S05.E20: Bad Night

[formerlyfreedom]

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Nick leans on Monroe and Rosalee as he worries that he may lose everything as he continues to battle Black Claw.  Captain Renard ramps up his campaign as election day nears.  Elsewhere, Adalind is faced with a very difficult decision in order to protect her children.  Meanwhile, Hank's relationship with Zuri takes an unexpected turn and Sargeant Wu tries to gain control of his new reality.

 

[merylinkid]

Wait, what?   Adalind and kinder were supposed to be Renard's "family" so voters would like him better.   But they wait until the victory speech to introduce her?   Umm, clearly he didn't need a family to get elected.   Also, mayoral candidate just up and moves the day before the election and no one notices.   He doesn't have to be anywhere for last minute campaigning?   

And Nick is a moron.  He goes to his boss' house with a GUN.   Yeah, that would work.   Don't even get me started on he wouldn't be able to get his son back.   Go to court, file an emergency motion for custody saying Mom clearly is being coerced to take his child away from him.   Boom, insta custody.   He's the FATHER.  He has rights.  

But then we wouldn't have Julieve and Nick bonding over kids.   Ick.   

Just this whole thing is ridiculous.   This show does not do Major. Story. Big. Arc. well at all.

[TVSpectator]

I barely bothered watching this episode (the Pens are playing against TB), but the parts that I did see were weird. I was thinking, why is an international Wesen terrorist organization so interested in Portland, OR's mayoral election? This has never been answered and the Pens are losing :( .

[ShadowFacts]

Well, at least Nick is awakened out of his stupor.  But it was comical how he kept getting asked if Renard was still alive -- like, yeah, he would kill his boss the police captain/mayoral candidate, and just get his baby back later and be on his merry way.  Also comical how he said a couple times that Adalind left him.  Boo hoo. 

There was a real comic book, melodramatic tone to this episode that was jarringly stupid.  I mean, Hank, Wu, and Monroe and Rosalee were their usual selves, mostly, but all of the Renard family and Meisner-Trubel-Eve dialogue was stilted and goofy. 

[HunterHunted]

11 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Wait, what?   Adalind and kinder were supposed to be Renard's "family" so voters would like him better.   But they wait until the victory speech to introduce her?   Umm, clearly he didn't need a family to get elected.   Also, mayoral candidate just up and moves the day before the election and no one notices.   He doesn't have to be anywhere for last minute campaigning?   

And Nick is a moron.  He goes to his boss' house with a GUN.   Yeah, that would work.   Don't even get me started on he wouldn't be able to get his son back.   Go to court, file an emergency motion for custody saying Mom clearly is being coerced to take his child away from him.   Boom, insta custody.   He's the FATHER.  He has rights.  

But then we wouldn't have Julieve and Nick bonding over kids.   Ick.   

Just this whole thing is ridiculous.   This show does not do Major. Story. Big. Arc. well at all.

This Black Claw plot is terrible. Yes, for Adalind and the kids to make a difference in the election, they needed to show up way before election day during his victory speech. Black Claw's master plan of putting sympathetic Wesen in positions of power isn't much different from what the Royals and Wesen Council did. Finally, if all of the people in power are Wesen, we're just going to end up in a civil war when the Wesen start revealing each other. Seriously, it's just going to result in another French Revolution.

The smarter play would be to have both the Wesen Council and the Royals killed and treat the Wesen coming out like we treat the coming out of gay celebrities. Have a prominent and beloved Wesen, whose woge is cute or non threatening, reveal themselves, do an interview with Barbara Walters, have the Wesen write book, and star in a reality show. Slowly start having other prominent Wesen reveal themselves: legislators, more celebrities, doctors, athletes, business people, and ministers. Basically get it to a point where where it is with LGB people coming out now; often uncomfortable, but a much reduced chance of it ending in violence. But if you do it gradually and smartly in less than 30 years time, Wesen could be in power, able to live openly, and with enough power craft legislation and laws that support the Wesen world.

[officetemp]

The only encouraging thing about this episode for me was Diana's obvious dislike of Renard's campaign organizer woman/paramour.  I hope Diana gets rid of this annoying character soon.

Agree that this episode was really stupid.  And why was Wu absent for so much of it?

Kind of surprised that Adalind didn't seem concerned that Diana may be jealous of Baby Grimm Kelly.  After all, every minute that Adalind pays attention to Kelly is a minute that she's not paying attention to Diana.

