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S12.E15: I Am Not Waiting Anymore

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Jackson learns about April's pregnancy, while Alex and the team of doctors handles an hours-long triple-organ transplant surgery. Meredith considers dating again, and Andrew insists on not receiving special treatment after he and Maggie go public.

 

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Despite all the things I could nitpick that I'm sure we'll get to, I really, really enjoyed this episode (again! several weeks running!) Although there are a lot of things I think the writers could easily improve, I still genuinely believe that this is the most enjoyable the series has been as a whole in several years. At the end of the day, from a show like Grey's, all that matters to me is that it's still fun to watch and that I think - most of - the characters are still engaging. 

 

I loved how Alex knew exactly how to push Meredith. I really liked the scene with Mer / Jo / Alex / Maggie / Steph, with Mer asking for a distraction and Steph bringing up the ring in the drawer (still!) and then Jo countering by asking Steph the last time she had sex. I do hope that we get some actual Alex and Jo movement soon, but I love seeing Alex as a fantastic doctor so I always welcome more of that. Maybe I'm cheesy, but I love all the subtle nods to the past without going overboard (bringing up Izzie, Meredith focusing on Derek's scrub cap when she saw Thorpe.)

 

Alex is always the best: "We lose people and we find new ones. That's how it works." I think the writers have been smart with the pacing of Mer / Thorpe, and I loved the last scene in his car. I don't think this will be anything long term, but It's so great to see Meredith smile. I think they're exploring how tough it can be to 'move on' really well. I also actually liked her scene with Amelia. 

 

.... am I warming up to Amelia!?!? I actually felt bad when she showed up to Owen's and found him drunk. I don't care much about either of them, but I liked Owen's scene with April and I felt for Amelia at the end. I think it just means that I'm enjoying the show a lot overall and so even the characters that get on my nerves are okay with me. I also love the switch-up of interactions lately, like Amelia / Arizona at the end. 

 

I'm quite happy that, for once, there was virtually no Penny. Still, they made time for her but not for Ben who is an actual regular, which is a bit annoying. Why not have him there instead of her? I do hate to see Callie being reduced to the odd scene of comic relief. Her scene with Arizona was nice, though. I just wish she'd be given some actual storylines. I like that the writers didn't let Arizona off the hook for what she did, with virtually every doctor telling her that she made a mistake. It was also nice to see Cross again - I gotta admit that I think he would have been a much more interesting addition to the cast than DeLuca, who I just find really bland. Cross reminded me a bit of George when he came on, which I think would be refreshing opposed to all of the alpha-males that we have in the cast. It looks like we're seeing the first real trouble for Maggie / DeLuca, and while I do think it's organic and makes sense, it just doesn't excite me. We've seen it play out with other, more interesting, characters before. 

 

April and Jackson are a bit grating... I feel for both of them, because it's an awful situation to be in, but the ending scene made me feel like we're just going in circles again. I liked Jacksons stepping up after his talk with Webber (I often forget that Richard is married to his mother) and then it seemed to just go down the drain. I know that Catharine will be showing up soon, so I guess we'll see how that goes. 

 

Overall, I just want to see some of the more sidelined characters get more spotlight as the season heads into its final stretch. I like the way the season and stories are unfolding, but I need to see more of Bailey, Callie, Alex and Jo. I think if they shed some cast next year and keep the writing at its current level, S13 can be even better than 12. With better focus and continuity, I think Grey's would be totally at the top of its game. 

Edited by BaseOps
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I have nothing THAT bad to say about tonight's episode. I'm happy for Mer and dating again. Any scenes with Alex and Meredith are amazing. Only Alex really knows how and what Derek meant to her and how long they played the will they/won't they game. The only other person still around who understands that are Bailey and Webber and they don't know the extent of like Meredith's peers so.. yeah. I'm glad Alex is the one to talk her through this. 

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My initial thought on this episode is ... Owen really is an insufferable person. I stopped caring about his anger, trauma and angst five or six years ago, but that's all we seem to get of him, year after year after year.

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Driscoll has quickly proven himself these past two seasons as a capable addition to the writing staff. Although the nature of the show has always involved too many characters and stories (therefore making it impossible for any episode to work in its entirety), this struck me as a stronger effort. No major complaints here.

Edited by upperco
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I'm pretty over Amelia and Owen's non starter relationship at this point. It seems like all they do is sort of start and then don't start. Like.. oh wow, that's exhausting. I was never invested in them at all but the more they pull this crap, the more I'm over it. However, Riggs is kind of an ass. 

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The more screen time for Alex, the more I like an episode. But setting that aside, I thought it was very good, very solid.

I wish Jackson and April would fix their crap for the child's sake. And I thought they put an interesting spin on the usual pro-choice narrative. Arizona was out of line, but I think "indefensible" is a bit much. Considering that she kind of accidentally backed into telling Jackson when each thought the other was talking about something else. April behaved like a crazy person; for a Christian, telling someone to go to hell is pretty much the worst, most hateful thing you could say.

I liked the final scene with Mer and Thorpe, and I did sense some chemistry. But my favorite scene was the Alex/Mer heart-to-heart in the OR. And when he talked about the "very first girl" after Izzie and how messy it was, am I remembering correctly that the girl was Lexie, and the morning after they slept together, Izzie showed up wanting to patch things up with Alex?

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I was also glad that none of the doctors placated Arizona on her mistake.  Especially since they knew she meant well, but it doesn't negate that she majorly screwed up.  All the good intentions in the world won't change that.

