S01.E16: Legendary

[FurryFury]

I think we may learn about it later, although that's probably giving the show too much credit.

[MarkHB]

9 hours ago, Actionmage said:

I was hoping that Kendra had run into Easy Company, but I was glad that didn't pan out as the poor G.I. got ganked by Vandal.

 

7 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Please tell me that soldier wasn't Sgt. Rock. You need to find someone who looks way more badass to play him.

I thought Easy Company as well (in fact I think most of us who knew of that associated them with that helmet all along), but fortunately the credits just said "American Soldier" or some such.  Still looking forward to Sgt. Rock!

 

9 hours ago, Delphi said:

Ugh,  maybe it's because I have had a horrible week worth selling my house and then my uncle perishing in a horrible car accident,  but everything with Sara involving Laurel broke my damn heart and I was a wreck.   Paul really sold his mourning father,  that was damn sad.

I'll take that over to Small Talk.

 

4 hours ago, Slovenly Muse said:

Also, Savage's goal was to "erase time?" What on earth could that possibly even mean, and what could it get him?

As I took it, it meant that due to the paradox created by the world being destroyed 3 times, he could actually rewind the world back to the time of Ancient Egypt -- erase almost all of recorded history and start over -- and rule as an immortal dictator for all time.

[FurryFury]

It was funny hearing all this talk about destroying time so soon after 12 Monkeys revealed it as the endgoal of its Big Bad organization. Although here, it was more of a metaphor for turning time back to 1700 BC (although I have no idea why, Savage's motives felt very unclear most of the time).

[tarotx]

Savage was creating a paradox but believed he would retain his memories and be able to live his long life without the aid of the time masters this time. 

And the reason they were taking out all 3 Savage meteorites at the same time because Savage was creating a time event with his "magic" words or what not. Sure it didn't make sense that they had to do it at the same time but for some reason the characters believe they had too.  This is the the number one flaw of the show-Tptb assume we all are inside their heads and know what time travel bits they are thinking about.

I personally love the episode. I loved the character interactions. I loved the look of the fight in time. It was an emotional with fun bits. Still found the Hawks and Savage the worst. So I'm super stoaked they aren't returning as regulars.  Keeping them alive keeps them open for return which I personally am not enthused about but People seem to want to have Hawkgirl Alive because of the Flash future newspaper.

Edited May 27, 2016 by tarotx

[Misanthrope]

"Oh no, the Hawkpeople are leaving the show..."

-No one, ever.

[Primetimer]

Can they stop him before it's too late?

View the full article

[benteen]

Quote

And speaking about Sara, damn, she made me feel something other than glee for Laurel's death. I was a bit disappointed she didn't stay for fighting Dhark in Arrow finale, it would make sense for her to do a small cameo, IMO.

Yeah, this was the issue with having her return right when Arrow's season finale is taking place.  Sara would have hung around to make sure Dhark was taken care of.  Then again, considering it was a choice between one guy who wants to destroy the world and another guy who wants to destroy the current world and all of time you can't go wrong with choosing either one. 

Someone noted that Vandal Savage seems more skeezy then menacing.  I agree with that.  He always looks like someone who did something wildly inappropriate at a party and then can't keep a straight face about it because he thinks its hilarious.  Like he let out a huge fart in front of a group of people.

[benteen]

12 minutes ago, PreviouslyTV said:

Can they stop him before it's too late?

View the full article

I'm glad I don't have a loud laugh because I'm laughing my ass off at those Vandal Savage facial expressions.  At least the character was good for that!

Speaking of not being able to save family members, I take it that includes Jax's father too.

[darkestboy]

Loved, loved, loved this one. My new favourite. Seeing Savage being killed three times over by Kendra, Sara, Mick and Rip was bloody glorious. A deserved exit for an annoying villain.

Not disappointed that Kendra/Carter decided to leave but I think we'll see them next season in some capacity along with Snart.

The appearance of Hourman at the end was nice. Love what that's setting up next season as well.

Sara's reaction to Laurel's death was heartbreaking. Mick getting to see Snart once again also the same too.

Great moments with Ray and Jax/Stein in this episode too. I also liked Clarissa encouraging her husband to travel again too. 8/10

[Sakura12]

From the recap, I really wonder where Ray got the idea that he wanted Mick and him to be BFF's? Maybe he wanted Sara and Mick to help each other become better people. They were the three alone in the end. They were the three that hung out the most and respected each other from the get go. Snart looked like he barely cared for Ray, let alone wanting him to be the replacement BFF. 

