S05.E05: Queen For Two Days

[candall]

Cat talk!  Yay!

 

As soon as the rain starts pelting the roof, the dogs all look around and calculate whether they can sneak off somewhere and pee so they won't have to get their feet wet.  My little calico, Delcia, goes charging through the doggie door and into the rain like she's Gene Kelly and there's a lamppost waiting.

 

When she's soaking wet, she comes in to curl up on my chest and purr--kind of startling when I'm asleep, but I appreciate the joy of a shared experience.

 

*****************

I think cat cafes are awesome.  I know in Japan the guests pay a very high premium for some kitty cuddling--an experience which would surely be tarnished if the cats were drugged or reluctant.  All the ones I've heard of in the US used shelter kitties, which greatly increased their (normally poor) chances for adoption.

 

[Tip to tell your local shelter:  name all those hard-to-adopt black cats "Jellybean."  It's magic.  Adoption rate zooms.]

[lucindabelle]

Haha, this seems so typical of all 3 breeds! Torties are always kind of bitchy (no offense to torties, I love them!), solid grey cats seem kind of bold and self assured but also cautious, and orange tabbies are total love bugs with no inhibitions. Generalizing of course, but this has been my experience. :)

Haha!

The tortie is also elderly-- 20 years!-- and the others are not. The orange tabby tries EVERY DAY to make up to her. Once we saw her give her a lick, before she got hissed at. Every day she thinks to herself, well maybe today, she'll like me. Yesterday when the tortie was making whining noises in her sleep sophie (dear orange tabby) looked over in alarm.

 

The British blue (purebred, just the once, to honor my late beloved Brit mix Lucy) basically adores Sophie and follows her around. But she can't jump high whereas Sophie does backflips with cat dancer.

 

True to her orangeness, Sophie also loves water, and loves the bathtub. Once she fell in.

 

In Girls universe, Jessa, I think, is a Simese, Shosh is a wired tabby or Abyssinian, Marnie is a Persian, and Hannah... is not a cat.

 

And word, sex on this show is the opposite of erotic.

[Eyes High]

And word, sex on this show is the opposite of erotic.

Heh. They should replace those birthing videos they make students watch in Health Class with clips of Girls sex scenes.

[jenh526]

Who would ever want to try this at home? This show makes sex look as fun as a root canal. I know sex is messy and awkward and silly, but it is still fun. The characters look like they're being mostly tortured when they have a sex scene.

 

Except for Hannah. She mostly looks bored. Actually, this is kinda what I liked about the Adam and Jessa sex scene - they were actually having fun with the role play.

[cherry slushie]

Haha, this seems so typical of all 3 breeds! Torties are always kind of bitchy (no offense to torties, I love them!), solid grey cats seem kind of bold and self assured but also cautious, and orange tabbies are total love bugs with no inhibitions. Generalizing of course, but this has been my experience. :)

 

Yes!  My orange tabby is the sweetest boy I've ever had; so good-natured and cuddly. On the flip side, we adopted a little solid black beauty with blue-green eyes a year ago, and she's very skittish and bitchy, most probably due to having been a stray and/or mistreated prior to moving in with us. We can't even pick her up, but she does warm up once in a while and comes to be petted. But, what's most important is that she is IN LOVE with our orange tabby and he's in love with her. I've never seen two cats show so much affection for one another. They even sleep together, always touching, her little head on his big, fluffy tummy (he weighs 17 lbs, she weighs 7).

 

As for the lore that black cats are bad luck, I'm not going to deny it, we've gone through a horrible stretch since we adopted her, from illness to misfortune, but we love her regardless and won't ever let her go. :)

Edited March 23, 2016 by cherry slushie

[TheNewJanBrady]

I just went to a new cat cafe in NYC--the third one in the city. It's great and the kitties are definitely not drugged. You hang out on couches with tea or coffee (snacks are in the other room) and they have shelves and areas they can go to if they're not feeling social, when they're sleeping, etc. This particular cafe chooses kittens (which tend to be more social) and particularly friendly older cats from a shelter. They've already had 11 adoptions in one month!

 

I've thought Adam and Jessa had chemistry since last season. They really suit and deserve each other, for better or for worse. I like the idea that Adam and Hannah are not some true-love soulmate end game for the show (or at least, hopefully not). That kind of relationship happens less often and less neatly than TV tends to make it out.

