S04.E15: Taken

[EmeraldArcher]

What made this episode worth watching live:

1. Oliver losing his mayoral candidacy

2. Oliver losing the spawn

3. Oliver losing Felicity

And:

4. The long list of people who knew about the spawn was a clear indictment against Oliver

5. BM continued to be a horrible human being--no empathy for Oliver calling off his candidacy

6. Thea blasting Malcolm and remembering Robert

7. Oliver calling himself the spawn's "biological father"

8. Speedy's back-bending arrow shot from a motorcycle

9. Felicity not needing to continue funding Oliver's campaign after the breakup

I guess I didn't mind the episode as much as others. What saved it for me was how Oliver LOST EVERYTHING because of his own stupidity and lying. What truly makes me sad is that I've spent years cheering him on and wanting him to be happy (4x01 was GLORIOUS), and now I laugh at his pain. Either the show has totally gone off course, or I'm Slade Wilson.

[Chaser]

I checked out. So did DD get depowered or arrested?

This episode was weird. SA was sleepwalking till the video.

BM was the only one who pointed out it wasn't cool that Felicity was lied too. Irony.

Vixen was cool.

[Lantern7]

Forgot about Oliver suspending his campaign. Is Ruve going to get the automatic win, while her husband rots totem-less in a cell?

 

The only thing missing from the Ollie/Diggle conversation: "How many tracking implants have you put in Sara?" "It's going to be five this weekend."

[BkWurm1]

Wow. That was painful. Oliver's lucky Felicity didn't lose a shoe putting her foot up his ass. Yeah, Samantha was being a tad unreasonable in her conditions, but Ollie keeps making the wrong calls. How much you want to bet Felicity gives Barry a call? He's coming off a breakup, they had good chemistry, and homeboy can get to Star City in a hurry.

 

My head canon puts last night's Flash episode after this one so in my world Felicity is avoiding Barry's calls cause she's kind of pissed at him too. 

 

 

So I'm watching Black-ish, first time ever but they are doing a really powerful story on race relations in modern society. I recommend it. It's really nicely done so far... I feel like I am getting back the brain cells Arrow killed tonight.

 

I watch the whole line up of ABC comedies every Wednesday as my antidote to the crap Arrow puts me through.  Black-ish is consistently well done and funny.

 

Felicity's like: I leave you with your tears, my ring, and also this wheelchair. Peace.

 

Haha, what a mess. Sure, Felicity, he should have told you, but you lost me with the whole, you didn't include me on the decision to send William away. Why would he, Felicity? William's not your kid. It has literally nothing to do with you, even in the vague I'm-dating-the-dad way. He's not your kid. Did you include Oliver when you decided to help out Laurel and Diggle? I realize marriage wasn't on the table then but you were still in a relationship.

Felicity wasn't looking to have the deciding vote, she was looking to be included in the discussion and needed for Oliver to treat her like his partner, someone he would turn to when life gets confusing. Otherwise there will always be an imbalance if she's coming to him and relying on him, but he's not trusting her enough to rely on her to be there for him.     

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, I don't think she wanted it a joint decision. It seemed more like she wanted him to let her in and keep her informed. Even the most forgiving person would be WTF at Oliver's inability to be open and honest. He rescues his kid and decides to not see him until he turns 18. Any rational person would want to talk about that with their significant other. Bounce off ideas, let out frustration, etc. But not Oliver. Apparently. 

 

Yeah, to be honest, I kind of appreciated having the additional insult of Oliver continuing to exclude Felicity from the William stuff, even after she learned, because I think that's a deeper and more interesting thing for her to be upset about than just the initial lie. And it did feel in-character to me. Oliver was walking around on eggshells with her the whole episode after she learned, and while I didn't like it or find it affecting from an emotional standpoint, the fact that he knew she was upset and just immediately withdrew is very Oliver to me. And that breakup scene was TERRIBLE and terribly underwhelming, but at least the reasoning behind the breakup is very solid, to me.

 

In repeating the (bad) dialogue earlier in the episode, they left out the line about how telling her should have been a relief, not a burden, but that's the one piece of that conversation I felt rang true. And that's basically what she was saying in the end. He lied to her about William, lied some more, and then kept her at arms-length from a hugely important thing he was struggling with even after the truth had been revealed. That is cause for concern. Wish the writing, direction, and performances had sold the emotion and import of that better, but alas.

[Guest]

I checked out. So did DD get depowered or arrested?

 

Both. We saw him get de-powered but we didn't see him get arrested.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Guest

[catrox14]

You know what's sad. Oliver is becoming more like Robert every day with the lying :(. I suppose that's what Oliver has been doing for so long he doesn't know how NOT to lie :(

[Diapason Untuned]

Someone upthread mentioned that these writers keep side-stepping the emotions. They do it all the time and it's frustrating. It's like they're afraid of emotions. They're certainly not afraid of drama, but they won't let their characters have authentic reactions.

