All Episodes Talk: 48 Hours

[ari333]

About the dude in the kayak, the woman said to police, "I wanted him dead and now he's gone" WHO SAYS THAT?

[walnutqueen]

About the dude in the kayak, the woman said to police, "I wanted him dead and now he's gone" WHO SAYS THAT?

 

A moron who's in shock and talks to the police in the first place.  ;-)

[ari333]

We binged watched a few eppys this weekend. I get this show, 20/20 and Dateline mixed up in my head. And they cover some of the same cases, so... yeah... I get confused. :)

Something about the Anjelika girl (the kayak case) is super fishy to me.

JLM who is associated (guilty?) *accused - IDK what word to use here - with the RG case, Morgan Harrington, Hannah Graham.... I just cant believe he was that stupid to have been seen in a bar AND on security cams with Hannah and then kill her. He must have been doing this a long time and felt invincible. Good for that brave lady on the beach who recognized him.

[walnutqueen]

We binged watched a few eppys this weekend. I get this show, 20/20 and Dateline mixed up in my head. And they cover some of the same cases, so... yeah... I get confused. :)

Something about the Anjelika girl (the kayak case) is super fishy to me.

JLM who is associated (guilty?) *accused - IDK what word to use here - with the RG case, Morgan Harrington, Hannah Graham.... I just cant believe he was that stupid to have been seen in a bar AND on security cams with Hannah and then kill her. He must have been doing this a long time and felt invincible. Good for that brave lady on the beach who recognized him.

 

You know you're a true crime show addict when you forget which show just covered a crime story you watched (sometimes for the second, third or fourth time).   Then you spend too much time trying to figure out which forum you should be posting in.  ;-)

[ari333]

You know you're a true crime show addict when you forget which show just covered a crime story you watched (sometimes for the second, third or fourth time).   Then you spend too much time trying to figure out which forum you should be posting in.  ;-)

 

 

HEEE. That is so ME!

[walnutqueen]

HEEE. That is so ME!

 

Yes - we have found our people (and don't yet need to blame early onset dementia for our occasional slip-ups) !!!   :-D

[Ohmo]

You know you're a true crime show addict when you forget which show just covered a crime story you watched (sometimes for the second, third or fourth time).   Then you spend too much time trying to figure out which forum you should be posting in.  ;-)

 

Raising hand...Case in point.  I just watched the new 48 Hours episode about the Robert Neulander case (which Dateline also did).  Nothing in the 48 Hours episode changed my mind.  I think he did it, and the daughte's either covering or has created such a mental block because she can't cope with the realization that her father did it.

 

I've often wondered if the format could be changed to a True Crime forum with threads organized by case instead of show?  Then all of the info, regardless if it came from 48 Hours, Dateline, ID, or wherever would go in the thread for that case.

 

However, that might be too complicated for the mods to keep track of what's happening.  I guess I'm thinking that 48 Hours/Dateline/ID should merge.  Cold Justice cases tend to stand on their own, so that show forum could stay as is.  Dateline and 48 Hours do cross a lot, though.

[walnutqueen]

ID re-aired the Blaming Melissa episode last night (the daycare worker convicted of murdering baby Ben Kingan).  Yet another coerced false confession.  Yet again, cops behaving badly, interrogating a young dumb girl for too many hours; refusing to accept her 79 denials, and keeping her LOCKED in the interrogation room (even though they still insist she was free to leave at any time, and all her statements were voluntary).  And yet again, a young person eventually saying whatever the cops want her to, in an effort to make it all stop and to get away from their relentless harassment. Yet another stubbornly ignorant DA hellbent on convicting someone, anyone, for a crime that never happened.

 

That poor girl is still rotting away in prison, despite all evidence to the contrary and having the awesome attorney Kathleen Zellner on her side.

 

 

ETA: The Innocence Project found that in cases of people wrongly convicted of homicide and later exonerated by DNA, over 60% gave false confessions, usually after lengthy intense interviews.

Edited October 19, 2015 by walnutqueen

[gaPeach]

Add me to the list of a crime show buff and having difficulty keeping shows separate.  Chris Hanson does a show on ID (I think) that is interesting and I like how he goes out and talks to people surrounding the case. 

