S02.E07: Episode 7

[starri]

It's amazing that the secretary showed Taylor a tiny bit kindness and by doing that saved lives. Then it was all ruined by Wes' homophobic macho ass. IMO, that shooting was self defense but no one will ever know that. So many bad decisions coming from everywhere yet Anne is dragged through the mud for the good decision she made years ago to get some help.

 

The saddest thing for me is that no matter what happens Taylor's life is over. He's looking at prison and/or a psych ward and even if he gets out at 18 he will always be a "school shooter." There's no happy ending even possible.

I am going to hang on the hope that Eric will feel guilty enough to tell someone about the team getting him to set up Taylor to get jumped.  Because if it's not, I don't think I'm going to last through the finale without antidepressants and a lot of booze.

[WInterfalls]

This show is amazing to watch but it's just soul crushing. I was so sad last night I'm not sure I've ever been so affect by a show. I spent the whole episode going "Please Taylor don't. Don't do something stupid."

[Bobbin]

The continuously grim turn of events in this show and the unlikelihood of a satisfying ending make me think of an "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" episode that involved juvenile delinquency and gang violence. After a tragic ending, Hitchcock appeared as usual for the epilogue, but said if you were expecting the usual wry ironic twist to this story, there isn't one, that juvenile violence is a tragedy and not to be trivialized with a clever twist.

The most I hope to see to come from this show is awarenes, that what we say or do (or don't say or do) can have unending ripples, that everyone's life is far more complex than what anyone else can know just from appearances, and that everyone needs a hug now and then, some more than others. Hugs are free and in endless supply -- apply generously.

[elzin]

There is hope here somewhere?  I wish I could find it.  This seems nothing but grim to me, and I don't see where the hope lies for any of them.  It's really depressing and they just keep pilling more on top.

I thought the mother's love was a little hopeful, the sympathy from the secretary. Not a lot of hope, but it's just SLIGHTLY less bleak than S1.

[formerlyfreedom]

I know someone said earlier that it just seems like a pile on, that these things just kept happening. I agree with that, but then, isn't that how a lot of incidents happen in reality? Not just gun violence, but almost so many types of incidents snowball, and take on a life of their own, that it feel like it's powerless to stop it.

 

This show is utterly fascinating and heartbreaking.

[Neurochick]

I think what comes from this show, is how social media has changed what bullying once was.  Had it not been for social media, Taylor would have been raped just once.  There would have been no pictures, no suspension.  Perhaps he might have talked to Eric, maybe he would have told his mother and his mother would have gone to the police, but at least Taylor would have felt more in control of the situation.  Just my two cents. 

[Happytobehere]

Article about this episode: https://tvline.com/2016/02/17/american-crime-school-shooting-season-2-connor-jessup/

[sjohnson]

When these mass shooters finally carry out their plan it's to get everyone they feel wronged them which usually includes parents. There are often multiple locations they plan to target (home, school, parent's place of business) to get everyone so the instruction was twofold- A) getting another potential victim away from danger and B) clearing the space to take him out.

Well, this is certainly the mythology promoted by law enforcement. I don't think their views are at all reliable. Most of all I suspect the notion of planning is re-defined beyond the bounds of reason. None of these alleged planners ever plans an escape route. And when there are mass killers targeting family, as I remember that's usually where they start. And moving to multiple locations has happened a few times, it's not at all the norm, nor is it a group that overlaps workplace and school shooters. 

 

I am going to hang on the hope that Eric will feel guilty enough to tell someone about the team getting him to set up Taylor to get jumped. 

Eric doesn't do guilt. 

[represent]

 

There were no witnesses to the dead kid screaming "I'll kill you" at Taylor.

But at the time the deceased kid walked up to Taylor as he was leaving and grabbed him by the arm, there were witnesses then. I know I saw other kids walking in as that kid grabbed Taylor, so there has got to be one of them who saw that the aggression began with that kid and not Taylor.  They all seemed to be inside by the time the gun was fired, but I think it sounded like the change of class bell rang and kids were coming and going so...

 

The real problem is going to be that notebook with the list of names that he left behind, that notebook will be used to prove premeditation.

Edited February 18, 2016 by represent

[joelene]

Never before have I contemplated giving up on a show for being too heartbreaking. I'm exhausted and so fucking sad right now.

