S04.E02: Goodnight, Mother

[radishcake]

Norma and Norman each suspect the other in a terrible deed; Dylan contemplates his future with Emma; Romero makes a choice that drastically impacts the Bates family.

[Primetimer]

The disappearance of a dead body sends Norman into even more of an overheated tizzy than he usually enjoys, and things progress between his mother and Alex.

Read the story

[Spartan Girl]

Holy. Hell.

Where is Vera's Emmy and where is Freddie's Emmy?

This episode did the impossible: it made me feel sorry for Norma. I still say that most of what happened is her fault, but even though she never should have had children, her heartbreak as she realizes the full extent of what Norman has become was undeniable.

You know in a twisted way, it's not that much of a stretch for Norman to genuinely believe his mother is the killer. After all, he has seen her kill a man then pathologically deny that it ever happened. Insanity runs in the family.

It's official: Romero signed his own death warrant. The shippers better enjoy it while it lasts because it's gonna be one short honeymoon.

[Chaos Theory]

Why doesn't this show get emmy's? Vera and Freddie were amazingly good.

Again with a very telling line. One of many actually but this is my favorite: "You do love me. That's the heartbreak of it all."

My thoughts while Norman was accusing Norma of all the murders, "If only it were so." Then I thought what fun it would be if it were so.

Still I can't help but think poor Norman.

Oh and two further thoughts:

Bates Motel: the new show for Romanticism.

Norma if seducing your son stops him from killing you....seduce away.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[thuganomics85]

If never even occurred to me that Norman was going to think Norma was responsible for these murders all along.  But it makes total sense.  From his warped perspective, yeah, he sees glimpses of her killing people like Bradley and Emma's mom, and assumes it was her and he witnessed them.  It is totally crazy, but I can see why Norman thinks this.  Man, this is insane!

 

Pretty much all of the Norma/Norman confrontation scenes were perfect.  Honestly, as scary as he was yelling at her, what really creeped me out was whenever Norman would calmly told her what and whatnot to do, because there was so much intensity and menace behind it, plus it just feels so strange to see a son boss his mother around like that, and get away with it.  It just feels wrong.  And then the gun comes out.  I honestly thought the show might totally go there and kill off Norma this early on.  At least Norman is now going to the care center, but I obviously doubt that is going to fix anything, to say the least.

 

So far, things are looking good for Emma.  I have to think Olivia Cooke will be glad to not have lug around that tank and gasp every other line from here on out.  But now Dylan is realizing that maybe being in the weed business isn't the best thing for a serious relationship.  Although, when Emma's dad said something like "You're better then that!", I totally wanted Dylan to go the opposite way and be all "You're right!  Weed is for amateurs!  Time to get into heroin!  Or better yet, meth!  Time to get my Jesse Pinkman on, bitches!" 

 

Oh, Romero.  I can't believe your going for it.  I get people marry for different reasons, but marry in order for your crush to use your insurance to take care of her crazy, violent son, has to be one of the strangest reasons yet.

 

Already preparing to be disappointed when neither Vera Farmiga or Freddie Highmore get Emmy nods this season.

[Dobian]

Poor Romero. Marrying Norma and packing Norman off to the high-priced nut farm...it was nice knowing you.

[queenanne]

If never even occurred to me that Norman was going to think Norma was responsible for these murders all along.  But it makes total sense.  From his warped perspective, yeah, he sees glimpses of her killing people like Bradley and Emma's mom, and assumes it was her and he witnessed them.  It is totally crazy, but I can see why Norman thinks this.  Man, this is insane!

 

...

 

Oh, Romero.  I can't believe your going for it.  I get people marry for different reasons, but marry in order for your crush to use your insurance to take care of her crazy, violent son, has to be one of the strangest reasons yet.

 

Already preparing to be disappointed when neither Vera Farmiga or Freddie Highmore get Emmy nods this season.

 

It does make sense, and I think part of the fun of earlier episodes and seasons is trying to guess in just which ways Norma is culpable.  Probably increases our identification to and with poor deluded Norman.

 

What I loved most about last week, in retrospect, is that Romero listened to Norma's proposal in complete neutral silence.  No signs of interest - or even shock - whatsoever. (Which is probably a good tactic for dealing with Norma - disengage until you can assess WTF is going on with a situation.)  He must be way lonely for this to sound attractive, poor baby.  Not that I don't think Norma likes him more than she is letting on to herself, but she's so outwardly lukewarm.