I think they're afraid that if they have characters react too emotionally to stuff, they won't be able to plausibly write their way back from it.

Take the breakup. The whole thing had an air of inevitability to it, rather than something that happened by itself (though a case could be made about Barry's involvement there). If that really let it happen, how could they get them back together again? (which is pretty clearly going to happen)

[kismet]

I just can't decide if this is consistent with how Oliver has been written his season or if they wrote him out of character particularly for this plot to work.

I feel like it was the final nail in the crappy construction that was the BMD. Earlier in the episode, he mentioned wanting FS to be a part of Williams life. That he hoped BM would come around. And it looked like BM was coming around. Then he gets parental advice from everybody but his fiancee.... It was done purely for plot. I understood the need to uphold the BM's ultimatum. I even understood OQ deciding William is better off without him (it's basically putting the timeline right again).

 

But it was unacceptable in an episode that had him getting advice from everyone but FS. Add to that the insult that FS actually has first hand experience growing up without a father. I know Mari apparently had first hand experience. But so has FS, bonus we've also known about it since s1 or s2, that's like one of the first things we ever learned about FS.

 

So dumb and so twisting the characters for plot purposes. Because no offense in any other season or episode, FS would have spoken her mind, regardless of whether OQ asked or not. But FS was not allowed to say anything this episode.

[nksarmi]

You know what's sad. Oliver is becoming more like Robert every day with the lying :(. I suppose that's what Oliver has been doing for so long he doesn't know how NOT to lie :(

 

I said this at one point in the spoiler thread I think.  Oliver has been raised by liars, rewarded for lying, trained to do it for survival, and then needed to do it to be the Green Arrow.  It is very much his go-to and he doesn't see a lot wrong with it.  He's just broken.

 

So Felicity has to decide if she can live with that or not.  And the crazy thing is that I think she could IF she could trust him to make better decisions.  Because breaking his promise to BM and telling Felicity still would have involve lying, but it would have been a good decision.  Telling the whole team after he found out Malcolm knew and coming up with some screwy excuse to protect the kid might have involved lying, but it would have been a good decision.

 

I think the problem for Felicity is that while she knows Oliver is going to tell a whole host of fibs (like no I didn't invite your mom over for dinner, ok yeah I totally did) - it's his decision making she has trouble with.  And when you are with someone who has a history of making poor decisions (and what better proof do you need than watching his baby momma apologize to his ex-girlfriend for cheating with him and getting knocked up and lying to her about it so she wouldn't dump him) than you really want to know that that person will at least bounce things off you - get your input - let you help them make better choices.

 

So yea, Felicity dumping him really does make a lot of sense.  But I never thought her riding off into the sunset LAST season made sense but I guess she threw caution to the wind and went for it.  She's probably beating herself up for not knowing better too.

[Chaser]

I thought the Laurel and Lance scene well done by both parties. If not a little wtf?. He slept with her sister, a friend would have been a courtesy.

Aside from that though, the grabbing of BM was weird.

And what the hell was the hug with Vixen?

[SleepDeprived]

Forgot about Oliver suspending his campaign. Is Ruve going to get the automatic win, while her husband rots totem-less in a cell?

 

No automatic win. That's one of the things they made a point about earlier in the season that, even if there's only one candidate running for Mayor, the election/votes is still necessary before being sworn into office.

 

I kinda think Oliver will still end up winning, anyway. Not only because Darhk made a point to mention his concern about "write-ins" but, also, because Ruve is the wife of the evil dude that just went to jail and Team Arrow knows it.

[tennisgurl]

You know, I cant even be mad at Oliver. The real Oliver has learned that keeping secrets to "protect" people, always turns out badly. This Oliver is someone the writers have cooked up to create more pointless drama, and get people freaking out about the Olicity breakup on Twitter I`m not mad at Oliver, I`m mad at the writers. 

 

Writers of Arrow, YOU HAVE FAILED THIS SHOW 

[AyChihuahua]

YOU?  You are considering Ray as an option?  Boy howdy.  Now I know just how upset you are. 

Dude, I'M considering Ray as a superior choice. ME. Who has hated Ray the Cane Toad since his first lying appearance. Maybe still better than Oliver fricking Queen.

 

Please end the season with Felicity about to date superhot massively-enamored Richard Grayson. Please!

[ottoDbusdriver]

Was Vixen in a previous episode -- because I didn't remember her at all ? So how did Ollie know her, let alone her powers ? Or that she was in Detroit ?

Did Ollie encounter Vixen on Lian Yu at some point that we will see in a future flashback ? Who hasn't been on Lian Yu at this point ?

[AyChihuahua]

What made this episode worth watching live:

1. Oliver losing his mayoral candidacy

2. Oliver losing the spawn

3. Oliver losing Felicity

Oliver lost his candidacy? For sure? If yes, cool I called that.

