S06.E16: Last Day On Earth

[Nashville]

However, one thing that really struck me  -- and forgive me if this has already been addressed -- was that here they are, in the woods, looked like at least 100 people, all whistling the Negan death knell song, floodlights, and there isn't one walker?

Maybe there's another 100+ Saviors standing perimeter guard, with orders to quietly shank any shamblers that try to crash the party...?

Also, where do all these Saviors live? Like others, I find it hard to believe Aaron didn't run into them on a recruiting trip. Do they have a few camps?

More like several dozen - and it wouldn't surprise me overmuch if they were all about the size of the one CDB snuffed.

[FilmPimp]

Oh my god, the stuff people come up with.... they are KILLIN' ME. Lmao

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

courtesy of Rapsity

[catcory]

OMG, so funny!!!  Too damn funny!!!

[Lady Iris]

Thanks for posting that FilmPimp. A bit of levity is needed and required regarding this episode.

[HalcyonDays]

For a little amused and curiousity, created a poll for everyone if you want to vote and see how right we are...

 

POLL - Season 6 Cliffhanger - Who Was It?

[patty1h]

I can only imagine how many Negan's will be showing up at Halloween parties/events this year.  Comic Con will probably be overrun with them.  It's such an easy outfit to put together... a leather jacket and a bat and you're halfway there.

[tiredofwork]

 

I would join Negan's group and I'm a full on, obnoxious bleeding heart liberal.  In fact, I'm an outright socialist. (maybe that does make me crazy after all) I believe we should all take care of each other; particularly the sick, children, and elderly. I believe it's our duty as humans to take care of each other...

 

..and I'd join Negan's group in a heartbeat.

 

It's a kill or be killed world and while I would hold out hope that humanity still lives, I'd join the biggest, baddest group out there. The promise of protection, food, and not dying would be too great to not join.  Sign me up.

 

Damn.., ok then.

[callmebetty]

I can only imagine how many Negan's will be showing up at Halloween parties/events this year. Comic Con will probably be overrun with them. It's such an easy outfit to put together... a leather jacket and a bat and you're halfway there.

Don't forget the jaunty scarlet scarf! It's what every megalomaniac psychopath will be sporting this fall. It really pulls the outfit together. Edited April 8, 2016 by callmebetty

[Lady Iris]

And crazy straight white teeth. No wonder Michonne couldn't get her hands on any toothpaste. We know where it all went now.

[AwesomO4000]

It's a kill or be killed world and while I would hold out hope that humanity still lives, I'd join the biggest, baddest group out there. The promise of protection, food, and not dying would be too great to not join.  Sign me up.

 

Except that it's sort of an empty promise, in my opinion. There is no guarantee. Negan's groups are expected to "recruit" for him, and in some cases, that puts them on the wrong end of a group that doesn't want to be "recruited" - as with Daryl's rocket launcher. Or out in walker territory (at least Alexandria and Hilltop have walls). For minor infractions, you get maimed - like the woman Maggie killed who had gotten her finger cut off for looking for her boyfriend without permission. And Negan is unstable. I'm sure the Governor's people thought that they would be protected, too, but as soon as things got tough, instead of letting them go, the Governor shot them and killed them himself instead. With such huge egos, there is always the chance that you are just an extension of them and their ego, and if you don't perform that duty, they might potentially make an example of you or outright kill you. No thank you. I'll take my chances on my own until I find a more stable community leader.

[ShadowSixx]

The stupid ending aside I do want to give the actors credit for their facial expressions when Negan was choosing. Especially Rick, Sasha, and Eugene who looked straight up terrified. I couldn't tell Carl's expression because the hat was in the way but he looked scared. Michonne, Abe, Aaron, Glenn, and Daryl weren't going to show fear and Rosita looked like she lost all hope. Maggie was just sick so don't know if she comprehended fully on what was going on.

 

[Peanut]

I couldn't figure out who the dude in the blue shirt was.  Then I realized it was Maggie....

[Maverick]

Don't forget the jaunty scarlet scarf! It's what every megalomaniac psychopath will be sporting this fall. It really pulls the outfit together.

 

 I'm just glad someone other than Aaron realized that just because it's the end of the world it doesn't mean you have to dress down.  It's not like Macy's was at the top of everyone looting list.  Even if you just accessorize with a nice scarf it does wonders for how people look at you.

[mandolin]

Are we sure Daryl even knows there's a bat? Surely he can't see through the curtains over his eyes.

[slade3]

I couldn't figure out who the dude in the blue shirt was.  Then I realized it was Maggie....

I don't know why - maybe I'm tired - but this made me laugh hysterically. Thanks. Needed it.

[paigow]

Are we sure Daryl even knows there's a bat? Surely he can't see through the curtains over his eyes....

Why is Negan waving a giant hot dog at me???? 

[Iguessnot]

Up until this time I wasn't sure how I felt about the episode. As a non spoiled, non reader of the comics I've had to endure internet whispering about this "Negan". The show has been pre announcing this Negan for sometime. Talking Dead was all giddy about Negan. So, as I mentioned in my earlier post, when we came down to the finale and still hadn't been formally introduced, I really thought we would see his face and the show would be over. So I was pleased there was more. But I felt empty.

 

Anyway toady I was reading the front page of Yahoo.com and some idiot wrote a headline that named the Lucille victim in the comics. So since people are going to be stupid about it, I just read the Lucille panels.

