S20.E09: Week 9

[saber5055]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the audience for this show wasn't 100% made up of men ;)

 

Although, based on the waterfall scene, I am 100-percent sure Ben is a man. And it appears he has chosen best bikini bod over most graceful walk. I also know for a fact that Fleiss could care less about which b-ette I chose. I don't even get to vote on walk vs. bod.

[violet and green]

violet and green, perhaps I should edit my post as I may be incorrect. I inferred from posts here, that Ben was taking a lot of heat on social media because multiple people stated examples of him being given a hard time and going from well-liked to perhaps more mass dislike than Juan Pablo who at least was always honest that he didn't have feelings of love for anyone. I don't use Twitter much or follow the show on any social media, so I was taking the information from the posts here that he was getting skewered, as many do when they make a misstep in the social media age. I used the term "angry mob" regarding reactions to Ben telling 2 women he loved them as an idiom as a way to say "the town folks are upset with good boy Ben" and his treatment of the ladies. I didn't mean to imply that it was more serious than that and that there are literal shouting mobs over Ben's actions. I hope this clarifies my statement/post.

I agree that he is bumbling along, getting lost in the process and his feelings and it is getting messy in a way he did not intend and is not going to be good for him.

 

Oh, that's all right. Don't worry about it. I tend to use a bit of hyperbole, myself, for fun - I didn't think you meant anything serious, but I don't bother myself with social media, so am completely unaware what random bods on twitter etc are saying. Angry mobs of Bachelor viewers with placards in the street would be fun, though.

[GracieK]

No. It was confusing and spanned over episodes as Kaitlyn had rose ceremony's in the middle of episodes and to be continued's and such. On their 1:1, the week before the FS dates, Kaitlyn and Ben talked about past relationships and he said he was in love once. He talked about things important to him and Kaitlyn asked how he felt about the FS coming up. He said that it didn't have to be all about being physical and it is an opportunity to spend more time together and know each other more or something similar. Kaitly then said, "Ben, are you a virgin?" and giggled. He looked a little stunned and put on the spot and said, "No. I'm not." I am not sure if he wanted his sexual history for his family, friends, church, community to see on ABC prime time, but he seemed like, "okaaaaaay... she went THERE." The next week he did go to the FS with Kaitlyn, as did Nick and Shawn. I have no idea or inkling if they had sex. It wasn't made obvious to me either way.

 

Ahh that's right.  I also think with the big deal made over her having sex with Nick and revealing it to Sean maybe clouded my memory in that it didn't seem as though sex happened with Ben.. or at least they didn't make a big deal if it had.  Thanks for clarifying!

[deSchenke]

They switched things around so much on Kaitlyn's season.  Fantasy Suite was before Hometown dates - and it wasn't even in anyone's home town!  I can't remember a thing about Ben's FS date - not a thing!  (Which all kind of saddens me because I'm heading to Ireland in 6 months and all I remember is Chris sobbing at the Cliffs of Moher.)  A check on Wikipedia says they went to Galway - WE'RE heading to Galway - what's to see and do?!

 

Hard to read Ben, regarding his current season and what he did/didn't do, in the Fantasy Suite.

[hyacinth]

 

What confuses me is why many are so angry with Ben for taking all 3 to the FS.

Luckylondon, it makes single women upset because we've had it happen to us:  a man lies about his intentions and true feelings to "achieve short-term mating goals."  (haha, that's what the studies call it. :-))   Bangin' Ben said he loved two women, thus leading each to believe that she was the finalist.

And I think Caila had some sort of blind faith in Ben's essential goodness.   He has a bible verse on his side.  (Which is possibly the best seduction tool of all time.)  So we're not talking about all the other assholes in the past.  We're talking about someone we thought was a really good guy.  And that's why it's so horrifying.   

 

So, yeah, we single women are mad for our peeps. Either Jojo or Lauren is going to be hurt, and hurt badly.   (And I don't know why I care, except for he's really sucked them in.)