[hogwash]

Aside from that though, the grabbing of BM was weird.

 

She was like an air/restaurant hostess or something. Very weird.

 

Was Vixen in a previous episode -- because I didn't remember her at all ? So how did Ollie know her, let alone her powers ? Or that she was in Detroit ?

Did Ollie encounter Vixen on Lian Yu at some point that we will see in a future flashback ? Who hasn't been on Lian Yu at this point ?

 

Animated Vixen show on CW Seed. Hence the "animated encounter" quip. 

[NumberCruncher]

I think they're afraid that if they have characters react too emotionally to stuff, they won't be able to plausibly write their way back from it.

Well that's not surprising considering how much people tend to complain when the characters--especially the female ones--are allowed to show real human emotion.

Take the breakup. The whole thing had an air of inevitability to it, rather than something that happened by itself (though a case could be made about Barry's involvement there). If that really let it happen, how could they get them back together again? (which is pretty clearly going to happen)

That's the whole problem with this episode (and the season as a whole)--the audience could see it coming a mile away. They also have done no favors with the flash forward either. Isn't the point to surprise your viewers? What good is it to be a storyteller when you broadcast what's going to happen 5 chapters ahead?

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think they're afraid that if they have characters react too emotionally to stuff, they won't be able to plausibly write their way back from it.

Take the breakup. The whole thing had an air of inevitability to it, rather than something that happened by itself (though a case could be made about Barry's involvement there). If that really let it happen, how could they get them back together again? (which is pretty clearly going to happen)

 

But that's a problem when you're trying to engage an audience and the emotions are glossed over. Don't get me wrong, I was not expecting nor am I advocating a full-on rage for Felicity. But allow the character more than 1 minute to convey the different emotions: hurt, anger, conflict, disbelief, etc. It's a very similar treatment to when Felicity was shot. I didn't get to see Oliver's reaction to Felicity fighting for her life. Instead we jumped to him already whaling on the goons. They do the buildup so well, and then jump 25 paces ahead in terms of the emotional journey. It's not good storytelling because I feel you're leaving your audience behind.

[kismet]

I'm torn between breaking my self-induced promise to not give ARROW any social media attention.... but at the same time I want to let them know that I laughed at the parody of their penultimate show of the season. I mean there was genuine humor to be found and I think that was not what they were going for.

 

BTW - Kudos to whoever above the thread used the word parody to describe ARROW, because that is exactly what it was.

[jay741982]

Wow. That was painful. Oliver's lucky Felicity didn't lose a shoe putting her foot up his ass. Yeah, Samantha was being a tad unreasonable in her conditions, but Ollie keeps making the wrong calls. How much you want to bet Felicity gives Barry a call? He's coming off a breakup, they had good chemistry, and homeboy can get to Star City in a hurry.

 

Before I go to the CW site . .. are Vixen's adventures worth watching? I think the character's peak was in Justice League Unlimited, but the actress playing her did a good job. And I like the effects. She could totally work on Flash or Legends if the writers needed her.

 How fucked is Dark? I'm guessing he got arrested, and he's powerless without his totem doodad. So why do I think he's still going to make trouble for Oliver. And while I'm thinking about it: How the fuck does Dark NOT know Oliver Queen is Green Arrow?!? I mean, you'd think Malcolm would have dropped a few hints, since he's a total assclown like that.

 

Month's hiatus? Super. Means I get free time after watching Survivor "live," as opposed to shotgunning Arrow after the credits.

I don't think Felicity is happy with Barry right now lol

[Primal Slayer]

 

Just give me a Birds of Prey spin off already!

[Menrva]

Well, I think I made the right choice in not watching Arrow. And I'll be deleting it from my DVR, unwatched. The spaghetti ala carbonara was delicious. I think the right drink would have been Absinthe. It tastes like ass going down, much like trying to swallow these preposterous stories.

[Chaser]

Oliver came across as resigned in the break up.

He knew it was coming and just shut down.

[AyChihuahua]

Oliver came across as resigned in the break up.

He knew it was coming and just shut down.

As always. He's never fought for a personal relationship in his life.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Animated Vixen show on CW Seed. Hence the "animated encounter" quip.

Thanks @hogwash -- I had no idea, never even picked up on the animated reference meant something related to Vixen.

[BkWurm1]

No automatic win. That's one of the things they made a point about earlier in the season that, even if there's only one candidate running for Mayor, the election/votes is still necessary before being sworn into office.

 

I kinda think Oliver will still end up winning, anyway. Not only because Darhk made a point to mention his concern about "write-ins" but, also, because Ruve is the wife of the evil dude that just went to jail and Team Arrow knows it.

Why couldn't he back out of backing out?  He was being extorted.  Quentin could back him up without revealing any facts about William being his son or even handing out names. 

 

Before I go to the CW site . .. are Vixen's adventures worth watching?

