S06.E11: Sleep No More

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Frank offers to pay for Fiona's reception; when Sean worries that Frank will only hurt Fiona in the end, he confronts Frank.

 

Promo:

 

Clip:

 

[WhosThatGirl]

This show has become like a friend who I had the best and the worst of the times with but whose company I enjoyed but now I want to see them and hang out with them, hoping for that same feeling and yet..it seems we've grown out of each other. But, :sigh: I can't let go, because I know there's still good..there. Somewhere. I just need to stop..looking for something and I'd probably let go of hoping for more.

 

Also, why is Debbie in the house now?!?!? I knew that Fiona would break that rule. So, welcome to screaming babies for another couple of years. And then a screaming child. And then a screaming teenager. And then probably another teenager getting knocked up again.  But also, seriously.. what did Debbie think was GOING TO HAPPEN HERE? No, really. I'm sorry, but the "going to school, carrying my crying baby" wow..no, this is stuff I think Debbie would know is..not going to happen. I..don't get it. The logic is so under my head, with that one.   Also, don't get her hate rage for Fiona at this point, Fiona is letting her live there now, even though in episode 3 she was saying she couldn't live there if she had the baby. Watching her drop the baby was scary as HELL! Like, really, as much as I could have called this being the case, it still made me gasp. And I'm sorry, watching Debbie be a mom is not entertaining. I can't believe this storyline happened. Is happening. Whatever.

 

Saying it again, Carl's storyline is my favorite and seriously, I can only take so much of that. But I like him with his girlfriend and his girlfriends Dad and think that him away from his actual family is going to do him good. 

 

I really wish I liked Sean-tonight I did like him a little more but still.. not as much. But I don't. Also Fiona and Frank, per ERS instagram post from earlier, apparently WHM and ER asked the writers for more Frank/Fiona scenes, which I understand Emmy and William want to have more scenes together, as they hardly ever, but they've never had a sort of relationship so they don't really fit into the storyline of this show.  Whatever. It makes no sense why Frank would want to pay for the wedding.. I mean using Liam for money..yeah, makes sense but then giving that money for Fiona's wedding..what? Nothing about this makes sense, just like last week him leaving a bunch of women to sleep with him to help Debbie and knowing he would get hurt by the drug dealer.. it's like a.. "huh"? Although going to say, Sean made sense to me tonight, it's like he was my mouthpiece via my thoughts on Frank, tonight. Frank's "I'm tired of missing stuff" am I supposed to buy that as true or real.. ? This late in the game? WTF.. I;m sorry, I don't buy any of it.  And I agree with him SO MUCH on the Frank thing, I still have never understood why they've been talking to him past the calling CPS thing, at first he got sick but last season when he was no longer sick, they should have stopped talking to him again. Letting him back into their house and lives is this BS crap, rocks being thrown in their homes and crap. Sean was the only making sense tonight, all episode. I kind of hoped he did actually die after Sean choked him. Foiled again. Poor WHM, what is he doing here anymore? American Crime is calling his name, sign him on that Felicity!  

 

Seriously hiring some guy to now kill Sean.. doing this, there is nothing good at this point with the Frank character. NOTHING! I don't like Sean but having Frank have someone kill him.. or attempt to.. WTF, show. Seriously. I don't.. even know what you are doing anymore.

 

They really just want Vee and Kevin to have drama with the Svetlana thing. Otherwise, they have nothing to do on this show. Either way.. it's just as bad as everything else now. 

 

And the Caleb/Ian thing, nope. Sorry.  Going to say nothing about this. I've already said my thoughts. And the EMT stuff is good, but..I kind of hate that it started with the Ian/Caleb stuff, a relationship that the show ruined me thinking themselves. The writers made me not like them. Also, called them finding out about Ian lying on his application was going to be bad. 

 

If I liked Lip at all, I would probably care more about his storylines but here's the deal. I've always not liked him and yet he gets good things in his life that for some reason, he keeps doing things to screw them up. Because he just does. The only time I've ever felt for him was season 4, when he first got to college and didn't know what the hell he was doing and then when Fiona had the coke thing and he had to do school and the household things for the kids. Now. Not so much. But also, he does get a point for being a voice of reason on Frank paying for Fiona's wedding. But also, Lip needs to not talk all the time. So, yeah, Lip getting fired is on him and Lip getting kicked out of school is on him because of this. And getting arrested is on him too.

 

To be quite honest, I don't really care anymore. About anything on the show. Obviously, it's not like my thoughts on this show are going to change anything that's happening with the show and next week is the end and I don't think I've ever been as happy for a season of this show to end as I have this year. The months without this show are going to be kind of pleasant, actually.  And once again, I feel like I need a drink after watching this show. What am I watching?

[dangwoodchucks]

It's a good thing Fiona is a doctor and could diagnose that poor baby as being perfectly alright after being dropped. Heaven forbid they get Franny checked out because to them keeping Debbie out of trouble is more important than the baby's wellbeing. I don't care what Debbie is going through, she wanted to have a baby. Deal with it. I only hope she comes to her senses and lets Derek's parents raise Franny.

Caleb had to know there would be a background check, why would he encourage Ian to lie on the application? Why would the application be submitted after Ian took the test, and why did they put someone on the job before getting the results of a background check? I guess nothing came through about Ian's identity theft and misdeeds in the Army. Ugh with this show.

Although the Kev/V/Svetlana stuff was pretty entertaining, the writers really had no idea what to do with them this season.

[Tooch]

Debbie's storyline is the absolute worst. I was hoping and praying once it became clear they were going to have her have the baby that she would have the revelation that the best thing for her to do would be to give it up for adoption. Even tonight I was hoping after she fell asleep and dropped her that it would lead to that. But no, it's just all "you're a great mom!"

 

I mean, FUCK.