I get that Ray is probably good for Mick but I can't really see Snart thinking about them that much. 

I'm glad CL is getting some praise for her performance with Sara's grief. I know she's not the strongest actress but she really understands her character and that's exactly how I think Sara would act. She would break down in front of her father, threaten to kill Rip to get her sister back and pull it together to keep fighting. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by Sakura12

[nksarmi]

23 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

From the recap, I really wonder where Ray got the idea that he wanted Mick and him to be BFF's? Maybe he wanted Sara and Mick to help each other become better people. They were the three alone in the end. They were the three that hung out the most and respected each other from the get go. Snart looked like he barely cared for Ray, let alone wanting him to be the replacement BFF. 

I get that Ray is probably good for Mick but I can't really see Snart thinking about them that much. 

I don't think Ray really thought that - I think Ray was just being his typically peppy self and wanted to recruit Rory to bring Rip/Waverider back. I think Ray likes Mick a lot - not in a slash way, but just respects the hell out of his character arc the same way most of us do. :)

[henripootel]

Quote

 

The earth is like a spec to the sun.  1.3 million earths would fit into the Sun.  The sun can and does handle earth sized explosions all the time. 

 

This wasn't your normal exploding rock, this was part of a plan to destroy time itself.  It's only 1/3 of the plan but I'm gonna go with 'it has super-duper magical properties'.  I wouldn't bet our sole source of warmth and light on 'it's super big so can likely take care of itself', especially when it's completely unnecessary.  It does bring up the question of 'what's the minimum safe distance from an event that'll affect time, or if there is one.  Or how Rip knows. 

Quote

Savage was creating a paradox but believed he would retain his memories and be able to live his long life without the aid of the time masters this time. 

Why bother?  He has a time ship, why not just zoom back to Egypt, bonk his non-immortal self on the head and start all over, with his 4000 years of (surprisingly ineffective) evil experience and, you know, a time ship.  Why zap yourself back to the bronze age age at all?  Just use it to bebop through history setting up super kingdoms, which you can supply with future tech and whatnot with your time machine.  'Time machine' pretty much solves all problems, why trade that for getting to go back to pooping in a bucket?  Savage is a pretty shite conquerer - I'm beginning to see why it took him 4000 years to take over much of anything while Alexander and Temüjin did so much in one lifetime.   

[Cekrypton1]

if you had told me two years ago that Mick--grunty, brutal Mick--would end up being my favorite character, I would have laughed. But his character works with EVERYONE. Well done, team Legends, It's about the only thing you've done right.

[johntfs]

I don't miss the Hawks as a couple, but I will miss Kendra and what she might have been,  Ciara Renee is a really good singer who's on Broadway, and I wish they'd let her sing some on the show.  I hold out a little hope with Mick's "I give it three months."  It would be funny if the Hawks found that without the pressure of Vandal Savage haunting them, they really were incompatible because Carter was a creepy, controlling asshole.

[DavidJSnyder]

They can bring her back when they do the four part musical crossover storyline among the shows. (Can anyone on Arrow sing? Besides Barrowman?)

[Sakura12]

Most of the Flarroverse cast can sing.

Being a good singer doesn't means she's a good actress. That's what this show needed not a singer. I'm glad Kendra's gone. If they have to bring her back hopefully it's a one off episode. 

[blackwing]

41 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I don't miss the Hawks as a couple, but I will miss Kendra and what she might have been,  Ciara Renee is a really good singer who's on Broadway, and I wish they'd let her sing some on the show.  I hold out a little hope with Mick's "I give it three months."  It would be funny if the Hawks found that without the pressure of Vandal Savage haunting them, they really were incompatible because Carter was a creepy, controlling asshole.

I'm not going to miss her in the least.  I think she's a terrible actress and the casting department really missed the boat here.  I don't get it... she made the character completely uncharismatic and made me actually wish that the character died.  The actress showed so much more life in those commercials with the five second snippets of her sitting in a car and seeing some graffiti.  But her portrayal of the character was abysmal.  I hope she never comes back.