[placate]

I can't believe that Renard drank the kool-aid.  I thought he was infiltrating them but now he's totally fine with wesens toppling society.  I'm still very curious how Diane got into black claw's hands when we last saw her with Meisner.  I'm sure well never find out and there will be a cliffhanger next.

49 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

The smarter play would be to have both the Wesen Council and the Royals killed and treat the Wesen coming out like we treat the coming out of gay celebrities. Have a prominent and beloved Wesen, whose woge is cute or non threatening, reveal themselves, do an interview with Barbara Walters, have the Wesen write book, and star in a reality show. Slowly start having other prominent Wesen reveal themselves: legislators, more celebrities, doctors, athletes, business people, and ministers. Basically get it to a point where where it is with LGB people coming out now; often uncomfortable, but a much reduced chance of it ending in violence. But if you do it gradually and smartly in less than 30 years time, Wesen could be in power, able to live openly, and with enough power craft legislation and laws that support the Wesen world.

  Even if they had the most adorable wesens come out it doesn't change the fact that some wesen eat people.  I don't care about anyone's gender or sexuality but I do really care if I'm going to be potentially murdered.

[Enigma X]

This episode just made me stabby. So much stupid!

[Frozendiva]

Yay for Hank realizing that he has been played by Zuri. Yeah, it's not exactly fate that she would magically reappear in his life when the whole Black Claw thing is happening. The intruder? Her 'turning up the heat'? Why? Unless it is winter, you'd set the thermostat down for the night. Especially if you have a down duvet.

Perhaps some older voters would care if the new Mayor was not married or had a family. Politicians come in all shapes, sizes, and have all sorts of non-traditional families these days. Renard should be campaigning til the day before the election. And maybe have his people offer to take various folks to the polling stations. It's weird to have an election in May. The ones here are usually in October.

Nick, you really should keep the magic stick's hiding place to yourself or put the identity of its location in some safety deposit box. Yes, Trubel is also a Grimm, but she has been away for a while, and you really do not know whose side she is on.

Diana is a very powerful little girl. Adalind is well within her Hexenbiest sense to fear her and wonder what she is really up to. She's neither Mommy's nor Daddy's little girl. And she probably doesn't like her baby half-brother.

[HunterHunted]

6 minutes ago, placate said:

I can't believe that Renard drank the kool-aid.  I thought he was infiltrating them but now he's totally fine with wesens toppling society.  I'm still very curious how Diane got into black claw's hands when we last saw her with Meisner.  I'm sure well never find out and there will be a cliffhanger next.

 Even if they had the most adorable wesens come out it doesn't change the fact that some wesen eat people.  I don't care about anyone's gender or sexuality but I do really care if I'm going to be potentially murdered.

I can't believe I'm defending this show, but last episode Meisner and Trubel went to investigate the safehouse/foster family where Diana had been placed. The resistance clearly had some connection to the murdered family, but somehow Black Claw found her and killed her foster family.

The beauty of a controlled outing of Wesen is that you wait to reveal the really scary looking ones and the ones who eat people until it's far too late for the general public to object. If you're really smart, you sprinkle in some of those Wesen who are routinely victimized by humans like the seltenvogel who developed the golden egg in her neck, the naiad, or the gluhenvolk. First you introduce the cute and relatable ones, next you reveal the ones who might be victimized by humans, you start passing laws to protect Wesen, then you search for the perfect Wesen among the human killers. This would be the Wesen whose story is so sympathetic that you are inclined to overlook the fact that he or she is a human killer. This is something that a lot of civil rights lawyers do. While there are a ton of cases where people have had their rights violated, plaintiffs attorneys often only litigate the most sympathetic cases. That's what you would do with this situation.

You'd look for the perfect plaintiff who for the most part seemed like a great normal person and whose kills seemed like an accident or self defense. She's a terrible example, but Monroe's ex has killed a ton of people and most of her kills on the show have been self defense. If this wesen's situation is tragic and sympathetic enough, legislation would follow soon afterwards. By then, it's too late. And frankly even if they kill people, your average citizen doesn't pay a bit of attention to most potential legislation. Additionally if the legislation is long and technical enough, most news outlets will only use the talking points that you've written and never read the bill itself. It's not that difficult and if that political consultant had any skills or acumen, she'd already be working on some of that.

[neuromom]

 OK can Hank just get everybody lessons on how NOT to be stupid and gullible?  (I'm looking at you, Nick...) Not only did he figure out that Zuri  betrayed him, but he totally shut down Rosalie when she tried to give Zuri the benefit of the doubt.