 

Riggs just seems like a busybody and I wish someone would tell him to butt out.  

 

Sigh to April and Jackson.  At least it didn't end with them going off hand in hand about their new baby.  

 

Goodness, that was a lot of bottles in that camper.

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That scene between Jackson and April was depressing. I'm not sure if they can have a relationship let alone a civil conversation if they intend to co-parent. Both of them jump to the wrong conclusion and over react to what the other person is saying. When Jackson says something she gets defensive and lashes back. When April says something he over reacts and goes into attack mode. They can't just shut up and let the other speak and respond in a mature way. Maybe even before their baby's death they both don't know how to talk to each other without reacting like they're prepping for a fight.

 

Why did they make Arizona the one to break the news to Jackson like Pandora's box? Did she think she was being a hero in this scenario? Did she really think Jackson was going to react in a reasonable manner?

 

Kudos to Alex. He was more subtle than Maggie (who had all the subtlety of a hammer) in getting Meredith to ease herself into dating. He is definitely her person.

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I pretty much liked the whole episode.  I liked the group scenes in the OR for the most part.  I liked that Alex knew how to push Mer into dating again and that she's dating Thorpe and not Riggs who really turned out to be a huge jerk with zero boundaries.

 

I like that everyone told Arizona that she was wrong, and in the end Amelia told her there was no way to fix it, she just had to wait it out.

 

Jackson demonstrated why April was right not to have told him yet. As soon as he found out, he started manipulating her into thinking about an abortion.  Way to justify your rights as a parent, Avery.

 

I wish Amelia hadn't gone hysterical when she found Owen drinking because I don't need any more drama from the two of them.

 

The only thing I really didn't like was the "Shut up" "No, you shut up" in the operating room.  I know they usually act like a bunch of kindergarteners but the show doesn't need to keep reminding me of that.

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Maggie's so annoying. She was making me annoyed with Alex until she finally left and Alex/Mer had their talk. I thought Meredith's scenes with Alex, Callie and even Amelia really showed how little chem Maggie/Meredith share.

 

I mostly liked how they handled Arizona. Surprisingly, I liked Arizona and Amelia.

 

I watched a whole episode and several seasons of April/Jacksonn fighting and we're right back there again.

 

The April/Owen scene should have been nice, but I kept expecting Owen's baby rabies to take over and do something creepy.

 

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They can try to make Jackson the bad guy all they want with this pregnancy, but I'm not buying it.  I want Jackson totally away from April. He deserves so much better.

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April is exhausting. I know I'm probably supposed to be on her side or whatever, but I'm not. I'm on Team Let This End Already. 

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WTF Jackson? Seriously suggesting that maybe April should've aborted the baby?!? I can't believe she didn't slap his gorgeous little face because I certainly wanted to. Even though it's making me pissed at him, I do like how they're actually doing something this season with the fact that Jackson has always been one to sublimate his feelings. April may be a complete nutter, but I appreciate she actually DOES something when she's mad or hurt in order to move forward. Jackson just stews and internalizes and can't let go. And that ended his marriage and now it's wrecking the pregnancy. Ultimately though, I like what they're doing with his character. I mean, he's being a complete dick at the monent, but it actually makes sense character-wise and should give him a good arc.

And what the hell? I actually liked Amelia tonight? How is that even possible???

Also loved EVERYONE telling Arizona she messed up. Loved Richard playing dad to Jackson. Loved Alex subtlely helping Mer move on. Loved that we hardly saw Penny. Good episode all around.

Edited by LaughingOne
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This episode was actually pretty good, I guess. I liked Meredith being nervous about her "It's just drinks" with what's his name (I don't think I'm supposed to care enough about the guy to bother to remember his name, am I? Because I don't.) and taking the time to do an emergency leg shave. Heh. And dear God, I actually liked Amelia here. I liked how she immediately sprung into Girl Code Mode when she realized Meredith was getting ready for a date, her first date, and she needed some girlfriend help. Good work, Fake Shepherd. Maggie continues to annoy me. She doesn't get Meredith at all. She's not supposed to, because she's only known her for about two years, and given that fact you'd think she'd recognize that she does not know Meredith as well as Alex, but of course not. And of course Alex knows that the way to get Meredith to be okay about this big step is to ease her into it, to not emphasize what a big deal it is, to let her know that it's okay to bow out if she's really not ready, because duh. Saying she has to go, she has to go, she has to go just makes her want to run away. I don't think you need to "know" Meredith specifically to get that that's a poor way to go about something like this. Silly woman. That said, I'm glad Meredith and Whoever did get together and had a casual non-date eating takeout in the car in the rain, just talking shop but in that weird flirty way that only makes sense to doctors who think this qualifies as normal conversation. lol

 

I am very glad that not a single person told Arizona that she did the right thing in any way. And I disagree with Bailey's roundabout "I can see how you thought you were doing the right thing" excuse. I do not see why any rational, intelligent person could have thought they were doing the right thing, if they were Arizona.

