S02.E07: Shiva

[xaxat]

So the season ends with Bloody Nick rejecting his family and wandering off on his own. Travis goes walkabout with Chris and decides to leave Maddie behind. The fate of Daniel is unknown. Strand and the remaining survivors face an uncertain future as they attempt to head back to the yacht.

And I truly DNGAF about any of them and their accompanying drama.

Edited May 23, 2016 by xaxat

[BananaRama]

I am so disappointed in Nick.  I must not have been watching closely because I just didn't see him turning his back on his family coming.  He was my favorite character.

[Lii]

1 minute ago, BananaRama said:

I am so disappointed in Nick.  I must not have been watching closely because I just didn't see him turning his back on his family coming.  He was my favorite character.

True story. He came so far. And then the writers were like nope, can't have that, no likeable characters allowed on this hot mess, and off into the zombie sunset he goes.

To be fair though, he was really into playing basketball with the zombies in that other episode. They may not be very good at it, but they've got a lot of stamina. It's not like anyone else was paying him a lick of attention. Fly away with your new friends, Nick. At least they'll play with you. Maybe you can find a zombie hairdresser, seeing as the alive one you had on your actual boat was more interested in giving the girls highlights and a nice blowout every day than helping a brother out once in awhile.

[JackONeill]

32 minutes ago, Lii said:

True story. He came so far. And then the writers were like nope, can't have that, no likeable characters allowed on this hot mess, and off into the zombie sunset he goes.

To be fair though, he was really into playing basketball with the zombies in that other episode. They may not be very good at it, but they've got a lot of stamina. It's not like anyone else was paying him a lick of attention. Fly away with your new friends, Nick. At least they'll play with you. Maybe you can find a zombie hairdresser, seeing as the alive one you had on your actual boat was more interested in giving the girls highlights and a nice blowout every day than helping a brother out once in awhile.

You know, the thing about Nick, even though being a druggie he has seen some shit, and yes he's seen some walkers chowing down, what he hasn't seen is a loved one -- his sister, his mother -- being torn apart piece of flesh by piece of flesh. And the screams.

but you know what, if he DOES see something like that and he continues to be que sera sera, then the boy doesn't deserve to live. Period.

[SoSueMe]

24 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

You know, the thing about Nick, even though being a druggie he has seen some shit, and yes he's seen some walkers chowing down, what he hasn't seen is a loved one -- his sister, his mother -- being torn apart piece of flesh by piece of flesh. And the screams.

but you know what, if he DOES see something like that and he continues to be que sera sera, then the boy doesn't deserve to live. Period.

In the pilot I thought he saw his girlfriend had turned?

[morgankobi]

Where the hell did Nick get Luis from? He died when they were still on the water. Are you telling me that, knowing that dead people turn, they not only didn't administer a head wound, but also rode with the body to shore and then drug it to land? Or left a freshly dead body on the boat for shits and giggles?

I was unclear for most of the episode about when the others knew Celia was keeping zombie pets. Did they not think the conversation between her and Strand was odd? Did no one feel like mentioning what they had seen zombies do? We're they really fine staying there knowing what was in the basement? Did Daniel really not warn them that Celia flat-out murders people?

I was hoping Nick was just trying to placate Celia without actually succumbing to her views. I don't see how anyone who has been out in the world and seen zombies literally eat people (including seeing people he knew turned-druggie girlfriend and drug dealer friend), could ever buy this line of BS. No matter how lost they are. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by morgankobi

[Lii]

9 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

You know, the thing about Nick, even though being a druggie he has seen some shit, and yes he's seen some walkers chowing down, what he hasn't seen is a loved one -- his sister, his mother -- being torn apart piece of flesh by piece of flesh. And the screams.

but you know what, if he DOES see something like that and he continues to be que sera sera, then the boy doesn't deserve to live. Period.

He DID see it in the first episode, with his zombie heroin girlfriend Gloria. To be fair, we don't know how close they were other than their mutual love of heroin, and it was the beginning of the zombie apocalypse, and if Alicia has completely forgotten her non-heroin boyfriend by now, Nick's probably allowed to forget his junkie girlfriend. Speaking from a position of someone with a somewhat similar past, the connections you forge when you're in that place, no matter how deep you think they are, are no deeper than the stupid conversations you have when you're fucked up, and by that I mean they're shallow as shit and completely meaningless once you sober up for a week or two. He was probably more traumatized by killing his dealer than anything that happened in that church, especially since he was much more sober at the time.