"I don't believe in coincidences." You go, Hank! And then he let HW have her. 

Edited May 14, 2016 by neuromom

[ottilie]

I liked Tony coming back and being a hacker in addition to just a junkie. It isn't easy to hack, so it gives him some dimension of being a smart person who also has a dung beetle side to him that is hard to suppress. I give the actor points for good acting too, in his brief appearances.

  Hank had a good role because he was smart and figured out exactly what was going on.

I decided that Martin Meisner is probably just 'resistance', which is a group opposite the royalty. He's not a grimm or secret wesen or zauberbiest. The resistance are just crafty, ninjalike humans.

Renard is totally vulnerable because he now has intense media scrutiny and someone can easily do something to bring attention to him.  He isn't a dictator or strong mayor who can seize power or control things now... although he could appoint or fire certain staff. Although, come to think of it, perhaps is power is in the fact that black claw want wesen to come out of the closet, and he could threaten to have wesen do something conspicuous in front of the muggles while HW is trying to keep them in the closet.

BTW. the hedge is fake in the black claw house. The set designers brought it in to add atmosphere. Had the big black claw guy been living there all along or is it a long term rental?

Edited May 14, 2016 by ottilie

[icewolf]

What the hell are the writers doing to Renard? Damn.

The only way this storyline will make sense is Renard is secretly working with Nick and is a mole inside Black Claw, with plans to take that group down from the inside.

[GaT]

5 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Wait, what?   Adalind and kinder were supposed to be Renard's "family" so voters would like him better.   But they wait until the victory speech to introduce her?   Umm, clearly he didn't need a family to get elected.  

I wondered about this too, once he won, why do they need her? Unless it's to try & control Diana somehow, but she's obviously going to be out of control in the near future. All in all, this Black Claw plot sucks big time.

[thuganomics85]

Seriously, do these writers not understand how politics work?  Because from everything I've ever seen, the politicians family only matters during the actual campaign, not after!  So, what was the point of them desperately needing Adalind, if he ends not even needing her to win the mayoral election?  Are they saving her and the kids for bigger things, like him making a run for the governorship after a few years?  Because I can't make heads or tails of this damn thing.

So, Renard truly is down with the Black Claw and is basically fully bad, now?  Or am I still suppose to believe that Diana being their captor is effecting his decisions?  This is confusing me too, because I feel like one moment, he is asking one way, and then the next, he is completely different.

Nick, dude, I get being upset, but do you really think it would end well for you to just charge and maybe even kill Renard?  Even if you pull it off, good luck having a nice life with your kid, when the entire force and city are after you for murdering the police commissioner (not to mention another mayoral candidate , after they just lost another one.)

The best part of the episode was Hank actually being smart, when it came to Zuri.  I thought for sure he would do a whole "But she wouldn't betray me!", so I loved that instead, he was like "Yeah, it's possible.  Even likely."  Even after Rosalee tried to give him an out, he just knew it was too much of a coincident.  Well done, Hank!

Wu is trying to learn how to control his wolfy powers.  If he still has him after the end of the season, I wonder if that will be added to the knew credits next season.

Once again, Monroe and Rosalee get about two or three brief scenes.  Sigh....

Meisner, Trubel, and Eve continue to just hang out in their lair, although Trubel at least leaves to learn about the magic stick from Nick.

Diana continues to be creepy, especially with her using her powers to try and hook up her parents.  Also, I noticed her eyeing Rachel/redhead fling of Renard's, so I suspect she knows something is up, and I wouldn't want to be in Rachel's shoes, when Diana decides to get her parents back together.

Two hour finale, huh?  This should be... something.

[Prevailing Wind]

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I barely bothered watching this episode (the Pens are playing against TB), but the parts that I did see were weird.

I didn't watch it at all; I went to bed early.  I think I'm done with Grimm.

[CynicalGirl]

Diana reminds me of Patty McCormack from The Bad Seed. All she needs are the pigtails. 

[HunterHunted]

One final bit of stupid with pretending that Kelly is Reynard's. Kelly was born in a hospital, where Adalind and Nick filled out a birth certificate indicating that Nick was the father. This birth certificate was filed with the state.

