S05.E04: Episode 4

[Tara Ariano]

Sister Julienne's faith is tested by a limbless child; and an unexpected pregnancy poses a problem for a young man who now has to choose between pursuing his studies or finding a full-time job to support his fiancée and their child.

[Primetimer]

And when it comes to Tom, Trixie must take the high road once again.

Read the story

[maraleia]

PBS cut two Patsy and Delia scenes. The first one was the first part of the sunning on the stoop scene and the other one was in the kitchen. Seriously PBS WTF???

[Kohola3]

The pain in Sr. J's eyes during the birth was just palpable.  What a great actress is our Jenny Agutter.

[TheAnglican]

So apparently PBS is just cutting all the Delia and Patsy scenes, eh? That makes it a little confusing to potential new viewers when the feature for which they're cutting to make room is all about lesbianism in the sixties.

[elle]

After all of that, I was not prepared for that cold ending in the hospital!

The pain in Sr. J's eyes during the birth was just palpable. What a great actress is our Jenny Agutter.

The scene near the end where Sister Mary Cynthia is talking about Sister Hildegard, I thought was she was as much talking to Sister Julienne as she was speaking about Sister Hildegard.

[AuntiePam]

I wonder if they cut more than Patsy/Delia.  The young man hoping to go to university went from suicidal to accepting the situation without skipping a beat, and without any further conversations with Tom or anyone else.  "Okay, I'm ready for the paint factory now. Sorry I scared you all.  Where's my lunch?"

 

Did anyone else want Sister J to give Mrs. Cottington a different answer, when asked about the baby's gender?  I wanted her to say it was a boy, thinking mom would be less disappointed.  Then I smacked myself up the head.  It wouldn't have been any easier.  I was surprised that Mrs. C didn't ask if she could see the baby.   

 

Oh, and I was thinking the Trixie-Tom thing was going a different direction.  It seemed to me that they both still had feelings that they're not acknowledging.

Edited April 25, 2016 by AuntiePam

[Beldasnoop]

They did cut more than Patsy/Delia. The scene with the Turners at home was cut in half (very sloppily, IMO) as well.

 

I'm tired of PBS's bad editing of this show. I really wish they would show the whole show. This is why I tell all my friends to buy or borrow the DVDs if they want to watch the show.

[howiveaddict]

I am bad because I thought the girl was faking the pregnancy since she didn't tell the guy she was preg until he said he was going to university.  Then I wasn't sad a bit when she miscarried.  At first I thought she just got her period.  Glad everything worked out.

The thaliomide baby scene was so heart breaking.  I was bawling.  That was horrific how they treated that poor baby. Did they just throw the dead born ones in the trash?   Did they let the mother sleep all night thinking her baby was ok?  Times have really changed.  And thank God for Sister Julienne.  

Also, finally next week the doctor finds out that 

his smoking could kill him. And all those smoking pregnant women. I can't even.

Does netflix show this series unedited?

[awaken]

I so want trixie to find true happiness!

[LittleIggy]

I think I'm going to watch the show on couchtuner since they have the uncut Brit version. Bad PBS!

Anyway, that was another gut wrencher. I was appalled how that hospital treated that poor baby. I wondered why Sister Julienne didn't baptize it, but I guess she was too distraught.

[Beldasnoop]

Does netflix show this series unedited?

 

No, they don't. Actually, the Netflix cut is even shorter than the PBS cut (52 minute running time per episode, compared to about 53 1/2 minutes for PBS and 58-59 minutes for the uncut version). And the versions from the streaming services (iTunes, Amazon, etc.) are even shorter (48-49 minutes for season 5). It makes no sense to me why the streaming sources, which don't have time slots to fit the show into, edit the show even more than PBS. Of the versions of the show that are available for purchase in the United States, only the DVDs are unedited.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Beldasnoop

[GaT]

That poor baby, I can't believe they just put it on a tray near an open window & left it all alone, that was cruel.

 

I don't get what Trixie's problem is, she broke the engagement, too bad if Tom isn't spending the rest of his life pining for you.

 

I didn't understand what they were doing for Sister Hildegard, what exactly is a commemoration & why wouldn't they wait until SH came back?

 

I am so glad the girl did the right thing & released him from the engagement, & it was ridiculous that everyone couldn't figure out that having a degree would let him become a lot more successful financially & work out some way for him to still go off to university.