 

And now that Jackson knows, and he and April actually must communicate about this ... oy. I'm just so over these two. The more they actually interact, the more apparent it is that these two never should have been together in any capacity in the first place. They just can't communicate. For a moment in that last scene, I was worried that we were going to jump right into them being okay and ready to move forward with figuring this all out together, which would have felt contrived and disingenuous in the immediate wake of that day's drama not to mention the weight of everything. So I'm glad that all crumbled to the ground within seconds of speaking. I'm not sure how I feel about Jackson immediately interpreting April's confession that she wanted to wait until she was sure as "I wanted to wait until it was too late to do anything about it, in case you would have wanted me to 'do' something about it." On the one hand, I suppose it's kind of a logical knee-jerk assumption about such things that one's mind might wander to, and he does know where April lies on that particular subject. But on the other hand, how could he think she'd do that, be so calculated about it? And his immediately accusing her of wanting to take that choice away just exposes his hand on where his first reaction would have been, which sadly almost reinforces her wanting to not tell him. Don't you dare make April be right about anything, Jackson. Don't you fucking dare.

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I actually liked Amelia tonight. I liked her with Meredith and Arizona. She was quiet and understated which is entirely out of character for her. I liked that she left Owen to stew in his pathetic beer filled misery. He's just awful considering he knows that she's an addict and doesn't need that temptation surrounding her. I was yelling at her to run as far away as she could.

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It's time for Owen to see a therapist.  Riggs told him he was sick, and Amelia can see how he's coping.  Will none of these people ever seek help without being forced into it by hospital rules?

 

I liked Amelia a lot in this episode.  See, writers?  She doesn't always need to be in hysterics.

 

Alex was great this episode, but I'm just always noticing how nurturing he is with Meredith, yet we don't see scenes of him like that with Jo.  If they want us to believe Alex and Jo have a relationship, I wish they'd show some of it. 

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However, Riggs is kind of an ass. 

 

 

Riggs just seems like a busybody and I wish someone would tell him to butt out.  

 

I must have missed something about Riggs. He had a scene with April, whom he became very good friends with overseas. So it's not out of place for him to gently tell her the baby's dad deserved to know. His other appearance was with Owen who has been unprofessional and hostile and IMO Riggs was perfectly justified in everything he said. 

 

Owen's martyred himself to this sister storyline, seeing as the writers just pulled it out of their asses and forget to draw parallels to a whole plane of his colleagues going down based on his decision. But Owen has now conveniently decided Riggs is the only person that ever made a call and is responsible for the disappearance of a sister no one at Mercy Death had ever heard of before. He needed a right telling off and I'm happy it came from Riggs. 

 

I'm just happy to finally have a doctor who's semi-professional in this lot. I'm sure they will ruin that soon though.

Edited by sarkygal
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I teared up when Owen comforted April. He's always believed in her. And interesting when both Owen and Riggs bickered about her. They both care about her, and it's much more natural than this stupid sister issue.

For one horrific moment I thought Amelia was going to catch April and Owen together in the trailer. I thought that scene is probably the best work done by "Amelia". It was understated and felt so real. I think it went beyond Owen being drunk. Amelia cannot be around anyone who abuses alcohol in any way. She's just too fragile right now.

I'm not getting how Arizona could be fired. She wasn't treating April and was not sharing hospital lab results. It was wrong and not her place, but she was simply breaking the confidence of one friend to another. HIPAA doesn't apply.

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I'm not getting how Arizona could be fired. She wasn't treating April and was not sharing hospital lab results. It was wrong and not her place, but she was simply breaking the confidence of one friend to another. HIPAA doesn't apply.

 

Bailey spelled it out. "You shared confidential patient medical information without permission...breaking multiple state and federal privacy laws. You did it to a fellow doctor. Under this roof. In my hospital."

 

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I thought Riggs was an ass for yelling at Owen about how Owen should hate himself when he looks in the mirror because and I am still not clear on his sister's death but from my understanding it's assumed it was a plane crash? But now I think it's more the plane went MIA and it's been so long, Owen has just resigned himself to thinking she is dead sadly, which is more than likely. So, I think Riggs has no say in how Owen should feel. I don't like Riggs or Owen, but I think Riggs saying Owen just gave up on his sister is kind of messed up. Good luck trying to get your friendship back with that, buddy. But honestly, I do not care about either of them. 

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Despite all the things I could nitpick that I'm sure we'll get to, I really, really enjoyed this episode (again! several weeks running!) Although there are a lot of things I think the writers could easily improve, I still genuinely believe that this is the most enjoyable the series has been as a whole in several years. At the end of the day, from a show like Grey's, all that matters to me is that it's still fun to watch and that I think - most of - the characters are still engaging. 

 

I could not agree with this sentiment more, the show has really gotten back on its feet again this season.

 

As for tonight's episode, so many strange feelings.  I was 100% behind April throughout; yes she was very harsh to Arizona, but considering I was vibrating with rage on her behalf after last week's episode, it is understandable that her rage would be more.  And yes, she's right Jackson has no call to try to persuade her to have an abortion or anything else (crazy that he would think that would be an option).  Also, I really, really liked Amelia this episode as well (kind to Meredith, without pushing it, kind to Arizona, without pushing it, walking away from a dangerous place for an alcoholic to be with Owen, without pushing it).  Please writers, please, let this be the Amelia we see going forward. 

 

Loved that no one let Arizona off the hook; loved Alex and Meredith talking; loved Meredith looking so happy in the car with Thorpe, even if he may just end up being a rebound (is that the right word after a death) guy. I also didn't mind the Deluca storyline, it will be interesting to see how they all handle it with the male as the subordinate dating a woman who is superior, because, like it or not, perceptions and feelings can be different.  I'm guessing they'll tie things in to perhaps whatever is coming for Ben.

 

All in all, just another really good outing.