[isitpink]

New here, so apologies in advance if I'm screwing up the format!

I'm puzzled about Sebastian and his role in this mess. I feel like I'm missing something important where he's concerned. Why does this episode description state that he tries engaging Ann again? Did I miss the first attempt?

[represent]

 

While Anne may have not been the best mother a few years ago, she tries her damndest to get into Taylor's head to see who he is as a person.  She didn't care that he was gay. She wanted to help him when he wouldn't help himself. She stays with him to the very end. She doesn't care that they are destroying her life. She just wants her son to be able to have one.

 

 

Thanks, this is a bit of preciousness.

New here, so apologies in advance if I'm screwing up the format!

I'm puzzled about Sebastian and his role in this mess. I feel like I'm missing something important where he's concerned. Why does this episode description state that he tries engaging Ann again? Did I miss the first attempt?

This confused me as well. They only have three episodes left, so it'll be interesting to see how he fits into this all.

I'm thinking that something he's got in those computers of his will help in terms of Taylor's defense.  

 

Because if nothing else it MUST be revealed that this boy was drugged, raped and I think even repeatedly raped. Because I'm not ruling out that the gang only beat him up...No one believes that Taylor is a victim of anything. So his life is ruined yes, but  if he must serve time, hopefully it won't be in a prison, but in a mental facility.  Good lord, could you imagine sending him to prison where he might be raped again?So whatever happens, this must be revealed beyond a shadow of a doubt the months of trauma that he has suffered. This show needs to at least give us that for crying out loud and this is where I think Sebastian may be of some assistance. 

 

OK, now I'm going to take another break from thinking about this show.

Edited February 18, 2016 by represent

[Eolivet]

Thanks to all for the clarification that Eric's "date" seemingly didn't target him initially to rape him, but snapped at Eric's outburst and attacked Eric, and then Eric initiated the violence. I have no idea why, but for some reason, a "heat of the moment" confrontation is somehow easier to take than thinking Eric was targeted for premeditated rape and escaped a vicious predator. There's just so much hopelessness in this story, I couldn't take that on top of everything else.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Thanks to all for the clarification that Eric's "date" seemingly didn't target him initially to rape him, but snapped at Eric's outburst and attacked Eric, and then Eric initiated the violence. I have no idea why, but for some reason, a "heat of the moment" confrontation is somehow easier to take than thinking Eric was targeted for premeditated rape and escaped a vicious predator. There's just so much hopelessness in this story, I couldn't take that on top of everything else.

 

I know, they really heaped the abuse on our souls this episode. 

 

I thought they were trying to draw a parallel between Eric actively seeking out a homosexual experience under dangerous circumstances with poorly laid out boundaries, and Taylor doing the exact same thing. Do Eric and the man who attempted to rape Eric both see themselves as not having committed a sex crime because the victim had implied they wanted it? I have never understood why consent is viewed as such a murky thing. If someone is unconscious, or too intoxicated to operate heavy machinery, or has said the word no--I don't care if they admitted to having every rape fantasy in the world--if someone can't or DOES say no, you can't have sex with them. Period. That's where I think this season is successful. They've really hammered in that message, and despite it feeling heavy handed, I don't feel like it's been in a preachy way (which is where Law & Order: SVU fails, sometimes).

 

PS here's a bunny for spiritual healing.

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[Wilson Cat]

I don't ever remember seeing anything this powerful and emotional since the best episodes of "Homicide: Life on the Street" back in the day.  When the sound went off during the confrontation between Taylor and Wes I literally got cold shivers.  Everything about this painful, grueling, wonderful episode was spot on.  Every actor (Lili Taylor is a goddess of acting) and every screen shot, the writing, the script, the silences....perfect.  This powerful season has managed to incorporate so many of the issues we are facing in our world today.   Sexual orientation.  Adolescent angst.  Gun violence.  The way the wired world can ruin a life in an instant and go on ruining. School shootings.  Private schools that are bastions of privilege and prejudice.  The challenges of parenting.  Sexual molestation, and sexual violence.  I don't know what the final three episodes will bring, but seriously doubt that any one of them, or even all three put together will come close to the overwhelming hopelessness and sadness illustrated by this one amazing episode.  And I was thinking...."Oh this show is moving so slowly....."

