S04.E06: The Scandal of Altruism

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

[Valny]

From TVGUIDE.com

Cosima admits doubt about finding a cure,which causes Sarah to make a drastic decision that exposes Kendall to people she is trying to hide from. Elsewhere, Art and Felix try to protect Krystal Godderitch from herself.

 

 

Why the hell doesn't the BBCA site have an ep description up there? *grumble*  Oh well, thank you TVGuide.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I KNOW! It drives me crazy when the network airing the show doesn't have the episode description anywhere! And if TV Guide has it, they must have gotten it from them so it makes no sense for BBC America not to have it. And this happens EVERY WEEK. [/cranky]

[Primetimer]

But the outcome is one that someone else Chos.

View the full article

[Valny]

That was intense ending. I still don't know if I believe that Delphine is really dead, despite what Evie said to Cosima. But I'd rather it be true just to finally get some closure. (sorry Delphine fans).

There were distractions going on beyond my control while I was watching, so why did they have to kill Kendall?

That was rough man.

Quote of this season so far just may be:

Art: :Krystal thinks Vidal Sassoon is after her." I laughed out loud with that one.

The actress playing Evie I hate to say it, but the scene with Beth in the car, that where I really noticed her not so great acting ability... or maybe it just acting against TM. I don't know, she just seemed so bland in a tense situation.

Loved Felix's detectiveware, the Sherlock Holmes hat was pretty funny.(was that a Holmes hat wasn't it?)

I've seen enough Susan/Ira scenes thank you very much. At least that beginning one was a post bedroom scene.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Valny
damn autocorrects!

[placate]

20 minutes ago, Valny said:

That was intense ending. I still don't know if I believe that Delhine is really dead, despite what Eve said to Colima. But I'd rather it be true just to finally get some closure. (sorry Dolphins fans).

There were distractions going on beyond my control while I was watching, so why did they have to kill Kendall?

Evie wants to work with on the Brightborn stuff but Susan is hung up on the clones. I agree about Delphine. I don't think they'd kill her off screen. She's probably been genetic engineered into something she doesn't recognize as Delphine.

At this point, they should really bring Krystal into clone club. She keeps stumbling in their activities anyways.

Where the hell is Helena?

Edited May 20, 2016 by placate

[Valny]

Quote

 

Where the hell is Helena?

 

For a moment, I actually was expecting her to come in and save the day at the end.

[Glade]

That was intense.  I kept thinking at the end, maybe there's some dna in her shoes that are sticking out of the fire?    I was genuinely afraid they were going to kill Cosima as well.  Krystal 'saw the whole thing' but only said that Delphine had been shot--not that she died, so we'll see.  Maybe by season 8 the actress will be available again.

I really hated how Sarah insisted that there could be no cure for castor.  Wasn't Mark your friend, an ally, your brother?  Why isn't it possible to save the lives of Mark and Ira but neutralize the 'weapon' in their dna?  And maybe cure Gracie too and the other women affected thus far...I thought it was all the same disease between leda and castor anyway?   It's a cruel death of imagination to doom them.   I like Ira, unlike Rachel's sexist bullshit about ""real men"" I think he's a worthwhile person and an interesting character to explore.  He and Mark deserve to live.

Some of the most powerful material for this season has been Beth, I'm so glad they brought her back. 

[Gulftastic]

Wow. What a downer of an episode. In a good way, in that they have to get so dark so our heroines can win through in the end. I too was terrified Cosima was going to get a bullet in the head when she was on her knees. I also thought that she was going to use the worm she purloined from Eva's desk after it's extraction.

Please don't let Delphine be dead. And can we have Shay back?

They need to induct Krystal into the Sestrahood. It was hilarious when she maced Inspector Felix. She surely won't be satisfied with the BS they've spun her, and now Eve and co. consider the clones obselete, will she be in more danger?

[Kaboom 2.0]

Can Krystal, as much as I heart her, be able to handle being inducted into Clone Club though? I really missed Alison and Donnie but I know we can't have every sestra in every episode for reasons. At least Adele and her horrible accent are gone. Fee + Art + Krystal = GOLD. I really thought that damn Duko, whom I cannot WAIT to see die, was going to kill Cosima too. I agree with the description of last night's episode end as a downer, Kendall was dying anyway but the way she was killed, and forcing Cosima to watch, was just horrible. I really hope it's Sarah that finishes the beatdown on Evie Cho that Beth started.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Holy shit, I did not expect to see Kendall killed in cold blood (at least not this early in the season). I know she was going to die eventually since she had leukemia, but she should have died in a bed surrounded by Siobhan, Felix, Sarah, and Kira, not shot in the head in the back of a van and set on fire.

