S04.E01: A Danger To Himself And Others

[Tara Ariano]

In the fourth season premiere, Norma searches for Norman; Dylan awaits news on Emma; and Romero gets a surprising proposition.

[riverheightsnancy]

Freddie was a marvel as Norman/Mother tonight. Did they get any Emmy noms for this show? Wow, I knew Emma's mom was going to be killed by "Mother". 

[Primetimer]

After Norman's psychotic break lands him in a poorly-staffed public facility, both he and Norma begin obsessing on how to keep him out of there again.

Read the story

[Spartan Girl]

That escalated quickly.

I didn't buy Emma's mom's excuse for leaving her sick daughter. If she was so scared of her dad --who hasn't shown any signs of being an abuser throughout the whole as far as I could see -- than why would she leave her daughter with him? She gets no sympathy from me.

The doc's smackdown of Norma was long overdue. She should have gotten Norman help a long ass time ago. And even when she seems to be taking it seriously, she still engages in pseudo incest behavior with him. Also trying to flirt with the gay doctor and proposing to Romero only to get insurance? New low, even for her.

I'm calling it now: Norma is a goner by season end.

[thuganomics85]

Bates Motel is back, folks!  It's about time for my yearly dose of the adventures of a budding, future serial killer and his wackadoole mom.  Both who I somehow love, and kind of dread knowing that this isn't going to end well for either of them.

 

Totally knew that Emma's mom was a goner.  I rarely talk out loud when watching a show, but I was pretty much yelling "No, lady!  Don't even think about entering that house!"  Interesting that while this isn't his first kill, I'm pretty sure this is the first time we actually see Norman doing it, unlike when he killed Bradley, and they shot it with "Mother"/Vera Farmiga instead.  But Freddie Highmore brought it in this one.  So creepy at first, and then flat-out scary in that final scene.  I can only imagine what Norman is going to do this season.

 

At least Norma finally gets the wake-up call that Norman needs help.  Too bad her apparent strategies today were an obvious attempt to seduce a doctor (who just happen to be gay) and try to marry Romero for his insurance.  I love that Romero didn't even seem that angry, but more "Oh, whatever, Norma. Just shut up and let me sleep!" about it.  He's just way too use to this.

 

Looks like Emma's new lungs are working for now.  I still wish she and Dylan would just stay in Portland, because as much as I like both of the characters, I feel like their life expectancy will be much shorter the closer they are to Norman and Norma.

 

I'm guessing that Emma's mom claiming her dad had a violent past and everything, means he'll be the main suspect assuming they are going down a missing person story-line or murder if they find the body.  After-all, he is played by Andrew Howard, so he'll always be a bit suspicious.

 

Fun seeing Damon Gupton as the new psychiatrist, but I'm curious about why they got Louis Ferreira for that brief scene as Emma's doctor.  Seems weird to get someone like him for that small part, so I wonder if there will be more that story.

Edited March 9, 2016 by thuganomics85

[placate]

What I took away from tonight:

"LOL, sexy cop I had a relationship with. I really need a husband, will you marry me and let my psycho son go to a nice inpatient place."

[Chaos Theory]

Wow only 5 replies.

I found this episode sad in the way this show has always been sad. It's like watching a Greek Tragedy. Yes it was good to see someone give it to Norma that way but it didn't help at all. All the Doctor did was push every one of Norma's panic buttons. It might have worked better if the Doctor had shown some kindness and compassion even towardsNorma and you know maybe helped find a place for Norman instead of calling her a bad mother. Which she isn't. She is blind and codependent but not a bad mother.

But then the Doctor might be right. The time to save Norman was "before" when she had legal power over him. Now that he is 18 her power is waining both legality and psychologically over Norman. Mother is becoming more of an influence then Norma and despite Norma's flaws that is also a tragedy because Norma does want what is best for her son she is just unable to separate what is best for her and what is best for Norman.

The best tragedies are the ones where the characters don't realize they are in a tragedy until it is too late to get out.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[littlemommy]

I was half sure/mostly afraid that Norma was going to try to break Norman out of the hospital. It's the kind of crazy and impulsive thing that she would do.

