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Person of Interest In The Media: The Machine Reads It All Before We Do

fastiller

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Agent Dark

Agent Dark

(edited)

Boo Hiss! 

 

I don't get the dates they stated in the article.  If they are planning to air the episodes starting May 3rd, they can't air the finale on June 21st.  That's only 9 weeks.  Aren't there 13 episodes?

Check the links in the Ratings and Scheduling thread - they're gonna air 2 episodes a week.

Edited by Agent Dark
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GHScorpiosRule
GHScorpiosRule

I am howling at WGN's promo for how both this show and Elementary can now be seen on the network.  Sherlock and Finch talk about how their show is better, with I have...we have, but the last line, whe

kwnyc
kwnyc

This is from social media (mine). My sister and I went out to have a couple of drinks last night and guess who we ran into?

stealinghome
stealinghome

Person of Interest won a PCA last night for Best Crime Drama. Go PoI! http://m.eonline.com/news/728774/2016-people-s-choice-awards-vin-diesel-sings-sharon-osbourne-kicks-a-stage-crasher-more-plus-the

stealinghome

stealinghome

Check the links in the Ratings and Scheduling thread - they're gonna air 2 episodes a week.

With a one-week break somewhere (otherwise the math doesn't work)--my guess is it would be the week of Memorial Day. You wouldn't think they'd air an episode on Memorial Day, so it seems natural to then skip the Tuesday episode as well.

 

It's kind of hilariously ironic though--even in maximum burnoff mode, CBS can't resist giving this show breaks!

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StarBrand

StarBrand

Well, can't say I didn't see the cancellation coming. However, I am very excited about how the writers resolve everything-which, at least, they got a 1/2 season to do, as opposed to nothing and leaving as uncertain of everyone's fate.

 

The best part about the abbreviated season is that the writers have absolutely no time for filler episodes

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Coxfires

Coxfires

As sad as I am to lose a clever and engaging show, this doesn't come as a surprise, and I guess it wasn't for the showrunners either. I guess they conceived the half-season with the intention of wrapping the story up in mind, which is great because they knew where they were going and how to get there. I'm pretty confident we will have a consistent and solid season thanks to that, so, as disappointed as I am to see PoI go, at least it will be with a bang.

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

Can't say I'm surprised by this. Actually, I'm surprised that TPTB had to "release" a statement that this show was cancelled. I think we all pretty much guessed that when we didn't hear news of its renewal, compounded by the fact it wasn't on the Fall schedule, and made worse by not telling us when it would air. Or is it that CBS just sat on their asses, being vague and coy, and then decided okay, I suppoooooose we should let the viewers/fans know "officially" that the show isn't coming back because if we don't, they're such idiots, they'll think our silence means it will come back for another season."

I'm cynical enough that I can believe they thought just this or something similar.

I'm sad it won't be back, but not devastated, because if it was, that would mean FUCKING ANNOYING Amy and Root would also come back.

I guess I'll just pull out my first and second season DVDs to get my Real live Batman Reese fix, and Frequency, The Count of Monte Cristo to get my Jim Caviezel fix.

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GodsBeloved

GodsBeloved

Or is it that CBS just sat on their asses, being vague and coy, and then decided okay, I suppoooooose we should let the viewers/fans know "officially" that the show isn't coming back because if we don't, they're such idiots, they'll think our silence means it will come back for another season."

 

This sentiment was expressed in some sectors of the fandom. Even when it was announced that Shahi was doing the Nancy Drew gig, some were saying she could/would pull double duty.

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Trey

Trey

Thanks for posting, even though it's bad news.  But pretty much what we expected.

 

Is that site really slow for anyone else?  It practically freezes up on me.

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stealinghome

stealinghome

Or is it that CBS just sat on their asses, being vague and coy, and then decided okay, I suppoooooose we should let the viewers/fans know "officially" that the show isn't coming back because if we don't, they're such idiots, they'll think our silence means it will come back for another season."

The best part is that CBS actually didn't announce it, though. The showrunners did, and CBS merely confirmed it after press reached out. So I bet, like with Mike & Molly (or to a lesser extent TGW), if the showrunners hadn't announced it, CBS would still be pretending the show wasn't canceled.
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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

(edited)

The best part is that CBS actually didn't announce it, though. The showrunners did, and CBS merely confirmed it after press reached out. So I bet, like with Mike & Molly (or to a lesser extent TGW), if the showrunners hadn't announced it, CBS would still be pretending the show wasn't canceled.

