S03.E06: Bitter Harvest

[Tara Ariano]

Clarke is torn between vengeance and mercy. Meanwhile, Kane and Octavia work together to prevent a disaster; and Abby continues to worry about Raven.

[stealinghome]

This episode needed 80% more Clarke angsting over Emerson and 80% less Pike/Bellamy stupidity. I am way, way, WAY more invested in Clarke's guilt over Mount Weather than in the Fortress of Suckitude.

 

Seriously, all the sane people left in Arkadia--and I guess Raven and Jaha, since the City of Light stuff is heating up--need to just go live separately and peacefully with the Grounders. Leave the Pike-following idiots to their fate of death. I include Bellamy in that group. Dumb gets what's coming to it.

 

Did not see Jackson being a CoL plant coming. Intriguing! And Polis=Polaris? YES PLEASE!

Edited February 26, 2016 by stealinghome

[ParadoxLost]

Dumb gets what's coming to it.

 

This storyline would be so much better if that was Lexa's proclamation.  I'm having a hard time believing no one stopped in the process of making these episodes as soon as they heard 'Blood must not call blood' and 'I call on my warriors not to fight' and thought Oh Shit!  That's sounding distractingly stupid.  This is not going to work.

 

So I am now off the idea that Bellamy was brought to his senses by Clarke and 300 bodies and faking continued allegiance to get close to and kill Pike.

 

But I'm doubling down on the idea that Bellamy takes the pill eventually to forget what he has done and Clarke will resist and live with her guilt.  Jaha not remembering his son, totally not surprised.

 

I'm also a little concerned that the show will decide that Bellamy's punishment is Octavia's death.

Edited February 26, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[tennisgurl]

I swear, this whole season could just be subtitled "Damn it Bellamy"! And all this for some girl we hardly knew? Come on! At least Mont does not seem to be drinking the Kool Aid. I hope he gets out of that nut factory soon, or at least helps make things a little less ridiculous. 

 

Look at Clark and Lexa, running things and being awesome. Clark is such an interesting character, I am always happy to see her internal life. 

 

No Jackson! You joined the cult! And Jaha is really losing touch with reality. I loved the scene where Abby is talking to Jaha, and she realizes that he forgot about Wells. Jaha is no longer driving this truck. 

[ybrik]

Those bastards! Dirty evil grounders! How dare they not be okay with people taking their lands? It is really awful for them to ambush people storming into their camp intent on killing them.

 

A little bit of hypocracy going on this ep. Clark wanting her revenge was obvious. However it seems Monty forgot what he told Maya when she tried to justify the things the MM were doing to survive yet he is following Pike and his mom in these things for his people to survive.

 

Like the reveal of where the name Polis came from. I wonder how this is all connected. It can't be a coincidence. I wonder if this is connected to the Nightbloods? Could they be descendants of the 13th station?

 

Need to see the ep again to see what I missed on the first watch.

Edited February 26, 2016 by ybrik

[kdm07]

So the 13th Station which is Polaris which is Polis is connected to the Grounders and ALIE somehow? I'm fully on board in seeing more Polis and the COL stuff now!

 

Pike/Bellamy are killing my vibe every time they show up on my screen.

[ParadoxLost]

Like the reveal of where the name Polis came from. I wonder how this is all connected. It can't be a coincidence. I wonder if this is connected to the Nightbloods? Could they be descendants of the 13th station?

 

I don't think its a coincidence that the 13th station (likely) became the 12 clans and then the survivors of 12 stations (briefly) became the 13th clan.

 

I think Lexa knows some legend that has its roots in the 13th station and that is what is driving her to lead everyone and make peace with the sky people.

Edited February 26, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[Agent Dark]

Oh wow, this episode just blew the mythology wide open.  What Pike and Bellamy are up to is almost like an annoying itch distracting from something much bigger (which is probably exactly what Lexa thinks of it lol, and what Clarke may be coming to understand).  There's so many interlocking bits of mythology starting to come into play now:

 

• What really happened prior to Unity Day
• The founding of Polis and it's connection to Polaris (aka the 13th Station)
• The origins of the Nightbloods and the Commander - as per Lexa, the Commander is re-incarnated and Lexa 'talks' to the previous Commanders in her sleep.  Is this connected to the next point below?
• ALIE v1.0 and ALIE v2.0
• The City of Light showing it darker side (wiping away pain would appear to mean ALL pain, including the memories of your dead son or boyfriend...)
• The change in Grounder society driven by Lexa's new 'Blood Must Not Have Blood' approach possibly throwing a wrench into the balance of the various factions in play. 

 

So excited for the rest of the season, to see where this is all going.

 

Also, Clarke is a fucking badass.  "May you live forever".  The Commander of Death has just given you a life sentence.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Agent Dark

[yellowfred]

I really need them to stop making Polis the B/C plot, because it is by far the one I'm most interested in.  

 

It kind of felt like Lexa was testing Clarke a little by asking her to decide Emerson's fate.  Maybe "testing" is the wrong word, but it definitely felt like she wanted to see if Clarke would follow the same advice she gave her.  I think Titus was hoping that Clarke would kill him so that Lexa would be somewhat less enamored of her.  I don't think it would have made Lexa change her mind about not going to war with Arkadia, but I do think it would have been a blow to their relationship, both personal and professional, if Clarke had gone ahead and killed him.  

 

Also, the main thing I got from the Arkadia plot is that the grounders just have to wait a year and their Skaikru problem will solve itself.

[thuganomics85]

Of course!  Pike and his men massacre 300 Grounders and it's just the cost of "war."  But when a Grounder village sets a trap because the Arkadia crew is totally going to invade them (and I don't see a "Please leave!" approach to their methods), and it causes two deaths, Pike is all "How dare they?!  They fought back, instead of just bending over and taking it!"  The hypocrisy is so stunning, only equal to how most of the citizens don't seem to be able to see it.  And Bellamy continues to lose my respect, by continuing to follow his orders like a chump.  And now they are both going to go after Kane, so I hope Kane's got his ass covered, because it's not like I expect due process from Pike.  He's probably already creating a Guantanamo for Kane and those who dare to defy him.  The only way I see Bellamy snapping out of this is if Pike tries to do something against Octavia, but just how many more bodies is Bellamy going to be responsible for, before this ends?

 

Meanwhile, Clarke faces her own little dilemma with her "blood must not have blood" believes, once Emerson is delivered to her.  At first, she totally wants to kill him, but then comes around at the end.  Although, it sounds like part of it was not because she thinks she's wrong, but that Emerson will suffer more alive, then dead.  Plus, Lexa was over there giving her the disappointed look, which I'm sure made Clarke sad.  But now Clarke's "mercy" allows Lexa to give a big speech about toning down the killing, so lets see if that holds.  She certainly as someone people not down with it (looking at you, Titus!)  In other Clarke/Lexa news, Clarke is now drawing pictures of a sleeping Lexa, which I'm sure is just an appetizer for the main course, when during sweeps, Lexa suddenly asks Clarke to draw her nude.  Or maybe not...

 

City of Light is getting crazier.  Raven has brought in new recruits, although Abby did prevent Jasper form joining Team Coco Puffs for the time being.  So far, there isn't anything wrong with the blood of users, but Abby is now testing the actual keys, which I can understand, especially when side effects might be memory lost, since Jaha totally forgot about Wells.  Oh, and Spencer if part of the cult now.  Oh, and the other AI they're looking for?  Is in the scraped 13th station that never went into space, but is instead in Titus' lair.  Who is currently beating the shit out of poor Murphy.  Again, crazy!

 

Abby kisses Kane on the cheek, which is probably a step into them going further, because The CW does occasionally allow characters in their 40s to have romance.

[ParadoxLost]

Lexa 'talks' to the previous Commanders in her sleep.  Is this connected to the next point below?

• ALIE v1.0 and ALIE v2.0

 

Yes I think it is.  I think ALIE 2.0 is influencing the Grounders.  Doesn't sound like its mind control like ALIE 1.0 but probably only because the program is supposedly unfinished/damaged or perhaps doesn't have followers with enough technical or resources to create a more overt method of control like ALIE 1.0's pills.