 

And yeah, no underwear in bed is actually recommended by gynecologists. It's good to let the nether regions air out sometimes without the undies trapping in moisture/heat! 

Edited March 23, 2016 by TheNewJanBrady

[himela]

I had said in another episode's post that I find Lena courageous and she confirms it once more. It needs courage to show a woman whose body is pretty out of what we are used to see on TV being that much confident in herself. Even if this was the only message young women would take from this crazy show, I'd be happy.

 

Other than that Lena always finds way to surprise and shock me or I'm too old for this show already... Sometimes I'm wondering what the meaning of all this craziness is and whether she just does it to be provocative and "in".

 

Am I the only one who thought the meeting with Jessa and her sister and the conversation about money was just a trap for Adam to step in and offer to pay for her studies?

[himela]

Watching Debbie all season on Survivor, I've been thinking that NO ONE could look worse in that weird one-piece cut-out bathing suit. You proved me wrong, Girls!

This made my day!

[qtpye]

Am I the only one who thought the meeting with Jessa and her sister and the conversation about money was just a trap for Adam to step in and offer to pay for her studies?

 

 

That would be horrible and very much a Jessa thing to do.  The season has a sweet Jessa and Adam romance and in the finale Adam finds out that the woman he met was not even Jessa's sister and it was all a con to get money from him.

 

I have no idea it that will happen, but it is fun to speculate.

[cardigirl]

Cat talk!  Yay!

 

As soon as the rain starts pelting the roof, the dogs all look around and calculate whether they can sneak off somewhere and pee so they won't have to get their feet wet.  My little calico, Delcia, goes charging through the doggie door and into the rain like she's Gene Kelly and there's a lamppost waiting.

 

Thanks so much for this, I laughed out loud.  Also, my chorus is singing "Singing in the Rain" this season and now this image is forever attached to the song for me.

And word, sex on this show is the opposite of erotic.

 

I'm not sure why so many contemporary shows think "ugly" sex is so great.  Ugh.  

[AmandaPanda]

Let's try to keep discussion focused on the actual episode. I adore cat stories as much as the next person, but that topic would be best suited for the Small Talk thread. Feel free to continue the cat and cat cafe discussion there. I'll meet you there to discuss my babies, Miss Honey and Moriarty. :)

[Cherpumple]

I don't think Jessa was trying to manipulate either her sister or Adam into giving her money. She asked her sister for it directly, which is the opposite of manipulative, and even if this was a set up to trick Adam, somehow I don't think he'd care. He really likes her and doesn't seem to care about the money, which came to him easily, and seemed happy to help. Now, if it turns out that she wanted the money for something else, and isn't in school at all, that might be another story. But that would be a pretty elaborate ruse, since we've seen her study when she was alone or just with the girls.

 

One of my favorite parts of this episode was when the yoga instructor reassured Hannah that the retreat wasn't a place where people would try to cram things down her throat, and then a few scenes later.... that's sort of exactly what happens between the two of them. It made me laugh.

[Muffyn]

I'm not sure why so many contemporary shows think "ugly" sex is so great.  Ugh.  

I actually appreciate the awkward sex.  I don't think it always has to be ugly, but it is nice to see more than male-female, P in V, four pumps and everyone comes sex.  I also appreciate that we don't have the old TV trope that somehow people have this super satisfying sex while keeping their underwear on.  Yes, Girls definitely can take it beyond awkward.  I would rather people who are not very sexually experienced see this and understand that when things get goofy for them it is not unheard of than only see things all prettied up. 

 

Or maybe I am just impressed by the flexibility that Lena shows. 

Edited March 23, 2016 by Muffyn

[cardigirl]

I actually appreciate the awkward sex.  I don't think it always has to be ugly, but it is nice to see more than male-female, P in V, four pumps and everyone comes sex.  I also appreciate that we don't have the old TV trope that somehow people have this super satisfying sex while keeping their underwear on.  Yes, Girls definitely can take it beyond awkward.  I would rather people who are not very sexually experienced see this and understand that when things get goofy for them it is not unheard of than only see things all prettied up. 

 

Or maybe I am just impressed by the flexibility that Lena shows. 

I'm not entertained by it.  I just watched a netflix show, called Love, also has Judd Apatow involved, and the sex did not look like fun. It looked like so. much. work. 

 

I get that sex is messy, I dunno, I fast forward through a lot of the sex scenes.  Maybe they are realistic, but they don't look like they are very fulfilling. 