 

I came away feeling that this particular cliffhanger is about punking the comic readers. But why? I'm not a comic reader. No one was required to read the comics to enjoy the show so the joke falls flat because there's no other good reason to not tell the storyline now. The ratings game has gotten bigger than the story. Glenn falling into the zombie moshpit and surviving was bad enough, but Sam yelling for his mom amidst walkers as a cliffhanger, yet the next episode ignoring that completely was unforgivable. With these kind of show tactics, the fun has gone out of speculation.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Iguessnot

[paigow]

A group of Neganites was assigned to run an 80 mile zombie parade....

all whistling the Negan death knell song, floodlights, and there isn't one walker?

Edited April 9, 2016 by paigow

[SharonH58]

I don't know if these have been posted but they help ease the pain

http://shaolinbynature.tumblr.com/post/142301523082/twd-fans-reacting-to-neganfinal-scene-in-the

 

https://youtu.be/RtdW4TPzhEk

Edited April 9, 2016 by SharonH58

[ParadoxLost]

Anyway toady I was reading the front page of Yahoo.com and some idiot wrote a headline that named the Lucille victim in the comics. So since people are going to be stupid about it, I just read the Lucille panels.

 

I came away feeling that this particular cliffhanger is about punking the comic readers.

 

I'm also attempt to be a non-spoiled and non-comic reader but it was almost impossible to avoid who Negan was, the bat, and who died in the comics even before the episode aired.

 

I don't actually think they were trying to punk the comic readers.  I think they thought the anticipation was so high for this "iconic" scene that the anger would be over delayed gratification rather than subpar storytelling.

 

I read the wiki page on the half dozen comics that lead up to this moment and no farther and now I think that there is no way Negan and his introduction can live up to the hype.  I don't think the writers know it but this was a no win situation.  And really not just because of the stunts they pulled but because of the subtle character differences.

 

To make this work in terms of longer lasting ramifications on the group they need to kill someone who represents hope or is in the inner circle.  It basically comes down to Michonne or Carl and its not going to be Michonne or Carl because "No One is Safe" is all hype and no follow through.

 

Aaron, Abraham, Eugene, Rosita, and Sasha are all characters that haven't really broken into the inner circle enough to make their death a game changer.  This is supposed to be "the" moment on the Walking Dead.  So if we ask ourselves, what is more iconic, Negan killing one of these characters or Bob watching someone eat his leg, its going to be Bob every time.  And this is because they didn't do a good job introducing Negan.  But also, like Bob most of these characters haven't broken out enough to avoid being on everyone's future zombie chow list.  I do think Abraham, in particular is safe because they like the attention they get for his dialogue.

 

Daryl will affect Rick, but he's a loner and I don't think it will rise above other deaths to change everything.  I think that Carol breaking down for no reason before this incident is a decent clue that Daryl is safe because they would have had Daryl's death be the impetus for Carol if he were going to die; and, if Daryl were going to die then Carol would have been in the line up.   Also I think that they want someone who is relatively innocent to be the victim and having Daryl blow up Saviors with a bazooka on top of the preemptive strike puts him out of the running.

 

So that leaves Glenn and Maggie.  And they are why I think this was a no win situation.  The show has been trying to sell that they are the hope for a future. They found love in the Zombie apocalypse. They decided to have a kid.  Except they created a pretty healthy, stable, and loving family unit with Rick, Michonne, Carl, and Judith.  So even if Glenn or Maggie dies, there is still this other example of hope. And Glenn isn't really in the inner circle.  Being Rick's Jiminy Cricket every other season doesn't make for a devastating loss to Rick and the group. On top of that, they decided to have Glenn kill a person so he is no longer an "innocent".

 

I probably blaspheme, but they should have dumped this iconic moment in the middle of a season.  That would have freaked everyone the hell out because if Negan's introduction is just a normal episode then what the hell is in store for us in the finales/premieres.

[Ohwell]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but Negan reminds me of Jim Jones.

[molshoop]

 

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but Negan reminds me of Jim Jones.

 

          Do you think all of his followers would commit suicide on his orders ? (That's what drinking the kool aid

          actually means)

 

         I haven't read the comics, so I don't know if his followers are brainwashed, afraid of him or

         just happen to agree with his ideas.

 

         Or do you just think that JDM looks like Jim Jones?

[Cosmocrush]

I'm surprised Abraham didn't mouth off at Negan to attempt to provoke him into killing him to spare the others. It seems like the sort of thing Abraham would do.

I'd agree before he decided he loved Sasha and wanted to have a future [family] with her; now not so much

[Ohwell]

          Do you think all of his followers would commit suicide on his orders ? (That's what drinking the kool aid

          actually means)

 

         I haven't read the comics, so I don't know if his followers are brainwashed, afraid of him or

         just happen to agree with his ideas.

 

         Or do you just think that JDM looks like Jim Jones?

Oh I know what drinking the kool aid means; I remember quite well what happened in Guyana.  I think that Negan has the charisma of a Jim Jones and while he doesn't look exactly like him, they both have dark hair and I think of Negan as a more attractive version of him.  As to whether Negan's followers would commit suicide?  I don't know.  As far as drinking the kool aid goes, hell, that could apply to Rick's followers as well as Negans if we're talking about sometimes blindly following a leader. 

[molshoop]

 

Oh I know what drinking the kool aid means; I remember quite well what happened in Guyana

 

         I'm always thinking that everyone who watches this show is much younger than I am. I talk about the show

         with two of my grandchildren.  The other two decided all three of us are weird for liking it.

 

         So, sorry about making an assumption.  I do think some young people use the phrase without knowing

         where it comes from. And those horrific images come back to me me whenever I hear it.

