The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[DangerousMinds]

They will be the reason that I don't watch. Didn't watch the Fox interviews either, but enjoyed reading and snarking about them here.

[sometimesy]

The Duggar victims are entitled to feel and say whatever they like about their molestations.

Yes I agree they can say whatever they like about their molestations. They can have an entire tv show dedicated to them and their molestations. It just doesn't seem necessary to me, this is just my opinion. They have many followers on their social media and have had a Fox interview to 'say whatever they like'. The certainly are not muzzled. It's not like no one is listening to them. IMO, just my opinion, TLC would do better to present someone that hasn't been presented before.

 

I also agree though, they may be the hook to get people to watch.

[Vaysh]

The police interviews/investigation suggests Jill and Jessa had the same experience as the non family member, molestation while sleeping.

 

Same experience =/= same reaction. And since the fifth victim is apparently suing she doesn't appear to be in agreement with the Duggar narrative of No Big Deal.

[Flowers]

The Duggar victims are entitled to feel and say whatever they like about their molestations.

But not to speak for other victims.

[roamyn]

The twisted sisters can shut the fuck up. What more can they add to; it's no big deal and I speak for all the victims-not-victims.We are exposed against our will and it has victimized us so, victimize us some more and give us fame and fortune.

I'm finding calling the victims "ttwisted sisters" very offensive.

We can agree or not, that they were either told to read a script or brainwashed, but that still doesn't give us the right to call them nasty names when discussing the reason one disagrees with them.

If, OTOH, you were to call Jessa that - for example - because of her beliefs or her posts - that would be different.

But since you were specifically calling them that phrase because they of what they said abt their abuse, then that's not right, IMHO.

[satrunrose]

 

 

The Duggar victims are entitled to feel and say whatever they like about their molestations.

But not to speak for other victims.

 

I can agree that they are victims and therefore can cope in whatever way works for them. I just can't agree that they have the right to go in front of millions of people and downplay sexual assault. They have every right to have moved on - or not; to have forgiven him - or not; to have rebuilt their relationships - or not. I don't believe they have the right to say that groping your sisters so frequently that they have to put locks on their bedroom doors is no biggie, or to suggest that it's not a big deal because "everyone's doing it". The downplaying and normalization of a serious criminal offence in those interviews, by all parties involved,  was seriously messed up, and they need to be called on it (plus, someone in law-enforcement needs to be looking in to all these "other families", just saying').

Edited July 18, 2015 by satrunrose

[sometimesy]

I'm finding calling the victims "ttwisted sisters" very offensive.

We can agree or not, that they were either told to read a script or brainwashed, but that still doesn't give us the right to call them nasty names when discussing the reason one disagrees with them.

If, OTOH, you were to call Jessa that - for example - because of her beliefs or her posts - that would be different.

But since you were specifically calling them that phrase because they of what they said abt their abuse, then that's not right, IMHO.

To me it means odd, strange, not the norm. Sorry if my adjective seemed 'nasty' to you or anyone else on the board. I don't find it offensive (and maybe that is a regional thing?) especially when referring to people that 'do everything a little bit different'.

Edited July 18, 2015 by sometimesy

[CofCinci]

What revenue? Unless they're selling something through a media outlet (and I'm not aware if they are, so it could be), what revenue would they gain thru FB and IG posts?

In Maci Bookout's (of 16 & Pregnant/Teen Mom) upcoming book (barf), she reveals how she supplements her MTV earnings by getting paid to promote brands on Twitter and Instagram. She makes more money from that than MTV, doing so well that she owed the IRS $80,000 in 2011. Every time celebs post a FB, IG, Tweet with a product, they're getting paid. When People picks up the photo(like Jessa's perfect Arby's photo), money has exchanged hands. The Duggars make money of their social media. Hashtag Dutch Blitz anyone? Edited July 18, 2015 by CofCinci

[kokapetl]

I just find it confusing that people can be so upset with Josh's assaults AND almost as upset with 4 out of the 5 victims.