[Ravenya003]

My favourite part? The evil little smile on Clarke's face when she spares Emerson's life, knowing that she was using her own "blood must not have blood" rhetoric to condemn him to a much crueller fate than death. For all her talk about forgiveness and peace, she knew damn well what she was doing when she chose to show "mercy" to the guy who has a dead teenager's bone marrow in his system. 

[dippydee]

Can Pike die soon please? I am so done with him. Are you shocked the Grounders didn't just lie down and let you kill them and take their land? Really? I especially hate what the whole storyline is doing to Bellamy. I wish they'd just get on with his inevitable redemption arc because the deeper they dig him into Pike's idiocy the harder it becomes to redeem him.

Meanwhile Octavia continues to be the superior Blake. She's just awesome even though things went kinda badly for her at the village. At least she tried.

Raven, Raven, Raven AI chicks in red dresses are always trouble. Don't help them, didn't BSG teach you anything? That said I fully support anything that gets Raven some screen time. Plus I'm finally fully onboard for the CoL. Ravens involvement, the link to the Grounders (Polis =Polaris) and the fact that the whole thing is becoming a more central plot are all things in its favour.

My favourite part? The evil little smile on Clarke's face when she spares Emerson's life, knowing that she was using her own "blood must not have blood" rhetoric to condemn him to a much crueller fate than death.

That was one of my favourite bits too. The "may you live forever" cemented she knew exactly what she was doing in letting him live. She gets to punish him in a way that really hurts him and she gets the added bonus of backing up her cease-fire by letting her actions speak louder than her words. Smart Clarke is the best.

[loki567]

The Clarke plotline actually annoyed me a little bit just because they wanted to fit it into these nice and easy categories of revenge/peace, when really Emerson was acting belligerently violent and played a part in lining up the Ambassadors against Lexa. At a certain point, killing Emerson would be self-defense and Lexa should be smart enough to know the difference. It reminds me of that great moment in Firefly where Mal tried to make peace with the bandit he screwed over, the bandit gave him, "If you let me go, I'll hunt you down and kill you," so Mal kicked him into the engine. 

 

And how stupid was Titus trying to guilt Clarke into convincing Lexa to attack Clarke's people? WTF? 

 

I actually like the grounder village/Octavia plot for all the reasons I didn't like the Clarke plot. It was interestingly messy. Octavia tries to help, but just makes everything more messed up and in the end, gets captured for it. That's The 100 at its best, when it doesn't take the easy way out on its storylines. 

 

And it is fun to watch all the plotlines starting to converge. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by loki567

[marcee]

I find it interesting how the original 100 and "their people" are now, in my eyes, looking like the bad guys. I spent 2 seasons praying for their survival and now I wouldn't mind so much if the 12 clans just wiped 'em out.

[dippydee]

Monroe is dead now? Booh, there are so few of the original 100 left that I had been hoping they would extend the parts of the minor recurring players that had been part of the 100.

I'm not too sad about Monroe (though if they'd killed Harper we'd be having words) but I do sometimes miss seeing them all together as a group, when the biggest concerns were learning to hunt and figuring out how to make moonshine and gunpowder. Y'know the good old days.

Eta: we also got a headcount for Mount Weather (381 people-well 382 including Emerson). This show seems to have a facination with killing 300 people at a time. The volunteers to conserve oxygen on the ark, the Grounder force at the end of s1, Mt Weather, the peacekeeping force outside Arkadia....what is the current population of Arkadia? because they're probably next in line to add to the body count.

Edited February 26, 2016 by dippydee

[absnow54]

I was pretty disappointed with this episode, but the 13th Colony/Polaris/Grounders connection sucked me right back in. I can't wait to see how it's all connected. 

[piequinn35]

I really don't care now about Bellamy/Pike story they can die hehe maybe not Bellamy (coz he's a main char) but Pike and his minions

Polis from Poralis the 13th station wow I want to see more of this ALIE 1.0 connecting to ALIE 2.0 (which I assume connected to the Commander/s of the grounders)

Don't kill Kane please...

Edited February 26, 2016 by piequinn35

[Primetimer]

Jaha continues feeding Arkadia his empty-calorie salvation, while Clarke experiments with being boring.

Read the story

[Artsda]

Someone needs to kill Pike and destroy Jaha's bag. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

I really, really don't like that Lexa and Clarke's stance on peace is based on an obvious false dichotomy. There is plenty of middle ground between "we wipe them all out" and "we will try to make peace immediately even if the other side is committed to continue attacking". Shouldn't they at least send an army to monitor Arkadia's moves? What kind of an idiot reacts to a pre-emptive strike by assuming peace is still in place? I love Lexa but this is a political suicide (and in grounder politics this probably means actual "suicide" with the help of few political rivals) and an extremely ineffective strategy against an enemy who thinks it's winning a war and can push you around. Can you imagine if after Pearl Harbor Roosevelt said "Well, folks, we will either have to kill each and every Japanese person on Earth or do nothing and assume we are still at peace"? I was hoping "Blodd must not have blood" also meant "But war criminals are still fair game, as in any rational society" but apparently you must either forgive everyone or no one because everyone in the show suddenly failed Common Sense 101.

 

I kind of enjoyed seeing Murphy being tortured, to be honest but Titus does have a few screws loose, doesn't he?

 

Why on Earth did Bellamy and pals attack that village at night? It's not like the sneaked in with the noisy vehicle of theirs, so they just gave the grounders a much better chance to resist them for no reason.

 

Sorry, Jaha you are not Gaius Baltar. He was funny and charismatic. You are just a lunatic. The moment he showed he had forgotten Wells was chilling though. Still don't like the importance that ALIE seems to be having in the plot.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[Triskan]

Sad that Monty is in Camp Dumpikellamy... 

[ParadoxLost]

I was hoping "Blood must not have blood" also meant "But war criminals are still fair game, as in any rational society" but apparently you must either forgive everyone or no one because everyone in the show suddenly failed Common Sense 101.

 

The problem is that Bellamy is one of the war criminals and they really don't want to kill Bellamy.

[quarks]

I'm confused by the timeline and by the weather.

 

The first season seems to have covered a couple of months, as did the second season. In both seasons characters kept saying "Winter is coming!" as if to prove to us that they aren't just struggling to survive in an apocalyptic world, but are also Game of Thrones fans.

 

The third season started out by saying that about 80 days had passed since the end of the second season, right?  So did winter happen during those 80 days?  If so, that seems somewhat short.  If not, I'm not sure why Pike and Bellamy are in such a rush to secure the village and its soil now if they won't be able to plant anything until March or April anyway. Especially since Bellamy should really remember what happened when Finn attacked a Grounder village.

[SourK]

LOL - of course there is a thirteenth colony. I do seem to remember hearing rumblings about a war between the stations in the first season, when they were celebrating their unity or whatever, but I completely forgot about it until now. I'm kind of impressed that they brought that back and built on it.

 

Agree with everyone -- this "blood must not have blood" thing is idiotic. I love peace as much as the next person, but, when somebody comes and kills hundreds of your people the correct response is not to say "Oh well, let's turn the other cheek." You don't have to wipe out their entire race, but you need to demand some kind of justice.

 

I was actually pleased that this episode began by pointing out what a total fucking hypocrite Clarke is, and interested in the scene where she flatly admitted to that priest that she was acting in the best interests of her people and not Lexa's, but overall still kind of frustrated. I mean, I guess this is what happens when you put a couple of teenagers in charge of international diplomacy or whatever, but come on.

 

Why did Miller not get to kiss his boyfriend goodbye? It seemed rather weird when they hugged awkwardly before he left with Bellamy to head towards Grounder village. If my boyfriend was about to leave on a potentially deadly mission, I'd kiss the crap out of him.

This. There is a weird TV belief that gay guys only ever hug each other, and I thought this show was above that.

 

I find it interesting how the original 100 and "their people" are now, in my eyes, looking like the bad guys. I spent 2 seasons praying for their survival and now I wouldn't mind so much if the 12 clans just wiped 'em out.

