S06.E08: Season 6, Episode 8

[peggy06]

I forgot to mention, Mary's spangled black evening dress was to die for, and I also loved her wedding suit and hat. The characters on the show may disappoint, the costumes never.

[TVFAN]

Our local PBS station rebroadcasts everything the next night on a secondary channel, so I took the opportunity to watch this episode again, and I'm glad I did.  Doing so let me step back and really observe the Mary/Edith situation in a more detached way.

 

I was a die-hard Sybil fan, and she will always be my favorite of the sisters, but since she's been gone, I've been more Team Mary than Team Edith.  I still like Mary more.  She has a toughness that will be required to save Downton when the Depression hits, but she's also shown a softer side on many occasions, such as when she took George to see Mr. Barrow tonight.  (Her visit to Matthew's grave brought tears to my eyes.)  Edith is a bit too much like Eeyore for my taste.

 

That having been said, this episode was a microcosm of the sisters' relationship.  Edith and Mary are just two very different people who happen to share the same parents.  Their family ties are the only thing they have in common.  Their values likes, dislikes, and world views could not be more different.  In 2016, they would no longer be living in the same house, and I suspect that distance would have toned down the competitive nature of their relationship at least a bit.  But in 1925, though they are in their 30s, they are living much the same life they did in their teens.  They are still competing for attention and approval.

 

Mary was clearly jealous of the fact that Edith would have such a high rank.  And Edith was clearly not above lording it over her.  Edith did start the fight at the breakfast table.  She insisted that Henry had dumped Mary, and when Mary did not immediately congratulate her on her engagement, she started digging at Mary about being jealous.  Tom tried to stop her, but Edith refused to be stopped.  Despite years of living together, Edith has never learned that it is unwise to poke a bear.  Mary has always had the ability to verbally flatten Edith.  (She must have gotten  the Violet gene.)

 

Mary lacks the self discipline to control her temper.  If someone takes a shot at her, she fires back with a cannon.  She was wrong to reveal Edith's secret.  She clearly knew that she was hurting Edith.  But I believe her when she says she was out of control in that moment.  Mary can be cruel, but she's never been shown to be doing something calculated to hurt someone.  She did not plot against Edith.

 

In sum, each sister brings out the absolute worst in the other.  Neither is blameless.  

 

And someone needs to give Robert and Cora a good talking to about the danger of secrets in a family.  They should have encouraged  Edith to share the secret of Marigold with Mary.  Mary would not necessarily have been sympathetic, but she would have been much less likely to share something she learned in confidence.  She and Edith might actually have been on the same team for once.  

 

On a much happier note, can we have a spin off starring Violet and Tom?  I just love how their relationship has evolved.  They have this mutual respect that's rather touching.  She was the one who paid for Sybil and Tom to come to Mary's wedding; she was the one who told Robert that Tom should make the call on Sybil's care;  she was the one who suggested that Tom become the estate manager; and she was the one who tried to help him learn the social graces.  And Tom has never shown anything but love and respect for her.  He clearly understood that she was the only one in the family capable of straightening out tonight's mess.

 

Love seeing Tiaa assuming her role as queen of the household and loved every single outfit worn by Mary, Edith, and the rest.  The costumes have been stunning this year.

[jschoolgirl]

I wonder what Tom calls Cora, Robert, and Violet now. We've never heard.

[Artymouse]

I wonder what Tom calls Cora, Robert, and Violet now. We've never heard.

I hope he calls Robert "Donk"!

[Constantinople]

When he found out Bertie was the heir, Robert was so positively gleeful I expected him to burst into song and mimic dancing on the 6th Marquess's grave.

 

Golly gumdrops.

[AndySmith]

Mary accused Henry of calling her a gold-digger for suggesting she wouldn't marry him because of his lack of prospect

 

I don't think that is what she was referring to...that was to his suggestion that she could only marry someone really loaded.

 

Sounds like a man who had hit his wife "explains" that the wife kept nagging him and he had to silence her. But even a violent man can learn not to react by hitting.

 

 

That's a really, really, horrible comparison. It doesn't sound like that in any way, shape or form.

 

But lets go along with that. Edith wasn't nagging, she was deliberately pushing button and provoking when she didn't have to. If anything, if you're going to make a really bad physical violence analogy, you could say the instigator was slapping the other person, and the other person retaliated.