[NorthstarATL]

Glads the Savage storyline is over! I didn't particularly hate the actor playing him, but I never quite got the character as a "Big Bad" either here OR in the comics. My favorite Hawks in the comics were/are the Thanagarian police officers, so the reincarnating lovers were not a selling point either. Still, they got a pretty decent team together, and I can live with that, especially with the JSA (or at least some of them) making an appearance next season! I was expecting the guy at the end to say "Rick Tyler" rather than Rex. His future daughter-in-law is on Flash currently. Interesting. And, please, let Sara take the Black Canary name! BC was rarely masked, and the name has more to do with canaries and coal mines than sonic screams.

[Aeryn13]

The Hawks are gone. Hooray. I hesitate to blame the actors too much because while I didn`t find the performances strong, the material they were given was abysmal. Now Carter wasn`t on much but Kendra was a regular and all they could give her in terms of character development was weak love stories. Even the potentially interesting set-up of having 4000 years of history, being cursed and the flashbacks were all about her love life ultimately.

Ray had some character development or at least setting up his character on Arrow. Kendra was relatively new, other than her brief introduction in Flash as a (you guessed it) love interest. But the show didn`t even bother fleshing her out, they pretty much threw her into a love story with Ray and tried to play it as something epic.     

Everything they did wrong with Kendra, they did right with Mick, I gotta agree. I was rolling my eyes about bringing him on the show along with Captain Cold. But his little scene with Snart in the past was really moving. I have nothing against his friendship with Ray being fleshed out if they tone down Ray`s goofiness a bit. I get he is supposed to be optimistic and naive but it often borders on annoying for me. 

Poor Sara, her scenes with her father were the other truly moving parts for me. When Rip flat-out said "no" to her wish to go back and save her family, I at first thought "holy hypocrisy". Thankfully, they fleshed it out a bit.

I gotta admit, I liked that they were ballsy enough to let the death of Rip`s family stick. Sure, it can feel like fridging and I thought Rip hallucinating them a last time warranted a tiny "aww" but this Schroedinger`s family shtick held the character back. Maybe they can flesh him out next Season. 

Stein and Jax are fine but they, too, could use a bit of story moving them forward IMO.

It was good to see Savage die three times. Epic failure as a villain. The actor chewed way too much scenery and just couldn`t bring the scaryness, only smarmyness.   

My main feeling about the show right now is still being incredibly bummed Snart won`t be a regular on the ship next Season. And is Sara the only woman now? Feels a bit lopsided. 

[elle]

(and don't miss the part where Sara refers to herself as a Time Master, nor Rip's cheesy but still amusing Back To The Future homage) 

Thank you for the screen caps/GIFs! Missed the show, so it was treat for me to see Rip rising a la Marty! Didn't I see a quote where Sara says she's from "Western Union"? If so, that as BttF reference too.

Edited May 20, 2016 by elle

[ItCouldBeWorse]

14 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I wonder if Past Snart was like "Who F are you and what have you done with Mick".

Yeah, when he runs into 2013 Mick, who won't know about this conversation, it'll be weird.

[mrspidey]

"A Time Master is never late."

Well, Sarah, who dresses up all in white and fights with a staff made a Gandalf reference. Thank you for that, show. 

[FurryFury]

Quote

My main feeling about the show right now is still being incredibly bummed Snart won`t be a regular on the ship next Season. And is Sara the only woman now? Feels a bit lopsided. 

There's a casting call for a new female regular, a WoC, too (I think Sakura really wants for her to be Lady Blackhawk :) )But I still think it's not enough. Maybe we'll get somebody recurring. I mean, there's Savage's daughter who can be back, she was moderately well-received. And maybe there will be a female villain, who knows.

"A Time Master is never late."

Well, Sarah, who dresses up all in white and fights with a staff made a Gandalf reference. Thank you for that, show. 

You just blew my mind. I didn't get the reference, how could I! I mean, Sara even got "White" only after her resurrection! Shame upon my head!

Edited May 20, 2016 by FurryFury

[Sakura12]

14 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

"A Time Master is never late."

Well, Sarah, who dresses up all in white and fights with a staff made a Gandalf reference. Thank you for that, show. 

Sara's, Gandalf, I'll take it. 

I do want the new character to be Lady Blackhawk, another kick ass woman that doesn't need CGI. I'm wondering if Vixen is going to be showing up since the actress was at the Upfronts when her show has nothing do with them. Having Vixen and Lady Blackhawk will make it two women of color and even out the team a bit. 

