S03.E18: Ragnarok

[Browncoat]

I should have known better than to get involved with a show on FOX after what they did to Firefly.

[phoenics]

I believe it's spelled "Abbie", not "Abby".  

[DJG1122]

My guess is it could go either way, depending on how their new storyline develops. They probably don't know yet, either. They left a lot of wiggle room for the writers, lots of characters, a new shadow organization, and a trip to DC. They could reboot Crane into a new context with new people, or keep him in SH with some of the old Team Witness, or some combination. I assume they'll make those decisions based on the story that serves finding the new witness, which could be a half season arc or more. (And, it probably should, if they want any chance of salvaging this. An instant reboot and partnership with Not Abby sounds too stupid even for them. Oh, who am i kidding. I don't trust these writers at all!)

 

I doubt they'll ditch everyone or keep everyone, but at this point it's just a guess.

 

 

That is not the impression I got from the last scene. They said Crane needed to go to Washington DC to talk to some people. There was no indication that he wouldn't be back. Ezra is, apparently, a member of Washington's organization and was tasked with making first contact with Crane. How else would he have gotten the historical document he gave Crane. Reynolds and Sophie may also belong to the organization. That would explain how they both ended up in Sleepy Hollow with the FBI office as a front for the covert organization.

Thanks. I guess I was so shocked by Abbie being killed, I totally missed that part.

[jhlipton]

Abbie cheerfully floats off to purgatory.

 

Did they say this?  At least Once Upon A Time had people go into the light when their "unfinished business" is done!

 

A better example of the timeline problem is this story.

 

Love that story -- although I keep wanting to call it "A Gun For Dinosaur", which is a completely different story!

 

God forbid they put the cute, black female actress with the hot, white romantic lead.  Oh no---can't have that. 

 

Yep -- the white actress can have her pick of hot actors -- white, black, whatever.  The black actress must have a black actor -- period.

 

 

When they showed the church, the majority black church ... Pandora rolls in and basically tells a bunch of black people to worship at her feet...

 

What the fuckerty fuckity fuck?  This is just so very wrong! Did this really happen?

[Sparger Springs]

 

Yep -- the white actress can have her pick of hot actors -- white, black, whatever.  The black actress must have a black actor -- period.

Yeah that's basically true. But tell me this when was the last time you saw a black actress and a black man in an epic love story or will they or won't they story line with shipper names on your TV.  You can see a black couple. Already married  or dating and boring as fuck and propping up their white friends. Black women are barely allowed to exist let alone be in a love story.

 

I watch the The Walking Dead. Sasha and Bob were a background couple. I don't think they actually kissed. I would love to see a black woman in an epic love story on television with anybody, male, female, black, asian or white, something. Abbie dated Danny, or so they said. Apparently something happened and we saw one half hearted kiss. 

 

I guess you could point to the Shonda shows, but I tried her shows and I don't care for them. Anybody besides Shonda. Help me out.

[phoenics]

You got me.  I got nothing.  Unless we include Empire.  But that's not epic love there... but I don't think any of the relationships on that show are shown as shippy epic love.  At all.  

[C76]

My guess is it could go either way, depending on how their new storyline develops. They probably don't know yet, either. They left a lot of wiggle room for the writers, lots of characters, a new shadow organization, and a trip to DC. They could reboot Crane into a new context with new people, or keep him in SH with some of the old Team Witness, or some combination. I assume they'll make those decisions based on the story that serves finding the new witness, which could be a half season arc or more. (And, it probably should, if they want any chance of salvaging this. An instant reboot and partnership with Not Abby sounds too stupid even for them. Oh, who am i kidding. I don't trust these writers at all!)

 

I doubt they'll ditch everyone or keep everyone, but at this point it's just a guess.

 

I winced as I read this, because you may very well be right. I hate how open-ended the finale was. Bit by bit, TPTB have erased what made the show beautiful. Now with the final push to whisk Crane away, I'm disgusted by the thought of what may be ahead.