 

The ending was quite intense and I did like someone finally pointing out that Frank needs to GTFO. I do not understand what the show wants the audience to think regarding Frank. I think about the tearful story Fiona told the court about what a horrendous negligent father he is/was. Then the CPS incident. Fiona has thrown him out of the house ten billion times but for some reason he still seems welcome there...? Even now that she owns the house outright, in her own name, she HAS the power to tell him to hit the fucking bricks but won't. I don't blame Sean for being like "Seriously what the fuck?"

 

I am very much holding out hope that Lip's professor has some sort of revelation that Lip's issues stem from his own alcoholic horrible father, takes pity on him, and gets him out of trouble. I'm not interested in a "Lip gets kicked out of college and has to be a south side ghetto kid again, some more" storyline. Lip's upward mobility is like the only thing keeping me coming back at this point. Him and Carl. So obviously Carl's story will end horribly on this neverending grim mess.

[Dee]

That was a great episode.

 

Hampton, Howey and Goreshter are golden together. Loved that one of the things that endeared Svet to Vee was Svet's hard luck childhood. Vee has a thing for kicked puppies. First Kevin (a big old lovable St. Bernard) and now Svetlana (a pitbull in a skirt). The three of them make an oddly compelling, and infinitely watchable, trio.

 

Frank is scum but William H. Macy was awesome tonight. It was unsurprising to see him initiating Liam into the Gallagher family business, now that Carl is firmly aligned with the rest of his siblings in the Fuck Frank camp. The understated way he played his disappointment at missing Franny's birth was great, as was the way he subtly disassembled when Sean made him confess to scamming Derek's family.

 

That said, I was so glad Fiona called Sean out about confronting Frank to feed his ego, especially since their brawl was a total callback to Frank's scuffle with JimmyJackSteve. Sean's a good guy and was completely right about the family needing to set serious boundaries where Frank is concerned, but he was projecting his own insecurities about Fiona & the wedding onto Frank as much as he was protecting his new family.

 

Fiona hitting a Nae Nae in the church pulpit was hilarious. Girl may have the worst luck in love but her joy in that moment was infectious.

 

Swooned at Caleb gifting Ian with a snack, in a Superman lunchbox no less, for his first day at work. I love that they're so sweet on each other, without feeling the need to unnecessarily rush or prematurely label, their relationship. I did however get a good laugh at Caleb's eagerness to meet the Gallaghers. If nothing else, that's a recipe for disaster. I did feel for Ian getting fired. And despite lying initially, he's right; it's not his fault he's mentally ill, nor would it interfere with him doing his job, as long as he remains on his meds. Unfortunately, it looks like Ian might be about to pull a backslide worthy of big sis Fiona in the finale.

 

I loved Debbie's scenes with Fiona & Lip. For all their reservations about Deb's pregnancy, now that Franny's there, they're all in. It was nice to see them offer their exhausted little sister some much needed non-judgmental support. It was also nice to see Debbie not feel entitled to their help, and be so committed to dealing with the consequences of her own choices.

 

Lip's flameout continues to be epic. Jeremy Allen White was fantastic throughout the episode, imbuing Lip with all kinds of depth, but his shell shocked reaction to Youens setting boundaries between them in his office and his subsequent breakdown in the lecture hall hallway were breathtaking. As I've said in a previous thread, Lip's Come To Jesus meeting has been long overdue. Hopefully his siblings, particularly Ian and Fiona, will be there for him when he reaches his emotional waterloo.

 

Carl's quest to become a cop continues to be amusing. I'm glad Officer Winslow refuses to fall for his abrupt about face. And he's right that personal responsibility begins at home. All Carl's earnest protestations of earning Dominique's love, mean nothing if he doesn't get his own house in order first.

 

I did a binge rewatch of this season over the weekend and it really holds up. There are some definite pacing issues and the deportation stuff with Svetlana feels like an unnecessary plot contrivance but overall, it's been a pretty solid season.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Dee

[ralph]

This fucking show. What the hell am I watching

 

Saw the thing with Ian coming. What kind of bad influence is Caleb for telling him to lie? Get ready for a other round of Ian's antics in his "down state"

 

What the hell is going on with Svetlana, Veronica and Kev? That came out of nowhere and was completely unrealistic. V's not in love with her, but it's not just sex, it's something...whatever. Seems like a sad reach for wacky comedy and more lesbian sex scenes.

 

I don't know what to say about Lip, so I won't say anything.

 

I'm calling it now, if Sean doesn't get injured or die at that wedding, something will go wrong and someone else in that family will, Probably Ian (because he's depressed as shit---if he doesn't come to the rescue and save a life) or Fiona herself. Although this story line is despicable, it's the most interesting thing the writers have come up with all season.

[WaltersHair]

If Lip gets kicked out of school, I'm out. As I said before, no family can have this much tragedy all the frickin' time.

 

I think Svetlana is after the bar. She's going to use the 'ATM between her legs' and take V's/Kevin's house, bar, and anything else she can get.

[AlliMo]

The situation with Vee, Kevin and Svetlana is actually the least shocking storyline, imo. Considering how much Svetlana has been integrated into their life for quite some time now, it almost seems like the natural course of things. It's like everybody's forgetting that this isn't even the first time that she's had sex with Kev OR Vee. She's lived with them before, they work together, they take care of each other's children; hell, she nursed their babies herself. This shouild be a surprise to no one.

 

Nor is it particularly out of character for Frank to play the loving father. He's consistently had flashes of concern, conscience, what ever you want to call them, where he actually steps up and is there for one or more of his kids. It's just that it never lasts, because the person he cares about most will always be Frank.

 

Emmy Rossum was so good tonight. The look of longing on her face when everybody got to hold the baby but her just killed me. Before Debbie starts whining about her lack of support, she needs to consider the fact that she's still LIVING IN THE DAMNED HOUSE and suck it up.

[Christina]

I would rather watch another Frank sex scene then a baby dropping one. I felt sick to my stomach, followed by disgust for them not taking that baby to the hospital. It was past the point of uncomfortable or eye rolling. 