But she was steel right up to the end, telling Cosima that these assholes weren't worth the salt in her tears and then telling Cosima to turn around so she wouldn't have to see it happen. I know that Kendall didn't know the clones very long, but it seemed that Cosima was the clone who spent the most time with her while they were hiding out downstairs, so I think on a personal level she was the one who would feel Kendall's death the most acutely (and that's even before you take into account the fact that Cosima is the one who is sick and needed Kendall's DNA for the cure the most urgently).

I was surprised that Evie let Cosima live. I thought that her next step would be wiping out the remaining clones. So what does Evie have on Duko that has him all twisted up? He said he has to protect the ones he loves so I'm assuming she's threatening his family? Or maybe his kid has some kind of disease that Evie promised to cure if he follows her orders?

I was actually very wary when Susan asked Ira to bring her a hard drive for all of Cosima's research. I am just paranoid like that though. So when it turned out that the drive destroyed everything on their system, I was disappointed that my paranoia was justified.

Loved Inspector Felix and Krystal, but I hate that they are keeping her in the dark. I understand it to an extent, but it makes me feel sorry for her because she really believes her theory, but also because she's missing out on having the support of the others. It's hard enough to dig around into a conspiracy but it's lonely having no one as a support system. Maybe if she had that kind of support and understanding, she wouldn't be blabbing her theories to everyone she meets. On top of that, I feel like they're going to end up bringing her in eventually and then she's just going to feel betrayed that they deliberately kept her out of the loop and lied to her.

Mr. EB has a silly (joke) theory that everyone with the same last name is somehow related, so during this episode I decided that Art Bell is a long lost brother or cousin of Marcus Bell on Elementary. I mean, they have the same last name and they're both cops so they MUST be related, right? I'd love to have them sit down and talk about all the crazy things they have been dealing with the last few years over a cup of coffee. "You think Sherlock is up to some crazy shit? I have CLONES running all over the place!"

[godonlyknows]

What did Susan mean when she was talking about Beth's dad and said "they screened for tendencies like that"? Also, why the blonde wig?

I love that Cosima has had more screen-time in the last couple of episodes but she only has to tear up now and she breaks my heart. Now with Kendall and Delphine dead (though I'm still holding out hope for Delphine)  the next few episodes are going to be as rough as that final scene by the van.

I need Donnie and Helena back to lighten the mood and I really hope Krystal joins clone club.

Also no way in hell do I believe that Scott and Cosima never made a backup of their research (especially after last time when one copy of Island of Dr Moreau wasn't enough) or screened for viruses before connecting Ira's hard drive nor do I believe they don't have samples of Kendall/her white blood cells separate for the ones they collected for Susan.

[Gulftastic]

12 minutes ago, godonlyknows said:

What did Susan mean when she was talking about Beth's dad and said "they screened for tendencies like that"? Also, why the blonde wig?

 

I assume the wig was so she could get close to Susan without being recognised. The remark about tendancies seems to hint towards abuse of some kind in Beths childhood.

[Lady Calypso]

I'm pretty sure Delphine isn't dead. They would never kill off a main character just like that. Krystal never even said that she was dead, and I can see Evie either lying to Cosima even further to evoke fear into Cosima to stop trying, or she truly thinks Delphine is dead but she was saved last minute by someone. Either way, I expect to see her back, hopefully at some point this season. 

I didn't miss Helena, but she's always been my least favourite clone. I was also ok with no Alison or Donnie. This episode was too serious to need them, sad to say. I mean, I guess we did have Krystal, Felix and Art to lighten up the episode. Also really happy that Adele is gone. Now that she is, Felix got to get back in on the action.

I think Krystal is going to get herself in trouble if they continue to keep lying to her. She may turn out useful for them, for all they know. I mean, she apparently knows what happened to Delphine. I do think she'll have to be brought into Clone Club eventually, but it's just a matter of when and under what circumstances.