Edited April 12, 2016 by C76

[saber5055]

So, am I correct in thinking that no one from the town of Sleepy Hollow would follow Crane to Washington? A total reboot without Danny, Sophie, Ezra Mills or Jenny?

 

No one in SH knows where Crane is, since Jenny dropped him at the cemetery. He won't be there when she comes back to pick him up. I can't even pretend to wonder how the feds knew Crane was there and why they came rolling up with lights flashing when they could have knocked on his door and asked him to leave from his home. You know, with maybe an overnight bag? But because of the crapfest this episode was, I don't give a care about such minor stupidness in a majorly stupid episode.

 

Although I admit I read that sentence as "no viewers would follow Crane to Washington." I guess it's a "no" either way.

 

And yeah, the time/space continuum between Abbie and Crane was the heartbeat of this show. So even if Nicole and Tom get new shows, it just won't be the same.

[DeLurker]

That is not the impression I got from the last scene. They said Crane needed to go to Washington DC to talk to some people. There was no indication that he wouldn't be back. Ezra is, apparently, a member of Washington's organization and was tasked with making first contact with Crane. How else would he have gotten the historical document he gave Crane. Reynolds and Sophie may also belong to the organization. That would explain how they both ended up in Sleepy Hollow with the FBI office as a front for the covert organization.

I thought he was warning him that they would come for him and so Crane ultimately made the observation that he did not have much of a choice in the matter when getting in the SUV. 

 

Of course, at that point my brain was bleeding and he may have recited Mary Had a Little Lamb....

[saber5055]

Oops. Double post.

Edited April 12, 2016 by saber5055

[Yolapukka]

What we've seen demonstrated by the last two showrunners is that they find any sort of settled world-building or consistent characterization too confining while simultaneously clinging to increasingly formulaic episode structures. The finale was so open ended and undid so much of the show's universe that I wonder if they'll even keep the man-out-of-time concept or retcon it into something else entirely. I wish I was joking.

[Nanrad]

I'm even more pissed, it doesn't make any fucking sense: If Erza was involved in the supernatural and tied to important shit, why would Corbin ask him to leave??? Why did he wait so long to come back? Why did he allow his kids to stay in foster care with no guarantee that they'd turn out well. We didn't even get an adequate explanation for his departure.

[Snookums]

When they showed the church, the majority black church, I thought I was seeing Abbie's funeral. Instead Pandora rolls in and basically tells a bunch of black people to worship at her feet. I'm thinking they made Pandora the stand in for the show runners and the members of the church were the fandom.  The people that run this show despised their fans.

 

 

Well, here's white privilege in the flesh because until I read that it never even crossed my mind to think of what they did there. I was, to be fair, thinking "Is this Abbie's funeral? What's happening? Why did Pandora just waltz in here of all places? Hey look, she's completely ineffectual! Just like the whole season!" But honestly. HONESTLY.

 

Every time I come back to the boards somebody's pointed out something that makes everything worse. 

 

I'm even more pissed, it doesn't make any fucking sense: If Erza was involved in the supernatural and tied to important shit, why would Corbin ask him to leave??? Why did he wait so long to come back? Why did he allow his kids to stay in foster care with no guarantee that they'd turn out well. We didn't even get an adequate explanation for his departure.

 

 

Like this! Why are the Black father's "reasons" for abandoning his daughters to the mercies of a mentally ill mother, foster care, and the state mental health system so shabby and un-thought-through? Corbin was really no better a father to Joe then Ezra was to Jenny and Abbie but he gets to buy Joe a beer in Heaven's Bar? 

[jhlipton]

I watch the The Walking Dead. Sasha and Bob were a background couple. I don't think they actually kissed. I would love to see a black woman in an epic love story on television with anybody, male, female, black, asian or white, something.

 

I guess you could point to the Shonda shows, but I tried her shows and I don't care for them. Anybody besides Shonda. Help me out.

 

True enough.  I don't watch TWD, but as I understand it, Michonne and Rick are in an epic love story (I've seen the scene of them eating an apple in bed and it is HOT!!!!)