 

I think there is only one episode left, or I'd quit this season. Just cannot get into it, at all.

[WhosThatGirl]

I would rather watch another Frank sex scene then a baby dropping one. I felt sick to my stomach, followed by disgust for them not taking that baby to the hospital. It was past the point of uncomfortable or eye rolling. 

 

I think there is only one episode left, or I'd quit this season. Just cannot get into it, at all.

And then Fiona said Debbie was doing a good job! What..?  She also isn't sticking to her "you won't be staying here" thing now. Fine. Whatever. I shouldn't have expected this show to remember any of Fiona's speech but since I still do. Fiona said it and now she isn't doing anything about it.

 

Moving on, I second your other statement, I'm so ready for this season to be over. It was a rough one and yet I know I'll be back next season, hoping it'll be better.

Edited March 28, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[Grumpbump]

I am used to Shameless pushing the envelope so I don't have big reactions to watching it. But, last night I reacted so badly to Debbie dropping Francie that my husband came in the room because he was genuinely concerned. I had to apologize to him because I didn't even realize how much I reacted.

Very upset that Fiona pronounced the baby "fine" without taking her to the ER. Babies aren't that resilient and you are not a doctor, Fiona! But what do I know, I only have cats.

Finally, I am in the same boat as some of you....too much rotten luck in the Gallagher family. Why couldn't Ian keep his internship? Between the baby dropping, this, and Lip's self destruction, I was pretty depressed after this episode.

Also, one last thing, SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE BABY FRANNIE A BOTTLE.

[runforcover]

What's crazy about this show is that despite all of the times it drops the ball, I'm transfixed.  For some reason, this season I want this show on all of the time.  It's still sort of terrible and fails to account for really obvious shit but none of that has affected my transference levels; I'm in.  I am so pleased to watch Lip take on all of his father crap. Love it.  Want seven hundred episodes of it.   

Edited March 28, 2016 by runforcover

[Tatum]

Well this was a depressing episode. I actually gasped out loud when the baby fell to the floor and that was probably the most disturbing thing I've seen on this show. Yes, babies are resilient, but that was a 3-4 foot drop on to a hard surface. Also, breastfed babies need to be monitored for weight gain, at least in the beginning. I get that Debbie may not have the means for that, but then use some fucking formula, particularly when your siblings bring it home for you. Deb is letting her pride potentially starve her baby. I was hoping that the finale has Debbie placing Frannie for adoption.

 

Also, I get that Debbie is exhausted and hormonal, but she really needs to stop being such a bitch to Fiona.

 

While I understand Sean's point about Frank quasi blackmailing Derek's parents may have long lasting consequences for baby Frannie, they should be paying. Granted, the money should go towards the baby, and Frank doesn't need to be involved at all, but did Derek's parents really think that by sending him to a different state they could absolve him and themselves of any financial responsibility? I thought the whole point of the cliffhanger from an early episode this season was that the parents were going to talk to Debbie about a plan. They seemed like responsible people and they should be paying some kind of support, not because Frank is making noises about statutory rape (which still makes no sense to me if both kids are underage), but because it's the right thing to do.

 

Can Ian get a break? please? That woman seemed to be wavering so I am hoping she overlooks this but I am guessing she won't.

 

Lip continues to be his own worst enemy. The professor fucked up royally by getting drunk in front of his TA and having Lip cover for him so often, but he admitted to that and told Lip he could still have the job (and his scholarship) if they could return to a professional working relationship. Naturally Lip had to burn that bridge as well.

[preeya]

So, where is Daddy Frank getting all that cash? He can't be collecting that much begging with Liam and selling old clothes. I have a big problem with this.

[Dee]

He scammed Derek's parents for money, via a statutory rape threat, if they didn't acquiesce to his demands.

 

Speaking of Liam, any bets on how long it'll be, before he joins his siblings in exiling Frank from his life?

Edited March 28, 2016 by Dee

[wovenloaf]

Speaking of Liam, any bets on how long it'll be, before he joins his siblings in exiling Frank from his life?

Well if the last 6 years are any indication, Liam will be in preschool until at least 2020 - so not too soon! =P

[preeya]

He scammed Derek's parents for money, via a statutory rape threat, if they didn't acquiesce to his demands.

 

Speaking of Liam, any bets on how long it'll be, before he joins his siblings in exiling Frank from his life?

Thanks, I forgot about that. But, even so he seems to have a great deal of money that he's flashing about and paying hitmen for offing his future son-in-law.

[LuciaMia]

 

Seriously hiring some guy to now kill Sean..

Gah,  Please, somebody needs to drop a grand piano or a very, very big rock on Frank and put us all out of our misery. Enough already.

And what makes the whole 'hiring a hit on Sean' line is that next week is the final episode. Which means another whole load of shitty cliff-hangers. Will Sean or anybody else live or die?  Tune in next year!

Dereks parents will probably sue for Frannys custody. We probably won't learn Ian's final fate as an EMT. Or Lips at college. (Was he randomly smashing cars or did he first go after his professors?) 

And while Im asking questions..what happened to Kev and Vs babies? Is somebody else taking care of them because theres been nary a peep.

[whiporee]

All I really want from TV is a chance to see a sitcom about Svetlana running her Quiznozs. 

 

I get bummed out about Lip's storyline, but it makes a lot more sense than having him just fit in and coast through his college experience. They're using him to show just how much Frank and Monica have fucked up these kids -- as long as they stay within their lifestyle, they can function, albeit barely. But when they start to move beyond them, like Fiona did with Mike, like Ian is doing with Caleb, like Lip, period, things mess up quickly. Lip has always been able to justify his own actions, but they don't make a lot of sense in the rest of the world -- of course he yelled at his pseudo father figure when his pseudo cut him off, because that's what everyone has done with him. I keep going back to the Turtle, and last night was reminiscent of that -- you start to depend on drunks to be more than they are, but in the end they always pull something from you. And when you're raised in rage, you react in rage, too. Lip's been drinking since he was 11 -- it's his escape route, and he honestly can't see any other way out. I think his only real hope might have been Karen, if Karen hadn't been as crazy as she was, because she could have given him the place he could come back to -- something stable and dependable in his life, unequivicol love without wanting something from him. But she was crazy and destructive, too, it just hit her earlier. And then she did the same as everyone else -- yanked the rug out form under him. 