[izabella]

I think what comes from this show, is how social media has changed what bullying once was.  Had it not been for social media, Taylor would have been raped just once.  There would have been no pictures, no suspension.  Perhaps he might have talked to Eric, maybe he would have told his mother and his mother would have gone to the police, but at least Taylor would have felt more in control of the situation.  Just my two cents. 

 

My non-existent kids would be so glad I'm not their mom - I would under no circumstances be giving any of them smart phones, if they got any phones.  Maybe an old technology flip phone so I could keep tabs on them.

 

This whole show, I am blaming the parents. A child got suspended for getting raped (ok, I know that's not why, it's the social media pictures of a drunk Taylor that got him suspended). So the parents know that the co-captains host a drinking and sex party every year - why are they not up in arms?  1) This is a known event that the Coach was aware of, 2) alcohol and drugs at this party, 3) camera phones everywhere taking pictures of the drunk and high kids (I doubt Taylor's pics were the only pics posted on social media of the party), and 4) someone's child got hurt at that party, could have been THEIR particular child and could be their particular child NEXT TIME. 

 

These parents don't seem to give a shit unless their kid is suspended or arrested, otherwise, carry on kids, business as usual.  At least the parents at the other school are protesting what they perceive to be racial injustices.  Leyland parents?  Ostriches.

 

I mean, did Kevin even get into any trouble for hosting that party?  Consequences?  Like, "You are grounded from any partying and friend time with your buddies because you hosted a party at OUR house where there was alcohol, drugs, and a rape.  You go to school, practice, games and the rest of the time you are scrubbing the basement floor with a toothbrush for a month, got it?  Oh, and give me your phone."

 

My parents did not let me out of house to go to late night parties and to drive around drunk.  Step #1 in preventing this kind of bullshit and all the parents failed.

Edited February 18, 2016 by izabella

[ToukieSmith]

 

My parents did not let me out of house to go to late night parties and to drive around drunk.  Step #1 in preventing this kind of bullshit and all the parents failed.

 

My parents kept close tabs on me as well.  I remember many arguments with my Dad about going out and he was adamant that I was going to stay at home.

 

My mother would never allow a party in her house with a bunch kids unchaperoned.  She would not allow kids to get drunk or have sex in her house either.  If I had thrown this type of party (or any type of party) at my parent's house without them knowing, my ass would have been grass.

[stagmania]

I don't know that I have anything particularly insightful to add to the discussion here, so I'll just join the chorus and say that this was stunning, I'm upset, and I'm very concerned for Anne and Taylor's futures.

 

One thing I'm wondering: now that they showed us those few flashbacks with slivers of information about the night in question, can we expect to get more? Or was that just a tease for a mystery this show has no intention of solving? At this point I have no doubt Taylor was raped, but the way it happened and who was really involved continue to be question marks. For instance, given the flashback image of him and his presence on Taylor's list, I assume Kevin must have done something. Wes, too. There's a reason they're so invested in forcing Taylor to stay quiet. I'm not sure if I can expect the show to let us in on the full story, or if I should just resign myself to never knowing.

[represent]

 

 

My parents kept close tabs on me as well.  I remember many arguments with my Dad about going out and he was adamant that I was going to stay at home.

My mother would never allow a party in her house with a bunch kids unchaperoned.  She would not allow kids to get drunk or have sex in her house either.  If I had thrown this type of party (or any type of party) at my parent's house without them knowing, my ass would have been grass.

Yep, I couldn't go to anybody's house unless my parents had spoken to their parents. My mother was always like, I don't know who else is living there?  She would say, I know (insert friend's name) but I don't know her parents, I don't know the people who run through her house. 

 

I'll never forget when I first started college, going with my two new "friends" to see their "boyfriends" in their dorm room. When I got there I went in and they were smoking blunts it looked like, marijuana....I got out of there so fast, I was angry at myself for even stepping foot in the door. 

 

Those two dumb bitches, LOL, for all I know they could have been setting me up to be raped, who the hell knows. And there's a no drug policy on every college campus, I knew that too and with that I was out. I was like Jesus Christ, I cannot devastate my parents like that, because even though I wasn't smoking anything, when school officials busted in the room, everyone in the room goes down, period.  At that point, I made the decision that if those two "friends" ever saw me again it would only be in class or at the dining hall. This is the kind of judgement and thinking that a young person has to have to not make horrible life mistakes that they can't come back from. 