Especially since Clarke, Octavia and possibly even Kane -- depending on his choices in the next few episodes -- could be spared. Those are the three I'd really miss other than Raven, and I'm worried for Raven, now, because, if this microchip thing isn't reversible later, I think she's going to die in a software purge or something...

[stealinghome]

The problem is that Bellamy is one of the war criminals and they really don't want to kill Bellamy.

Or even fully acknowledge that Bellamy, Pike and co are war criminals. It's so weird--the show harps on and on about the massacre so that the viewers know Bellamy did A Bad Thing, yet they're not letting anyone outside of maybe Kane react to it like a normal human being would react to it. So like, it's not THAT bad because everyone else is downplaying it relative to how it should be treated.

[RCharter]

Again, so many parallels to real life.....originally saying that you are just using force to "defend your turf" and suddenly using force offensively to gain land or something you need.  And there is not even so much as an eye blink of time to think about just how different a goal the two are.  Apparently its exactly the same to kill people that you thought were going to kill you, and to kill people for their land....because in the end you'll die without the land.  Its been such a seamless transition that no one even questions Pike.  Everyone justifies their behavior.  Monty's mother reaching out to a grounder child in kindness and then telling the other two to kill him.

 

And what exactly is Abby's position now?  Is she vice chancellor?  Pike said it was her job to deal with Jaha, but I'm uncertain as to how/why she has that power?

 

Everyone is being told that all of this is necessary.  They are being made to believe that this violence is the only choice by Pike.  They NEED to defend themselves against an army....they NEED that land so they have to kill everyone on it.  The justification makes it all palatable....they aren't cold blooded killers, they are justice warriors!

[AnnaMayWong]

Can someone explain the history of Polaris and its connection to the space Ark?

What's the connection, historically, between Lexa's crew and Skaikru ?

[Riful]

So Bellamy and Co were going into village to kill not only crippled and elderly in their sleep, but also children, and we are expected to accept a redemption story line later on? Just what are the writers on. This show is at times fantastic in setting up moral quandaries and operating in the grey, but killing children in their sleep because you want to farm on the land they live on? There is no proper grey there.

 

There is this thing that has been around since dawn of mankind that man often indulges in when other people have something they need, its called trade. The Arkers have plenty of worthwhile things to trade and make, but apparently why trade when you can go into a village in the night and murder every man, woman and child?

 

Bellamy is way to far gone. It took like 1 minute with Pike for any objections from his side to fall away and off he goes to spearhead the group into massacring a village they know that have no warriors, because they butchered those warriors after they went to help them against any future Ice Nation attacks. I know his predicable redemption will drag the show massively down in my view. I seriously hope the writers wont use Monroe's death as some sort of reasoning behind Bellamy's and Pike's actions. They went into that village to murder them all. One of them being killed by a trap is not anywhere near what they deserve.

 

I feel like Bellamy's redemptions will go like; He will do his turn about in episode 8-9, have some people be seriously angry at him while he takes it, he will cry (I remember reading about invoking the man cry tends to up audience sympathy by a factor 10 or something as an (alpha) male crying translate as he is truly remorseful or something like that), spend time making sad faces at people, maybe also tortured to help some people (likely Grounders) to up sympathy, and then he will do some heroics involving helping the Grounders.

 

Also just what was Monty doing with that group? I never imagined him as someone that would go along with this. I hope we learn more about his views on all of this, because it drags his character down if he is on board with this mess and actually meant to go there to kill civilian men, women and children.

 

With the Polis name I know some people called it coming from the 13th station ages ago but got shot down. I feel trolled by the writers.

 

Aspects I enjoyed was we did learn a lot more about A.L.I.E., CoL and to certain degree the Grounder religion. The writers tied strings back even to small sentences in S1, like Anya saying it wasn't the first time they (the grounders) had fought against people from the Sky, or the two different versions of Unity Day/creation of the Ark.

 

It was so disturbing to see Jaha not remember Wells. I still think his line delivery of "I lost my son" was one of the best and most heart-wrenching in this show. CoL not only removes physical pain but also tempers with painful memories or suppresses them. The writers were so trolling with finally giving us a happy smiling Raven, while we know what is happening to her is terrible. For sure her injury is going to be much worse when she gets de-plugged from CoL and its effects, because the lack of pain causes her to not listen to her body and therefore aggravate her injury.

 

A.L.I.E.having Raven is definitely a major plus on her side. Before this seasons started I was thinking Monty and Raven would be the main team up that would be a huge threat to A.L.I.E.. Now one of the smartest minds in that area that knows a fair share about tech is in A.L.I.E.'s hands. A.L.I.E.looking for the upgraded version? That was a nice twist. It seems like her creator knew the original A.L.I.E.was flawed, and therefore created the 2.0 version.

 

This 2.0 version is definitely tied into the Grounders, and likely the nightbloods might be the code/key to this upgraded version of A.L.I.E. that I suspect is less of the destroy mankind type and probably created to counter A.L.I.E 1.0. I wonder if Becca was the first commander or then at least if she created the nightbloods. Not sure how she would do the latter since they are scattered among the various clans, but I bet Lexa's tattoos and the stuff in Titus worship chamber got a lot of answers to a lot of questions. Lexa receiving visions from the previous Commanders? It got some shades of her already being connected to something. Maybe the A.L.I.E. 2.0 is something she is tied to, which gets moved from Commander to Commander during the Conclave, and offers in a limited amount of several lives worth of experience and plants some dormant info/software.

It also gives more weight/sense why Lexa would push for peace so hard. She would have about 15? 20? Commanders life experience somewhere in her. While maybe not there as direct memories, they could still be an influence, and it would make sense after so many lives as a Commander at war in every lifetime, that she would at one point just try to halt this vicious cycle of war and death.

 

Jaha and A.L.I.E. are also interesting in the way they contrast against Pike and Bellamy. The latter strive on fear, anger and hatred and use that as their rallying cry to do and justify monstrous things. Jaha on the other hand is going about doing his business, offering to take away the pain and fear and give them happiness, just by swallowing something. While we have Kane, Miller, Abby and Octavia team up - which I am enjoying immensely - I think Jaha actually is the biggest threat to Pike and Bellamy right now. If there aren't any fear and pain for them to prey on, how can they keep pushing their agenda based on fear?

 

Lexa has committed to changing this core Grounder belief, and she doesn't go at it half-arsed. But it might be to rapid a shift vs. gradual. An age old debate with many societal values and beliefs and change. In this world it does put her rule and therefore her life at great risk. It was a good speech that laid out why she would pursue this path but I don't think many of her people care enough. They know they could destroy the Arkers, and be done with them, so they probably don't feel like having to be "the bigger person". I think Lexa must or will try to find some sort of middle ground. As it is, it looks like she gives out free passes, when I think what will happen is she will aim towards holding the main perpetrators responsible. Anything less than that would be foolish.

 

One thing I enjoy with Clarke and Lexa's interaction is that they do call each other out on their shit (in a more mature/straight forward way). Be it Lexa trying to pretend like she successfully detached herself from her feelings, or Clarke hypocrisy/double standard that often pops up in connection with her people and Abby. But they also let the other work shit out and make their own decisions, which means sometimes they listen and take the other person advice and sometimes they don't. It is a realistic dynamic that allows for character exploration and insight in an natural way that is interesting to watch.

 

I have really enjoyed how Clarke is through various interactions and plot lines, have been confronted with what happened at the Mountain. First her reputation as Wanheda, then Lexa, then meeting her mom again and choosing to own the title for the sake of her people, then coming back to Arkadia and confronted by Bellamy (though calling it a confrontation instead of Bellamy being a huge whiny prick and blaming everything on her and others might be more accurate), and in this episode it was Emerson. She has been dealing with the different sides of it and causes and effects, and been coming back into her own, healing and getting her feet back. I think we will probably by next episode have reached the point where Clarke will for good start moving forward more actively. Without a doubt the actions at Mount Weather will haunt her, but now she it won't be bearing down on her so strongly as before, and she will be more focused on moving forward and be a fully active player (arguably she started on that already in ep 4).