 

Chris Hanson's show is much easier to watch as compared to some shows like Swamp Murders, Snapped, Snapped She Made Me Do It, Evil Kin etc.  Those shows have bad reenactments, the chick that narrates Snapped gets on my nerves after awhile and they repeat or drag out the story so much it makes Keith Morrison look like a speed reader.

[ChristmasJones]

Chris Hanson's show is much easier to watch as compared to some shows like Swamp Murders, Snapped, Snapped She Made Me Do It, Evil Kin etc.  Those shows have bad reenactments, the chick that narrates Snapped gets on my nerves after awhile and they repeat or drag out the story so much it makes Keith Morrison look like a speed reader.

 

I've gotten to the point where I can rarely watch what I call the "cheapo" true crime shows like the ones you mentioned. The production quality is just too low for me. And they are boring because they generally tell you the crime at the very beginning, which takes away any mystery (for me). Unless I know that it is a particularly interesting case, I don't watch them anymore. I cannot stand the chick's voice who narrates Snapped - and cannot believe the folks who make that show think that she is a good choice for that job. Its like nails on a chalkboard for me.

 

While not as high quality as a well-produced documentary series like Frontline, I do feel that Dateline and 48 Hours are two of the best true crime series. I like that they try their best to make you wonder what happens, and not reveal it until the end- even if many of the cases are predictable (eg, the husband did it).

Edited October 23, 2015 by ChristmasJones

[starri]

A few summers ago, ABC did a reenactment show called Final Witness that did the same thing as a lot of the cheapo Investigation Discovery shows but with much higher production values.  I kind of wish it had caught on.

[grumpypanda]

I just rewatched the Noura Jackson case and I still don't know whether or not she killed her mother. Her lack of an alibi and the 4:00am Walgreens trip still bother me though. Who buys bandaids at 4:00am? Surely they had some basic medical supplies at the house. Also, I still don't understand how a young girl can brutally murder her mother and not leave a shred of forensic evidence. This whole case is so bizarre.

Anyway, I look up this case after the episode and it appears that the original second degree murder conviction was thrown out and Noura recently pled to a manslaughter charge with a ten year maximum. She's already served nine years so she's due to be released next year. Scary if she's really guilty.

[Ohmo]

I seriously had to look to see what crime show thread I was in before I began to type this.

 

Harold Henthorn update: I'm glad that he was convicted.  Hope he gets the life sentence he so richly deserves.  I feel so sorry for Toni and Lynn's families, and I hope Hayley gets to live with Barry and his wife.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Ohmo

[Medicine Crow]

Road to Redemption

Really interesting story.  Maureen Maher looked fabulous!!!

[grumpypanda]

I rewatched the episode titled, Collision Course again today. This is the case where Robbie Walters killed Brittney Basher and tried to cover up the murder with a car accident. He was only arrested after his wife recorded him confessing to the murder on tape.

Anyway, Walters bothered me even more than most of the killers featured on these types of shows. I just wanted to smack that smug look off his face during his interview. This is a young guy that really hates women and has no remorse for killing Brittney. I hope he ends up someone's bitch in prison and has a long miserable life.

Edited December 5, 2015 by grumpypanda

[One Tough Cookie]

Harold Henthorn update: I'm glad that he was convicted.  Hope he gets the life sentence he so richly deserves.  I feel so sorry for Toni and Lynn's families, and I hope Hayley gets to live with Barry and his wife.

 

 

This episode was just on a couple of hours ago...I watched most of it and fell asleep, missing the verdict.  I'm really glad he was found guilty. btw--I do think he had a sudden attack of diarrhea, but only AFTER he pushed her off the cliff.

[ButterQueen]

I just watched the Facebook episode where the 3 friends search in vain for their missing friend. The friend's live-in girlfriend, who was the last to see her alive was a bitch. Her "YOU TELL ME" attitude was horrible.

Fellow posters, I've been on 9 cruises and always felt safe. I don't abuse alcohol though. Don't be afraid to go.

Edited December 11, 2015 by ButterQueen

[Ina123]

I love most of the ID channel but like others, I hate the cheap, tabloidy ones. That new one with Roseanne is one. And Wives with Knives...yuk. You can usually tell which ones they are just by the name. Hate the sexpot/stud stories too.