However, we DID see him have a flashback to Gloria nomming on some dead guy an episode or two back (remember when he was into wearing women's clothing instead of old man clothes? Good times.) when he was chillin at the voodoo prayer tree with Ofelia, and that could easily be part of why he wants so badly to buy into this "they aren't dead, they're just resting" crap. It's the first time we've seen him really even begin to process any of what happened in LA. He was the first one of all of these fools to see a zombie, the first one to lose someone to a zombie, and NO ONE BELIEVED HIM. No one pays attention to him, except when Madison bitches at him to stay in the kitchen, Carl, and none of them take him seriously except maybe Strand, who is having his own personal breakdown. Even Strand never told him a goddamn thing other than "You're super special but I won't tell you why, I'll just be really vague about it for no good reason other than ART, THIS SHOW IS ART" which didn't help at all. Now we've got Madison once again telling Nick he isn't competent to make his own decisions and just needs to do what she says and get in the car RIGHT NOW without even answering his very reasonable and simple question, despite the fact that he's been doing a ton of crap for her and just got back from searching for her husband and stepson FOR HER yet having her not take him seriously. Again. Honestly, if you look at it altogether, it makes a lot of sense.

Travis, however, seemed to actually look Nick in the eyes in this episode, and treat him like a grown man. Honestly, I would not be surprised if Nick was planning on heading back to Travis and Chris. When Travis treated Nick with respect, Nick treated Travis with respect, and even respected his decision to leave HIS OWN REAL MOTHER, and kept his secret.  If it turns out that Daniel is still alive, I'd love to see Nick pick him up and head back to Travis & Chris. The four of them would be competent enough to survive for awhile, and Daniel and Chris would serve as perfect foils for each others' current mental breakdowns, with bland Travis and weird headspace Nick as mediators. I could see the four of them really playing well off of each other, and the characters all helping each other grow in the ways they need to grow to survive, with Daniel likely sacrificing himself to get the others back to the harem group at the end of the season.

Or it could just continue to be poorly-written stupid nonsense. New showrunners will be the key, IMO. This show needs to stop trying to be an apocalyptic art film and just be a zombie show.

[JackONeill]

It seems that Travis (despite how I feel about him) has always had a way to communicate with Nick. And I've seen Nick talking with Chris (not talking to, but with). I've seen Daniel talking with Chris, and I think he knows there's more to Nick. I can see the four of them banding together.

i wonder if Nick will double back to the hacienda and finding Daniel barely alive. And we know Travis and Chris will be relatively close by.

[SoSueMe]

4 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

It seems that Travis (despite how I feel about him) has always had a way to communicate with Nick. And I've seen Nick talking with Chris (not talking to, but with). I've seen Daniel talking with Chris, and I think he knows there's more to Nick. I can see the four of them banding together.

i wonder if Nick will double back to the hacienda and finding Daniel barely alive. And we know Travis and Chris will be relatively close by.

Daniel may not be with us anymore. On Talking Dead he didn't show up on the In Memoriam, but I thought I caught someone, maybe Hardwick,  reference him as dead and Gale Anne Hurd didn't correct him. Hope I'm wrong.

[Lii]

You know what else, if the show is  going to continue to maintain that none of these LA natives speak a lick of Spanish, they're really going to need to have Daniel in their party. This isn't tourist Tijuana - not everyone is going to conveniently habla ingles. 

[JackONeill]

4 minutes ago, SoSueMe said:

Daniel may not be with us anymore. On Talking Dead he didn't show up on the In Memoriam, but I thought I caught someone, maybe Hardwick,  reference him as dead and Gale Anne Hurd didn't correct him. Hope I'm wrong.

Hardwick asked Gale Anne Hurd something about Daniel and she, reluctantly, said that we'd see him again. Now, she may have meant as a ghost.

Plus, seriously, does Ruben Blades need this show? And, too, he probably costs too much, so I can see him being gone full time from the cast. Which is a shame.