[ACW]

11 hours ago, henripootel said:

'Homage', 'rip-off', it's hard to tell the difference sometimes. They did replicate the same error - how did anyone on the Waverider know Rip would be forced off the roof right there and then?  It's the same question from the movie - how did Doc know Marty was gonna end up on the roof and have to jump off?  Still think it was less a tip of the hat to a classic movie and more of a cheesy recreation.  

Hey,now.  At least Marty looked over the edge and saw that Doc was there first.

2 hours ago, henripootel said:

Why bother?  He has a time ship, why not just zoom back to Egypt, bonk his non-immortal self on the head and start all over, with his 4000 years of (surprisingly ineffective) evil experience and, you know, a time ship.  Why zap yourself back to the bronze age age at all?  Just use it to bebop through history setting up super kingdoms, which you can supply with future tech and whatnot with your time machine.  'Time machine' pretty much solves all problems, why trade that for getting to go back to pooping in a bucket?  Savage is a pretty shite conquerer - I'm beginning to see why it took him 4000 years to take over much of anything while Alexander and Temüjin did so much in one lifetime.   

This, I can explain:  "Time wants to happen."  Same excuse for why Sarah can't save Laurel; Time will fight against most large changes.  The timestream has inertia, so if you want to really shake things up, you need to get rid of the timestream first.

[henripootel]

Quote

This, I can explain:  "Time wants to happen."  Same excuse for why Sarah can't save Laurel; Time will fight against most large changes.  The timestream has inertia, so if you want to really shake things up, you need to get rid of the timestream first.

Hee - wrong show.  11.22.63 was at least consistent with their time travel stuff, enough that I didn't mind that they never even tried to explain the 'time wants to happen' part.  I'm cool with that but here's the thing about about the rules of a show; you have to establish them and then stick with them.  But this takes thinking, more than it takes to choreograph 3 fight scenes that have the visual finesse of gorillas hitting each other.  

Contrast that show with this one.  'Time wants to happen'?  Time isn't preventing Savage from nearly 'wiping it out' (whatever that means) but it is preventing Sarah from saving Laurel?  I'm not an Arrow guy so I'm gonna have to assume that the actress who plays 'Laurel' got killed off and cast on a different show, necessitating that Sarah 'can't save her'.  Else-wise this makes no flipping sense at all, even if it's way, way down the list of 'shit that makes no sense' in this episode alone. 

[tarotx]

Arrow wanted to make death matter again and to kill a mask. That is why Laurel is dead dead. 

But Rip has said that Time wants to happen. The Time masters do little changes to the time line to make big changes later. It's their philosophy which Rip was raised under. 

Savage seems to not care about the timeline. Rip's plan for season 2 is to preserve history so he's still a time master at heart. 

[John Ramos]

14 minutes ago, henripootel said:

Hee - wrong show.  11.22.63 was at least consistent with their time travel stuff, enough that I didn't mind that they never even tried to explain the 'time wants to happen' part.  I'm cool with that but here's the thing about about the rules of a show; you have to establish them and then stick with them.  But this takes thinking, more than it takes to choreograph 3 fight scenes that have the visual finesse of gorillas hitting each other.  

Contrast that show with this one.  'Time wants to happen'?  Time isn't preventing Savage from nearly 'wiping it out' (whatever that means) but it is preventing Sarah from saving Laurel?  I'm not an Arrow guy so I'm gonna have to assume that the actress who plays 'Laurel' got killed off and cast on a different show, necessitating that Sarah 'can't save her'.  Else-wise this makes no flipping sense at all, even if it's way, way down the list of 'shit that makes no sense' in this episode alone. 

I also think that everything Rip thinks he knows about time is suspect to bullshit, since the head Time Masters were manipulating time the whole time. (Too much time on this show.) So how he could "know" Laurel can't be saved is a mystery, unless he reads fan boards.

[Sakura12]

They can't bring Laurel back because they fired the actress. That is the only reason they needed to make up an excuse for the show.  

[KirkB]

You don't need hard and fast rules to make sci fi work. It helps, certainly. But I think consistency is more important. You can get away with time working differently from episode to episode with a simple "wibbly wobbly, timey wimey" so long as it is otherwise entertaining. The problem comes if you specifically say things work a certain way and then later change it with no explanation. I don't necessarily need an explanation beyond "a wizard did it" so long as you don't spend a season telling me it was a wizard and then suddenly make it out to have been an alien all along.