 

And also, on a different topic:  Ben doesn't actually fall for blondes, because there isn't a blonde left.  (Lauren's roots get her kicked out of the club.)

[Luckylondon]

Yes, hyacinth, I agree that to the one who is sent home, she is likely to feel very manipulated and feel she was sweet talked and told I love you and then the FS. She likely thinks she is getting engaged and will be told "I love someone else more. Sorry." And it will be humiliating and all feel like lies. I would feel manipulated if it was me. Tell me you love me and a week later proposing to someone else? Kiss my ass choir boy!! I totally 100% can understand from that perspective.

Conversely, I think Ben meant what he said to JoJo or thought he did because of a lot of things going on in his psyche with her family questioning his character and seeing her in that lingerie looking bikini and he was messy and he made a big mistake in speaking his thoughts out loud. I agree with Yorklee2 in that I don't think he did it to be callous or with misintent. In fact, I think he was trying to be validating and honest in the moment. The irony is that his efforts have made him seem less honest and less likeable. I think that Ben's fatal flaw is a need to be liked and thought of as a good guy. The harsh reality is that some people really don't like people who want to be liked. Especially if they have a reason to find them in any way too eager or perceive them false. So that is Ben's stuff to work out about why he does that and decide if he wants to change it.

I do feel badly for the one riding a love cloud that will be sent home. That is rough.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Luckylondon

[hyacinth]

 Look at his minor.  According the girl he was talking to at a bar in Chicago, "sex education or sex studies."  (Where are leering smiley face emoticons when you need them?)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/on-making-out-with-the-bachelor-ben-higgins_us_56955286e4b09dbb4bacd579

Edited March 3, 2016 by hyacinth

[TiredMe]

I must be cold hearted but I couldnt care less if Ben slept with them all (they know how this show works). Same thing about the I love yous. They choose to go on this show and exploit themselves. Zero sympathy.

[leighdear]

The next week he did go to the FS with Kaitlyn, as did Nick and Shawn. I have no idea or inkling if they had sex. It wasn't made obvious to me either way.

They did show the 2 of them the next morning drinking coffee in the suite, and she was in what looked like sleepwear and he was in jammies.  So they had a sleepover, just no idea if they had sex.  Knowing Kaitlyn, I think they did.  And I think Ben's never been Mr. Innocent, he just doesn't flaunt it.  Their "morning after" just faded away in the wake of the more dramatic Shawn vs. Nick Sex Throw Down. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by leighdear

[Nedsdag]

That last ep was designed to hammer home the point that they did remove their clothes and assume the position.

I should not have read this after drinking water. My poor undies.

 

As for the show itself, which I just finished watching (albeit by fast forwarding it, missed Ben's boner with JoJo), Fleiss and Co. will have a difficult time selling either JoJo or Caila as the next Bachelorette (IMHO Lauren B is a slam dunk as Ben's choice.) Caila is too emotionally detached and JoJo looks like an even more busted Khloé Kardashian.

 

If Olivia wasn't such an over the top c-word, she probably would had made a better Bachelorette. Isn't that the reason she was so over the top in her personal videos?

[chocolatine]

To me, the dual ILYs have Fleiss's handwriting all over them; Ben was just enough of a sheep to go along with it. And he has been acting like a kid in a candy store for most of the season with the kissing, so it's not hard to believe he took every opportunity to have sex that was presented to him. In real life, all three of the women would be out of Ben's league, and I'm sure he knows it too. I can't even feel that bad for the one that will get "hurt" (which I think will be JoJo), because after the dust settles, she'll realize that a bland software salesman with "small town values" just isn't that special.

 

What I do hate is that now the precedent has been set, we'll never get a genuine, unguarded reaction to a lead's ILY ever again. The recipient of the ILY will always wonder wether they're the Lauren or the JoJo in the equation.

