The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[Sew Sumi]

Two of the pregnancy annoucements aren't until December/January. They aren't going to catch us up that quickly in what is likely another 6 episode "season" (of life). 

They will probably get around to Joy's announcement, though. I guess we have the house reno to look forward to as well. 

Double snore...

[EtheltoTillie]

Family in California with 13 kids chained in a house.

 

I don't know where to post this, but I wonder if they are Gothard types.  I feel this will come out.  They are "home schooling" and claim to be religious.

This is truly the sick result of the isolation mandated by these groups. 

[zoomama]

this is happening very close to my neck of the woods. its sad and scary. they said the mom seemed dazed and the dad was sobbing when they got arrested.  its all so much to figure out. i too  am curious what the real story is here. 

10 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Family in California with 13 kids chained in a house.

 

I don't know where to post this, but I wonder if they are Gothard types.  I feel this will come out.  They are "home schooling" and claim to be religious.

This is truly the sick result of the isolation mandated by these groups. 

[Natalie68]

15 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Family in California with 13 kids chained in a house.

 

I don't know where to post this, but I wonder if they are Gothard types.  I feel this will come out.  They are "home schooling" and claim to be religious.

This is truly the sick result of the isolation mandated by these groups. 

First thought was they were fundamentalists.  Then I saw the picture of them all in dresses.  If they aren't fundamentalists I will be very surprised.  Not gonna lie, when I 1st heard it I wondered if the Rodrigui family was out here.  Then I remembered isn't #13 brewing right now?

[scriggle]

Grandparents of shackled children say 'God called on' parents to have so many kids
 

Quote

 

the grandparents said the children "looked thin," but seemed like a "happy family."

James and Betty Turpin admitted the children were given "very strict home schooling," and they were required to memorize long passages of the Bible.

The grandparents said their son was raised Pentecostal, but the couple did not attend a church in California. The grandparents also said they had no friends or community they were aware of.

 

This made me think of the Rodriguii children too.

[EtheltoTillie]

There's a thread on FreeJinger.  Lots of comments, but thus far not much more info, as not much has been made public yet.  That will be the place to check, I suppose.

[Arwen Evenstar]

48 minutes ago, GussieK said:

There's a thread on FreeJinger.  Lots of comments, but thus far not much more info, as not much has been made public yet.  That will be the place to check, I suppose.

It was on the NBC Nightly News.  I saw all that matchy-matchy clothing and heard a neighbor describe the kids as “vampire pale”.  They posted pictures of a happy family doing happy family things.  Made me wonder what sort of secret hell these Fundy kids live in.

[GeeGolly]

Very curious - a Vegas wedding that all kids attended, a quote that the father homeschooled "his 5 children", yet all the kids look like clones, Disney vacation. Curiouser and curiouser.

[Arwen Evenstar]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Very curious - a Vegas wedding that all kids attended, a quote that the father homeschooled "his 5 children", yet all the kids look like clones, Disney vacation. Curiouser and curiouser.

Oh yes. The police thought the 5 adult children were minors because they were emaciated and their growth was stunted.

[xls]

1 hour ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

It was on the NBC Nightly News.  I saw all that matchy-matchy clothing and heard a neighbor describe the kids as “vampire pale”.  They posted pictures of a happy family doing happy family things.  Made me wonder what sort of secret hell these Fundy kids live in.

The first thing I thought when I saw the matching "early days Duggar"  dresses-was Quiverfull !

[StaceyNotStacie]

2 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

It was on the NBC Nightly News.  I saw all that matchy-matchy clothing and heard a neighbor describe the kids as “vampire pale”.  They posted pictures of a happy family doing happy family things.  Made me wonder what sort of secret hell these Fundy kids live in.

This is crazy. It’s like the Duggars meet Flowers in the Attic. I just can’t believe they got away with it for so long. I wonder if other fundy-like families are a bit nervous about this, feeling like they’re going to have to work extra hard to defend their lifestyles because of the scrutiny this family has caused to similar families. 

[awaken]

I saw this on the news and thought of this forum. Terrible. 

[EtheltoTillie]

It is now reported that a neighbor in their previous town saw the kids being marched around in the middle of the night. Why didn't he do something?

[kaleidoscope]

What happens to these children now?  Foster care?  The adults have no idea how to survive on their own.  If the children are split up, they lose the only thing they have.....each other.  The Duggars will see no correlation, will they?  Heartbreaking.