 I also didn't really care of Ira, but I guess him being alive means he'll still pop by at some point. I also miss Mark (maybe not Gracie) so I'm wondering if he's going to be coming back this season or not. 

I never liked Kendall, but her death scene was heartbreaking. Cosima is by far my favourite clone, so having her have to watch Kendall die, followed by hearing that Delphine was dead, made the scene so heartbreaking. Supposedly, the only chance of survival for the clones is gone. I can possibly buy that Scott and Cosima didn't have backups, but it feels off that they didn't have extra files stores elsewhere, or extra blood from Kendall. 

So, Beth is truly dead. I guess it's pretty much official that Beth killed herself to protect her sisters, except that it didn't quite work out the way she planned. 

Sarah has the bot out of her face, at least. But it looks like this season is the season of self destruction for Sarah. I don't imagine she's going to fare very well with Kendall's death, mostly because I think Siobhan is not going to be happy with her. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

What did Susan mean when she was talking about Beth's dad and said "they screened for tendencies like that"?

I assumed that Beth was abused by her father. I could see him being physically violent and that inspiring her to become a cop.

[TaraS1]

I didn't really like or care about Kendall for the most part, but that was just brutal to watch.  It kind of depresses me for the rest of the season, knowing that the fallout for so many characters we love - Cosima, Sarah, S, etc. -  is going to be even more painful.

And I agree with @Valny about the actress playing Evie.  Her acting completely took me out of what was otherwise such an intense scene with Beth.

[Not Beth]

That episode was intense.

Missed Alison and Donnie, but they wouldn't have worked in such an episode. Completely didn't realise Helena wasn't even in it until someone mentioned it above. I think she may be back to being my least favourite clone.

That ending. Oh my gosh. :( Kendall was strong until the end. And Cosima, don't cry. Not only did Cosima have to watch (or turn her back to) someone she had become quite close to get shot and then burnt, but she had to come to the realisation that she had lost her most likely chances of finding a cure. And not just that, but I'm sure she feels responsible for Kendall's death, since it's Cosima that had Sarah go behind S's back to bring Kendall out of hiding. :(

And we finally have a resolution on why Beth killed herself. :(

And also we're closer to finding out who shot Delphine! Perhaps we'll get flashbacks to those scenes as well, please? Flashbacks to seeing who did the shooting. Even if it's just from Krystal's point of view.

[Cranberry]

3 hours ago, godonlyknows said:

What did Susan mean when she was talking about Beth's dad and said "they screened for tendencies like that"?

 

2 hours ago, Gulftastic said:

The remark about tendancies seems to hint towards abuse of some kind in Beths childhood.

It could have been that, for sure, but my first thought was that he'd committed suicide and the apology meant, "Sorry you lost your dad."

[godonlyknows]

41 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

It could have been that, for sure, but my first thought was that he'd committed suicide and the apology meant, "Sorry you lost your dad."

Thanks everyone for your replies - I assumed it meant abuse too but wasn't sure if anything had been stated more explicitly somewhere else before. I doubt Beth's dad committed suicide as Evie still threatened her with "her parents" so I assume they're both still around. Which makes me wonder where are they? I'd assume they'd want to know why their daughter jumped in front of a train and how the body was mis-identified. And where are Cosima's parents? She's gonna need some hugs next week.

Tat's acting on this show is amazing and I love this show to pieces but I need to quit questioning everything and just enjoy the illogical mess.

[natyxg]

Well this episode was awesome. The best one since last season's finale. I really like Susan and the approach that she does care about Leda. I at first didn't see the point in bringing back Beth, but, man, they made it work, and certainly turned her into a hero. I loved it.

The weakest point, I thought, was Evie Cho. I think the actress is not that great, though I do like the character. Her reactions implied to me that she's not a psychopath evil person, but that she does what she thinks she has to to move the science that she thinks is best forward. She's still a villain, but she didn't seem to enjoy killing Kendall and remembered Beth with a somber face, for example. I think giving her that background, that she was a very sick child, was a good idea. Still, it's a pity that the actress is kinda meh.

I loved the episode because it brought so many emotional highs, but I was a bit irked by some things that I found hard to believe. Like, Scott and Cosima didn't back up their stuff anywhere? Really? Also, I'm supposed to believe there is not a single speck of Kendall DNA anywhere? Really? No one thought to keep a spare vial somewhere? She didn't wipe her nose and leave a tissue around? O a cigarette butt in the trash? COME ON. Or does it have to be a certain quantity of blood for it to work?