[Curious5]

So who did Romero kill?  Was this at the end of last season?

[sugarbaker design]

In the last episode of last season, Romero shot Bob Paris, played by Kevin Rahm.  

[Avaleigh]

I thought the episode was great. I love that this show is finally back. 

 

I knew Emma's mom was dead the moment Norman opened the door in that robe. The hilarious thing about that scene was how Emma's mom wasn't even that thrown by the robe. I'd be thinking 'My daughter has a crush on this guy?'

 

I was surprised that Norma was so harsh with Emma's mother. (Sorry, I'm forgetting the woman's name.) I would have expected her to be a little more sympathetic since she'd just been given a speech on what a crap mother she's been to Norman when it comes to dealing with his psychological issues.

 

I always cringe in secondhand embarrassment when it comes to Norma's scenes with Romero and last night's episode was no exception. She thinks it's a better idea to marry someone than to just get her own insurance. What is wrong with this woman?

 

I agree with Spartan Girl. Norma will die in the last episode of the season.

 

I'm guessing that Emma's mom is going into the freezer. It's still nuts that Norma bought him that thing.  

 

And even when she seems to be taking it seriously, she still engages in pseudo incest behavior with him.

I feel like Norman wants to continue the status quo but Norma seems to want to entangle herself from it a bit. I thought it was very interesting to see her pull away from him in bed once Norman was finally asleep. I don't think she's comfortable with it anymore the way that she once was. I felt like she was trying to placate Norman by doing what they've always done but once Norman was asleep it's like she wanted to free herself without waking him. For me it felt like a telling moment. 

 

I felt it in the kitchen when she was cutting his hair. Norman's talking about how he never wants them to be separated and Norma seems like she knows that it shouldn't just be the two of them forever and ever. 

 

The emphasis that Norman is placing on never wanting to be sent away again--I'm convinced that Norma is going to eventually get to the point where she thinks it's better to have Norman sent away and that's when Norman is going to freak out and kill her (and Romero). 

 

I agree that Emma's dad is going to be suspect #1 in Emma's mom's death/disappearance. 

[peacheslatour]

Freddie was a marvel as Norman/Mother tonight. Did they get any Emmy noms for this show? Wow, I knew Emma's mom was going to be killed by "Mother". 

I knew it as soon as I saw the stuffed bunny.  If you remember the movie, when Marion's sister was in the house looking for "Mother" she saw it in Norman's room.  Nice nod to the movie.  I'm keeping a running list of little tidbits like that.

 

Yep, Norman is totally off the rails now and I agree with Spartan Girl, up-thread, Norma will be kaput by the end of this season.

[ari333]

Good grief has this show been on for FOUR YEARS? Really?  time flies.    wow

[DonitsYum]

Freddie is the best.

WHY did Norma think that locking him up in the bedroom was going to be a good idea? She could have left him a note and a snack, at least!

I loved how Emma's mother was so eager to meet the famous Bates family that was (she thought) so highly regarded and nice and then happened to catch Norma in "whatever, bitch" mode and then murderous MotherNorman right after. Shoulda stayed home lady!

[maczero]

Glad that the show is back.  I love that Norma is full of gumption yet lacks game.  Every time she tries to manipulate, bully or even try to accomplish relatively simple tasks, she's immediately shut down.  Perfect example of this was her blatant flirtation with the gay doctor.  Also her expecting Romero to marry her to get on his insurance plan was classic Norma.  At least, she was kind enough to throw in some obligatory sex to sweeten the deal.

Wow only 5 replies.

I found this episode sad in the way this show has always been sad. It's like watching a Greek Tragedy. Yes it was good to see someone give it to Norma that way but it didn't help at all. All the Doctor did was push every one of Norma's panic buttons. It might have worked better if the Doctor had shown some kindness and compassion even towardsNorma and you know maybe helped find a place for Norman instead of calling her a bad mother. Which she isn't. She is blind and codependent but not a bad mother.