 

One could definitely sense Titus being displeased with Clarke throughout this episode, and that will definitely have some interesting consequences. He now has Murphy in his worship chamber, who is getting tortured for the 4th? Titus wanting information on Clarke from him definitely indicates that Titus will make some move against Clarke soon.

 

A bit random but the actress for A.L.I.E. is nailing it. She looks so impeccable and put together among all the post-apoc dress code, and her mannerism got just enough of an edge of not-quite-human that it is slightly unnerving.

 

Next episode looks to be really damn interesting. With

Indra and Octavia arriving in Polis, more info on the ALIE/Grounder connection and shit hitting the fan.

 

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

Agree with everyone -- this "blood must not have blood" thing is idiotic. I love peace as much as the next person, but, when somebody comes and kills hundreds of your people the correct response is not to say "Oh well, let's turn the other cheek." You don't have to wipe out their entire race, but you need to demand some kind of justice.

 

Yes, the grounder clans have fought each other plenty of times, I believe, and it's obvious that one clan fully wiping out another is not the only outcome of such conflicts. As recently as two episodes ago, the Ice Nation broke the peace, murdered dozens of people and tried to stage a coup and the only consequence they suffered was a death Queen. Yet all we keep hearing now is that "Blood must have blood" means you must kill everyone. Even if Lexa is stupid enough to believe this false dichotomy even though she didn't follow it in the case of the Ice Nation, there is absolutely no way a culture where warrior pride and honour are so paramount would let a bunch of war criminals (who are also regarded as oath-breakers and cowards who attack people in their sleep) not experience a very violent retaliation. No way. Come to think of it, the fact that Arkadia is holding some grounders imprisoned alone would be grounds for a retaliation. Even in our world where many countries have not been involved in war for generations now, there would be riots if a leader does nothing when hundreds of people are massacred.

 

It's lazy storytelling - if they wanted to show a less black and white situation, they could have had Clarke or Cane or somebody else wonder why Lexa couldn't have stopped the Ice Nation from killing the people from Farm Station in the first place (if indeed that happened as Pike and Hannah described it). Or maybe have Skaikru suffer more casualties because of Lexa's refusal to go on with the attack Mt. Weather.  Sure, they keep mentioning the children that were killed but under the circumstances this was clearly the right choice and not just because Clarke and Bellamy were the protagonists while the victims of their actions were peripheral characters. As it is we are left with extremely weak excuses like "But they spared Indra" or "But they didn't manage to kill that kid that Octavia saved".

[piperkat]

I find it interesting how the original 100 and "their people" are now, in my eyes, looking like the bad guys. I spent 2 seasons praying for their survival and now I wouldn't mind so much if the 12 clans just wiped 'em out.

 

This. So much. I was hoping that Pike and crew would just get wiped out at the grounder village attack. That would solve so many of the problems going on. 

Also, are there NO sane people left at Arkadia who are thinking "murdering people in their sleep is not a good thing?" Has the concept of war crimes gone away?  So many issues with the Grounders could be solved by a quick trial, bullet to the head, and handing the bodies of the Pike team over to the clans for whatever ritual they like. It's not like the Arkers have any cultural history of killing criminals, or anything like that.../sarcasm

 

Why is anyone following Pike? There is absolutely zero reason he should have won the election. He got most of his people killed before joining up with Camp Joha, then sent more of his people to Mt Weather--against advice--and got THEM killed. Then he went out and almost started a war that he would have definitely lost (dude, you DON'T have a impregnable fort or unlimited ammo). Tactically AND strategically he's absolute crap.

 

 

There is this thing that has been around since dawn of mankind that man often indulges in when other people have something they need, its called trade. The Arkers have plenty of worthwhile things to trade and make, but apparently why trade when you can go into a village in the night and murder every man, woman and child?

 

I really liked season two, but so much of the drama this season feels manufactured by removing 50 IQ points from all the protagonists. 

[Riful]

Regarding Miller and Bryan, it didn't bug me that there was no goodbye kiss with them. We seen one interaction/dialogue exchange between them so I aren't going to get up in arms yet. What bothered the shit out of me, was how the actors played the goodbye. You can make a goodbye hug very intimate, and show care in how you hold another person. But here we had that awkward "bro shoulder and back patting" straight dudebros do when they don't want to come across to "gay" in their physical interaction/affection with another straight dude. Like what was that? Would a guy ever stand and shoulder pat his girlfriend like that? It would look so dumb and awkward. But we have that with these two, instead of something softer. It was played so badly compared to what it could had been.

 

quarks You can find a time line here: http://the100.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline 

 

The first season happened over 29 days and the 2nd was over 22 days according to that time line. I think they got the time-line from the writers that posted one at one point if I remember right. I think Jason mentioned S3 will

stretch over a month (he said the specific day count but I just remember it as being near a month). I think it was in his podcast/interview thing with Eric from IGN. This also means the last 10 episodes take place over 16 or so days.

. How all of this interacts with the weather seasons are just something near impossible to figure out, as it seems like the writers didn't think of that remotely. We had snow in S2, but then did a 3 months jump to S3. The weather conditions been looking practically the same throughout all 3 seasons minus the brief glimpse of snow.

 

BookElitist The show hasn't given so much information yet. What we know is A.L.I.E. was created and she deemed that a problem she had to solve was that there was too many people. A.L.I.E. creator Becca fled to space, where she apparently finished or worked on a A.L.I.E. 2.0 version. From the dialogue we can figure out that Becca was already working on that before going into space.

 

It seems like Becca was on the 13th Station Polaris, which was in conflict with the other 12 stations. This conflict resulted in the 13th station being shot down, so the other 12 could join together and form the Ark. The existence of the 13th station was erased by the leadership at that time and a more nicer story of coming together was pushed to the forefront. We don't know the specifics of the conflict but it is likely

in the next episode we will learn more, as it involves flashbacks regarding A.L.I.E.

 

 

An escape pod from Polaris with the infinity sign landed in Grounder territory and from there on it is more so speculation what happened. We know there is religious connection to the infinity sign, and it is likely the Polaris Pod or Lexa carries the code or key to A.L.I.E. 2.0. It could be that Becca - the creator of A.L.I.E. was in the pod and integrated knowledge to fight A.L.I.E. into their society. There has definitely been some infusion of likely distorted information regarding A.L.I.E. placed into the Grounder religion. On top of that, Titus did say in episode 3x03 to Lexa that they were close to their goal. I do wonder if that relates in some way as well to A.L.I.E. and just how much do they know or if they are pawns.

 

Something interesting that might be right is someone pointed out that Lexa's helm of awe or bindi (depending on whom you ask), looks like the Ark if you do a flattened image of it to a certain degree. Could just be a weird coincidence or reaching.

 

nosleepforme If we compare screen-time to the previous seasons, Monty has actually surpassed his total S1 screen time in just these 6 episodes of S3. So this season been good for him so far, although he isn't often the driving force in the scenes he is in. Sadly that follows the pattern of S1 and S2 with him being the supportive role, but hopefully with his mother being there and the Pike plot he will become more of a focus. Lincoln is on track of having the same amount of screen time he had in S2 and same for Jasper. Screen time that was used on Maya/Cage/Dante/Tsing/Wick/Anya/Finn in S2, are going into Pike/Lexa/Titus/A.L.I.E./Emori/Roan in this season. Also Bellamy has increased by a fair share in screen time this season compared to S2 (and slightly edging over his S1 screen time by 1x06 despite him having had a flashback episode by then), and currently in the lead for most screen time (although by very little now). So there hasn't actually been any negative changes to the screen time for Monty/Lincoln/Jasper, it is either on same level or improved.

 

Edited for spoiler tags. Sorry.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Riful

[stealinghome]

Again, so many parallels to real life.....originally saying that you are just using force to "defend your turf" and suddenly using force offensively to gain land or something you need.  And there is not even so much as an eye blink of time to think about just how different a goal the two are.  Apparently its exactly the same to kill people that you thought were going to kill you, and to kill people for their land....because in the end you'll die without the land.  Its been such a seamless transition that no one even questions Pike.\

This. How many times have we seen this happen IRL? That's why, while I have problems with the way the story is being written for Bellamy specifically, on the whole I don't find it wildly unrealistic that the average Arker would be an idiot and vote in Pike. Fear-based demagoguery is, sadly, pretty historically effective in gaining support...just look at election politics right now.