I imagine that Delphine is alive, otherwise they wouldn't have given us Krystal as a witness. I imagine she saw something that may lead to Delphine or something, even if at first they all think she's dead in spite of what Krystal told them.

There is still Duncan's book around, right? Did someone have a copy? I don't even remember anymore. But maybe that will be the key. I hope Rachel works with Sarah's people to decipher it, hoping to help cure Charlotte, who she probably sees as her daughter. I can't wait for her to be fully healed, too. She has to be by season's end, no? *fingers crossed* I'm looking forward to see Rachel being bad ass again, and hopefully with some more depth thanks to the ordeal.

[Lugal]

That was intense.  I'm hoping Cosima and Scott had some backups at least. I also don't believe Delphine is dead, at least it won't be mentioned as an offhand remark for an event that occurred offscreen.

Will Susan be working with them now.  The Clone Club is gathering a rather interesting group of allies.

And Evie, you thought Beth pistol-whipping you was bad, wait until Sarah and Helena get hold of you.

[Cyranetta]

Coincidence, maybe, but it seems like the two blonde clones are wild cards - Helena in a feral way (and I was sort of hoping she would show up during Kendall's death scene to wreak some vengeance, if not save Kendall and Cosima) and Crystal in a sort of accidental way, since she's not clued-in (interesting parallel that both are the two most likely to launch a physical attack). Maybe down the line it will require wild cards to defeat superpowerful but rigid organizations.

Since it's been established that Kira's empathic with the clones, she's going to be bearing a lot of emotional weight, especially since all of the clones will likely be even more paranoid (with good reason).

[angora]

Why does is it that stuff that could potentially help cure Cosima is always used as a bargaining chip for something going on between other people?  Sarah dumping bleach on those samples reminded me of Rachel destroying the bone marrow from Kira at the end of season 2.  Obviously, Sarah didn't know that they were about to lose Kendall (as well as not knowing that Susan wasn't actually responsible,) but I didn't know that either and I was still yelling, "No!!!  Cosima needs that!"

I don't mind the tensions between Felix and Sarah this season, because I think it's a long time coming and I like Felix any way I can take him, but he's always so much better when he's involved in Clone Club stuff.  He and Donnie undercover at Brightborn a few weeks ago was terrific, and he was loads of fun with Art and Krystal.

[Triskan]

Woooow, that was brutal... and intense ! 

Not much to add to what has already been said above (and I need a few more time to digest the episode)... 

For a few seconds there, I thought it was Rachel behind the coup before putting pieces together... but I really love Rachel's character, she fascinates me. I hope to see her again soon and that she'll get to do more in the season ! 

[MissL]

7 hours ago, Lugal said:

And Evie, you thought Beth pistol-whipping you was bad, wait until Sarah and Helena get hold of you.

Actually I think she'd better be worried about S. She's pretty badass herself and once the tears are done she'll want the blood of the woman who murdered her mother. 

[shapeshifter]

As good as all the bits mentioned upthread were, if every episode was as dark as this one, it's not a show I would watch.

[godonlyknows]

Is Cosima's new lab and the safe house the same place - the basement of the comic shop? If so, why are she and Sarah skyping each other?

[Not Beth]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

As good as all the bits mentioned upthread were, if every episode was as dark as this one, it's not a show I would watch.

Definitely agree with this.

I don't watch the previews or sneak peeks for the following week 's episodes, but I'm waiting on the comedic, light episode that Alison and Donnie normally provide late each season. Which we could definitely do with after this very serious episode.

[Valny]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 2:32 AM, Glade said:

I was genuinely afraid they were going to kill Cosima as well.  Krystal 'saw the whole thing' but only said that Delphine had been shot--not that she died, so we'll see.  Maybe by season 8 the actress will be available again.