 

The key to an Emmy campaign, if serious, I think is to pester some TV journalist to start talking it up once the topic starts being discussed at all.  Mitovich, dos Santos, Sepinwall, etc.  Maybe more than one.  I'm almost exercised enough by now to go for it.  Every week somebody impresses me with their acting, and usually all of them.  

[Bama]

Does Norman still have the gun?  Once Romero showed up, no one said "Give me the gun, Norman" nor were we shown them taking it away from him.

 

Norma runs out, screaming and begging for Norman to sign the Pineview papers - he does and then Romero leaves to take Norman to Pineview and we see Norma watching them leave - with the papers still in her hand.

 

If Norman actually makes it to Pineview - meaning he doesn't shoot Romero with that gun no one took from him and escapes - there are going to be some patients that go missing once Norman is under that roof.

[rue721]

Does Norman still have the gun?  Once Romero showed up, no one said "Give me the gun, Norman" nor were we shown them taking it away from him.

 

Norma took the gun from Norman while Romero and the deputy were running down the stairs and she was apologizing. She did it really casually -- just took it gently from his hand -- and he didn't try to stop her at all.

 

I think Romero genuinely "gets" Norma. He must have felt terrible once it sunk in that she'd come to him in her hour of need (with the most unromantic marriage proposal possible) and he just said no. I wasn't surprised that he went over to apologize and help her however he could. Also, I think he identifies with her and actually understands how she feels. Judging from what he told the lady at Pine View, he also had a sick mother as well as a violent father and he's been through pretty similar stuff before.

 

Poor Norma! All I could think when Norman was basically keeping her captive in the house was that this had to have been the FIRST home where she didn't have to live with someone who abused and terrorized her. No abusive father or brother or husband, just her and her kids. And now one of her kids has become so frightening! I guess she'll never be safe.

 

After she called Romero, partly to say goodbye and partly to ask for help, I expected her to call Dylan. I don't know how I feel that she didn't!

 

Emma's dad is right that Dylan isn't going to be able to keep up with Emma long-term unless he changes himself/his life. But honestly, Emma probably is ready to be "unleashed on the world," whereas Dylan is probably ready for some peace. They're adorable together, but I think they're going in opposite directions, and aren't a good match. Also, tbh, if neither of them need saving anymore, their relationship is probably going to have to change A LOT.

[queenanne]

This episode made me positively giddy.

 

Norman actually does have DID, to the extent where he fully thinks and believes that Norma is evil murderess and he has to protect people from her.  I believe he believes this utterly, and that’s the potential chilling flip side of her secrecy:  who is going to ultimately be believed?  With no evidence etc.?

 

How masterful was Romero?  (Also when he first showed up on Norma’s doorstep he looked about a bashful eighteen.  Loved how they managed to make Norma’s creepy driveway backdrop look like the wholesome Backyard Next Door behind him for a hot second, too.)  Now that we know he is Son of a Mentally Ill Mother himself, his attachment to Norma makes much more sense - he's trying to relive and fix childhood traumas, but sadly for him, there's only room for one son in this equation, and we all know who this is. 

 

Also masterful to make him suspicious of Norman, and not to have forgotten about it or been lulled into momentary quiescence.  The suspicion part, is the only part that gives me confidence that Norman won’t get the drop on him in the kitchen and shoot him with his own gun all unsuspecting, some random day.  The redheaded administrator was looking at him all respectful, wasn’t she?  All “Better you than me marrying into that family, badass.” 

 

This is going to be killer to watch (no pun intended), because Romero is all in, and Norma will probably grow to love him beyond selfishness; but simultaneously, her first priority will always be Norman, so conflicts galore.

Edited March 15, 2016 by queenanne

[OhioMom]

I thought it was odd that Norman just docile-y went along with Romero. One minute, he's a raging maniac, 30 seconds later, all the fight has gone out of him.

There were a couple times last night where I covered my eyes -- I was sure Norma was going to get it, and couldn't watch. LOL!

 

I love this show.

[Timetoread]

I don't know about this season.  The previous seasons it was mostly fun to watch but there was an aftertaste of dread because you knew where this was going eventually.  This season dread is replaced with a mix of sorrow and terror.  I am one of the few people who doesn't hate Norma or fault her for Norman.  She could have put him in Pineview as an infant and he'd still grow up to be criminally insane.  Norman needs a padded cell - not meds, not therapy.  He needs to be caged.