[Yemayah]

I don't do spoilers and I know nothing of the comics. I'm just speculating here.  I don’t believe that Negan feels threatened by the strongest, biggest or most defiant-appearing of the ASZ captives such that he would pick someone like Abe to kill outright.  More likely they present a challenge to be subdued and subjugated by exercising his ruthlessness, authority and control.  It is usually the perception of weakness- and often the act of pleading for mercy- which excites/escalates violent sociopaths and predators.  While it remains to be seen how children, the sick and the elderly fit and fare (if at all) within his group, it appears that Negan’s people must be strong, stealthy, and have the desired survival capabilities.  It seems Negan would have little use for the sick or the physically or emotionally weak as well as those who break his rules.

 

A group that retains some humanity in apocalyptic times most likely looks after the youngest, weakest or sickest of their group. Predators, terrorist, slavers, hijackers, cartel leaders, etc, exploit that.  While it seems that Negan can quickly size someone up, particularly those in a vulnerable state, he cannot know the various relationship dynamics of Rick's group to choose who to kill, i.e., whose violent demise would have the most impact on Rick and his group as a whole. Negan would have to rely on prior intel (he knows Rick is the leader), behavioral cues (i.e., Glen’s outburst), or immediate notice of what is obvious:  who and how many are attentive to carrying Maggie through arduous and dangerous territory, and their determination to get her to where she needs to get help. This points to Maggie as being a likely target for Lucillization.  Her death-or Carl’s- would appear to be the most horrific, the most punishing to Rick.

 

Demoralize, punish, humiliate, emasculate, physically limit, and break the apparent leader, thus demonstrating that Rick is powerless to protect them, but only just enough that his group will still look to Rick for cues on surviving in their new reality, especially the big, strong and defiant ones, who can always be disposed of later if they cannot be controlled.  Keep their leader alive but hold other dire threats (i.e., Carl) over his head to force him to keep his people in line as they are being indoctrinated.

 

Negan did say he did not want to kill his future workers, save for whoever has to pay the price for the killing of his people.  It may just be semantics, but Negan actually said he would “beat the holy hell” out of that unfortunate person.  Does that imply that Negan plans to severely maim the person, but if he/she dies, so be it?  Could all the blows have been to limbs as well as to head and face?   Will Negan take out more than one person (Maggie and Glen)? I would not put it past the creative team.  Neither do I believe that Carl is exempt just because Negan made that threat about reaction.

 

Maybe I am mistaken, but up until Rick reacted, I thought Negan was looking at Aaron when he asked if Carl was his, since Carl was next to Aaron.  Did anyone else think that?

[Sighed I]

I don't do spoilers and I know nothing of the comics. I'm just speculating here.

 

I was going to take this to the Season 7 Anticipation thread, then I remembered you aren't reading spoilers (though the only thing being spoiled thus far is Season 6, in case you're curious), so I will reply to your post here.

 

I don’t believe that Negan feels threatened by the strongest, biggest or most defiant-appearing of the ASZ captives such that he would pick someone like Abe to kill outright.  More likely they present a challenge to be subdued and subjugated by exercising his ruthlessness, authority and control.  It is usually the perception of weakness- and often the act of pleading for mercy- which excites/escalates violent sociopaths and predators.  While it remains to be seen how children, the sick and the elderly fit and fare (if at all) within his group, it appears that Negan’s people must be strong, stealthy, and have the desired survival capabilities.  It seems Negan would have little use for the sick or the physically or emotionally weak as well as those who break his rules.

 

Demoralize, punish, humiliate, emasculate, physically limit, and break the apparent leader, thus demonstrating that Rick is powerless to protect them, but only just enough that his group will still look to Rick for cues on surviving in their new reality, especially the big, strong and defiant ones, who can always be disposed of later if they cannot be controlled.  Keep their leader alive but hold other dire threats (i.e., Carl) over his head to force him to keep his people in line as they are being indoctrinated.

 

A group that retains some humanity in apocalyptic times most likely looks after the youngest, weakest or sickest of their group. Predators, terrorist, slavers, hijackers, cartel leaders, etc, exploit that.  While it seems that Negan can quickly size someone up, particularly those in a vulnerable state, he cannot know the various relationship dynamics of Rick's group to choose who to kill, i.e., whose violent demise would have the most impact on Rick and his group as a whole. Negan would have to rely on prior intel (he knows Rick is the leader), behavioral cues (i.e., Glen’s outburst), or immediate notice of what is obvious:  who and how many are attentive to carrying Maggie through arduous and dangerous territory, and their determination to get her to where she needs to get help. This points to Maggie as being a likely target for Lucillization.  Her death-or Carl’s- would appear to be the most horrific, the most punishing to Rick.

 

You make some interesting points, particularly about psychopaths feeding off the perceived weakness of others. I believe behavioral clues factor heavily when Negan chooses his victim, along with any intel his people may have gathered prior to the first meeting of another group.

 

That said, in order to have amassed and held onto so much power, Negan has to have more self-control than to strike down the weakest individual simply because they are or seem to be the weakest, IMO. Unless of course, he believes that individual's demise would have the greatest impact on the group. Certainly many communities would have those in need of protection, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Saviors have also conquered groups comprised solely of healthy, tough survivors. I believe the "type" of person he chooses varies from group to group.

 

Upthread Nashville nicely summarizes why I think this is the case:

 

A perfect example of what happens when a tactical thinker (Rick) goes head-to-head against a strategic thinker (Negan). Tactical is reactive, while strategic is proactive. Negan's strategy wasn't much different than that of Gareth's in Terminus, when the Termites used gunfire to herd CDB exactly where they wanted them; the only difference was scale.

 

As for the complaints about the astounding amount of work Negan put into capturing an RV...? Negan wasn't capturing an RV - he was capturing the entire community of Alexandria, and he knew it. Such was also the psychological warfare game Negan was playing with the over-the-top histrionics (the log blockade, the huge increases in manpower at each successive roadblock, etc.). Negan wanted to communicate as clearly as possible he had depths of resources (including manpower) CDB couldn't even begin to comprehend - resources which could and would come down on CDB and the ASZ like an avalanche at the first sign of resistance.

