The Real O'Neals - General Discussion

[truthaboutluv]

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For the record,  I don't think Kenny is too effeminate.

Neither do I. 

[iMonrey]

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Anyhoo, I am totally loving this show and am really liking how ABC is curating its comedy line-up to be show all different types of families (ethnicity/religion etc.) but funnily enough so many of the themes in the various shows episodes could literally be swapped out because they are universal.

And that right there . . . I can't decide if that's a good thing or a problem. On the one hand I can see the value of these shows presenting all walks of life as having universal problems anyone can relate to. It's a sort of feel good "See we're all the same!" kind of message.

On the other hand, it sometimes feels like the scripts could have been recycled from an old episode of The Brady Bunch. Everything feels very homogenized and generic like the scripts are run through a focus group and market-researched to make sure they're mainstream enough.

[SmithW6079]

On 5/11/2016 at 6:03 AM, starri said:

I have a college friend who IS a Unitarian minister, and I honestly found that part a little offense.  How would Eileen have handled a guitar Mass?

 

 

Are you as offended when the show mocks Catholics? Or is that OK? Other than "cool" Jesus, I think the show is taking the position that all religions are worthy of being mocked.

Unitarianism means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. From the Wikipedia entry: 

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The beliefs of individual Unitarian Universalists range widely, including atheism, agnosticism, pantheism, deism, Judaism, Islam, Christianity, neopaganism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism, Humanism, and many more.

 

 

I didn't care for Pat's storyline. The show previously has shown that the kids have a good relationship with him and that he doesn't need to "buy" their love and attention. I thought the cop car joy ride was stupid. All I could think about is the disciplinary hearing Pat's going to face for allowing his children to drive a city vehicle and destroying the tires.

Mesh is awful for men, even when you've got the build for it, which Kenny does not. I honestly thought the shirt he was wearing at the end was a woman's blouse.

I totally bought Eileen's being annoyed at the "other mom." She was one of those hippy-dippy granolas who make me roll my eyes. 

And damnit! can't we get an explanation as to why Pat's brother's ex-wife is more welcome in their house than Pat's brother?

Edited May 12, 2016 by SmithW6079

[starri]

1 minute ago, SmithW6079 said:

Are you as offended when the show mocks Catholics? Or is that OK? Other than "cool" Jesus, I think the show is taking the position that all religions are worthy of being mocked.

There's a lot of balance to the presentation of Catholicism:  the only true intolerance we've seen with that came from the grandmother.  There was far less of it in the portrayal of UU as being the official religion of hackysack and patchouli.

We've seen that the Catholic Church still has a lot of meaning in the lives of many of the characters.  It certainly does to Kenny.  But we got one "cool mom" and a bunch of touchy-feely hippie cliches on the other hand.

[possibilities]

I'm a middle aged woman and I have never even considered wearing mesh. I like Kenny, but I don't identify with him at all.

I think it's amazing how things have changed in a relatively short amount of time. Does anyone remember a TV show called The Book of Daniel, where Jesus started appearing to the main character? It was considered so scandalous that they were unable to get sponsors and the show was canceled very quickly. I believe that character was straight, and religious. I can't even remember why it was considered blasphemous. I watched, and it seemed pretty tame, to me. Now we have Jesus appearing to Kenny and ratings are good, no hint of scandal that I've heard. Even if Kenny's just imagining Jesus, the advice he's imagining is in line with the way the Catholics around him are behaving-- not just his family, but also his Catholic school administration.

I think the Unitarians have enough sense of humor (at least the ones I've met-- which are many) to take a little ribbing. They were the only place that LGBT people could have meetings or social events outside of bars back in the 1970s, and so I have appreciation for their open-mindedness. The local UU here has been a hub of terrific anti-racist activism as well. But if you can't laugh at yourself, you wind up only laughing at other people, and that's never a good plan.

[starri]

Renewed.

[Jaded]

I loved The Book of Daniel and was bummed when it was cancelled.

[Tiger]

My issues with Kenny's characterization in some episodes aside, I'm extremely happy that ABC has renewed the show.

Now hopefully it gets a full season and either the Tue or Wed 930 slot so it can push some boundaries like "black-ish" has done.

[Delphi]

Yassssss!!!

[Perfect Xero]

Kenny works for me because he comes off as very authentic, he might hit some stereotype boxes but he does so in a way that seems real.

Kenny is also the most three dimensional of the kid characters. Jimmy's dumbness is much more sitcomy and over-the-top, as is Shannon's ... Shannon-ness.