 

A person becomes mentally an adult when she admits that whatever the other people says or does, that does not make her behave like she does but it's only her own choice.

 

That goes both ways, and should apply equally to both Mary and Edith. You can't have it both ways.

 

Also, being an adult also means knowing when to pick and choose your battles, and when to just let some things go. Which Edith certainly didn't twig to in this encounter. If they were waiting to announce their engagement, then maybe her provoking Mary wasn't in Edith's best interest, regardless of whether Mary knew about Marigold or not. It would have ended up being another fight at the breakfast table, and why would Edith want that? For all of Edith's progress, she still has quite a bit of growing up to do.

 

In 2016, they would no longer be living in the same house,

 

Back then, they wouldn't be living together. Edith has an apartment in London, and the means to support herself to live and work in London. She should be there now, but storyline reasons, budget concerns, JF, etc, dictate that Edith should still be there. Even though it doesn't make sense for her to be there.

Edited February 23, 2016 by AndySmith

[TheGreenKnight]

That's a really, really, horrible comparison. It doesn't sound like that in any way, shape or form.

All the poster intended was to point out the fact that it's blaming the victim to say that Edith "asked for it."

 

Of course there's no doubt I'm in Edith's corner, but I did not take the breakfast conversation in any way as Edith starting a fight. Bertie tried to bring the subject up, and Edith was trying to shut it down because she knew how Mary would be if she tried to bring her happiness up to Mary while she's miserable.* As far as what Edith said to Mary, it's the truth: Henry did just leave her and Mary looked devastated, so definitely not the right moment to parade anything. (Something Mary has never been able to do for Edith; when Edith is miserable, Mary gets a haircut, throws a picnic, buys a dress for everyone to compliment, etc.) And what she says about Mary being incapable of having happiness for her was also true; she was exasperated at Mary's inability to say even the most minute thing to congratulate her or Bertie. Compare this to Edith talking to Mary about Matthew before her wedding and complimenting her on how she looks.

 

EDIT: *I think Edith was also trying to stop Bertie from bringing anything up because she was trying to delay telling him about Marigold.

Edited February 23, 2016 by TheGreenKnight

[AndySmith]

No, she asked for it. To compare this in anyway to a victim "asking for it" is so insulting to people who suffer real abuse and rape.

 

Edith didn't shut it down, she kept it going. When Mary disagreed with her initially on why Henry left, Edith could have just dropped it, but no, she had to be right in why Henry left and couldn't let Mary save face. And if Mary wants to sit at the table silently...well, so what? Just let her sit there and fume. As others have mentioned, why poke a bear if you don't have to? Edith is the one who dragged Mary into it.

 

And if Edith wanted an excuse to postpone the announcement, she could have used Cora not being there as a better reason.

[Avaleigh]

For me personally, I wasn't even saying that Edith was "asking for it". I've maintained that Mary was wrong to do what she did. Where I disagree is the interpretation that Edith hasn't done anything wrong and that she was innocent and mature in her behavior with Mary in this episode. I think it's the opposite of mature to talk about a person in front of them like they aren't even there and Edith did that during the conversation at the breakfast table. It's also immature to insist that you know the status of a person's relationship better than the person who is in the relationship. It's also the opposite of nice for a person to insist that someone was dumped and then brag to this same person a couple of minutes later that you're getting married. At best it's insensitive but knowing how she feels about Mary in general, it seems like Edith was going out of her way to be mean. 

[J-Man]

Even though the show would never tell us, I think Bertie's cousin was most likely "done in" by some Tangiers rough trade.

 

So, Tom was the best man at the wedding, but then who was the maid of honor? It CERTAINLY wasn't Edith, and I can't imagine anyone else who'd stand up for Mary.

[AndySmith]

Even though the show would never tell us, I think Bertie's cousin was most likely "done in" by some Tangiers rough trade.

 

What, in a Suddenly, Last Summer kind of way?

[Avaleigh]

What, in a Suddenly, Last Summer kind of way?

Yikes, I hope not since Bertie said his cousin was always so nice. 

 

I was thinking it was more of Sebastian of Brideshead situation but maybe not. 

[BrianJ62]

The G family kinda reminds me of the Kardashians. Bravo for Mary's smackdowns.