[yorklee2]

I like Jojo, but I thought she looked really smug at the rose ceremony too, as if Ben's "I love you" proclamation meant she had won... I even thought her toast was kind of obnoxious, as well as how she asked Lauren how confident she felt (or something to that effect).

I have to agree with this. Or at least to how this appeared to look. Ordinally I would be really turned off by this and to me this is a prime example of why I couldn't warm up to her for so long. After seeing her genuine human almost child-like reaction to Ben's, "I love you" though I don't think she meant any harm by it.

I think she was just riding a natural high created by Ben's words and it was hard for it not to show. Remember the pig swimming date when she (and the others) were bummed out over Ben's obvious preference for Lauren? I think she felt she had been taking a back seat to Lauren the entire time and it felt good to show her new found confidence. Kind of mean yeah but I think a human reaction. Personally I feel like Lauren had been getting a wee bit smug herself over her front runner status.

When JoJo asked her if she was feeling confident I think she was trying to gauge how Lauren's date went but at the same time I think part of it was just genuinely trying to make conversation in that long awkward wait for Ben. Honestly I feel like I would like them both in real life for their own distinct personalities. Lauren is sweet and her and Ben seem suited for each other but we have to remember that JoJo is most likely going to be crushed in the next couple of weeks so I'm not that put out by letting her have her moment.

[TTTTorrance]

I was personally quite amused at how butthurt Sean Lowe got on social media after the announcer in the previews deemed Ben "The Most Popular Bachelor Ever"!  Sean was retweeting/favoriting the tweets of various fangirls disputing that, and contending that the best/most popular was actually Sean.  Not surprisingly, he was also extremely judgmental about Ben's actions this week (and retweeted/favorited tweets that criticized Ben).  Methinks someone can't handle being yesterday's news.  Loser.

 

Per Reality Steve, Ben and Kaitlyn did have sex in the fantasy suite.

[Armchair Critic]

I was personally quite amused at how butthurt Sean Lowe got on social media after the announcer in the previews deemed Ben "The Most Popular Bachelor Ever"!

*snicker* Pride is a sin Sean.

[pitchy]

How so? A dress on the floor means nothing to me. Why would someone want to sleep in a dress? Each had other clothes with them that they were wearing in the morning. It isn't like the FS is a surprise so each had other clothes for that purpose. Or they could have slept in bra and panties, or in the buff. Doesn't mean they had intercourse. Like saber5055 said above, I have done it myself. It reallly isn't that hard (no pun intended).

 

While I have been hoping Ben did not have sex with all three of them (though one can't blame someone for test drives for a situation as serious as a proposal for lifetime monogamous co-sexing, but I'd hope it would be between the two most difficult to choose between),  a dress shown on the floor is meant to suggest some serious haste in unaddressing for, um, bed.  I don't know about others, but although I'm not an especially neat person (at all), I actually don't leave my clothes on the floor when I go nighty  :-)

At this point, I imagine he did not do the deed with all three, but the producers want us to think so.

[pitchy]

I noticed that too. It seemed like JoJo was trying to be friendly but Lauren wasn't being receptive. 

 

I thought her question to Lauren was something about how was she feeling, but it came across to me more like

"I hope it wasn't as good for you as it was for me?.."  to confirm what she was thinking or hoping, while Lauren seemed to be noticing that JoJo seemed super happy about how the night went.

[pitchy]

I saw the tears. In one shot they were laying against her lashes getting ready to fall. No they weren't running down her face but as you said she most likely wiped a lot of them away. Most people would and your right everyone doesn't cry the same way (as in copious amounts). They may have been more from anger or regret but I think in this "bach bubble" I believe she felt she loved him and they were tears of hurt also. I believe they were real tears.

 

When he started to tell her and she could see what he was going to say would not be great, and then he said he was falling for two but he couldn't say that to her, and he was fumbling along, tears started welling up in her eyes while she was listening.

 

  That was not eye-drop induced.  Also, it was the first episode during which I thought she seemed most genuinely happy.  