 

Yeah, but every one just wants to have fun, I can't live like that. I'm always going to think about consequences that I'm not even remotely trying to live with.

Edited February 18, 2016 by represent

[tennisgurl]

Alan Sepinwall just posted an article about how he misjudged the show in an earlier review where he basically called it "meh", and how it has now become a legitimately great drama. I am right there with him. The first few episodes were a little scattered. I was interested enough to keep going, but it took me awhile to really grab me. But now that it has, its not letting me go. I will take the flourishes of pretentious that still sneak in (dancers performing the rape scene, the random spoken word opener) to get to scenes of Taylor and his mom in the corner of the diner, waiting for the cops to come. Its honestly one of the most thought provoking things on TV now. 

 

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/i-was-wrong-american-crime-is-a-great-tv-drama

[RedheadZombie]

I'm going to have to re-watch because I'm still digesting.  My first two take aways.

 

I wasn't happy about what happened to Eric, but since I thought it was his father punching him in the preview, I was sort of relieved.

 

I wish Anne's history would have been something other than a breakdown.  I see the implication being that Taylor had inherent mental illness that he inherited from his mother, and all his teammates, schoolmates, the school, and Kevin's asshole parents being excused.

[Happytobehere]

 Because if nothing else it MUST be revealed that this boy was drugged, raped and I think even repeatedly raped. Because I'm not ruling out that the gang only beat him up...No one believes that Taylor is a victim of anything. So his life is ruined yes, but  if he must serve time, hopefully it won't be in a prison, but in a mental facility.  Good lord, could you imagine sending him to prison where he might be raped again?So whatever happens, this must be revealed beyond a shadow of a doubt the months of trauma that he has suffered. This show needs to at least give us that for crying out loud and this is where I think Sebastian may be of some assistance. 

 

OK, now I'm going to take another break from thinking about this show.

This is where I'm at. Something about Taylor throughout the show and the way Wes approached him made me think they team did more than physically assault him -- which naturally opens the door to the initial rape and the persistent questions of how many of the players were involved in what happened.

[PQuinn]

My current theory is what happened the night of the captain's party will be revealed in the court case i.e. they'll show us what happened in a flashback. I mean, yes, it's very The Accused, but it's all I got right now.

Edited February 19, 2016 by PQuinn

[Woebegone]

I don't know that I have anything particularly insightful to add to the discussion here, so I'll just join the chorus and say that this was stunning, I'm upset, and I'm very concerned for Anne and Taylor's futures.

 

One thing I'm wondering: now that they showed us those few flashbacks with slivers of information about the night in question, can we expect to get more? Or was that just a tease for a mystery this show has no intention of solving? At this point I have no doubt Taylor was raped, but the way it happened and who was really involved continue to be question marks. For instance, given the flashback image of him and his presence on Taylor's list, I assume Kevin must have done something. Wes, too. There's a reason they're so invested in forcing Taylor to stay quiet. I'm not sure if I can expect the show to let us in on the full story, or if I should just resign myself to never knowing.

 

I've been fairly sympathetic to Eric throughout this show, but the flashback of him saying "Be fun. Just be fun." was the creepiest thing ever. Even though we don't see what followed, it's hard not to imagine Taylor being uncooperative and Eric doing something to to make him 'fun'.

 

I think Wes might have been targeted because he was the ringleader of the crew who beat him up, but I guess it's plausible that he might have had some involvement at the party as well. Kevin's involvement, in my opinion, is the other shoe that is about to drop. He's the ace that the writer's have been keeping up their sleeves this whole time. I don't have a great deal of confidence that we will know everything that happened at that party, but we will definitely know more than we do now.

 

Something the show has been doing consistently is the avoiding of easy characterizations. Sometimes shit happens and the people who are wronged aren't always the people we would prefer to sympathize with. 

[Dowel Jones]

I missed something during the episode.  Was the settlement conference between Leslie and Evy's father a flashback to the previously alluded to event in the school's history?  He didn't look familiar.

 

Anne wasn't having any part of Sebastian's overtures because, at that point, she can't trust anyone, and he could just as easily be some kind of plant to further smear her reputation.

 

Thanks for the puppies and the bunny. 

[starri]

By the time the story is over, John Oliver owes us a tiny hamster eating a tiny burrito.