For just a few seconds, it went through my mind also they might end Cosima, but I always come back to the realization, the writers just wouldn't have the guts to do that to one of their core four, for whatever reasons. I just can't see them doing that. Now if Joss Whedon was writing, then anyone's game. Fan reaction be damned!(which is fine)
And Krystal's line about seeing Delphine shot, that really came as a surprise and I hope we get the follow up to that next week because... huh? How? She never was in my radar as someone who would know or provide any info about that. And yeah, it's interesting that she didn't specifically say she died as Evie proclaimed. So I'm still believing she's not dead. For some reason, I can see where the writers would keep the episode in their pockets where they'd have some sort of grand reunion scene with Cosima which would have the couple's fans losing their minds.I guess just depends if the actress is available down the road.

Quote

 

I don't watch the previews or sneak peeks for the following week 's episodes

 

Well I won't spoil it for you Not Beth, but it pretty much looks like

poor Cosima is going to go through some type of PTDS and Sarah is probably so guilt ridden she may be doing some self destruction with tons of drinking, wildness, eff-it attitude,etc.

. I really want to see how Mrs. S deals with her "chickens"... mainly Sarah of course. It's not gonna be pretty I'd wager. I forgot her exact line to Sarah, but it was something like, "you dragged my mother into this, you better get her out."    Oh shite!  

[Captanne]

My memory isn't what it used to be -- Delphine's shooting was a classic "camera-eye view with the shooter behind us and looking at Delphine in a deserted parking lot".  Right?  It's been done a million times before.  

Where was Krystal to witness this?

[Loandbehold]

IIRC, the shooting took place in a parking garage, so Krystal could have been behind the shooter (our viewpoint could have been hers).

The episode was very dark, but still we had the Krystal-Art-Felix scene. I think it would be hysterical if Krystal was right and some cosmetics company was actually funding Neolution. (Should that go in the "Speculation" thread?)

[Captanne]

So my memory is correct -- but the point is, the parking garage was clearly deserted.  Where would a boppy blonde beautician* fit into that scene with any logic?  (And go un-noticed.)

I was baffled by her comment to Art and Felix.

 

*One who is so constantly mentioned as naive to the clone conspiracy that it's a) boring (we get it; she's not in on the game) and b) repetitive.  What would a Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader Beautician be doing in the Dyad deserted underground parking lot watching the very head of Dyad get assassinated by a lone gunman?  It strains belief.  At least it strains mine.  I look forward to an explanation.

 

ETA:  This is mainly a schmaltzy mash-up but it has the death scene in it (cut up a bit) -- where, exactly, does Krystal fit in this scene?  Unless she is the shooter (which will take some explaining), I just don't see it.  (Or Krystal is talking about another shooting if Delphine survived the first one.)  

EETA:  I'd forgotten how romantic Delphine and Cosima were.  

Edited May 21, 2016 by Captanne

[MissLucas]

Not my favorite episode by a stretch. I thought it would at least confirm Kira's precog abilities since I dimly remembered one of her dreams being about someone being set to flames - yet her dream was somewhat different:

- Yeah? - I was dreaming.
- Just now? - All the aunties were there.
You set Mom on fire.
You know we'd never do that, right? No.
You had to.
She was changing.
How was she changing? I don't know.
I couldn't see.

So either Kira's dreams need some severe fine-tuning or the show's not done with burning folks. And speaking of Kira - where was she during this episode?

I'm a bit struggling with the show revealing a new big bad wolf for every season - they seem to be stacked inside each other like Matryoshkas: Neolution, Dyad (with the Proletheans as sideshow), Leda (and Castor) and now Brightborn. And speaking of repetitive elements - once again Helena's being separated from everybody else. At least this time it's not abduction by an evil cult or evil military - at least I hope so, we haven't heard from her in a while.

[maczero]

So why did Kendall have to die? 

I have mixed feelings about Krystal joining the clone club.  I really like Krystal.  She may seem ditzy but she's clever enough to put together her own conspiracy theory that isn't too far off base.  She's also proactive.  I really like that she's taking self defense courses so she won't feel like a victim.  And the biggest plus for having Krystal join clone club is that it gives the audience a regular dose of Tatiana in skin tight outfits.  That said I don't want her in the club because it puts a target on her head for no good reason.  Despite my liking Krystal, she brings nothing to the group.  She's not a scientist, detective, killer or a spy so why endanger/burden this poor woman with this stuff when she doesn't have much to contribute.  

I may be in the minority on this but I think the series picked the wrong clone to focus on.  This really should've been Beth's story not Sarah's.  Sarah to me seems like the kind of person who would've run away from all this the moment she found out.  My version of the series would have had Beth as the lead and given her elements of Sarah's life (S & Felix).