[CofCinci]

I just find it confusing that people can be so upset with Josh's assaults AND almost as upset with 4 out of the 5 victims.

What's confusing? One can be a victim AND a terrible person that wants to take rights away from others. Just because a Duggar girl was molested by their brother doesn't give them free reign to use photos of the freaking hollocaust to promote their anti-abortion agenda without criticism. Edited July 18, 2015 by CofCinci

[kokapetl]

What's confusing? One can be a victim AND a terrible person that wants to take rights away from others.

I meant upset or angry with the victims' own handling of their assaults. Angry with Josh for sexually assaulting his sisters, and angry with his sisters for how they're dealing with their assaults.

[becca3891]

Ben never wore the pants in his relationship with Jessa, she's older and the husband's boss's daughter. His employment is at the discretion of her family. Derick, I dunno, he's a weird one.

Hmm, I can't agree. Yes, Jessa knows her mind, but both come from solidly patriarchal upbringings. While hopefully Ben will not abuse the power that their belief system gives them, I see a streak in him that could be stubborn. 

 

I would normally agree, but Jim has been witness to a lot of horrible things in both of these homes and just went along with it.  Sure, people have to make a living, but it doesn't say much about his character to stand by and never speak out, report them or something.    I could never do that.    I would rather be broke and know I did the right thing.     Of course he is legally bound to silence, but  nobody forced him to stay.

I'm not exactly sure what you're implying that Jim could have seen. Anything questionable, like blanket training, was not done on film. What would he be reporting them for, the appallingly ignorant goings-on at the SOTDRT? Yes, that's a travesty, but a very legal one. The same goes for their beliefs on the role of women. Infuriating, but not breaking the law. Oh wait, just re-read and said you're also including Jon and Kate. I am not at all familiar with that show.

Edited July 18, 2015 by becca3891

[Vaysh]

I just find it confusing that people can be so upset with Josh's assaults AND almost as upset with 4 out of the 5 victims.

Two out of the five victims sounds closer to the truth; I haven't heard a single negative word spoken about the younger two sisters. And I really don't think people are almost as upset with Jessa and Jill as they are with Josh, not even close. People are pointing out how problematic the Fox interview was in terms of minimizing, deflecting, and handwaving away sexual abuse of children. And that is, quite frankly, what Jill and Jessa (and Jim'chelle) did.

 

However, considering the similarities in script between their interview and their parents' interview, I think that Jessa and Jill had a lot of words put in their mouths by Jim Boob that might not have been said if they'd given the interview without prior interference and coaching (or said in private without any interview at all) so I tend to cut the girls a bit of slack and mostly blame the parents for that clusterfuck of an interview. That doesn't make it less offensive or potentially damaging though and I don't think there is anything wrong with calling Jessa and Jill out for their part in it.

[GEML]

I also don't think we know how many victims of assault do manage to put it behind them and move on. There would be no way for us to know - they wouldn't be the ones getting therapy, or taking medication for it, or having lives seeming out of sync because of it. I honestly think it's a valid view point. Where it is NOT valid (no no nonononono NO!) is that it the right viewpoint (I don't think any viewpoint is "right") or it's the "best" or certainly not the only and for Heaven's sake (pun intended) it's not the/a Christian viewpoint.

But I think it's a viewpoint many victims feel and implement. And sharing that is ok with me so that other victims who have coped that way don't feel there is something wrong with THEM if their lives didn't fall apart, or they found a coping mechanism on their own that wasn't our current social services/therapeutic model, but they still turned out ok.

[ChocolateAddict]

Victims of sexual assault and abuse should be encouraged to deal with their experience in whatever way works for them.  Whether they need therapy or are able to move on quickly, they should be supported in their choice.  The issue that I have with Jill and Jessa isn't that they (apparently) were able to move on quickly and easily but that they were on national TV saying that molestation is an incredibly common problem that really isn't a big deal at all.  They also said that their parents dealt with the abuse in an appropriate way which is ridiculous considering all that we know about the lack of professional help, lack of law enforcement and "counselling" through a 3 month working holiday.  