But then the Docyor might be right. The time to save Norman was "before" when she had legal power over him. Now that he is 18 her power is waining both legality and psychologically over Norman. Mother is becoming more of an influence then Norma and despite Norma's flaws that is also a tragedy because Normadies want what is best for her son she is just unable to separate what is best for her and what is best for Norman.

I'd say that Norma is way more than blind.  She has willfully ignored and even covered up Norman's dangerous behaviors.  That puts her in the bad mother category for me.

The hilarious thing about that scene was how Emma's mom wasn't even that thrown by the robe. I'd be thinking 'My daughter has a crush on this guy?

Oh she was definitely thrown by the robe.  She gave him up and down glance followed by a "wtf" look.  

 

I know this is wrong but I thought it was kind of sweet that the "mother" personality was angry enough with Emma's mom to kill her for abandoning Emma.  I thought "she" would only reserve that sort of rage for anyone who was a threat to Norman.   Although it's highly likely that "mother" was only projecting Norman's abandonment issues on Emma's mom.

 

As for Emma's mom leaving because the father was abusive, I'm on the fence.  Like others have said, no mother would leave their child with an abusive parent.  OTOH, the dad did publicly threaten to throw her out of the hospital himself.  So there is that.

 

Also great casting for the mom.  She really does look like Emma.  

[sugarbaker design]

also great casting for the mom.  She really does look like Emma.

 

 

Word.  There was a moment when the character was in the hospital lobby, sitting down on the chair, when she looked exactly like Emma!

 

Edited March 8, 2016 by sugarbaker design

[Avaleigh]

Glad that the show is back.  I love that Norma is full of gumption yet lacks game.  Every time she tries to manipulate, bully or even try to accomplish relatively simple tasks, she's immediately shut down.  Perfect example of this was her blatant flirtation with the gay doctor.  Also her expecting Romero to marry her to get on his insurance plan was classic Norma.  At least, she was kind enough to throw in some obligatory sex to sweeten the deal.

I'd say that Norma is way more than blind.  She has willfully ignored and even covered up Norman's dangerous behaviors.  That puts her in the bad mother category for me.

Oh she was definitely thrown by the robe.  She gave him up and down glance followed by a "wtf" look.  

 

I know this is wrong but I thought it was kind of sweet that the "mother" personality was angry enough with Emma's mom to kill her for abandoning Emma.  I thought "she" would only reserve that sort of rage for anyone who was a threat to Norman.   Although it's highly likely that "mother" was only projecting Norman's abandonment issues on Emma's mom.

 

As for Emma's mom leaving because the father was abusive, I'm on the fence.  Like others have said, no mother would leave their child with an abusive parent.  OTOH, the dad did publicly threaten to throw her out of the hospital himself.  So there is that.

 

Also great casting for the mom.  She really does look like Emma.  

Regarding the bit in bold first--Oh, I noticed that look but she didn't seem nearly alarmed enough to me. To me it was like she went 'Hmm, that's weird...okay, moving on.' Plus, based on what Norma said, I can't imagine why she'd want to go in the house. It's not that she should have expected Norman to be a psychopath because he's running around in his mother's robe. It's more like why would she want to risk running into Norma based on the conversation they just had where Norma is telling her to stay away from her kid. I would have been super uncomfortable and certainly wouldn't have tried to have a private visit with some weird kid.

 

I have to agree about Norma not being a good mother. She had so many chances and at the time she seemed more concerned with what she might be losing over what was best for Norman at the time. Whether it was discouraging relationships, pulling him out of school, covering for him when he's done something hugely wrong, not getting him a doctor, being warned about Norman, hearing from multiple people that Norman is not right. She's still sticking her head in the sand.  

 

Norma's behavior with Emma's mom was puzzling to me. She seemed flattered when Emma's mom was shocked about how nice she was and then proceeded to be as rude as possible without seeming like she cared at all where this woman was coming from. I can understand Emma and Emma's dad treating the woman that way but it felt a little harsh coming from Norma when she knows what it's like to be misunderstood and rejected. 

[tennisgurl]

My favorite serial killer origin story has returned! Its been way too long. 