 

There's hints that James "Jim" Holden  and Naomi Nagata may be heading toward a love story on The Expanse.

 

Other than that, I'm stumped.

[Badsamaritan]

I haven't watched them yet but The Underground and that other show on WGN about some mountain community? And their relationships with people that live in civilization? If I'm not mistaken they've got a young AA woman in the town and a young white guy from this mountain community having a romance going on. The 2 lead Black characters on The Underground are being shown falling for each other. So there are networks that seem to be at least trying.

To stay on topic (and semi quote one of my favorite movies), everything they said in the finale is bullshit. And FOX and all involved are fuckin useless.

[Sparger Springs]

I'm even more pissed, it doesn't make any fucking sense: If Erza was involved in the supernatural and tied to important shit, why would Corbin ask him to leave??? Why did he wait so long to come back? Why did he allow his kids to stay in foster care with no guarantee that they'd turn out well. We didn't even get an adequate explanation for his departure.

Cause the writers of SH are dim. That added story line about the dad made no sense.  He was just your basic deadbeat.

True enough.  I don't watch TWD, but as I understand it, Michonne and Rick are in an epic love story (I've seen the scene of them eating an apple in bed and it is HOT!!!!)

 

There's hints that James "Jim" Holden  and Naomi Nagata may be heading toward a love story on The Expanse.

 

Other than that, I'm stumped.

I forget to mention Richonne. I 'm still shocked that actually happened. That makes a grand total of 1 epic romance for a black woman. I'm thinking actually zero for black men.  They also added Abe and Sasha. So far not one kiss. I think one of them will most definitely die in season 7. I will give TWD props for trying. Until they make me angry again.

[C76]

What we've seen demonstrated by the last two showrunners is that they find any sort of settled world-building or consistent characterization too confining while simultaneously clinging to increasingly formulaic episode structures. The finale was so open ended and undid so much of the show's universe that I wonder if they'll even keep the man-out-of-time concept or retcon it into something else entirely. I wish I was joking.

 

Which is precisely what SH doesn't need. I've decided to try and make my way through the episodes I've missed from S2 and 3. Last night I watched a S2 episode and thought,"What is this now? Are the writers stealing from Grimm?"

 

And concerning the possibility of a retcon, until SH's writing/producing/EVERYTHING is back in the hands of people that truly love and understand it, nothing would surprise me. 

[Julia]

Eureka. The dazzlingly beautiful Salli Richardson played a medical doctor-turned-administrator who ran a secret government science project and had the hunky sheriff and the hunky mad scientist fighting over her for the entire five year run. Diversity-wise, there was also Joe Morton's character, whose wife was asian, and Erica Serra's hispanic sheriff's deputy who pulled Matt Frewer's australian biologist and Niall Matter's bad boy astrophysicist.

ETA: if you are a nerd, you may remember Salli Richardson as the empath going to an arranged marriage Picard fell in love with on ST:TNG.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Julia

[Sparger Springs]

Eureka. The dazzlingly beautiful Salli Richardson played a medical doctor-turned-administrator who ran a secret government science project and had the hunky sheriff and the hunky mad scientist fighting over her for the entire five year run. Diversity-wise, there was also Joe Morton's character, whose wife was asian, and Erica Serra's hispanic sheriff's deputy who pulled Matt Frewer's australian biologist and Niall Matter's bad boy astrophysicist.

Never watched Eureka. Were any of the minority characters on the show in a love story with someone of their own race?

[Julia]

Henry's second wife was african american as well, and I think her late husband and the father of the Salli Richardson character's son was too, but I think that was it.

You should really try it. They didn't always get it, but It really was a ridiculously smart, entertaining show.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Julia

[Sparger Springs]

Henry's second wife was african american as well, and I think her late husband and the father of the Salli Richardson character's son was too, but I think that was it.

You should really try it. They didn't always get it, but It really was a ridiculously smart, entertaining show.