 

I liked it well enough but it's painfully short.  All the episodes only combine to about a half an hour.

[AyChihuahua]

 

Just give me a Birds of Prey spin off already!

Never mind, I guess the gif is Vixen. Still think Laurel should punch Baby Mama, though.

Edited February 25, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Guest]

Dude, I'M considering Ray as a superior choice. ME. Who has hated Ray the Cane Toad since his first lying appearance. Maybe still better than Oliver fricking Queen.

 

TOO FAR. YOU WENT TOO FAR. 

 

Seriously, Ray? Naw, son. Oliver was an idiot but let's not get too crazy please.

[Carrie Ann]

Serious question, how is that a good gif? Not only did Oliver cheat on Laurel with yet another chick...he cheated with her FRIEND. Her FRIEND and also her SISTER. I mean holy crap on a cracker. Laurel should be punching her.

 

That's Vixen, not Samantha.

[Lady Calypso]

So...I was out with friends while this episode was going on, but managed to read some comments on this thread. I'm home now and I have the episode loading on my laptop, but now the more I read, the more I know I shouldn't even bother. I got the important gifs on here (thanks guys!), so...I probably shouldn't even bother, right? Or should I? Or, since there's a month break, should I just wait until later? 

[EmeraldArcher]

As always. He's never fought for a personal relationship in his life.

Drat you for being right again! I hoped he would follow her, fight for her, but knew nothing would happen as the time ran out of the episode.

I admit to shouting "YES!" as soon as Felicity was visible in that first frame when she wheeled up to him. When my startled husband asked why I shouted with such glee, I pointed out that she was wearing her coat, so she was absolutely going to dump him.

What Earth is this where I'd celebrate Felicity dumping O-LIE-ver?!

[quarks]

And once again, we see that a good episode for Laurel requires a number of other characters to be awful! Even characters in other cities, like, seriously, Barry? SERIOUSLY?  In retrospect I am sorry that Diggle and Lyla didn't just let the shark eat you. And sure, I couldn't really get into the fate of the kid since we've barely seen the kid and I was 98% sure the kid would be ok.

 

But the rest of the episode had its moments! 

 

Good things:

 

1. Damien Darhk continues to be one of Arrow's best ever villains, even when he's just waving his arms around and taking joy in strangling people. And he takes time to offer his opponents constructive criticism! And he's helping out the Star City economy by buying new television sets! I like this guy. I hope he gets a new totem thingy soon.

 

2. Hey, Laurel finally makes it into the Good Things column with her scene with Quentin, where Arrow not only gave her a POV, but gave her the right emotional response to this - bothered, but more bothered because she was still bothered after ten years. Also kudos to Quentin's surprise that Oliver doesn't have more kids. I also really liked their last scene in the montage.

 

3. Vixen giving Oliver some hard truths about parenting and incidentally reassuring me that kids will not be a big part of this show.

 

4. I missed the comedy, but otherwise, Emily Bett Rickards was really on tonight, nailing pretty much every scene. 

 

5. The Oliver and Felicity breakup being about more than the lie, but the partnership. I also really liked their scene right after the physical therapy bit.

 

6. Curtis's husband. Hope he doesn't die. Gulp.

 

7. Thea! She got to shoot an arrow off a motorcycle! YAY!  Also, her fight with Malcolm. TRIPLE YAY!

 

8. This kid story line is over! TEN YAYS!

 

9. And the kid drove off with a little Green Arrow action figure. Awwwwwww.  Suck on that, Barry!

 

10. Really, Barry? REALLY?

 

Questionable things:

 

1. So, um, Evil Island has either zombies or evil ghosts or....something. So, my question is, given that Oliver has seen zombies and evil ghosts, why did he assume a couple years back that the Shado ghost was benign? Because the Shado ghost didn't have white eyes?

 

2. Is Reiter really making the flashback characters go into an evil cave without ropes?

 

3. Why am I still asking questions about these flashbacks? Why?

 

4. Wait. Samantha was Laurel's friend? Wow, pre-island Ollie. We keep thinking you can't get worse, and then you shock us, and get worse.

 

5. Wait. Mari was Laurel's friend? How? When did they meet? Did Oliver arrange a little superheroes get together party and introduce everyone, and if so, why did we not see that on the show?

 

6. I know we've asked this before, but where, exactly, is Star City? Mari, we know, is in Detroit. I assume they used Mari's bird thing to fly back, but still, how did they manage to do this in one night? If they didn't do this in one night, geesh, way to rush saving your kid, Oliver. Next time call Barry. I know he already has a spinoff and Vixen is trying to get one, but wow does he owe you right now.

 

7. Felicity at the beginning of the episode: I love you, Oliver. I still can't walk!

 

Felicity, later in the episode: I'm really angry at you, Oliver. Hey, I can walk!

 

Me: Behold the power of getting angry at Oliver Queen! It even makes magical spinal implants work!