 

A group like Hilltop (based on what we've seen thus far), or ASZ pre-CBD wouldn't require such enormous planning and expediture of manpower and resources to get their point across. In their case, choosing a particularly vulnerable individual, as you suggest, would work nicely. For a group like Rick's, brutalizing the helpless may only serve to inflame them to resist or otherwise undermine the Saviors. I think Negan's primarily interested in a steady flow of supplies with as little resistance as possible.

 

Yes, he needs enough healthy, strong individuals to do the heavy lifting, but the easily controlled also serve a purpose. The threat of harm to them is a good way of keeping the stronger members in line. Also, the Saviors want goods, scavenged, stolen and/or produced. A noncombatant can grow food, raise livestock, take care of the sick, injured and/or young, create or repair things, etc., leaving the fittest and toughest free for other purposes.

 

Negan did say he did not want to kill his future workers, save for whoever has to pay the price for the killing of his people.  It may just be semantics, but Negan actually said he would “beat the holy hell” out of that unfortunate person.  Does that imply that Negan plans to severely maim the person, but if he/she dies, so be it?  Could all the blows have been to limbs as well as to head and face?   Will Negan take out more than one person (Maggie and Glen)? I would not put it past the creative team.  Neither do I believe that Carl is exempt just because Negan made that threat about reaction.

 

Given the angle of the blows and the increasingly "meaty" sounds (as another poster so gruesomely and accurately put it) when the screen goes black, no way was it a "simple" maiming. The dozen+ Polaroids we saw in Not Tomorrow Yet strongly suggest brain bashing is standard procedure. This is one of several reasons I can't see Carl being the victim. The Saviors can't feed Carl's eye to Rick if his head is obliterated.

 

If any group needed to "pay the price", it was Rick's. CDB killed a lot of his people, on more than one occasion.

 

 

Maybe I am mistaken, but up until Rick reacted, I thought Negan was looking at Aaron when he asked if Carl was his, since Carl was next to Aaron.  Did anyone else think that?

 

Negan addresses Carl as "Kid" from the very beginning, and he's the only one young enough,  IMO, to be Rick's son. To me Aaron looks at least 30, Rick in his early to mid-40s. I'm confident Negan was always referring to Carl.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Sighed I

[Cosmocrush]

I don't do spoilers and I know nothing of the comics. I'm just speculating here.  I don’t believe that Negan feels threatened by the strongest, biggest or most defiant-appearing of the ASZ captives such that he would pick someone like Abe to kill outright.  More likely they present a challenge to be subdued and subjugated by exercising his ruthlessness, authority and control.  It is usually the perception of weakness- and often the act of pleading for mercy- which excites/escalates violent sociopaths and predators.  While it remains to be seen how children, the sick and the elderly fit and fare (if at all) within his group, it appears that Negan’s people must be strong, stealthy, and have the desired survival capabilities.  It seems Negan would have little use for the sick or the physically or emotionally weak as well as those who break his rules.

 

A group that retains some humanity in apocalyptic times most likely looks after the youngest, weakest or sickest of their group. Predators, terrorist, slavers, hijackers, cartel leaders, etc, exploit that.  While it seems that Negan can quickly size someone up, particularly those in a vulnerable state, he cannot know the various relationship dynamics of Rick's group to choose who to kill, i.e., whose violent demise would have the most impact on Rick and his group as a whole. Negan would have to rely on prior intel (he knows Rick is the leader), behavioral cues (i.e., Glen’s outburst), or immediate notice of what is obvious:  who and how many are attentive to carrying Maggie through arduous and dangerous territory, and their determination to get her to where she needs to get help. This points to Maggie as being a likely target for Lucillization.  Her death-or Carl’s- would appear to be the most horrific, the most punishing to Rick.

 

Demoralize, punish, humiliate, emasculate, physically limit, and break the apparent leader, thus demonstrating that Rick is powerless to protect them, but only just enough that his group will still look to Rick for cues on surviving in their new reality, especially the big, strong and defiant ones, who can always be disposed of later if they cannot be controlled.  Keep their leader alive but hold other dire threats (i.e., Carl) over his head to force him to keep his people in line as they are being indoctrinated.

 

Negan did say he did not want to kill his future workers, save for whoever has to pay the price for the killing of his people.  It may just be semantics, but Negan actually said he would “beat the holy hell” out of that unfortunate person.  Does that imply that Negan plans to severely maim the person, but if he/she dies, so be it?  Could all the blows have been to limbs as well as to head and face?   Will Negan take out more than one person (Maggie and Glen)? I would not put it past the creative team.  Neither do I believe that Carl is exempt just because Negan made that threat about reaction.

All these reasons are exactly why I didn't find anything about Negan or his group entertaining despite being a huge Jeffery Dean Morgan fan.  Honestly, this entire episode reminded me of a Nazi Germany movie.  The sheer hopelessness and terror of our gang exhausted me.   I don't know anything about Negan except he is sadistic and ruthless.  Beating someone to death with a baseball bat when they are already on their knees and no immediate threat takes a certain kind of cruel sadism.   And believe it - whoever was on the receiving end of that attack will be dead  - remember those polaroids Glenn saw on the wall of the sleeping Neganites?  The ones showing people with their heads beat to a pulp?  

 

I don't think it would be Maggie though - I don't think even Gimple would have the balls to brutally murder a pregnant girl and if he did he might as well kill Glenn too. 