Edited January 17, 2018 by kaleidoscope

[SMama]

CPS looks at family first and keeping minors together. Thirteen is quite a task, but APS will be working with the “adult” offspring.  The paternal grandparents are a no since grandma is defending their indefensible actions. I was able to place five children in the same home, but in a Midwest state (from CA). Their culture forbids taking in children without the parents’ permission. The parents were so selfish they would not give the many local relatives permission. The five were divided in foster care. However, their school psychologist and other school personnel were really involved. They would get the kids together as often as possible.  It was well worth the relocation and subsequent adoption. This happened after the incarcerated parents were unable to reunify. The relatives in the Midwest were younger and did not give a flying fig about not having the parents’ blessings. It was a about the kids.

When a child under age three is placed in protective custody alone or part of a sibling group, they are all fast tracked. Meaning the parents have much less time to reunify. The parents incarceration was a blessing to them. There is allegedly a two year old child, this will help the minors.

Two of the mother’s siblings were on TV and seemed horrified by what happened to their nieces and nephews. Both CPS and APS will have time to look for placement. They are all hospitalized and it may be a long road for all, especially the adults. I pray relatives rally around the victims and the 13 can remain near each other. 

Sorry about the long rant. I have several friends working at the office dealing with this case and my heart goes out to them. Difficult case, and no matter what they do they will get ripped apart by the community and the media.

[Marshmallow Mollie]

@SMamaFASCINATING! Thanks so much for sharing. In a case such as this, do you think there is some sort of psychological trauma team? 

[Fuzzysox]

16 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

It was on the NBC Nightly News.  I saw all that matchy-matchy clothing and heard a neighbor describe the kids as “vampire pale”.  They posted pictures of a happy family doing happy family things.  Made me wonder what sort of secret hell these Fundy kids live in.

I pray that someone reports Jill so her kids can be free. Free to not be controlled by her nuttiness and that they can get as much food as they need.

**side not I think the news media said that the mother was married at 16. She has probably been brainwashed to the max by her older husband.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Fuzzysox

[zoomama]

because it is local, it is on the news all the day long.  i read in the paper that the fb page is now gone.  it just breaks my heart....especially for the older ones. i was looking at a picture and trying to guess the ages of the girls (they were in the front so easier to see). the oldest had to have been mid-twenties when it was taken...and yet they all looked like teens or less. i couldnt tell who was the older, except for obviously smaller sisters. i too thought of the duggars and the common themes of same clothes, same hair...how on God's green earth do people come back from such as this?

[EtheltoTillie]

31 minutes ago, Fuzzysox said:

I pray that someone reports Jill so her kids can be free. Free to not be controlled by her nuttiness and that they can get as much food as they need.

**side not I think the news media said that the mother was married at 16. She has probably been brainwashed to the max by her older husband.

Are you referring to Jill Duggar?  Is there some concern about abuse or starvation?  I know Derrick has been considered really crazy town lately, but I haven't seen anything like this. 

[doodlebug]

15 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Are you referring to Jill Duggar?  Is there some concern about abuse or starvation?  I know Derrick has been considered really crazy town lately, but I haven't seen anything like this. 

No, Jill Rodrigues, another fundie who has 12, going on 13 kids who look malnourished while she and her hubby are quite well-fed.  She often boasts about how the kids are fasting to pray for something or another and how the kids are constantly showering her with parties, gifts and attention while it is very clear that the kids themselves are deprived of many, if not most, of the simple things for themselves.  Her daughter was supposedly going to court some fundie dude and was thrilled beyond words that he gave her gum!  Same daughter just threw Jill a 'baby shower' for blessing #13 who isn't due until spring and the theme was "Pamper Mama" with most of the gifts being clothes and perfume and bedding for Jill.

Edited January 17, 2018 by doodlebug

[EtheltoTillie]

9 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

No, Jill Rodrigues, another fundie who has 12, going on 13 kids who look malnourished while she and her hubby are quite well-fed.  She often boasts about how the kids are fasting to pray for something or another and how the kids are constantly showering her with parties, gifts and attention while it is very clear that the kids themselves are deprived of many, if not most, of the simple things for themselves.  Her daughter was supposedly going to court some fundie dude and was thrilled beyond words that he gave her gum!  Same daughter just threw Jill a 'baby shower' for blessing #13 who isn't due until spring and the theme was "Pamper Mama" with most of the gifts being clothes and perfume and bedding for Jill.