[ybrik]

Not sure if this is a popular opinion but I am really enjoying this season. I haven't really had a problem with the pacing or the plot or even the motivations that I think some are having.

 

Regarding more people not having a problem with Pike. I am not surprised. Right now he is offering them a chance to be strong, to feel in control. Since they have landed the Arkers have been living in fear of the Grounders. Their alliance to this point has been them trying to make an alliance to avoid being destroyed by the Grounders. They have been making concessions and being passive to people (the Grounders) that they probably see as savages/less than. Now Pike is saying that they don't need to passive or defer to the Grounders to survive. They can survive on their own just as long as they aren't afraid to take what they want. Also I think most Arkers have never really known any of the Grounders and only know the Arkers version of how the Grounders have been attacking them since they landed and that the Grounders betrayed them at Mt. Weather. Right now they don't see the grounders as people capable of real peace so they are following a man who is offering them survival at their own terms and not the Grounders. So I have no problem with most people not opposing Pike and also we don't exactly see how they are spinning the attack on the 300. I also think that it is not surprising that we aren't seeing many opposing Pike publicly. There are too many examples in human history of this happening for it to surprise me. Also remember the strict rules they lived under on the Arc. They have kind of been brought up to follow their leaders without question.

 

I thnk Lexa not wanting to go after the Arkers right now is based on her hope for peace but I also think it is her belief in saving her people. I think Lexa did hear what Indra said about having to use guns to fight the Arkers. The Arkers don't have an unlimtited supply of weapons but they have enough to any attempt at attacking Arcadia very difficult. The Arkers in s3 are in a lot better position to fight the Grounders than they were in s2. They have a better supply of weapons from Mt. Weather along with motorized vehicles that can be deployed in fighting the Grounders. Being able to take vengence may not be possible for the Grounders at least without them using guns which is also against their traditions. So Lexa has a choice go against the tradition of blood must have blood or go against the tradition of Grounders not using guns. One has the hope for peace and the other will probably only lead to more violence and death even if they defeat the Arkers.

 

Watching the ep again I wonder if Raven remembered Finn or not because she was so non-chalant about Jasper taking his ashes.

 

Also regarding a previous post where it was asked what Abby's position is. She is the head of the medical department. The reason why the Jaha situation is referred to her is that Pike doesn't care what Jaha is doing as long as it doesn't interfere with his plans so it is up to Abby to see if there is any medical issues with what Jaha is doing.

 

Seeing different theories about the 13th stations and the connection to the Grounders and specifically the Commander and can't decide what I think. I really want to keep an open mind and see how it is explained/plays out.

 

I am intrigued with what Titus is up to and how this is going to play out with Murphy.

 

Last thought but keep seeing jokes online about the number of candle for the scenes in Polis. I almost wonder if the 100 crew got candle budget that Arrow used last season or if them no longer going back to Namba Parbat meant they had a bunch of extra candles and just gave them to the 100.

Edited February 27, 2016 by ybrik

[RCharter]

^^thank you, poster above.  I do not to anger our hot mod by quoting the entire post, but I really wasn't sure where Abby got the authority to shut Jaha down.  Makes sense.

[quarks]

 

quarks You can find a time line here: http://the100.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline 

 

The first season happened over 29 days and the 2nd was over 22 days according to that time line. I think they got the time-line from the writers that posted one at one point if I remember right. I think Jason mentioned (snip for spoilers) How all of this interacts with the weather seasons are just something near impossible to figure out, as it seems like the writers didn't think of that remotely. We had snow in S2, but then did a 3 months jump to S3. The weather conditions been looking practically the same throughout all 3 seasons minus the brief glimpse of snow.

 

 

 

Thanks for this!

 

So, basically, we can go with two assumptions here, right?

 

1. The Arkers landed in September/October. They saw snow in October/November. 80 odd days passed, so it's now probably March, and yes, they should be starting to plow for soybeans/winter wheat, so the timing is sort of ok, even if it still seems to be a bit warm. But maybe the planet's weather is still wacky from the nuclear war.  This also explains why the AI kept Murphy trapped in the bunker for so long - otherwise, he would have been out in the snow, freezing.

 

2. The Arkers landed in April/May. They saw an unexpected June snowstorm which fits in with the wacky post-nuclear winter weather. It's now sometime in September or October, and they want to plow before the ground freezes over to make the planting easier in March, especially since they think they'll be dealing with weather issues.

 

Not exactly a justification for mass-murdering an entire village, including kids, but at least it sort of explains why Pike seemed to be in a rush about it. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

Being able to take vengence may not be possible for the Grounders at least without them using guns which is also against their traditions. So Lexa has a choice go against the tradition of blood must have blood or go against the tradition of Grounders not using guns. One has the hope for peace and the other will probably only lead to more violence and death even if they defeat the Arkers.

 

But how can Lexa hope to achieve peace with an enemy who thinks her people are a bunch of savages? An enemy who openly covets their land and thinks they are bound to break any treaty because they are uncivilized scum? Short of the 12 clans moving somewhere else I really don't see how a non-violent solution can be an option under the circumstances. And last but not least, it's a political suicide. If Lexa genuinely believes there should be no retaliation for now, she should be trying to convince her people with arguments that they can understand, not with "we either kill them all or do jack squat because I suddenly forgot the wealth of other options".

 

Plus, I really don't think the Arkers' technological advantage is big enough to offset the huge disparity in numbers and combat experience. They are a few hundred people in all, IIRC. Not one of them has years of participating in combat because there wasn't much room to shoot each other on the Ark. The grounders are adept in guerrilla warfare, plus they know they have a sort of Trojan horse in Kane, Abby and some others. Overwhelming technological advantage isn't a sure bet to win even if you have stuff like aircraft and guided missiles which the Arkers do not. I mean, we just saw a bunch of villagers from a village lacking all its best warriors beat Pike's "crack team".  On a lighter note, Octavia trained with Indra for a week at most and is now somehow a proficient swordfighter and horse-rider, so I would say the grounders training methods are so much more efficient than those of the Arkers.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[ottoDbusdriver]

Last thought but keep seeing jokes online about the number of candle for the scenes in Polis. I almost wonder if the 100 crew got candle budget that Arrow used last season or if them no longer going back to Namba Parbat meant they had a bunch of extra candles and just gave them to the 100.

Not to mention what it takes to keep that Olympics-caliber cauldron burning 24x7 on the top of the Polis tower. Unless they have a natural gas line feeding it (which would beg why they aren't using something like that to light the place or power electrical generators), there is no way that fire would be blazing all the time without a team in the dozens and a constant supply of wood being hauled up to the top of that tower.

[stealinghome]

But how can Lexa hope to achieve peace with an enemy who thinks her people are a bunch of savages? An enemy who openly covets their land and thinks they are bound to break any treaty because they are uncivilized scum? Short of the 12 clans moving somewhere else I really don't see how a non-violent solution can be an option under the circumstances. And last but not least, it's a political suicide. If Lexa genuinely believes there should be no retaliation for now, she should be trying to convince her people with arguments that they can understand, not with "we either kill them all or do jack squat because I suddenly forgot the wealth of other options".

I kind of feel like Lexa is sitting back and hoping that Kane/Abby/the sane Arkers can take care of the issue without her having to get involved. Almost like an internal clan power struggle--Lexa wants to wait and see if the Arkers can sort their shit out before she has to step in. I'm sure that happens with someone frequent regularity in each Grounder tribe, so....

I mean, I don't disagree with your point, but I also think it's worth noting that from their pov, there's no time limit on when the Grounders might potentially have to go attack Arkadia. Lexa doesn't know (yet, she will next ep) that not only is Pike so crazy as to massacre an army, he will go after an entire village of families just for land. She might be thinking that it benefits her to wait and see, or that at least she loses nothing by waiting and observing. Cause either Kane/Abby/the sane people regain control and things will be better or, lbr, Pike will eventually execute them and then Lexa can take out the remaining Arkers with a relatively clean conscience.