I would never, ever criticize a victim for the way that they deal with their abuse but I cannot condone announcing to the world that the best way to deal with abuse is to ignore and minimize it.  That I will happily criticize the Duggars for. 

[Churchhoney]

I meant upset or angry with the victims' own handling of their assaults. Angry with Josh for sexually assaulting his sisters, and angry with his sisters for how they're dealing with their assaults.

 

I'm not angry with them, but I also seriously doubt that they have actually "handled" any of this to any extent at all. In my own life, I was taught, urged, coerced to minimize and "move on from" and excuse quite a number of things that I realized -- much much much later -- were very bad things to minimize. And I learned that, no, I hadn't actually "handled them" and "moved on." All I'd done was shove them into the back of my mind -- where they sat around poisoning me and my relationships, giving me quite false underlying feelings and ideas about how people ordinarily behave and how they should treat each other, creating a ton of misdirected anger and self-doubt and so on, until I finally figured out what was going on.

 

And, yes, I know that my experience may not be their experience. But I also know that they have been raised by and still have many if not most of their actions and beliefs directed by two of the most toxic minimizers and deniers around. And I know that what they said in the Fox interview essentially parrots what the two Big Minimizers had said a few days before. So I am quite angry at JB and M for forcing on these girls their own very warped and minimizing interpretation of events -- events that did not happen to them but to the girls -- for the selfish purpose of getting political power and tv money and public adulation based on their "wonderful, godly family" image. And who this spring were using their girls' supposedly wonderful easy "handling" of these events for the purposes of redeeming their image and that of their number one son and of saving their tv fame and cash.

 

If Jessa and Jill hadn't been raised in a tyrannical way by two utterly selfish people who perpetually treat all their kids as means to their own ends rather than as individuals with their own thoughts and feelings and their own individual ways of dealing with things, I'd be a lot more likely to believe that J and J's protestations represent their own working through of the abuse. As it is, I expect that they've just been puppets on a string following JB and M's instructions about what to feel and think. And who knows? That may work for them. But I don't think it works for most people, so even though I don't blame them for what they said, I still think that the example they provide is a dangerous one (at least when it isn't accompanied by other examples of people for whom "forgiving and moving on quickly" ultimately didn't work out so well.) It's one thing to move on quickly. It's quite another thing to move on quickly because you've been ordered to do so, in my opinion.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

Through my professional experience sexual assaults certainly aren't rare. And the different ways of handling it are plentiful and sadly, the way the Duggars addressed the molestations is far better then what happens in a lot of other families, as well as much worse. This is just one family, and 2 survivors speaking out, no one person can wholly represent survivors of abuse.

 

And to add to what GEML stated, I think it is unfair to invalidate ones interpretation and impact of abuse. However, I also understand we see this through our own lenses and this is a sensitive subject. 

[sometimesy]

I meant upset or angry with the victims' own handling of their assaults. Angry with Josh for sexually assaulting his sisters, and angry with his sisters for how they're dealing with their assaults.

I liked your post but meant to quote it.  :)

 

I am not angry at Jessa and Jill for they way they are handling their own assault but, they might want to rethink trying to speak for the others. They may really have spoken THEIR truth; it wasn't something that impacted them and it was no big deal. MY issue is that they keep getting a platform. In general I think the Duggars have had enough air time. I don't give them another quarter for the meter because they are [snip]victims-not victims. IMO for two girls who indicated the MEDIA were the ones who victimized them it seems insincere to keep at it.  They said their spiel so if they have more to say they have instagram, Bin uses twitter, facebook. They have an audience and the tools.

 

On another note: How is Jill participating in this anyway?

 

I am suspicious of JimBob seeming happy about the 'special'.