[Neurochick]

My non-existent kids would be so glad I'm not their mom - I would under no circumstances be giving any of them smart phones, if they got any phones.  Maybe an old technology flip phone so I could keep tabs on them.

 

 

 

The problem isn't what your kids have, it's what other kids might have.  You might not give your kids a smart phone, but what about their friends?  They might all have smart phones and that's the issue.  Social media has changed the game.

 

As for the kid who threatened Taylor, I don't think you have the right to shoot someone just because they say, "I'm going to kill you," unless they actually try to kill you right then and there.

 

The interesting thing with the secretary was that she was the first adult from Leyland who told Taylor the truth, that what happened to him was awful.  I think that was the reason he left the school, because FINALLY somebody, an adult from that school said, "I think what happened to you sucked and you got a bum deal."

 

I thought it was very interesting that Taylor sought out his mom after the shooting.  The thing is, teenagers may think they're grown, but they're still children who need and want the support and guidance from an adult.

[sugarbaker design]

Alan Sepinwall just posted an article about how he misjudged the show in an earlier review where he basically called it "meh", and how it has now become a legitimately great drama.

 

 

That's a great example of why I can't trust TV critics.  AS knew it was a limited series of 10 or so episodes with a beginning, a middle and an end.  Yet he judges the show (and influences readers) based on a few early episodes, that's like judging a good novel by it's first chapters.  AC is great TV drama because it takes its time, sharpens its characterizations, unfolds the plot and surprises.  You can't get this kind of methodical pacing from binge-watching.  I feel bad for the viewers who opted out of watching AC because of AS's short-sighted critiques.

[gunderda]

I thought Kevin's involvement at the party was hinted at again because he was the second person on Taylor's list after Eric, which is interesting because Taylor didn't mention him at all when he was questioned by police. And Kevin's own version of events places him well out of the way of what we've been told happened. So he's definitely involved, maybe not as the primary assailant (which still seems to be Eric at this point), but enough to warrant a place on Taylor's enemies list.

Yes I think that is VERY important piece to some behind the scenes of this show's story. 

[isitpink]

I agree Kevin plays a bigger role than has been revealed. He was very sly in planting the idea about beating Taylor up. He planted that thought and then quickly excused himself to let them do the dirty work. He was sexually aggressive with his girlfriend. After being suspended from school, Eric was angry with Kevin for letting him take all the blame, as if he knew Kevin played a bigger role than just co-hosting the party. Anxious to see this play out and might re watch all the episodes to pick up on things I've missed.

[Woebegone]

I agree Kevin plays a bigger role than has been revealed. He was very sly in planting the idea about beating Taylor up. He planted that thought and then quickly excused himself to let them do the dirty work. He was sexually aggressive with his girlfriend. After being suspended from school, Eric was angry with Kevin for letting him take all the blame, as if he knew Kevin played a bigger role than just co-hosting the party. Anxious to see this play out and might re watch all the episodes to pick up on things I've missed.

That's something that I've found interesting too -- justly or not, Eric genuinely seems to believe he wasn't responsible for what happened on the night of the Captain's party. After his suicide attempt, he tells the Coach that he suspended him "for nothing". It makes him sound like a monster without a conscience, but we still don't know exactly what he did or did not do at that party. Maybe he didn't actually 'do' anything (remember Becca's talk with her mom?) or maybe he really is a monster.

I know some people have taken his rant on the minivan as a confession of sorts to the rape, but I'm not so sure. I mean, he basically reiterates the line he has been touting this entire time -- Taylor wanted it and then changed his mind. The way he said it makes it sound like Taylor changed his mind before the sex, but he could also have meant that Taylor changed his mind afterwards, as he told the police. And anyways, if we're accepting this new version of events (that Taylor changed his mind before or midway and then Eric forced him) it's still at odds with Taylor's story that he was drugged and unable to say yes or no.

Or maybe Taylor changed his mind way before and then Eric drugged him? I guess that works too.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Has American Crime Been Showing Us Warning Signs With Taylor All Along?
And more not-quite-burning questions sparked by the latest episode.

[Neurochick]

I think that Eric's encounter with the hook-up was supposed to mirror what happened between Eric and Taylor.  

 

Taylor told Eric he wanted the "rough stuff."  Eric doesn't understand why Taylor said he was raped if, to Eric's mind, he gave Taylor what he wanted.