 

  She reverted to trying to be fake-upbeat for a few seconds.  But when he said something like he'd miss her, she said, "That sounds like a line..."  and then later, "You don't have to say that" about something else, those were very real responses.

 

 Saying  "That sounds like a line" was out of normal character for her, and I said, "GOOD FOR YOU!"  while I was watching.  He is so robotically-nice.

[Armchair Critic]

Ben needs to grab all the gusto he can get, in 10 years he will be a middle aged guy with a receding hairline working a boring sales job.

[pitchy]

I see some of the same behavior with Ben - getting upset at Jubilee's (very real) reactions, pushing Caila to emote. If he's not feeling it with one of the ladies, he should own it. No one's expecting him to fall in love with 26 women. Just don't blame the woman.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the two remaining women did something "wrong" (in his eyes) during their final dates, which will form the basis of elimination. My hunch is JoJo will be the unlucky recipient of blame. Lauren has played this very smoothly.

 

He already did it.  He was telling JoJo how much he felt for her but then said he wasn't comfortable with her brothers.  This could cause her to feel they "ruined" it for her.  I said, while watching, "Oh, sure!  Blame it on the brothers!."

Edited March 3, 2016 by pitchy

[pitchy]

Ben may be sort of fumbling along in his handling of the feelings of the others, but I just find him amazingly smooth for a fumbler.

 

 

[yorklee2]

Ben needs to grab all the gusto he can get, in 10 years he will be a middle aged guy with a receding hairline working a boring sales job.

While I see where your going with this Ben is 26 now, which would make him 36 in ten years. Hardly what I would call middle aged. 20 years would be more accurate.

Edited March 3, 2016 by yorklee2

[ByTor]

According to the CDC, the average life expectancy for males in the USA is 76.4, the mid point being 38.2. Statistically, 36 is a lot closer to middle aged than 46.

Edited March 3, 2016 by ByTor

[yorklee2]

According to the CDC, the average life expectancy for males in the USA is 76.4, the mid point being 38.2. Statistically, 36 is a lot closer to middle aged than 46.

That might statistically be so but I don't know of anyone who would consider 36 middle age. To me that is still fairly young. I'm 51 and while I'm not a spring chicken I'm not elderly. To some I guess I would be. I am however firmly in the middle age bracket. If someone had called me middle age at 36 I would have, I don't care to admit, been slightly offended. There's a lot of variables to what constitutes any age range and a lot of generalizations of labels. I don't care what statistics say. Edited March 3, 2016 by yorklee2

[MsPH]

I read in some quality paper once that middle age starts at 36. Not sure who came up with it, I think it was probably based on some big survey. I don't think it's wrong though, because I don't see how you could be considered "young" at that age. Obviously not old either these days, but it wasn't long ago that most people died before hitting 40. 36 is definitely between young and old AKA middle age. 

[TVGlow]

What I do hate is that now the precedent has been set, we'll never get a genuine, unguarded reaction to a lead's ILY ever again. The recipient of the ILY will always wonder wether they're the Lauren or the JoJo in the equation.

Or if there is no ILY, one might worry she's the Caila, when the possibility exists that the bachelor is saving the ILY for the end. Paranoia all around.

[JudyObscure]

And also, on a different topic: Ben doesn't actually fall for blondes, because there isn't a blonde left. (Lauren's roots get her kicked out of the club.)

Oh, if we're only going to count natural blondes that just leaves us with the twins, based on the bald-eyed way they looked without make-up.

One more thing on my wish to see how the women walk. I never meant to imply that we should see their walk at the expense of seeing them in bikinis, or that the walk counts more, just that the show should include it, since it's part of the total package. It wouldn't require any extra time just a few more long shots during the dates. It helps explain things. I've noticed some really pretty girls, standing on the eviction steps after being cut and me wondering why. Then they turn away and lumber off to the curb like a Russian shot-putter in her first pair of heels.