Edited July 18, 2015 by bigskygirl
No proof incest happened

[JoanArc]

 

In Maci Bookout's (of 16 & Pregnant/Teen Mom) upcoming book (barf), she reveals how she supplements her MTV earnings by getting paid to promote brands on Twitter and Instagram. She makes more money from that than MTV, doing so well that she owed the IRS $80,000 in 2011. Every time celebs post a FB, IG, Tweet with a product, they're getting paid. When People picks up the photo(like Jessa's perfect Arby's photo), money has exchanged hands. The Duggars make money of their social media. Hashtag Dutch Blitz anyone?

Thank you. I've never believed that they were poorer than we think; if anything, it's the opposite. Being showless is really going to hurt those endorsement deals. The girls are kind of radioactive. "After your brother feels you up, go for a refreshing shake at Arby's. Arbys: It's no big deal" It'll be interesting to see what get posted their social media, now.

 

 

On another note: How is Jill participating in this anyway?

I'm sure it's been in the hopper for awhile now. She likely filmed her bit with Jessa before leaving the country.

Edited July 18, 2015 by JoanArc

[GeeGolly]

... "After your brother feels you up, go for a refreshing shake at Arby's. Arbys: It's no big deal" ...

Wow. Really?

[JoanArc]

Wow. Really?

Yes, and Jessa would do that commercial if the money was right. She already made a lump of money doing just that on fox.

[Absolom]

For making money by twitter and instagram endorsements, they have posted few enough of them.  Some celebrities do make a lot of money doing it, but they are putting out many more endorsement type pictures. 

[carrps]

Every time I see this thread title I read it as "Duggars in the Mist." Anyone else? Just me? O.k.

[GEML]

They are allowed to make money. Im someone who clicks about one in ten things that are posted here - usually if there is a big discussion about something, and I'm not comfortable commenting if I haven't seen or watched myself. (For instance, I won't comment on the Fox interviews, as I've not seen them.)

But if you don't want them to make money, don't post them here and/or don't click.

[SpottedCoachDog]

It was inevitable. There is an online petition to bring them back. The website is SupportTheDuggars.com. Without them, there is nothing to watch with your children! (Clutch pearls as needed.)

Also read that Mama June is still madder than a wet hen. Cancellation is not sufficient to her. They must be shunned by the TLC, dammit!!

[kokapetl]

Yes, and Jessa would do that commercial if the money was right. She already made a lump of money doing just that on fox.

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE can be bought for a price.

I don't think Jessa is a whore in this case.

[kokapetl]

Thank you. I've never believed that they were poorer than we think; if anything, it's the opposite. Being showless is really going to hurt those endorsement deals. The girls are kind of radioactive.

It's stuff like that that makes me feel sorry for the girls.

[sometimesy]

It was inevitable. There is an online petition to bring them back. The website is SupportTheDuggars.com. Without them, there is nothing to watch with your children! (Clutch pearls as needed.)

Also read that Mama June is still madder than a wet hen. Cancellation is not sufficient to her. They must be shunned by the TLC, dammit!!

Maybe they will approach her daughter about participating? It won't flatter June though.

Edited July 18, 2015 by sometimesy

[JoanArc]

It's stuff like that that makes me feel sorry for the girls.

Just to be clear, I was referring to Jill and Jessa, not all the victims. They deserved privacy and anonymity as victims. Going public opened them up to A LOT. Speaking their truth - lies and distortions, didn't help much either.

[NextIteration]

Also read that Mama June is still madder than a wet hen. Cancellation is not sufficient to her. They must be shunned by the TLC, dammit!!

 

Ahem, thanks for having to clean my screen.

[GEML]

Hasn't that petition been around since the whole thing started? I thought I'd already read about it here.