 

Either way, I'm not sure how much I'll care seven months from now but today (24 hours after finally watching)  I'm ready for a break from this show.  

[AngelaHunter]

FilmPimp  - That's hysterically funny!

 

Thanks so much for that. I enjoyed it more than I did the show.

 

"I'd let him run whatever the f**k he wants on me."

 

What a disloyal lot they are.XD

[Yemayah]

Sighed I, Thank you for reading and for your generous response, which I sure enjoyed reading.  I can’t post as often as I would like, and it takes me awhile to put my thoughts to paper and read post-episode responses, so I am usually several days late to the party. 

 

Negan has to have more self-control than to strike down the weakest individual simply because they are or seem to be the weakest, IMO. Unless of course, he believes that individual's demise would have the greatest impact on the group.

I agree with the first statement, but the latter sentence is what I was driving at: Negan’s intent to deal a devastating blow+lesson to Rick and his group. I wasn'’t suggesting a simple maiming. The recipient of the bat must surely be dead if those were all head blows. I was also wondering if that unfortunate person was the only victim, or that maiming someone else with less than a lethal blow was going on, something that could heal like Dwight’s face or Daryl’s arm if he is not the unfortunate one.  We have been primed to believe just one death. I don’t trust the writers.  Also, I’m not sure that Negan meant the remark about Carl’s eye to be literal or a hint that Carl might be spared, because Negan intends to make a devastating lesson, and cruel misdirection would not be beyond him.

 

I also like Nashville’s analysis. I’d go a step further and say that, from what we have seen, Negan appears to be both a strategic and tactical thinker, and someone who can envision his “New World Order” and is willing to take big risks to make it happen.  Proactive, yet flexible enough to react to changing conditions; evidence of the organization, discipline, control, no ambiguity of intent, delegation of assets/materiel.  Yet all Negan does would only serve to make him a target of the next megalomaniac willing to challenge him to be the alpha. 

 

I’m also thinking that hubris/cockiness has settled in among Negan’s people, and perhaps they just have not come across a group like Rick’s core band of mega-experienced fighters, which is why Carol alone cut down a few truck loads, and that might be their undoing. 

 

Rick’s people just wander off at will without even consulting him or the group at large, or all the battle-tested warriors go out in a big-ass van.  The writers make it seem CDB have no B plans. Rick and Daryl’s escapade with the supply truck was unconscionable.  Of course it is unconscionable that the writers want us to believe certain characters have lost their stealth as well as their hearing and common sense.  Numbers were/are not on their side regardless, and their collective vision is of a rather insular, static community IMO.  Once Rick promised to destroy the Saviors for Hilltop, lacking intel and real planning, even if he successfully dispatched them all, did he even consider how many more Savior-like groups are waiting in the wilds to take their place…or just Alexandria-like groups looking for allies?

 

Cosmocrush.  I know nothing of the actor playing Negan, nor of the character Negan beyond what I saw or was implied during the course of the season, and I was not impressed either. Standard portrayal of a megalomaniacal sociopath and his gangs.  I don’t get this  clumsy cliffhanger decision.

 

FilmPimp, that was priceless.

[Sighed I]

Sighed I, Thank you for reading and for your generous response, which I sure enjoyed reading.  I can’t post as often as I would like, and it takes me awhile to put my thoughts to paper and read post-episode responses, so I am usually several days late to the party.

 

My pleasure. Reading others' theories and analyses is a lot of fun. Plus it makes me feel better about how much time I think about this stuff. ;)

 

I agree with the first statement, but the latter sentence is what I was driving at: Negan’s intent to deal a devastating blow+lesson to Rick and his group. I wasn'’t suggesting a simple maiming. The recipient of the bat must surely be dead if those were all head blows. I was also wondering if that unfortunate person was the only victim, or that maiming someone else with less than a lethal blow was going on, something that could heal like Dwight’s face or Daryl’s arm if he is not the unfortunate one.  We have been primed to believe just one death. I don’t trust the writers.  Also, I’m not sure that Negan meant the remark about Carl’s eye to be literal or a hint that Carl might be spared, because Negan intends to make a devastating lesson, and cruel misdirection would not be beyond him.

 

 

Ah okay, I must have misunderstood. I agree it's very conceivable he could make an example of someone else similar to what he did to Dwight (I think it's safe to assume Dwight didn't trip and fall into a vat of acid or something). Kill one to sear into their hearts, maim another so they never forget it.

 

I’m also thinking that hubris/cockiness has settled in among Negan’s people, and perhaps they just have not come across a group like Rick’s core band of mega-experienced fighters, which is why Carol alone cut down a few truck loads, and that might be their undoing. 

 

I really hope so. I think the Saviors have been ruling the roost for so long, they were taken completely unawares that another group would have the balls, and gall, to strike first. That lesson learned, they'll be keeping ASZ on a very short leash. At least for now. I do think at some point the Saviors will get too comfortable, though.

 

Once Rick promised to destroy the Saviors for Hilltop, lacking intel and real planning, even if he successfully dispatched them all, did he even consider how many more Savior-like groups are waiting in the wilds to take their place…or just Alexandria-like groups looking for allies?

 

Everyone banding together to save ASZ from the horde really solidified the notion, and it's not unreasonable, that they could survive anything. I'm sure they expected and were prepared/preparing (or so they thought) to encounter other threats, living or dead, at any time. Their blind spot was in terms of scale. They had only just learned there were other established communities. I don't think it occurred to them there could be a group as massive as Negan's at this point in the ZA. They tried to get a sense of it from the Hilltop, but it doesn't sound like they put up much resistence. Hence groups of 20-30 men and interaction with a single outpost was more than enough to keep them in line.