[txhorns79]

No, she asked for it.

 

I don't think Edith "asked for it," because that presumes that Edith's and Mary's comments are roughly equivalent, when they simply are not.  You are right that Edith was rude to Mary.  However, Mary responded to that rudeness by knowingly acting to destroy Edith's relationship with Bertie.  Mary's response is always going to dwarf anything Edith did because it was so out of proportion to Edith's action.             

[AndySmith]

Then what was she hoping the outcome would be? That Mary would just sit there silently and take it? Edith isn't that stupid. Don't act shocked and indignant if someone brings a gun to a knife-fight you started, and then whine and cry foul about it after.

 

Mary's response is always going to dwarf anything Edith did because it was so out of proportion to Edith's action.

 

Mary's response (and that is what it was, a response, not something Mary instigated) neither excuses nor justifies Edith's behavior. Edith shouldn't get a pass just because Mary ended up the bigger bitch.

Edited February 23, 2016 by AndySmith

[txhorns79]

Mary's response (and that is what it was, a response, not something Mary instigated) neither excuses nor justifies Edith's behavior. Edith shouldn't get a pass just because Mary ended up the bigger bitch.

 

I don't think Edith gets a pass so much as Mary's reaction was so disproportional as to make anything Edith did mostly a non-issue.  It honestly sounds like the pass is being given to Mary to try to justify her overreaction by suggesting that Edith's actions somehow required Mary to act the way she did. 

[AndySmith]

I'm not saying Mary gets a pass on what she did. I'm saying Edith started that whole debacle, and had she been much more careful with her wording, the whole situation could have been avoided. Even if Mary's actions were disproportional, that still doesn't negate that Edith started it.

Edited February 23, 2016 by AndySmith

[Roseanna]

Whether or not you're close, when it comes down to it, family is the only thing that connects you to your past. This scene just wrecked me. Seriously. My parents and siblings are all gone, and we did not have much of an extended family. Edith (or Fellowes) has it right - whatever else you have, if someone is still alive, you have shared memories and are still connected to your youth and loved ones.

 

But what kind of shared memories Mary and Edith have? Besides perhaps those that concern Sybil, they have opposite memories about their childhood. If they began to recall them, it would end in a qauarrel whose memories were "right".

 

Besides, Edith mentioned also Michael Gregson. How could she ever spoke about him to Mary who from the beginning belittled him, who never bothered to get to know hm, who knew nothing about his and Edith's relationship, who said constantly that she couldn't understand what he saw in Edith and who, before all, behaved callously when Edith learned of his death?  

 

If Mary and Edith had that kind of bond in their old age, it must have been born much earlier, for instance when Sybil died. 

[AndySmith]

True, but they both love their parents, and Violet, and Rosamund, and Matthew, and Tom, and Isobel...well, at least I hope they do.

[txhorns79]

I'm not saying Mary gets a pass on what she did. I'm saying Edith started that whole debacle, and had she been much more careful with her wording, the whole situation could have been avoided. Even if Mary's actions were disproportional, that still doesn't negate that Edith started it.

 

If the intention isn't to justify or excuse Mary's behavior, then I don't understand why it matters so much that Edith started the fight.   

 

 

But what kind of shared memories Mary and Edith have? Besides perhaps those that concern Sybil, they have opposite memories about their childhood. If they began to recall them, it would end in a quarrel whose memories were "right".

 

I think Edith's point was more that she and Mary share memories of people they both love, and there may come a point where no one excepting the two of them recall these people.  Edith was saying it would leave them both very lonely if they have no one to recall those memories with by continuing the feud. 

[AndySmith]

then I don't understand why it matters so much that Edith started the fight.

 

Because she brought it all on herself?

[photo fox]

I know Edith/Mary inspires a lot of passion, but things are getting pretty circular and heated, and nobody's convincing anybody at this point.

Let's give that poor dead horse a break for a bit and talk about something else. :-)

[TheGreenKnight]

I guess it's expected that people will view the scene differently. To me, Mary began the conversation by snapping at Edith, "Why isn't this a good moment?" as if she'd been insulted and then arguing semantics with Edith about what happened between her and Henry. It was inevitable Mary would drop the bomb at some point as soon as she heard Edith would become Marchioness even if Edith had suddenly become a doormat again.