Maybe most men don't care at all, but I know I got really tired of watching Kaitlyn, during her season, turn away from the men and walk away hunched over with her tatted up elbows in the air, holding the front of her dress as if she had just dribbled onion dip in her lap and wanted to get to a sink before it stained.

[ByTor]

That might statistically be so but I don't know of anyone who would consider 36 middle age. To me that is still fairly young.

Please keep in mind that I provided the statistics...you know, the 47 year old who refuses to believe she reached middle age yet ;-)

[huahaha]

According to the CDC, the average life expectancy for males in the USA is 76.4, the mid point being 38.2. Statistically, 36 is a lot closer to middle aged than 46.

 

That's the life expectancy at birth (with infant and childhood deaths averaged in, along with other early deaths). A 26-year-old male today has a life expectancy of 82. If he lives to 70, that goes up to 88.

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/longevity.cgi

 

Merriam-Webster says middle-aged means 40 to 60, which seems about right. (Oddly, their definition for middle age is 45 to 64.) The term is for the middle of adulthood, I believe. 

 

While I'm at it, cheers is an interjection. The verb forms of 'to cheer' don't have the same meaning, so please never start a toast with "I'd like to cheers" OR "I'd like to cheer."

Edited March 3, 2016 by huahaha

[ByTor]

I looked at Webster, and interestingly 40-60 is considered the medical definition of middle age, but the "regular" (for lack of the better word) definition is between 45-64 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/middle%20age. Either way, I better face it...I'm middle aged now and I'll STILL be in another 10 years, while Ben won't :) ETA...I liked that little SSA chart you linked to; apparently I'm living to 85.5 :)

I've never heard ANYBODY say "I'd like to cheers" and I must have missed Ben saying it. Between that and his use of "and I's", I guess it's safe to say he wasn't an English major.

Edited March 3, 2016 by ByTor

[violetr]

I really hope not. I find that practice so utterly gross and regressive that I told my now-husband that if he asked my father, I would say no. Do people in real life still do that as often as they do in TV and movies?

 

 

Oh I dunno, my husband and I are both liberal,  progressive feminists and he asked my dad. I thought it was kind of old fashioned but I wasn't clutching my pearls over it. He did it in front of me and the whole thing was kind of tongue in cheek. My dad replied in a faux formal tone, "I give you my blessing, son." It was sweet and funny. My big issue would have been if my then-fiancee expected me to take his last name. I get why people still do it, but that would have been a deal breaker for me. 

 

That's why the whole thing with the baseball jersey saying "Mrs. Higgins" rubbed me the wrong way. What an assumption!

Edited March 3, 2016 by violetr

[ByTor]

^^^Interestingly, I went to high school with a woman whose son-in-law took her daughter's last name when they got married. When I got divorced I went back to my maiden name, and if I ever were to remarry, I can't see changing my name either, so I agree with you about that jersey being a tad presumptuous.

[PhysNerd]

I really hope not. I find that practice so utterly gross and regressive that I told my now-husband that if he asked my father, I would say no. Do people in real life still do that as often as they do in TV and movies?

 

Yes, my friend's fiancee asked her father for permission to marry her.  Some people find it romantic while others don't.  It depends on how "traditional" the couple is. Of course, I always find it odd when women (not saying you in particular) are opposed to their fiancee asking their father for permission to marry while being perfectly ok with their father walking down the aisle.  The implication of a father walking his daughter down the aisle is that he owns her; the father is giving away his daughter to her husband.  There is a transfer of ownership.  It's all rather unsettling. 

 

Anyway, I don't think Ben is intentionally malicious or a sociopath.  He's very young, stressed out and immature.  I doubt a man twice his age would fare much better in his situation. Saying "I love you" to two different women was an obvious mistake, but I'm not going to be hard on him.  Anyone who signs up for these shows should be aware that they are likely to be humiliated on tv and their chances of being chosen at the end are slim.  "The Bachelor" is not a brand new show.  It's been around for 2 decades, so these women have had ample opportunity to research the show in order to find out what they are getting themselves into.  Hopefully, Ben and his final pick are happy in the end. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by PhysNerd

[saber5055]

While I see where your going with this Ben is 26 now, which would make him 36 in ten years. Hardly what I would call middle aged. 20 years would be more accurate.