When Rip and Sara were talking he said something about if she tried to go back and save Laurel, even if she took the team, not only would Laurel still die but so would Sara and Quentin. Which seems to be similar to the idea that Rip when went back repeatedly to try and save his own family he kept failing and watching them die. Some things are apparently 'meant' to happen and can't be changed. Though I have to wonder how he knows that since he made a point of saying without the Occulus nothing in time travel was clear.

[ohjoy]

13 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

How about HeatRay?

That's actually really fantastic. I hope it sticks.

[henripootel]

Quote

But Rip has said that Time wants to happen. The Time masters do little changes to the time line to make big changes later. It's their philosophy which Rip was raised under. 

True, it's what the Time Masters said, but they said a lot of shit we know perfectly well isn't true, not simply by logic but by other stuff we saw in the show.  It seems abundantly obvious that 'time' doesn't 'want' anything, the Time Masters did.  And they're dead now, forever and through all time, it seems.  This alone violates the 'time wants shit' nonsense, or maybe time changed its mind, first wanting the Time Masters to exist and then wanting them not to.  Now, we realize the Time Masters were full of shit all along, why doesn't Rip?  Oh right, he does, but only inasmuch as the rules should be broken for his loved ones but not Sarah's.  I know, the real reason (the actress who plays Laurel got fired) but from a show-perspective, it's inconsistent bullshit.  

Quote

You can get away with time working differently from episode to episode with a simple "wibbly wobbly, timey wimey" so long as it is otherwise entertaining.

Not for nothing, but 'timey wimey' isn't (in my opinion) shorthand for 'it's all just nonsense anyway so don't bother trying to make sense of it'.  I think it means that time travel can end you up with weird, seemingly-illogical things.  If, for instance, Savage had simply taken his timeship and back to ancient Egypt, he could have killed his earlier mortal self and stepped back into his life, immortal and with 4000 years of memory that nobody else remembers happening.  He exists, but has no origin (in this timeline), which sounds impossible but hey, timey wimey.  Effects don't always have a cause you can identify anymore, not with time travel.  

What if Savage had simply decided to stay in 1975 and live on from there, does that mean there'd be two Vandal Savages from now on?  Sure.  It sounds impossible but only because 'People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a nonlinear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.'  This doesn't mean 'turn off your brains, nothing makes sense from here on out', it means time travel can do some weird things.  Even this show acknowledges this, they just want it both ways (so they can pretend that there are 'rules' then simply ignore them for the sake of laziness).  Timey wimey is a really interesting idea, right up to the point where you decide it means 'whatever you want it to mean for the moment', which is just another way of saying it means nothing at all.  

[squidprincess]

Thing is, Rip didn't succeed in saving his family.  He tried repeatedly from the sound of it.  Only for the same thing to happen.  So it isn't so much that Rip is hypocritically denying Sara, as it is him speaking as the voice of experience.  (And more accurately the showrunners).  If she tries, she would presumably fail. Given how Laurel was killed, I'm inclined to agree.

It was pretty strongly implied that if he hadn't recruited Sara, she would have died in the same set up...which would explain her lack of "effect" on history.  Might be that a similar thing was true for the other characters.  Hence he returned them five months later instead of five minutes.

Edited May 20, 2016 by squidprincess

[Sakura12]

Sara already died once and was resurrected. Wouldn't that already put her on the not having an effect on history?: 

[henripootel]

Quote

Thing is, Rip didn't succeed in saving his family.  He tried repeatedly from the sound of it.  Only for the same thing to happen.  So it isn't so much that Rip is hypocritically denying Sara, as it is him speaking as the voice of experience.  (And more accurately the showrunners).

No, it's the writers wanting things both ways, again and again.  

Rip did save his family - killing Savage in the past was the plan all along, and they did it.  Savage in no form is any longer alive to kill Rip's family, even if one of the Savages killed remembers killing Rip's family.  This doesn't mean it will happen again, this time, and in plain fact it can't happen.  Savage is dead dead dead.  Rip's original plan worked, and it's just lazy nonsense that it 'made sense' at the beginning of the season and now that it's happened, it no longer make sense. The writers just want it both ways, Savage is dead and Rip has to live with tragedy.  Bullshit.