 

I laughed. I'm pretty sure I wasn't supposed to laugh, but I laughed.

 

8.  Oh, come on, Team Arrow. Damien shot at kids at your little cleaning up the sea event, shot Felicity, is trying to take over a major city, and only now that Oliver's kid gets threatened do you call in Vixen?  Geesh.

 

9. Show, decide what you're doing with Diggle. You can't have him start the season infuriated with Oliver for lying to him, and then have him say now that he gets it. I know that you don't want us to hate Oliver, so you're using Thea, Diggle and Samantha to try to get us to see Oliver's point of view, but these are the wrong characters.

 

10. Poor Alex. Is anyone ever going to explain to him what's going on? Even in an episode all about how lying to people really ticks them off?

 

11. Constantine is actually back in hell then? Ooookkaaaayyyyy - and exactly how does Oliver know this? Does Constantine get cell phone service there?

 

12. I liked the parallel with the episode earlier this season, when Jeri Ryan's character immediately dropped her campaign. With that said, given that within just the last few months, a mayoral candidate dropped about because of a kidnapping, why weren't people - say, for instance, Alex and the reporters - wondering if something similar was going on here?  The reporters have occasionally asked questions on this show.  Have them do that again, Arrow.

 

13. I'm mixed about Vixen. I liked the character and I thought the actress was fine, and I'd really love to see a spinoff focused on Vixen. That said....I don't think the character transferred that well to live action, especially because the magic token things that worked fine on the cartoon really didn't work as well CGIed, and the CGI we've been seeing for the characters on Legends of Tomorrow is not giving me any confidence. It didn't help that the money/time spent for that CGI seemed to have caused cutbacks elsewhere - that's the worst little zipline CGI Oliver we've seen in awhile. Or that her scene with breaking the totem was pretty weak.

 

14. If Oliver's magical tattoo glows in the presence of magic, as the flashbacks are suggesting, then why isn't it glowing in the present day timeline?

 

15. Given that Damien could use the totem to strangle people, why hasn't he just strangled Oliver instead of going to all of this effort? Feeding that kid takes money and time.  Plus, apparently you have to supply him with a lot of action figures!

 

16. Really, Barry? Really?  Kinda glad that Oliver decided to tell Samantha your secret identity.

[AyChihuahua]

TOO FAR. YOU WENT TOO FAR. 

 

Seriously, Ray? Naw, son. Oliver was an idiot but let's not get too crazy please.

Believe me, I understand the extremity of the statement. I think I am the #1 Ray Palmer hater in the world. Perhaps eclipsed by Baby Mama, but I mean, Oliver didn't even ask her to stay or sincerely apologize. Just watched her walk away.

[kismet]

deleted

Edited February 25, 2016 by kismet

[benteen]

Why couldn't he back out of backing out?  He was being extorted.  Quentin could back him up without revealing any facts about William being his son or even handing out names. 

 

I liked it well enough but it's painfully short.  All the episodes only combine to about a half an hour.

 

This is another plot hole that Arrow won't solve.  It looks like Dhark is being arrested.  You have to announce what he was arrested for.  So is the police going to say that he abducted a random kid?  If the kid and his mother has disappeared, what exactly are they holding him on?

Edited February 25, 2016 by benteen

[kismet]

So...I was out with friends while this episode was going on, but managed to read some comments on this thread. I'm home now and I have the episode loading on my laptop, but now the more I read, the more I know I shouldn't even bother. I got the important gifs on here (thanks guys!), so...I probably shouldn't even bother, right? Or should I? Or, since there's a month break, should I just wait until later? 

I mean if you want a good laugh... It's been over 2hrs since its been over and I'm still chuckling over it.

[Carrie Ann]

So...I was out with friends while this episode was going on, but managed to read some comments on this thread. I'm home now and I have the episode loading on my laptop, but now the more I read, the more I know I shouldn't even bother. I got the important gifs on here (thanks guys!), so...I probably shouldn't even bother, right? Or should I? Or, since there's a month break, should I just wait until later? 

 

Depends on what you want! It's not an infuriating episode, IMO, just a disappointing, unsatisfying mess. There are some really good things that came out of it--primarily, the end (for now) of the William storyline, Thea renouncing Malcolm, DD being depowered, and I really liked Vixen. But none of the emotional stuff landed and it was just a rushed, anticlimactic mess. Definitely one you can put off until closer to 416 if you don't feel like watching right now.

[kismet]

So now that ARROW has remembered how to film videos on the laptop and Thea remembered Robert ~ do you think its about time we get to see Robert's video to her or will that be a s5 reveal?