[Muffyn]

4 hours ago, diebartdie said:

You can see it as a "Three's Company" style farce, or you can see it more from Alicia's point of view, see Chris as someone so torqued out they really are ready to kill and in fact, THEY ALREADY HAVE, see that way, his threatening a small child as well as his own father makes sense. I see it from Alicia's POV, Chris is murderous and needs to be seperated form the main group. Travis did the right thing by keeping him away, Chris might still murder Travis but at least this way, Travis' is minimizing the impact on Maddie and her spawn.

I was expressing what I saw as Chris' POV.  From Alicia's POV, he stood and watched when a walker was trying to make Madison into dinner and he threatened Alicia.   From Madison's POV, she knows Alicia is afraid of Chris and has reason to believe he wishes harm to both of them.  So waking up and seeing him holding the knife gave her good reason to be concerned.  I agree Travis did the right thing by separating Chris from the herd.  However, I still don't see his earlier actions as evidence of evil versus trauma.  The kid is f'ed up.  Then again, at this point, they should all be in some way.   

20 minutes ago, SoSueMe said:

Daniel may not be with us anymore. On Talking Dead he didn't show up on the In Memoriam, but I thought I caught someone, maybe Hardwick,  reference him as dead and Gale Anne Hurd didn't correct him. Hope I'm wrong.

They are going for Schrodinger's Daniel.  Is he dead or alive?   Did he burn or did he just exorcise his demons?  They were trying to make it sound open, then Gale said something that made it sound very much like he is still alive.  Later she does not react to the comment that Daniel is  dead.  Shenanigans!  

[SnarkyTart]

1 hour ago, Muffyn said:

They are going for Schrodinger's Daniel.  Is he dead or alive?   Did he burn or did he just exorcise his demons?  They were trying to make it sound open, then Gale said something that made it sound very much like he is still alive.  Later she does not react to the comment that Daniel is  dead.  Shenanigans!  

Schrodinger's Daniel...LOL!  Based on the original Schrodinger's Glenn 1.0 maybe?  My best guess is that we haven't seen the last of Daniel or Celia, and that Nick is soon to learn a much-needed lesson about whether zombies are monsters or not from (human) Daniel and (zombie) Celia's steel cage death match.  At least that's the way I'd like to see this particular storyline play out.  Which means that it probably won't. :-(

Ruben Blades truly is too good for this show. 

[phoenix780]

Nick spoke and understood a little Spanish, right?Travis should have. But minor point for this show. They're only having anyone speak any Spanish because it's what's done now, not for any kind of realism, and they can't even give clear subtitles because they wanted font with flair. This show, such a student project. 

So what I've learned is that the zombie apocalypse is essentially the same everywhere. You'll wind up in a seemingly safe place where someone will be storing zombies and it'll eventually burn. I wonder if the pace on this show is a reaction to viewer feedback from the farm on the original show. That was slow. This is as others have noted. 

I've decided that Madison lacks basic emotions on purpose and I hope that in the next part of the season we see her build her little empire of marauders and killers. Although, they may have hinted at her death in the conversation between her and Nick the Invincible after his shower, and I'd be OK with that. 

Hey, how does Nick get bloody? He can't kill one, because they're people right? Does he just stumble across the freshly dead ones and scavenge? Isn't that disrespectful?  

Wasn't as bad as I expected, which is a problem. I can watch good or bad, mediocre is much harder. But it might push expectations down before the mothership returns, so maybe I'll stick with it. 

[maczero]

21 hours ago, rab01 said:

We really are following the villains on this show.  They all could have just left with Strand and instead they had to murder Celia and burn down the house. I mean, yes, she was nuts but who cares? just walk away next time

Too true.  We all knew these people were selfish assholes when they let loose 1,000's of zombies just to get back three of their own.  Now Chris is threatening children.  And what Maddie did to Celia was way out of proportion to the threat Celia posed.  I don't believe Maddie knows that Celia was behind the church massacre so that's not the reason she left her to become walker chow.  The only reason she did it was because she didn't like the influence Celia had over Nick.

Alright, I can roll with Maddie being homicidal but is she stupid as well?  Celia was pretty much the queen of the castle, how did Maddie think Celia's people would respond  to her winding up dead shortly after a bunch of gringos show up at their home?