Rip's hypocrisy is that he won't even consider trying for Sarah what he stole a time ship and assembled a team to do for himself (and arguably, accomplished).  The writers have to make Rip a hypocrite (and hope nobody notices) because the 'reality' of the show requires it.  The actress who played Laurel apparently got fired, so she can't come back.  Doesn't mean Rip's not a hypocrite.  Likewise, the show got picked up for a second season so Rip can't be allowed to do what he said he wanted only to do - go home to his saved family.   Doesn't mean this makes a lick of sense. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by henripootel

[squidprincess]

Except the last Vandal Savage DID kill Rip's family, while Kendra was with him. That was the last Savage killed.  He had Kendra and had already killed them in the previous episode.  It actually does make sense when you think it through.

The earlier Savages killed got better off screen.  Just like he did when Rip killed him in 1975.  That's why killing him 3 times wasn't the paradox.  It was only the last time, a Savage who time traveled back from 2166 who actually died for good.

The show makes it clear the family is still dead.  Sorry that the explanation isn't good enough for you, but they are dead.  

But honestly, Rip isn't even speaking as a time master to Sara in that moment when he brings up his family. He's speaking as a man and saying "Don't be me."

[ohjoy]

Okay, counterpoint time: what if Rip didn't save his family, even with the "3rd" Savage dying in 2021 instead of 2166? Hear me out.

So, Vandal Savage becomes a time traveler. He starts bouncing around different points in time. One of those points is the point at which he kills Rip's family. After that, he begins to implement his plan to "erase time" via the three specific points in history. The Savage that went back to 1958 (and 1975) to prep his younger selves on his grand plan had already killed Rip's family. Then that same Savage went forward to 2021 to be the "3rd" Savage that they had to kill. Someone mentioned earlier that the "3rd" Savage, the most recent one, was the one whose death actually stuck and resulted in Savage being dead, dead, dead. If that's the case, and that Savage is the one that's been bouncing around time, then he would have already bounced forward to 2166 and killed Rip's family before bouncing back to 2021 and being killed himself. Hence Rip's family still being dead.

ETA: or what squidprincess already said. So yeah. :-)

Edited May 20, 2016 by RandomMe
because I'm don't think as fast as I type

[Lokiberry]

Why does this show have ANY obligation to Laurel beyond what's necessary to further SARA's story? Laurel is not, nor has ever been, a  part of LoT. They didn't save Snart or Rip's family because timey-wimey, so it's makes no sense that Laurel would get treated any differently.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Lokiberry

[squidprincess]

1 hour ago, RandomMe said:

Okay, counterpoint time: what if Rip didn't save his family, even with the "3rd" Savage dying in 2021 instead of 2166? Hear me out.

So, Vandal Savage becomes a time traveler. He starts bouncing around different points in time. One of those points is the point at which he kills Rip's family. After that, he begins to implement his plan to "erase time" via the three specific points in history. The Savage that went back to 1958 (and 1975) to prep his younger selves on his grand plan had already killed Rip's family. Then that same Savage went forward to 2021 to be the "3rd" Savage that they had to kill. Someone mentioned earlier that the "3rd" Savage, the most recent one, was the one whose death actually stuck and resulted in Savage being dead, dead, dead. If that's the case, and that Savage is the one that's been bouncing around time, then he would have already bounced forward to 2166 and killed Rip's family before bouncing back to 2021 and being killed himself. Hence Rip's family still being dead.

ETA: or what squidprincess already said. So yeah. :-)

In fact, we've got some evidence that this is exactly what happened: Kendra.

We saw Savage (fresh from 2166, via Waverider), take Kendra at Vanishing Point, in Destiny.  She was still in the time ship when he left it to kill Rip's family (again), around the time Rip and company were destroying the oculus...well, time is the wrong word, but still.  He came back to the ship after having done it.  Then they both went to the 1940s.

He lost Carter in the 1940s, but found his current selves in 1958/1975, but we didn't see him prep his 2021 self, because that was him.  We know this, because he still had Kendra.

Kendra's the continuity point.  The ACTUAL 2021 Savage wasn't involved with this mess at all, he simply continued his life to 2166.  2166 Savage is the one involved, after he killed Miranda and Jonas.

Edited May 20, 2016 by squidprincess

[twoods]

Patrick Adams in season two? I am so in! Plus no Hawks and Savage- it's as if the writers knew what exactly to do to revamp season two. Plus, bring Snart back please.