[ShadowFacts]

Renard's turn to the dark side was out of nowhere.  I guess we're supposed to believe he has been seduced by power, the way he was when he had possession of the coins.  Because it doesn't make any other kind of sense.  He's all about keeping wesen-related crime under control and under the rug, all these years, and now suddenly he gives Nick the impassioned speech about how the muggles have messed up everything for long enough (when it has been clearly stated that wesen are behind most crime), so now it's our turn and it will be primitive and violent, but at least progress.  Huh??  Just ridiculous. 

[FormerMod-a1]

I fee like we could have this exact same story w/o Eve, Trubel and Meisner.  Like they could totally be lifted out.  It's just a useless diversion whenever we cut to them and anything of importance could very easily be revealed more naturally with the other characters already in play.  And that pains me since I like Meisner.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yeah, the timing of bringing Adalind into the Blackclaw fold made no sense at all. If they wanted to paint Renard as a family man to help him win the campaign, they should have been trotting Adalind and the kids out before the victory speech. Honestly, it would seem weird for a political candidate not to show his family until then.

I'm not a huge Trubel fan, but I loved that she told Nick she was ready to kill Renard for him. I'm glad that Nick told her where the Magic Stick is hidden in the tunnel. I was actually surprised that she didn't want to explore the tunnel.

Diana is one scary kid. They definitely have no idea what they're dealing with. No one knows the extent of her powers. No one can control her. She's flying her baby brother, imitating people's voices, using her psychic powers to nag her mom, forcing her parents to hold hands, etc. She is going to be the death of someone, probably sooner rather than later.

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Seriously, do these writers not understand how politics work?  Because from everything I've ever seen, the politicians family only matters during the actual campaign, not after!  So, what was the point of them desperately needing Adalind, if he ends not even needing her to win the mayoral election?  Are they saving her and the kids for bigger things, like him making a run for the governorship after a few years?  Because I can't make heads or tails of this damn thing.

Not only do they not understand how politics work - after all these years shooting in Portland, they have no idea how elections work in Oregon. We vote by mail. The May 17 primary? I returned my ballot more than a week ago and could have turned it in earlier than that. The ballot included national, state, and local candidates/issues. It annoyed me when West Wing made that mistake - but it was a throwaway line that didn't have much to do with the plot.

Granted, voting by mail isn't riveting tv - but since it was all background tv news coverage, all of that would have worked with a little tweaking.

I had to keep rewinding to catch dialog because the "news" annoyed me so much it took me completely out of the episode.

Then to see that Renard is actually onboard - well, that was a blow.

As it is so often, the only good stuff was Rosalee, Monroe and Wu, though they did not have much screen time.

[Straycat80]

I was disappointed when Renard said he was with Black Claw. There's going to be a war and I can't see Nick and co. losing it. Where is that going to leave Renard? 

[bluvelvet]

5 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

I was disappointed when Renard said he was with Black Claw. There's going to be a war and I can't see Nick and co. losing it. Where is that going to leave Renard? 

 

Dead I think. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

 Go to court, file an emergency motion for custody saying Mom clearly is being coerced to take his child away from him.   Boom, insta custody.   He's the FATHER.  He has rights.

Hmm, that might be tricky. Did Adalind put his name down on the birth certificate? If not, would Nick have to take a paternity test? If so, would Diana's DNA reveal something weird about her genetic make-up? 

Anyway, at least this episode wasn't bogged down with a crime-of-the-week story. And that's about the best that can be said of it because, as everyone else has pointed out, it was a bit of a mess. Wait, did I say a bit? It was quite the mess. 

I just don't get where they're going with any of this. What's this stick gonna do? What's the purpose behind Wu turning wolfie? What's HW even doing down there if they can't do something a simple as rigging a local election? They're useless. 

And Diana is just as confused about her age as the rest of us - she looks like she's about seven and acts like she's three. 

[merylinkid]

Nick is Kelly's father (maybe, possibly), so Diana would not be tested.   Given the huge numbers of Wesen in the criminal justice system and the prevalence for taking DNA from criminals, if anything were to turn up in the DNA someone would have noticed by now (maybe or PLOT HOLE).     

Most states don't require a paternity test if someone steps forward and claims to be the dad.   You want to be on the hook for child support. go right ahead.  Since Nick would be bringing the custody he would be affirmatively asserting he is the dad.   Adalind would be the one to have to prove he is not.   Which would ruin her whole plan (or whatever the hell she is doing).

[Enigma X]

Yes, Hank's reaction was the best and smartest part of this episode.