Edited May 24, 2016 by maczero

[Lii]

3 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Hardwick asked Gale Anne Hurd something about Daniel and she, reluctantly, said that we'd see him again. Now, she may have meant as a ghost.

Plus, seriously, does Ruben Blades need this show? And, too, he probably costs too much, so I can see him being gone full time from the cast. Which is a shame.

Does ANYONE need this show?

[Madding crowd]

I didn't care that Maddie locked Celia in the Walker pen. Celia was seriously messed up and she would have poisoned or killed them if she had half a chance. I don't understand her thoughts on keeping the dead penned up. With Herschel, he actually thought there might be a cure for the sickness. Celia just thinks the dead are taking on some other form or some such bullshit. I'm already tired of seeing Nick walk around in his zombie guts. It's ok to do to get past a herd, not ok for general recreation.

So are they separating everyone and then we will have to see their individual stories? God, I hope not. I would like to see Strand and Maddie buddy up cause they are both pretty tough. Maddie may not move a face muscle, but she is still pretty fierce. I would guess Daniel will return somehow, hopefully less crazy. 

[spiderpig]

Does anyone have a good recipe for posole?

[Save Yourself]

4 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

Does anyone have a good recipe for posole?

Hahaha! I've been trying to find one as well! I haven't heard of it before but I looked it up and it sounds so good. I'm in Australia so we just have pretty basic Mexican - tacos, enchiladas, etc. I've been trying to find hominy and that's really difficult to get here. 

[Jel]

19 hours ago, oakville said:

Agreed. The show runners should realize that Maddie can't show any facial expression. They should turn her into a Walker. Travis doesn't seem to care about her anyway. He wants to be with his psycho son , Chris. The show has so much potential given that it is the beginning of the apocalypse, but it is being wasted. They have to bring back Tobias & Alex.

Totally agree -- her expression is always at the "Hmm I was going to make tuna casserole and I could have sworn I had a can of tuna in the pantry -- damn it, someone must have eaten it and not written "tuna" on the grocery list!" level. It does not match the all out horror of the situation and the terror she should be feeling. I do like the show, but that's becoming a distraction for me, too.

From the second half of the season sneak peek:

Spoiler

Perhaps wishful thinking on my part, but I think those legs will turn out to be Alex's.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Jel

[Pixiebomb]

21 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Yeah, I said that as well. Especially being in LA county. I used to live in Northern Maine, and you pick up French words and sayings just be being there and so close to Canada (where I was). 

AND his ex wife was a Latina (wasn't she?).  

I was yelling "sapatos" the whole time. (I never took Spanish so sorry if I misspelled). 

[Haleth]

 That was dreadful, and not in a good way.  What the heck are the writers doing with Daniel and Nick, the two characters (in the family group) who get it?Nick suddenly drinks the KoolAid and wants to hang out with the zombies?  Daniel suddenly goes crazy and burns the compound down?  Travis and Chris take off on their own?  (OK, that one I can live with if we don't have to follow them.)  And Strand rescues the most useless of the group for reasons.  Are any of these people compelling enough to merit individual storylines?  I suppose TPTB wanted to make it different than original recipe TWD and break up the group, but these characters are not interesting enough to stand alone.

10 hours ago, maczero said:

We really are following the villains on this show.  They all could have just left with Strand and instead they had to murder Celia and burn down the house. I mean, yes, she was nuts but who cares? just walk away next time

Agreed.

[slf]

At least the show finally acknowledged that the drug addict was probably not going to be the best at handling the ZA. Nick the Walker Whisperer and High Functioning Drug Addict was stupid, frankly. It's a pity the writers don't know what they want to do with Nick because the actor, pretension aside, really is one of the better ones on this show.

IDGAF what they do with Chris and the others so long as they start writing Alicia well. The Walking Dead franchise doesn't have a great track record with women under 25 (Judith is the longest surviving) so I've got my fingers crossed for her. 

[spiderpig]

On 5/23/2016 at 3:33 AM, NorthstarATL said:

The Barking Dead?

After that compound inferno, it can be The Baking Dead.

[Rockfish]

On May 23, 2016 at 5:16 AM, spiderpig said:

Once again these characters make Lucy and Ricky Ricardo look like MIT professors. Keeping my fingers crossed for Preacher.

Lol!