 

Norma, you are not long for this world. You should have gotten Norman help a LONG time ago. That therapist was harsh, but she certainly wasn't wrong. Norman has been off for years, and Norma just let it go, brushing off all concerns, and turning a blind eye to Normand erratic, sometimes violent behavior. And locking him in a room, alone? Such a terrible idea, on so many levels. 

 

Freddie is amazing, and its a huge shame that he will never get any award nominations for his performance. The changes from Norman to Mother are eerie as all get out. 

 

Emma and Dylan are cute, but I do not see a happy ending for them any time soon, unless they get the hell out of dodge ASAP. 

[peacheslatour]

 

Oh, I noticed that look but she didn't seem nearly alarmed enough to me. To me it was like she went 'Hmm, that's weird...okay, moving on.'

Not really.  In this day and age we know about gender fluidity.  For all she knew Norman was a Hugh Hefner devotee.  I mean look at that house- it just screams "normalcy", doesn't it?  :)

Edited March 8, 2016 by peacheslatour

[FurryFury]

Wow, that was an explosive finale. Norman is losing it way faster than I've expected. I can't imagine what's Norma going to do when/if she finds a corpse in the house. If it wasn't a dream scenario, of course. That said, Emma's mom was weird. She seemed to be either kinda-crazy or lying or maybe Emma's dad is way darker than we thought. (Is there anybody without a dark secret on the show, besides Emma herself?)

 

I laughed way too loud when Norma proposed to Romero. That's so Norma! 

 

I hope Emma's mom presence will mean for for Emma to do, because I miss her in action. 

Edited March 8, 2016 by FurryFury

[sugarbaker design]

I can't imagine what's Norma going to do when/if she finds a corpse in the house.

 

 

I don't think she'll find it till the end of the season.

[FurryFury]

Yeah, it makes sense. By the way, unlike most posters, I don't want or expect for Norma to bite it this season. She's just too magnetic for the show be as effective without her. I mean, we'd get Vera Farmiga anyway, but it's just not the same.

[Fable]

No matter how dark this show gets, it never fails to inject some hilarous moments, like Norma flirting with the gay doctor, just showing up at Romero's and expecting him to fix everything, and even going so far as to later propose marriage.  Hah!  Only Norma...never change.  I do wonder if the money we saw Romero hiding under the floor boards will come into play in trying to put Norman into psychiatric care. 

 

Speaking of dark, wow, Norman strikes again.  I was fully expecting him to go full-on mother and kill Emma's mother at some point, but I expected her to last more than episode.  I was laughing to myself when Norman was sitting in Norma's robe acting all Norma-like and chatting with Emma's mom until things went south, then I gasped.

[Nutjob]

 

I laughed way too loud when Norma proposed to Romero. That's so Norma!

Same here, and then I said out loud, to no one, "Oh, GOD, Norma!" Because it really was just so HER.

 

I got why Norma turned insta-bitch to Emma's mom. Emma is a good girl, abandoned by her mother, who is now in front of Norma and trying to drag her in the middle of their non-relationship to help her fix it. The "real" Norman is a good boy with a much more challenging issue, and Norma would have never abandoned him no matter what. She's not a good mother, but I do think Norma has a right to feel a little superior right there. At least she tries in her own twisted way.

[peacheslatour]

 

I got why Norma turned insta-bitch to Emma's mom. Emma is a good girl, abandoned by her mother, who is now in front of Norma and trying to drag her in the middle of their non-relationship to help her fix it. The "real" Norman is a good boy with a much more challenging issue, and Norma would have never abandoned him no matter what. She's not a good mother, but I do think Norma has a right to feel a little superior right there. At least she tries in her own twisted way.

You have smitten the nail upon it's crux.  Norma is in the middle of the hell that her life has become, and here comes this bitch who abandoned her CHILD because she was sick.  To Norma that's such low down, no good, trifling behavior that she was not about to lift one finger to help this lady weasel her way back into Emma's good graces.  With her puling excuses and self pity, she was lucky Norma didn't rip her face off.  But, ain't nobody got time for that.