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While what April did was technically an "abortion" last time, it was induced labor with a viable fetus (destined to die when born anyway) and, to her at least, after a struggle, was something she could live with (clearly not easily). Nothing about what Jackson was suggesting could have happened in the couple of months he didn't know would be comparable to that. Anyway, it looks like she doesn't even want to go down that road at the moment this time.  Her call.

Edited by pennben
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March 24, 2016.  The date I liked something about Amelia.

 

That was an excellent little speech she gave Arizona about "when you've done something indefensible."

 

Good episode!

 

 

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I love that Alex was able to gently nudge Meredith toward opening herself up to the possibility of someone who isn't Derek. I pictured him as dog pushing his toy ball a few inches forward with his nose. It doesn't matter if Thorp is a one night stand or just a guy she meets  for drinks once and never talks to again. It's just the idea that Meredith is allowing herself to consider someone else as an option.

 

Maggie, on the other hand, just proved that you can live with someone and know things about someone but still not really know them in a deep way. To be fair, Meredith doesn't let a lot of people in and Maggie hasn't been around nearly as long as Alex has, but I think it's also that Alex knows Meredith on an emotional level that Maggie has yet to plumb.

 

I can't believe that neither Penny nor Amelia annoyed me this week. What the hell is happening? I am going to chalk up Penny to her lack of screen time (not complaining here!) but Amelia is...not being a self righteous dick? And on top of that she's being helpful? Honestly, I thought she was going to ask Meredith, "How can you do this to me? My brother's dead and you're going to have drinks with SOME GUY?" (because everything is usually about Amelia).

 

After all the discussion last week, I am surprised that Bailey considered what Arizona did a legal violation. As far as I'm concerned, what Arizona did was be a shitty friend to April, not violate HIPAA regulations. If I told Friend A told me that she was pregnant and then I told Friend B about the pregnancy without Friend A's pregnancy, that doesn't mean I violated HIPAA regulations because even though I disclosed confidential medical information, I am not Friend A's doctor.

 

I still don't care about Owen's man pain. The smartest thing I've seen Amelia do since she joined the cast was walk away from his trailer of sadness and alcohol.

 

While I agree that April has a right to her faith and a right to deal with this pregnancy the way she wants to (but only to an extent because not informing the father is a shitty shitty SHITTY choice that she made every day for over two months), I was shaking my head at her explanation to Arizona about why her pregnancy will be different this time. Choosing to have faith in a good outcome doesn't mean anything will be different. That's just denial, which is what I hoped was dawning on her as she, Riggs, and Hunt explained the rock climbing woman's prognosis to the parents who were convinced that their brain dead daughter would just wake up and hop out of bed. And what's this "until God himself tells me otherwise" stuff? If she could go back in time to her first pregnancy, when would she consider that God himself would tell her otherwise? After her baby had lived a short but painful life and then died anyway? She's making it sound like choosing not to let her baby suffer was the heathen option. What she did before was the compassionate option for the baby.

 

I'm always surprised by how everyone in the OR galleries just sits there listening to people fight and talk about their personal lives. I'm surprised that it took so long for Deluca to tell Cross he was going to nut punch him.

 

As unprofessional as it was for Jackson to yell at April in front of everyone, I have a hard time not taking his side. He gets a pregnancy bomb dropped on him and then April runs off to get a patient and gets lippy when he calls the ER to ask how long she'll be. Sorry, April, if you didn't him hounding you at work and you didn't want to have a screaming match at work then maybe you should have TOLD YOUR BABY'S FATHER on your own time outside of work.

 

Finally April comes out with the truth that she's been denying for so long: Jackson doesn't count. It took her long enough to admit it. And it doesn't apply just to this pregnancy. She has been steamrolling him and ignoring what he wants and needs and says since Samuel died. As usual, this is all about her.

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I also was shocked to discover that I liked Amelia this episode. She was sweet to Meredith with giving her the clothes for the date, and it was nice to see her simply walk away from Owen without screaming or otherwise pitching a fit and making his drinking all about her. If they could keep her like this and get rid of Penny, that would take care of about 90 percent of my complaints about the show.

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I had hoped that the scene with Arizona and Jackson would be that they both misunderstood what the other was saying (which was happening), but then he would figure out that April was pregnant without Arizona actually telling him.  Then (although she was still wrong to even have gone to the lab), she wouldn't have actually told him about it.  However, I do hope that Bailey doesn't let her off with a warning, but that she gets some type of punishment for what she did (maybe suspension or something).

 

The whole scene of everyone bickering in the OR was a little childish, but I did laugh when Meredith said (while looking down at the patient): 'And I have three children at home, so don't think for one second I don't know you two are making faces right now.'

 

I'm worried about the lobsters.  Did they get put in the fridge or did Owen pass out and leave them to die in a box on the counter?

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I love everything Alex in this episode.  Loved him with the patient and family, taking control in the OR and with Mer.  He really knew exactly what to say to her, unlike Maggie who doesn’t seem to “get” her at all.  Though, I think that’s on purpose. Both Alex and Amelia seemed to know the right things to say/do.

 

I think Meredith and Thorpe have some chemistry.   I’m still on the fence with seeing Meredith date again (I know logically it needs to happen but it still hurts my soul as a diehard MerDer fan).  But, I really think Ellen Pompeo is knocking these scenes out of the park.  I think the reason why they seem to have no chemistry is that she plays the part so well and really seems nervous and apprehensive to go out with him, as you would expect a recently widowed mother of 3.  It’s such a small gesture but I loved the way she looked at her scrub cap before going to talk to Thorpe.  It was such a subtle nod to Derek and how he will always be part of her. I also love seeing her laugh and just have a good time with him in the car.  I think it’s telling the only thing that she seemed to like talking about was surgery though.  I don’t expect him to be around long so I’m not getting too worked over next week’s most likely misleading promo. 