[kokapetl]

I've been seeing psychiatrists several times a year, for atleast a decade, and all the ones I've seen never dwelt on the past. If a Duggar was their patient, and the j'slave said she'd moved past Josh molesting her, a psychiatrist would note that, and not press the issue.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Bitter Betty]

It was inevitable. There is an online petition to bring them back. The website is SupportTheDuggars.com. Without them, there is nothing to watch with your children! (Clutch pearls as needed.)

 

Because nothing says good old fashioned family entertainment like being able to point to one of the people you're watching and saying, "there's the guy who molested four of his sisters!"

[dillpickles]

Because nothing says good old fashioned family entertainment like being able to point to one of the people you're watching and saying, "there's the guy who molested four of his sisters!"

"You know, i heard he was reeeel sly about it too"

[Aja]

Because nothing says good old fashioned family entertainment like being able to point to one of the people you're watching and saying, "there's the guy who molested four of his sisters!"

EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY and also exactly why my jaw hit the floor in disbelief and stayed that way until TLC FINALLY cancelled. Actually, my jaw is still down there because of how long it took them to cancel the show given the above quote, which to me is the absolute bottom line and there is no getting around it. It took months to work that out????

[Defrauder]

EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY and also exactly why my jaw hit the floor in disbelief and stayed that way until TLC FINALLY cancelled. Actually, my jaw is still down there because of how long it took them to cancel the show given the above quote, which to me is the absolute bottom line and there is no getting around it. It took months to work that out????

Well knowing :they will never cancel us' JB, I've been wondering if he has been threatening to sue TLC if they cancelled and ended whatever contracts they had.  Not knowing anything about how the industry works I don't know what kind of contracts if any they would have but if there was some way JB could try to keep the show going he would.  It may have taken this long because of JB's legal attempts to keep it going.  I don't know, just wondering.

[Aja]

Well knowing :they will never cancel us' JB, I've been wondering if he has been threatening to sue TLC if they cancelled and ended whatever contracts they had.  Not knowing anything about how the industry works I don't know what kind of contracts if any they would have but if there was some way JB could try to keep the show going he would.  It may have taken this long because of JB's legal attempts to keep it going.  I don't know, just wondering.

Possible but unlikely. Of course I say that with, like you, no knowledge of the reality of TV contracts or anything like that. It's just that my overwhelming impression is that the Duggars are A-list celebrities in their own minds only. I can't imagine they have the power and pull to manipulate a TV network into extending their reality show  in the wake of a scandal of this nature unless the TV network believed there might still be something in it for them. I might be totally wrong, though.

[Absolom]

The short answer is that networks write contracts where they have all or most of the advantage.  The network retains the right to cancel shows without giving a reason.  There is no recourse for a network deciding to end a show. 

[GEML]

I think They had enough firepowerTo make life loud and unpleasant for TLC. They didn't want a boycott by either side. So they took their time and made sure they got every t crossed and I dotted. It seems pretty typical low-risk, biggest reward for TLC from where I'm sitting.

[Bitter Betty]

I agree that the contract was likely written giving TLC most of the power. Even if there was some basis for JB to sue for cancellation, I don't think his remedy would involve forcing the show back on TV. It would likely be limited to whatever money he would be owed for the remainder of the contract. However, I'm guessing that JimBob and all probably didn't have any guarantees that would allow them any recovery.

[Defrauder]

Thinking too about the companies that put ads on during their show pulling out and jumping that sinking ship.  The Josh thing was the last straw probably after MicHELLe's anti-trans robo call and some of the attitudes they were throwing up on us with.  Is it TLC that is replacing the Duggar disaster with a show about a trans girl named Jazz?  I hope so and it's perfect irony that her name begins with the letter J.

[SpottedCoachDog]

"I am Jazz" is on TLC. I watched it and loved her and her family. If people were even a 10th as supporting and open minded as the Jennings family the world would be a much better place.

I waded into the Hell of the Duggar official FB page and the hatred spewed by the humpers towards Jazz was disgusting. They are horrified that a good, God fearing family was replaced by these sinners. Child molesting and evading legal prosecution for the crime is fine bexause Jesus forgives. But no forgiveness for this deviant child!!! I was nauseous after just a few comments.