IMO, 30 years would make it spot on.

 

But that being neither here nor there, I don't really foresee Ben being pot-bellied and/or bald by age 36, whether that is technically 'middle age" or not. Some men actually DO keep all their (real) hair. I actually know one who did!

 

Judy, that was me who picked on you wanting to see how the women walk. (Although I still say men don't care, they only care how quickly the woman can get horizontal.) I remember Ashley the Dentist being bow-legged, and I was stunned when she was chosen as b-ette because of that. She turned out to be okay, but I still hated seeing her walk, especially when she was wearing shorts that put those bandy bird legs on full view. So yeah, I agree about the walk. But I think it's mainly women who care about it. I dated one guy who was horribly splay footed when he walked and it bugged the heck out of me. (Plus he turned out to be a massive tool, his persona matched his feet.)

 

And YES to these women knowing what they signed up for when they applied for this show, FS and ILYs included. Any who are "devastated" when sent home or being rejected are working on their contract as next b-ette, or host of DWTS. And any who have intercourse with the bach in the FS do so of their own volition. I don't feel sorry or any one of them if they are kicked to the curb later, and I don't blame Ben in the least if the woman is willing. "It takes two to tango."

 

If sleeping with a guy means one has to get engaged/married because of it, some of us would have a big box full of Neil Lane diamonds. There's also such a thing as "Just say NO."

The implication of a father walking his daughter down the aisle is that he owns her; the father is giving away his daughter to her husband.  There is a transfer of ownership.  It's all rather unsettling.

I never thought of it that way before, but WOW, that is so true. Thanks for pointing that out. I guess it all goes back to a man wanting to marry the woman with the best dowry. You know, the most goats, cows and horses he can add to his own. Those and the bride, all considered possessions. YIKES!

Edited March 3, 2016 by saber5055

[MsPH]

Desiree had the worst walk. I was watching that season with my boyfriend and he couldn't stop mentioning that she walks like a man, so no, it's not just women who pay attention to these things. Des also has stubby legs, which didn't help her attractiveness. She still ended up snagging an ex-athlete, so good for her!

[MakeMeLaugh]

In ten years Ben will still be nice looking and younger than Brad2.0.

[Armchair Critic]

It was a joke people, I just picked middle aged in 10 years because it sounded funny. My point is that The Bachelor used to be a guy who had a good career or some money (whether it was legit or not) now it has devolved into somebody like Sean who is doing sleazy reality show gigs to pay the bills. Down the road is Ben going to be that much of a catch besides bragging rights that you "won" him? I think you have a better chance at meeting a good guy outside reality tv (and I am not talking just about money but quality of a mate).

[Pixie Chicken]

And YES to these women knowing what they signed up for when they applied for this show, FS and ILYs included. Any who are "devastated" when sent home or being rejected are working on their contract as next b-ette, or host of DWTS. And any who have intercourse with the bach in the FS do so of their own volition. I don't feel sorry or any one of them if they are kicked to the curb later, and I don't blame Ben in the least if the woman is willing. "It takes two to tango."

If sleeping with a guy means one has to get engaged/married because of it, some of us would have a big box full of Neil Lane diamonds. There's also such a thing as "Just say NO."

Thank you. While I find it gross to sleep with three people in the span of a week, they are all consenting adults. If that happened here, why does it make Ben a cad but the women blameless victims? Regardless of what he said, they know there's a 1/3 chance they'll be sent home in short order, and 2/3 chance they won't "win."