 

I think Romero genuinely "gets" Norma. He must have felt terrible once it sunk in that she'd come to him in her hour of need (with the most unromantic marriage proposal possible) and he just said no. I wasn't surprised that he went over to apologize and help her however he could. Also, I think he identifies with her and actually understands how she feels.

 

I think he "gets" Norma too.  Here's the thing people don't get about melodramatic people (yeah, I'm talking about myself) is that dramatic doesn't equal liar.  Norma is eccentric and lacks certain social skills but she is not making up what is happening in her family to get sympathy.  Quite the opposite, she isn't vocal enough about how bad things really are.  She's been molested, raped and assaulted, all the while trying to protect that which she loves most in the world - and that one thing is the thing that is the MOST dangerous.  Romero is getting quicker and quicker on the uptake that whenever Norma asks him for off the wall help in her oddball way, she's actually in far more trouble than that.  Also it kind of broke my heart how seriously he took the marriage proposal.  He really is love starved and there is even more tragedy in the fact that Norma and Romero may have actually had a good chance at true love with each other but won't get to because of the 800 pound serial killer in the room.

 

I have to say that in the scenes with Norma and Norman, I was barely breathing and I wanted to cry when she picked up the scissors.  Right or wrong she loves Norman so much but the horror in realizing the monster that he is.  Especially when he started listing the people he killed - she only knew of one. 

 

At the rate that it is going, I don't see how we get a fifth season.  Norman almost killed her last night.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Timetoread

[littlemommy]

This was an intense episode. I fully expect that Norma will be murdered on the season finale, but for a few minutes last night I wasn't sure she'd make it that long. My husband went to the bathroom and I called out, in my oh-so eloquent way "Hurry, honey, I think Norma might bite it!!!"

[Nutjob]

With all the uncomfortable scenes in this episode, the one where Norma was practically making out with Norman to keep him from killing her made me the most uncomfortable. They're both so damaged, and the inappropriate closeness of their relationship is just one more element that has contributed to Norman's psychosis. There's never been enough of a boundary between them, and now the line has blurred almost completely.

[Avaleigh]

I don't know about this season.  The previous seasons it was mostly fun to watch but there was an aftertaste of dread because you knew where this was going eventually.  This season dread is replaced with a mix of sorrow and terror.  I am one of the few people who doesn't hate Norma or fault her for Norman.  She could have put him in Pineview as an infant and he'd still grow up to be criminally insane.  Norman needs a padded cell - not meds, not therapy.  He needs to be caged.

 

 

I think he "gets" Norma too.  Here's the thing people don't get about melodramatic people (yeah, I'm talking about myself) is that dramatic doesn't equal liar.  Norma is eccentric and lacks certain social skills but she is not making up what is happening in her family to get sympathy.  Quite the opposite, she isn't vocal enough about how bad things really are.  She's been molested, raped and assaulted, all the while trying to protect that which she loves most in the world - and that one thing is the thing that is the MOST dangerous.  Romero is getting quicker and quicker on the uptake that whenever Norma asks him for off the wall help in her oddball way, she's actually in far more trouble than that.  Also it kind of broke my heart how seriously he took the marriage proposal.  He really is love starved and there is even more tragedy in the fact that Norma and Romero may have actually had a good chance at true love with each other but won't get to because of the 800 pound serial killer in the room.

 

I have to say that in the scenes with Norma and Norman, I was barely breathing and I wanted to cry when she picked up the scissors.  Right or wrong she loves Norman so much but the horror in realizing the monster that he is.  Especially when he started listing the people he killed - she only knew of one. 

 

At the rate that it is going, I don't see how we get a fifth season.  Norman almost killed her last night.

I'm convinced that the fifth season will only have Norman's vision of Norma. 

 

Norma and Romero are headed straight for disaster. I felt like this episode set up a lot of what was speculated on last season. 

 

I was genuinely afraid for Norma. I honestly thought there was a chance he'd kill her and we'd get to that storyline sooner than I'd anticipated. 

 

Agreed with others that Norman needs to be put away. I'm glad Norma said that it needed to happen immediately. 

 

Norman did kill his father, right? That vision of his father was just made up to make everything make sense in his head, right? 

[ari333]

Wow this was purely terrifying. Loved it !

 

When Norman talks in that calm voice it is so very scary!

 

Now I will be afraid of turkey pot pie hehehehe. I thought Norma was toast at that point at the table.

[Chaos Theory]

This episode is the perfect example of why this show is one of my top five shows on tv today. The acting was top notch by everyone and the sense of sadness And dread was almost another character.