I don't like nor I want a full on bad Renard. It does not seemed to have happened organically. This is really ruining my watching pleasure.

Some other possibly unpopular opinions of what I did not need this season is: 1.  JuliEve. I never complained too much about Juliette, mainly because everyone else seemed to be doing it already. JuliEve is ten times more wooden than Juliette ever was. I know that some will say she is supposed to be. I feel the same way about this as I do when people try to make up good reasons for  restaurant chefs who serve unseasoned food by saying they want the food to speak for itself. That does not mean you don't prepare it before serving. Just because JuliEve is supposed to be wooden does not mean no convincing acting should be involved. 2. As for Trubel: The actress is not as good to me as she is to others. I would not have minded if she had not come back. 3. I said this before, Wu is good in very small increments. I did not need him to be faux wesen.

[Clanstarling]

4 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

JuliEve is ten times more wooden than Juliette ever was. I know that some will say she is supposed to be. I feel the same way about this as I do when people try to make up good reasons for  restaurant chefs who serve unseasoned food by saying the want the food to speak for itself. That does not mean you don't prepare it before serving. Just because JuliEve is supposed to be wooden does not mean no convincing acting should be involved.

I agree. There are actors who've nailed robotic/wooden characters and created iconic roles (Brent Spiner's Data, Leonard Nimoy's Spock, or going way, way, way back, Buster Keaton. I'm sure there are many more, but my mind got stuck in Star Trek...

[seacliffsal]

I actually loved this episode and am so looking forward to the finale.  I like it when Nick is angry and ready to take out his enemies as he's a Grimm.  It's what he does.  Nice note when Renard told Nick that Black Claw knows that Nick is the first Grimm to fight side by side with Wesen.  I am also interested in Adeline and if she has a plan in mind for getting away from Black Claw with her children.  They referenced her secret message in the note in the 'previouslies' and I think it may play a part in next week's story.   I am very interested in Wu's storyline as it is implied that other Wesen are afraid of him.  And, I think Nick's showing Trubel where the 'stick' is hidden will be important this week.

I still don't like Eve/Juliette, but I though that everything else was riveting.

[neuromom]

So JuliEve mentioned the "twin telepathy" thing. And Trubel I think was the one that mentioned "crossed wires". And shortly thereafter Nick tells JuliEve that she doesn't understand  his anger about Kelly because "he's not your kid ". 

Yep. The brain isn't the only part of the body that is having "crossed wires". I'm calling it. Kelly is biologically JuliEve's. 

[OtterMommy]

4 hours ago, clanstarling said:

Not only do they not understand how politics work - after all these years shooting in Portland, they have no idea how elections work in Oregon. We vote by mail. The May 17 primary? I returned my ballot more than a week ago and could have turned it in earlier than that. The ballot included national, state, and local candidates/issues. It annoyed me when West Wing made that mistake - but it was a throwaway line that didn't have much to do with the plot.

Granted, voting by mail isn't riveting tv - but since it was all background tv news coverage, all of that would have worked with a little tweaking.

You and I must be on the same wavelength!  Didn't watch the ep and, at this point, I probably won't watch any future eps because things just keep getting dumber and dumber...but this election?

Yeah, Oregon is the least exciting place in the country to vote.  We do it in our pajamas (AND our national primaries are so late that it doesn't even matter if we vote, but that's a whole other rant) at the kitchen table and then, hopefully, remember to mail it off or drop it off at a box at the library.  The whole voting thing is usually done for a big chunk of the people up to a month before election day comes around.

Also, this whole Renard and Adalind happy marriage thing?  You know what, Portlanders really, really don't care about the personal lives of their mayors (unless it is a case where power was abused, which has happened in the not so distant past).  Single Renard, Married Renard...NO ONE WOULD CARE!  But you can bet your bottom dollar that, as soon as a baby shows up on the scene, someone is going to go looking for a birth certificate--because, Portlanders may not care about the personal lives of the mayors, but there are a couple newspapers here that have a very good (i.e. Pulitzer-prize winning) reputation for investigative journalism.  Frankly, it is the only thing that keeps them afloat and they've easily taken down at least 3 high level politicians in the last decade or so (1 PDX mayor, a sitting governor, and a past governor).  Which begs the question, why is the press never involved in any aspect of Grimm?  The closest we get is someone posting a video of a woge on YouTube....

 

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Hmm, that might be tricky. Did Adalind put his name down on the birth certificate? If not, would Nick have to take a paternity test? If so, would Diana's DNA reveal something weird about her genetic make-up? 

