The Twelfth Doctor: Let's Not Argue About Numbers

[sevans623]

So I'm just wondering if anyone else had seen the picture of Peter Capaldi's costume (lhttp://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/peter-capaldi-doctor-who-costume-bbc.jpg)?  I'm not a fan of it at all.  After Converse and Bow Ties, the most noticeable thing is the lining of the jacket and those shined up version of Frankenstein boots.  Am I the only one who hates it?  I may be projecting my fear of a new Doctor onto the clothes.  

[Chip]

I don't hate it. A lot of the comments about it I have seen are comparing it to a magician and reminiscent of Jon Pertwee's Doctor.  I was a big fan of the Converse, but it will be nice to see how something a bit more grown up goes over.

[Lisin]

I quite like it. I love that the boots are a very specific boot. They're Loake "Black Smooth Leather Brogue" Boots. I love that they're Loake's because they're great shoes and I'm happy he's wearing them. They're all still handmade in England and not all farmed out to other inferior factories. Aside from my clear shoe obsession I also think he looks great. I like that we're getting a more grown up Doctor and I think he looks quite dapper. My only complaint is his pleated pants. I hate pleats. 

Edited February 4, 2014 by Lisin

[sevans623]

I do appreciate that it is a drastic change from Smith, and sets us up for the possibility of something less silly.  Lisin, good info on the boots, I still just don't think I like the shine to them, and how large they seem in comparison to his legs.  The long collar, no tie look bothers me more than the pleats, but maybe because they are so scrunched at the bottom that the pleats aren't as noticeable to me.  Who knows though, he'll probably make this look just as classic, and in a year's time I'll be singing the praises of "Frankenstein" boots and long collared shirts.  

[Saint TV]

I think it makes him look sexy. He would be sexier without the pleats.

[Vikitty]

I think the costume will look better in motion.

[BizBuzz]

The pleats lost me as well, but I find that I am taken with the costume. Love the red lining...

[HauntedBathroom]

It's hard to tell from photos, but I think I like it. Plus, even the location snaps of Capaldi striding around with a coffee cup in his hand makes it look a lot less like a costume, and more like clothes.

[Aunty Sharon]

I love it.  I'm also a bit worried that he's going to be the first Doctor I'm going to have *ahem* feelings for.  

 

I've been a Who fan for most of life and that's not quite right for my inner 7 year old....

[HauntedBathroom]

It's not right to fancy the Doctor. Thankfully, for me as soon as they get the gig, all actors are moved into asexual territory.

[TooMuchCoffee]

I think the costume makes sense for a Doctor that is a bit older and more in the classic vein. Even though I'm an older person, I've gotten used to a youthful Doctor.  I'm still warming up to the idea of Capaldi and I enjoy classic Who. 

[daisycat]

Meh. I'm not a fan of this outfit. Does absolutely nothing for me - it doesn't really have anything distinctive that reaches out and grabs you.

I am beyond thrilled to see what Capaldi will do with the role.

[FormerMod-a1]

The only thing I don't like about the costume in the pants seem sloppy or ill-fitted or something.

[Meredith Quill]

I like the look; the Doc Martens boots, (which are owned/manufactured by the Griggs family of Northamptonshire, England, my old stomping ground incidentally) give him a very 'will take no shit' aura, as they were the footwear of choice for punks/skinheads in their heyday . The crombie type overcoat is very reminiscent of the whole British 'mod' look which I also liked.

 

Wonder if he'll have a scooter too? :p

[Kalliste]

I like it, I especially like his coat.. although I'm wondering if it's just the photo or if his pants are actually like that.. they seem loose at the top and tight at the ankles.. it is an odd look.

 

I quite like his shiny boots. I can't wait to see how he goes and how he (hopefully) improves Clara.

[goodbyeglittergirl]

BBC1 teaser trailer today says that the new season kicks off in AUGUST! I was totally prepared for Nov so that's thrilling! Hope BBCA airs them on the same day as BBC1.

[Meredith Quill]

OMG August Woot!!! :D

[BizBuzz]

I just squealed like a little girl!

[Kromm]

BBC1 teaser trailer today says that the new season kicks off in AUGUST! I was totally prepared for Nov so that's thrilling! Hope BBCA airs them on the same day as BBC1.

In a way I'm actually slightly alarmed about it being moved up so much.  It gives me a weird sense of pressure, perhaps, having been put on the showrunners and talent to get the gravy train running.

 

At the very least I'm assuming this will be a split season, so who knows how many episodes will actually be coming in August.