[ari333]

How do we know that maybe the husband was abusive to the wife but not to Emma? Maybe Emma had a better life with the dad for whatever financial reasons, so mom bowed out? IDK.

 

Freddie and Vera are crushing it. And sheriff dude is hot. 

Edited March 8, 2016 by ari333

[Avaleigh]

Yeah, it makes sense. By the way, unlike most posters, I don't want or expect for Norma to bite it this season. She's just too magnetic for the show be as effective without her. I mean, we'd get Vera Farmiga anyway, but it's just not the same.

Not only will Norman's visions of her still be around but I think it's possible that we could even get flashbacks depending on how it happens exactly. I definitely think next season is going to be about Norman trying (and failing) to live without Norma. 

 

You have smitten the nail upon it's crux.  Norma is in the middle of the hell that her life has become, and here comes this bitch who abandoned her CHILD because she was sick.  To Norma that's such low down, no good, trifling behavior that she was not about to lift one finger to help this lady weasel her way back into Emma's good graces.  With her puling excuses and self pity, she was lucky Norma didn't rip her face off.  But, ain't nobody got time for that.

I can see it being this it just seemed to me that it felt more about Norma not wanting to be involved because she has her own issues and doesn't need another thing to deal with. I didn't get the impression that it was about caring about what happened to Emma or wanting to prevent Emma any pain. I feel like if that had been the case then she would have told her to leave Emma alone. Instead it was more like 'Don't drag me into your shit, I have enough problems. If you want to get that letter to Emma find another way, I don't care.' That's how it came across to me. I didn't get the impression that she thinks she's doing anything to protect Emma. 

 

Norma is really the last person who should be ripping anybody's face off for being full of self pity when it comes to not being a good parent. The way she treated Dylan, there are more than enough reasons for her to get blasted with a serious reading if nothing else. 

[FurryFury]

Not only will Norman's visions of her still be around but I think it's possible that we could even get flashbacks depending on how it happens exactly. I definitely think next season is going to be about Norman trying (and failing) to live without Norma.

 

But it's just not as interesting. Norma has also relationships with Dylan, Romero, even Emma. I mean, yeah, Norman's a very nuanced and fascinating, but he's obviously the villain now. (BTW I liked how the AVClub review of this episode has pointed this out, even if I kinda disagree with their grade). Turning Norma into a hallucination would deprive the show of its most enthralling and conflicted character. And really, there are other ways to show us Norman without Norma. Like in a hospital, or her moving away for a few episodes, or even in the last episode(s). A whole season is just too long. I know I'll be bored. Maybe if they'll move the focus to Dylan and Emma and, say, Romero trying to prove Norman has killed her? But it still wouldn't be as good for me.

Edited March 8, 2016 by FurryFury

[MaggieG]

No matter how dark this show gets, it never fails to inject some hilarous moments, like Norma flirting with the gay doctor, just showing up at Romero's and expecting him to fix everything, and even going so far as to later propose marriage. Hah! Only Norma...never change. I do wonder if the money we saw Romero hiding under the floor boards will come into play in trying to put Norman into psychiatric care.

This! "You have insurance so let's get married." She is the best thing in this show. Plus Romero is awesome and I love how he deals with her

Edited March 8, 2016 by MaggieG

[Glade]

I couldn't stand Emma's mother with her whole "Your illness was just too much for me to deal with, but now that you have a lung transplant and can be healthy again, I'm prepared to grace you with my presence/my excuses."  Fuck you!  And those horrible throw rugs you were wearing!  I was glad to see Norma slam the door in her face, and even what Norman/Mother said to her was good, before things escalated in that fucking insane turnaround.  Is 'mother' going to be able to clean up before Norman wakes or Norma arrives home? Poor Emma, I was hoping she would have enough self-esteem to stand up to her mother, but it looks like we may be too late.

 

Sigh, watching Norma going around, frustrated at being unable to successfully throw herself at any man who would help her jump the waitlist/break the rules and then being told off by them/fellow women who want none of her BS was certainly a return to Bates Motel.  Since she slept with her own therapist, why not sleep with her son's prospective doctors as well?  And it doesn't even look like she made any appointment!  And what a marriage proposal!  I thought she was just going to ask him for some illegal way to make a lot of money quickly.