Again, that only makes sense through next episode when Lexa'a informed of the Skaikru treachery, but I could maybe buy something like this so far as being her thought process. I do agree that it's a writing flaw that the pacing has been so breakneck that's it hasn't been laid out though. After Bellamy Lexa may actually be suffering the most from the crazy pacing.

[RCharter]

But how can Lexa hope to achieve peace with an enemy who thinks her people are a bunch of savages? An enemy who openly covets their land and thinks they are bound to break any treaty because they are uncivilized scum? Short of the 12 clans moving somewhere else I really don't see how a non-violent solution can be an option under the circumstances. And last but not least, it's a political suicide. If Lexa genuinely believes there should be no retaliation for now, she should be trying to convince her people with arguments that they can understand, not with "we either kill them all or do jack squat because I suddenly forgot the wealth of other options".

 

Plus, I really don't think the Arkers' technological advantage is big enough to offset the huge disparity in numbers and combat experience. They are a few hundred people in all, IIRC. Not one of them has years of participating in combat because there wasn't much room to shoot each other on the Ark. The grounders are adept in guerrilla warfare, plus they know they have a sort of Trojan horse in Kane, Abby and some others. Overwhelming technological advantage isn't a sure bet to win even if you have stuff like aircraft and guided missiles which the Arkers do not. I mean, we just saw a bunch of villagers from a village lacking all its best warriors beat Pike's "crack team".  On a lighter note, Octavia trained with Indra for a week at most and is now somehow a proficient swordfighter and horse-rider, so I would say the grounders training methods are so much more efficient than those of the Arkers.

How many people have bombs and drones taken out without a single loss of human life from the side that used them?  I realize the arkers don't have drones, but sometimes superior firepower can do a lot.  Perhaps the grounders can find guns, learn how to use them and what not as well, but I don't know....I read an article the other day (or maybe it was a news story) but it was talking about how so much of the war is drone technology and its more like a video game than anything else....so for some of these guys it doesn't even translate that they are taking human lives, they just see them as targets, the same way you might in a video game.

 

The grounders needed advance notice to even have a shot at beating that crack team.  And even then the arkers only lost one person to smoke inhalation.  I agree, there are certainly more grounders than arkers -- but I'm not sure that will make a huge difference.  Especially if Lexa is all "no blood" and you have discord amongst the 12 clans and no one to unite them to war.  I do think that is where King Roan may come into play to replace Lexa.

Edited February 28, 2016 by RCharter

[AnnaMayWong]

Thanks Riful.

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

How many people have bombs and drones taken out without a single loss of human life from the side that used them?

 

How many countries have been conquered with just bombs and drones? Zero. As the cliche goes, you still need boots on the ground. Plus, the Arkers have a penchant for insubordination, do not have the willingness to throw themselves into dangerous situations as the grounders and many of them are probably not even fit enough to qualify for military service (should there have been any standards other than "you can hold a gun, we will take you"). I mean, I love Monty but I would never pick him as one of a dozen people to go on a military mission. In a pitched battle firepower might be a decisive advantage, in a guerrilla campaign the Arkers will lose, IMO.

 

 

Especially if Lexa is all "no blood" and you have discord amongst the 12 clans and no one to unite them to war.

 

Nothing unites people better than a common enemy, I would argue. If Lexa is not on board with striking back, she is not long for this world (barring ridiculous plot contrivances, of course). There is a lot more discord among the Arkers - there is Kane's faction, Jaha's faction, Bellamy beginning to have doubts, etc. Of course, in theory Pike could try to play one clan against the others but he is too much of a fanatic to do that.

 

 

I kind of feel like Lexa is sitting back and hoping that Kane/Abby/the sane Arkers can take care of the issue without her having to get involved.

 

I hope you are right but even in this case it doesn't make sense to keep that plan a secret. If she is perceived as a weak leader who can be intimidated by Pike this will only make his position so much stronger. Plus, the other clans might decide to attack without her approval if they think she is not going to move a finger to counter that threat.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[RCharter]

How many countries have been conquered with just bombs and drones? Zero. As the cliche goes, you still need boots on the ground. Plus, the Arkers have a penchant for insubordination, do not have the willingness to throw themselves into dangerous situations as the grounders and many of them are probably not even fit enough to qualify for military service (should there have been any standards other than "you can hold a gun, we will take you"). I mean, I love Monty but I would never pick him as one of a dozen people to go on a military mission. In a pitched battle firepower might be a decisive advantage, in a guerrilla campaign the Arkers will lose, IMO.

 

 

Nothing unites people better than a common enemy, I would argue. If Lexa is not on board with striking back, she is not long for this world (barring ridiculous plot contrivances, of course). There is a lot more discord among the Arkers - there is Kane's faction, Jaha's faction, Bellamy beginning to have doubts, etc. Of course, in theory Pike could try to play one clan against the others but he is too much of a fanatic to do that.

 

 

To date, no one has attempted to overtake an entire country with drones, because since the advent of drone technology we have not been at war with a nation.  But given the ease with which drones have been used for targeted attacks with almost no loss of human life on the side of the people that have used the drones I think the point is still very, very valid.  "The Arkers have a penchant for insubordination" seems like a bit of an overstatement.  There are factions within the Arkers and a small resistance, that is about it.  There is no indication that Kane/Pike was a close race.  The need to throw themselves into dangerous situations decreases substantially when you have superior firepower.  And who knows what bombs there are (I believe they spoke of them at Mt. Weather).  As you said, I think the idea of "fit for military service" is not really something that applies here. And I think its likely that everyone at Arkadia that is of a certain age has had basic training with a gun.  And don't forget you had 10 people lay waste to over 300 people.  And sure, there was an idea that they were unprepared, they were sleeping, so on and so forth....but if you can easily lay waste to 300 people with 10, and not lose any people, it seems like the numbers are probably on your side.  And I think Arkers (at least the ones with Pike) feel like they are always in a dangerous situation with the grounders, so, for them, and the way Pike sells it is not "well, we can have peace or we can go to war" its "we will die if we do not go to war, and we are barely losing anyone...and anyone we do lose should remind you why we need to fight."

 

Many, many Americans supported our war in the Middle East after 911 at its inception.  No one stopped to think about how they didn't want to throw themselves into battle because there were relatively few people in the population who went to war (just on a percentage basis).  Even fewer that died in battle (again, percentages, and realizing that every life counts).   

 

We'll have to see, a sword and a horse requires you to get within range of someone.  I'm not sure how many archers they have, they mostly seem to be a people that use the sword.   And that requires proximity.  The sort of proximity a gun does not.  As far as the Arkers, wouldn't surprise me in the least if they have all had some basic weapons training because they are such a small group and there are potential enemies.  In short, I wouldn't count Monty out.  

 

You're right, nothing bonds people like a common enemy....the way Pike has bounded the Arkers against the Grounders.  I actually think there is very little discord amongst the Arkers,all things considered.  We all hope for a great amount of discord because we all hate Pike, but in reality Kane has a very small faction, maybe like 10 people?  And at the moment he is the only one directly opposing Pike.  I suspect Jaha will be a greater threat, but right now, Abby has all his stuff, and I don't know what ALIE wants from everyone so its hard to know how Jaha will play into this entire thing.   As for the 12 other clans, you're looking at 12 other groups of people, all proud, all wanting to seek the top position, all wanting to represent for "their" people.  They are clearly not always one, unified group...just look at the Ice Nation.  There is no reason to think that there may be certain factions that believe "the commander is the commander" and you do what the commander says....and other factions who don't believe that and work for Lexa's downfall.  And bear in mind, many may not want to get involved at all.  If it starts looking like all Pike wants is the land he lay claim to, there may be clans that simply want to leave him be since he is not threatening their people.  And even if all 12 clans were to agree that they wanted to go to war, who to lead them if Lexa is dead?  Are they really going to accept the person she names as her successor?  Is he going to have to fight for it?  Is he going to have the support of all of the 12 other clans?  Will someone like Prince Roan also make a move for the top spot?  I think there is much, much, much more potential for discord amongst 12 relatively independent clans.