I guess I'm a cynic but this show manipulates everything for maximum drama. Ben doesn't plan dates or choose which girls go on them. Caila didn't plan on her own to visit him. It isn't reality. It's "reality." I fully expect that the runners up are in on the narrative, more often than not, either in exchange for a shot at Bachelorette, DWTS, or more exposure and therefore greater odds of eking out a career as a D-list celebrity.

[Padma]

I thought everyone agreed 40 was middle aged, but I guess not. (OT, wait till your 50th birthday--you still feel middle aged but AARP send you enrollment information). I -do- think that Ben has "unfaithful husband" written all over him the way he acted this week. I would run, run run if I were either of F2, but I think it will take a while to sink in what their "prize" is really like, probably a bit like Chris S and Whitney. She had built up such a fantasy about him and what a great, honest, sincerely caring man he was and it took a while (even without watching the whole show) to figure out that he really wasn't.

 

Long before a marriage happens, I'm sure Lauren or JoJo will figure out the same thing about Ben. After family and friends see this week and (apparently) the rest of the season, I think JoJo's brothers are going to be the ones who called it right from the beginning and others will see it that way, too.

[saber5055]

I think you have a better chance at meeting a good guy outside reality tv (and I am not talking just about money but quality of a mate).

Yes, but does everyone apply to/go on TB to find a spouse? I think motives go way deeper than that. Or shallower, whichever end of the pool you are on. Yes, every once in a while people appear 'for the right reasons" *coughashleyjpcough* but others ... well, this world is full of people who want their 15 Warhol minutes. They all want to be famous, and D-list works for most.

 

If you do happen to find "love," well then, there's the bonus. Just don't count on it.

 

And I really hesitate to judge the morals of people appearing on a heavily edited and scripted tv show, especially one produced by Fleiss. Or give them black-and-white personality traits. Watcher, beware!

Edited March 3, 2016 by saber5055

[yorklee2]

It was a joke people, I just picked middle aged in 10 years because it sounded funny. My point is that The Bachelor used to be a guy who had a good career or some money (whether it was legit or not) now it has devolved into somebody like Sean who is doing sleazy reality show gigs to pay the bills. Down the road is Ben going to be that much of a catch besides bragging rights that you "won" him? I think you have a better chance at meeting a good guy outside reality tv (and I am not talking just about money but quality of a mate).

I realized Armchair that you were joking, that's why I said I could see where you were going with your post. I guess your estimate kind of stuck out to me since that was the first time I had ever saw anything suggesting that 36 was middle-aged.

 

I agree anyone would most definitely stand a better chance of finding a great guy outside this show. That's why most of these couples don't last. The don't have time to really get to know someone or except them for who they really are. I guess that's why we've seen so many posts on here of people stating that all these women were better than him. Realistically I can't see JoJo or Caila giving Ben a serious chance in real life. Lauren maybe, which is why she really is a better fit for him.  

[hyacinth]

 

Oh, if we're only going to count natural blondes that just leaves us with the twins, based on the bald-eyed way they looked without make-up.

Haha, so true.  I'm a natural blonde and we are who makeup was actually invented for.   :-)    I think most brunettes look great with no make up on! 

 

 

Realistically I can't see JoJo or Caila giving Ben a serious chance in real life. Lauren maybe, which is why she really is a better fit for him.

So very true.   I can't quite figure out why Jojo's even on the show.  Or Caila, either.  Wouldn't men in Boston be falling all over her?   They both seem to have good careers and live in lively cities with lots of singles.    And neither seem to be getting a career boost from appearing on the show.  

Edited March 3, 2016 by hyacinth

[yorklee2]

 

Oh, if we're only going to count natural blondes that just leaves us with the twins, based on the bald-eyed way they looked without make-up.

Exactly. Although it is obvious he prefers blondes, natural or otherwise. I remember in Kaitlyn's season he never really seemed to be into her that much to me. I'm in the group who felt his exit interview in the limo was very wooden and forced. Looking back knowing what we know now I wouldn't care to bet he picked Britt over Kaitlyn in the vote, since she had a blondish mix to her hair.