[Meredith Quill]

Last I heard/read, there is no split in season 8 according to Moffat & co (although he has been known to be economical with the truth at times to say the least). I'm not worried about the show & cast having been put under pressure; how long has it been since (said gravy train) had a full straight season with no messing about? If it was solely down to pressure from the beeb or another interested party, then I'm positive that all the previous messing around wouldn't have been tolerated for as long as it was. Plus I don't consider what must be approx 8 months rushing things exactly, GoT manages to produce a season in 8-9 months approx.

[Amelia]

Someone on tumblr pointed out that Capaldi's coat is eerily similar to the Master's coat, dark with the red lining. I didn't think of that until it was pointed out, but now looking at it again, I wonder if it's supposed to evoke that memory or if it's just a coincidence. I highly doubt they're going to be all "zomg twelve is now the MASTER" but I just found it kind of interesting that of all the costume choices, they picked the one that is reminiscent of a villain. 

[OakGoblinFly]

BBC1 teaser trailer today says that the new season kicks off in AUGUST! I was totally prepared for Nov so that's thrilling! Hope BBCA airs them on the same day as BBC1.

 

 

Official air date is August 23.

[StillNotGinger]

PLEASE LOSE THE PLEATS! Gah! Otherwise, I love the costume. I think it's going to look great in motion. 

 

I am so psyched for Capaldi's Doctor. I love that he's such a fan boy, and he's a fantastic actor. I only wish he could swear on Doctor Who like he did in In The Loop.

 

If you haven't seen this video yet, check it out. I've watched it several times. It's a delight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HixTU1GUoQM

[Namarie]

Looking forward to seeing how Twelve settles into himself, if that makes sense. What we've seen so far is very promising. Also, Attack Eyebrows - hee.

[darkestboy]

A great start for Peter Capaldi.

 

I'm sold on him.

[ganesh]

I was over "Twelve is old!" about 30 seconds into the episode, so I hope there's no more of that. I do like how PC is playing Twelve as *alien*, which I'm sure TPTBs came up with. I like how PC is playing that out and I hope it continues. I also liked how PC projected a sense of weariness, which makes sense to me since Eleven lived a long long time and spent the last several hundred (?) years fighting on Trenzalore. 

 

I've been over the Companion/Doctor flirtiness since Rose and Ten, which is why I liked Donna so much. It looks like we're getting back to that. 

[BizBuzz]

I found it interesting that my daughter (14) said that she loved Capaldi's dark and hurting side.  She said it reminds her of Nine.  She ended up saying, Twelve is Nine, just with a Scottish accent and older. 

[taanja]

oy! I am watching Outlander and Doctor Who and they are all speaking with thick Scottish brogues! Even CC has trouble understanding what is being said. HaHa!

[Captanne]

Capaldi in anything but Children of Earth?  (Because CoE sucked like a Hoover.)  

 

FAB.

 

I've been in crush with him since I first saw him in one of my All Time Ever favourite movies, "Local Hero."  If you haven't seen it, it's a light hearted comedy set in Northern Scotland on the coast.  It's a beautiful little film and he's young and adorable.

[j5cochran]

I've been in crush with him since I first saw him in one of my All Time Ever favourite movies, "Local Hero."  If you haven't seen it, it's a light hearted comedy set in Northern Scotland on the coast.  It's a beautiful little film and he's young and adorable.

 

I adore that movie, and adore Capaldi as Danny. He's such a dork of a character, in love with a marine researcher who can't see him or anything but her obsession with the sea.  And there's Urquhart the innkeeper et al., and Victor the Russian, and Trudi -- oh, poor, sweet Trudi!

[Captanne]

Dancing on the bed, "We're gonna be rich!  We're gonna sell this hotel!"

 

And, of course, a main meal of lapin.  Oh, Trudi!

 

(If you love Capaldi -- see "Crow Road".  The BBC dramatization of Iain Banks' novel.  Amazing to see him as a "ghost" on a motorcycle.)

[April Bloodgate]

Watching the world tour special, and PC keeps referring to the character as "Doctor Who." It's driving me crazy. You don't call him "Doctor Who", you just call him "The Doctor" or "Doctor". Grrr...

[SistaLadybug]

Watching the world tour special, and PC keeps referring to the character as "Doctor Who." It's driving me crazy. You don't call him "Doctor Who", you just call him "The Doctor" or "Doctor". Grrr...