[quarks]

Bad things:

 

1. SETS. ARROWVERSE. SETS. Last night, of course, we had Team Flash and the Diggles walking through the same set Legends of Tomorrow had just used two weeks prior for the little Russia Firestorm making thing, which was bad, and Team Flash looking for King Shark in the same spot in the bay that Legends of Tomorrow had previously failed to convince us was Norway, which made me question Team Flash's sense of geography, especially since Arrow has filmed in that exact spot too, which is now making me wonder if this entire show is just some Norwegian hallucination, but all that completely paled next to tonight's "Hey, do you know where we're keeping William? Well, walk down the hallway outside Laurel's apartment to find out!" You didn't even change the numbers on the hallway doors!

 

Not helping: the one thing you did change, Arrow, was the set outside the police station (which also doesn't match the stock footage you use for the front of the police station, but let us try to move on.) So, did the building next door just decide to jump up and leave in the last few episodes?

 

2. BARRY ALLEN. Stop sulking that you helped get Lounge Lizard Joe 2 killed and start calling Team Arrow the second you find out that Oliver's son got kidnapped. No wonder Felicity isn't returning your calls.  Though count me in as someone who wouldn't be at all shocked if Felicity and Barry decided to indulge their mutual breakups with a bit of offscreen sex.

 

3. And speaking of that, CW and Arrowverse showrunners, I realize that coordinating broadcast schedules is, as we discussed last season, tricky, but also as we discussed last season, rather important to coordinate to avoid issues like airing an episode of Flash that seems to have happened during/slightly after an episode of Arrow and even had some consequences to Flash, given Barry's last speech. (I think the first few minutes of Flash were before; the last 35 minutes after.)

 

4. Oliver acknowledging, in the script, that the last time he tried to deal with Damien Darhk, Darhk reneged on the deal, and yet failing to point this out to Oliver. Oh Oliver.

 

5. Oliver telling Samantha and the kid to flee, and yet failing to include the one person with the capacity to create fake identities for them in the discussion. It's not going to be all that hard for your enemies to track the kid, Oliver, given that Malcolm and Damien both know he exists, if Barry knows, there's a chance one of the Jays/Reverse-Flash knows he exists, and since presumably the Calculator is still paying attention to Felicity, he can probably guess too. So, that's two guys who hate you and already kidnapped the kid once, a series of time travelers who might talk, and another guy who won't be thrilled about this, and yet you're just letting Samantha and the kid drive off without Felicity establishing better identities for them? Oh, Oliver.

 

6. For an episode featuring a supposedly endangered kid, most of the characters seemed kinda, well, whatever about it. I couldn't figure out of that was the actors not caring about the storyline, or me.  Even the kid was remarkably calm about it. And did Damien really leave the kid so unguarded that he could just walk out the front door into a magical combat scene?

 

And now, Laurel!

 

Or not, since, aside from almost getting strangled by Damien Darhk, which was pretty much everyone in this episode, and not recognizing her own hallway, also everyone in this episode, and not bothering to use her legal knowledge to remind both Samantha and Oliver that they were being idiots, which I for one am going to completely forgive her for under the circumstances, Laurel didn't fail once this episode! She was forgiving!  She was helpful!  She was sympathetic! She had a cool motorcycle moment! She made one quick comment to Oliver but didn't waste time fighting with him! She - I was shocked too - even spoke common sense!

 

It was her hands down best episode of the season, an episode that suggested that the real Laurel was taken over by a robot clone or a mystical magical totem, which would explain all this, but until Arrow makes that reveal, let's devote this section to tonight's real failure of humanity, Samantha!

 

Number of ways Samantha failed as a human being in one episode, ten, which wow: Let's start with 1) not just cheating, but cheating with your friend's boyfriend, 2) waiting ten years to apologize to Laurel for that, which - seriously, Samantha, what if your son had started asking questions about his father? It wasn't out of the question that Oliver and Laurel would find out, and you were Laurel's friend. She deserved to hear that from you, 3) not letting the father of your son know that your kid's been kidnapped, 4) after finally telling Oliver this, wasting time looking at the Arrow Cave in awe instead of focusing on your son, 5) failing to acknowledge you are part of the problem, Samantha: if you'd allowed Oliver to tell his close friends/family about William, they (and Team Flash) might have been able to put a couple of safeguards in place so they would at least have had some place to start with instead of needing to go track down mystical vigilantes in Detroit for help, 6) yelling at Oliver when a previous plan didn't work, like, I don't see you running out to help save your kid, Samantha. I see two complete strangers running out. I see your former friend, who has every reason to say screw you right now, running out - and almost getting strangled as a result. And you're yelling at people?  I'd chalk this up to stress, except for the fact that you had plenty of time to talk calmly to Felicity, speaking of which, 7) apparently trying to guilt trip Felicity by pointing out that Oliver wanted to tell Felicity, but you wouldn't let him, thus 8) reminding Felicity that Oliver decided a promise to you was more important than sharing kinda critical life and security things to her, all while 8) not apologizing to FELICITY, one of the people hurt by your incredibly poor choice of demands, even though Felicity is sitting right there trying to help get your son back, 9) jumping on Oliver for not being honest with her which, are you kidding me, Samantha? You lied to him about the kid in the first place and you told him to lie to his girlfriend and all of his friends. Who turned around and helped you rescue your kid anyway, yay them, 10) after the meeting the actual flesh and blood person whose major relationship you just helped destroy, a person who responded by trying to rescue your son, never once suggesting to Oliver, again, that Felicity should be at least kept informed about your decisions, especially since at that point, she kinda knows what's going on.