The scenes between Norman and Norma are always a treat but I felt genuinely bad for both of them multiple times thought the episode.

It's possibly that season five will be a full on Psycho remake. Which would be interesting.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Dobian]

What was jarring for me is how quickly Norman has accelerated down the path to full-on Norman Bates.  Ever since the return of Bradley late last season, it's been like a tidal wave.  I think that makes sense, he couldn't incrementally progress to what he becomes by the start of Psycho forever, there had to be a tipping point where the flood gates just open, and they really opened last night.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Dobian

[ari333]

I enjoy the sheriff. I hope he's not toast, but he very well could be given the situation now....

.taking Norman to the hospital.... marrying Norma - if that happens.  = TOAST 

[Fable]

This show is usually creepy yet fun, but there was nothing fun about this episode.  It was terrifying and intense.  I was on the edge of my seat almost throughout.  

 

Color me surprised that Romero agreed to marry Norma.  I know he has been carrying a torch for a while now,  but I wan't expecting that at all.   I hope he and and Norma survive this season, because I can't imagine the show without the dynamics they bring, but with things ratcheting up this much so early in the season, the odds don't seem to be in their favor.

[ari333]

They sure jacked it up a notch or 11. Wow.

 

I, too, was shocked about Alex agreeing to marry Norma since he was so flat and meh last week about it at the door.  If he really had a mentally ill mom, then he sort of gets it. Empathy.

 

Overall... powerful eppy.

 

Norman's calm voice terrifies me.

Edited March 15, 2016 by ari333

[Avaleigh]

The only thing that I reminded myself is that Norma got married before she was killed so I guessed/hoped that she wouldn't die. 

 

One thing that's different (I think) about this prequel is Norman spending time in a mental health facility prior to the murders of his mother and stepfather. I thought one of the reasons that nobody looked in Norman's direction was because he seemed so innocent. Norman was a suspect for Blair Watson's murder, he was thrown into that county place, and now he'll have a record of being in this posh place. How is it not going to be crystal clear to people that he's guilty? 

[islandgal140]

Norma runs out, screaming and begging for Norman to sign the Pineview papers - he does and then Romero leaves to take Norman to Pineview and we see Norma watching them leave - with the papers still in her hand.

 

You know, Norman's demeanor was so inscrutable to me at the end that I half expected that the end shot would be of Norma looking at the document and realizing that Norman had signed it as Norma Bates. 

 

I must have watched that scene over the turkey pot pie dinner 3 times. So amazing! Those 2 actors deserve all the awards! 

 

The only thing more frightening than Norman in a rage is Norman's chilling calm commandments to Norma. The scenes of Norman telling Norma what he was and wasn't going to do and what she was and wasn't gonna do were just so full of feels that I can't even describe it. 

 

This season is on fire!

 

I want to care about Dylan and Emma but the Bates dynamic is so riveting that I can't wait to get back to it. 

[ari333]

Is this on A & E? (I forgot bc the dvr picks it up) If so, do folks not watch A & E? Bc this show is so outstanding I cant understand why it isn't just... as mentioned.... on fire in the media and everywhere. The cast is brill. The writing.... Im on the edge of my seat.  

Edited March 15, 2016 by ari333

[FurryFury]

Holy shit, that was heartbreaking. And also really scary and suspenseful. But mostly heartbreaking.

 

I felt for Norma so much I was on the verge of tears myself, and that doesn't happen to me often. Vera and Freddie, as usual, knocked it out of the park. Hell, I wanted to give Norma a hug so much! Finally, she does the right thing (but too late). And of course, it is something that would ruin her. 

 

She did get lucky with Romero (well, as much lucky as you can say about a character who's destined to die). Dude's got it bad. Great chemistry in their scene together, though. And also great chemistry with Dylan and Emma - I'm impressed that both major romances on the show are so well-acted (even if I still feel like Dylan and Emma got the short end of the stick, writing-wise - but hey, they at least have a theoretical chance to make it out alive!)

 

I'm ready for Dylan to return to Norma though. I understand why he needed to be missing for two episodes for the plot to work, but I really miss him and Norma.

 

PS At the end, when Norman was signing the papers, I was expecting him to stab Norma in the eye with the pen or something. He's just so creepy now.

[ari333]

Was there a brother in the original Psycho?  or a step father? Was Mother remarried at any point in the original story? TIA

[Avaleigh]

Was there a brother in the original Psycho?  or a step father? Was Mother remarried at any point in the original story? TIA

I thought there was a mention of a brother in the original Psycho. I also thought in the original that Norman flipped out after his mother got married because he liked it when it was just the two of them.