[j5cochran]

. . . I didn't understand what they were doing for Sister Hildegard, what exactly is a commemoration & why wouldn't they wait until SH came back?

 

I've tried to quickly research this, with no luck, but here's what I think this is about.  Sister Hildegard is named in the episode as the founder of Nonnatus House in Poplar.  My guess is that Nonnatus House was founded decades before the time of the show, and the Sister is probably long dead by the early 1960s.  But, because she was the founder, the nuns have an annual special celebration of her - the commemoration.

[GaT]

I've tried to quickly research this, with no luck, but here's what I think this is about.  Sister Hildegard is named in the episode as the founder of Nonnatus House in Poplar.  My guess is that Nonnatus House was founded decades before the time of the show, and the Sister is probably long dead by the early 1960s.  But, because she was the founder, the nuns have an annual special celebration of her - the commemoration.

Oh, so it wasn't for the SIster Hildegard we know. it was for the original one? I missed that somehow, thanks.

[Beldasnoop]

Oh, so it wasn't for the SIster Hildegard we know. it was for the original one? I missed that somehow, thanks.

 

There hasn't been a Sister Hildegarde on the show before. As far as I can remember, this episode is the first time Sister Hildegarde has been mentioned. Are you thinking of Sister Evangelina?

Edited April 25, 2016 by Beldasnoop

[GaT]

Are you thinking of Sister Evangelina?

Yep, no wonder I'm so confused LOL

[j5cochran]

There hasn't been a Sister Hildegarde on the show before. As far as I can remember, this episode is the first time Sister Hildegarde has been mentioned. Are you thinking of Sister Evangelina?

 

 

Yep, no wonder I'm so confused LOL

 

Now that you mention it, the painting of Sister Hildegard does resemble Sister Evangelista. Or maybe all nuns in full-wimpled regalia look alike!

[MissLucas]

Not my favorite episode. I actually thought the resolution of the young lovers plot too neat. It was grim to think that the young man would lose his future and all his dreams. But it was a good way to show that before effective birth control was easily available it wasn't always just the women who suffered the consequences of unprotected sex. I also did not think the way the community behaved with regards to his academic aspirations was unrealistic. For most of these people that was a foreign world and the idea that a young man in physical prime condition would spend more time than necessary staring at books did make little to no sense. I've come across that mindset too even in present days.

 

In defense of the hospital staff: The nurse who found Sister Julienne was clearly distraught too. She said that the anesthetic from the mother should still be in the baby's system so it would not feel the cold. Clearly the assumption (based on prior cases mentioned) was that the baby had not long to live and that speeding up the process was an act of mercy. I appreciated that they wrote that short exchange between the two nurses and did not just paint the hospital staff as merciless monsters. We might not agree with their methods but they were trying to deal with a horrific situation the best way they could think of.

[morgan]

I absolutely thought the girl was lying about the pregnancy at first, too. I thought it would go along and no pregnancy would result after the quickie wedding (infertility issues).

[sigmaforce86]

They did cut more than Patsy/Delia. The scene with the Turners at home was cut in half (very sloppily, IMO) as well.

 

I'm tired of PBS's bad editing of this show. I really wish they would show the whole show. This is why I tell all my friends to buy or borrow the DVDs if they want to watch the show.

 

That makes two episodes in a row where it looks like Delia had no lines at all when she really did have scenes.  Is PBS trying to pretend that relationship doesn't exist?  Doubtful since the after episode behind the scenes was all about lesbianism in the 60's but why do they keep cutting her out.  I always order the DVD's after all the episodes have aired in the US but I think this time I'll get them early, the editing didn't seem so bad before but not it feels excessive.

 

As for the show though - they bring it every single time.  Sister Julienne's story, Trixie and her drink the the party (which she wisely hadn't sipped yet but she hadn't gotten rid of it either, maybe she doesn't know yet how to gracefully decline but a simple I'm on duty would have done it), Shelagh and Patrick desperately sorting through medical histories to look for a link - it was all great acting and very good story telling.  And I love that Phyllis is softening, becoming one of the girls and offering advice and a shoulder at times

[Kohola3]

I appreciated that they wrote that short exchange between the two nurses and did not just paint the hospital staff as merciless monsters.

 

Too many shows would have gone the "evil them" vs "righteous us" route and I love that this show is more even-handed in these portrayals. 

[Mulva]

Young Tim has really shot up this year.  He also has quite an interest in science. 