 

The problem is this, when it comes to sex, there should be some level of intimacy, a level of trust.  If rough stuff is involved, both parties need to know what the other person's limit is.  

 

Taylor and Eric weren't lovers, they knew each other but they weren't a couple, they weren't intimate.  They were two guys going to hook up.  But then you add rough shit AND drugs to that and that's a recipe for disaster because now one person is impaired and unable to tell the other what his limits are, and since they're not a couple, they don't know each other's limits.  Yes, Taylor was raped, he was impaired and wan't able to tell Eric yes or no and maybe Eric didn't realize how the impaired Taylor was

 

The hook up guy was a stranger to Eric, just like he was a stranger to Taylor.  

[iMonrey]

Do we know for certain the kid Taylor shot died? I can't remember if they specified that.

 

I did not recognize the drug dealing girl as the Coach's daughter, that's how poorly they have done in establishing that character. Or, to be generous, how poorly I do at remembering faces - but we have so much going on here it's tough to grasp it all.

 

Some of the more creative editing is doing this show no favors. I could not figure out if Taylor literally moved from the waiting area to a dance rehearsal room or if he was imagining it. What on earth would compel him to go watch a dance rehearsal? Would they even just let him wander around visiting various rooms when he doesn't even go there anymore? Would those two dancers want this rando watching them rehearse - or even more likely - a kid who became somewhat infamous at that school? That whole scene was baffling. Once Taylor started taking the drugs it became difficult to ascertain what was real and what he was remembering or hallucinating. 

 

Fascinating as I find this story, the further it moves forward the more I fear we're never going to really get a clear picture of what really happened at the party. I really don't care to invest 10 hours of time just to be left hanging.

[Auntie Anxiety]

 

I think that Eric's encounter with the hook-up was supposed to mirror what happened between Eric and Taylor.

That's what I thought too.  A sexual encounter can go awry very quickly if the two parties don't really know each other.  Eric found out how it feels when you tell the other party to stop and s/he doesn't stop.  

 

Kevin totally manipulated those teammates into beating up Taylor, just like Leslie manipulates everyone into doing her bidding.  Finally Coach Dan is on to her.  I find Leslie to be a compelling figure; she is probably doing what she was hired to do, i.e., being a spin meister for the private school, taking whatever accusations are tossed their way and turning them into blaming someone else, making false accusations and not giving a shit about who gets hurt. In my opinion, she is has no soul.

[represent]

 

I think that Eric's encounter with the hook-up was supposed to mirror what happened between Eric and Taylor.

 

 

 

 

That's what I thought too.  A sexual encounter can go awry very quickly if the two parties don't really know each other.  Eric found out how it feels when you tell the other party to stop and s/he doesn't stop.

 

 

That's what I thought too. I've also thought that if Eric did truly rape Taylor, I'd buy it because rape is about anger and control and he has long come off to me as someone who was repressing so much anger. He is/was his attacker. That man was angry, feeling like he had to live a double life and it drove him to commit a violent act. As Eric went on and on about his situation, he was reflecting out loud what his attacker was feeling inside, something that the attacker actually stated he didn't want to face. I think he said he didn't want to hear "this stuff" or something to that effect.  He said something about getting away from his life and trying to be himself...

Edited February 19, 2016 by represent

[stagmania]

That's a great example of why I can't trust TV critics.  AS knew it was a limited series of 10 or so episodes with a beginning, a middle and an end.  Yet he judges the show (and influences readers) based on a few early episodes, that's like judging a good novel by it's first chapters.  AC is great TV drama because it takes its time, sharpens its characterizations, unfolds the plot and surprises.  You can't get this kind of methodical pacing from binge-watching.  I feel bad for the viewers who opted out of watching AC because of AS's short-sighted critiques.

 

That's his job, though-early reviews are a big part of the television promotion game. That's why screeners even exist, so that shows can get critics to write early reviews, with the full knowledge that they won't necessarily be positive. He didn't do anything but fulfill his professional obligation, and on top of that, he took the time to revisit and promote the show when he saw what he perceived to be an upturn in quality. Not really sure how you can fault him for that.

[Rock knocker]

Do we know for certain the kid Taylor shot died? I can't remember if they specified that.

 

In the preview for next week,

they showed a scene where coach was addressing the student body and stated that a former student came to the school and shot and killed Wes.