 

I read somewhere that the guy with the largest IQ on record is a fuckup. He's not accomplishing much with his intellect. he's smart, but he's not driven, and he lives a rather ordinary (and in a lot of ways, below ordinary) life. He's never been driven because he doesn't see any point -- there's a lot of that in Lip, too. he doesn't think his life should be any better than what he grew up with -- he's smart enough not to buy into a TV generated "hope," and while he beleives he could be a lot more than what  the south side offers, he's not really sure he can pull it off, and he's certain he doesn't deserve it. None of them do. And if you're (in your mind) smart enough to think beyond the American Dream (unlike Svetlana, who has bought in completely), then it's hard find the way to motivate yourself to push, because you know it's going to be pulled out from under you. A lot of people call this drive or ambition, but I'd call it the belief that things can get better. If you're Lip Gallagher, why would you ever think a good thing will last? You don't, but instead of waiting for it to happen, he's old enough not short circuit it himself. The drinking isn't Lip's program; it's the self-loathing and the lack of hope, and until that gets addressed, there's no reason to think anything else can help. 

 

Meanwhile, Fiona, is a great example of how the world fucks with girls who are raised by popular culture. Fiona may think that she can take care of herself, but somewhere in her heart, she's waiting to be rescued. She doesn't expect to be rescued, but somewhere in her soul she goes from guy to guy, thinking they can provide her a way from her tower. They can't for her any more than they can for anyone else, but she's stuck in the cycle. When you're life sucks, you gravitate toward fairy tales, and she's still captivated by it. But at the same time, she believes she doesn't deserve it, and that belief allows her to fuck things up. Self-destructive behavior rarely makes sense on the surface. 

 

I think Frank hired the hit on himself. Maybe not, but that's what I think. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by whiporee

[Lion]

I'm surprised that others are surprised that Fiona didn't stick with her ultimatum.  I mean, that was always going to be the case because it's in keeping with who the Gallaghers are.  They even still allow Frank to stick around after all these years of him trying to suck the life out of everything he touches.  Furthermore, that's also just realistici.  People will issue ultimatums all the time and then backtrack when faced with the consequence.  It's different saying you won't support a teenage mother's choice to have a baby and then seeing that baby in person.  A lot of people wouldn't be able to kick a baby out in the literal cold.  

 

I really like Kev and V's story.  On the surface they look like they have this totally messed up life.  But really they are the most well-adjusted and level-headed in the cast.  I just hope it doesn't turn out that Svetlana screws them over.  

Thanks, I forgot about that. But, even so he seems to have a great deal of money that he's flashing about and paying hitmen for offing his future son-in-law.

It's apparent that they gave him a lot of money.  We know that Frank wouldn't have handed over all that they gave him to Fiona for her wedding.  He always always always keeps some for himself.  Plus, I doubt he has the other half he owes the hitman.  And it may be an off duty cop.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Lion

[whiporee]

I didn't think it fit my previous post, but I love the Sventlana, Kev and Vee storyline. But mostly because Svetlana is my favorite kind of character in literature (more on TVs and movies than books) -- the woman who likes sex, sees it as no big deal but fun while it lasts, and is completely detached from anything beyond immediate circumstance.  Her speech to Fiona earlier this season was a perfect example -- sex is something about you, something you use to your advantage. Nothing less than that. but nothing more. 

 

I don't believe this woman actually exists in the world, but they are always fun to watch on TV. And this is no different -- Svetlana needs K&V in love with her, and she knows how to work it so they are in love with her. I wouldn't be flabbergasted to see her try to take the Alibi at some point, because it's what she does. 

[Primetimer]

Shameless spends the season's penultimate episode doing what it does best: showcasing the very worst of humanity and catching people with their pants down.

Read the story

[kathe5133]

I think Frank hired the hit on himself. Maybe not, but that's what I think. 

I did not think of that............  Now I may watch.  Anyone else thinking Sean is not long for the land of Shameless?  I see a cliffhanger, and Fiona a widow.  It would be nice if Frank was the one who died, though.  I love William H. Macy and he's fantastic in the role, but from a "how much crap can this absolute waste of a human being inflict" perspective, killing him off would seem right and just.  His not being there wouldn't really change the show, his offspring are truly messed up, and not getting unmessed up any time soon.  The show could continue without him. 

[WhosThatGirl]

I mean, I wouldn't miss Frank at all. I like WHM, but Frank is awful. I doubt that the powers that be would get rid of WHM, they've had many times to do just that in this show and they haven't. Unless WHM himself wants to leave, I guess.

[sazzat]

I'm not surprised that Deb is back in the house and Fiona has gone back on her ultimatum, because realistically, is she going to physically chuck Debbie out with a newborn? I do wish we could see some more development of the conflict between the two, though, because Deb has got to realize somewhere in her teenage brain that her presence in the house is, by itself, an admission that she needs Fiona and can't do this alone, as she keeps insisting.

 

I like Kev and Vee's relationship enough that I wish it weren't played for laughs quite so much. Kev was panicked about Vee being more into Svetlana than him for the last two episodes and the first half of this one, so I'm not sure why finding out about the sex would suddenly make it okay?  I wish the show could go somewhere other than the obvious dudes-like-watching-hot-lesbian-sex place. I like Svetlana, too, but she's very open about using sex as manipulation, and you'd think Kev and Vee would see it when she uses it on them considering how often she's used it in front of them! I actually like Svetlana more when she has to be more creative about getting what she wants.