[iMonrey]

Well I'm glad it got renewed. Hopefully it will be able to fine-tune and find itself a bit more next season. I don't feel like they have properly utilized Shannon with the one exception of the episode where she was supposed to go through confirmation. 

[futurechemist]

Shannon reminds me of a live-action version of Louise from Bob's Burgers.

Kenny is kind of a geek/nerd, so even if he was straight he wouldn't be a macho dude.  I don't think he's a walking stereotype since Noah Galvin is doing a good job at making Kenny relatable.  The other theater guy though does seem like a walking stereotype, kind of what the Middle did with Brad.

Oh, and people using terms like "normal guy" kind of makes me uncomfortable, since it seems to imply that effeminate guys are abnormal.

[formerlyfreedom]

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using terms like "normal guy" kind of makes me uncomfortable, since it seems to imply that effeminate guys are abnormal.

This is an excellent point - let's be mindful of phrasing in here, please. Thank you!

[Tiger]

On 5/15/2016 at 10:30 PM, saoirse said:

This is an excellent point - let's be mindful of phrasing in here, please. Thank you!

Poor choice of words on my part.  

But I stand by my earlier assertion that Galvin as an actor and the writing overall is better when Kenny is less effeminate.

[Tiger]

Unless something changes in the next 12 hours, ABC must really believe in the show because it's set to air this summer Wed at 930 between ModFam and Blackish, and then in the fall Tue at 930 between Middle and Shield.  

[SmithW6079]

On 5/12/2016 at 6:07 PM, starri said:

There's a lot of balance to the presentation of Catholicism:  the only true intolerance we've seen with that came from the grandmother.  There was far less of it in the portrayal of UU as being the official religion of hackysack and patchouli.

We've seen that the Catholic Church still has a lot of meaning in the lives of many of the characters.  It certainly does to Kenny.  But we got one "cool mom" and a bunch of touchy-feely hippie cliches on the other hand.

 

So you're offended that one brief scene of another church doesn't have the same nuanced characterization that has been developed for Catholicism over the entire series? 

[Bobbin]

It has been officially renewed for a 2nd season. I'm pleased to have been wrong in my earlier prediction. 

[zxy556575]

"Looks like he was murdered. To death. Bom bom."

I enjoyed the focus on Pat and Eileen apart from the kids. Also the genetic similarities between Pat and Jimmy. including both considering putting frozen chicken in their unders.

It was realistic that Gloria would skitter away from Pat after their disaster of a date. Eileen's interactions with Vice Principal Murray were not true to life, but he's a bit of a squirrel and their scenes made me laugh so all is forgiven. He and Jodi are both great secondary characters.

I can't believe this little show has become one of my favorite 22 minutes of the week.

Edited May 18, 2016 by lordonia

[possibilities]

This episode was fun. I like the general tone of the family getting along, even if they're a little off-kilter. I also really like the attempt at portraying an amicable but not bump-free divorce. I think Eileen and Pat are my favorite former-couple relationship on TV right now. It's awkward but not horrible. Tough balance to strike, in life as well as in TV.

[truthaboutluv]

I think it's interesting that Jimmy struggles the most with Pat and Eileen moving on but I guess maybe it makes sense with him being the oldest. He's had a longer time of them being together, including the years before they had Kenny and then Shannon. Granted I don't think he's that much older than Kenny so I doubt he remembers it. I just think it's interesting that he's being the most, "will we have to split holidays, she can't have Christmas, etc." 

[starri]

I've gotten more laughs out of boxed Wisconsin Rose than I should have.  And Pat's "mouse-sized" drink.  I wouldn't have expected this show to have so many effective site gags.

If you told me Jay R Ferguson and Matthew Shively were actually father and son, I would totally believe it.  I kind of saw it before, but the minute Jimmy parted his hair and put on Pat's sunglasses, it became uncanny.

I haven't liked a traditional sitcom this much in a long time.  I'm so glad we're getting more.

[iMonrey]

Do they really give you free food if you're a cop? I can see maybe a free donut or a free coffee at the donut shop, but an entire meal? And I'm assuming that was supposed to be a Denny's. 

[SmithW6079]

6 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I think it's interesting that Jimmy struggles the most with Pat and Eileen moving on but I guess maybe it makes sense with him being the oldest. He's had a longer time of them being together, including the years before they had Kenny and then Shannon. Granted I don't think he's that much older than Kenny so I doubt he remembers it. I just think it's interesting that he's being the most, "will we have to split holidays, she can't have Christmas, etc." 