 

Arizona was pretty terrible in telling Jackson and I’m glad no one let her off the hook but I really didn’t get Bailey saying she violated any hospital rules.  As was talked about last week, she never treated April, never ran any tests on her, and never acted as a doctor in this pregnancy so i don't see how she violated privacy laws.  A shitty friend, yes absolutely but not a poor decision as a doctor.

 

I’ve never hated Amelia as much as most people here, but they have really done well to soften her up and make less selfish and hateable.  I agree that the starts and stops of Owen/Amelia need to end.  This relationship has been going in circles for YEARS now. 

 

I don’t even know what to think about April/Jackson.  They both have good points, both about the divorce and baby, but are also so wrong on so many levels.  They are just terrible at communicating. 

 

I liked that we finally got a Callie/Arizona scene together and a hint that do actually co-parent.  But, I feel so bad for Sara Ramirez.  She has been reduced to such awful comic relief type stuff like that bathroom scene.

 

I'm so over everything Riggs/Owen.

Edited by Greysaddict
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I had hoped that the scene with Arizona and Jackson would be that they both misunderstood what the other was saying (which was happening), but then he would figure out that April was pregnant without Arizona actually telling him.  Then (although she was still wrong to even have gone to the lab), she wouldn't have actually told him about it.  However, I do hope that Bailey doesn't let her off with a warning, but that she gets some type of punishment for what she did (maybe suspension or something).

Bailey herself didn't get suspended for the whole bubble boy thing and that was totally out of order. I really don't understand Bailey's rant, of course Az shouldn't have told Jackson but she was not April's doc, there is no way she could be fired, April told Az as a friend and Az told Jackson as a friend, it was a crappy thing to do but she can't be fired for it. 

 

Hated this ep it was so much overkill, Arizona fucked up and obviously should have had one maybe two people tell her such but was fucking four people really necessary?

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That scene between Jackson and April was depressing. I'm not sure if they can have a relationship let alone a civil conversation if they intend to co-parent. Both of them jump to the wrong conclusion and over react to what the other person is saying. When Jackson says something she gets defensive and lashes back. When April says something he over reacts and goes into attack mode. They can't just shut up and let the other speak and respond in a mature way. Maybe even before their baby's death they both don't know how to talk to each other without reacting like they're prepping for a fight.

 

Yesssss. Kudos to the actors for making me see fault with and have zero sympathy for both characters, I guess.

 

An asteroid is one of the few natural disasters we haven't gotten yet on Grey's Anatomy, right? If so, I really think it's about time for one to make an appearance and take out Owen. 

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I thought Riggs was an ass for yelling at Owen about how Owen should hate himself when he looks in the mirror because and I am still not clear on his sister's death but from my understanding it's assumed it was a plane crash? But now I think it's more the plane went MIA and it's been so long, Owen has just resigned himself to thinking she is dead sadly, which is more than likely. So, I think Riggs has no say in how Owen should feel. I don't like Riggs or Owen, but I think Riggs saying Owen just gave up on his sister is kind of messed up. Good luck trying to get your friendship back with that, buddy. But honestly, I do not care about either of them. 

 

I think the issue is that Owen has consistently (unfairly) put the blame on Riggs. He's blamed him and, not only that, but also made it so that others at the hospital have had a negative opinion of Riggs because of it. He's made scenes in the middle of the hospital and even punched Riggs in the face. It's especially troubling considering what Owen said earlier this season to Amelia about how he felt a bit relieved when he heard that Cristina's plane crashed because he wouldn't have to deal with the drama anymore (or whatever it was that he said.) Meanwhile, he's held this grudge for years and put his sister's death on Riggs. So I get why Riggs would finally explode and throw some of the blame back on Owen. 

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And yes, she's right Jackson has no call to try to persuade her to have an abortion or anything else (crazy that he would think that would be an option).

 

He could think it's an option because their baby that died had a horrible disease, and they induced with the understanding the baby would die...termination.  If this baby also has the same condition, why wouldn't it be an option?

 

Jackson brought up the abortion stuff, because it was dawning on him as April talked that she deliberately hid the pregnancy from him so as to exclude him from any decision-making about the baby, and that excluding him from all things baby was exactly the reason she didn't tell him before the divorce.  Because, Jackson doesn't count.  And never has.

 

 

Finally April comes out with the truth that she's been denying for so long: Jackson doesn't count. It took her long enough to admit it. And it doesn't apply just to this pregnancy. She has been steamrolling him and ignoring what he wants and needs and says since Samuel died. As usual, this is all about her.

 

This, so much this.  Except, she's always steamrolled him, even before Samuel.  See: religion and expecting him to lead prayer at her parents' dinner table.

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I liked it, I thought it was pretty good overall.

 

I think both April & Jackson were wrong at times but I'm enjoying their storyline because I'm able to see both sides. Grey's doesn't often show both point of views with couple stories so I appreciate they are doing that this time. I'm also glad to see characters that were ignored for over a season get a story with decent material. The actors are doing a great job IMO.