 

Norma's behavior is definitely negligent.  But I think the most important part is that she is still not willing to open up about the significant traumas behind his condition.  She doesn't mention "Well, after he was kidnapped, beaten up, locked in a cellar for several days and left for dead by a drug cartel, he did seem to be much worse off...."  That, apparently is legally documented and not a huge secret.  She also doesn't say "when my boyfriend flipped out and tried to kill all of us after we find out about his human trafficking business, that's when I realized the problem wasn't going away."  Or, finally, "Norman survived a childhood of being brutally beaten by his father..."  Norman's condition is heavily informed by the traumas he lived through, these aren't just random blackouts happening for no reason, and they didn't get worse all on their own.

 

That was a disturbingly creepy ward that Norman was sectioned in.  But surely there is a middle ground between that and Pine View. 

Edited March 8, 2016 by Glade

[peacheslatour]

 

Norma is really the last person who should be ripping anybody's face off for being full of self pity when it comes to not being a good parent. The way she treated Dylan, there are more than enough reasons for her to get blasted with a serious reading if nothing else.

Fair point.  But, I'm looking at it from Norma's POV.  She had just spent 48 hours of desperately clawing at the air trying to get help for her sick child and to have this stranger come at her, wanting her help...well, it was just too much.. Mama's tired.

[designing1]

Freddie and Vera are crushing it. And sheriff dude is hot. 

 

How has this show only been nominated for one measly Emmy? Freddie and Vera have been doing great work from the beginning, and just get stronger as things get more out of control. And Nestor Carbonell is indeed blessed with what is apparently eternal hotness. I first remember seeing him 20 years ago in Suddenly Susan (that Brooke Shields show) and he is seriously aging like fine wine.

 

I'm so glad this show is back, and even gladder that A&E doesn't make me subscribe to some overblown cable package, but rather, let's me watch for free on their website the day after airing.

[Chaos Theory]

That was a disturbingly creepy ward that Norman was sectioned in.  But surely there is a middle ground between that and Pine View.

 

 

Well there is  (was) Pretty Little Liars Radley Sanitarium.  The patients escaped out of there every week.  And  Norman would fit right in in Rosewood.   Honestly I think he'd be the least creepy dude in that town.    But they turned the hospital into a creepy hotel.......hey he'd fit right in there too.  

Edited March 8, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Avaleigh]

I don't get the lack of Emmy love either when it comes to this show. It makes no sense especially with Vera. Freddie has had some accent issues over the course of the show but I can't find any criticism for Vera. 

[FurryFury]

There are lots of shows Emmies are ignoring. Bates Motel is in a good company.

 

 

Well there is  (was) Pretty Little Liars Radley Sanitarium.  The patients escaped out of there every week.  And  Norman would fit right in in Rosewood.   Honestly I think he'd be the least creepy dude in that town.    But they turned the hospital into a creepy hotel.......hey he'd fit right in there too.  

Speaking of terrible teen shows, it reminded me of Teen Wolf's Eichen House. That said, public hospitals in my country often look even worse.

[Peanut6711]

Well there is  (was) Pretty Little Liars Radley Sanitarium.  The patients escaped out of there every week.  And  Norman would fit right in in Rosewood.   Honestly I think he'd be the least creepy dude in that town.    But they turned the hospital into a creepy hotel.......hey he'd fit right in there too.  

Norman could be the new A! lol

[tennisgurl]

I would watch the crap out of a Pretty Little Liars/Bates Motel spin off. 

[ganesh]

Oh, a nice subtle start to the season. 

I've said before that the show needs to end with Norma getting killed and pan up to her in the window to end the show. Norma is crazy and destructive. Norman without Norma is the movie. The show is just so good with her running around and unraveling.

 

*shrug* I'll have sex with you too; I mean, nbd. I didn't see her proposing. So Norma.

 

I didn't think Norman was going to kill Emma's mother. I was surprised. That was a creepy scene. When he opened the door, I was like, "uh oh," no way.  