 

I don't think it's necessarily that he's had more time with them, but I totally buy Jimmy being the most sensitive of all the kids, not wanting the family to change. Despite the stereotype that homosexuals are "emotionally delicate" (i.e., "drama queens"), Kenny is a strong person underneath, and Shannon has already shown she can be hard-hearted and practical when she needs to be. Jimmy is just a lovable lunk with a heart of gold. 

I hated the scene of Eileen and the vice principal in his office. I don't want Eileen and Pat to break up either, Jimmy! 

Pat's comment to Gloria about how his kids' criminal tendencies are small -- "My kids are weird" -- was hilarious, as was the whole scene in the minivan as they're driving back to the house. I could have done without Pat's fear of Eileen finding Gloria there, though.

I think I know why I always have a moment of confusion when they mention something contemporary on this show. "Fresh Off the Boat" immediately precedes this show, and that takes place in the 1990s. Dan Savage is 51 and came of age in the 1980s. If it's based on his life, shouldn't it have been set in the 1980s? There are just some things Kenny is naive about that I think an Internet-savvy kid of today would know about. Hell, when I was coming of age as a young homosexual in the 1970/80s, I knew all about gay magazines -- the newsstand at the mall sold them. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by SmithW6079

[SanDiegoInExile]

13 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

.....moment of confusion when they mention something contemporary on this show. "Fresh Off the Boat" immediately precedes this show, and that takes place in the 1990s. Dan Savage is 51 and came of age in the 1980s. If it's based on his life, shouldn't it have been set in the 1980s? There are just some things Kenny is naive about that I think an Internet-savvy kid of today would know about. Hell, when I was coming of age as a young homosexual in the 1970/80s, I knew all about gay magazines -- the newsstand at the mall sold them. 

ABC already had a 80s show -- The Goldbergs (which I don't watch, but isnt it a plethora of 80s kitsch?). I think that was one rationale for making this one contemporary.  I agree it smacks of an 80s vibe, especially if they truly live in outer suburban Chicago (don't Chicago cops actually HAVE to live in the city). Heck, one trip to a Cubs game and you are basically in the Gayborhood.  Logo has been around for a decade-plus and MTV has featured gay folk for the entire time all three kids have been alive.  The two non-gay kids possess the "meh, no big deal" behavior that is widely prevalent amongst their peers. The set design also screams 1980s.

Edited May 19, 2016 by SanDiegoInExile

[Tiger]

Great season finale, except for the uncomfortable-to-watch Eileen & Principal scenes.   Thank God that is over.

Shivley & Galvin continue to be gold together.  I hope we continue to get Jimmy & Kenny stories next season.    

i also really liked the way Galvin played the aftermath of his first gay kiss and it being so nothing special.   There was really nuanced acting in that scene.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Tiger

[zxy556575]

Yay prom! At least Pat got some chocolate fountain action. I was kind of expecting Eileen and Pat to have one nostalgic dance but was glad the show didn't go there.

I love VP Murray and Eileen's irresistible-despite-her-better-judgment attraction to him. I thought I should check out the actor Matt Oberg's other work but yikes. Heart of Dixie is not doable for me.

Love this show and am looking forward to the new season!

Edited May 25, 2016 by lordonia

[starri]

"No wonder the O'Neals only date each other."

So, we get a theremin, Abba, Not-Gay Stuart's coming out, Kenny's acknowledgement that he sometimes hallucinates, and the entire family doing the Tootsee Roll.

Although it was somewhat depressing to learn that Pat and Eileen and I are all about the same age.  Some of my friends actually have kids who are teenagers, which is something I try not to think too hard about.

Edited May 25, 2016 by starri

[morgan]

I thought he had said 1984 at first which is what I expected then realized he said '94 and I was surprised until I looked up the actor's age and it wasn't far off.  I'm an '85 high school grad and my kids are younger (eldest in 8th) but I suppose marrying young made sense for them.

I am growing to really enjoy this show and love that it goes in unexpected places.  I would have expected the parents to do one nostalgic dance, love that the Eileen and VP thing didn't last long and love love love that they all seem to actually talk about things, like when she got caught.  It's nice that they all seem to genuinely care about each other and aren't trying to drag each other down, something so many sitcoms resort to.  But it's also not cloying.  

[Mrs OldManBalls]

Loved the brothers Prom pic together! (I'm going to fanwank that they were each given a copy and that it's hanging up in their homes) 

[jcin617]

Kenny and Jimmy's prom pic was awesome, especially as they went into that pose so effortlessly.  Ha!

Edited May 25, 2016 by jcin617

[Snow Apple]

7 hours ago, starri said:

"No wonder the O'Neals only date each other."