Did they end it properly or was it some general nonsense? I'm done with the nonsense.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Sparger Springs

[Canada]

I have the thank the show's creators for this finale.  I realised this week that I just have too many shows to watch and not enough time to watch them all.  But I couldn't decide which shows to delete.  Sleepy Hollow wasn't even on the shortlist; however, now it's an easy choice.  That was a shitty ending to a shitty season.  Bye Sleepy Hollow!  You were great in season 1, then it all fell apart.

[Julia]

taking this to chat.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Julia

[Cheyenne]

Way to destroy a once-great show.  The chemistry between Crane and Abbie was the heart and soul of the series.  When you cut the heart out there's no series left.  Just cancel it now and have done with it.

So wait, did they fire Nicole Beharie or did she quit? These producers are pieces of work. I knew they were never going pair Crane with Abbie, but even I didn't expect this from them. How did FOX allow this to happen? It owns the show. Why didn't they stop the producers or fire them when they found out that writing out Abbie was in the cards? FOX must believe that Tom Mison is the real lead and carries the show.

She was very unhappy with the show and had been wanting out of her contract for a long time now.  They were about to kill her off midseason but they chickened out.  They might as well cancel the whole damn series now as far as I am concerned.  There is no Sleepy Hollow without Abbie.

[phoenics]

Which is precisely what SH doesn't need. I've decided to try and make my way through the episodes I've missed from S2 and 3. Last night I watched a S2 episode and thought,"What is this now? Are the writers stealing from Grimm?"

 

And concerning the possibility of a retcon, until SH's writing/producing/EVERYTHING is back in the hands of people that truly love and understand it, nothing would surprise me. 

 

I agree completely. 

 

Answering further with more depth in the what went wrong thread to attempt to stay on topic, :)

[jhlipton]

The 2 lead Black characters on The Underground are being shown falling for each other. So there are networks that seem to be at least trying.

 I'm thinking actually zero for black men.

Taking this to Small Talk.

[DeLurker]

Well, here's white privilege in the flesh because until I read that it never even crossed my mind to think of what they did there. I was, to be fair, thinking "Is this Abbie's funeral? What's happening? Why did Pandora just waltz in here of all places? Hey look, she's completely ineffectual! Just like the whole season!" But honestly. HONESTLY.

 

Every time I come back to the boards somebody's pointed out something that makes everything worse. 

 

 

Like this! Why are the Black father's "reasons" for abandoning his daughters to the mercies of a mentally ill mother, foster care, and the state mental health system so shabby and un-thought-through? Corbin was really no better a father to Joe then Ezra was to Jenny and Abbie but he gets to buy Joe a beer in Heaven's Bar? 

Because Ezra was a band aid that they needed to put on a gaping, hemorrhaging wound? 

 

And Ezra bought Jenny pink taffy so isn't it all equal?  Said no one.

[phoenics]

I had this thought last night:

 

If Joe was only brought on to advance Jenny's story, and it's highly unlikely that Jenny will be around next season (I wager none of the Mills will be), then what was the point of killing her man and her sister in the span of 24 hours?

 

I mean  -  that's just effed up.

[Three]

I was thinking about this too and speculating whether it was partly developed to be a parallel of Crane’s manpain.

They have said that there will be a new witness, but I’m not so sure they (the mysterious they) don’t already have a plan for LG to take that role. Basically I don’t trust anything they say now. In Jenny there would then be a kickass woman with no possibility of romance with Crane as they are both in pain – and practically brother and sister. Otherwise what’s the point of Ezra and all that unfinished business? He’s just there now to flesh out Jenny’s world.

Now Jenny can go back to being a BAMF, and they don’t have to worry about creating relationships for a WOC as she has THE PAIN.

[phoenics]

Making Jenny the witness might appease some, but I doubt it.  First - I don't think LG can handle it and two, they've already said it won't be someone already on the canvas.  Plus, I really don't think Ezra or Jenny will be back next season.  They're starting over from scratch and I expect the new witness to be white.  They'll make up some reason why or just completely ignore the part where she has to be related to Abbie/Jenny.