[Lexxy]

I got so annoyed with Negan's never-ending speech that I kept yelling, "Negan!  Your jacket though!" just to amuse myself. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Lexxy

[Raven1707]

The Live +3 Ratings are in for this episode:

 

Per usual, "The Walking Dead" topped the cable Live +3 charts with its April 3 season finale. It was No. 1 by a big margin in the same-day ratings, and it's No. 1 by an even bigger margin after three days of delayed viewing pushed it from a 6.9 rating in adults 18-49 to a 9.1. [18.427 million viewers]

 

Put another way, just the "+3" part — 2.2 points — of the finale would have been the No. 5 show on cable for the week, and its viewer gain of 4.32 million would have been No. 6 in the viewer rankings.

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/04/10/cable-live-3-ratings-march-28-april-3-2016/

 

(still haven't watched it)

[Danielleygirl]

I didn't have an opinion who died when the finale was over, but after watching Talking Dead, my first reaction was that Negan killed Rick.  Scott Gimple said that the death changes everything.  The story is over and a new one is beginning.  To me, that meant that Rick's story is over.  Negan is in charge now.  Negan also called Carl a future serial killer.  What could make that happen to Carl?  The beating death of his father?  

 

I was thrown off by Negan saying if anyone tries anything to take Carl's eye out and feed it to his father, but my coworker pointed this out...  Negan says you are it.  He points the bat.  He says if anyone moves, etc., cut the boy's other eye out and feed it to his father and THEN we'll start.  That, to me, gives time for someone to say something, feed the eye to Rick, and THEN he beats the person (Rick).  

 

Rick had kind moments with cast members - Gabriel, Eugene, Maggie, Carl.  Carol knows he went with Morgan to find her.  Rick left Carl and Maggie with the fact if they stick together, they can accomplish anything.  What if it was Rick's last day on Earth?

[ghoulina]

Nah, they won't kill Rick. Not until the final season, at least. Gimple's crap about this being the end of the story for Rick was some lame cop-out. He was trying to say that this is the end of "The Breaking of Rick Grimes", as if that's the story we've been watching all season. But wasn't that sooooo 3 seasons ago? Rick has been pretty stable all this season, IMO. No, I just think that was a dumb attempt to make a reason for the cliffhanger. 

I was going to take this to the Season 7 Anticipation thread, then I remembered you aren't reading spoilers (though the only thing being spoiled thus far is Season 6, in case you're curious), so I will reply to your post here.

 

In case anyone isn't aware, there is a thread called Speculation Without Spoilers, for those who don't read comics or any leaked information. 

[Irishmaple]

So the season ended a week ago and, despite making zero effort to find out, I've been comic spoiled. My friend's son dropped the bombshell when I went there for dinner last night. He's been reading the comics for years and has always respected my Unsullied nature before. This time it got away from him. We both hated the cliffhanger so thanks a lot, Scott Gimple. You annoyed the kid so much he spoiled me in his indignation.

[walnutqueen]

So the season ended a week ago and, despite making zero effort to find out, I've been comic spoiled. My friend's son dropped the bombshell when I went there for dinner last night. He's been reading the comics for years and has always respected my Unsullied nature before. This time it got away from him. We both hated the cliffhanger so thanks a lot, Scott Gimple. You annoyed the kid so much he spoiled me in his indignation.

 

The blame for that lies squarely on the kid's shoulders, no one else's.

[NeedTVRehab]

Is anyone else here extremely concerned for the women in this group?  Negan's group that we've seen so far are predominantly men, so I can't see this ending well for our girls.  The only Savior women we've seen are the group who took Carol and Maggie, and I was highly suspect of the believability of that plotline, of women being members of that type of sadistic, psychopathic group without being rape victims.

 

The other part unbelievable to me is how such a large group like the Saviors could exist without Rick's group not knowing for so long.

 

Then I was annoyed that all the principal players went out to get Maggie a doctor.  Surely that's a grave tactical error.  How can Rick justify taking his own son??  Bad parenting!

 

Carol got on my last nerve.  She used to be my favorite but they really ruined her for me.  She's smart enough to know that if she left, people would go after her.  Important people.  Just irresponsible, and out of character.

[SharonH58]

I got the comic of the issue we are at now and must say the way the show did the lead up to Negan was muh better than the comic.  i just cannot get into reading them. 

[HolmesUltimateQu]

Is anyone else here extremely concerned for the women in this group?  Negan's group that we've seen so far are predominantly men, so I can't see this ending well for our girls.  The only Savior women we've seen are the group who took Carol and Maggie, and I was highly suspect of the believability of that plotline, of women being members of that type of sadistic, psychopathic group without being rape victims.

 

The other part unbelievable to me is how such a large group like the Saviors could exist without Rick's group not knowing for so long.

 

Then I was annoyed that all the principal players went out to get Maggie a doctor.  Surely that's a grave tactical error.  How can Rick justify taking his own son??  Bad parenting!

 

Carol got on my last nerve.  She used to be my favorite but they really ruined her for me.  She's smart enough to know that if she left, people would go after her.  Important people.  Just irresponsible, and out of character.

 

 

I don't understand why ANYONE has to go after Carol. She's an adult who wants to be alone. Sure, it's annoying to me, the viewer, that she'd run away like that but as far as the rest of the group, I don't understand why people would go after a perfectly healthy adult capable of making her own choices. 

I will say, the way she went about running away was the exact way to go IF you wanted people to chase after you. If she told a few people - Rick or Daryl maybe - it would've been more likely people didn't go after her. That part is frustrating. 

[dstranger99]

They gave a huge hint on who died on "The Talking Dead". They said people would "zapruder" this episode to death. That's the key word. Abraham Zapruder filmed the JFK assassination.