It's hilarious how the entire school just accept what comes their way. It's just such an easy and comforting show to watch.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Snow Apple

[iMonrey]

I really felt this was the strongest episode of the season. Everyone got a good story arc and was at their best. Loved Kenny and Jimmy being elected "non gender specific monarchs." Loved "fatty Patty's" reaction to finally getting to see a mirror ball. "Yes, it's a ball covered in mirrors. We live in magical times." Even Shannon finally got to do something more than just quip. Kenny's dream sequences remain the highlight for me - the Abba dance was perfect. And the admission "sometimes I hallucinate." 

My one quibble would be they already did the "nerd plays the theremin" joke on Big Bang Theory years ago. I'll just fanwank that's where VP Murray got the idea from. Because playing "Come on Eilleen" on it was pretty inspired.

[MaryMitch]

I loved Eileen and Kenny dancing at the very end. They really looked like they were having a blast!

[Bobbin]

Truth be told, most kisses aren't the breathless, curled toes experiences shown in romantic movies, not even the first one. But I would have expected Kenny to at least acknowledge that he liked it. Well, you do sometimes have to kiss a number of frogs before you meet your Prince Charming. And practice makes perfect.

What a thoroughly endearing, loving family. Can't wait for Season Two.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

3 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

I loved Eileen and Kenny dancing at the very end. They really looked like they were having a blast!

They did! I get the feeling this cast really like each other. 

[atomationage]

It was a good episode, but I thought the best one was with Frances Conroy as the Grandma.  Martha Plimpton is the star of the regular cast for me.  I don't really know who this Savage person is that the show is supposed to be about, so I don't know if I'm missing something.

[pennben]

You are missing something:) He and his husband created the "It gets better" campaign a few years ago.  He's a big activist for LGBT community.  He can also be very abrasive.  Here's a wiki article on him if you want broad brush-strokes of who he is.

[xander874]

I did enjoy this episode because every character got a moment to shine a bit. I'm not sure how I feel about Stuart's coming out. I kind of liked him being an effeminate straight guy and going against the norm. Maybe now he and Kenny can be rivals next season - I don't want them as a couple so I hope the show doesn't go there.

[possibilities]

Dan Savage had a syndicated sex advice column long before the It Gets Better Project. That's how I first heard of him.

I'm glad I stuck with this show after a lackluster pilot.

I love how the school takes it in stride when the brothers go to prom together, and even thinks it's sweet. I can't imagine the high school I went to not turning that into a massive teasing opportunity. I was sure the whole thing was going to end in humiliation. I was glad it didn't, and I was also glad they addressed how shitty it is to go after someone else's date while they are actually in the middle of said date. I generally agree that high school is a cesspool of behavior, but it's pleasant that this show manages to portray that, while not excusing it-- and at the same time stays on the feel-good side. And still they aren't giving me sugar shock. Kudos to the writers.

The family interactions are the best, though-- I was amazed they actually discussed the Eileen Dating The VP situation, and it wasn't played only for the wacky hijinks effect. Likewise, the parents as chaperones is a time-worn plot for how embarrassed the kids are by their parents, or how scandalized the parents are by the kids... and this wasn't that at all.

[Tiger]

Season Finale had best since Tuesday debut numbers!

[sheetmoss]

On 5/18/2016 at 0:22 PM, iMonrey said:

Do they really give you free food if you're a cop? I can see maybe a free donut or a free coffee at the donut shop, but an entire meal? And I'm assuming that was supposed to be a Denny's. 

A lot of restaurants like having cops in them just for the safety issue--robberies, esp if they're a 24hr place,They become widely known as a cop restaurant. Also too, it attracts other cops to eat/meet there as well. w/the various shifts
Used to eat daily in a cop restaurant  by work,I know that the cops received discounts on their meal checks per the owner told to us by a waitress .The officers may have gotten free coffee/donut as well.

On 5/26/2016 at 11:21 AM, possibilities said:

Dan Savage had a syndicated sex advice column long before the It Gets Better Project. That's how I first heard of him.

I'

Used to look forward to the Savage Love column in The Chicago Reader every week. Great sex/relationship info column pre-internet

 

Have to say, kudos to ABC allowing 'the kiss' to happen in a manner no  different than a boy/girl  teen couple.

Edited May 28, 2016 by sheetmoss

[starri]

Dan also has a weekly advice podcast that can be a lot of fun to listen to, if for no other reason than it's nice to learn that no matter how weird you think your private life is, there's always someone weirder.

"Stuart is borrowing his mother's Passat, but there's no way he can maintain that level of excitement all night."