I'm guessing this might be a season 6 thing.  Of course, if someone didn't have their brain cells in their testicles, we could have taken care of this back in season 4 (at least in Kelly's case...)

1 hour ago, Enigma X said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

3. I said this before, Wu is good in very small increments. I did not need him to be faux wesen.

Cosign.  I could handle a bigger role for Wu (I think that Reggie Lee is a better actor than he's allowed to be on this show) if he were given something to do other than spouting quips, but why does EVERYONE have to be so freakin' "special."  This show really lost something when everyone was finally in the know....

12 minutes ago, neuromom said:

So JuliEve mentioned the "twin telepathy" thing. And Trubel I think was the one that mentioned "crossed wires". And shortly thereafter Nick tells JuliEve that she doesn't understand  his anger about Kelly because "he's not your kid ". 

Yep. The brain isn't the only part of the body that is having "crossed wires". I'm calling it. Kelly is biologically JuliEve's. 

I've been saying this since Season 4....It's actually not a bad twist, except that it should have been brought up long before now (or whenever they finally do it).  Timing has never been this show's strong point.  Wait?  What is this show's strong point?  I forget...

Of course, they'll probably f- the whole thing up by suddenly remembering Adalind sleeping with Renard the day before she raped Nick and Kelly will end up being Juliette's and Renard's.  Ugh....

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I just don't get where they're going with any of this. What's this stick gonna do? What's the purpose behind Wu turning wolfie? What's HW even doing down there if they can't do something a simple as rigging a local election? They're useless. 

I've heard conflicting reports on this, but either the last episode was filmed so that it could double as a series finale (Grimm wasn't renewed until the last day of filming, I think) OR they double filmed some scenes so that they could edit it into either a series or season finale.  Either way, from what you've all said, I don't see how the most skilled writing team out there could go anywhere with the crap this show has put out there this season.....  And, this show's writing team is far, far, far from being the most skilled.

Edited May 14, 2016 by OtterMommy
Typos

[threebluestars]

I was hoping Renard was appearing to drink the Koolaid because his office was bugged and he knew it, and he made the meeting there on purpose so BC will buy in that he's fully on board. I am waiting for a reveal to Nick down the line that he's really not turned.

The Adalind/election stuff was SO STUPID. There was no point to her being there. So the voters are just going to magically be all "Oh, he has a family now" and not wonder "where the fuck have these people been during the entire election"??? UGH.

In general I hate long, drawn out political-type stories like this. I prefer the show as a wesen-of-the-week procedural. I think they should have had Juliette killed at the end of the first season so Nick was open to being paired with new characters as he met them. The minute it was all fast aging kids, babies, heel turns, heel turn turns, shadow organizations etc it just went off the rails.

This show has SO MUCH POTENTIAL. Writers, stop turning it in the wrong direction.

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, arieswriting said:

This show has SO MUCH POTENTIAL. Writers, stop turning it in the wrong direction.

You know what would make me so, so happy?  If NBC said that Grimm would be coming back in season 6 WITHOUT Carpenter, Kouf, or Greenwalt.  At this point, I'm not sure how any of them got a job on Network television after what they've done with this show.  Could another team "save" Grimm?  At this point, I don't know...but it's possible.  I'd like to see someone else try...

[ottilie]

"So the voters are just going to magically be all "Oh, he has a family now" and not wonder "

 

no- the non-wesen residents of Portland are sort of slow to catch on to anything, such as the strange crimes that occur there. Still... the person above had a good point that Nick has the upper hand by working through the system and demanding a paternity test. It would be highly visible, and plausible because the two of them worked together. Also, what is Renard about to do as a zauberbiest mayor that would please black claw? Are they about to out themselves as wesen? They are still outnumbered. 

[Darklazr]

Nick to not dead Juliette Eve,"He is NOT your kid!"  

This show is so damned subtle.  How long before we find out that Kelly Jr. is really Nick's and not dead Juliette Eve's kid?   Momma Grimm raised psycho Diana and now Adalind raised Nick's kid with Juliette.... RME.

[Lii]

So then I'm the only one who was incredibly grossed out by the idea that a two-year-old can telekinetically force her parents to fuck? Or knows what the mechanics of sex even are? Because gross. 

Also why does HW have no budget for light bulbs in their Lair? Why is it so dark in there, seriously? How does anyone get any work done? 