[Clanstarling]

I can't say I'm "entertained" by some of the sex scenes on Girls, but I do appreciate the effort to show a more realistic experience. I suspect (not having recorded myself, so I can't say definitively for myself) that sex for many normal people looks awkward regardless of how fulfilling it is. We aren't always made up, or have a luxurious mane of hair fit for a shampoo commercial, don't carry around our own spotlights so we're lit just so, clothes do not always cooperate, and we aren't all limber. Not to mention, it is not always enjoyable. I like that Lena shows that.

I wonder if Hannah's steamy (see what I did) scene was a send up of all the ridiculous positions we might see in a porn.

[racked]

So all of a sudden Adam and Jessa are fully functional healthy people? Don't buy it. And actually I don't want to see either of them get an easy happy ending either. They're both pretty awful people. I enjoy watching them as characters but am not rooting for them. And Jessa has some nerve calling Hanna a horrible friend - she's been more self centered and selfish than Hanna which is saying an awful lot.

The cliche divorcees were depressing and Im surprised Dunham went there. Also bummed the mom is staying with the dad - companionship is great; but why stop looking for love? What about the professor who was in love with her two seasons back? It just felt all wrong and really depressing.

I love love love Shosh's boss. The actress is adorable and I enjoyed all of the Japan storyline, as long as I don't think too hard about the plot.

[scrb]

The Adam-Jessa scenes seem to be getting positive reviews because both of the actors are considered among the best if not the two best actors in the cast.

 

The interesting thing will be the fallout, when Hanna finds out.

[Hecate7]

I thought it was unrealistic that the hot lesbian went for Hannah. 

 

Hannah's not that bad, and she was the youngest woman at the retreat.

[Hecate7]

 

I'm so sad that Shosh wasn't really happy in Japan. I'm not into reality shows, but I would watch the Yosh and Shosh show. I guess she was in a sense just playacting all along, just like she was playacting in the sex club. And she could pretend to be a virgin until the reality of meeting Yoshi's grandmother came bearing down.

 

BTW, aren't there cat cafe in the US?

 

I don't think that was the deal. I think Shosh really WAS happy in Japan, until she realized that Yoshi expected her to be a virgin. And then it all crashed in on her, because she's NOT a virgin and she'd have to lie about it forever, to keep him. I think she loved the job, Yoshi, and the whole aesthetic of Japan, but she couldn't keep lying to Yoshi, and certainly not to his grandmother.

 

I think Hannah felt something at first, when she was up on her straight arms above the other girl. At first I thought Hannah was really turned on by the foreplay but grossed out by the actual going down, like that Garfunkel and Oates song about being bi.

But she didn't brush her teeth after? Or did she? Are we meant to wonder? Or am I remembering the scenes out of order? If you were that grossed out, wouldn't you want to brush your teeth? You certainly wouldn't want to keep tasting that all night and when you woke up. Are we supposed to think she secretly liked it? And that girl cried and she didn't even react. Can't figure Hannah out.

 

 

I don't think Hannah likes sex. She wants to, she imagines she will, but she just is bored by the whole thing.

 

I was really, really disappointed by the way the women at the retreat all refused to validate Hannah's Mom. That was kind of mean and catty. They don't really want gay husbands. They just didn't want to let her win the "my awful man story is the worst one here" contest they had going on.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Hecate7

[himela]

The cliche divorcees were depressing and Im surprised Dunham went there. Also bummed the mom is staying with the dad - companionship is great; but why stop looking for love? What about the professor who was in love with her two seasons back? It just felt all wrong and really depressing.

 

 

I was really, really disappointed by the way the women at the retreat all refused to validate Hannah's Mom. That was kind of mean and catty. They don't really want gay husbands. They just didn't want to let her win the "my awful man story is the worst one here" contest they had going on.

 

I totally disagree. I think THIS is the reality. Women at this age care more for companionship, friendship and someone to trust rather than having a passionate love story with lots of sex. Of course it is depressing if you think about it but lets be honest; how possible is it that a woman of 60 years old finds a kind, polite, healthy SINGLE man near to her age? Even if she does, imagine all the package he must bring with him. And I'm pretty sure a 60 years old man will prefer a much younger woman, if he has the option. So yeah, in my eyes Hannah's dad is the ideal man for Hannah's mom. They have the same history, a daughter to share, they know each other's flaws and they are ok with them, they are comfortable around each other and they have same interests.  If Hannah's dad can have sex with his wife being a gay man, then good for him. As someone mentioned an open marriage is the best solution. And if love comes her way, she can reconsider her decision.