I loved Sister Julienne and Sister Monica Joan, but I still miss Sister Evangelina.

 

Trixie, you dumped Tom a year ago, so you don't get to be all butthurt because he's dating someone else. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Mulva

[proserpina65]

Trixie, you dumped Tom a year ago, so you don't get to be all butthurt because he's dating someone else.

 

Plus that crap about finding a man who would put your first, ugh.  Trixie knew Tom was a vicar in a poor area when they got involved, and yet the straw which broke the camel's back on their relationship (in her eyes) was him wanting to work in poor areas with people who really needed help rather than being a country vicar leading a nice life in some village parish.  Okay, yeah, he put his vocation before her wanting to live poshly, but it's a vocation, not exactly a choice.

[attica]

The thing that first struck me about this show was in full force last night: it shows a world of women, all leaning on each other, where men just aren't the focus. The scene where Srs MC and MJ are comforting Sr. J was just beautiful.

 

I wonder if there's a political reason that PBS is cutting the Patsy/Delia scenes, as opposed to, say, Tom & Trixie. I bet they'd deny it.  I remember once learning that the showrunners for Spooks/MI5 were responsible for making the cuts necessary for international broadcast edits (a BBC hour being different from an ITV hour, which is different from a US network hour, which is different still from a US cable hour, and so on), but I don't know if that's true across the board. It's disappointing, however you cut it!

[Febgirl]

Sister Julienne in the hospital holding the baby made me ugly cry.  Jenny Agutter is so good.  

[willowk]

Great episode, Sister Julienne and the baby made my heart break. They are showing the transition well I think from home births which have less technological stuff but more emotional support to hospitals where they can do C-sections but leave babies to die in a dish drainer.

I can't believe Barbara just kept lying to Trixie, last ep left it as she procrastinated about telling her about the date, but this episode jumps ahead and they've been dating for a while and keeping it from Trixie on purpose. Barbara deserved to be taken to task for this, but instead Trixie gives them her blessing. But I wonder if Trixie and Tom will get back together again someday. Although I think Tom is a bit of a dolt and Trixie can do better.

I was furious to read the recap and see they cut the Delia/Patsy scene in the kitchen. I was thinking, boy these girls are really playing it cool. Not so much. And instead of the scene we get the actresses talking about how there were no laws against being a lesbian, but that people would never have thought of Delia and Patsy being romantic, it wouldn't have entered their heads it was possible. Grrr PBS

[LuciaMia]

 

you can "freshen up an oil painting" by blotting it down with bread.

FYI, you can also use a raw potato. 

 

Im also surprised those two families couldn't figure out some way for him to marry her AND go onto a fully-financed university education.

[StatisticalOutlier]

Im also surprised those two families couldn't figure out some way for him to marry her AND go onto a fully-financed university education.

 

I just don't think that's how people rolled.

 

Ian's girlfriend Linda looked like she was plucked from Doonesbury.

[Al Lowe]

I'm sorry that PBS cut the kitchen scene of Patsy and Delia. It was downright romantic and sweet and funny.

[AuntiePam]

 

Im also surprised those two families couldn't figure out some way for him to marry her AND go onto a fully-financed university education.

 

I was too, but then I remembered that Linda was a working girl.  She would have had to quit her job, so her family would have lost her earnings and had another two mouths to feed.

 

How was the guy (forgot his name) going to pay for university?  Did he get a scholarship, or is it free for anyone who qualifies?

[MissLucas]

 

Im also surprised those two families couldn't figure out some way for him to marry her AND go onto a fully-financed university education.

Nobody in those two families was exactly rolling in money. Wasn't Ian's mother ill and his father dead? Providing for the girl and a child would have put quite a strain on family finances. And as others put it - that was simply not the mentality. You father a child, you man up, accept the responsibility, marry and become the family's breadwinner: "Men work, and they provide, and they stand by girls when they get them into trouble."

[anna0852]

I plan to order the blue ray off PBS soon to see the cut scenes.

[JudyObscure]

The story started with Ian showing his mother his university acceptance and scholarship letter and her saying he would be the first person on the street to go that far.  How sad, then when the girl's father gave him that overall and proudly announced he had pulled strings to get him on at the factory.  I had just recently read that in England at that time people usually had the same job their entire lives.  I would have put my head in the oven, too.  I think in the lower working class, in England more than in America, there was a certain amount of resentment toward those who tried to "get above themselves."  Some parents even feared that their children would be ashamed of them if they rose to a higher class.  Good on the boy's mother for putting that ring aside until he was all through with his education.