The doctor issuing ultimatums to Norma was the totally, exact wrong way to approach her and dealing with Norman. I liked the "How much is often?" "More than ONCE A YEAR?!" "Uh, well, I guess?"

[oakLeaf]

I really enjoyed the way Freddie did Vera's mannerisms - the way he walked when he got up from the vanity, the way he did the cocked hip and put his hand in his robe pocket, the way he straightened the robe when he sat, the way he poured tea, etc.

[LonelyTown]

Good premiere. The acting is amazing. Freddie and Vera are amazing. Dylan is still cute. I too love the way Norman picked up on and mimicked Norma's mannerisms.

My memory is foggy. Norman doesn't know about Dylan and Emma, right? I basically fear for everyone in his life right now

[sadie]

Here's my question: is Norma supposed to be a sympathetic character? While Vera acts the hell out of this role, I dislike Norma and sympathize with Norman. Do I have it backwards. He's mentally ill and she has done nothing to help,out of her own selfishness (disguised as love for Norman). Am I just reading it wrong??

[Fable]

Here's my question: is Norma supposed to be a sympathetic character? While Vera acts the hell out of this role, I dislike Norma and sympathize with Norman. Do I have it backwards. He's mentally ill and she has done nothing to help,out of her own selfishness (disguised as love for Norman). Am I just reading it wrong??

 

While I don't fully agree, I wouldn't say you're reading it wrong.  Every viewer sees things through their own filter.  I actually sympathize with both of them.  I think Norma loves Norman, but she is emotionally damaged herself and this affects her decisions regarding Norman (among other things).

[OSM Mom]

Man what a way to start the season! Everybody knocked it out of the park. And Norman has Normas mannerisms down. When he was worried about covering up his chest with the robe, and keeping it closed when he was sitting down. Just brilliant. Yeah, I knew the shit was going to hit the fan when Norma locked that door. Bad move Norma. Bad move.

[ganesh]

No, Norma is the central tragic figure of the story. That's why she can't die until the show ends. It's her own problems ultimately lead to her to making Norman go psycho. 

 

I mean, all she had to do was bring him to the doctor. Get treatment/medication. She's had numerous times to do it and keeps making the wrong choice. 

 

That's what's great about the show. "Oh an origin story about Norman Bates going psycho." It's not exactly that. 

[maczero]

Here's my question: is Norma supposed to be a sympathetic character? While Vera acts the hell out of this role, I dislike Norma and sympathize with Norman. Do I have it backwards. He's mentally ill and she has done nothing to help,out of her own selfishness (disguised as love for Norman). Am I just reading it wrong??

I'd say it's up to the individual viewer on whether or not they feel any sympathy for Norma.  Personally, I have a lot sympathy for Norma.  Her life has been beyond tragic.  She grew up with an abusive father.  She was sexually abused by her brother and eventually gets pregnant by him.  She's later abused by Norman's father.  She then has to cover up her son's murder of his father.  Since moving to White Pine Bay, she's been raped, nearly killed several times, had her son kidnapped, and is currently dealing with Norman's growing instability.  I'm amazed she hasn't put a gun in her mouth a long time ago.

Edited March 9, 2016 by maczero

[Spartan Girl]

I'd say it's up to the individual viewer on whether or not they feel any sympathy for Norma.  Personally, I have a lot sympathy for Norma.  Her life has been beyond tragic.  She grew up with an abusive father.  She was sexually abused by her brother and eventually gets pregnant by him.  She's later abused by Norman's father.  She then has to cover up her son's murder of his father.  Since moving to White Pine Bay, she's been raped, nearly killed several times, had her son kidnapped, and is currently dealing with Norman's growing instability.  I'm amazed she hasn't put a gun in her mouth a long time ago.