Thanks.  I had heard of this family but was not closely acquainted with the details. 

[SMama]

@Marshmallow Mollie, based on previous experience I’m certain there’s a robust mental health team involved. I was a forensic interviewer, and actually observed in this county. Sadly they are not up to the podunk county where I worked.  Nevertheless as soon as they are individually able they will all be interviewed. My bet is the courageous 17 year old might be the first. There is a mental health professional who meets with every child after the interview. I also interviewed adults when there were developmental issues or the abuse was too severe. I would not be surprised if the adults are interviewed. Meaning not by police but by a social worker with law enforcement watching behind the glass. SWs tend to have a softer approach than LE.

There are also several reasons in the WIC code where reunification could be denied. Sadly, the only time I’ve seen it work is when the parent is responsible for the death of another child.

Cruelty is one of the reasons, but you’d be surprise how difficult it is to prove. I had a case of six children and one adult victims of Munchausen by Proxy. You’d think years of unnecessary surgeries, including indwelling devices, along with being locked in a room for 23 hours a day without a bathroom is definitely cruelty. NOPE, judge ordered reunification.

I pray this county, even if it is only because of the publicity, does the right thing and denies reunification. This case has given me some serious flashbacks. I’m also so proud of that 17 year old young lady. I hated when a reporter asked why didn’t they leave when there were several cars at the home. I wanted to throttle the moron. It’s appaling how many people do not get the psychology of abuse.

I will now get off my high horse, it will take a while. ?

[Marshmallow Mollie]

Stay on that high horse! Your expertise is insightful!

[SMama]

Thank you ☺️ 

[Marigold]

Love when posters share their own experiences. 

[Fuzzysox]

2 hours ago, GussieK said:

Thanks.  I had heard of this family but was not closely acquainted with the details. 

Lots of info in the Sweet Fellowship thread about Jill and her family.

[EtheltoTillie]

2 hours ago, SMama said:

@Marshmallow Mollie, based on previous experience I’m certain there’s a robust mental health team involved. I was a forensic interviewer, and actually observed in this county. Sadly they are not up to the podunk county where I worked.  Nevertheless as soon as they are individually able they will all be interviewed. My bet is the courageous 17 year old might be the first. There is a mental health professional who meets with every child after the interview. I also interviewed adults when there were developmental issues or the abuse was too severe. I would not be surprised if the adults are interviewed. Meaning not by police but by a social worker with law enforcement watching behind the glass. SWs tend to have a softer approach than LE.

There are also several reasons in the WIC code where reunification could be denied. Sadly, the only time I’ve seen it work is when the parent is responsible for the death of another child.

Cruelty is one of the reasons, but you’d be surprise how difficult it is to prove. I had a case of six children and one adult victims of Munchausen by Proxy. You’d think years of unnecessary surgeries, including indwelling devices, along with being locked in a room for 23 hours a day without a bathroom is definitely cruelty. NOPE, judge ordered reunification.

I pray this county, even if it is only because of the publicity, does the right thing and denies reunification. This case has given me some serious flashbacks. I’m also so proud of that 17 year old young lady. I hated when a reporter asked why didn’t they leave when there were several cars at the home. I wanted to throttle the moron. It’s appaling how many people do not get the psychology of abuse.

I will now get off my high horse, it will take a while. ?

Thank you for posting this.  I'm a disability rights lawyer, and I am familiar with many of these issues.  I wish I could go to battle for those kids.  I'm in NY, though.  I hope the public donates some money for them.  Remember things like the girl who fell in the well.  People donated a lot of money for her. 

[Temperance]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

No, Jill Rodrigues, another fundie who has 12, going on 13 kids who look malnourished while she and her hubby are quite well-fed.  She often boasts about how the kids are fasting to pray for something or another and how the kids are constantly showering her with parties, gifts and attention while it is very clear that the kids themselves are deprived of many, if not most, of the simple things for themselves.  Her daughter was supposedly going to court some fundie dude and was thrilled beyond words that he gave her gum!  Same daughter just threw Jill a 'baby shower' for blessing #13 who isn't due until spring and the theme was "Pamper Mama" with most of the gifts being clothes and perfume and bedding for Jill.