As for 48 Hours, I often wonder if Maureen Maher has a closet full of leather jackets in that deserted warehouse.

My favorite on Dateline is Keith Morrison, even if he does go for the dramatic.

[txhorns79]

I saw the episode this week concerning the murder of Nancy Pfister.  The DA must have had a seriously weak case against all three of the suspects that they would accept Trey Styler's confession.  Perhaps there was more that was left out of the episode, but it seemed pretty incredible to think he could have committed that murder all by himself.   

Edited December 20, 2015 by txhorns79

[Ohmo]

I saw the episode this week concerning the murder of Nancy Pfister.  The DA must have had a seriously weak case against all three of the suspects that they would accept Trey Styler's confession.  Perhaps there was more that was left out of the episode, but it seemed pretty incredible to think he could have committed that murder all by himself.   

 

CBS has done a couple of updates to this case.  I think Trey's suicide points the finger more toward his wife, not less.  I agree with you.  I don't think he physically could have done it himself, and honestly, Kathy doesn't come across to me as bright enough to have engineered such a plan all by herself.  I could see Kathy following directions in much the same way Nancy ordered her around, but I do think Trudy has gotten away with whatever part she did play in this.

 

It is difficult to feel sympathy for Nancy though.  She appeared to be a truly wretched, spoiled individual.

[txhorns79]

I agree with you.  I don't think he physically could have done it himself, and honestly, Kathy doesn't come across to me as bright enough to have engineered such a plan all by herself.  I could see Kathy following directions in much the same way Nancy ordered her around, but I do think Trudy has gotten away with whatever part she did play in this.

 

I felt like Kathy would not have had the fortitude to commit murder.  Maybe she's a really good actress, but she seemed hysterical in the 911 calls to the point where I felt like she would have fallen apart entirely had she actually been involved in the act.  I did think Trudy was involved, if only because there appeared to be no logical way that Trey could have acted on his own, given his infirmities.  However, short of her confessing, it seems like she has gotten away with it. 

[Darling Lily]

I had seen this episode about Nancy Pfister before, but watched it again, glad I did.  I was surprised to see they had actually re-edited some of the footage, added more, and gave that epilogue.  I wish more shows would do that!

 

I don't believe Trey did it by himself either.  I think he fell on his sword for his wife.  The fact that she left the area, changed her name and divorced him must have been incredibly devastating to him.  Not surprised he took his own life.  That's the tragedy.  It's a tragedy for most people who end up as murder victims, but like the previous poster, I also have little sympathy for Nancy Pfister.  Sounds like she was a loathsome beyotch to most everyone.  Sorry for her daughter though.

[Ohmo]

Mechelle Linehan and Kent Lippink.  The evidence may be weak and the prosecutor might have been stupid to try and bring that movie into the trial, but I still think that Mechelle was involved somehow.  I understand that it might never be able to be proven, but I don't buy the angelic, breathy, baby voice.  There's a lack of sincerity there, and oddly enough, I find her doctor husband to be one of the most damning strikes that she hasn't changed.  He sounded like as much of a sap as John, Kent, and Scott did before him, and I find it verrrry intriguing that they are now separated and he didn't appear on camera any more.  Perhaps he's wised up when it comes to Mechelle, at least on a personal level.  I think the prosecution screwed this case up royally, but I also simultaneously think that Miss Mechelle isn't anywhere near as innocent as she seems.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Ohmo

[Ina123]

Mechelle Linehan and Kent Lippink.

 

I agree. Mecelle is a coniving, evil, witch. I have no doubt she planned it all. It's such a shame that the trial was botched. If I were her husband, I'd watch my back. As soon as she wants the daughter to herself his goose is cooked.

 

And just as an aside, men can be so dumb.

[Jpxfactor]

Men don't think with their brains...perfect example

[Ohmo]

Men don't think with their brains...perfect example

 

Did you also notice that Mechelle's lawyer is a man?  I don't think that was a coincidence either.

[biakbiak]

Did you also notice that Mechelle's lawyer is a man?  I don't think that was a coincidence either.

I think it has to do with the fact that an overwhelming majority of criminal defense trial attorneys are men (67-70%).