[Dee]

A huge reason why Lip has self destructed this season is because he's lost or ruined virtually his entire existing support system.

 

His first love (Karen) is long gone, his reliable fallback (Mandy) has cut and run and even his newest erstwhile partner in crime (Amanda) has recently flown the coop.

 

He loathes his bio parents, doesn't trust Fiona or Ian, feels too guilty to burden Debs, and has never been close to Carl. He's also outgrown his pseudo big brothers (Kev & Tommy) and his pseudo big sis (Vee) is off limits because of her unflinching loyalty to Fiona.

 

On top of everything else, his closest college friends (Joaquin & Ron) are MIA, and his stand-in Dad (Youens) & Mom (Helene) have set very strict boundaries with him.

 

For the first time Lip is truly alone, emotionally, and he's crumbling under the weight of himself.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Dee

[Tatum]

I understand Lip has a lot of issues, but I don't see the professor as pulling the rug out from under him. He was there for Lip, until Lip started shirking his job duties, and speaking to the professor in a way that suggested they were peers. He behaved irresponsibly, blew off a major deadline at the last minute, showed up at his professor's office telling him (not asking him) that he was going to be sleeping on his couch, then accused the professor of stealing his work and made a low blow about his family. And after all this, the professor was still going to let him keep his job (and, more importantly, his scholarship). In fact, he basically indicated that he might prefer to not work with Lip anymore, but wouldn't fire him due to the serious consequences Lip would face. That was actually a pretty caring move. And Lip is an adult who needed a stern reminder that he is the subordinate and has job duties he has to perform. Yet, in typical Lip fashion, he blows it all up. I get he's had a tough life, but he is what now, 21? 22? I think he was 19 when he graduated high school and he's been in college for a couple years. He really is old enough to know better.

[LuciaMia]

 

somewhere other than the obvious dudes-like-watching-hot-lesbian-sex place.

Really. Even the immigration officer seems into it even while saying he's skeptical.

[iMonrey]

I've always found Debbie irritating but at this point I just want someone to drop-kick her off the planet. I think the capper was after she raged to Fiona about Frank blackmailing Derrick's parents then did an about-face and cried "Daddy?" when they weren't sure Frank was still breathing. She is the most needy, pathetic and delusional member of that whole screwed-up family. The rest of them put up with Frank as much as they can but she has never let go of this idiotic hope that he'll turn around and be a real daddy. Debbie was the one person besides Lip who really had a chance to make something of her life (before Ian was diagnosed bipolar, anyway) and she threw it all away with her pathetic neediness. 

 

I was hoping at long last when she dropped the baby and curled up into a fetal ball under the staircase she would finally wise up and realize what a horrible mistake this was and put the baby up for adoption but NO. Fiona comes along and basically pep-talks her into the idea that she's doing a great job as a mother. WTF? Fiona is the only sane member of the family when it's come to this idiotic decision Debbie made for idiotic reasons and now even Fiona is enabling her. The whole thing makes me sick.

 

I also agree there's no logical reason any of them would ever let Frank into the house now that the deed is in Fiona's name. Maybe there wasn't much they could do about it when it still belonged to Aunt Ginger or when they were renting from Patrick, but now? Frank has no claim to it whatsoever, and for Fiona to sit there and say "Get used to it" when Sean complains about Frank stealing his stuff should have been the red flag Sean needed to run far, far away and get out of this before it's too late.

[ralph]

I'm surprised people are "angry" about Fiona not being tougher on Debbie and still letting her live in the house and not sticking to what she said in the first place. I think it was clear from the beginning that IF Debbie did keep the baby, Fiona would go back on that. It's not like she was going to kick her sister out while her new born niece was freezing on the streets. If there's one thing you've had to learn about this show so far, it's that her family (her siblings, at least) is the most important thing in Fiona's world.

 

Personally, this storyline got to me on a deeper level because it's something I experienced. I'm a very "traditional" type of person, as you in you get married THEN have children. My brother had my niece out of wedlock and I was immediately, "I won't accept this child as my niece. It's not right"...but all that went out the door when she was brought around me more. My God, I love that kid. She loves me and I love her more than I can explain. Especially since my brother passed away.

[ralph]

I've always found Debbie irritating but at this point I just want someone to drop-kick her off the planet. I think the capper was after she raged to Fiona about Frank blackmailing Derrick's parents then did an about-face and cried "Daddy?" when they weren't sure Frank was still breathing. She is the most needy, pathetic and delusional member of that whole screwed-up family. The rest of them put up with Frank as much as they can but she has never let go of this idiotic hope that he'll turn around and be a real daddy. Debbie was the one person besides Lip who really had a chance to make something of her life (before Ian was diagnosed bipolar, anyway) and she threw it all away with her pathetic neediness. 

 

I was hoping at long last when she dropped the baby and curled up into a fetal ball under the staircase she would finally wise up and realize what a horrible mistake this was and put the baby up for adoption but NO. Fiona comes along and basically pep-talks her into the idea that she's doing a great job as a mother. WTF? Fiona is the only sane member of the family when it's come to this idiotic decision Debbie made for idiotic reasons and now even Fiona is enabling her. The whole thing makes me sick.

 

I also agree there's no logical reason any of them would ever let Frank into the house now that the deed is in Fiona's name. Maybe there wasn't much they could do about it when it still belonged to Aunt Ginger or when they were renting from Patrick, but now? Frank has no claim to it whatsoever, and for Fiona to sit there and say "Get used to it" when Sean complains about Frank stealing his stuff should have been the red flag Sean needed to run far, far away and get out of this before it's too late.