[rubyred]

That veteran actor they've got recurring as a uniformed cop got so many lines I was starting to think he was going to be revealed as Wesen and kill Hank. Because this show is just that subtle. Not.

I think I've given up on hoping this show will ever even hint at its earlier potential. IMO BOTH Adalind and Juliette should have been gone a looooong time ago. The nonconsensual sex, multiple babies - these storylines have just ruined everything, made this a horror-domestic instead of a fun horror/fantasy show. Plus I believe Diana is going to attempt to kill Kelly in oh, about five minutes, so that will be a great memory, infanticide, fun!

I watch because of inertia, I guess.

[Clanstarling]

8 minutes ago, Lii said:

So then I'm the only one who was incredibly grossed out by the idea that a two-year-old can telekinetically force her parents to fuck? Or knows what the mechanics of sex even are? Because gross. 

Also why does HW have no budget for light bulbs in their Lair? Why is it so dark in there, seriously? How does anyone get any work done? 

Unless I missed a scene, she only made them hold hands, which was bad enough. But thanks for that image! Ewww. She's definitely creepy. The writers may have watched Twilight Zone a bit too much.

Dimly lit places are one of my pet peeves too.

1 minute ago, rubyred said:

Plus I believe Diana is going to attempt to kill Kelly in oh, about five minutes, so that will be a great memory, infanticide, fun!

Well, maybe Kelly's super special hexengrimm dna will cancel her out and they'll just be normal kids.

[The Wild Sow]

Quote

Unless I missed a scene, she only made them hold hands, which was bad enough. But thanks for that image! 

It was in the preview.

With voodoo dolls!

[Lii]

Yeah, I extrapolated the escalation of it from the preview. Also it was obvious where it was going after the hand holding and the whole "you live here now so sex me immediately or else" business. Which, gross. 

Edited May 15, 2016 by Lii

[LittleIggy]

17 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

One final bit of stupid with pretending that Kelly is Reynard's. Kelly was born in a hospital, where Adalind and Nick filled out a birth certificate indicating that Nick was the father. This birth certificate was filed with the state.

Thank you! That whole "my children" thing was stupid. Nick can go to court to sue for custody or visitation. 

BTW, does Diane the Bad Seed even have a birth certificate? She was born somewhere in Europe in a cabin in the woods.

[Lii]

Seriously, she's TWO. Why is she even at this mental level of development? And seriously about the sexing thing, who taught her that? Did she have unlimited internet access and a really unidirectional sense of curiosity? 

[ottilie]

In the interview room with Tony, were they saying that if he was part of black claw, he wouldn't woge? Why would that be?

[Lii]

1 hour ago, ottilie said:

In the interview room with Tony, were they saying that if he was part of black claw, he wouldn't woge? Why would that be?

Their reasoning was that if he were black claw he would know who they were so he wouldn't woge on purpose so as to not give away that he was wesen, so they were gonna be tricksy. Which, whatever, since wesen have been knowing who Nick was since back when Bud and his friends were dropping off casseroles back in the day, but that was the reasoning. 

Edited May 15, 2016 by Lii

[jhlipton]

On 5/14/2016 at 9:35 PM, HunterHunted said:

The beauty of a controlled outing of Wesen is that you wait to reveal the really scary looking ones and the ones who eat people until it's far too late for the general public to object. If you're really smart, you sprinkle in some of those Wesen who are routinely victimized by humans like the seltenvogel who developed the golden egg in her neck, the naiad, or the gluhenvolk. First you introduce the cute and relatable ones, next you reveal the ones who might be victimized by humans, you start passing laws to protect Wesen, then you search for the perfect Wesen among the human killers. This would be the Wesen whose story is so sympathetic that you are inclined to overlook the fact that he or she is a human killer. This is something that a lot of civil rights lawyers do. While there are a ton of cases where people have had their rights violated, plaintiffs attorneys often only litigate the most sympathetic cases. That's what you would do with this situation.ill people, your average citizen doesn't pay a bit of attention to most potential legislation. Additionally if the legislation is long and technical enough, most news outlets will only use the talking points that you've written and never read the bill itself. It's not that difficult and if that political consultant had any skills or acumen, she'd already be working on some of that.

So start with Bud and his family; work up to Rosalee (concentrating on her cute fox face and not her abilty to get vicious when necessary).  Next comes Munroe -- all the better if you can work in his helping the police with so many cases.