[RedheadZombie]

I had a hard time understanding why all these men lost their minds over a perfectly average looking girl. Then I saw her former co-worker ........ Good God there has to be a serious shortage of women in that part of Alaska.

I will never understand why some men are drawn to that baby girl act. It just seems vaguely pedophilic in nature.

[backformore]

Mechelle Linehan and Kent Lippink.

 

I agree. Mecelle is a coniving, evil, witch. I have no doubt she planned it all. It's such a shame that the trial was botched. If I were her husband, I'd watch my back. As soon as she wants the daughter to herself his goose is cooked.

 

And just as an aside, men can be so dumb.

Wow. Yeah, Mechelle has some serious personality disorder symptoms. She reminds me so much of a woman at work, the sweetly innocent little girl voice. Men do seem to respond to that, don't they?

[Ina123]

Sorry, if it's the wrong show but I believe it's 48 Hours'

 

This Catherine Shelton hag in Dallas. What a piece of work. How does she keep out of prison? I have no doubt that she was with her husband that night and said what the woman heard her say, "Shoot her again". And then to turn around and sue the woman for defamation. Defamation. Catherine Shelton has defamed herself. If I was Herrera (sp?) I'd stay in hiding, too.

[FanOfTheFans]

Oh boy that Mechele is a piece of work. Add me to the group that doesn't get how men don't see through her BS. I have this ongoing debate with my boyfriend that bitchy women never lack for a man at their side. Of course he says he would run screaming from someone like Mechele but apparently many men buy it hook line and sinker. Even her lawyer seemed under her spell in a more than normal way. And that baby voice is so annoying. Just bleh.

Ina123, yes that Catherine Shelton was on 48 hours. Her and Mechele need to take several seats together. Two peas in a pod, those two. Scary scary women.

[ari333]

Did you see The Sober Truth? I cant believe AA mixes criminals with other folks who are suffering with addiction.

[RedheadZombie]

Did you see The Sober Truth? I cant believe AA mixes criminals with other folks who are suffering with addiction.

 

I think the whole point is that AA is anonymous.  It's a support group that the victim attended voluntarily, and the only thing that's guaranteed is you're going to be surrounded by folks with addiction issues who are just as dysfunctional and self-destructive as you are.  One of the rules is to avoid relationships, which the victim would have known.  I feel like this is an attempt at a money grab by the family, and it's really unfortunate.  If there's truly an issue with women being preyed on by men, the only way to address the problem while maintaining the anonymity is to offer same-sex only groups.  But I have a feeling you'd still have these same women choosing to attend the co-ed groups, because they're needy and vulnerable and seeking male attention.

 

I could buy the family's argument if the victim was in a paid addiction facility, where the organization would have a greater responsibility for 24/7 safety.  But even they would let her leave AMA (if she was there voluntarily), and she would then be responsible for herself.  The victim's true problem was that she was an addict and alcoholic who wasn't sober.  She could have googled the guy she started seeing just like most women do.

[ari333]

I think the whole point is that AA is anonymous.  It's a support group that the victim attended voluntarily, and the only thing that's guaranteed is you're going to be surrounded by folks with addiction issues who are just as dysfunctional and self-destructive as you are.  One of the rules is to avoid relationships, which the victim would have known.  I feel like this is an attempt at a money grab by the family, and it's really unfortunate.  If there's truly an issue with women being preyed on by men, the only way to address the problem while maintaining the anonymity is to offer same-sex only groups.  But I have a feeling you'd still have these same women choosing to attend the co-ed groups, because they're needy and vulnerable and seeking male attention.

 

I could buy the family's argument if the victim was in a paid addiction facility, where the organization would have a greater responsibility for 24/7 safety.  But even they would let her leave AMA (if she was there voluntarily), and she would then be responsible for herself.  The victim's true problem was that she was an addict and alcoholic who wasn't sober.  She could have googled the guy she started seeing just like most women do.

 

I see your point, but some people are ordered to be there by the court. I don't think it is counterproductive to separate those groups. Court order  has a different connotation to me, as in there is some serious trouble that involved the law and courts. I don't see the problem in separating them.