There were other gifts beyond the "gum" including a bag of hershey kisses, a cross, a gift basket that included the gum and chocolate, and a few other things I can't remember.   A large portion of the  shower gifts that people actually bought or brought them included baby items. Jill registered for perfume, bedding and a mixer. She got some of the bedding. I don't think anyone gave her perfume, (based on the there were no pictures and those items remained unfulfilled on the registry.)  Most of the other details seem to be accurate.  

Edited January 17, 2018 by Temperance

[Arwen Evenstar]

The other comparison to the Rodriguii to this family, was that the children were subjected to vow renewal ceremonies, notably The Spectacle in Seuss.  Neither parent looked like they’d missed too many meals.

[DangerousMinds]

How could they reunify with both parents in jail?

[Fuzzysox]

Totally off topic but once authorities are called in what do they look for in the home? An empty fridge, no beds, etc. I've always wanted to know.

[Marigold]

2 hours ago, GussieK said:

Thank you for posting this.  I'm a disability rights lawyer, and I am familiar with many of these issues.  I wish I could go to battle for those kids.  I'm in NY, though.  I hope the public donates some money for them.  Remember things like the girl who fell in the well.  People donated a lot of money for her. 

I work in NY and some of my cases use disabilities lawyers! small world! We might've crossed paths and didn't know it!

[Mollie]

6 hours ago, SMama said:

CPS looks at family first and keeping minors together. Thirteen is quite a task, but APS will be working with the “adult” offspring.  The paternal grandparents are a no since grandma is defending their indefensible actions. I was able to place five children in the same home, but in a Midwest state (from CA). Their culture forbids taking in children without the parents’ permission. The parents were so selfish they would not give the many local relatives permission. The five were divided in foster care. However, their school psychologist and other school personnel were really involved. They would get the kids together as often as possible.  It was well worth the relocation and subsequent adoption. This happened after the incarcerated parents were unable to reunify. The relatives in the Midwest were younger and did not give a flying fig about not having the parents’ blessings. It was a about the kids.

When a child under age three is placed in protective custody alone or part of a sibling group, they are all fast tracked. Meaning the parents have much less time to reunify. The parents incarceration was a blessing to them. There is allegedly a two year old child, this will help the minors.

Two of the mother’s siblings were on TV and seemed horrified by what happened to their nieces and nephews. Both CPS and APS will have time to look for placement. They are all hospitalized and it may be a long road for all, especially the adults. I pray relatives rally around the victims and the 13 can remain near each other. 

Sorry about the long rant. I have several friends working at the office dealing with this case and my heart goes out to them. Difficult case, and no matter what they do they will get ripped apart by the community and the media.

Malnutrition in childhood causes irreversible brain damage, including mental retardation.  Even the older children (one is 29) may never be able to be self-sufficient.  Those adult children probably don't know how to do laundry, cook food, go grocery shopping, clean house, etc.  They don't even understand basic hygiene. It's going to cost millions of dollars for the authorities to care for these 13 siblings.

This is just another tragic case of "homeschooling" being used to cover up child abuse and endangerment.  Homeschooling must be more closely monitored and supervised by local municipalities.  It is outrageous that no one ever did a home study of the children's education.

Sadly, the living conditions of the Duggar children were dreadful until TLC came along and bailed out the family and got them out of that tiny house where they didn't even have adequate hot water.  The Duggar kids, too, talked about hiding food and lack of food security.  There wasn't even room in that old house for the kids to have their own beds.  Many of the children had learning disabilities, including dyslexia, that were not adequately addressed by Michelle's homeschooling.

I hope that this recent case of the Turpin children will lead to legislation requiring homeschools to be more closely supervised. 

[SMama]

As stupid as it sounds I have had MANY cases with incarcerated parents, even one when the father killed the mother. By law you MUST offer services to the incarcerated parents until parental rights are terminated. It’s a process. 

In many cases the children have visits in jail if that is what the judge orders.  Before terminating parental rights we have to document every effort was made to reunify. If the court finds reasonable services were not provided, the clock starts all over again. That leaves the child in legal limbo for up to three years. 

I had to sit across a confessed murderer in jail awaiting trial. Alone with the hope he would not turn violent. I doubt we would have since he was a sniveling little coward. I took precautions such as never sitting down  and stood behind a chair. Two reasons, if he ever even made a move he would have had a chair to the head. But more important was the psychological effect. I am about five inches taller than the coward. Standing up made him feel even smaller. I know it’s petty but I enjoyed making him feel like the POS he is. It’s all I could do for that poor motherless child. I also requested no visits, not even through the glass. I’m grateful we were granted that request. Sometimes the judges can be real asses in the name of reasonable services. The child was adopted by a sibling , but it is not an immediate process. 