And you make sure (about the time you introduce Munroe) that while most Wesen are good, law-abiding citizens, there are some real nasties to watch out for.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

So start with Bud and his family; work up to Rosalee (concentrating on her cute fox face and not her abilty to get vicious when necessary).  Next comes Munroe -- all the better if you can work in his helping the police with so many cases.

And you make sure (about the time you introduce Munroe) that while most Wesen are good, law-abiding citizens, there are some real nasties to watch out for.

The trouble with this is, as I see it, people go hysterical over trans people in restrooms and women wearing hijabs and Syrian refugee children; they are going to freak the hell out about wesen folk who can rip your throat out, and who are unidentifiable as such until they are woging in your face and attacking.  So you can't really watch out for the nasties.

Quote

I was hoping Renard was appearing to drink the Koolaid because his office was bugged and he knew it, and he made the meeting there on purpose so BC will buy in that he's fully on board. I am waiting for a reveal to Nick down the line that he's really not turned.

That's a good theory, I had not thought of that.  I could buy into that, because his current posture, if real, I do not buy.  He better reveal that to Nick soon, because I think Nick's last words to him while watching him claim Kelly as his own were "you're dead." 

[Dobian]

I don't understand Renard in all this.  At first they were making him out to be an unwitting pawn, now he's totally involved in the conspiracy.  And why would he publicly claim Kelly is his baby when it can be so easily exposed that he isn't?  Maybe we will find next week that he is deep under cover (and even that's a stretch, if Renard was putting on a show in his office, why didn't he motion for Nick outside to have a separate "real" conversation?), otherwise this guy needs to go.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Dobian

[theatremouse]

21 hours ago, neuromom said:

So JuliEve mentioned the "twin telepathy" thing. And Trubel I think was the one that mentioned "crossed wires". And shortly thereafter Nick tells JuliEve that she doesn't understand  his anger about Kelly because "he's not your kid ". 

Yep. The brain isn't the only part of the body that is having "crossed wires". I'm calling it. Kelly is biologically JuliEve's. 

The problem with this is boatloads of people have been calling that since the moment they announced a post-body-switch pregnancy. Even if that were where the writers originally intended to go, it's shit since it was predicted overwhelmingly right away. They keep thinking they're all clever with their "twists" but they're tremendously obvious in a very boring pattern. Fuck, at this point I'd prefer "it was all a dream" to the dreck they're rolling out.

Edited May 15, 2016 by theatremouse

[OtterMommy]

12 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

The problem with this is boatloads of people have been calling that since the moment they announced a post-body-switch pregnancy. Even if that were where the writers originally intended to go, it's shit since it was predicted overwhelmingly right away. They keep thinking they're all clever with their "twists" but they're tremendously obvious in a very boring pattern. Fuck, at this point I'd prefer "it was all a dream" to the dreck they're rolling out.

That was my point.  The idea of Juliette being Kelly's mother is not a bad twist, but it needed to come out a LONG time ago...like when Kelly was born.  Now it's already out there and when/if it happens, it isn't going to have any impact whatsoever.  For a show that is supposed to be full of suspense and surprise, it is sadly lacking in both.

Honestly, the only "shocking twist" that was a twist or even remotely shocking to me, was the reappearance of Mama Grimm at the end of season 1.  Even with that--I was binge watching the show at that point and, had I been watching it week by week, I probably could have seen it coming (plus, dead parent reappearing is a pretty standard trope as I've discovered).  Nick as a zombie?  We knew that was going to happen for 2 episodes.  Nick losing his powers?  We saw that one coming for 3. Juliette going batshit crazy and being shot by Trubel?  Half a season (maybe not the Trubel part)?  Juliette not being dead?  Some of us knew that the moment the arrows hit her.

Despite having an original-ish premise, this show is incredible reliant of tired tropes that we've all seen and telescoping plots that kill any possible suspense.

Edited May 15, 2016 by OtterMommy

[possibilities]

In addition to everything else, I don't know how they come back from having portrayed Diana as being a basically demonic child with no soul or conscience. Making her terrifying even to her parents leaves us where? I don't want to see them kill off a child. I also don't want them to focus the show on rehabilitating a super-powered, semi-feral brat. And they've erased the whole business of her having been partly raised by Kelly(Nick's mom, not the baby), as well-- you'd think Kelly would have instilled in her some affection for Nick, and given her some kind of positive foundation. She has only been with Black Claw for a little while, but seems to have completely adopted their attitude and approach.