 

I like Riggs more with each episode. I don't find him any more of an ass than any of the others. Owen has been hateful towards him and turning people against him since the day he got there. Its time for Owen to head to therapy. Maybe Meredith's therapist is free.  Speaking of Owen - how is he still living in the trailer? Was he sold with the house, lol?

 

I've never hated Amelia even if I did hate some of her shrieking. I was very happy to see her leave the trailer recognizing that she couldn't be there. As an addict and alcoholic staying there with Owen would have been a bad move. I know Riggs is obviously there to be paired with Meredith but I wish they consider Amelia instead. I think they have good chemistry (more than he and Meredith) and are a better match personality-wise.

 

I liked Alex's scenes with Meredith. But my 2 season long problem with how Alex/Jolex is being treated continues. Once again Alex was only there to be part of Meredith's story. The huge surgery wasn't about him but instead the OR replaced the car pool to chat about Meredith's date. No scenes with Jo, no scenes just about him. Jo had a 2 second conversation which included a throwaway line about her ring being a draw. We'll see how the season goes. If its like this the rest of the season I may be done.  Alex may not be Meredith's love interest but he's pretty much become Derek - only there to be about Meredith. Its so disappointing.  I can certainly see how people who love Meredith & Maggie are loving season 12 but Alex is my favorite and I'm finding it disappointing overall even if some episodes are enjoyable.

Edited by windsprints
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Does Meredith really have to date? Not all widows "move on" with someone else, so I didn't like all the speeches Meredith was getting about how much she needs to date. This show is acting like dating is Meredith's only way to prove she's over Derek's death, but there are many, many widows who live a happy, fulfilled life without ever dating again, and it pisses me off that the show, for all of its feminist noise, isn't allowing Meredith to be single and happy without Derek and without dating. I wonder if any of the writers even thought to make the case for a single Meredith enjoying her children and career without needing a new man at all.

As far as April and Jackson go, I agree that April has the right to say no to an abortion if the fetus has OPI again, but I think Jackson has the right to know whether or not the fetus is even viable. He needs to plan or mourn even if April wants to live in fantasy land where God decides which fetuses get diseased and which don't based on how much faith the mother has. Does April realize how disgusting she sounds by suggesting that if she has faith, the baby will turn out fine? She makes me boil with rage when she uses her religion like this.

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I just caught up with the episode. I think it is very well done. I don't even mind Maggie (I think it helps to remember that she's still kinda young they keep insinuating it. though they've never mentioned her age (or i've missed it) - I think she's supposed to be the Izzy. and I don't mind that. even though it can get aggravating, I think that we al need that kind of mondo-supportive cheerleader in our lives. though it would also be nice when you say back off - you of course - back off ;) )

 

Re: April + Jackson. I am going to put this out there that I am indeed a Christian, and I am very much not for abortion. Thankfully, I've never been put in the situation where that had to be tested. However at the same time, I do have my beliefs of when it is/can be okay and acceptable, and most Christians I know also walk that line. and with that being said, I do think Jackson had a legitimate point - not so much of he was going to push her to have an abortion - but, maybe on a sub-conscience level - removing Jackson as an obstacle. Having Samuel aborted came up and Jackson wanted it to be considered while April wanted a better name for it, and she didn't want it to happen at all. 

 

And I think it was a very legitimate point. (again - maybe sub - conscience). April wanted to tell Jackson when "everything was okay." But she won't test the baby, and the only figured it out the last time when April was past the point of abortion. - (around 5-6 months?) She was visibly showing at that point. So what exactly is Jackson supposed to think at this point? And I will also put this in a "Me being old fashioned camp." but my heart did break for Jackson when April was all "this is my body, you have NO say until there's a baby, you have no rights."  I get that on a fundamental level - but at the same time... it just felt so wrong, and it was so painful to hear, because April didn't just get pregnant on her own. Jackson at the very  least should be insistent that the baby be tested. If April chooses not to have an abortion - that's fine, but they need to know if the baby is healthy or not and mentally prepare themselves for it. He should at least have that right [in my opinion] - if it doesn't hurt April or the Baby (and I don't see why it should).

 

Arizona kind of just blurted it out - she was still wrong, but se was kind of lead down the garden path (so to speak). but yah i think she should just let it go and wait and see if things can be repaired.

 

The April/Jackson/Bailey/chief scene screamed for there to be an actual hospital administrator. ugh. It bugged me with Chief. it Bugged me with Owen, it Bugged me with Derek, it bugged me with Bailey. they should be chief of medicine. NOT running the actual hospital. (or at least run co-operately together). there needs to be a non-medical voice. in this matter. And let's be honest? Who screamed. "BUT IZZY CUT THE LVAD THAT WAS WORSE!!!" when Bailey was going on her "firing offense" speech. (and she was wrong. Arizona at no part was April's doctor). 

 

i actually liked the episode. it hit all the salient points. woo 

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I was surprised Meredith felt compelled to do an emergency leg shave.  Doesn't anybody just go on an ordinary date anymore?  And particularly someone in Meredith's type of situation? 

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The writers must be reading this forum, because I noticed a little throwaway line about Meredith needing to call the sitter when she realized she was going to be in surgery for 17 hours.  Yay, writers!  That's all we ask - acknowledge that a mom with 3 kids doesn't magically get to erase their existence instead of doing something when she finds out she has to work late.

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Hated this ep it was so much overkill, Arizona fucked up and obviously should have had one maybe two people tell her such but was fucking four people really necessary?