 

Samantha did give her kid a little Green Arrow action figure, though. So maybe she can be redeemed off screen. Here's hoping. After all, Laurel just had a good episode!

[way2interested]

So now that ARROW has remembered how to film videos on the laptop and Thea remembered Robert ~ do you think its about time we get to see Robert's video to her or will that be a s5 reveal?

I've been waiting to find this out since 314. I just hope we get it at some point in general, since they did put in a "For Thea" video in there for some reason. I thought that they would use it around now, but luckily thanks to this episode we don't need another push for Thea to hate Malcolm now. Maybe they could at least use the video as the icing to this "Thea now hates Malcolm" cake?

[benteen]

I thought it was funny that even though the episode was in Detroit (obviously it wasn't) the criminals still managed to run into the same Star City warehouse we see almost every week on Arrow.

 

The one thing I do wish Felicity would have said is that if Oliver had told her about William, she wouldn't of said a word about him to anyone.

[Jediknight]

2. BARRY ALLEN. Stop sulking that you helped get Lounge Lizard Joe 2 killed and start calling Team Arrow the second you find out that Oliver's son got kidnapped. No wonder Felicity isn't returning your calls.  Though count me in as someone who wouldn't be at all shocked if Felicity and Barry decided to indulge their mutual breakups with a bit of offscreen sex.

Did Barry know who Oliver's son was?  He knew Oliver had a son, but I thought he didn't know who he was.  He only approached Samantha after Felicity called him.

 

He would have been in Earth 2 when William got taken, and shortly after returning ARGUS brought him in to help them, so there's the possibility he had no idea about it.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Jediknight

[KirkB]

13. I'm mixed about Vixen. I liked the character and I thought the actress was fine, and I'd really love to see a spinoff focused on Vixen. That said....I don't think the character transferred that well to live action, especially because the magic token things that worked fine on the cartoon really didn't work as well CGIed, and the CGI we've been seeing for the characters on Legends of Tomorrow is not giving me any confidence. It didn't help that the money/time spent for that CGI seemed to have caused cutbacks elsewhere - that's the worst little zipline CGI Oliver we've seen in awhile. Or that her scene with breaking the totem was pretty weak.

 

 

I can't argue the zipline, that was pretty sad, but I actually liked the Vixen power. It's supposed to be all misty and glowing.

 

14. If Oliver's magical tattoo glows in the presence of magic, as the flashbacks are suggesting, then why isn't it glowing in the present day timeline?

 

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that particular tattoo is the one Constantine took off the artifact he found on the island and put on Oliver, which I think means it is connected specifically to the island, or something on it.

 

15. Given that Damien could use the totem to strangle people, why hasn't he just strangled Oliver instead of going to all of this effort? Feeding that kid takes money and time.  Plus, apparently you have to supply him with a lot of action figures!

 

 

Dark has had Oliver at his mercy more than once and failed to kill him. He's a cool villain but not a very effective one.

[Pete Martell]

That breakup-and-walkout scene reminded me of SOAP, which I assume it wasn't supposed to do. I can picture the story now - Jessica struggles to walk again. Dumbass Chester has a secret kid from one of his many affairs. Jessica learns from one of Jodie's alters, or Chuck and Bob, or Alien Burt, or whoever, and tearily wheels over to Chester, announcing that all she wanted was to walk again for him...and now he's given her a reason to walk - and it's to walk away from him. Jessica gets up and leaves. Chester sobs into her now-empty wheelchair.

 

Frankly, it would have been more dramatically powerful than most of this kid storyline. (and if Katherine Helmond is still acting, I'd love to see her as Felicity's grandmother or great-grandmother...) 

 

Vixen's animal projections gave me patronus flashbacks. I don't know if that was intended or not. 

 

I always hated how horribly DC and many fans treated the mid-80's JLA, so I guess I should take it as justice that these shows now have a Vixen and Vibe...I guess it's too much to expect Ralph and Sue Dibny...

[EmeraldArcher]

Bad things:

 

let's devote this section to tonight's real failure of humanity, Samantha!