Edited February 20, 2016 by saoirse
Please spoiler tag preview information for future episodes

[Woebegone]

I think that Eric's encounter with the hook-up was supposed to mirror what happened between Eric and Taylor.  

 

Taylor told Eric he wanted the "rough stuff."  Eric doesn't understand why Taylor said he was raped if, to Eric's mind, he gave Taylor what he wanted.

 

The problem is this, when it comes to sex, there should be some level of intimacy, a level of trust.  If rough stuff is involved, both parties need to know what the other person's limit is.  

 

Taylor and Eric weren't lovers, they knew each other but they weren't a couple, they weren't intimate.  They were two guys going to hook up.  But then you add rough shit AND drugs to that and that's a recipe for disaster because now one person is impaired and unable to tell the other what his limits are, and since they're not a couple, they don't know each other's limits.  Yes, Taylor was raped, he was impaired and wan't able to tell Eric yes or no and maybe Eric didn't realize how the impaired Taylor was

 

The hook up guy was a stranger to Eric, just like he was a stranger to Taylor.  

I can see that. I mean, it's not a perfect parallel because Taylor was drugged and couldn't fight back and Eric was sober and clearly could, but they're both not heterosexual and though their circumstances are different, they share similar risks in pursuing sex in the conservative neighborhood they both live in.

 

I actually saw the guy with the minivan, Todd, as kind of an older version of Eric and that the attack was maybe a metaphor for Eric confronting the person he could still become. If that's the case, I hope it's a good sign that he won.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Woebegone

[nutty1]

I just finished watching this week's show. I don't think I moved or even blinked through it. What a powerful episode it was. I cannot even imagine what the last few episodes will hold. I didn't watch last season but I know it won't all be wrapped up neatly with a bow. My heart broke for Taylor and his mom. Do you think the list of names were really people he wanted to kill?
I cannot wait to see what happens with Sebastian and his character.

Edited February 20, 2016 by nutty1

[Bishop]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Eric admit that he raped Taylor in this episode?  He told random guy in the car that he knew a kid who was curious and then he started screaming that "he didn't want it."  Eric then said the kid was a bitch.  Afterwards, the guy listening to him said that Eric had a lot of anger in him.  So was that an admission of rape on Eric's part?  I think it was.  

 

I agree that Taylor is completely screwed.  I mean my heart breaks for that kid.  His mom is a good person who is trying her best, but she was victimized too.  I hate that Taylor is now a "killer," and it's true that the list he left looks like a hit list when we know he just reacted in the moment  Granted, he shouldn't have brought a gun to school, but was continually being victimized.  It IS a depressing story, but it's an excellent dramatic one.  Kudos to all the actors.

[Empress1]

I'm battling anxiety and depression right now (with the help of a therapist), and I'm finding that I can't watch shows that are very dark and heavy right before I go to sleep because it messes me up. So I didn't watch this until this morning. I've been watching all season long (though didn't watch the first season).

 

... Y'all, when it was over, I looked at my phone to remember the nice conversations (voice to voice, not texting) I had yesterday with my mom and one of my best friends, to remember that there's some good. And then I went for a bike ride, which is one of my favorite things to do. I felt like I needed to be in motion after that. I felt wrung out.

 

Lili Taylor in that last scene, when she insisted to the dispatcher that she would. Not. Leave. Her. Son, slid closer to him in the booth and held him close, and her face crumpled as she heard the sirens and knew nothing would be the same, or OK, again? I cried. Her work in the restaurant starting from the moment she saw the broadcast was a master class. In acting, and in doing the hard thing. I was riveted - I wanted to look away because everything was so awful, but I couldn't.

[Woebegone]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Eric admit that he raped Taylor in this episode? He told random guy in the car that he knew a kid who was curious and then he started screaming that "he didn't want it." Eric then said the kid was a bitch. Afterwards, the guy listening to him said that Eric had a lot of anger in him. So was that an admission of rape on Eric's part? I think it was.

The short answer is probably not. The long answer is that what he said in the minivan is consistent with his statement to the police that Taylor wanted it, but changed is mind after the party and accused him of rape.

[sara416]

I have not watched a show this intensely since Breaking Bad. I'm usually doing something else when I watch tv (crochet, games on my phone, working on my laptop) but for this show, as I did for BB, I stop everything and just watch. Lilli Taylor is amazing and heart wrenching in every scene. I appreciate the bunnies and puppies as well because this episode was just so heartbreaking. 