I love watching this show in a Mystery Science Theater 3000 kind of way, even though I'm not as witty as Joel and his robot friends. The writing and editing are terrible--each episode seems to have a noticeably missing scene that causes me to foolishly rewind, looking for that evasive scene that logically sets up what I'm watching--the characters don't react realistically (to be fair, though, I have no idea what's realistic during a ZA). Same stuff everyone else is saying, basically.

However, I am an outlier because I like Kim Dickens, so I don't mind Maddie. Dickens earned my everlasting loyalty by being in a favorite movie of mine long ago: The Zero Effect, with Bill Pullman. I liked her blase line readings and her non-starlet looks--cranky, bored expression and all--which rang true to me; so I have no problem with her now. I just wish her character (and all the others) was written better. Now if the actor who plays Chris is in a quirky movie I like, I might bestow the same courtesy on him, but as of now he needs to be eaten.

I also couldn't figure out why Travis didn't know any rudimentary Spanish. okay.

I would have wanted to lock up Celia with her friends for her never-ending pious lectures. If I wanted to listen to that I'd watch more Ted Talks!

[spiderpig]

Where are we going to convene until the return of these numbskulls?  Preacher? (haven't seen yet)

[NurseGiGi]

My theory about Maddie is that she was bitten by the principal during their tussle in season one and is actually a zombie hybrid.  She's the human version of a Prius.

[BasilSeal]

9 minutes ago, Haleth said:

"We really are following the villains on this show"

Agreed

Well, yes, we sort of are. the clues have been there for a while though, one of our heroes was a torturer for a South American regime, another is a corporate raider come street hustler who's made money on the back of others' misery. Our heroes were prepared to abandon their neighbours to their fate and unleash thousands of zombies on the military compound in order to get their own people out, and fuck everybody else, i'd say that was kind of unequivocal, myself.

This is how it is in the world of TWD though, it's been a latent theme in the mothership series for a fair while now, one phrase that is constantly repeated, and it's been used on this show too is "good people":  "these are good people", "we're good people", "no really, I mean, we may turn up at your functioning community and completely fuck it over and get most of you killed, but we mean well, honestly". and so on. They're only just getting round to fully exploring this on TWD, by looking at the psychological cost of all the killing and asking at what point, after doing all these terrible things to survive, do they become no better than Negan or the cannibals? with fTWD they've cut straight to the chase. Partly because we don't need to go through it all again and partly because in this earlier version of the WD universe, there are still plenty of people who are alive, but we've seen the future, we know most of these people will die, our heroes can't save all of them, or any of them, it would seem, because in this world those who survive do so at the expense of others. you take what you can for yourself and your own, and in doing so deprive everyone else of the chance you've taken. For instance: would you take bread from a starving child to stop your own child from starving to death? I think the answer would be yes, for most people. Celia asks Madison what lengths she would go to to protect her family, to which the answer is: "at least as far as locking you in this cage with a bunch of zombies to be (probably) eaten"

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Death's Still Up For Discussion On Fear The Walking Dead

As if the apocalypse wasn't guilt-inducing enough, the mid-season finale ponders what we owe the non-living.

[riverheightsnancy]

1 hour ago, spiderpig said:

Where are we going to convene until the return of these numbskulls?  Preacher? (haven't seen yet)

Wayward Pines! It will make you think that FTWD is high art! 

[spiderpig]

1 minute ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Wayward Pines! It will make you think that FTWD is high art! 

You're on RHN! WP is a guilty pleasure. Unlike Under the Dome which really sucked.

[Raven1707]

The Sunday Cable Ratings are in for "Shiva":

The halfway point of "Fear the Walking Dead" drew a 1.9, even with the previous week. [4.388 million viewers]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/05/24/sunday-cable-ratings-may-22-2016/

 

And here are the Live + SD ratings for Season 2 so far:

04-10-16 “Monster” 6.674 million
04-17-16 “We All Fall Down” 5.581 million
04-24-16 “Ouroboros” 4.726 million
05-01-16 “Blood on the Streets” 4.803 million
05-08-16 “Captive” 4.414 million
05-15-16 “Sicut Cervus” 4.486 million
05-22-16 “Shiva” 4.388 million

[riverheightsnancy]

49 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

You're on RHN! WP is a guilty pleasure. Unlike Under the Dome which really sucked.