[Three]

It certainly wouldn't appease me. I'm really just trying to make sense of their plotting and choices (story and general). Because it is beyond me. I just don't understand how they could so thoroughly mess up something that had so much potential. But as I said, I really don't trust anything they say about anything now. So whatever comes out of their collective mouths now I am taking with a hefty dose of salt. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole witness concept got completely sidelined like so much of the SH world.

[bobbysgurl]

These asswipes have lied when a simple truth would have been accepted. Abbie telling Crane to "take care of my sister" would be all the impetus for them to make Jenny the next Witness. But, then again, why wouldn't they want to wipe SH clean of anything that would remind the viewers of the colossal mess they made of SH instead.

[blugirlami21]

Looking back, I hate that they made Abbie act like a death seeker every time it looks like they might lose a battle. It was getting to Dean Winchester levels of sacrifice. I guess they have been telling us over and over that Abbie thinks Crane's life is more important than her own.

I wish they had the gravitas to kill her off in the midseason finale like they say they wanted so I could have quit the show earlier. The fact that they wanted to bait shippers all season long to get more viewers is the worst part.

Edited April 14, 2016 by blugirlami21

[Cyranetta]

 

But tell me this when was the last time you saw a black actress and a black man in an epic love story or will they or won't they story line with shipper names on your TV.  You can see a black couple. Already married  or dating and boring as fuck and propping up their white friends. Black women are barely allowed to exist let alone be in a love story.

A couple of years ago there was a TV series called "Undercovers" (cancelled rather rapidly, which proves your point) starring Gugu Mbatha-Raw and Boris Kodjoe as sophisticatedly sexy married spies. 

 

NB, even in the lamentable "Ragnarok" was able to play so many emotional layers and had such a luminous presence. To me she bears an uncanny resemblance to Kerry Washington, and I hope some producer is able to take advantage of that.

[phoenics]

A couple of years ago there was a TV series called "Undercovers" (cancelled rather rapidly, which proves your point) starring Gugu Mbatha-Raw and Boris Kodjoe as sophisticatedly sexy married spies.

Oooh! I loved that show! It was campy, but I LOVED seeing two black leads being spies. Man - I don't even think it made netflix or itunes, which makes me mad.

[littlecatsfeet]

I don't think this has been brought up before; I apologize if it has been addressed...but...can you have a grave without a body? Nothing about that damn finale made sense, but I was just thinking about that, sort of in line with all the other fuckery that went on. I can see having some sort of statue or memorial...stone or whatever, but a grave with a headstone? Is that done, outside of TV?

[Sparkling Beth]

I don't think this has been brought up before; I apologize if it has been addressed...but...can you have a grave without a body? Nothing about that damn finale made sense, but I was just thinking about that, sort of in line with all the other fuckery that went on. I can see having some sort of statue or memorial...stone or whatever, but a grave with a headstone? Is that done, outside of TV?

If you're up for some fanwanking--I assume that someone with power faked a burial for Agent Mills, since the FBI couldn't very well explain that she was sucked into a mystic box or whatever the hell was supposed to have happened to her.  So they buried a weighted coffin and had a service and as far as the outside world is concerned, Agent Mills is resting in peace beneath that headstone.

[Three]

So they buried a weighted coffin and had a service and as far as the outside world is concerned, Agent Mills is resting in peace beneath that headstone.

 

Basically what happened for Katrina when she was in Purgatory.

[3dog]

But no, the average person wouldn't likely do that. Those headstones are damn expensive.

[phoenics]

Basically what happened for Katrina when she was in Purgatory.

 

Yeah - yet another dagger from the show that Abbie/Katrina were interchangeable in usefulness to Ichabod except Katrina was lauded as the beautiful wife - even if she did turn evil at the end.

 

The more I think about it the more I'm certain Metzner wrote that finale that way as a "TAKE THAT" to the fans because he's mad we got his previous boss fired.  Asshole.

[Clanstarling]

There's no reason a headstone can't be a memorial. I don't know if it's done or not - but if I had a family member whose body wasn't recovered after death, I might take the trouble and money to do that, to have a place to come to remember them. Cost wouldn't be that big of a deal - after all, the headstone and plot by itself costs less than the usual - headstone/plot/coffin/embalming.