 

Yeah, it was a bit too much. I'm glad no one took her side, because what she did was completely out of line, but her moping around all miserable the entire episode got irritating after a while. The thing is, Arizona is not socially incompetent, she must have known what she did was wrong before 289 different people told her so. And it would have been totally ridiculous if she suffered any professional consequences for what she did, after all those times people blatantly broke all kinds of rules without as much as a slap on the wrist. Herself included, with stealing dr Herman's records. Not to mention Meredith ruining Derek's trial, Bailey going against the explicit wishes of bubble boy's parents, THE LVAD WIRE and on and on and on. 

I liked her scene with Amelia, though. It's always nice to see interaction between people who don't usually communicate on the show, and this time it didn't feel contrived or out of place. I'd like these two to interact more often.

Speaking of Amelia:

 

I know Riggs is obviously there to be paired with Meredith but I wish they consider Amelia instead. I think they have good chemistry (more than he and Meredith) and are a better match personality-wise.

 

I agree with this. I thought there was a bit of spark between them in the last episode. It could be interesting. If they can make it happen without turning into a messy love triangle of some kind, I'm all for it. 

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I liked Alex's scenes with Meredith. But my 2 season long problem with how Alex/Jolex is being treated continues. Once again Alex was only there to be part of Meredith's story. The huge surgery wasn't about him but instead the OR replaced the car pool to chat about Meredith's date. No scenes with Jo, no scenes just about him. Jo had a 2 second conversation which included a throwaway line about her ring being a draw. We'll see how the season goes. If its like this the rest of the season I may be done.  Alex may not be Meredith's love interest but he's pretty much become Derek - only there to be about Meredith. Its so disappointing.  I can certainly see how people who love Meredith & Maggie are loving season 12 but Alex is my favorite and I'm finding it disappointing overall even if some episodes are enjoyable.

 

 

I know that I am broken record of bitterness, but I honestly think that this is Alex's role now.  Like Richard and Bailey, Alex will just exist to comment and advise on other people's storylines.  And like Bailey and RIchard, sometimes the writers will pretend to give him a storyline but it won't go anywhere.  And I don't know where that leaves Jo, since she is really just an extension of Alex.  Alex has gotten his "happy ending" with Jo and so now they can concentrate on Meredith and the new, shiny objects.  Maybe Alex and Jo will get engaged or even married this season (hopefully onscreen but you never know), and maybe a patient here or there, but clearly the writers aren't interested in them as individuals or a couple.  And unfortunately, I really don't see either leaving at the end of the season either.

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Yeah, Alex is clearly nothing more than a Dear Abby now. 

 

And how many times has Bailey overheard on someone's sex talk?

Edited by Joana
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 if April wants to live in fantasy land where God decides which fetuses get diseased and which don't based on how much faith the mother has. Does April realize how disgusting she sounds by suggesting that if she has faith, the baby will turn out fine? She makes me boil with rage when she uses her religion like this.

 

I'm a very lapsed religious person, but I felt I understood what she was saying there.  She followed through with all the testing and all the science the last time, and her baby ended up dead and along the way she made a decision she wasn't really comfortable with by doing the induced termination.  I think she struggles between what she knows as a doctor and what she feels with her faith. 

 

And this time, she's going to rely on her faith to guide her through the process.  I don't think she expects a miracle. I don't think she'll avoid all pregnancy protocol, but she's just not going to go down the same path she did last time.  That's what faith is.  It doesn't mean she gets her wildest dreams, she knows this may end horribly. It just means she's going to let this one thing be, however it goes, it will go. 

Edited by pennben
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I liked it, I thought it was pretty good overall.

 

I think both April & Jackson were wrong at times but I'm enjoying their storyline because I'm able to see both sides. Grey's doesn't often show both point of views with couple stories so I appreciate they are doing that this time. I'm also glad to see characters that were ignored for over a season get a story with decent material. The actors are doing a great job IMO.

 

I like Riggs more with each episode. I don't find him any more of an ass than any of the others. Owen has been hateful towards him and turning people against him since the day he got there. Its time for Owen to head to therapy. Maybe Meredith's therapist is free.  Speaking of Owen - how is he still living in the trailer? Was he sold with the house, lol?

 

I liked Alex's scenes with Meredith. But my 2 season long problem with how Alex/Jolex is being treated continues. Once again Alex was only there to be part of Meredith's story. The huge surgery wasn't about him but instead the OR replaced the car pool to chat about Meredith's date. No scenes with Jo, no scenes just about him. Jo had a 2 second conversation which included a throwaway line about her ring being a draw. We'll see how the season goes. If its like this the rest of the season I may be done.  Alex may not be Meredith's love interest but he's pretty much become Derek - only there to be about Meredith. Its so disappointing.  I can certainly see how people who love Meredith & Maggie are loving season 12 but Alex is my favorite and I'm finding it disappointing overall even if some episodes are enjoyable.

 

That's what I really like about the April / Jackson story, too. I love that I can see both sides. I think they did a decent job with that last year, too, during their storyline but then it just sort of got dropped. I think April gets a bit hysterical at times for my liking, but this season is the most I've enjoyed their storylines in a long time - probably since they joined the series. I don't always agree with them, but I see where they're coming from, which is all that matters. 

 

I also like Riggs more and more each week. I think he's been a great addition to the cast. I'm not sure he's there solely for Meredith, but it's definitely a possibility that they end up together. I do appreciate that it hasn't been shoved down our throats - as in he didn't just appear to service Meredith. I like that he's at least being integrated with several other cast members first, even if he is eventually going to end up with Meredith. I don't think they'll pair him with Amelia if only because Shonda seems intent on continuing this never-ending merry-go-round of Amelia / Owen melodrama. Although maybe her hooking up with Riggs will be part of that? Who knows. At least it's keeping me guessing, I suppose. 