[ganesh]

On 5/20/2016 at 2:18 PM, Lugal said:

That was intense.  I'm hoping Cosima and Scott had some backups at least.

I don't do nearly as much important research as Cosima and Scott by a long shot, and my stuff is backed up in triplicate. At the worst, I'd only lose a few days of stuff. If they didn't back anything up with a 2nd or 3rd drive that's just ridiculous. 

[MissLucas]

Yeah, Cosima and Scott not having any backups just won't wash. They must have backups out of reach of the virus installed by Brighborn's hard-drive. After all the craziness they've been through they should be close to MK's level of paranoid.

I'm not that big a fan of Krystal or rather the writing of the character. She's smart enough to notice the weirdness in her life, keeping track of things in her notebook and doing research in order to come up with a theory that isn't that as far fetched as all the other characters pretend it to be - and the next moment she does not know what Scotland Yard is. The writers are having a tad too much fun with her ditzyness.

[ganesh]

I get the point that you can't use those systems anymore for research because they're compromised, but the actual data Cosima handed over should have been backed up at the time. 

[kieyra]

2 hours ago, maczero said:

So why did Kendall have to die? 

I have mixed feelings about Krystal joining the clone club.  I really like Krystal.  She may seem ditzy but she's clever enough to put together her own conspiracy theory that isn't too far off base.  She's also proactive.  I really like that she's taking self defense courses so she won't feel like a victim.  And the biggest plus for having Krystal join clone club is that it gives the audience a regular dose of Tatiana in skin tight outfits.  That said I don't want her in the club because it puts a target on her head for no good reason.  Despite my liking Krystal, she brings nothing to the group.  She's not a scientist, detective, killer or a spy so why endanger/burden this poor woman with this stuff when she doesn't have much to contribute.  

I may be in the minority on this but I think the series picked the wrong clone to focus on.  This really should've been Beth's story not Sarah's.  Sarah to me seems like the kind of person who would've run away from all this the moment she found out.  My version of the series would have had Beth as the lead and given her elements of Sarah's life (S & Felix).

I guess my only devil's advocate counterpoint to the idea of a Beth-centric premise is that there would be potential audience/network expectations for the show to stick to some sort of crime procedural framework, at least as long as Beth remained employed as a cop. And this show would collapse under the additional weight of a "cop plot of the week" element. 

(I know it wouldn't HAVE to be that way, but I could see the expectations being there. I was so relieved when it turned out Sarah wasn't going to go on being a pretend cop back in S1.)

[maczero]

12 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I guess my only devil's advocate counterpoint to the idea of a Beth-centric premise is that there would be potential audience/network expectations for the show to stick to some sort of crime procedural framework, at least as long as Beth remained employed as a cop. And this show would collapse under the additional weight of a "cop plot of the week" element. 

(I know it wouldn't HAVE to be that way, but I could see the expectations being there. I was so relieved when it turned out Sarah wasn't going to go on being a pretend cop back in S1.)

In my Beth-centric Orphan Black, Beth would've left the force because she felt the department was another part of her life compromised by the Neolutionists. Truth be told, my version wouldn't differ too much from what we have.  I like the storylines.  I just would just swap Sarah for Beth.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Yeah, Cosima and Scott not having any backups just won't wash. They must have backups out of reach of the virus installed by Brighborn's hard-drive. After all the craziness they've been through they should be close to MK's level of paranoid.

I'm not that big a fan of Krystal or rather the writing of the character. She's smart enough to notice the weirdness in her life, keeping track of things in her notebook and doing research in order to come up with a theory that isn't that as far fetched as all the other characters pretend it to be - and the next moment she does not know what Scotland Yard is.

The writers are having a tad too much fun with her ditzyness.

Speaking of Devil's Advocates...
Regarding the idea that Cosima and Scott should have learned from experience about having backups: I agree that they should have learned this lesson from the book disaster, but often humans do repeat their mistakes, so if there is no backup, I just ask that someone chastise them for not having learned from the book incident. 

As for inconsistancies in Krystal's ditzyness: I don't think it's impossible, for example, that she would be unfamiliar with Scotland Yard. Unlikely, yes, but not impossible. Often people have surprising gaps in knowledge due to cultural frameworks, lack of formal higher  education, etc.