I doubt the Turpins will get visitation, there will be plenty of mental health professionals able to advocate  on their behalf.

Liike Mollie explained the adult children may never be able to function. The adult child in the Munchausen case went from the hospital to a care facility.

Edited January 18, 2018 by SMama

[GeeGolly]

From what I've read it sounds like the kids were fed and clothed well until a couple of years ago when the family filed for bankruptcy and abruptly moved. One cop was quoted saying how intelligent and well spoken the 17 year old hero was.

I'm getting the picture that these kids have been emotionally and religiously controlled since birth, but not necessarily starved until recently. I also read all their names begin with J!

They have a long road ahead of them, but the new path is much better than the old one.

Edited January 18, 2018 by GeeGolly

[SMama]

@GeeGolly, please tell me you are kidding about the J names. What is it with abusive assholes and J names (Willis family also)? 

I was listening to the radio but not continuously, had not heard about the names. SBaba is the first man in the world to have the common cold and is in “I’m going to die” mode.  I told him if he says it one more time I’ll grant his wish. I’m an accommodating helpmeet. ?

Edited January 18, 2018 by SMama

[EtheltoTillie]

If this were a more normal family, the older children could be guardians for the younger ones. But that would likely not work here. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

19 minutes ago, GussieK said:

If this were a more normal family, the older children could be guardians for the younger ones. But that would likely not work here. 

It’s hard to be a guardian when you’re handcuffed. The house looked like a nice house from the outside.  Never know what goes on inside.  Authorities reported a foul smell inside. Dad wasn’t as good at fixing the shitter as Jim Boob was. 

[queenanne]

3 hours ago, SMama said:

@GeeGolly, please tell me you are kidding about the J names. What is it with abusive assholes and J names (Willis family also)? 

I was listening to the radio but not continuously, had not heard about the names. SBaba is the first man in the world to have the common cold and is in “I’m going to die” mode.  I told him if he says it one more time I’ll grant his wish. I’m an accommodating helpmeet. ?

Somebody somewhere along the line, said the ‘J’ is for Jesus, which makes such vast amounts of retro sense I’m surprised no one has said it for or about the Duggars.  Unfortunately I can’t recall where I read it.

[Arwen Evenstar]

10 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Somebody somewhere along the line, said the ‘J’ is for Jesus, which makes such vast amounts of retro sense I’m surprised no one has said it for or about the Duggars.  Unfortunately I can’t recall where I read it.

Well, Jim Boob thinks he’s Jesus Christ, so there ya go!

[zoomama]

oh guys, i want to put this hear since we were talking about the 13 kids turpin family. i saw on the news tonight that, as i have said, they used to live in texas in a town REAL close to my kids ( i have driven thru that town numerous times). the news was interviewing people that took possession of the house that the turpins had repossessed from them, thus facilitating their move to cali. the new owners took photos of the condition of it. OMG!  the floors//carpets were full of huge dark stains (blood?feces? dunno) and the windows were broken and boarded from the inside. the insides of the interior doors had SCRATCH marks from fingernails among the filth smeared on them. i cant even believe what i saw. that makes the scenes from today of the authorities dressing in virtually hazmat suits to go into the house and look for evidence more understandable. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, zoomama said:

i cant even believe what i saw. that makes the scenes from today of the authorities dressing in virtually hazmat suits to go into the house and look for evidence more understandable. 

I can’t believe I didn’t chunder all over my tablet after reading this. That’s beyond gross.

Turpin is/was an engineer, and most engineers are taught about sanitation, either as part of their coursework or on the job safety training.  He makes/made 140K a year. One can live quite well in Texas in that, but I imagine it doesn’t go as far in California due to the higher cost of housing.  Most professionals don’t make near that much. He will definitely be unemployable after this case, as he faces loss of his professional license if he had one.  So sad for those kids.

if he’s a civil engineer, he’s got no excuse for not knowing his house isn’t a sewer, nor should anyone live like that.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Arwen Evenstar

[GeeGolly]

You don't need to be an engineer to know poop belongs in a toilet. :)

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

 

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

You don't need to be an engineer to know poop belongs in a toilet. :)

 

But when you are Headshit Supreme, particularly a highly educated one, there’s no excuse for that level of gross, unless you have serious mental health issues.