[nutty1]

I have not watched a show this intensely since Breaking Bad. I'm usually doing something else when I watch tv (crochet, games on my phone, working on my laptop) but for this show, as I did for BB, I stop everything and just watch. Lilli Taylor is amazing and heart wrenching in every scene. I appreciate the bunnies and puppies as well because this episode was just so heartbreaking. 

 

 

Great analogy!!! I loved BB!!!! This may be even more intense.

[potatoradio]

I may feel differently after watching the entire season, but after this episode, I really wish they hadn't written a school shooting into the storyline. I keep waiting for the initial focus of the party and rape accusation to develop further - there's plenty there to develop. I was hoping for more nuance and depth of the original "problem." Bringing in another crisis point makes the story feel unfocused to me, not more dramatic.

And I don't see how interviews with real survivors is going to add much, any more than I thought the dancers and the spoken word added anything other than feeling tapped gently on the head with a two-by-four so that, you know, in case I missed it, school shootings and rape are REALLY AWFUL!! The actors convey that very powerfully already.

Anyway, this is still a show that I am completely riveted by and am very glad it's on the air - I've missed a quality, layered drama with top notch acting that's so compelling I want to watch it alone because I don't want real life interrupting at all while I watch.

Edited February 21, 2016 by potatoradio

[Tarataru]

I may feel differently after watching the entire season, but after this episode, I really wish they hadn't written a school shooting into the storyline. I keep waiting for the initial focus of the party and rape accusation to develop further - there's plenty there to develop. I was hoping for more nuance and depth of the original "problem." Bringing in another crisis point makes the story feel unfocused to me, not more dramatic. 

 

And I don't see how interviews with real survivors is going to add much, any more than I thought the dancers and the spoken word added anything other than feeling tapped gently on the head with a two-by-four so that, you know, in case I missed it, school shootings and rape are REALLY AWFUL!! The actors convey that very powerfully already.

 

Anyway, this is still a show that I am completely riveted by and am very glad its on the air - I've missed a quality, layered drama with top notch acting that's so compelling I want to watch it alone because I don't want real life interrupting at all while I watch. 

Connor Jessup (Taylor) said in a interview that the producer told him once something like "what would you think if the American crime hasnt happened yet." Therefore, it seems like they consider the main crime ironically to be the school shooting. 

[tom87]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Eric admit that he raped Taylor in this episode?  He told random guy in the car that he knew a kid who was curious and then he started screaming that "he didn't want it."  Eric then said the kid was a bitch.  Afterwards, the guy listening to him said that Eric had a lot of anger in him.  So was that an admission of rape on Eric's part?  I think it was.  

 

I do not think that is him admitting  to rape.   He is just saying Taylor wanted it and once it was done he was a bitch for saying he didn't want it.

 

 

I still want to know why they haven't taken a minute to even look into who spread the photos.   No matter if Taylor was raped or not he was victimized by the crowd taking pictures and posting them.   That escalated things more so then probably anyhting else.

[nutty1]

I do not think that is him admitting  to rape.   He is just saying Taylor wanted it and once it was done he was a bitch for saying he didn't want it.

 

 

I still want to know why they haven't taken a minute to even look into who spread the photos.   No matter if Taylor was raped or not he was victimized by the crowd taking pictures and posting them.   That escalated things more so then probably anyhting else.

 

Or how about who obtained and publicly spread Taylor's mom's medical records?

[Jazz42]

Is there such a thing as getting your guts ripped out in a good way? That was one amazing hour of television. Lili Taylor and especially Connor Jessup were beyond amazing. He had almost no dialogue and just broke my heart without saying a word. I was sure he was going to kill himself after accidentally shooting Wes. Then a small sigh of relief when he went to see Ann. But when she put the gun in her bag and walked away to answer the phone, I said, "No! He is going to take it!". Then when she saw he had it, I didn't realize it but I was holding my breath until she sat down with him and dialed 911. And in my head was just, "OhGodOhGodOhGod...." Because in other shows they build tension and drama, but in the back of your mind you know they won't go there. But you know this show would.

3 more hours left. I never expected a Happily Ever After for anyone. But I hope at least Taylor and Ann make it out ok, and will be shown as starting or on their way to healing.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Jazz42