 

Number of ways Samantha failed as a human being in one episode, ten, which wow: Let's start with 1) not just cheating, but cheating with your friend's boyfriend, 2) waiting ten years to apologize to Laurel for that, which - seriously, Samantha, what if your son had started asking questions about his father? It wasn't out of the question that Oliver and Laurel would find out, and you were Laurel's friend. She deserved to hear that from you, 3) not letting the father of your son know that your kid's been kidnapped, 4) after finally telling Oliver this, wasting time looking at the Arrow Cave in awe instead of focusing on your son, 5) failing to acknowledge you are part of the problem, Samantha: if you'd allowed Oliver to tell his close friends/family about William, they (and Team Flash) might have been able to put a couple of safeguards in place so they would at least have had some place to start with instead of needing to go track down mystical vigilantes in Detroit for help, 6) yelling at Oliver when a previous plan didn't work, like, I don't see you running out to help save your kid, Samantha. I see two complete strangers running out. I see your former friend, who has every reason to say screw you right now, running out - and almost getting strangled as a result. And you're yelling at people?  I'd chalk this up to stress, except for the fact that you had plenty of time to talk calmly to Felicity, speaking of which, 7) apparently trying to guilt trip Felicity by pointing out that Oliver wanted to tell Felicity, but you wouldn't let him, thus 8) reminding Felicity that Oliver decided a promise to you was more important than sharing kinda critical life and security things to her, all while 8) not apologizing to FELICITY, one of the people hurt by your incredibly poor choice of demands, even though Felicity is sitting right there trying to help get your son back, 9) jumping on Oliver for not being honest with her which, are you kidding me, Samantha? You lied to him about the kid in the first place and you told him to lie to his girlfriend and all of his friends. Who turned around and helped you rescue your kid anyway, yay them, 10) after the meeting the actual flesh and blood person whose major relationship you just helped destroy, a person who responded by trying to rescue your son, never once suggesting to Oliver, again, that Felicity should be at least kept informed about your decisions, especially since at that point, she kinda knows what's going on.

 

Samantha did give her kid a little Green Arrow action figure, though. So maybe she can be redeemed off screen. Here's hoping. After all, Laurel just had a good episode!

quarks, I love you!

[Jediknight]

That breakup-and-walkout scene reminded me of SOAP, which I assume it wasn't supposed to do. I can picture the story now - Jessica struggles to walk again. Dumbass Chester has a secret kid from one of his many affairs. Jessica learns from one of Jodie's alters, or Chuck and Bob, or Alien Burt, or whoever, and tearily wheels over to Chester, announcing that all she wanted was to walk again for him...and now he's given her a reason to walk - and it's to walk away from him. Jessica gets up and leaves. Chester sobs into her now-empty wheelchair.

Just needs Benson making snarky comments and being Benson.

[BunsenBurner]

Did you notice that when Felicity told the team about William she never stated that he was Oliver's son just a 10 year old boy. So even though the entire world knew about William she kept his secret. Twitter had some great comments on who knew the secret.

 

Laurel wasn't in the Vixen animated series so how does Laurel know her.

[Artsda]

Oliver deserved Felicity walking out on him. Especially with basically half a dozen people knowing but yet he uses the excuse he couldn't tell anyone because of the ultimatum. Darke, Malcolm, Barry, and Thea. Oliver knowing Malcolm knew alone should have slapped him some sense and made him tell Thea, why would he think Malcolm would keep his secret?

[quarks]

Felicity's like: I leave you with your tears, my ring, and also this wheelchair. Peace.

 

Haha, what a mess. Sure, Felicity, he should have told you, but you lost me with the whole, you didn't include me on the decision to send William away. Why would he, Felicity? William's not your kid. It has literally nothing to do with you, even in the vague I'm-dating-the-dad way. He's not your kid. Did you include Oliver when you decided to help out Laurel and Diggle? I realize marriage wasn't on the table then but you were still in a relationship.

 

It's true that Felicity didn't tell Oliver that she was helping out Team Arrow while they were travelling the world and off in suburbia. But in many ways, that's exactly what makes this situation worse - Oliver told her that the reason he was upset about that wasn't the lie, but that he thought they were together. As a unit. That's why he reconsidered proposing.

 

A few months later, he did propose, thinking they were together - and yet he didn't tell her about this. Which makes him a hypocrite here.

 

Apart from that, though, I'd argue that it's not a vague I'm-dating-the-dad-way; they're planning their wedding, which makes her this kid's potential stepmother. That's a very different relationship, and I think you'll find that many step-parents do define themselves as real parents. Both tonight's episode and Flash just pointed out that you don't have to be biologically related to have that relationship, or a similar one. Two, as this episode just demonstrated, this kid was an actual security risk to the entire team. Three, under the circumstances, not bringing the group hacker in to help ensure that Malcolm and H.I.V.E. can't track down the kid is really stupid.  Four, everything you said applies far more to Vixen - and yet Oliver did talk to Vixen, someone he's previously only met and hung out with in an animated cartoon, but not the person he's living with and planning to marry. Problem.

 

I don't think that Felicity needs to have a deciding voice in this at all - that's Oliver and Samantha. But I think she can be legitimately hurt that he didn't talk to her about this decision.