[hyacinth]

 

Exactly. Although it is obvious he prefers blondes, natural or otherwise.

 

But Jojo's not blonde.    Most men aren't aware that they have to express a preference.  :-) 

Edited March 3, 2016 by hyacinth

[UsernameFatigue]

It was sweet and funny. My big issue would have been if my then-fiancee expected me to take his last name. I get why people still do it, but that would have been a deal breaker for me.

 

My now hubby and I never discussed this before we got engaged. He found out after that I had no intention of changing my name, and he was a bit miffed. I told him that after so many years of having the same name (45 when I got engaged but truthfully I felt the same at 20) I saw no reason to change it, but if after the same number of years of having the same name he would like to change his last name to mine, to be my guest. He never mentioned it again.

 

The implication of a father walking his daughter down the aisle is that he owns her; the father is giving away his daughter to her husband.  There is a transfer of ownership.  It's all rather unsettling.

 

I have always felt this way about that tradition. By the time I married my father had passed, so had he been alive since I was the only daughter I likely would have done this but for his sake not mine. But since he was gone I walked down the aisle alone which would have been my preference. I am amazed how many people asked me though who was going to give me away. I told them all that no one was giving me away as I wasn't anyones to give away. (My mother in law to be actually said "You can do that?" Sheesh!).   I have a couple of friends who have been married multiple times, one twice and the other three times. It amazed me that they went through the whole 'father giving away the bride' thingy at all of their weddings. My friend who was marrying for the third time had her father tell her that he hoped this was the last time because he was tired of them continually giving her back - lol.

[call me ishmael]

 

So very true.   I can't quite figure out why Jojo's even on the show.  Or Caila, either.  Wouldn't men in Boston be falling all over her?   They both seem to have good careers and live in lively cities with lots of singles.    And neither seem to be getting a career boost from appearing on the show.

I thought the point was simply being on TV. I doubt anyone goes on it because they can't get dates in real life and very few think it will give them a career boost especially since it is designed to make them look bad (here's looking at you Olivia).

[ByTor]

But Jojo's not blonde.    Most men aren't aware that they have to express a preference.  :-)

This reminds me of a guy I dated. I've changed between blonde and brunette over the years and asked him what he liked. His answer was that he likes hair. After that I assumed more men felt that way than I thought :)

[StatisticalOutlier]

He has a bible verse on his side.  (Which is possibly the best seduction tool of all time.) 

 

Hoo boy, not for me! 

[TVGlow]

I know this show is not a true reality, and that there is significant producer and editor manipulation. However, as the show concluded, all I could think was how unbelievably scripted this particular episode was, from the shout out to the Jamaica tourism bureau, to the double ILYs, to Caila's "surprise" visit. It didn't feel like a single word out of Ben's mouth was original, or sincere for that matter.

Actually, I could also think about how shortsighted it was for Ben to agree to say ILY to two women.

Sharleen wrote in her Flare recap how she would love to find somebody with no knowledge of the Bachelor series and see how they reacted to this episode. I would tune into THAT! (Who am I kidding, I obviously would tune into anything, been here since S01.E01.)

[huahaha]

I'm now watching Sean's season for the first time because of his posts about Ben's season. Whatever you want to say about Ben's shady "I love yous," I really appreciate a bachelor who hasn't tried to kill the girls with free falls, roller derby contests, sheer rock climbs, ice storms, and polar bear plunges. Yay for a season of the Bachelor that doesn't look like Fear Factor!

[chocolatine]

I'm now watching Sean's season for the first time because of his posts about Ben's season. Whatever you want to say about Ben's shady "I love yous," I really appreciate a bachelor who hasn't tried to kill the girls with free falls, roller derby contests, sheer rock climbs, ice storms, and polar bear plunges. Yay for a season of the Bachelor that doesn't look like Fear Factor!

 

Selma refusing to do the polar bear plunge is one of my favorite moments in Bachelor history!