[Hecate7]

In all my years of dishing the dirt with women about marriage and divorce, nobody has ever expressed envy for that one woman whose husband is gay rather than shacking up with another woman. Nobody has ever said "oh, I WISH mine were gay." Generally what women that age want is for their husband to just love them and stay with them. I still find that scene very weird. Normally when a woman shares that her husband is gay people do express some sympathy. I thought their reaction to her was both weirdly cold and possibly a bit unrealistic. Women who don't care about sex in their maturity are usually the same ones who didn't care about it in their youth.

 

Why would a woman who didn't want her husband cheating with women because a disease, assume that cheating with a man is any safer? It's not. It's about the same, really. It's also not really safer emotionally.

 

BTW, if Hannah's Dad can have sex with his wife, then he is not gay. He is bi. That is what people who can have sex with either gender are called.

 

In my experience, women in their sixties are actually having a lot easier time of it finding a man than their daughters or granddaughters---that generation divorced a lot and now are being widowed, and so they're pairing up at fantastic rates.

[himela]

In all my years of dishing the dirt with women about marriage and divorce, nobody has ever expressed envy for that one woman whose husband is gay rather than shacking up with another woman. Nobody has ever said "oh, I WISH mine were gay." Generally what women that age want is for their husband to just love them and stay with them. I still find that scene very weird. Normally when a woman shares that her husband is gay people do express some sympathy. I thought their reaction to her was both weirdly cold and possibly a bit unrealistic. Women who don't care about sex in their maturity are usually the same ones who didn't care about it in their youth.

 

I'm sure what these women meant was "I wish mine was gay" COMPARED to more serious things like divorce, addictions, indifference, bad behavior and so on. A gay (or even better bi) man is in my eyes a better option than all the above. At least he would want to stay with his wife if she was ok with it. If this happened to me I would be sadder with the idea of my marriage being a lie rather than him being gay. You said it yourself "Generally what women that age want is for their husband to just love them and stay with them.". Who cares if he is gay or bi or whatever. The sexual period is over and they have more serious stuff to care about.

[Hecate7]

I'm sure what these women meant was "I wish mine was gay" COMPARED to more serious things like divorce, addictions, indifference, bad behavior and so on. A gay (or even better bi) man is in my eyes a better option than all the above. At least he would want to stay with his wife if she was ok with it. If this happened to me I would be sadder with the idea of my marriage being a lie rather than him being gay. You said it yourself "Generally what women that age want is for their husband to just love them and stay with them.". Who cares if he is gay or bi or whatever. The sexual period is over and they have more serious stuff to care about.

 

Unless something is very wrong with your body, as does happen to some women, and you have atrophy or some other disorder, the sexual period is not over, and really never is over. Old people report having more sex, and better sex, than when they were young, probably because they're not expecting perfection and because they've finally figured out how to do it so that it's enjoyable for them.

 

Constantly cheating with other men is just not something most women want in their marriage. I still do not get why that's ok but cheating with another woman isn't.

[racked]

Unless something is very wrong with your body, as does happen to some women, and you have atrophy or some other disorder, the sexual period is not over, and really never is over. Old people report having more sex, and better sex, than when they were young, probably because they're not expecting perfection and because they've finally figured out how to do it so that it's enjoyable for them.

 

Constantly cheating with other men is just not something most women want in their marriage. I still do not get why that's ok but cheating with another woman isn't.

 

I really don't think it is or would be for almost anyone. That's why that scene bugged me so much - the idea that all these divorcees wish their husbands were off barebacking with strangers they met online? I mean...no. I've known more than a few closeted, married gay men (I'm a gay man) and not once have their wives been thrilled when they came out.  I think for most it felt like more of a betrayal than if they had been cheating with a woman, because it invalidated their marriage in a sense. Maybe Hannah's mother doesn't feel that way, but what I got from that scene was hearing how sad and pathetic those other women are made her too afraid to leave her husband.  Which is just sad. Being alone is not bad. It doesn't mean he couldn't be in her life as her dear friend and companion. And it just didn't ring true to me for a woman who knows she has other options. It felt like she was giving up on life, which I find sad. Maybe that part is realistic, but most women I know would not be capable of staying in a marriage like that. I found the whole storyline depressing and disappointing. 