Because Wayward Pines in based on a book that (from what I read) was pretty well liked, the discussions got pretty heated. I would just chime in about my views of the show (all the inconsistencies and WTFness of the storyline???) and sit back and let other people battle. Get some popcorn. ;)

[piequinn35]

Did Maddie lock the gate but left the key in the keyhole? 

Yes this show is crazy nuts lol

[diebartdie]

No, she took the keys. Daniel lifted a second set of keys off that guard he knocked out, that is how he managed to get in the walker pen.

[spiderpig]

I'm loving these analyses.  I should have paid this much attention in college.

[spiderpig]

16 hours ago, NurseGiGi said:

My theory about Maddie is that she was bitten by the principal during their tussle in season one and is actually a zombie hybrid.  She's the human version of a Prius.

I'm ready to bite her myself.

[Bunnyhop]

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 6:00 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

For the all the drastic changes in character behavior, it's like there's a missing episode between the last one and this one.

Exactly!  Except I feel like maybe a couple of episodes were missing.  Everything seemed so rushed.  I'm not as good at recalling older seasons of TWD as most of you, but I'm thinking of Shane's descent into madness and how it was portrayed in a, I don't know, methodical? fashion.  You could watch it happening.  With this show, it's like everybody went crazy, in a different way, in a couple of episodes.  I find the drugged posole theory interesting.  Celia did go to lengths to deny that she had poisoned it at least a couple of times.  So in August are we going to hear everyone say "Gee, I feel so much better now that I'm not eating that soup every day!"

[nitrofishblue]

Sorry to say but this show has really gone downhill from the beginning. During the first season I did my best to let many things slide by, marking it up to this was the beginning of the zombies. But the writing never got better. The characters went from dumb to dumber to out right stupid. I watch now to get my weekly dose of comedy.

[spiderpig]

And Now Frank Dillane (Nick) has been arrested for battery.  This show can't catch a break.

[Ouisch]

On 5/23/2016 at 5:46 PM, spiderpig said:

One thing I particularly like about TWD is that women (whole cast, actually) look grungy, tired, beaten-up - as if they are in a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE. 

But then our heroes in FTWD are from LA. (I'm in NorCal  so I can say what I want.)

....except for Andrea, who still had delicate waves even when she was dying of pneumonia in the deer-processing plant with Michonne. Waterfall waves she didn't have back in Season One when she was fishing with Amy. And don't get me started on her polished, pedicured toenails when she was manipulating the pliers with her feet after the Governor handcuffed her into the Torture Chair.

 

Kim Dickens' perpetual just-sucked-on-a-lemon mouth drives me batty. I recently saw a portion of The Blind Side while flipping channels, and she was in a scene playing a teacher. I recognized her immediately because of that protrudant lower jaw and "I'm this close to barfing" expression. 

 

At least Travis looks like he's been living a semi-ragtag lifestyle on the run....he's sporting some beard growth, his hair is not always perfectly groomed. Nick has a magical T-shirt that allows blood to simply wash away under a shower spray, with no stains left behind. Wish ladies' underwear had the same feature, if you get my drift. The rest of the episode was just too much "Hershel's Barn Redux" for me....   Walkers kept in a secret location being fed live animals, the pouring of gasoline and tossing of the lighter....Perhaps our intrepid band of survivors will find a nice Mexican prison to hole up in during Season Three.

[maczero]

On 5/24/2016 at 2:34 PM, BasilSeal said:

Well, yes, we sort of are. the clues have been there for a while though, one of our heroes was a torturer for a South American regime, another is a corporate raider come street hustler who's made money on the back of others' misery. Our heroes were prepared to abandon their neighbours to their fate and unleash thousands of zombies on the military compound in order to get their own people out, and fuck everybody else, i'd say that was kind of unequivocal, myself.