[Izeinwinter]

Pike has fucked them on the economy alone. There is ridiculously few of them, and while there was peace, they could trade for food, and specialize in providing high tech services to the grounders - Better medicine, building better tools. That was a pretty solid proposition, long term.  

 

By declaring war to the knife, they now have to be self sufficient. And a couple hundred people can't keep the industrial infrastructure of a war machine going and also.. well, eat. Every person he moves to farming or fighting is one less person operating a lathe, swinging a hammer, or wielding a scalpel. So the war is burning human capital, and the obvious move from Lexa's point of view is to not give battle and not let him farm and just wait for the wheels to come off. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

To date, no one has attempted to overtake an entire country with drones, because since the advent of drone technology we have not been at war with a nation.  But given the ease with which drones have been used for targeted attacks with almost no loss of human life on the side of the people that have used the drones I think the point is still very, very valid.

 

There is no loss of human life because there aren't any boots on the ground. Try to actually occupy a country and you will see how loses mounting up, even against opposition with vastly inferior weaponry. And in our case the Arkers don't even have enough troops to effectively occupy even a tenth of the grounders territory, which means the enemy will always places to hide from where to strike back.

 

 

"The Arkers have a penchant for insubordination" seems like a bit of an overstatement.  There are factions within the Arkers and a small resistance, that is about it.

 

Literally every major character on the Arkers side has disobeyed orders, some have done it again and again (Octavia, Clarke, Bellamy, Raven, the list goes on). Abby and Kane seemed more willing to give orders when they weren't technically in charge.  Pike staged a coup right before he was elected, does that sound like a society that respects authority all that much?

 

 

The need to throw themselves into dangerous situations decreases substantially when you have superior firepower.

 

Only if this superior firepower is missiles, aircraft and so on. Holding a gun doesn't make you any more protected from arrows than holding a sword. There would be many more people willing to push the button for a drone strike than willing to actually go into the woods or a town filled with grounders ready to ambush them.

 

 

And don't forget you had 10 people lay waste to over 300 people.  And sure, there was an idea that they were unprepared, they were sleeping, so on and so forth....but if you can easily lay waste to 300 people with 10, and not lose any people, it seems like the numbers are probably on your side

 

Pre-emptive strikes and other types surprise attacks tend to have a really skewed casualty ratio even if there is no technological disparity between the belligerents. They aren't really indicative of what happens when both sides are prepared to fight. Otherwise, we might as well claim that the Ice Nation alone should be able to wipe out all Arkers without any problems since the one assassin they sent killed dozens of them at Mt Weather.

 

 

Many, many Americans supported our war in the Middle East after 911 at its inception.  No one stopped to think about how they didn't want to throw themselves into battle because there were relatively few people in the population who went to war (just on a percentage basis).  Even fewer that died in battle (again, percentages, and realizing that every life counts).

 

Well, yes. It's one thing to vote for a war that you feel quite sure is never going to involve you having to fight. The Arkers don't have that luxury because there are too few of them. Which is one of the reason I found Pike's quick rise to the top implausible, as much as I am willing to believe people do stupid things when driven by fear.

 

 

You're right, nothing bonds people like a common enemy....the way Pike has bounded the Arkers against the Grounders.

 

But he hasn't, even his right hand Bellamy is beginning to doubt Pike's leadership. And in any event, the Arkers have been united for almost a century. Lexa's confederation is much newer and needs external enemies as a raison d'etre much more. As I said, if Pike were not a xenophobic moron, I could see him playing one clan against the other but as it is, all it would take is sending an emissary to them for the clan leaders to realise he thinks all grounders are scum that needs to be wiped out. Plus, dishonourable attacks are a huge deal in warrior cultures, no clan leader would like to be seen as the ally of a guy who sends people with guns to wipe out supposedly undefended villages in the middle of the night or attacks his allies by slaughtering them in their sleep. And who wanted to use Mt. Weather of all places as a base (assuming they know about that). They might as well depose and murder Lexa (hoping not!) but whoever takes over is not going to forgive and forget.

 

 

By declaring war to the knife, they now have to be self sufficient. And a couple hundred people can't keep the industrial infrastructure of a war machine going and also.. well, eat. Every person he moves to farming or fighting is one less person operating a lathe, swinging a hammer, or wielding a scalpel. So the war is burning human capital, and the obvious move from Lexa's point of view is to not give battle and not let him farm and just wait for the wheels to come off.

 

Yes, the grounders could simply burn the Arkers' crops, or even better, poison them and enjoy the show. Scorched earth is an obvious strategy to use against an enemy with food supply problems and who would have an advantage in pitched battles.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[RCharter]

Pike has fucked them on the economy alone. There is ridiculously few of them, and while there was peace, they could trade for food, and specialize in providing high tech services to the grounders - Better medicine, building better tools. That was a pretty solid proposition, long term.  

 

By declaring war to the knife, they now have to be self sufficient. And a couple hundred people can't keep the industrial infrastructure of a war machine going and also.. well, eat. Every person he moves to farming or fighting is one less person operating a lathe, swinging a hammer, or wielding a scalpel. So the war is burning human capital, and the obvious move from Lexa's point of view is to not give battle and not let him farm and just wait for the wheels to come off. 

Oh, don't for a nanosecond think that Pike isn't going to put those in the "interment" camps to work doing those menial tasks.  Because, really, shouldn't they be "pulling their weight" since the Arkers are feeding them? And if the 100 really wants to make a point, he will have them working at gunpoint or in chains (if thats the point they choose to make).  He was royally screwed because the grounders ruined the land.  Besides, from Pike POV (much like in real life) this is also quite personal.  He hates grounders, he wouldn't be thinking straight about how to deal with grounders, the man wants his vengeance, no matter how he will try to explain to himself and to others that these things are all necessary evils.  And for Pike to get any power he needed to take a stand counter to Kane.  Some small faction of the grounders blowing up Mt. Weather (parallel!) gave him his excuse.

 

What you say is absolutely a solid and logical proposition.  Pike isn't a solid and logical man. Thus far, for every campaign Pike has brought maybe 20 people?  He said they have enough food to eat for another year, right?  And I'm sure if they run out of food, they would have no problem just stealing it from someone else, or trying to take over their crops/land.  Or just killing them so they can have their food.  I think Lexa would be foolish to ignore Pike, because I think, before you know it, he can overtake the land of others.  He can either kill everyone, or he can "absorb" them as prisoners.  I think ignoring Pike will only lead Lexa to trouble.  But there is so much that can go wrong for her either way.

[RCharter]

There is no loss of human life because there aren't any boots on the ground. Try to actually occupy a country and you will see how loses mounting up, even against opposition with vastly inferior weaponry. And in our cases the Arkers don't even have enough troops to effectively occupy even a tenth of the grounders territory.

 

Well yes, thats the point, with drones there aren't any boots on the ground and it has made war much less of a risky proposition.  When you have superior firepower war becomes less of a risky proposition, because you'll lose far fewer people.  Even in our current conflict, with ground forces as occupiers, and not with the same bloodthirsty agenda as Pike you've seen relatively few losses (relatively).  If you're content to raze the ground, kill children and salt the earth I think it becomes much easier to be an occupier because you don't have to ask questions.  They don't want all of the grounders territory right now, they just want x amount of it.  And as the Arkers grow, as new Arkers are born the mandate will be to push forward.  At this point they only wanted the land from a village for its arable soil.  So would there be enough Arkers to control all the territory of the grounders...no.  Would there be enough for Arkers to control a small village, probably.

 

The major characters on the 100 don't represent the majority of people.  The fact that five people have broken orders is hardly proof that everyone on the Ark is prone to rule breaking.  I think that is a very big stretch.  