 

EDIT: Sorry, I had been writing this before I saw the mod note. Let's see...

 

 

 

Robert was completely kicking ass all over the place.  He was cheering Edith on, admonishing Mary on her low blow, felt sorry for Tom (even though I don't), and sticking up for Mrs. Patamore (even making sure she was placed prominently in the photo).

 

I agree. It's odd how much Robert has progressed on this show. He still bothered me a little here and there, but nowhere near being the worst character on the show anymore like he was in season 3. How strange that Carson ends the show stuck resolutely in the past while Violet and Robert have moved forward.

Edited February 23, 2016 by TheGreenKnight

[peggy06]

 

EDIT: *I think Edith was also trying to stop Bertie from bringing anything up because she was trying to delay telling him about Marigold.

I think Edith wanted to have "the talk" with Bertie before making an announcement, in case the truth about Marigold changed his mind. Remember we never saw her accept his proposal per se, he said, "I'll take that as a Yes." Granted, Edith did outright state to Mary, "I'm going to be married," but that was in the heat of the moment and after Bertie rather forced her hand. It makes it all the sadder, because I think she really did plan to tell him the truth. There is no other good explanation for her reaction and hesitation when he wanted to announce their news at breakfast.

[marceline]

The whole Mary/Edith thing coming to a head and being resolved in one episode is so ridiculous. This reveal should've happened 3-4 episodes ago so that the Mary/Edith split could've reverberated throughout the family. Instead we got treated to ridiculous filler stories like Daisy's studies, which I found completely boring outside of how it helped Molesley come into his own, the non-story of the Invisible Coyle and the Spratt/Denker nonsense. 

[AndySmith]

It does seem like JF began writing out the final season, got to the last couple of episodes, realized he didn't have enough episodes left, and just said "Ah fcuk it, just wrap it all up in the last 2 episodes".

[AndySmith]

Well, the outing of Marigold happened at the breakfast table, not the day before, so...

 

I can see more and more why Edith never came forward about Marigold. I can see it especially when I try to imagine how that nighttime scene between her and Beritie ("I'll take that as a yes") would have played out differently if she had taken the opportunity to say, "Bertie, let's go back to the library, there's something I have to tell you."

 

As with many storylines this season, this sub-plot needed more time to develop. It definitely needed more than one episode.

[Constantinople]

Even in the England of 1925, I'm a little skeptical that the newspaper headlines would be

 

ENGLISH

MARQUESS

DIES IN

TANGIERS

for an otherwise unremarkable nobleman who is so unknown he isn't even identified as Lord Hexham in the headline.  When the (real) Marquess of Curzon died in March of 1925, I wouldn't be surprised if that had made headlines, but Curzon had a long political career as Viceroy to India, Foreign Secretary and a one time prosepctive Prime Minister.  Perhaps if there was something suspicious about Lord Hexham's death -- my new nickname for Violet is Livia -- or they could somehow tie it to King Tut's curse.  I don't doubt his death would be reported, but headlines seems a bit much.

I also find it a little hard to believe that Mary pays enough attention to know that the 6th Marquess of Hexham spent a lot of time in Tangiers.

[Capricasix]

I know Edith/Mary inspires a lot of passion, but things are getting pretty circular and heated, and nobody's convincing anybody at this point.

Let's give that poor dead horse a break for a bit and talk about something else. :-)

Do we get a bunny in this forum? ;)

[marceline]

It does seem like JF began writing out the final season, got to the last couple of episodes, realized he didn't have enough episodes left, and just said "Ah fcuk it, just wrap it all up in the last 2 episodes".

 

And what bothers me is that all season long they've been sniping at each other over completely stupid stuff when that conflict could've been based on something real and pulled in the entire family. There's so much legitimate fallout that could've happened. Mary should feel betrayed that everyone knew but her. Robert's crack to Rosamund about how she doesn't have children could've led to "I was a better parent to Edith than either you or Cora." Tom calling Mary out on her viciousness could've been a far more complex thing since he is essentially the voice of Sybil. Edith could have moved to London and tried building a life of her own for a few eps. It would've made her returning for Mary's wedding feel more substantial.

 

There was just so much missed opportunity here and it's even worse when you consider that this season's big umbrella story, the one that affected everyone, turned out to be that mindless debate over the hospital.