 

I think it was thought to be a murder suicide. I'm not sure about this last part though.

 

Everyone in town knew that Norman's mother was dead but with visitors Norman would pretend that she was alive. I definitely think that we're going to see Norman pretending that Norma is alive on this show.  

[Dobian]

You know, Norman's demeanor was so inscrutable to me at the end that I half expected that the end shot would be of Norma looking at the document and realizing that Norman had signed it as Norma Bates. 

 

 

I thought that too!  I pictured her seeing 'Norma Bates', then taking out her pen and adding an 'n', saying, "That's better".

[Avaleigh]

You know, Norman's demeanor was so inscrutable to me at the end that I half expected that the end shot would be of Norma looking at the document and realizing that Norman had signed it as Norma Bates. 

This would have been awesome. 

[milner]

I don't know much about private insurance but would a police officer's insurance cover the pre-existing condition of a brand new wife's 18 year old son---especially in such a ritzy, expensive place?

Edited March 15, 2016 by milner

[rue721]

I don't know much about private insurance but would a police officer's insurance cover the pre-existing condition of a brand new wife's 18 year old son---especially in such a ritzy, expensive place?

 

I think that Romero would be able to put his wife (Norma) on his insurance, and Norma would be able to put her son(s) on her insurance until they're 26 y/o. So I think that Romero would be able to get Norman insured.

 

The ACA outlawed the "preexisting condition" coverage exemption, so the insurer wouldn't be able to keep Norman off the insurance or refuse to pay for mental health care based on him having a preexisting mental health condition.

 

My biggest issue with the "I need insurance!" storyline is that I would think that Norma could get insurance from the marketplace. In fact, I would think she'd NEED to in order to avoid the penalty. And even if the insurance were expensive, there's no way the premiums and copays, etc, could be more expensive than trying to pay Pine View out of pocket, so...

 

But whatever, the world of Bates Motel isn't exactly the same as the actual world, so maybe their version of the ACA is meant to be slightly different :P

[JodhaBai]

The freakiest part for me was the woman still being alive as Norman/Norma stuffed her in the freezer.

 

I love this show

[BananaRama]

Boy! Vera Farmiga is acting the hell out of her Norma Bates character. She switches from vulnerable, to pissy, to wacky, to scared, to seductress - seamlessly!

[peacheslatour]

Was there a brother in the original Psycho?  or a step father? Was Mother remarried at any point in the original story? TIA

Ed Gein, on whom Norman Bates is based had a brother who died under mysterious circumstances.  In the movie Norma did re-marry and when Norman killed them out of jealousy, it was assumed to be a murder/suicide.

[Glade]

This was brilliant.  It's kind of appropriate, given how much Norma has projected onto Norman in the past, that she would be the recipient of it now.  And what he said hit so close that she didn't even start screaming back as per usual.  I loved how they both began to suspect the other of killing Emma's mother, and from an outside perspective it's totally plausible that either one of them did do it.  Norma is the one who taught Norman of how to dispose of a dead body, after all.  

 

I didn't realize that Norman had internalized versions of both of his abusive parents.  But bring his father in for that scene was very effective. The way Norma was kissing him was really creepy, borderline making out.

 

Norma could have just called the police when her husband died and explained the situation--that her husband was trying to kill her, and her son who had also long been the victim of his beatings, stepped in to protect her and just hit him once not realizing the blow would be fatal.  Norman likely wouldn't have been prosecuted and they both could have gotten therapy, separately.  But no, she wanted to run away with the insurance money and keep all of her family secrets hidden and vent her toxic personality on the people in a new town.  She wanted to narcisistically feed off of her son and make him into her surrogate spouse regardless of what the consequences would be on his psyche.  She has no idea how to protect anyone, she constantly invites drama and chaos into her life, and has very skewed perceptions on what is safe vs dangerous, healthy vs. not.

 

I guess Romero took him to the station overnight?  They aren't likely to check him into pineview at 2am (or whatever time it was--I guess it was winter because the whole day seemed like night) and Romero didn't try to take the signed consent forms with him.  It occurred to me that even if Norman signed "Norma" on the paper, it's not that big of a mistake to cause notice.

 

I guess Romero is gradually going to fall into a real marriage with Norma, as sad as that is. 