 

Google wouldn't work if someone used no name, an incomplete name,  or a different name too. YMMV

[Madding crowd]

I don't see how AA could start separating people without changing the type of group it is. I guess the government could set up separate mandated court groups, but I think having an entire room full of felons might be counterproductive to the message of sobriety too. I imagine there is some fear of going into meeting, using the restroom or even going into the parking lot at some meeting, but attacks on women can happen anywhere. For example, I have often been afraid in semi deserted parking garages, college campus late at night, leaving the hospital after midnight etc. 

 

People shouldn't be going into AA with the intent of starting a romantic relationship-that is really frowned upon. They also are not supposed to really socialize with the people in the group. There are support groups which function more as social groups, but it not a good idea for a person struggling with an addiction to be in a relationship with a person with the same issues. 

 

I am happy the monster who killed her was found guilty, but I don't believe AA had anything to do with her death and her parents are not owed by them. 

[NewDigs]

I see your point, but some people are ordered to be there by the court. I don't think it is counterproductive to separate those groups. Court order  has a different connotation to me, as in there is some serious trouble that involved the law and courts. I don't see the problem in separating them.

 

Google wouldn't work if someone used no name, an incomplete name,  or a different name too. YMMV

Another issue re: court ordered AA attendance is that AA is more set up for those who want to change, want to better control their addictions.

It is set up for people who want to be there, not those ordered to be there. I think even AA has issues with accepting court-ordered attendees. It seems that the ones ordered to attend could be not only less than anxious to participate but possibly disruptive.

[ari333]

Another issue re: court ordered AA attendance is that AA is more set up for those who want to change, want to better control their addictions.

It is set up for people who want to be there, not those ordered to be there. I think even AA has issues with accepting court-ordered attendees. It seems that the ones ordered to attend could be not only less than anxious to participate but possibly disruptive.

That is what I was trying to say, but you said it better.

[Shriekingeel]

Oh, that damn Durst case. The interviews with that dumber-than-plant-life Texas jury that set him free always set me off.

[punkypower]

...and the fact thet were all so jovial and laughing..bite me, jury (and bite me, Jeanine, for good measure)!!

I found the video footage of Susie jarring, since we there were only pics in The Jinx. Particularly haunting was her quote about the story she was meant to tell was her own.

Heh,Dick getting cross-examined on the letter. Erin did well.

Oh, hai, Cody!!

[starri]

Two hours of Erin Moriarty?  Yes, please.

 

Am I the only one who thought he was really condescending towards her?  "Leave the finer points of law to the men, little lady."  

 

She should have been like "I'm an attorney too, asshole."

 

Kathleen Zellner is representing Steven Avery now.  The fact that she took his case kind of sways me more to the "innocent" side, since it seems like she's really careful about who she takes on.

[Ohmo]

Kathleen Zellner is representing Steven Avery now.  The fact that she took his case kind of sways me more to the "innocent" side, since it seems like she's really careful about who she takes on.

 

For me, the opposite is true.  This is the first case where I question Zellner's judgement.  I believe that Ryan Fergueson was innocent.  I believe that Darryl Tibedouex (the Zellner case in Louisiana) was innocent.  However, I believe that Kathleen chose poorly this time because I think Steven is guilty.

[LakeGal]

I watched last night's episode What Did the Children See? It was the case of Cory Lovelace's death and her husband Curtis being the accused.  They ended in a mistrial when the jury was hung.  They are retrying the case May 31st.  I think Curtis is guilty.  I also think the oldest daughter realized it a long time ago and led to the estrangement with her father.  Big hero in a small town.  I think they should move the case to another area with a jury that doesn't know Curtis.

[Jpxfactor]

There is too much reasonable doubt. U can't put people away like that with no proof. She was alcoholic and belemic. Too many unanswered questions. To put somebody in jail on that evidence scares the crap out of me.

[UsernameFatigue]

I watched last night's episode What Did the Children See? It was the case of Cory Lovelace's death and her husband Curtis being the accused.  They ended in a mistrial when the jury was hung.  They are retrying the case May 31st.  I think Curtis is guilty.  I also think the oldest daughter realized it a long time ago and led to the estrangement with her father.  Big hero in a small town.  I think they should move the case to another area with a jury that doesn't know Curtis.