2 hours ago, maczero said:

In my Beth-centric Orphan Black, Beth would've left the force because she felt the department was another part of her life compromised by the Neolutionists. Truth be told, my version wouldn't differ too much from what we have.  I like the storylines.  I just would just swap Sarah for Beth.

And as for Beth being the protagonist/main charcter rather than Sarah...
I would have totally agreed with this until this episode. Now I can appreciate the sacrifice Beth made by throwing herself onto the tracks, and though it may have been ultimately wrong headed, it's a dramatic point that I wouldn't want lost. 
ETA: If Beth did survive to be the main character, I could happily imagine an Orphan Black in which Beth continues with her police job, and there was a COTW as well as Clone Club. It might have even given the show a wider audience.

Edited May 22, 2016 by shapeshifter

[Not Beth]

Maybe it's just because it's the expression that TM gives in such a sorrowful situation, but I felt like the way Sarah looked at S in the sad montage at the end reminded me of the look Beth gives Sarah in the pilot before the train incident. Maybe it's a look of total despair or "I was only trying to help you/us, but it's all gone so wrong ".

[thuganomics85]

Yikes, this was a pretty dark and depressing episode.  Granted, no Alison or Donnie tends to mean the comic relief is automatically decreased by 75%, so I guess that isn't too surprising.

So, basically Susan; who while might have been shady, seem to care about the Clones on some levels; has just got overthrown by Brightborn and Evie, and Evie is the main antagonist now.  And she's already kicked things off by killing Kendal, which pretty much screws up everything.  I'm kind of surprised she let Cosima live for now, but maybe she simply thinks Cosima is doomed anyway, and doesn't really consider her a threat.  But I'm sure whatever plan Evie has in store, isn't going to be pretty.

At long last, we find out the reason why Beth jumped in front of that train.  Basically because Evie claimed that all of her sisters, friends, family, etc. would always be in danger, as long as Beth knew what she knew about Neolution.  So, that's why Beth did it.  Bummer.

If neither Cosima or Scott backed up any of their files, then I kind of do find myself questioning their intelligence.

At least Krystal and Felix provided some laughs, even if it was at the expense of Felix's eyes.  Also loved Art's involvement with the trio.  Reminded me of when he had to babysit Helena.  It's always fun when Art gets stuck with one of the loopier clones.

Despite what Evie said, I so think Delphine will end up being alive.  I do believe she got shot, but she ain't dead.  Not sure what to make of Krystal's claims that she saw it.  Was she hiding in the parking lot for some reason?  And will she actually tell them who shot her?  Does she even know who it was?  So many questions....

Hey, a Shay mention!  I wonder if she'll ever return.

Really curious to see where this goes now.  The game has been changed, and I really have no clue what Sarah's next move will be.

[MissLucas]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Speaking of Devil's Advocates...
Regarding the idea that Cosima and Scott should have learned from experience about having backups: I agree that they should have learned this lesson from the book disaster, but often humans do repeat their mistakes, so if there is no backup, I just ask that someone chastise them for not having learned from the book incident. 

 

Cosima and Scott are not 'normal' humans who are often sloppy with their backup routine. They're supposed to be the scientific brains of the operation. They've already been burned AND losing their data does not simply mean pissing off their boss or losing the chance to become the new GRMM - for Cosima at least that data is her best option to survive and make sure her sisters have a chance to survive too (only Helena and Sarah are not affected by the 'glitch' - Allison, Krystal, MK, Tony etc. are all in jeopardy). So if they really have no backups then that's not so much them behaving realistically but rather the writers trying to reset the plot at the cost of consistent characterization. And I really hope the show's not going there.

[Captanne]

The "Krystal saw Delphine get shot" is certainly a re-set unless they explain what Krystal is talking about -- either hiding there, she was the shooter, or that she's referring to a later shooting.

1.  In the video it's clear the parking lot is deserted so the "she's hiding" doesn't make sense other than as a retcon.

2.  If she's the shooter, why does Delphine ask her "Will she be okay?"  Delphine is robably referring to Cosima -- why would Krystal know and why would Delphine, the Head of Dyad, ask a clone who is not aware?

3.  Possibly in reference to a later shooting, but that is so strained.  It's the plot choice I would make, out of the three, though.