 

Will Dylan one day ask "Did Bradley really come back, anyway?"  Maybe he is understandably bitter that her actions sparked a gang war that claimed the lives of dozens of people, including almost his, and thus won't ask. 

Edited March 15, 2016 by Glade

[Peanut6711]

I think that Romero would be able to put his wife (Norma) on his insurance, and Norma would be able to put her son(s) on her insurance until they're 26 y/o. So I think that Romero would be able to get Norman insured.

 

The ACA outlawed the "preexisting condition" coverage exemption, so the insurer wouldn't be able to keep Norman off the insurance or refuse to pay for mental health care based on him having a preexisting mental health condition.

 

My biggest issue with the "I need insurance!" storyline is that I would think that Norma could get insurance from the marketplace. In fact, I would think she'd NEED to in order to avoid the penalty. And even if the insurance were expensive, there's no way the premiums and copays, etc, could be more expensive than trying to pay Pine View out of pocket, so...

 

But whatever, the world of Bates Motel isn't exactly the same as the actual world, so maybe their version of the ACA is meant to be slightly different :P

THIS. It's been bugging my hubs and I since the last episode. Plus, Norma should have/be able to get some kind of small business health insurance through the motel, which she has Norman operating as the manager making him an employe. Does Norma not have insurance herself either???

[Lostinthehouse]

A beautiful moment occurred in the very first opening shot:  the creepy house standing on the hill, with a shadow of Norma appearing in the upper left window.  That re-tells (or foreshadows) a similar scene from the movie, when Janet Leigh looks up at the house and sees Norman's mother in the window.  Excellent opening.

[ari333]

A beautiful moment occurred in the very first opening shot:  the creepy house standing on the hill, with a shadow of Norma appearing in the upper left window.  That re-tells (or foreshadows) a similar scene from the movie, when Janet Leigh looks up at the house and sees Norman's mother in the window.  Excellent opening.

Oh man, how did I  miss that? wow

[Fable]

I definitely think that we're going to see Norman pretending that Norma is alive on this show. 

 

I hope you're wrong or at least that it doesn't happen until right before the series ends.  Even if we got to keep Vera as Mother, I think the show would lack without her as Norma, and I think it is fair to say that Mother and Norma are two different entities.  Mother is cold and calculating, whereas Norma can be manipulative but she is still very vulnerable and somewhat naive.  Norma is much more compelling to me than Mother.  

 

I fully anticipate Norma and Romero dying before all is said and done, but I hope there is quite a bit more story for them to tell before that happens.  I am keeping my fingers crossed.

[queenanne]

The only thing that I reminded myself is that Norma got married before she was killed so I guessed/hoped that she wouldn't die. 

 

One thing that's different (I think) about this prequel is Norman spending time in a mental health facility prior to the murders of his mother and stepfather. I thought one of the reasons that nobody looked in Norman's direction was because he seemed so innocent. Norman was a suspect for Blair Watson's murder, he was thrown into that county place, and now he'll have a record of being in this posh place. How is it not going to be crystal clear to people that he's guilty? 

 

That's a really good question, and one which makes me wonder if Romero is drawn into the coverup.  He's already got experience, with the town drug thing, and frankly, now that you mention it the Blaire Watson interrogation scene, is the primary one I remember where it really looked like Romero twigged that Norman did it..

 

This was brilliant.  It's kind of appropriate, given how much Norma has projected onto Norman in the past, that she would be the recipient of it now.  And what he said hit so close that she didn't even start screaming back as per usual.  I loved how they both began to suspect the other of killing Emma's mother, and from an outside perspective it's totally plausible that either one of them did do it.  Norma is the one who taught Norman of how to dispose of a dead body, after all.  

 

Come to think of it... who did do it?  The only reason why I ask is, there was a flash of particular cold meanness that Max T. allowed to cross his face as he was leaving Emma's hospital room at the end of the last scene, and it seemed kind of out of place without.  Is there any possible option that while Norma and Norman are dancing around the question, Dylan popped in and did away with Emma's mom's corpse?  Depending on what Mr. Decody said, Dylan could have just as much dislike of Emma's mom and said, hell yeah, I'll help you hide her body.

[Fable]

Is there any possible option that while Norma and Norman are dancing around the question, Dylan popped in and did away with Emma's mom's corpse?  Depending on what Mr. Decody said, Dylan could have just as much dislike of Emma's mom and said, hell yeah, I'll help you hide her body.