Edited February 23, 2016 by marceline

[lovinbob]

I am so distracted by the title of "Marquess." It seems like that should be a woman's title!

[crowceilidh]

 

I truly hate that Thomas gets a happy ending and that he is staying at Downton and presumably will become butler one day when Carson dies or retires. Maybe I am cold, but he has treated people poorly for years.

Unlike Carson who treats everyone so fairly and kindly?

 

I think Bertie's dragon mum has become a character so as to give JF a reason why Bertie is unable to accept Edith at this juncture but may be able to accept her later.  Any self reflection would show him that she had been trying to tell him (why characters so rarely point these things out in dramas - as if you wouldn't say, "I've been trying to work up the courage, but I just hadn't got there yet?  Remember last night when I said, "I love you...", I was trying to get tell you, but you jumped in and I lost my resolve"). Perhaps dragon mum will die between now and Xmas and Bertie will come to her all relieved and say, Now I can marry you, because Mumsy isn't around to be horrid to us.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Macbeth, on 22 Feb 2016 - 8:10 PM, said:

    Robert was completely kicking ass all over the place.  He was cheering Edith on, admonishing Mary on her low blow, felt sorry for Tom (even though I don't), and sticking up for Mrs. Patamore (even making sure she was placed prominently in the photo).

I agree. It's odd how much Robert has progressed on this show. He still bothered me a little here and there, but nowhere near being the worst character on the show anymore like he was in season 3. How strange that Carson ends the show stuck resolutely in the past while Violet and Robert have moved forward..

 

I've been rewatching Season 1 and had forgotten that I liked Robert then.  He was compassionate and level, and I'll be interested to see when he starts devolving and going tone deaf.  I also see now that, though I never liked him, Carson wasn't as insufferable as he is now.  If the characters were static, it would be boring, and yet we still seem fascinated with the sisterly dynamic that hasn't moved much off square one. 

[fishcakes]

Did she "delight" in that idea?  Tom thought she did -- he said something about her being "gleeful" at the idea -- but I think Tom, like Edith, like all of Mary's family, assume the worst whenever Mary says anything about Edith. 

 

That scene was very strange. When Mary said she wondered if Bertie would lose his job, she had a concerned look on her face, so Tom telling her not to be so gleeful about it was bizarre.

 

Regarding Barrow, as ill-timed as Mary's comment was to her father, I'm not sure it was as low a blow as he took it to be. Although the family has talked about cutting back on staff for years and has cut back from what we saw in early seasons, the sudden urgent need for Thomas and no one else to leave as soon as possible does seem cruel. Up to this point, they've thinned the ranks through attrition. Maids leave, footmen leave, and they simply don't get replaced. Even if under butler is increasingly becoming an unnecessary position, why wouldn't they just demote him to footman and let Andy go? Even Molesley and Bates have been working for them for less time than Barrow.

 

We've seen in the past that long-time staff members are treated, in some respects, like family. The family has paid the Bateses' legal and medical bills. Robert paid for Mrs. Patmore's eye surgery, and when Mrs. Hughes thought she might have breast cancer, Cora told her not to worry about who would take care of her or where she'd live because she would live there and they would take care of her. Similarly, Mrs. Hughes had no retirement savings and planned to work until she dropped dead. Eventually, the family would have seen she was too old to work; I can't see that they would have put her out in the street at that point. I doubt any of the staff are paid enough to really put away any savings. Mrs. Patmore bought her B&B because a relative died and she inherited; the Bateses have a house because Mr. Bates inherited his mother's house; only Carson seems to have had any money of his own. So I'm wondering why Thomas is suddenly persona non grata; I get that  he's been all bastardy for years and that Carson doesn't like him, but that's nothing new. Thomas is like the family's black sheep son/employee. He's been with them since he was a teenager, probably. It just seems very contrived that Robert and the rest of the family have no loyalty to him at all now and are willing to throw him and his training in an obsolete profession out to the wolves.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

For me the highlight of this muckety mucked episode were a) Robert bitching about Violet at the beginning only for Rosamund to point out that she gave him Tiaa, only for Robert to beam that all was forgiven. And of course, b) Molesley commanding the classroom and contributing, in however small a way, to the dissolution of the class system.