This is how it is in the world of TWD though, it's been a latent theme in the mothership series for a fair while now, one phrase that is constantly repeated, and it's been used on this show too is "good people":  "these are good people", "we're good people", "no really, I mean, we may turn up at your functioning community and completely fuck it over and get most of you killed, but we mean well, honestly". and so on. They're only just getting round to fully exploring this on TWD, by looking at the psychological cost of all the killing and asking at what point, after doing all these terrible things to survive, do they become no better than Negan or the cannibals? with fTWD they've cut straight to the chase. Partly because we don't need to go through it all again and partly because in this earlier version of the WD universe, there are still plenty of people who are alive, but we've seen the future, we know most of these people will die, our heroes can't save all of them, or any of them, it would seem, because in this world those who survive do so at the expense of others. you take what you can for yourself and your own, and in doing so deprive everyone else of the chance you've taken. For instance: would you take bread from a starving child to stop your own child from starving to death? I think the answer would be yes, for most people. Celia asks Madison what lengths she would go to to protect her family, to which the answer is: "at least as far as locking you in this cage with a bunch of zombies to be (probably) eaten"

If the plan is to cut to the chase and have the protagonists willing to commit the most desperate acts to ensure their own survival then I say it's a mistake to do it this early.  Rick & company acted like feral animals when they first entered Alexandria but their descent into madness made sense given what they've been through.  The TWD crew has been living this hell for years.  The FTWD crew has only been in the apocalypse a few weeks and most of that time has been spent living in two different luxury homes and a yacht.  I can't say Maddie & co. have earned the right to be at their current level of crazy.

Let's compare Carl & Chris.  Chris has to live with the knowledge that his father had to kill his mother to stop her from turning.  I admit that's some tough shit to have to deal with it.  However, Carl has been shot, forced to kill his mother after watching his baby sister being carved out of her, nearly raped, nearly eaten by cannibals, and shot again resulting in the loss of an eye.  If anybody should be a psychopath, it's Carl.

A similar comparison could be made between Carol vs. Maddie.  I have know doubt current Carol would've locked Celia in the walker pen, but I don't believe season 1 or 2 Carol was at that level of ruthlessness.  Maddie is murdering people because she feels threatened by their ideology. 

In short, I'm just saying I think it wouldn't have taken something as extreme as the zombie apocalypse to turn FTWD crew into murderous assholes.

Edited May 25, 2016 by maczero

[JackONeill]

3 hours ago, spiderpig said:

And Now Frank Dillane (Nick) has been arrested for battery.  This show can't catch a break.

I remember how if there was even the slightest indiscretion from an actor (regardless if they were 1st, 2nd or 3rd class) on the set of Lost, the actor wound up being fired.

I'm not passing judgement. It's not my place. But I like the way some people think and act.

[riverheightsnancy]

1 hour ago, Ouisch said:

....except for Andrea, who still had delicate waves even when she was dying of pneumonia in the deer-processing plant with Michonne. Waterfall waves she didn't have back in Season One when she was fishing with Amy. And don't get me started on her polished, pedicured toenails when she was manipulating the pliers with her feet after the Governor handcuffed her into the Torture Chair.

 

Kim Dickens' perpetual just-sucked-on-a-lemon mouth drives me batty. I recently saw a portion of The Blind Side while flipping channels, and she was in a scene playing a teacher. I recognized her immediately because of that protrudant lower jaw and "I'm this close to barfing" expression. 

 

At least Travis looks like he's been living a semi-ragtag lifestyle on the run....he's sporting some beard growth, his hair is not always perfectly groomed. Nick has a magical T-shirt that allows blood to simply wash away under a shower spray, with no stains left behind. Wish ladies' underwear had the same feature, if you get my drift. The rest of the episode was just too much "Hershel's Barn Redux" for me....   Walkers kept in a secret location being fed live animals, the pouring of gasoline and tossing of the lighter....Perhaps our intrepid band of survivors will find a nice Mexican prison to hole up in during Season Three.

Totally agree about Andrea and her hair. I watched those seasons well after they aired, so I never got to comment about the toenails, but yeah. I remember that and it totally took me out of the scene when I did see it. I figured that she was able to get that done while in Governorville, because they were trying to be civilized and all,  but it was a total hand-wave on my part. I also agree with the lack of stains on Nicks shirt. Oxyclean works well on blood, but the most that we have seen with Nick is getting hosed off and we have not seen anyone doing laundry like we did in the first season on TWD. These guys have had it good compared to the Atlanta crew. 

[spiderpig]

2 hours ago, Ouisch said:

....Perhaps our intrepid band of survivors will find a nice Mexican prison to hole up in during Season Three.