[peeayebee]

I don't think that was the deal. I think Shosh really WAS happy in Japan, until she realized that Yoshi expected her to be a virgin. And then it all crashed in on her, because she's NOT a virgin and she'd have to lie about it forever, to keep him. I think she loved the job, Yoshi, and the whole aesthetic of Japan, but she couldn't keep lying to Yoshi, and certainly not to his grandmother.

When I said she was kind of playacting during her time in Japan, I didn't mean that she wasn't happy. I think she was, but it was like a fantasy or dream. A fairy tale in a way. And when she apparently went along with Yoshi's assumption that she was a virgin, that was part of the fairy tale. She just continued to playact in this unreal world. But then when Yoshi brought up meeting his grandmother, she started to recognize that she was not being her real self. She missed her life in NYC. She missed her friends. I'm not sure if I'm explaining it right, but I think the show was making a point about pretending to be something you're not, like the nurse in the sex club.

[Hecate7]

I really don't think it is or would be for almost anyone. That's why that scene bugged me so much - the idea that all these divorcees wish their husbands were off barebacking with strangers they met online? I mean...no. I've known more than a few closeted, married gay men (I'm a gay man) and not once have their wives been thrilled when they came out.  I think for most it felt like more of a betrayal than if they had been cheating with a woman, because it invalidated their marriage in a sense. Maybe Hannah's mother doesn't feel that way, but what I got from that scene was hearing how sad and pathetic those other women are made her too afraid to leave her husband.  Which is just sad. Being alone is not bad. It doesn't mean he couldn't be in her life as her dear friend and companion. And it just didn't ring true to me for a woman who knows she has other options. It felt like she was giving up on life, which I find sad. Maybe that part is realistic, but most women I know would not be capable of staying in a marriage like that. I found the whole storyline depressing and disappointing. 

 

 

It didn't ring true for me, either, but I think the fact that not one single woman expressed surprise or sympathy or any encouragement at all for her to leave the marriage, is what made her finally decide to stay. At a women's gathering you expect a little sisterhood, y'know? But not one woman said, "what? Girl, you need to move on!" Which is what, at minimum, I think she was expecting.

 

Her cool-headed assessment of her prospects wasn't too far out of line. In your sixties, you know that at any time either one of you may need home care or lots of nursing, and who wants to work that hard for a stranger?

[cardigirl]

I think Hannah's mom was, and continues to be, devastated by the news that her husband of so many years is gay.  When he went to New York to meet his online date, she was furious and told Hannah to tell him she wanted a divorce.   So I don't think she's been that accommodating.  But it sounds like Hannah's father is conflicted in his decision.  He wants to "explore" his gay or bisexual side, but he doesn't want to lose his partner either.  I think a lot of people who reach a certain point in their marriage/life do the same thing.  They want freedom to do what they want, but they don't want to lose the security of what they had either.  Is it healthy?  Probably not. The show is being realistic, though, in my opinion, in showing the conflict.  Her decision to 'settle' for companionship and history was bittersweet, I think.  And may not last. 

 

As for women not being as threatened by their husbands being with men, maybe the thought is that it's not because they weren't good enough as a woman, it's just that they are not a man.  Odd, but comparing oneself to another woman is harder on the ol' self-esteem.  

Edited March 24, 2016 by cardigirl

[qtpye]

I really don't think it is or would be for almost anyone. That's why that scene bugged me so much - the idea that all these divorcees wish their husbands were off barebacking with strangers they met online? I mean...no. I've known more than a few closeted, married gay men (I'm a gay man) and not once have their wives been thrilled when they came out.  I think for most it felt like more of a betrayal than if they had been cheating with a woman, because it invalidated their marriage in a sense. Maybe Hannah's mother doesn't feel that way, but what I got from that scene was hearing how sad and pathetic those other women are made her too afraid to leave her husband.  Which is just sad. Being alone is not bad. It doesn't mean he couldn't be in her life as her dear friend and companion. And it just didn't ring true to me for a woman who knows she has other options. It felt like she was giving up on life, which I find sad. Maybe that part is realistic, but most women I know would not be capable of staying in a marriage like that. I found the whole storyline depressing and disappointing.

 

 

Thank you, Racked, for saying all the things that I was not articulate enough to convey.

 

I also felt like it was insulting to Hannah's dad.  Gay men are not adorable little pets that only exist to entertain straight women.  I mean many hetero people have best friends that are of the same gender.  Why do they even bother to find opposite sex partners...because you look for things in your romantic relationships that you can not find in your platonic ones.