 

A gun is going to have much more of a range, and for most, more accuracy than an arrow.  While a gun will not protect you from an arrow, a high powered gun may have a much further range and the ability to fire off more bullets than an arrow that has to be reloaded every time. And this is assuming everyone has a bow and arrow, which isn't the impression that I get.  If the situation presented to you is that you have been able to take out an entire village of 300 with 10 people and not lose a single one.....its not going to look that risky.  Even the loss of one solider is probably not going to do much.....especially when the only other option is presented is certain death.  Which is how Pike has put it.  Either very, very few losses now, or certain death with no fight.

 

While your point may be correct about a pre-emptive strike, there was a team of archers that should have been ready for attack and were easily taken out.  The archers were patrolling and were taken out in pretty short order.  I think comparing Ice Nation blowing up Mt. Weather to that attack is a little like apples and oranges, because in that situation there was one massive weapon that could take out the entire building.  A weapon that the grounders neither developed or knew much about other than the code given to them by that guy.  With the attack on the 300, there were significantly more people, using a weapon they can use again, and again, and again.  A weapon that they control. Because the grounders didn't develop the weapon that took out Mt. Weather, there is no real chance of them using it again.  But a gun is a different story as it can be used over...and over....and over.  There is literally no way that the Arkers get surprised that way again, because the grounders don't have another weapon of that magnitude to detonate.  But, while the Grounders may be more careful in the future, there is still a chance for them to be caught off guard.  In fact, the village that they were getting ready to attack knew about the Arkers attack on the 300 and they would still have been caught off guard with the exact same plan of attack had it not been for Octavia's warning.

 

 

I haven't seen Bellamy show much, if any doubt, in Pike's leadership.  The only thing he is questioning is how to save Octavia since Pike is onto the fact that she is the one that helped out.  And "doubt" is hardly the same as turning into the opposition.  I don't see how the fact that Lexa's confederation being newer makes it any more likely for them to be in agreement on anything?  Pike doesn't need to do anything with the 12 clans because there is a good chance they will tear each other apart, they are constantly on the verge of infighting and Lexa's advisers know that she holds the crown by a hair.  First she had that guy that she had to kick out of the building, then she had the Ice Queen and Prince Roan.  Pike faces two potential groups to oppose him.  There is Kane, who has nearly no one.  And there is Jaha, who hasn't shown any indication that he plans to go against Pike at this point.  Lexa faces 11 clans that actively have their own thoughts, their own opinions and their own interests to protect.  There will be some that want to go to war, and some that are perfectly fine not going to war because their people aren't in danger at the present moment.  None of the clans would be Pike's ally, they would simply agree that Lexa is the boss and we should be following Lexa (aka - my people aren't in danger so.....). I don't think anyone in Lexa's position will have the full support of the 12 clans.  Each clan represents their own interest, as did ice nation.  Just even agreeing who will be the next leader will involve a bunch of infighting.  Is it going to be the kid that Lexa chose?  Prince Roan?  Someone from another tribe?  That girl the Ice Queen chose?  Whichever tribe the next leader comes from will have a massive amount of power, and deciding who that will be if Lexa dies could turn into an epic fight in and of itself.  So, I don't see where this idea that the grounders have less infighting than the Arkers comes from, because I don't see it.

 

The grounders could try that, although I imagine the Arkers would build a wall around their crops with guards to protect them.  I guess they could poison the water supply, but its likely the same water supply for other villages.

Edited February 28, 2016 by RCharter

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

The major characters on the 100 don't represent the majority of people.  The fact that five people have broken orders is hardly proof that everyone on the Ark is prone to rule breaking.  I think that is a very big stretch.

 

i never said that everyone is prone to rule breaking. I am saying that while on paper the Ark was a dictatorship with tight discipline, in reality we have seen the rules being broken left, right and centre both on the Ark and on Earth. What's the Arkers chain of command? This is probably lousy writing than anything but they just seem to pick whoever happens to be nearby when they go on these anti-grounder expeditions. In the last episode Monty, predictably, decided to take a chance and try to go back to save Monroe, even though the order was to pull out of the smoke ASAP. That's the lack of discipline I'm referring - which is to be expected under the circumstances, of course, but a lack of discipline is really not something you want against overwhelming enemy numbers.

 

 

While your point may be correct about a pre-emptive strike, there was a team of archers that should have been ready for attack and were easily taken out.  The archers were patrolling and were taken out in pretty short order.

 

The archers were expecting the attack to come from the other direction. Which, admittedly, makes precious little sense (as I complained at length in the 3.05. thread) but the point is it's not a situation that is going to repeat itself any time soon.

 

 

In fact, the village that they were getting ready to attack knew about the Arkers attack on the 300 and they would still have been caught off guard with the exact same plan of attack had it not been for Octavia's warning.

 

Says who? The jeep would have woken them up even if Octavia had done nothing. And in any event, a village deprived of all the people considered fit for military service being caught unawares doesn't mean that an army would be caught too.

 

 

Lexa faces 11 clans that actively have their own thoughts, their own opinions and their own interests to protect.  There will be some that want to go to war, and some that are perfectly fine not going to war because their people aren't in danger at the present moment.

 

The clans who lands weren't near Mt Weather must have been quite safe from it, yet they still participated in the attack against the Mountain Men. Why wouldn't they do it again against a force who is actively trying to expand and is lacking Mt. Weather's most dangerous technologies - the missiles, the acid fog, the fortified doors and tunnels? Pike doesn't have the brains or the inclination to exploit the divisions among the grounders clan, in fact his actions make it easier than ever for them to unit against him, should Lexa decide to pull her head out of her ass. He is practically shouting from the rooftops that either the Arkers or the grounders can survive and there is no room for co-existence. This can make people rally behind even odious rulers like Stalin.

 

Kane's faction might be small in number but if the situation becomes desperate enough, all they need to do is let some grounders inside the camp. In close quarters combat and with surprise on the grounders' side, defeating the people loyal to Pike would be simple enough, IMO. Or at least inflicting enough casualties that Pike's dreams of conquest become a pipe dream. Or they can sabotage the guns, or steal some guns and join the grounders, evening the odds, etc. We have already seen Mt. Weather fall because some of the people inside were sympathetic to the enemy, there really don't need to be many of them to turn the tables completely.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[kdm07]

I'm with those who think Pike's strategy is incredibly short-sighted. The Arkers just don't have enough people to be able to wipe out the Grounders. Look at when they were testing the water earlier in this episode, they were completely surrounded by forests. All the Grounders would have to do is stake out the area around Arcadia, stay hidden in the trees and pick them off one by one and at the same time, poison the land surrounding Arcadia which would essentially starve them out. The only way the Arkers were able to kill 300 Grounders was because they ambushed them while they were sleeping. I have a funny feeling that they won't be able to do that again.

[Aeryn13]

Sheesh, in the first half of Season 1 I couldn`t stand the Bellamy character, then surprisingly he became one of my favourites and had a good development, if limited screentime, in Season 2. So why the hell is he now doing an Anakin Skywalker impression to Emperor Pike in the weakest storyline of Season 3? Why? At that was missing was Pike whispering evilly in an opera house. Meanwhile Bellamy`s questions show that he at least has an understanding how wrong they are being. This is frustrating.

 

I thought Finn`s psychotic break storyline was weak but it had more internal logic than that. And murdering 300 people in their sleep was ridiculously evil for a show dealing in shades of grey.   

 

Pike`s strategy is incredibly short-sighted. You could at least scout for better land. Maybe settle on the island with the fancy mansion or something. That seemed undistured by grounders and, as an island, is easier to defend. You even have a sea-monster wall protecting you.

 

Lexa is politically savvy but idealistic enough that she can be swayed by lofty ideas. I don`t think the people et al are ready for those, pragmatism still rules and even the most charismatic leader can`t overcome that.

 

Clarke almost failing the vengeance test here was silly to me. She actually believed her "this is different" protestations for most of the episode? No, it isn`t. You wanna introduce the concept of turning the other cheek and then need to be convinced to implement it yourself? Oy. She has some good ideas but is less politically savvy. For example, she made deals for the Arkers with the best of intentions but had no idea about the political climate back home. That was too much assumption going on.

 

Finally the Jaha/blue pill/city of light storyline converge with the Grounders story. That makes both more interesting.