[Oldernowiser]

There's no planet on which a two-bit reality teevee family has enough contractual clout to force a network to do anything, let alone resume filming and airing the show.

It took this long to cancel because TLC has a substantial investment in this merry band of whackadoodles and they were trying to save the franchise somehow. No way is their multi-syllable law firm afraid of an Arkansas rube and whatever fundie lawyer he might get at a discount. Not happening.

It's about the $$$. The end.

[Aja]

"I am Jazz" is on TLC. I watched it and loved her and her family. If people were even a 10th as supporting and open minded as the Jennings family the world would be a much better place.

I waded into the Hell of the Duggar official FB page and the hatred spewed by the humpers towards Jazz was disgusting. They are horrified that a good, God fearing family was replaced by these sinners. Child molesting and evading legal prosecution for the crime is fine bexause Jesus forgives. But no forgiveness for this deviant child!!! I was nauseous after just a few comments.

Aaaaaaand, just left my first comment on the Duggar FB page. I knew I'd be broken down eventually. This was the quote I responded to:

 

My "Sky Daddy" is all about love and grace for all of us who sin. He simply states that all of us have sinned. Maybe you don't think those words apply to you, but I knew they applied to me. I have no fear of homosexuals or transgenders and neither does the Duggar family. What did you hear them say that made you so angry? I mean the exact words. I'm truly asking, not arguing. I simply believe that intelligent people can have a rational discussion.

Since that was a pretty measured, thoughtful, civilised post for a leghumper, I just copied and pasted the script from Michelle's robocall.

[GEML]

What makes anyone think Jim Bob had a Fundy lawyer? Or that Williams and Connolly only does things because they are "scared?"

You do things in a proper order because you are risk averse. That's classic white letter law. And those things do indeed take time. Executives at TLC's jobs were likely on the line. There were probably a couple of politicians who made calls on the Duggars behalf. I guarantee there was at least a few inquiries by groups seeing if this was a potential religious discrimination case. Organizations such as the Rutherford Institute made their name from such long shots as Paula Jones, remember? This is how they fundraise. It has nothing to do with the Duggars per se.

For every post that relished them being replaced by a transgendered teen, think of that as some attorney at Williams and Connelly billing TLC for making sure this was handled properly.

[riverblue22]

Are there any other networks that might pick them up?  Somehow I don't see them on UP with the Bates Family already on their schedule.  I haven't paid attention to Christian television networks, but I imagine there are others?  Would anybody want the Duggars?  I think they would go for just about any deal, even if the money was a lot less.  

[Julia]

Obviously I don't know, but I sort of imagined that any negotiations were about Jim Bob going quietly and not trying to whip up whatever followers he still has against TLC/Discovery. He may not be the key to TLC's success, but in a very real way they are. It didn't become a one-stop shopping for all your twelfth-century womens' roles channel by accident.

[Cherrio]

Reality shows/contracts can be dropped, renewed or cancelled in a split second.   The participants have no power.

 The Duggars are no different from any other reality show family.

 

  The stalling had only to do with the network losing a lot of revenue.  TLC has never cared about anything else.

[Sew Sumi]

Are there any other networks that might pick them up?  Somehow I don't see them on UP with the Bates Family already on their schedule.  I haven't paid attention to Christian television networks, but I imagine there are others?  Would anybody want the Duggars?  I think they would go for just about any deal, even if the money was a lot less.  

I think they could be a fit at CMT. But they have to certainly honor a non-compete, so a new show wouldn't air for about a year from last May. OR, they can't film for that year? Depends on the terms of their contract, of course. 

[Fuzzysox]

Congrats on the new baby! I thought she was NEVER going to get here at the rate we have been waiting and waiting for her to arrive.

 

Torn on her name, kinda old sounding.