 

Do you mean do away with Emma's mom corpse or Emma's mom?   I guess anything is possible, but I don't see how it fits the narrative.  They are in Portland, away from Bates Motel and have no idea what is happening on that front.  I doubt they would have any idea that Norman disposed of her, so would have no reason to get rid of the corpse.  Could they have had her killed, perhaps, but then why would Norman have any recollection af that at all? 

 

This episode was so dramatic and intense what with all the Norma/Norman goings on, that Dylan and Emma didn't really get a fair mention.  Of course Emma's father is going to do the dad thing and tell Dylan to straighten up and fly right or move on, as he should.  Dylan seemed like he was at a crossroad here, like he wants all good things for Emma, but he is not sure he is the one to provide them.  Dylan has lived hard and doesn't know anything other than what he is.  I think he wants to stay, but feels like he should leave to give Emma a shot at a better future.  I was glad Emma told him she wanted him to come back.  It was really the only bright spot in all the craziness!   I really hope things work out for these two crazy kids.

[ganesh]

If never even occurred to me that Norman was going to think Norma was responsible for these murders all along.

 

Looks like our reasoning in the last thread was way way way off. So Norman can't distinguish between Norma and Mother? It looks like Norman is heading to kill her because he thinks she did all the killings. He's got to have a massive psychotic break to get to the movie.

 

She could have put him in Pineview as an infant and he'd still grow up to be criminally insane.

 

The whole point of the show is that it's a tragedy. There's been several instances where Norma could have gotten Norman help and didn't. That's why the show works. Norman was never too weird or a loner. He had friends at school, reasonably well-liked, went on dates, etc. Every time there's been an issue, Norma has made the absolute worst choice, and now it's too late.

Norma could have just called the police when her husband died and explained the situation--that her husband was trying to kill her, and her son who had also long been the victim of his beatings, stepped in to protect her and just hit him once not realizing the blow would be fatal.

 

Hence, the tragic element of the show. 

 

 

I think that Romero would be able to put his wife (Norma) on his insurance, and Norma would be able to put her son(s) on her insurance until they're 26 y/o.

 

Thanks, Obama!

 

And I'm aware they mentioned Watson again. 

 

The show is still kind of light though. It's a drama about Norman Bates, *the* psycho. They could stand to get a little more creepy and intense, no? 

[queenanne]

Do you mean do away with Emma's mom corpse or Emma's mom?   I guess anything is possible, but I don't see how it fits the narrative.  They are in Portland, away from Bates Motel and have no idea what is happening on that front.  I doubt they would have any idea that Norman disposed of her, so would have no reason to get rid of the corpse.  Could they have had her killed, perhaps, but then why would Norman have any recollection af that at all? 

 

I was thinking, the corpse.  Thanks for reminding me they went to/were in Portland, which I'd temporarily forgotten!

[natyxg]

I don't know about this season.  The previous seasons it was mostly fun to watch but there was an aftertaste of dread because you knew where this was going eventually.  This season dread is replaced with a mix of sorrow and terror.  I am one of the few people who doesn't hate Norma or fault her for Norman.  She could have put him in Pineview as an infant and he'd still grow up to be criminally insane.  Norman needs a padded cell - not meds, not therapy.  He needs to be caged.

 

I love Norma. I find her a really fucked up, engaging, sympathetic character. And I think it makes sense that she is, since we all know Norman is going to kill her making us feel for her (at least I do) will make it hurt so much more when he does.

 

And I too think Norman's whole thing isn't her fault, at least not overwhelmingly. She hasn't been mother of the year because she's so fucked up, but Norman had already killed someone in episode one. Their family is also completely screwed and IIRC there is even a history of mental illness in Norma's family, on top of her abusive husband. Plus, the Norma in Norman's head has always been quite different from Norma... colder, more menacing. I think the implication of it all is that Norman has been mentally ill all along, and a lot of it is possibly hereditary.  I think Norma's parenting would probably breed screwed up kids like Dylan, but not a full on crazy person like Norman.

[placate]

I feel kinda weird about this show. We know how it's going to end up but the acting is so great. How is this going to go beyond this season? Norman is now all crazy and confused because he thinks Norma is messed up and killing people. Norma is trying to help out Norman in any way possible, only for him to throw horrible accusations at her. They're both nutty and neurotic.

 

We have a bunch of amoral yet sympathetic characters sitting on the sidelines. Are they just going to be future victims or are their characters going to come into play this season?

[Timetoread]

I don't know much about private insurance but would a police officer's insurance cover the pre-existing condition of a brand new wife's 18 year old son---especially in such a ritzy, expensive place?