[KaveDweller]

I don't think this has been brought up before; I apologize if it has been addressed...but...can you have a grave without a body? Nothing about that damn finale made sense, but I was just thinking about that, sort of in line with all the other fuckery that went on. I can see having some sort of statue or memorial...stone or whatever, but a grave with a headstone? Is that done, outside of TV?

 

I know someone who had a person cremated and then buried the ashes with a headstone. That's the closest I can think of in real life. I'm also sure some people did headstones for people who died in 9/11 or in wars where bodies couldn't be recovered. People need closure in situations like that.

 

I'm wondering what they told the FBI about Abby though. Wouldn't they need a body to get a death certificate and legally declare her dead?

[Sparkling Beth]

I think we have to assume that the secret organization alluded to in the finale has power beyond the FBI and can make circumstances appear however they want them to appear.

[Yolapukka]

I'm amazed that TPTB managed to come up with a finale that was even worse than a cliffhanger. It's really remarkable just how destructive this was. This could be the last episode ever and they managed to soil what little remained of the show's starting concept and trash the faith the remaining viewers had that they were going to get back on track. It may not return and it's been topped off with a steaming pile at the end that explicitly devalues the preceding three seasons and yes, I'm including the most recent season that was produced by this creative team because they were shameless about mining the witness partnership while devaluing it.  I admire the sense of hope that some fans have that all could be repaired if only the original creative team returned, but what they made is gone. All that is left now is a character named Ichabod played by Tom Mison.

 

Honestly, if they were considering writing Abbie out by the midseason, that tells me there was a willingness backstage to look for an out while constructing an illusion that they wanted to invest in her character. I side-eye the idea that Nicole Beharie's desire to leave was the deciding factor. 

[DearEvette]

When they showed the church, the majority black church, I thought I was seeing Abbie's funeral. Instead Pandora rolls in and basically tells a bunch of black people to worship at her feet. I'm thinking they made Pandora the stand in for the show runners and the members of the church were the fandom.  The people that run this show despised their fans.

 

Well to be fair, the people in the church all ran away screaming.  So if it is a metaphor for black fandom, then at least they got that part right.  LOL.

[CalamityBoPeep]

Well to be fair, the people in the church all ran away screaming.  So if it is a metaphor for black fandom, then at least they got that part right.  LOL.

 

Thank you for an actual Laugh Out Loud moment! 

 

It's been so hard letting this show go. I come in here every day, just to keep following up with how people are coping and whether anyone has had any new insights, but I'm rarely able to laugh on this particular board. It's been so hard for all of us. So... thank you. It's gallows humor, but that's humor. LOL :-D

[jhlipton]

Well to be fair, the people in the church all ran away screaming.  So if it is a metaphor for black fandom, then at least they got that part right.  LOL.

 

Awesome!

[DollEyes]

  Delurking with more hate for this show/episode. In the interest of full disclosure, I've never watched a full episode of Sleepy Hollow before now and if this episode and the comments I've read about this show's rapid freefall after S1 are any indication, I'd say I dodged one of the biggest bullets ever. Although this was my first full episode of the show, I've seen plenty of clips and the chemistry between Tom Mison & Nicole Beharie was incredible, but something told me that I shouldn't get invested in the show nor Ichabbie because chances are that TMFIC (The MotherFuckers In Charge) would ruin it & unfortunately, I was right. For TM & NB's chemistry to be squandered the way it ultimately was is reprehensible, to say the least.  The similarities between what happened to Ichabbie here and Clexa on The 100 are undeniable: an onscreen relationship played by two talented & charismatic actors whose ship was by some peoples' standards "unconventional" but was by far the best thing about the show, only to be destroyed when one of them was killed off for some fucked-up reason, whether it was behind-the-scenes drama, programming monkeys, shitty ratings, shittier writing or all of the above, not to mention at least one of the show's other ex co-stars reading TMFIC for filth on social media, ala Ricky Whittle late of The 100 or Orlando Jones from this suck fest. What happened to Ichabble is even worse than what happened to Clexa because at least Clexa got to consummate their love while Ichabble didn't even get to say it, which made no sense to me whatsoever. I would have called Sleepy Hollow a "shit show," but shit is at least useful sometimes; SH, not so much (to put it mildly), especially after this episode. 

