I wonder if the original WW is the original Brandon stark/ Brandon the builder

I think the actress she's supposed to kill is playing Cersei. Arya made a point of saying the younger actress was jealous, which i took to mean she's the one who wants to kill the older woman. 

And it would be very interesting if the man that the COTF killed was a Stark. Although, I don't think it could be Bran the Builder, because I think he built the Wall after they pushed back the WW, with the help of the Free Folk and the COTF (I could be misremembering). 

[Unknown poster]

30 minutes ago, Conan Troutman said:

We may get that in the books, but the show might leave it out for budget reasons. The can use real horses and just CGI the undeadness on them, but more exotic animals (not to mention fictional or extinct ones) are far harder to do. 

I thought "Wouldn't it be funny if he just died totally anticlimactically?". 

Yeah, I think Jorah will get to do one last thing and I bet it will have something to do with Old Valyria. But I'm not sure it's just some Valyrian steel. Maybe one of the Targaryen swords, but there has to be something else there. No idea what, though. Or maybe that was it for Jorah and we simply never see him again.

The voice in the flames refers to the sorcerer (remember the sorcerer from season two or three that Varys got delivered in a box?) cutting his dick off and burning it. Then he saw a flame and heard a voice. The priestess seems to infer that it was R'hllor himself who was speaking to him (how else would she know it?). 

I don't know about Jorah heading to Valaria. I don't think you look for a cure in the place where literally NOONE is cured. Besides, Dany's band has no idea what's going on at the Wall, or beyond it. I don't have any idea where he goes from here, but I can't believe it's the end for him. Maybe he heads to Quarth and seeks out Quaithe? She seemed to have a lot of information, and it would be in keeping with this years theme of "Hey! Remember this character from several seasons ago?" (Balon, Blackfish, etc.)