Hence the bribe.

[truthaboutluv]

She hasn't been mother of the year because she's so fucked up, but Norman had already killed someone in episode one.

 

Yes he did, while in a blacked out state, with no recollection and she covered it up. I have been taking a break from message boards but I had to break my sabbatical to comment on this. As I have said many times before, of course Norman is mentally ill, as in something clinically wrong with him, that one cannot blame Norma for. That being said, in my opinion, Norma IS culpable in many ways for where things have gotten and I absolutely agreed with the county hospital therapist last week that her behavior could be seen as negligent. 

 

Norma KNEW something was wrong with Norman and has known for awhile and her answer to it was always to lie, conceal, etc. I highly doubt when Norman killed his father that was the first time he ever blacked out and yet she never took him to a doctor. When she murdered creepy and gross Keith, Norman was the one who said call the police, pleaded with her that it was self-defense and it would be okay. No, her answer was to cover it up and drag her 17 year old kid in as an accomplice and proceed to further tell him how all they had in this world was just each other. And that same creepy co-dependence manifested in her irritation with him trying to make friends, denying him joining any groups. Then when he later gets into taxidermy, that's when she's suddenly all, "it's not normal to be here in this basement with dead animals, go play a sport or get friends..." Well gee at that point Norman sees this as her wanting to get rid of him since all she'd told him is how all they have is each other. 

 

When Dylan finds out the truth about Norman's dad, he tells her maybe Norman needs help and her answer is to threaten to never speak to Dylan again if he ever breathes a word of what happened to anyone. When  Norman remembers killing Ms. Watson and he confronts Norma that something is wrong with him and she's lying to him about it, again her response is, "no, you're a good boy, you're just confused." Then she finally gets a clue and gets desperate enough to want him to talk to someone and she makes it some guy she's fucking so the whole situation is even more twisted. And even this episode. Twice Romero asked her point blank if Norman is dangerous. The moment Norman confronted her about Emma's mother, it's clear she put the pieces together and realized Norman might have done something to the woman and instead she insisted, "no, he's a good kid, he's not dangerous." Again until she was locked in room afraid he'd shoot her ass. 

 

Again, I don't dislike Norma and I'm not putting Norman's actions entirely on her. However, it's like they say, life is about choices and the path we take always has these points where you can say, "if I had made this decision" or "that choice", etc. Yes, Norman may very well have still ended up the bat-shit crazy serial killing monster he is now but if Norma, knowing something was wrong very early on and gotten him help then you could say, "listen, she did the best she could. She tried to help him and sometimes there is no way to help people." But ymmv, in my opinion, Norma DID NOT do the best she could. She lied, covered, coddled, not to mention fostered a creepy, co-dependent relationship with him and now it's all too late and it's very sad, which is what makes this show fucking awesome.

 

And kudos to Freddie and Vera but unpopular opinion perhaps, I'm not giving Norma a pass like others. Yes she's quirky and cooky and funny but as I've said, I do remember the Season 1 Norma that I do think was domineering and way too attached to her son and let's not mention her guilt trips at him both when Keith almost raped her and she later got arrested because Norman dared to be off having a life at those times. As crazy ass Norman said this episode, I do believe Norma loves Norman and probably in her mind did the best she could and her actions make sense when we got more insight into her crazy and fucked up past. But the reality is, at many points with Norman, Norma had a choice and she chose the wrong one. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[OhioMom]

With all the uncomfortable scenes in this episode, the one where Norma was practically making out with Norman to keep him from killing her made me the most uncomfortable. They're both so damaged, and the inappropriate closeness of their relationship is just one more element that has contributed to Norman's psychosis. There's never been enough of a boundary between them, and now the line has blurred almost completely.

Yes, that was distasteful. Norman seemed to think so, too.

[Chaos Theory]

Oh i am hardly giving Norma a pass and I agree with most if not everything you said @truthaboutluv. The tragedy of it all is that most of it could have been prevented if Norma had made different choices but that is what tragedy is and Norma is who she is. Her codependency was never going to let herself send Norman away until it was too late to change anything and because she didn't send him away he is too far gone to get be helped.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[OSM Mom]

This show just keeps getting better! If Freddy and Vera don't get Emmy nods, there is no God. I thought that Norma wasa goner. And Romero is a goner too. So where did Norman put Emma's mothers body? Not in the freezer and not in the pit outside apparently. Just an awesome episode all around.