Well, Debbie is what...15?16? AND she just had a baby and still obsessed with Derek. I expect her to be nothing but needy and delusional. Most young girls that age (some boys, too) no matter how much life has scewed them over still envision that everything is going to be all right and that they're gonna live happily ever after. That's Debbie's entire character. She thinks she's going to be a great mother and her and Franny or going to be fine, for no other reason but she wants to. She believes that somehow Derek will come back and love her again, and things will be fine with his family and they'll all be happy together. And no matter what, Frank is her dad and he expects him to do right by her, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

 

But...I really did think when she dropped the baby, it would be the catalyst for change that would lead to giving her up. I was already imagining the scene in my head when Fiona walked in. I thought she was going to crouch on the stairs beside Debbie, she would explain to her that she can't do this, Debbie would agree, tha they'd both cry it out and there'd be a scene of them leaving her at a fire station, police station or church.

 

They whole family and their relationship with Frank still baffles me. I'd be done with a father like Frank, and I'd think most people would, but they all seem to have their weird "acceptance" of him the way he is that they don't care. In every way they OWN this house, but don't correct Frank when he says it HIS. They just sit there and accept him stealing from them and generally doing stupid things. At most, there;s a 5 minute screaming match, or an insult, but they pretty much just leave him alone. I'd say I don't get it, but ofcourse, realistically the writers have to keep him around and present in everyone's lives.

[WhosThatGirl]

I'm not angry, nor am I surprised that Fiona didn't not keep her "not helping with the baby", what I'm mad about now is that there are all these things happening that should wake Debbie up that this isn't the right situation, but whatever.

 

They should be done with Frank. From when he called CPS, that should have been it. But they can't, because the show. In real life, none of his kids would talk to him. And I agree with the recapper who said they have no idea why after Fiona yelled at Sean for fighting Frank he needs to deal with it, why he would stick around, I don't get that either. I don't like Sean but damn if he wasn't making sense last night, the fact that the Gallaghers are all like, "someone's throwing a brick though our window at Frank, must be a day that ends in Y" is not a great way to live.

 

And Lip gets no sympathy from me. He made his bed and he has to lie in it. But I bet you by next week's finale, someone gives him yet another chance.

[sazzat]

Yeah, they should have been done with Frank a long time ago, and that's an issue because his presence in the house is such an obvious conceit to keep the show going with William H. Macy on it. It's more understandable that the younger kids would go back and forth on their feelings for Frank, but we've seen the older kids literally throw him in the trash. Their feelings for him may be complicated, but we've seen them throw Frank out again and again, and live without him for months at a stretch. Why would they tolerate him in the house, where he steals, runs scams, attacks family members, brings criminals down on them, smashes holes in the walls...besides "it's convenient for conflict on the show"? Surely Fiona would question the validity of any money or promises from Frank and not be totally blinded by her desire for a wedding?

[Dee]

I think the kids relationship with Frank is fairly simple. For all his narcissistic loathsomeness, he's still a Gallagher.

 

It's the same reason they repeatedly allowed Peggy and Monica back into the fold, in spite of, their relentless toxicity.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Dee

[Empress1]

Yeah, while Fiona usually has good intentions, I don't really get why someone would sign on for that - especially Sean, who could have lost what contact he has with his son after the gun thing. And I REALLY don't get (well, I do: because it's William H. Macy and he has a contract) why Frank comes and goes in a house in which he does not belong. Fiona should have changed the locks when the deed was put in her name. Let him be homeless.

 

And while I knew that Fiona would renege on the "if you have a baby, I'm not lifting a finger" thing, but I'm still mad about it. I'm also mad at Debbie for being in her feelings about Fiona wanting her to get an abortion, considering she is ​living in Fiona's house. There's a great episode of a show called Girlfriends. Tracee Ellis Ross, now on Black-ish, was the lead; her character was a pushover when it came to her friends. She let her friend and her friend's son live with her when the friend split from her husband, and her friend was taking advantage, having people over, etc. (Her friends also come and go as they please in her house, come in without knocking, use keys, etc.) Tracee's character bans a particular guest from her house. The friend said "Oh, so this is your house?" And Tracee yells "YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES! That's what you people don't seem to understand: This? IS MY HOUSE." Fiona needs to do that, and at least TRY to impose some order. (She really isn't doing shit as guardian, I'm sorry.) And Frank being banned from the place is rule #1. Any shrink would say that you have to stop giving people chances to disappoint you, and that time has BEEN up with Frank. (And Monica, but she seems to be a non-issue.)

 

Aside: while I have no issue with age differences in relationships (I've had relationships with older men before), it's a little weird to me that no one even mentions the fact that Sean is like 25 years older than Fiona. (IRL Dermot Mulroney is 52 and Emmy Rossum is 29, but the characters on the show look at least 20 years apart.)

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah, while Fiona usually has good intentions, I don't really get why someone would sign on for that - especially Sean, who could have lost what contact he has with his son after the gun thing. And I REALLY don't get (well, I do: because it's William H. Macy and he has a contract) why Frank comes and goes in a house in which he does not belong. Fiona should have changed the locks when the deed was put in her name. Let him be homeless.

 

And while I knew that Fiona would renege on the "if you have a baby, I'm not lifting a finger" thing, but I'm still mad about it. I'm also mad at Debbie for being in her feelings about Fiona wanting her to get an abortion, considering she is ​living in Fiona's house. There's a great episode of a show called Girlfriends. Tracee Ellis Ross, now on Black-ish, was the lead; her character was a pushover when it came to her friends. She let her friend and her friend's son live with her when the friend split from her husband, and her friend was taking advantage, having people over, etc. (Her friends also come and go as they please in her house, come in without knocking, use keys, etc.) Tracee's character bans a particular guest from her house. The friend said "Oh, so this is your house?" And Tracee yells "YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES! That's what you people don't seem to understand: This? IS MY HOUSE." Fiona needs to do that, and at least TRY to impose some order. (She really isn't doing shit as guardian, I'm sorry.) And Frank being banned from the place is rule #1. Any shrink would say that you have to stop giving people chances to disappoint you, and that time has BEEN up with Frank. (And Monica, but she seems to be a non-issue.)