 

ABRAHAM got whacked.........

So the season ended a week ago and, despite making zero effort to find out, I've been comic spoiled. My friend's son dropped the bombshell when I went there for dinner last night. He's been reading the comics for years and has always respected my Unsullied nature before. This time it got away from him. We both hated the cliffhanger so thanks a lot, Scott Gimple. You annoyed the kid so much he spoiled me in his indignation.

 

The comics are never an indication on who will die. The comics said

"Glenn", but they always switch things around on the TV show.

Edited April 14, 2016 by HalcyonDays
Spoilertagged Comics spoilers

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

Okay, so I'm way behind on posting because I was trying to read everyone's replies to prevent from saying something that's been beaten to death. (tee hee) And now I can finally respond! 

 

I've been thinking a lot about what happened to all of the colleges, especially in the MD/DC/VA area, during the beginning of the walker invasion and I've been wondering if the Tron Knights (I call them the Dungeons and Dragons horde) might be a college full of nerds that went Renaissance. It's a cool thing to think about. I've also been wondering why there are so little doctors for being the DC metro / VA. I would think there would be tons, unless they bit the dust in the early days trying to treat people. They wouldn't have had any way of knowing that everyone was infected for a while, I would think, so that would make them more vulnerable as they were taking care of the bitten/sick/wounded/elderly, etc.

 

Negan's group at the rumble rally was a sausage fest. Where are all the ladies? Did Maggie and Carol take the only lady Saviors out? Do they have a village of lady Saviors tending the baby Saviors? Maybe it's the sociologist in me, but I need to know more about these folks. The Tron Knights, too. And Hilltop, while we're at it. I love world-building stuff. I really wish we could get to know communities instead of all the quick endings. I wish Terminus had been explored a little more before jumping out with the cannibals R us thing. 

 

Speaking of Negan's group, their whistling reminds me a lot of the Rebel Yell. Terrifying if you were in battle or ambushed. I think it was unsettling, but I really feel like I put myself in the show, if that makes sense. It makes the show all the more terrifying to me. I was crying and wanted to throw up during the last ten minutes. I felt Negan's speech was amazing and it was supposed to be long to build suspense. I was so angry when the big reveal wasn't revealed because I needed that release of emotion. I agree with PP that it did ruin the whole episode. I think the pacing of the episode was off in general, but I'm still really upset by not knowing. We all would've tuned in anyway so I don't think it was necessary, but that's been beaten to death by PP and I wanted to avoid that. Anyway...

 

I understand that there are a bunch of ASZers that we haven't met yet, but when will we? Will they just be used as fodder when the battle comes (which it will)? Then again, I feel like this show always gives more questions than it answers.

[Sighed I]

Okay, so I'm way behind on posting because I was trying to read everyone's replies to prevent from saying something that's been beaten to death. (tee hee) And now I can finally respond!

 

I know exactly how you feel. This is why I never got around to post on TWOP. They had that 15-page rule and by the time I got through it, everyone already said what I wanted to say! Then I started doing the same thing here out of habit. It took the finale and the subsequent hand-wringing and teeth-gnashing to finally say, I can't take it anymore; I need to vent, NOW. LOL

 

 

Speaking of Negan's group, their whistling reminds me a lot of the Rebel Yell. Terrifying if you were in battle or ambushed. I think it was unsettling, but I really feel like I put myself in the show, if that makes sense. It makes the show all the more terrifying to me. I was crying and wanted to throw up during the last ten minutes.

 

I'm glad you brought this up. I thought the whistling was terrifying too, particularly at night in that forest. And then they did that pan around from Rick and Co.'s perspective and you see all these men coming into focus and there's more and more and more of them and they're all whistling. That was soooo scary, and beautifully shot. Negan wasn't kidding when he asked if they'd arrived at pee pee city (or whatever it was) yet; I would've been a wreck. Hell, I was a wreck and I was only watching it! I wonder if the Rebel Yell inspired it? Thanks for the link to that recording; I'd never heard of it before (my exposure to the term was limited to Billy Idol ;) but it gave me chills. The stuff of nightmares.

 

 

I understand that there are a bunch of ASZers that we haven't met yet, but when will we? Will they just be used as fodder when the battle comes (which it will)? Then again, I feel like this show always gives more questions than it answers.

 

It would be nice to get to know some more of them. I know the cast is already pretty big, and I don't want the writers to stretch the character development for our core group too thin. That said, since they're settled in here, it'd be nice to have a few more people like Tobin or Heath, kind of third string characters who weave in and out. We know enough about them to care and they make the community more three dimensional, without automatically turning them into cannon fodder. And perhaps in time as the story develops, some of them grow into more prominent characters. I'd like to see them do more with Aaron myself (assuming he doesn't get the bat of course).

[Lingo]

You picked a fine time to cleave me, Lucille...while Rick's bein' useless and there's Walkers afield. I'm tired of these jackholes, don't know their ass from their elbows. Could have spared me from Negan's whole spiel. You picked a fine time to cleave me, Lucille...

 

You picked a fine time to leave us hanging, Lucille.

[maystone]

It would be nice to get to know some more of them. I know the cast is already pretty big, and I don't want the writers to stretch the character development for our core group too thin. That said, since they're settled in here, it'd be nice to have a few more people like Tobin or Heath, kind of third string characters who weave in and out. We know enough about them to care and they make the community more three dimensional, without automatically turning them into cannon fodder. And perhaps in time as the story develops, some of them grow into more prominent characters. I'd like to see them do more with Aaron myself (assuming he doesn't get the bat of course).