[Mabinogia]

I have no problem with Krystal having been in the parking garage at the time of the shooting. We didn't see the entire parking garage when the shot took place. She could have shown up right as it happened and bolted when she heard the shot. She could have shown up moments after and seen the body. We don't know the entire garage was completely empty unless I'm forgetting some shot that did a 360 of the garage before, during and after the shooting. I would have a much bigger problem with Krystal being the shooter because why would she admit being there if she was the one who did it, or there being a second shooting because come on, that's the stupidest thing ever. What, they failed to kill her that time, left her there and later killed her in another location? That makes less sense than Scott and Cosima not having backup data.

On that, I'm going to assume they have backup data on the actual data but possibly not on their latest breakthrough. Otherwise, they are too dumb to be scientists. Hell, I am just an amateur fiction writer and cell phone picture taker and I backup my documents and photos every time I update my computer, just in case. And, though I'd be heartbroken, the loss of my data wouldn't mean inevitable death for me, like it does for Cosima. I wish they had found a way to still have them lose the data without looking like idiots for not backing it up, like, IDK blowing up the safe house. It would be less head scratchy for me if they had back up but didn't think to remove it from the building no one is supposed to know they are in.

As dark as this ep was. I loved it! I get the desire for some lighter moments with Krystal's capers, but I wish they hadn't because it kept taking me out of the intensity of the other storyline.

[Captanne]

But what would Krystal have been doing in that Dyad deserted parking lot at night?  Was she even in Toronto?  She's a beautician -- was she returning from an emergency, in-office executive manicure?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I have no problem with Krystal having been in the parking garage at the time of the shooting. We didn't see the entire parking garage when the shot took place. She could have shown up right as it happened and bolted when she heard the shot. She could have shown up moments after and seen the body. We don't know the entire garage was completely empty unless I'm forgetting some shot that did a 360 of the garage before, during and after the shooting. I would have a much bigger problem with Krystal being the shooter because why would she admit being there if she was the one who did it, or there being a second shooting because come on, that's the stupidest thing ever. What, they failed to kill her that time, left her there and later killed her in another location? That makes less sense than Scott and Cosima not having backup data.

On that, I'm going to assume they have backup data on the actual data but possibly not on their latest breakthrough. Otherwise, they are too dumb to be scientists. Hell, I am just an amateur fiction writer and cell phone picture taker and I backup my documents and photos every time I update my computer, just in case. And, though I'd be heartbroken, the loss of my data wouldn't mean inevitable death for me, like it does for Cosima. I wish they had found a way to still have them lose the data without looking like idiots for not backing it up, like, IDK blowing up the safe house. It would be less head scratchy for me if they had back up but didn't think to remove it from the building no one is supposed to know they are in.

As dark as this ep was. I loved it! I get the desire for some lighter moments with Krystal's capers, but I wish they hadn't because it kept taking me out of the intensity of the other storyline.

Back in the pre-cloud, pre-flash drive 90s, I had a website that was backed up on the domain's server, on my personal hard drive, and on the hard drive of my work computer. Within a few days, the IT guy at work decided to wipe my hard drive, my home computer's hard drive crashed and the data was not able to be retrieved, and the website company accidentally removed my site.
So, if the writers want to use my experience as a template for what happens to Cosima and Scott's work, feel free; but I'm guessing the episode with the explanation is already in the can.

Note: The website company was able to retrieve a two-week-old version of my site, and I still have some old CD backups of it generated shortly thereafter (as well as on several computers and servers and an external drive at my work office in case my apartment burns down). 
 

Edited May 22, 2016 by shapeshifter

[godonlyknows]

1 hour ago, Captanne said:

But what would Krystal have been doing in that Dyad deserted parking lot at night?  Was she even in Toronto?  She's a beautician -- was she returning from an emergency, in-office executive manicure?

She'd just been rescued from Dyad by Delphine - Nealon had kidnapped her and swapped her out for Rachel.

[Macbeth]

When Krystal said she was there when Delphine was shot - I immediately thought she did the shooting, given the homicidal tendencies of a couple of clones.  It doesn't make that she would be a witness - why wasn't she killed.  So I guess she hid somewhere.

So Felix's shtick (I do love his shtick) as a clone whisperer didn't work with Krystal as he wasn't being honest.  You know better than that Felix.