 

  Ichabbie had chance after chance in this episode alone to declare their love-yes, love-for each other, but they not only didn't do it themselves, one character did it for them, which I found disrespectful, condescending and in very bad taste. Last time I checked, Ichabod & Abbie were not only grown, Ichabod was at least 2 fucking centuries older than Abbie, therefore both were perfectly capable of speaking for themselves, but they didn't, which was complete and utter bullshit. Don't even get me started on the show's apparent treatment of Nicole Beharie. As another dark-skinned Black woman, I say that I find the way that the actress, her character and her relationship with Ichabod were treated is beneath contempt. NB's being unhappy enough to quit is bad enough, but the way they wrote her out was offensive to me, her and her character. If Abbie had to be killed off, then it should have been done in a way that respected NB, Abbie and the story and this did neither. The implication that a TV show can't have a White man fall in love with a dark-skinned Black woman is deeply offensive on several levels. It's been done for decades, whether it was Tom & Helen Willis on The Jeffersons or Rick & Michonne on The Walking Dead.  Had TMFIC had had the sense and the guts to give Ichabbie a chance, the show wouldn't be on life support now. Refusing to let Ichabbie happen proves that TMFIC aren't just stuck on stupid; they're marooned there. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by DollEyes

[mythoughtis]

I never cared one way or the other about a romance between the characters, but  there was definite chemistry there.  What upsets me is that Abbie was an equal witness to Crane, not his guide.  Yes, she helped him navigate present day Sleepy Hollow, while he educated her on the supernatural. They were always described as equal when referred to by ancient texts. Since the actress was leaving (see comments below), Abbie had to leave.  Jenny should have been her replacement.   If we needed a replacement.   There were obviously centuries in which there was no witness because the 'superevil'  was dormant, so there were periods of  time with just one witness. 

 

Now as to the actress, who can blame her for leaving. She was the female lead and by the beginning of the second season, was reduced to a recurring character.  The recurring character, Katrina, was given a female lead role that she couldn't handle.  More and more cast members were added.  Season 3 was even worse, Abbie barely appeared.  Even more characters were added.    The primary parts of the show that everyone loved were destroyed.  

 

Was it because she wanted to leave? Was it because filming was too intense, so cast members needed time off?  Was it because the writers messed up the show because they steered it on some direction that only made sense to them?.... and then refused to understand that the FANS wishes needed to be considered? Was it because they got big heads and got lost in the weeds (as the writers in LOST did)?

 I've read that  Season 4 (if it happens) will be on Hulu or Netflix.  My internet comes thru a hotspot, so data is counted and charged.  So I won't have access to this show, and good riddance.

[Winter Rose]

I've held off saying anything about this show, mainly because I just didn't know what to say, I dropped it a few episodes into last season - I think Deliverance was the last one I watched. I was only peripherally aware that Katrina was killed off at the end of last season but it had been so long by that point and, by nature, I'm distrustful of shows that are dependent on the reset button - even if that particular move was for the best.

 

But having heard what happened here, I'm just confused. I started watching for Ichabod, because I like the legend of Sleepy Hollow, but Abbie's why the show could work in the modern day. Without her, I feel like Ichabod, and all his baggage, has no place in this setting because Abbie was the grounding force. Not only that but it sounds like the feedback for this show has been pretty clear cut from the beginning. Not to say I think fans or critics should be able to dictate a show, just that it's important for writers to be aware of what works and what doesn't. And having tried and failed to pull a New Coke on it before, why I lost interest in the first place, I don't understand how the showrunners or FOX could expect anything other than backlash to this finale. From what I've read's gone on, I'm getting the impression S3 was going for a subtler approach to what S2 had tried and failed to do, in which case I don't understand why FOX even renewed the show for a third season then.