 

Not disagreeing you, but I sympathize more with Norman than Norma.  She was so let down by the men in her life that she basically groomed Norman to be her defacto husband, smothering him and keeping him close.  Battered women have the tendency to unwittingly let the child be the parent instead of the other way around; she should have left Norman's dad a long time ago for Norman's sake, but by sticking around she warped Norman's mind further.  She should have gotten Norman to a doctor way back when he killed the father: the law would have probably shown him some leniency given the fact that Norman's dad was an abuser and he killed him in self-defense.  But she covered it up, and later covered up the murder of her own rapist, and that didn't do anything to help Norman's state of mind, let alone view of right and wrong.  

 

Hell, when Norman found out that he killed Ms Watson, he was so horrified that he wanted to kill himself, and as horrible as it is to say, he might have been better off.  But Norma stopped him (by kissing him on the mouth) no less and told him that she couldn't live without him.  And then she went on enabling him and keeping him close and even started sleeping in the same bed as him, and things just got worse from there.  She loves Norman, but it's a selfish kind of love.

 

Yes, maybe Norma didn't mean to go this far, but it was her choices that led to this point.  

[peacheslatour]

I think Norma sees or rather saw Norman as her redemption.  She abandoned Dylan because he was the product of rape/incest and she wasn't old enough to deal with it.  When Norman came she saw in him a second chance for a new, normal life.  But then his father turned out to be just as big of an abusive asshole as every other man she'd ever known, she began to idealize Norman, an innocent child who wasn't a man.  Who never would be a man if she had anything to say about it.  She'll cling to this "child" any way she can, even if it means warping him in unimaginable ways.  Now here's the product of this process and Norma is reaping what she sowed.  Sucks to be her, but not for much longer, I guess.

[ganesh]

What I'm hoping is that Norma realizes it too late. I don't want her to not know she's going to be killed. I want the show to end with her realizing she had a hand in creating Norman and knows he's going to kill her. And it seems like we got some of that here. 

[rue721]

I don't blame Norma for Norman's illness. Even if she'd taken him to a doctor earlier -- then what? We saw in this episode exactly what doctors can do for Norman:  nothing. Not even diagnose him, apparently.

 

I think Norman probably inherited whatever illness Norma's mother had, and Norma understood from growing up with her zoned-out, helpless, and soon-dead mother that there's really nothing to be done but to just keep trying to get through each day.

 

Of course Norman also has traumas and problems, like anybody. But that's not the crux of the issue. The crux of the issue is that there's clearly something neurologically wrong with him, causing him to have hallucinations, delusions, and seizures/blackouts. But judging by no hospital being able to find anything on any of the scans/tests they've run or during the hours he's been under observation, whatever is wrong with him is not something that medicine is yet equipped to deal with or even conclusively diagnose.

 

Emma is getting better because they cut her diseased lungs out of her and put another person's healthy lungs in her. She was in an ultra-modern hospital undergoing a "textbook" surgery that was over in a morning. Her CF was horrible, but also straightforward and medically comprehensible. Meanwhile, Norman was in a hospital not very different from Bedlam in the 19th century, tied down to a bed with straps, and he still has no diagnosis or treatment plan.

 

I thought it was ludicrous (but distressingly realistic) when Norma was sent off by the hospital social worker with a scolding and a threat to get Norman a treatment plan within a matter of hours -- at the same time as the social worker told Norma that she had no rights any longer because Norman's not a minor, and that it's too late for him, and that the county hospital has no plan or theory for helping him, either, and is basically just a place for him to be temporarily imprisoned. The truth is that, ultimately, a doctor can't just rip out Norman's brain and replace it with a healthy one, so he's doomed in a way that Emma wasn't/isn't.

 

This episode showed how dogged Norma is, but also how powerless she is -- that was the point of contrasting her with Emma's mother, I think, who wasn't dogged *at all* but whose daughter is still "cured." It's like the universe is conspiring against Norma to teach her the lesson over and over and over that life just isn't fair.

 

I don't know how she can go on. If I didn't already know better from the movie, I would suspect that she's heading down the path of putting Norman out of his misery in a murder/suicide.

[BatmanBeatles]

 

I do wonder if the money we saw Romero hiding under the floor boards will come into play in trying to put Norman into psychiatric care.

I hadn't thought of that. You know, even if Norma and Romano get married, his insurance might not be enough to cover such a high end institution.