 

I know Hannah's dad wants to stay married, but that is probably because he is too scared to be honest in his life about who he really is.  He described his sex partner, as sinister, when he was a perfectly nice, slightly nebbish gentleman, like himself.

 

Yes, romance and sex are not as important as you age, but being married is more then being best friends/room mates.  Heck, with Hannah's parents I doubt if they are even good friends, let alone best ones at this point.

[wendyg]

I'd be pretty angry with a man who had lied to me for all those years about his true sexual preferences. Allison Janney's character in MASTERS OF SEX seemed to me to have it right when she yelled at her husband and called him a thief. (And yet, she, too, stayed with him.)

 

I do wonder if this is an issue where the show would have benefited greatly from having an older person among the writing staff. I'm two years *older* than Hannah's mother here, and I can't imagine taking her point of view. She's 60! Yes, the pool of available men is smaller, but her life is not over - and health doesn't automatically fail at 62. I know 75yos who still play tennis and 84yos who still work full-time. Sixty is the new 40!

 

Now, I think it's entirely legitimate if she's angry and depressed and realistic that she talks herself out of taking personal risks because she's afraid. But that didn't seem to be what the show offered us. Still, that makes an interesting compare and contrast with Shoshanna: they both found themselves living in bubbles where they imagined escape from their lives and their identities...and both found that in the end they had to go home because, in the old 1960s saying, "Wherever you go, there you are."

Edited March 24, 2016 by wendyg

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I think Hannah's parents are still deeply in love. She's obviously the exception to his attraction to men, and she's clearly heartbroken. Why shouldn't they stay married and be husband and wife to each other? They can date other people for sex and romance while still being a loving couple. I don't think monogamy (being married and exclusive to each other OR splitting up with the intent to find new partners) offers either of them the resolution they want, so why not try polyamory?

Is it possible since Yoshi doesn't speak English fluently he means he and Shosh will have sex together for the first time? Not necessarily that he is a virgin or believes her to be one?

[Hecate7]

I saw it a bit differently.  I think Jessa and Adam have a real connection and she seems to love her therapist studies. I think they are making some very grown up decisions, positive decisions that will lead to more grown up lives.

 

I agree. I was the first to wash my hands of Jessa, but she's studying constantly now, and seems more self aware than she used to be. Adam's taking a chance that the money he gives her will go up her nose or in her veins, but most likely it will actually go for what she says it's going for. I think that's a very adult, positive choice. It beats spending his residuals on random toys or drugs, like so many guys his age do when they get a little success.

 

I don't think Adam got with Jessa to hurt Hannah. Hannah's not part of the equation here. When you break up with someone, you don't get to decide who they date. I think the whole Mimi Rose thing was about Jessa wanting Adam but figuring she should date weird toothbrush guy instead of breaking up Hannah and Adam. Then Hannah and Adam did break up. Adam is free, and there is honestly nothing about Hannah and Jessa's friendship that suggests that when they're 50 they'll be glad they didn't split up over a man.

 

Adam needs a girl he can be passionate about and committed to, who will be passionate and committed to him, and enjoy his acting career. Him paying for Jessa's school reminds me of that episode when he ran across town and swept Hannah up in his arms and it was so romantic. He loves to rescue. I think Jessa's fulfilling that weird prophecy from Season 1 about how she would one day finally care very much about something, and be serious about it. It might still blow up in their faces, but I think their hearts are in the right place.

Is it possible since Yoshi doesn't speak English fluently he means he and Shosh will have sex together for the first time? Not necessarily that he is a virgin or believes her to be one?

 

I hope not, actually, because that's the whole reason Shosh is leaving him, and Japan--because she can't pretend to be a virgin, and it's so obviously part of what he likes about her. It would be really tragic if they split up just because he didn't know the English word for sex or lovemaking. (Aren't those the first words anybody learns in a foreign language?)

 

I don't think Hannah's parents aren't deeply in love. I don't think they ever were. They're good friends, almost EXACTLY like Elijah and Hannah, except that at the point in the relationship where Elijah and Hannah broke up, Hannah's parents got married instead. Then they had Hannah and "had to" stay together. The difference is that Elijah can meet a guy and even get married. That wasn't even possible, when Hannah was born. I suspect that Fran is also gay and trying to convince himself he's straight, and that when she's her mother's age or a little sooner Hannah's going to end up repeating history.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Hecate7

[CofCinci]

What do you all think about Jessa's request of her sister -- to share grandma's inheritance for tuition?  Was Jessa out of bounds with her request or is that something you would do for your own sibling?