That drives me crazy, too, especially since it's been noted that Capaldi is a fan of "Doctor Who".  If that's so, he should know to call the character "The Doctor"!

[angora]

He's a fan from the old days, though, and a lot of people used to call him that.  On the Doctors Revisited specials, a number of the actors from the One-Four era referred to him as Doctor Who.  Some of the stories in the classic series annuals call him that, too - sometimes even Dr. Who!

[SistaLadybug]

He's a fan from the old days, though, and a lot of people used to call him that.  On the Doctors Revisited specials, a number of the actors from the One-Four era referred to him as Doctor Who.  Some of the stories in the classic series annuals call him that, too - sometimes even Dr. Who!

Ah.  That's good information and makes me feel better about it - lol.  Thank you!

[ganesh]

In a behind the scenes special for 8x01, even Moffat called Capaldi "Doctor Who."

[alias1]

I didn't mind Capaldi saying Doctor Who because I love the Scottish way he says it, with accent on the Who.  And you can tell he's just so happy to be this character.

Edited September 5, 2014 by SierraMist

[Llywela]

It's completely normal and perfectly okay to call the character 'Doctor Who' - he was credited as such throughout most of the classic era, it's what we all called him when I was growing up. Capaldi has been a fan of the show since 1963. He gets to refer to the character with the name by which he knew him growing up if he wants to.

[polyhymnia]

I found it interesting that my daughter (14) said that she loved Capaldi's dark and hurting side.  She said it reminds her of Nine.  She ended up saying, Twelve is Nine, just with a Scottish accent and older. 

 

My daughter (13) also thinks he is a lot like Nine.  She has only watched New Who.  Husband and I think Four plus Nine with a little bit of some of the others thrown in so I like that he is capturing those different elements.  Storyline hasn't come together quite yet but I like him so far.

[BizBuzz]

My daughter (13) also thinks he is a lot like Nine.  She has only watched New Who.  Husband and I think Four plus Nine with a little bit of some of the others thrown in so I like that he is capturing those different elements.  Storyline hasn't come together quite yet but I like him so far.

 

I think that is incredibly interesting how your daughter thinks he is like Nine too!  It's so fun to watch it through the kids eyes.  My daughter and her two friends that like DW were so against an old Doctor when they made the announcement, but just three episodes in, they have totally forgotten all about PC being old, and they are just loving him to pieces.

 

Hmmm...

[Lyndy]

A few episodes in, I think I'm on board with this Doctor. Really hated the Robin Hood episode though and I think it's because I don't like seeing this Doctor do silly throw away stuff. I think I'd rather just see him in dark, creepy stories. It's not that I don't think he can do silly. He's very good at it. It's just that the stupid Robin Hood caricature and his overacting and hollow laugh just seemed off when matched with this Doctor. I absolutely can't provide a reasoned argument for this so don't ask me for one. I just want intrigue and mystery with some creepy villains. Don't introduce him to PT Barnum or some shit.

[crowsworks]

I was watching movie favorite Laura and was struck by the resemblance of PC to Clifton Webb.

[elle]

It is unfortunate that we don't get to see more of the few glimpses of Twelve being anything but grumpy.  The scenes that stand out to me range from the simple joking Capaldi "no, no hugs"; to the scenes with the schoolgirl Courtney.

[Llywela]

It is unfortunate that we don't get to see more of the few glimpses of Twelve being anything but grumpy.  The scenes that stand out to me range from the simple joking Capaldi "no, no hugs"; to the scenes with the schoolgirl Courtney.

I think this is the real problem. We should be peeling back the layers to reveal deeper aspects of the character by now, but we aren't - I suspect either because the seasonal arc demands him not to develop yet, or because someone thinks it'll be funnier to keep him one-note. It's a huge shame, and damaging to the character, because it prevents us getting to know him beyond a superficial level - and that superficial level holds us at arm's length. Yet there are these tantalising flashes of what might be.

[Dust Bunny]

Not sure where to put this, but here goes.

 

I was so sure after "The Day of the Doctor" and "The Time of the Doctor" that one of 12's overarching themes would be seeking out and bringing back Gallifrey. We haven't seen anything about that, and it kind of bums me out. I think it would have been a really unique storyline.

 

I was hoping the Missy/Promised Land stuff might be related to Gallifrey, but I increasingly doubt that.