Sarah grieving for Laurel was so sad. I did see a little spark with her and Rip but they probably won't go there. Rip and Mick were nice as well, and Jax and Stein are always nice. Excited for season two because I watch mostly for the character interactions.

[squidprincess]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Sara already died once and was resurrected. Wouldn't that already put her on the not having an effect on history?: 

I don't think so, because she was already back.  Sara, alive, would still have an effect on history (one assumes.)  Based on what Rip said to Sara, it sounded like both Sara and Laurel were there, Dahrk killed both of them to get to Lance.  Then either kills Lance, or Lance gets himself killed.

This is strictly speculation, of course, but it could be that when Rip says he picked them because of their lack of effect on history, he may have been, essentially, saying that he picked each of them because they were supposed to die soon in some meaningless way.  (For example, perhaps Ray was supposed to visit that city that got nuked in Arrow.  Something silly like that.)   That would be a fairly decent reason for Rip to drop them all a few months later.  This isn't like the Doctor, who can barely steer his TARDIS.  Thus far, except for Mick/Chronos's intervention in 1958, he's easily gotten the ship to go where he wants.  So that would imply the five month gap was on purpose.

It would make a cold sort of sense if he picked his team for this suicide mission out of people who were supposed to die meaninglessly.  But then, he turned around and got attached to them anyway, because Rip never quite does anything right.

[Lantern7]

Did not think the solider was Frank Rock. I don't know if a TV show can capture his essence, because he was just too awesome. Maybe the slain guy was polishing his helmet.

[TyranAmiros]

I don't watch Flash, but it seems logical to me that Sara and Ray were doomed under the Dahrk story if they had stayed on Arrow. Sara to get to Lance, Ray because he'd refuse to play ball with Dahrk. 

The line I would have liked from Rip would be something along the lines of "I told you when we began that you weren't integral to the timeline. Laurel's death is, because if she doesn't die in 2016, Dahrk wins."

[Sakura12]

Why did Rip drop them off in Star City, when all of them except Sara are from Central City? That means the rest of them had to find transportation to where ever Central City is (which I think it's in another state)

[marketdoctor]

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The line I would have liked from Rip would be something along the lines of "I told you when we began that you weren't integral to the timeline. Laurel's death is, because if she doesn't die in 2016, Dahrk wins."

That would have fixed a big chunk of the show with a line of dialogue.  

The other part is:  why did they need to kill Vandal Savage "at the same time" when they're in different years?  Was it because the rocks were connecting points in time (like ends of a wormhole?), did I miss something, or was it part of the waving the clock hands?

Also, if this show hadn't been renewed, I would watch "Canary and HeatRay" on an alternate Earth network.  

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 That means the rest of them had to find transportation to where ever Central City is (which I think it's in another state)

They've made a point that the cities are about 800 miles away, if my memory of that train that was going to connect them is correct.  (And if they ever fixed it, that's how they could get there.)

[KirkB]

Ray's last base of operations seems to be Star City (that is where the company he gave Felicity is after all). It's Sara's home, of course. So they're fine. As for the others, Mick doesn't seem to have a home as such. He can rob whatever city he's in. As for the Hawks and Firestorm, well, if they need to get somewhere else like Central City they can all fly.

[Sakura12]

I keep forgetting about Ray. He's from Star City too. Mick went back to Central City to start thieving again, so that is his home. Stein and Jax are also from Central City. 

Rip also has a space ship that could've dropped Sara and Ray off in Star City and Mick, Stein and Jax in Central City.  Instead of being like I'm going to ditch you all in this one spot here, go find your own transportation back to your homes. 

Edited May 21, 2016 by Sakura12

[squidprincess]

He's not a taxi service.  :-)  Besides, he was only going to be able to pull the hologram trick once before they figured it out.

[Starfish35]

I forgot about Sara having to travel to Star City.  I was rewatching and I was wondering how it seemed like Ray, Mick, and Stein had several days, but Sara seemed like she was in the same day.  

I also noticed that it seemed like Kendra managed a change of clothes somewhere between the end of the last episode and this one.  :)

[KirkB]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I also noticed that it seemed like Kendra managed a change of clothes somewhere between the end of the last episode and this one.  :)

Savage probably did that while she was unconscious. Uggh. I just squicked myself out thinking about that.