[guilfoyleatpp]

What do you all think about Jessa's request of her sister -- to share grandma's inheritance for tuition?  Was Jessa out of bounds with her request or is that something you would do for your own sibling?

I considered this too...would I help out my sister in this way?

If Jessa was my sister, I would probably be skeptical of her ability to stay in a school program as well. If I was Jessa...well, I'm not Jessa, but I would probably ask my sister, although not in front of my boyfriend.

 

Since they're trust fund babies, I expect they have a different relationship with money than the rest of us. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by guilfoyleatpp

[chocolatine]

My understanding is that Jessa's and Minerva's (is that her name?) grandmother is still alive, and that when Jessa flunked out of rehab, grandma cut her off. Plus Minerva's dad - who's not Jessa's dad - is supposedly rich and gave Minerva a trust fund, so while she has two sources of income, Jessa has none (other than the odd stint working at a children's boutique or trying to euthanize that old lady).

 

BTW, is Jessa still supposed to be Shosh's cousin? She was introduced that way in S1, but her family is international and "bohemian" for lack of a better word, and has absolutely nothing in common with Shosh's parents, who seem like typical middle-class Americans. I wonder if the cousins storyline was dropped entirely, or whether they're supposed to be very distant cousins.

[Hecate7]

I considered this too...would I help out my sister in this way?

If Jessa was my sister, I would probably be skeptical of her ability to stay in a school program as well. If I was Jessa...well, I'm not Jessa, but I would probably ask my sister, although not in front of my boyfriend.

 

Since they're trust fund babies, I expect they have a different relationship with money than the rest of us. 

 

 

If I had a gigantic trust fund and inheritance and my sister had nothing, and all she wanted was help with college, or her share of an inheritance that at one time was split between us anyway, I would help her all I could! I think only an unfeeling animal would refuse... UNLESS my sister were a drug addict with a history of throwing away money and opportunities like kleenex, like Jessa. When a family resists helping one of their own with housing or education, they create the impression to outsiders that that family member is a drug addict, which is a brutal thing to do to someone who isn't one.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Hecate7

[Cherpumple]

Is it possible since Yoshi doesn't speak English fluently he means he and Shosh will have sex together for the first time? Not necessarily that he is a virgin or believes her to be one?

I kind of like this interpretation, but I'm not sure if we'll ever find out. (And coincidently, I'm responding to you while watching the Golden Girls episode that inspired your user name. "I can't believe the last words I said to her were 'shut up, Zulu!'")

 

And just to weigh in on the Minerva/Jessa thing, I would definitely give money to my actual sisters if they needed it. If one of my sister's had a history of drug addiction or compulsive lying, however, I don't know if I would be so generous. And even if I agreed, I would insist on giving the money directly to the school, rather than to her.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Cherpumple

[Clanstarling]

And just to weigh in on the Minerva/Jessa thing, I would definitely give money to my actual sisters if they needed it. If one of my sister's had a history of drug addiction or compulsive lying, however, I don't know if I would be so generous. And even if I agreed, I would insist on giving the money directly to the school, rather than to her.

I was going to say the same thing. If I was uncertain about how my sister/family member would use the money, then I would pay a semester's tuition and see what the grades were before paying for another. Then again, I kind of use the same technique when someone asks for money outside the grocery store. I'll ask them what they need, and will buy that item for them. Occasionally, and not a full week's worth of groceries, I'm not rolling in dough.

[guilfoyleatpp]

Also on the Hannah's mom front...she's comfortable. She and Hannah's dad have shared experiences. I think, bottom line, she's not ready to let go yet.

 

However, she is still Hannah's mom and if this were real life I'd expect that we'd see her ping ponging back and forth about the decision for a while. Hannah can't stick with a decision to save her life and she gets that from somewhere. "I want a divorce because I'm mad and you will tell your dad!" "I don't want a divorce because these ladies scared me into thinking I'll be lonely." 

 

It even bounce around a couple more times in this season. There's time...

[Clanstarling]

Also on the Hannah's mom front...she's comfortable. She and Hannah's dad have shared experiences. I think, bottom line, she's not ready to let go yet.