[Hero]

"You have your mother's eyes." The Vice Principal is hilarious. 

[mtlchick]

Noah Galvin gave an interview to Vulture: http://www.vulture.com/2016/06/noah-galvin-has-nothing-to-hide.html Note: to say he's not a fan of Colton Haynes' coming out is the understatement of the year.

[starri]

He has some moxie.

[zxy556575]

Well. If nothing else, it makes me more admiring of Noah as an actor, because he himself is nothing like Kenny.

His subsequent retraction and apology was interesting. I didn't think anything he said was bad per se, although it was a bit surprising because actors normally don't speak negatively about other actors, simply as a PR policy.

I can't comment on whether or not his remarks may have been hurtful to some in the LGBTQ community, but they seemed like an honest reflection of his feelings, which he should be free to express (and to suffer any consequences).

[Jaded]

Noah Galvin Issues Apology Over Hollywood "Glass Closet" Interview

[Christina]

I have so many negative comments about those two articles that I decided to keep them to myself. I will say, however, that Noah seems quiet arrogant and hypocritical, which would be okay if he was 16 like his character, but not great for a 22-year-old. I think he is a great actor and enjoy Kenny and the entire show, but I'm think I'm not going to be Noah's biggest fan. I'll post one example of why I think he's a bit juvenile:

First:

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There was a kid who guested on our show. He was flirting with me so blatantly, to the point where he asked me out a few times. At one point I turned to him and was like, Are you gay? And he was like, Well ... I don't know. I'm more like, go with the flow. And I was like, Shut the fuck up. Get out of my face with your wishy-washy bullshit answer. You're a fucking faggot. Like, I know you are. You know you are. Stop beating around the bush. Just go make out with me in my dressing room.

Then:

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But before that, I had made the decision for myself that I was gay. I knew I was gay. I had settled the fact, but wasn't sharing it with anybody at the time. I met this girl doing a play, and I completely fell in love with her. I was so confused. We dated for like three, four months, and it was slightly sexual. I didn't know what was happening. And then I had another best friend who I had come out to throughout this process, and she was like, “You can't string this person along. You have to just be out with it.” But I’m genuinely confused because I really, really love this person. 

He then goes on to say that he is still great friends with her. Now, I'm not gay, but the second quote seems like a pretty normal issue for a teenager; not realizing you can be in love with someone you are not sexually attracted to, or that you can be sexually attracted to someone of the opposite sex that you are primarily attracted to, but with that experience, his first quote just makes him a jerk. So do the comments he makes about dating. 

The apology was probably ordered by his PR company, because he seems to be fine with speaking his mind and owning his words. 

[Bwill3133]

I believe Bryan Singer's lawyers got involved in the first apology. Vulture took that part out of their interview. As for the Colton Haynes part, he is free to have his opinion of course but at 22 who made him judge and jury of how it's acceptable how people come out? 

[possibilities]

I think they're all a bunch of thin-skinned hypocrites. Some of what he said was over the top, and not exactly tactful, but I don't think it was so terrible that he should have to walk it back. There is some truth to a lot of it, and the rest is just his personal opinion, and there are no doubt many who agree with him but are too obedient to say so.

For ex with the Stonestreet criticism, he was careful not to really blame Stonestreet; I took his comments as being about Modern Family in general, and it's a valid point of view that that show is promoting a one dimensional portrayal (not only of The Gays, but also with Gloria, The Spicy Latina). I don't actually think it's done zero good by slightly opening the extremely shut minds of some, but it could have been a trillion times better if they had given it a less extreme representation.

With the molestation comment, OK, that was harsh. But it was clearly sarcasm, and the guy HAD been accused formally in the past, so it's not like Galvin made the whole thing up at random. I get the desire to bury that kind of thing rather than joke about it, but it's not different than sarcastically saying "sure, we all do X stereotypical horrible thing, that's our community"-- maybe too subtle for bigots to parse, but a totally natural kind of humor that happens all the time among people who don't have a stick up their butts and are not trying to sanitize their humor for the masses.

Overall, I think the kid's critique of casting is probably right, and while his frank and gossipy tone won't win him popularity contests, and it wasn't the best way to play it safe, the guy is not running for class president, he's an actor pushing the boundaries because the boundaries have been shit for queers for a long time and he's tired of it.

I'm sure he's been taken in hand and told he really will get thrown out of the Gainfully Employed Actors Club if he doesn't shut up, but if more people refused to settle for the BS and crumbs currently considered "progress," the world would probably be a better place.

One person's "refreshing" is another person's "challenging" and lots of people hate being challenged, but someone's occasionally got to do it.