[tabloidlover]

8 hours ago, zoomama said:

oh guys, i want to put this hear since we were talking about the 13 kids turpin family. i saw on the news tonight that, as i have said, they used to live in texas in a town REAL close to my kids ( i have driven thru that town numerous times). the news was interviewing people that took possession of the house that the turpins had repossessed from them, thus facilitating their move to cali. the new owners took photos of the condition of it. OMG!  the floors//carpets were full of huge dark stains (blood?feces? dunno) and the windows were broken and boarded from the inside. the insides of the interior doors had SCRATCH marks from fingernails among the filth smeared on them. i cant even believe what i saw. that makes the scenes from today of the authorities dressing in virtually hazmat suits to go into the house and look for evidence more understandable. 

This is so depressing.  My heart breaks for those children.   I cannot even imagine the trauma they have survived.   Bless that 17 year old girl.   I'm hoping donations will pour in for them to help them over the next several years because it's gonna take time.

 

*Is it too much to ask that the parents be shackled with a very short chain to their bed?   As in, not even long enough to allow them to sleep in the cot?   And I hope they do without food too.   

Edited January 18, 2018 by tabloidlover
additional thought

[madpsych78]

5 minutes ago, tabloidlover said:

This is so depressing.  My heart breaks for those children.   I cannot even imagine the trauma they have survived.   Bless that 17 year old girl.   I'm hoping donations will pour in for them to help them over the next several years because it's gonna take time.

 

*Is it too much to ask that the parents be shackled with a very short chain to their bed?   As in, not even long enough to allow them to sleep in the cot?   And I hope they do without food too.   

I think that would be a very appropriate punishment for the parents. An eye for an eye...

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, SMama said:

@GeeGolly, please tell me you are kidding about the J names. What is it with abusive assholes and J names (Willis family also)? 

I was listening to the radio but not continuously, had not heard about the names. SBaba is the first man in the world to have the common cold and is in “I’m going to die” mode.  I told him if he says it one more time I’ll grant his wish. I’m an accommodating helpmeet. ?

J is for Jesus. 

I do not think that "suffer the little children to come unto me" means anything like what you think it means. 

[SMama]

Huh?

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

But when you are Headshit Supreme, particularly a highly educated one, there’s no excuse for that level of gross, unless you have serious mental health issues.

Well, it's possible that the father, never fully stable but close to it, really did flip out and lose it when he lost his last job. There's been speculation about that since the story seems to be that the family seemed okay although highly eccentric and somewhat culty when they were last regularly seen by family and acquaintances, five to six years ago.

But when the father lost his last job and they moved, he may have lost a lot of his mind, too. .... Maybe he'd set up a system of relatively benign control and "togetherness" and then when his income disappeared he completely lost it and could no longer tell rational measures from irrational when it came to "protecting" the kids from the un-Christian world we live in. That "protection" thing seems to come up a lot in connection with this family. 

And if he no longer had the means to care properly for the giant brood he'd produced when he was making a good salary, he might have just lost it, descended into confusion and deepened paranoia about the threats the world poses and started taking increasingly extreme measures to do what looked to him like "holding his family together." If you combine that with a really bad financial situation that he'd never faced before and didn't know how to handle, I think you could get something like he horror that's been found. 

8 minutes ago, SMama said:

Huh?

What? .... I quoted more than I meant to of your post. I was just commenting that J is probably the letter a lot of them go to because it stands for "Jesus" and then making a bad joke about them misunderstanding the KJB "suffer the children" line. In other words, NVM  ;  ) 

 

 

 

On another note -- 

A comment on not fleeing whatever situation you happen to be in: 

'Psychiatrists say that even in cases of extreme deprivation, it's common for feelings of helplessness or confusion to lead to staying in place despite opportunities to flee.

'"This happens all the time. The number of individuals who would immediately respond to an opportunity where they could get away is very small compared to the number of people who would have that paralysis and insecurity and confusion about what to do," said Dr. Bruce Perry, a psychiatrist and senior fellow at The ChildTrauma Academy in Houston.'

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/grandparents-reveal-details-about-13-siblings-starved-tortured-by-parents/

Edited January 18, 2018 by Churchhoney

[SMama]

Sorry @Churchhoney, not fully awake. ?