 

Aside: while I have no issue with age differences in relationships (I've had relationships with older men before), it's a little weird to me that no one even mentions the fact that Sean is like 25 years older than Fiona. (IRL Dermot Mulroney is 52 and Emmy Rossum is 29, but the characters on the show look at least 20 years apart.)

Everything about this. But the Frank thing is starting to lose any sort of sense and Sean has every right to be concerned about living in a home where Frank has the option to come and go as he pleases, along with doing anything else in said house or doing things in said house, 

[Lion]

 

 

They should be done with Frank. From when he called CPS, that should have been it. But they can't, because the show. In real life, none of his kids would talk to him. 

That's just not true.  One need only read a story or two about children in foster care to understand that children can and will continue to love their parents, even when their parents are their abusers.  

[WhosThatGirl]

Well, I'm pretty sure Fiona wouldn't talk to him at all in the real world, neither would Lip or Ian. The younger ones, maybe. Those two have always been willing to give Frank chances, Carl and Debbie are always the ones who go back to Frank time and time again.

 

I highly doubt Frank will be killed. He gets top billing on the show, WHM has never said anything bad about the show and has never made any indication of wanting to leave and therefore the powers that be will keep him on but he doesn't really interact much with the older Gallagher's so when he does, it's strange. I know last night I said I read ERS instagram post that they had asked for more scenes together, which I get but it does seem to be forcing something that isn't there in this story. This episode was the most I had seen Frank interact with Sean and he hates him that much? Jimmy/Steve sent him to Canada like two days after meeting him and he hardly reacted this bad. Sean punches him a few times and he wants him killed? Okay. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[heatherchandler]

What's crazy about this show is that despite all of the times it drops the ball, I'm transfixed.  For some reason, this season I want this show on all of the time.  It's still sort of terrible and fails to account for really obvious shit but none of that has affected my transference levels; I'm in.  I am so pleased to watch Lip take on all of his father crap. Love it.  Want seven hundred episodes of it.   

 

I feel the same way.  I think I only watch for Lip.

 

Thanks, I forgot about that. But, even so he seems to have a great deal of money that he's flashing about and paying hitmen for offing his future son-in-law.

 

I think he got several thousand dollars from Derek's parents.

 

I did not think of that............  Now I may watch.  Anyone else thinking Sean is not long for the land of Shameless?  I see a cliffhanger, and Fiona a widow.  It would be nice if Frank was the one who died, though.  I love William H. Macy and he's fantastic in the role, but from a "how much crap can this absolute waste of a human being inflict" perspective, killing him off would seem right and just.  His not being there wouldn't really change the show, his offspring are truly messed up, and not getting unmessed up any time soon.  The show could continue without him. 

 

I also don't see Sean long for this world, BUT I think he is going to OD after the wedding and die.  That's my hunch.  What happens with the Sean character in the UK version?

 

How many seasons left for this show?  Am I right in thinking there is only one season after this?

[Dee]

It wasn't so much Sean, himself, that Frank dislikes. It's the kids more or less agreeing with Sean's push for order and resolute boundaries in their lives. 

 

If there is one thing Frank cannot stand, it's when the rest of the Gallaghers refuse to center his insanity. In his mind everything is fine, as long as the kids allow him carte blanche to do as he pleases. But now there's an adult in the house who isn't the least bit afraid of, or emotionally co-dependent upon, Frank; Frank, the eternal narcissist, is virtually beside himself.

 

So, in his warped mind, Sean must be eliminated in order for the Gallaghers to be restored back to the status quo.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Dee

[WhosThatGirl]

The show is renewed for next season, not sure if it will be the final season, who knows; we probably won't know until next season if its getting another. Was there a Sean in the UK version? I thought the US version was sort of doing it's own thing at this point, I wouldn't know, I have never seen the uk version. 

 

I'm not really sure why or who I'm watching for anymore, but sadly, I know I'm here till the end but I don't really like any of the characters anymore. Or what their storylines are or where they are going and sadly, I do hope next season is the last, I'm not really sure what more terrible things to happen to these people can happen.

 

Do we think someone for sure is going to die? A part of me kind of hopes so and a part of me hopes it is someone important and not some cop out random not very important character. I'm not even sure if they would kill Sean, though. The show has been pointing to Sean being Fiona's OTP at this point, although it would give her a storyline for next season, but I'm not sure. I also hope it isn't a cliffhanger because really..?  

[whiporee]

 

Well, I'm pretty sure Fiona wouldn't talk to him at all in the real world, neither would Lip or Ian. The younger ones, maybe. Those two have always been willing to give Frank chances, Carl and Debbie are always the ones who go back to Frank time and time again.

 

I was thinking about this, and there's one thing to keep in mind -- as bad as the Gallagher parents (including Frank) are/were, they're not the worst we've seen. Pretty sure Eddie molested Karen, (didn't he?) and Sheila was agoraphobic for the first season -- Karen was her crazy, adult, ass-fucking mother's sole caretaker. So in addition to taking care of Sheila, Karen had to do every single thing for her crazy self. Look at the Milkoviches, for goodness sake. These are the parents the Gallagher kids had to compare their parents to -- as bad as Frank and Monica are, from what we can tell they didn't beat the kids, didn't molest the kids, at least put a roof over their head. Didn't run a meth lab, didn't whore Fiona and Debbie out. In the eyes of the neighborhood, Frank and Monica were comparatively saintly. 

 

And as for Frank, he's a drunk and an asshole and a narcissist and neglectful. But I can see why there's a soft spot for him. He was there and Monica wasn't. he at least came around, and Monica didn't. And in their world, they've seen much, much worse. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by whiporee

[Dee]

The ironic thing is that even with all their faults, massively dysfunctional parents like Sheila, Terry and Eddie engendered quite a bit of devotion from their kids.