 

However, she is still Hannah's mom and if this were real life I'd expect that we'd see her ping ponging back and forth about the decision for a while. Hannah can't stick with a decision to save her life and she gets that from somewhere. "I want a divorce because I'm mad and you will tell your dad!" "I don't want a divorce because these ladies scared me into thinking I'll be lonely." 

 

It even bounce around a couple more times in this season. There's time...

Good point. It takes some time to make the leap, especially when its a long relationship. Some take it to extremes - I have a friend a few years older than Hannah's mom who has been ping ponging going on ten years or more. It is exhausting.

[Sheenieb]

 

What do you all think about Jessa's request of her sister -- to share grandma's inheritance for tuition?  Was Jessa out of bounds with her request or is that something you would do for your own sibling?

My real life sisters, yes, Jessa, hell no. I'd tell her to beat it and go holla at SallieMae. Jessa seems like the type of person who'd guilt you into co-signing a loan, then defer her studies indefinitely and leave you with the bill.

 

All of these girls get on my nerves in varying degrees, but Jessa's my least favorite. She's a mean-spirited flake whose actions are seen as bohemian. Fuck that noise.

[Hecate7]

Well, if Adam's smart he'll just pay the college directly, and not put any of the money into Jessa's hands. If he's dumb he'll shower her with random gifts and money like her first husband did.

 

If Jessa's family are like some people I know, they'll expect thanks for supporting her through college even though they did not do it.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Adam should invest the Big Pharma paychecks. Buy a condo or something. He won't know when he'll book his next well-paying acting job.

[bunnywithanaxe]

 

Gotta admire Hannah/Lena for being so comfortable with her body, but I was wondering who the heck takes off their underwear and sleeps in a bra?

Um. Someone who wants to sleep naked, but has overly sensitive nipples that get chafed by shifting bed sheets.

I'm guessing.

[Muffyn]

I don't think Hannah was wearing underwear.  She took off her shorts to go to bed.  She was not wearing anything under her shorts.

[Hecate7]

Adam should invest the Big Pharma paychecks. Buy a condo or something. He won't know when he'll book his next well-paying acting job.

 

 

Good point. He probably should invest in real estate or something that will pay him dividends, or in something he can deduct, such as acting classes, etc... Then again, being married to a successful NY therapist who owes it all to you, and can float you through the first few lean times, isn't a bad plan, either. Any investment you make is a gamble. This is a big, impulsive gamble but I don't think he's going to put all of his money on Jessa anyway. He'll probably cover a semester at a time.

[CofCinci]

Or perhaps we'll see some growth on Jessa's end where she decides to not take his money?

[LindaT]

Why did the yoga teacher cry after her orgasm was finished? I can come up with several "well, maybe" scenarios, but I want to see what everybody else thinks.

[TVForever]

Why did the yoga teacher cry after her orgasm was finished? I can come up with several "well, maybe" scenarios, but I want to see what everybody else thinks.

I was guessing INTENSE emotion in the moment. But at the time, I thought she was crying because Hannah stopped "midstream" and kind of left her hanging, so to speak. Oops, I must have misread what was going on.

[Hecate7]

Or perhaps we'll see some growth on Jessa's end where she decides to not take his money?

 

No, that would be stupid. Why would you ever choose student loan debt and perpetual angry phone calls whenever you lose your job, over...just not having those? I suppose if you love poverty, drama, and agony, maybe...but I think real growth would be if she just got the degree and was grateful to Adam.

Why did the yoga teacher cry after her orgasm was finished? I can come up with several "well, maybe" scenarios, but I want to see what everybody else thinks.

 

 

My theory? Even with a woman she's stuck finishing herself off. You expect it with a man because the mechanics of sex are different and you know he's going to roll over when he's done, but I think she assumed that sex with women was better. She even picked a woman who looked as if she might have some intelligence and sensitivity. She was not to know that Hannah is just a completely selfish person.

 

I know we're assuming she's a lesbian with lots of experience, but maybe she's not.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Hecate7

[Cherpumple]

I know that Hannah is generally a self-centred person, but IMO she was not being selfish when she stopped her sexual encounter with the yoga teacher, no matter abrupt and inconvenient the timing may have been. She was feeling uncomfortable/overwhelmed, she verbalised her desire to stop, and then she stopped. Considering the importance of consent in the current discourse on sexual activity, I think she did the right thing, and I certainly don't think she should have continued to do something that she did not want to do, just to please her partner.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Cherpumple