Im also surprised those two families couldn't figure out some way for him to marry her AND go onto a fully-financed university education.

I kept thinking that, too.  They could have gotten married and she and the baby could have continued to live with her parents while he went to college.  I know it would be two extra mouths to feed, but they somehow manage to feed huge families in that neighborhood  and her father seemed to be in "good work."  It seemed to me more like that bully father wanted to punish Ian rather than to make do for a few years for the greater good later on.  I find fathers who beat up their daughter's baby daddy to be as obnoxious as fathers who kick daughters out for getting pregnant.

[Spunkygal]

I breathed a huge sigh of relief that Mrs Cottington didn't ask to see and hold her baby. I'm sure Sister Julienne would have handled the situation perfectly, but I was already torn up. Another scene that got my tear faucets going again was when Srs J, MC and MJ were sitting, praying and holding hands. What a beautiful moment that needed no words. Jenny Aguttar sure rocked this episode, but she always does. And I was so hoping that as the Turners were going over and over the moms' records to find a link that one of them would stumble on Thalidomide. But Dr Turner said something like "just the usual prescriptions" (or medications, something like that).

Count me in, too, as being pissed that the Patsy/Delia scenes are being cut. Why even have Delia there?

[Margherita Erdman]

My husband came in at the very end of the episode and asked if Call the Midwife had gotten through an hour without being soul-achingly depressing. Then he saw the hospital orderly drop the box labeled "Baby Cottington" into the camera frame. "Never mind!" He can't even stand to be in the same room with the show.

I was so hoping that as the Turners were going over and over the moms' records to find a link that one of them would stumble on Thalidomide. But Dr Turner said something like "just the usual prescriptions" (or medications, something like that).

How powerful a teratogen is thalidomide, i.e. did all or almost all thalidomide pregnancies result in visible birth defects? Because if that were the case, wouldn't someone have stumbled on the association, or pinpointed the start of the problem as the introduction of the drug, pretty quickly?

[GaT]

I think in the lower working class, in England more than in America, there was a certain amount of resentment toward those who tried to "get above themselves."  Some parents even feared that their children would be ashamed of them if they rose to a higher class.

Tracey Ullman had a TV special called "A Class Act" that made fun of the British class system, & one of the sketches was call "Hethers" about a poor girl who is sent to a posh boarding school. Her parents have to sell all their possessions (& a kidney) to send her there, & at the end she is a upper class girl who makes them promise never to contact her again. They're thrilled.

[Beldasnoop]

How powerful a teratogen is thalidomide, i.e. did all or almost all thalidomide pregnancies result in visible birth defects? Because if that were the case, wouldn't someone have stumbled on the association, or pinpointed the start of the problem as the introduction of the drug, pretty quickly?

 

Based on what I've read, thalidomide was most dangerous when taken very early in pregnancy. Apparently many women who took thalidomide later in pregnancy gave birth to unaffected babies. As for this story on the show (this is more a teaser than a spoiler but tagging it to be safe)

this subject will be revisited in episode 8. Several of the issues brought up in this thread will be directly addressed.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Beldasnoop

[Kohola3]

There is a good article about the history of thalidomide here.  There was also talk at the time about the German government hiding or not reporting defects.

[monakane]

I breathed a huge sigh of relief that Mrs Cottington didn't ask to see and hold her baby. I'm sure Sister Julienne would have handled the situation perfectly, but I was already torn up. Another scene that got my tear faucets going again was when Srs J, MC and MJ were sitting, praying and holding hands. What a beautiful moment that needed no words. Jenny Aguttar sure rocked this episode, but she always does. And I was so hoping that as the Turners were going over and over the moms' records to find a link that one of them would stumble on Thalidomide. But Dr Turner said something like "just the usual prescriptions" (or medications, something like that).

Count me in, too, as being pissed that the Patsy/Delia scenes are being cut. Why even have Delia there?

 

It was nice to see Jenny Aguttar play such a heart wrenching scene.  I feel like she is often in the role of advice giver (which she plays beautifully) and we don't get to see her in more challenging scenes.  I don't know if BBC shows are eligible for Emmys, but she deserves one for this episode.  My heart dropped when I saw the baby in front of the open window and I cried when she held the baby and talked to her.