 

I really like Francine. She seems capable and clear headed, and she sure can land a punch. I'm hoping that she gets to be a bit more front and center. I kind of thought that they were going to set her up with Abraham after he saved her from the mini-herd at the work site, but I'm glad that they didn't go that route. Eric is surprisingly absent considering how much screen time he got in the first few S6 episodes. Then there's Hank, who seems to be the center of any crowd scenes: "sending a fax to Cleveland" and bringing back a bunch of walkers; leading the raid on the pantry, and at least being present when what's-his-name was trying to organize a coup against Rick. I guess he's the Everyman of the ZA. Lately I've noticed a young mother who looks maybe 30ish, long reddish blonde hair. No lines yet, but she's been an extra in a number of later S6 scenes.

Edited April 15, 2016 by maystone

[Sighed I]

I like Francine too. I got the impression she was one of the first of the ASZers to understand knowing how to defend yourself and others was a skill you had to have in this world, probably because of her experience with being abandoned by the others and her subsequent rescue by Abe.

 

If they're not going to give him a lot of lines, it would be nice to at least see Eric in the background more. Even something like walking down the street with Aaron, holding hands, would be a nice reminder that these two are a couple.

 

I'm sorry they killed off David, the guy Michonne, Heath and Sonequa's husband (can't remember his character's name ;) left behind at the fence when they were trying to get back to ASZ (I still can't believe they let him get eaten alive instead of giving him mercy. It's not like they didn't have a freaking katana or knife to do the job, and I don't see how leaving him like that did anything to serve the story.). He was a good everyman too, and if his wife had survived, they might've been another reminder that life goes on even in the ZA.

 

Anyway, once again I am veering into non-episode specific talk. Oops. What would be the appropriate thread for this type of stuff? World Building: Where is it? thread, or is there a minor character thread I missed somewhere?

Edited April 15, 2016 by Sighed I

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

I'm glad you brought this up. I thought the whistling was terrifying too, particularly at night in that forest. And then they did that pan around from Rick and Co.'s perspective and you see all these men coming into focus and there's more and more and more of them and they're all whistling. That was soooo scary, and beautifully shot. Negan wasn't kidding when he asked if they'd arrived at pee pee city (or whatever it was) yet; I would've been a wreck. Hell, I was a wreck and I was only watching it! I wonder if the Rebel Yell inspired it? Thanks for the link to that recording; I'd never heard of it before (my exposure to the term was limited to Billy Idol ;) but it gave me chills. The stuff of nightmares.

 

 

It would be nice to get to know some more of them. I know the cast is already pretty big, and I don't want the writers to stretch the character development for our core group too thin. That said, since they're settled in here, it'd be nice to have a few more people like Tobin or Heath, kind of third string characters who weave in and out. We know enough about them to care and they make the community more three dimensional, without automatically turning them into cannon fodder. And perhaps in time as the story develops, some of them grow into more prominent characters. I'd like to see them do more with Aaron myself (assuming he doesn't get the bat of course).

 

You're welcome for the link! I know a lot of people who have said the whistling was stupid but I think if you really do put yourself in the situation, it would be terrifying. Especially considering the massive size of the Saviors when CDB thought the Saviors were only the ones at that outpost.

 

In regards to the characters, I feel like the only time a background character gets some airtime is right before they die. So now whenever we see this happen, we don't get as invested because they won't make it to the end of the episode. I don't need them to be in every scene or even every episode (because it's not like we see all of the original CDBers in each episode) but something other than a death scene would be nice. I'm in it for the characters, not much else. (Ok, a little for the zombies.)

I'm sorry they killed off David, the guy Michonne, Heath and Sonequa's husband (can't remember his character's name ;) left behind at the fence when they were trying to get back to ASZ (I still can't believe they let him get eaten alive instead of giving him mercy.

Heath is still alive, though. 

[AwesomO4000]

Heath is still alive, though. 

 

Sighed I, wasn't meaning that Heath died, but that Heath was part of the group who watched David die. (I was slightly confused at first, but since I knew Michonne wasn't a guy, I deconstructed the commas and though "ohhh, I got it now")

 

If your meaning here was "At least Heath is still alive, though," then oops, sorry... please disregard my explanation... nothing to see here... I'll show myself out now.

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

Sighed I, wasn't meaning that Heath died, but that Heath was part of the group who watched David die. (I was slightly confused at first, but since I knew Michonne wasn't a guy, I deconstructed the commas and though "ohhh, I got it now")

 

If your meaning here was "At least Heath is still alive, though," then oops, sorry... please disregard my explanation... nothing to see here... I'll show myself out now.

No, I was just confused about what you said. I'm just a tired idiot. ;)

[Sighed I]

Sighed I, wasn't meaning that Heath died, but that Heath was part of the group who watched David die. (I was slightly confused at first, but since I knew Michonne wasn't a guy, I deconstructed the commas and though "ohhh, I got it now")

 

If your meaning here was "At least Heath is still alive, though," then oops, sorry... please disregard my explanation... nothing to see here... I'll show myself out now.

 

LOL. I only mentioned Heath in that particular sentence as a descriptor, a la, "You know that scene where x and y were talking and a and b happened?" I do love my compound-complex sentences though--coupled with an aside or two along the way--so I'm not surprised you got lost. I have a talent for making a short story long. ;)

 

But yes, I'm glad he's still alive. After the attack on the outpost, I thought for sure he and Tara were on the short list to six feet under, driving off in one of Savior's vehicles and all (a mini RV I think? not the most inconspicuous choice).

 

RE: the whistling, for some reason it reminded me of a bird call of some sort. It had a cadence similar to cuckoo, but not quite that. I wonder if we'll ever find out its origin? I guess I can see why some might not find it scary, at least during the daytime. But at night? Yikes!