[jschoolgirl]

The whole Mary/Edith thing coming to a head and being resolved in one episode is so ridiculous. This reveal should've happened 3-4 episodes ago so that the Mary/Edith split could've reverberated throughout the family. Instead we got treated to ridiculous filler stories like Daisy's studies, which I found completely boring outside of how it helped Molesley come into his own, the non-story of the Invisible Coyle and the Spratt/Denker nonsense.

AIUI, Our Lord Creator writes by the seat of his pants as the season goes along. So if there was a casting problem with the Coyle story, well, he would just let it hang.

I often think about what Downton Abbey could have been.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Which Of Downton Abbey's Snitty Sisters Will Get To Be The Girl With The Most Cake?
Edith and Mary deal with the complications of their love lives. Mostly not well.

[AndySmith]

I'm a little skeptical that the newspaper headlines

 

Is it possible the point wasn't that a Marquess had died, but that he died IN TANGIERS, aka the Boystown of North Africa, you know, nudge nudge, wink wink. Did Tangier have that reputation back then?

 

I am so distracted by the title of "Marquess." It seems like that should be a woman's title!

 

It is unusual to have a male designation to end in 'ess'. The female version of that is Marchioness.

Edited February 23, 2016 by AndySmith

[Constantinople]

Am I the only one who was hoping that Henry would be killed in a freak carriage accident that left the horses and Mary unscathed, after he and Mary rode away from the church?

It would have been a nice counterpoint to all the worrying about racing cars while still tying in with the transportation tragedies of Matthew (car crash) and Patrick Crawley (sinking ship).

[kassa]

I have to assume the CS will unveil some kind of emotional growth from Mary.  The last few episodes she's been flinching each time somebody in her family has called her out on her sour attitude -- and they ALL have (minus maybe Carson).  And when they're not actually saying something she's watching them exchange looks.  She doubled down on the nasty, sneering at her father for his contribution to Barrow's suicide attempt.  Then the breakfast from hell.  Then the happy wedding (WTF).

 

Something has to break, and with only one or two hours left the only way I can see it breaking is through either Thomas or Marigold. I had kind of expected her to prove her family wrong for not confiding in her by defending Marigold's position in the family against some jerk or other, showing her loyalty and winning her family's respect back, but that seems unlikely at this point.

 

I have to assume Bertie will realize he needs to put his happiness first and return from Tangiers a more accepting person, marry Edith, and whisk her, Marigold, and Thomas, their new butler, up to their new estate, which may already be staffed by handsome young men of a certain persuasion.  WWII is looming, but there also will be two coronations about 10 years from now, and Marchioness Edith will be able to tell Lady Mary Whateverherlastnameisnow all about them.

Edited February 23, 2016 by kassa

[RedHawk]

Even in the England of 1925, I'm a little skeptical that the newspaper headlines would be

ENGLISH

MARQUESS

DIES IN

TANGIERS

for an otherwise unremarkable nobleman who is so unknown he isn't even identified as Lord Hexham in the headline. When the (real) Marquess of Curzon died in March of 1925, I wouldn't be surprised if that had made headlines, but Curzon had a long political career as Viceroy to India, Foreign Secretary and a one time prosepctive Prime Minister. Perhaps if there was something suspicious about Lord Hexham's death -- my new nickname for Violet is Livia -- or they could somehow tie it to King Tut's curse. I don't doubt his death would be reported, but headlines seems a bit much.

I also find it a little hard to believe that Mary pays enough attention to know that the 6th Marquess of Hexham spent a lot of time in Tangiers.

Mary was just hopeful that the next Marquess of wherever would be some youngish single man that she knew or could possibly get Evelyn Napier to introduce her to. Oops! Edited February 23, 2016 by RedHawk

[SusanSunflower]

It's strange, what I found really jarring was how Mary talked to Tom on several occasions -- if the show were continuing, I'd say, there's trouble in paradise brewing ... just another reason to hope that Edith and Bertie make a go of it and provide Tom with a plan B ... Mary's entitlement issues seem about to erase her humanity (which also bodes poorly for her new marriage). Tom seemed resigned rather than appalled when it became obvious Mary was going to use "Edith's Secret" against her. I still wonder what Henry knew about any of this on his wedding day (given that he is now an official member of the family and there must have been some undercurrent to strain within the family resulting from Edith's sudden departure and stink in the air permeating the days leading up to his (first) nuptials).   