Maybe they can use the leftover set from the Panama season of Prison Break.

[Iguessnot]

12 hours ago, spiderpig said:

And Now Frank Dillane (Nick) has been arrested for battery.  This show can't catch a break.

I never googled his image before. I think I can smell him through my computer.

[Nashville]

On 5/22/2016 at 9:03 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Well that was stupid.  Where did all those walkers come from at the end ?  And why weren't they on fire ?  How did that entire building go up so quickly and no one notice the fumes beforehand ?  Because wine doesn't ignite like that, even if fueled by gasoline.

On the plus side, it's kinda nice to see FTWD continue its progenitor's trope of finding a secure stable community with definite long-term longevity potential - and burning it to the ground in short order.

Well... maybe not nice.  But familiar at least.

 

On 5/22/2016 at 9:04 PM, Sherry67 said:

I'm bummed that we seemingly lost Daniel forever -- he was one of the only truly interesting characters on the show.

As has already been pointed out - we didn't actually SEE Daniel go all crispy critter....

 

On 5/23/2016 at 1:23 AM, LocimusPrime said:

How did Celia command do much power? She was the freaking maid/nanny. 

I got the impression Celia was the lead Santeros of the local Santeria clique.

 

On 5/23/2016 at 4:28 AM, icemiser69 said:

I have no clue what the heck is going on.  Perhaps Billy Joel can write a song in an effort to make sense of this episode.

But they did start the fire.  Or Daniel did, at least.  ;>

 

On 5/23/2016 at 4:52 PM, xaxat said:

So the season ends with Bloody Nick rejecting his family and wandering off on his own.

...which, in my mind, vindicates Nick as the most intelligent character on this show.  Anything distancing him from the S.S. Moveable Feast is a survival bonus.

 

On 5/24/2016 at 1:02 PM, NurseGiGi said:

My theory about Maddie is that she was bitten by the principal during their tussle in season one and is actually a zombie hybrid.  She's the human version of a Prius.

Nah.  Ford Focus at best.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I'm having a hard time articulating this but this damn show I can't quit escalates very quickly despite  maintaining very little dramatic tension. Nick flipped out and doesn't want to kill walkers. Chris flipped out and is threatening to kill everyone. Daniel flipped out and is trying to kill everyone and walkers  and himself. Strand abandoned Alex and now his boyfriend is dead. Alicia is a hardened survivor even though two seconds ago she was listening to indie rock and allowing herself to be taken in by a sketchy ass pirate.

And yet I still feel like I've been watching Travis and Madison's blank expressions in that damn school for fifty or sixty years.

Bring back Tobias.

Edited May 26, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[spiderpig]

46 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

Bring back Tobias.

I'm having a senior moment.  Who was Tobias?

Edited May 26, 2016 by spiderpig

[TattleTeeny]

[OK, I don't know where the quote button went, but it's apparently gone so bold it is.]

"Let's compare Carl & Chris.  Chris has to live with the knowledge that his father had to kill his mother to stop her from turning.  I admit that's some tough shit to have to deal with it.  However, Carl has been shot, forced to kill his mother after watching his baby sister being carved out of her, nearly raped, nearly eaten by cannibals, and shot again resulting in the loss of an eye.  If anybody should be a psychopath, it's Carl."

Everyone could learn some valuable lessons from my fabulous Carl! That's an adaptable, capable, kick-ass kid, and I love him--hat, hairdo, and all! 

"Kim Dickens' perpetual just-sucked-on-a-lemon mouth drives me batty. I recently saw a portion of The Blind Side while flipping channels, and she was in a scene playing a teacher. I recognized her immediately because of that protrudant lower jaw and "I'm this close to barfing" expression." 

My BF is not known for noticing details but he was mocking something Madison did/said last week by saying, "Yeah, Madison." And then he added, "with your wide neck." I couldn't stop laughing...and now I can't stop noticing it.

Also, these articles are my BF's favorite thing about this show.
http://www.funnyordie.com/articles/ab333c32c4/the-14-most-ridiculous-things-from-last-night-s-fear-the-walking-dead-mid-season-finale?_cc=__d___&_ccid=3c3e05fa79c47eb8

Edited May 26, 2016 by TattleTeeny