 

I feel for Dr. Turner because his world is going to be turned upside down when the news comes out about thalidomide.  I can't imagine the guilt he will feel.

[Suzysite]

 

Why even have Delia there?

Unpoplular opinion coming up.   I wish they'd get rid of her.  The character is boring, and I'm not interested in this made-up story line anyway.  I realize they are out of original book source material but this is PC pandering and not needed. 

[JudyObscure]

Tracey Ullman had a TV special called "A Class Act" that made fun of the British class system, & one of the sketches was call "Hethers" about a poor girl who is sent to a posh boarding school. Her parents have to sell all their possessions (& a kidney) to send her there, & at the end she is a upper class girl who makes them promise never to contact her again. They're thrilled.

That whole special was brilliant!

[Kohola3]

Unpoplular opinion coming up.   I wish they'd get rid of her.

 

I second that.  This story line just doesn't interest me and I'm not sure why they even went that direction. It's too 2016 to suit me.

[dustylil]

Im also surprised those two families couldn't figure out some way for him to marry her AND go onto a fully-financed university education

 

I don't recall if the issue was mentioned in the episode. However, was it possible that his university scholarship was conditional upon him being single?

[maraleia]

I second that.  This story line just doesn't interest me and I'm not sure why they even went that direction. It's too 2016 to suit me.

It's not too 2016 at all. There have been lesbians since time began and the fact that they aren't out to anyone is period correct.

This story illustrates why the Patsy-Delia story is so important http://www.pride.com/who-f/2014/02/27/who-f-%E2%80%A6-kitty-genovese

Edited April 25, 2016 by maraleia

[Kohola3]

I'm sorry, I don't see the connection between poor Kitty and Patsy-Delia.

 

And I am aware that there have been homosexuals since the beginning of time.  But the premise behind this story is the work of midwives in a poor area of London.  Thalidomide certainly fits the premise.  Unwed mothers, typhoid, and self-induced abortions are relevant.  Patsy and Delia seem to fit some sort of effort to be PC and introduce things that are in the headlines today but were not part of the fabric of most lives back then.

[maraleia]

I'm sorry, I don't see the connection between poor Kitty and Patsy-Delia.

 

And I am aware that there have been homosexuals since the beginning of time.  But the premise behind this story is the work of midwives in a poor area of London.  Thalidomide certainly fits the premise.  Unwed mothers, typhoid, and self-induced abortions are relevant.  Patsy and Delia seem to fit some sort of effort to be PC and introduce things that are in the headlines today but were not part of the fabric of most lives back then.

I brought up Kitty because she was killed right around that same time. To say that two women working in the health field wouldn't be gay and fall in love at any time in the mid 20th century is to discount the many people who lived then who were LGBT. Also, when you use the word homosexual people think you are being homophobic even if you don't mean it because the word is a clinical term and has fallen out of favor in the past 15 years.

If the producers included the story they must have found evidence that a relationship like there's happened at that time.

To cut the scenes for the US broadcast and then include the 90 second special video about it at the end smacks at queerbaiting and homophobia at the same time. That's what we are all complaining about.

[elle]

Im also surprised those two families couldn't figure out some way for him to marry her AND go onto a fully-financed university education

I don't recall if the issue was mentioned in the episode. However, was it possible that his university scholarship was conditional upon him being single?

It had nothing to do with him being single, going to the university would be very costly and he wouldn't be bringing in any money during the time at school.  The scholarship probably only paid for his tuition, which is pretty standard.  This show hinted at this in the scene where the fiance tries to give back the ring for him "to buy books".  His mother has him sell his father's watch instead.

 

Did it seem as if the fiance had been thrown out by her parents and was now living with his mother?

[howiveaddict]

 

How powerful a teratogen is thalidomide, i.e. did all or almost all thalidomide pregnancies result in visible birth defects? Because if that were the case, wouldn't someone have stumbled on the association, or pinpointed the start of the problem as the introduction of the drug, pretty quickly?

Thaliomide prevents angiogenesis which is the formation of bloodvessels.  That is why the babies had no limbs. They did not develop because they had no blood supply. That is one way it works as a cancer drug.  It helps cut off the blood supply to a tumor.

[MissLucas]

Disregard - I had to remove the post since the forum update ate spoiler tags.

Edited April 27, 2016 by MissLucas