While I can understand Mary's reluctance to admit that there's a bastard child in the family, I think Henry has a right to know, since it's not a skeleton but a 2+ year old littler girl in the family closet. 

[izabella]

I forgot to mention, Mary's spangled black evening dress was to die for, and I also loved her wedding suit and hat. The characters on the show may disappoint, the costumes never.

 

That dress was gorgeous!!

 

Yes, for someone who protested so much that Henry was there and how much she didn't want him there, she certainly dressed to kill that evening.  She must have told Anna to pick out an extra-smart outfit for the evening.

Edited February 23, 2016 by izabella

[Constantinople]

I'm a little skeptical that the newspaper headlines

 

Is it possible the point wasn't that a Marquess had died, but that he died IN TANGIERS, aka the Boystown of North Africa, you know, nudge nudge, wink wink.

It's certainly possible to read between the lines of

 

The 6th Marquess of Hexham, 39, has died on holiday in Tangiers where he was a frequent visitor. The cause is given as Malaria. Lord Hexham was unmarried.

but perhaps that's projecting information we have as viewers that the newspaper writer wouldn't necessarily have had.

I wonder though if they wouldn't have tried to be just a little bit more salacious.

 

Did Tangier have that reputation back then?

 

I didn't know, but a quick Google search turned up this in Google books

 

In the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, North Africa and the Middle East were cherised destinations for European male writers and artists seeking to visit "Oriental civilization" for sexual pleasures and erotic satisfaction...In the 1920s, Morocco, then a French-Spanish colony, became the favored homosexual "hot spot". The reputation of the capital, Tangier, as a site of sexual opportunities was enhanced by its designation as an International Zone (1923-1956), which enabled a range of illicit activities to flourish, including sex work involving boys, drug trafficking, and monetary speculation.

Gay Tourism: Culture and Context, p. 51

So I guess my skepticism was unwarranted.

Upon reflection, the headline was practically screaming Homo Hexham Dies on Gaycation.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Constantinople

[izabella]

It's strange, what I found really jarring was how Mary talked to Tom on several occasions -- if the show were continuing, I'd say, there's trouble in paradise brewing ... just another reason to hope that Edith and Bertie make a go of it and provide Tom with a plan B ... Mary's entitlement issues seem about to erase her humanity (which also bodes poorly for her new marriage). Tom seemed resigned rather than appalled when it became obvious Mary was going to use "Edith's Secret" against her. I still wonder what Henry knew about any of this on his wedding day (given that he is now an official member of the family and there must have been some undercurrent to strain within the family resulting from Edith's sudden departure and stink in the air permeating the days leading up to his (first) nuptials).   

While I can understand Mary's reluctance to admit that there's a bastard child in the family, I think Henry has a right to know, since it's not a skeleton but a 2+ year old littler girl in the family closet. 

 

From what we've seen on the show, Henry knows nothing about Pamuk and his death, nothing about Marigold and Edith, and not much about Mary, good or bad. 

 

Mary knows even less about him.  Were any of Henry's family even at his wedding?  What secrets does he have in his past? 

[Capricasix]

I am so distracted by the title of "Marquess." It seems like that should be a woman's title!

I believe that "marquess" is an Anglicized spelling of the Continental "marquis".

[Artymouse]

 

 

Mary knows even less about him.  Were any of Henry's family even at his wedding?  What secrets does he have in his past? 

 

I saw Lady Shackleton in the congregation during the wedding. Isn't she Henry's aunt or great-aunt? I think she's the one who said 40 strong men would have to drop dead for Henry to inherit the title.

[mightycrone]

I know it was meant to be a lighter storyline, but the Mrs. Patmore bit did not entertain me as intended. 

 

 

Agreed.  The whole thing was off, and it seemed out of character for Mrs. Hughes to join in (but not out of character for Anna to spill the beans to Queen Mary-- that felt spot-on).  

[RedHawk]

Anna was just relieved that Bates' most recent murder had not yet come to light.

[mightycrone]

   

While I can understand Mary's reluctance to admit that there's a bastard child in the family, I think Henry has a right to know, since it's not a skeleton but a 2+ year old littler girl in the family closet. 

 

Right.  But that would resemble something like an adult relationship, and not a hastily conceived teen infatuation, played unconvincingly by thirty somethings.