 

I wouldn't ever quit the show over it, but as someone who's favourite character is Alex as well, I feel your pain. I just keep waiting for some actual exploration of him and Jo. I love his friendship with Meredith, and I love their scenes together, but he deserves to have more outside of that. Like I said in my original post, I think if the writers want us to root for Alex / Jo, then they need to actually show us some Alex / Jo. We have about 10 episodes to go, so hopefully there is something to come. I really wanted to see more of Callie and Jo working together as well, this season, because I think they're an interesting dynamic. But with so many characters and all of these storylines already going, I just don't see how it's all going to pan out. 

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I don’t even know what to think about April/Jackson.  They both have good points, both about the divorce and baby, but are also so wrong on so many levels.  They are just terrible at communicating.

 

 

ITA!!! I think that's why their marriage and marriage counseling failed. They talk to each other but BOTH are not listening. When Jackson/April says something they immediately dismiss or jump all over it. They're both alike in that they over react to what the other person is saying.

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Yeah, it was a bit too much. I'm glad no one took her side, because what she did was completely out of line, but her moping around all miserable the entire episode got irritating after a while.

It doesn't even make sense, Arizona's patients are now all pregnant women, there is no flipping way she should be surprised by what people told her in this ep, it was totally just for - drama and thrills reasons lol 

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What's clear to me is that after all this I really don't want Jackson and April to get back together. There's still some (very slim, but still) hope for Callie and Arizona, but I simply don't see how these two would ever work.

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And I will also put this in a "Me being old fashioned camp." but my heart did break for Jackson when April was all "this is my body, you have NO say until there's a baby, you have no rights."  I get that on a fundamental level - but at the same time... it just felt so wrong, and it was so painful to hear, because April didn't just get pregnant on her own. Jackson at the very  least should be insistent that the baby be tested. If April chooses not to have an abortion - that's fine, but they need to know if the baby is healthy or not and mentally prepare themselves for it. He should at least have that right [in my opinion] - if it doesn't hurt April or the Baby (and I don't see why it should).

I understand the sentiment, but it's such a slippery slope and where do you draw the line? That is, when does the man get a say and in what way? Yes, it's THEIR baby, but it's HER body. Until those two things exist separately, I'm very uncomfortable with any man being able to assert his rights over what a woman does with her body. To me, that's an absolute. And BTW, I love that Grey's is addressing the pro-choice POV in a really unique way.

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I am exhausted with April and Jackson.  I tuned out during their dying baby storyline, so I don't have great recall on that  arc, but here's my issue:  they are horrible to each other and have been for what feels like years.  They cannot manage to resolve conflict, they cannot relate emotionally, they are unkind to each other, and on and on.  And sure, it's a drama, but some kinds of drama are just just anxiety producing friction, which is what this is for me.  I don't have kids, so I can't imagine the loss and consequences of that, but the element that has rung true since they found out the baby was not going to survive it that they are a mess together with no light at the end of that tunnel.  Overlay onto that her religious beliefs, which Jackson always treats like an "issue"-- Dude, you married this.  Same for her-- he isn't THAT, so work it into your communication process.  I hate them both at this point. 

 

The last line between them, when April claimed it's none of his business:  good, fine, now go do the damned work it takes to support your assertion of autonomy and your child. 

 

100% with those who are glad Arizona didn't get a pass on her horrible decision.  That was so dumb.

 

Also surprisingly happy with Amelia tonight-- her interaction with Mer was so soft, such a tentative step to being involved.  Well done to the actress.  And great work with Arizona, explaining that April doesn't have to forgive her-- it's April's call, but being so gentle about that.  And the collapse of her face as she got herself out of the trailer-- so vulnerable.

 

Mer and Thorpe flirt cute.  Don't care if it goes anywhere, like Alex said, it's just nice to see her flirty again.  Makes me think about the early, early days.

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The writers must be reading this forum, because I noticed a little throwaway line about Meredith needing to call the sitter when she realized she was going to be in surgery for 17 hours.  Yay, writers!  That's all we ask - acknowledge that a mom with 3 kids doesn't magically get to erase their existence instead of doing something when she finds out she has to work late.

i totally agree!!  But....what kind of sitter can work extra 17 hours on a whim??  I think they just need to have both Maggie and Amelia move out and have Meredith hire a live-in nanny.  Maybe then my inner logical side screaming can be put to rest.  

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Does April realize how disgusting she sounds by suggesting that if she has faith, the baby will turn out fine?

 

This always bugs me. Faith does not mean nothing bad happens, healthwise. I have three kids with various levels of special needs; it's not because God is punishing me for not being a good enough Christian. I understand her idea that she wants to conduct the pregnancy as though everything is fine (since she can't change if the baby does have OI and she is unwilling to abort), but to imply that her faith is going to ensure there are no problems is a bit of a mockery of what "faith in God" really means.

 

And BTW, I love that Grey's is addressing the pro-choice POV in a really unique way.

 

I find this hugely refreshing. "My body, my choice" is generally presented to show how a woman should not be forced to continue a pregnancy against her own wishes. I can't think of another TV program that presented a "I am CHOOSING to stay pregnant."

Edited by St. Claire
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