 

For all of Sheila's quirks & Eddie's religious fervor, Karen was fiercely protective of her mother and strangely tolerant of her father. She had no patience for Frank and Lip poking fun at her Mom and happily reunited with Sheila once she returned from her travels abroad. Karen was also very accommodating of Eddie's entreaties for them to be close again, until he proved incapable of irrevocably torching their relationship.

 

The same goes for the Milkoviches.

 

Terry, is a garbage human being, but his kids also remained loyal to a fault. He physically and sexually abused Mandy, to the point where she held him at gunpoint to force him to admit culpability in her pregnancy, yet she downplayed it to Ian and refused to allow him to look down at her or her family. Mickey was also no stranger to Terry's horrific abuse, yet he continually debased himself & resorted to extreme measures, including attempted murder, to remain in his father's good graces.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Dee

[Save Yourself]

It's very common for children of abusive parents to still have a relationship with them. I can confirm that from personal experience and in all the support groups I've gone to over the years it's true for the majority of other people I've known. Some abuse stories that I've heard are absolutely horrific, even worse than what Mandy in the show went through, but the adult child still has contact with their abuser, sometimes even caring for them in old age and/or sickness. You keep wanting a 'normal' parent or hoping that the abuser might change or just accepting the abuse and maintaining the relationship because you have no sense of self-worth. Also, generally people aren't 100% 'evil' so an abusive parent might have great moments or even be predominantly a 'good' parent and then have sudden outbursts so it keeps you off kilter and keeps reeling you back in, thinking it's worth putting up with all the crap or thinking you're exaggerating it. We are wired to bond with and love our parents from birth so this makes us vulnerable to want to keep returning to the abuser.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Save Yourself

[Lexxy]

I've never been a baby person - but I had a physical reaction when she dropped the baby.  What I assume are my ovaries spasmed.  And there should have been some damned consequences for that!  It's like the writers ARE the Gallaghers, there are no consequences for any of these storylines.  When the sad music started playing when she dropped her, I thought - ok, finally, someone's going to see some sort of devastating result for these choices.  But NOPE - babies bounce and you can hide in a closet when you're feeling down.  Just leave the baby somewhere within 20 feet of you, she'll be fine.  When your family gets home they'll pat you on the head because you "care" so much.  Hell, develop Munchausen by Proxy - that means you REALLY care! 

[kathe5133]

I feel the same way.  I think I only watch for Lip.

 

 

I think he got several thousand dollars from Derek's parents.

 

 

I also don't see Sean long for this world, BUT I think he is going to OD after the wedding and die.  That's my hunch.  What happens with the Sean character in the UK version?

 

How many seasons left for this show?  Am I right in thinking there is only one season after this?

The U.K. Version never "made it" to Sean. Fiona runs away with Steve the beginning of the second season. (both actors fell in love with each other, got married, and had babies) Fiona shows up in the very last episode still very happily married to Steve. Steve doesn't appear. But then the UK Steve was way better than the wussy, little girlie man who was the US Steve.

[scrb]

Operating logic for the writers seems to be to come up with as many screwed up situations for these characters, heartbreak after heartbreak, self-sabotage, selfishness taken to the nth degree, etc.

But these Gallagher kids are all brilliant, street smart, attractive dynamos who get more sex thN they can handle. Yet they're poor and have some brushes with addiction.

All necessary ingredients for all the hijinks every season. The situation doesn't ever change, because the point is to make people's jaws drop and marvel at it all.

The V/Kevin/Shetland thing is mild compared to him having sex with V's mother.

[Armchair Critic]

I don't want to see Lip drop out of college, but it's only fair that the professor fired him. You don't talk that way to your "boss", Lip was getting too big for his britches.

[Tatum]

 

And as for Frank, he's a drunk and an asshole and a narcissist and neglectful. But I can see why there's a soft spot for him. He was there and Monica wasn't. he at least came around, and Monica didn't. And in their world, they've seen much, much worse. 

 

Lip has said this before, so I think you're right (that the kids consider Frank the "good" parent between him and Monica) but that makes no sense to me. While abandonment sucks, at least Monica wasn't drunkenly crashing in the middle of their house, eating food the minor kids had to pay for or steal, causing bricks to be thrown through their house, renting out their rooms to random illegal immigrants. Not only has Frank never financially contributed to them, they've had to support him. And the one or two times just his presence could have benefited them when they needed to get child services off their backs (I remember an early season where Fiona begged Frank to go to Carl's school conferences because someone at the school was making noises about calling CPS if a parent did not come, and Frank still refused- Jimmy ended up paying the guy off with pot), he couldn't even do that. Plus the issue with Frank actually calling CPS on himself and getting all the kids shipped off to foster care. Really, the kids would be much better off if Frank would take a page from Monica's book and just leave altogether. And it's not like he hangs around out of any affection for the kids- he prefers a couch to a park bench and someone, usually Fiona or Ian or now Carl, buys food that he helps himself to whenever he wants.

 

I hate Frank. I wish WHM would get another long term gig and leave the show. He is occasionally funny but mostly just irritating.

[heatherchandler]

 (I remember an early season where Fiona begged Frank to go to Carl's school conferences because someone at the school was making noises about calling CPS if a parent did not come, and Frank still refused-

 

Or, didn't he end up going to the parent's night, but he went with Sheila to talk to Karen's teacher?  He is the worst. 

 

Interesting how all of Fiona's boyfriends see how terrible he is and how the kids would be better off without him - Steve/Jimmy tried to get rid of him and they got angry with him.  At least they are listening to Sean now.

The U.K. Version never "made it" to Sean. Fiona runs away with Steve the beginning of the second season. (both actors fell in love with each other, got married, and had babies) Fiona shows up in the very last episode still very happily married to Steve. Steve doesn't appear. But then the UK Steve was way better than the wussy, little girlie man who was the US Steve.

 

That is interesting.  I tried to watch the UK version, and I made it through maybe half of the first episode - but the production value is so so so bad.  I couldn't make it through.  I think I saw shadows on the walls from the terrible lighting.