I totally agree with everything you have said, especially that the retrial needs to be moved to a town where this clown is not known.  It is not possible for rigor to set in, in the 45 minutes between when Curtis left to take the older kids to school and when he returned. If you were only gone 45 minutes are returned home to your wife/hubby appearing to be dead wouldn't your first phone call be to 911 to try to save her friggin' life? Nope, because he knew she had been dead for hours. It also isn't possible to die with your hands in the air - gravity would make them fall down. Unless there was a pillow under them until rigor set in. They also said there was a pillow missing - maybe because it had evidence on it of someone being smothered.

 

As I often do in cases like this I googled for more info. Interestingly, NONE of the three kids remember being interviewed by the police two days after the murder. Also info regarding her toxicology report reported at the trial:

Baden made the determination because of the photos of the scene. Cory Lovelace's body position, especially the position of her arms, made Baden take notice. Cory Lovelace was found dead in the couple's bed with her arms raised and bent. Her left arm was up near her shoulder and her right arm was in a similar position but a little lower on her body.

"Her arms are not in a natural position," Baden said. "You can't possibly die like that."

Baden said a pillow under her arms could have been there long enough to keep her arms in that position until rigor mortis set in.

Baden said toxicology results also factored into his findings. Cory Lovelace's blood-alcohol level was 0.049 percent. Baden said no alcohol was found in her urine or in her eye fluid. He said alcohol is usually found in those fluids about a half-hour after drinking. He believes Lovelace died shortly after she took her last drink.

"She died of suffocation with a pillow," Baden said. "That would be consistent with the findings, and it happened before midnight that evening."

 

The show made it sound like the oldest daughter was estranged from the family because she did not get along with the young woman he started dating six months after Cory's death (what a co -incidence that was) and married within two years. But he divorced her in 2013. So why not reconcile? I believe that it is because she knows her father killed her mother. And I think that is why wife number three exists - to give him credibility. How odd that they knew each other in high school - she acts like he is still the BMOC and she can't believe she snagged him. I found her to be pathetic. The report I read also said she has adopted the younger children. I wondered why she kept saying her children, as I said to my hubby they aren't her children! In fact since he didn't divorce wife number two until 2013 they would barely know her. Sounds like he moved quickly to put a family in place to make himself look good.

Edited February 22, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[UsernameFatigue]

One other thing I forgot to add - the whole fact that he is an attorney makes it ridiculously suspicious that he DID NOT CALL 911 OR THE POLICE when he found his wife apparently dead. Who does that other than someone who is guilty and is trying to buy time. He never did call 911, leaving it to his partner to do. It isn't like he is some country bumpkin who was confused and didn't know what to do. He worked as a state's attorney, prosecuting criminals. You know, people like himself.

Edited February 22, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[LittleIggy]

I think he is guilty too. The position of the her hands is what got me. The poor woman was fighting back.

[photo fox]

It's cool that you guys are discussing this. I actually live in that county and have been following the case from the beginning, so I watched to see how the national media would handle it. My friend lives two doors down, which hadn't occurred to me until I saw her house in the video. I used to work in local media, so I've met or know of several of the players. Weird to see them on television! Also weird to see Maureen in all her leather glory outside our courthouse. Hee!

I thought they did a good job of hitting the highlights with the time they had, but there was a LOT that didn't make it into the story. I thought they spent too much time on Wife #3, considering she wasn't even in the picture at the time, but I realize that's probably because they couldn't interview Curt, but wanted to show his "side".

Anyway, I could write a book about this case, but I don't want to make my post too long! Anyone have any particular questions? Or I can just ramble on...

[arejay]

Oh, please, Fox, do ramble on.

[ari333]

Im confused. I thought the oldest of the three daughters was the mom's daughter from a previous relationship/marriage. The two younger ones were his and hers together. I can see why the older one was estranged from step-dad who killed her mom... or just estranged from step-dad in general.  

[biakbiak]

Im confused. I thought the oldest of the three daughters was the mom's daughter from a previous relationship/marriage. The two younger ones were his and hers together. I can see why the older one was estranged from step-dad who killed her mom... or just estranged from step-dad in general.

No they are all his children. The other three children are boys. Edited February 22, 2016 by biakbiak