[elle]

2b) Perkins is entirely a creation of the Doctor's subconscious.  Perhaps relating to the theory that this regeneration is 'damaged' due to the extra cycle of lives -- he is dis-integrating, thus his conversation with 4; he is starting to 'split' into his variant selves.  Perkins is an embodiment of this split while not representing a specific incarnation.  Perhaps a 'split' would eventually lead to the creation of the Valeyard -- getting rid of all his negative energy (because he is a particularly nasty doctor), and thus healing the 'split' and continuing on into a normal life cycle.  

 

In either case, I suspect the Doctor knows something is up with Perkins.  Upon rewatch, the end scene did not appear as a sincere invitation to a beloved new companion.  It looked like the Doctor was suspicious, and was testing him out to see what he would say.  

It is interesting for me to learn of this Valeyard character.  First of all, to learn that there was a precedence set that the regenerations could go past 12 .

 

This quote is intriguing in light of how Twelve is being developed:

"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor – even you. The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say you do not improve with age."

The Master to the Sixth Doctor, The Trial of a Time Lord: The Ultimate Foe

 

I also had not known that it was *Rassilon* who had set the limit of regeneration for the Doctor.  (I would happily see Timothy Dalton again!)

 

Didn't we see a dark side of Eleven in the episode as the Dream Lord? I thought it was implied then that it was the Doctor himself projecting this shadow, could it have been the Valeyard?

 

While I do not want an "eeevil" doctor, I would consider it a daring take on his history if the series does make this turn.

[Llywela]

It is interesting for me to learn of this Valeyard character.  First of all, to learn that there was a precedence set that the regenerations could go past 12

I also had not known that it was *Rassilon* who had set the limit of regeneration for the Doctor.  (I would happily see Timothy Dalton again!)

Didn't we see a dark side of Eleven in the episode as the Dream Lord? I thought it was implied then that it was the Doctor himself projecting this shadow, could it have been the Valeyard?

While I do not want an "eeevil" doctor, I would consider it a daring take on his history if the series does make this turn.

It wasn't the Valeyard who set the precedent that regenerations could go past 12 - I believe it was in The Five Doctors, when the Time Lord Council offered the Master a new regenerative cycle that that first became a possibility. The Valeyard isn't a natural incarnation of the Doctor - it isn't a regeneration. According to the Master: "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you. The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation." Now, the logic driving Trial of a Time Lord is often hazy, but this tells us that the Valeyard is not one of the Doctor's regenerations, but something pulled out of him artificially and given physical form - just like the Dream Lord. It seems safe to say that the Master had a hand in that, since he seems to know so much about it. And there is precedent for such a manifestation - in Logopolis, the 4th Doctor is haunted by a strange being called the Watcher, which turns out to be a partial manifestation of his future self and merges with him during his regeneration.

 

I don't think Rassilon set the regeneration limit for the Doctor. The limit was set for all Time Lords, because Rassilon knew that immortality was a curse.

[ketose]

One of the things I tend to forget about is that Peter Capaldi is his role in the third season of Torchwood. I have a substantial mental block over seasons 3 and 4, but even before I knew who Capaldi was, I found his portrayal of Frobisher absolutely haunting. It's how I know he has the chops to play the Twelfth Doctor even given the material.

[elle]

 

Now, the logic driving Trial of a Time Lord is often hazy, but this tells us that the Valeyard is not one of the Doctor's regenerations, but something pulled out of him artificially and given physical form

Thanks for explaining this for me, Llywela!  I can only hope that some writer is bold enough to bring up this character.

 

Has anyone here seen the latest Capital One Cash Back card commercial with Samuel L. Jackson?  He is wearing a dark fuchsia vest/sweater paired with matching pants topped by a dark plaid topcoat.  He has the glasses already.  I'd love to hear reactions of other people, I won't say of who (whom) I thought because it is pretty obvious (and it would have been sooo cool if he had been asked and said yes).  If I can find a photo, I will add it.

[elle]

Still haven't found that photo...

 

This is a quote from the preview BBCA ran for "Dark Water".

“Sorry everyone, another ranting Scotsman in the street, I had no idea there was a match on!

In brings up something that has bothered me for some time.  Why is Twelve Scottish or at the very least sounds like someone from Scotland.  Putting aside, the whole "Capaldi is" answer, making the Doctor, an alien from a different place, sound like someone from a specific place on Earth never made sense to me.  I've heard the theory that it was because Eleven was so fond of Amy that he took on the accent.  Okay, then why didn't the Doctor do the same thing after spending so much time with Jaime?  Ten even uses his name in "Tooth and Claw" as the alias Doctor James McCrimmon together with a Scottish accent.