Ah. I missed that part. Thanks stealinghome.

But that doesn't negate my rant: the brass at CBS are assholes. With respect to this show, my ire and hate almost rivals my hate for the show runners who took over after the original left in Smallville. (Shut up! Don't judge me!!) and thisclose to my hate for Shane Brennan and the Kings.*

I have my own issues with Nolan and Plageman with siccing Amy whatsherface as a regular instead of a recurring psycho, and Shahi(yes, yes, I know I'm alone in this) and getting rid of Taraji, whose Carter I was finally warming up to. Only because they had hardons for the first two or something, and because one of their wives asked "where are the women?" as if Taraji was, what? A man in drag?

*stealinghome: you KNOW why!!!

But I will miss my Reese and Finch and BEAR!!!

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

(edited)

I am howling at WGN's promo for how both this show and Elementary can now be seen on the network.  Sherlock and Finch talk about how their show is better, with I have...we have, but the last line, when Sherlock tells Finch:

 

"I have a beautiful and alluring partner."

 

Finch pauses. "So do I."  Reese turns his head to look at Finch.  Finch turns to look at Reese.

 

Joan: "Awkward."

 

Me: Laughing.

 

Aw hell. Here's the promo.

 

 

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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Eln5

Eln5

I am howling at WGN's promo for how both this show and Elementary can now be seen on the network.  

 

Aw hell. Here's the promo.

Thank you for posting this, it is fantastic!

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

Thank you for posting this, it is fantastic!

 

 

You're welcome! And I agree!

 

I really love the look on Reese's face when he looks over at Finch--it says to me: 'Did you just call me beautiful and alluring?'

 

And when Finch looks back at him, it's like: 'Well, you are."

 

I can watch that promo over and over again!

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fastiller

fastiller

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I am howling at WGN's promo for how both this show and Elementary can now be seen on the network.

Remember way back when, when the first airings were shown on the same network on the same night?  Back to back on Thursdays.  I thought it was so nice to have them there, two NYC-based & filmed shows.

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tessaray

tessaray

Remember way back when, when the first airings were shown on the same network on the same night?  Back to back on Thursdays.  I thought it was so nice to have them there, two NYC-based & filmed shows.

 

I probably would have never tried Elementary if not for that. I thought the idea of a female Watson was too stupid.

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Gigi43

Gigi43

I rewound the beginning of that promo 3 times, at some point it looks like we're going ahead to 2017?! The season did end supposedly being in 2015, right?

 

I don't think it's just Amy Acker blinding me, I'm pretty convinced they're gonna go out Angel-style. I can't decide if Reese or Finch will get their own Wesley ending, though, it's looking like Finch but so much so it could be a misdirect as far as such a certain ending though.

 

Even with all the gloom Fusco saying "Nuclear Fuster Cluck" made me smile, as did Reese seemingly assaulting someone with a wedding/bridal gift. 

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marina to

marina to

That trailer really makes me want to give this season a pass. I'm one of those who got hooked in on the premise of the team saving people and fell in love because of the characters and the relationships between them. Stuff blowing up always bores me. Continuous angst bores me. I'm tired of the constant peril. Am I going to see any of the things I fell in love with? 

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tessaray

tessaray

I need Harold to finally connect with the Machine in a personal way.  Maybe not as personal as Root's, but the resistance he's displayed up until this point has to have a pay-off.

 

I see the explosions and fights mainly as filler.  The Root/Martine shoot-out was pretty cool though.  (I've been rewatching season 4 this last month, in preparation.) 

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stealinghome

stealinghome

I need Harold to finally connect with the Machine in a personal way.  Maybe not as personal as Root's, but the resistance he's displayed up until this point has to have a pay-off.

Well, his voiceover in the extended promo sounds relatively plaintive!

 

I agree that Harold's attitude toward The Machine needs to change a bit, though. I'm curious to see how he and Root negotiate rebuilding The Machine (and I'd also be curious to see Reese's take on their presumable philosophical differences), but TM basically dying for the team at the end of last season should lead to at least SOME adjustment of Finch's attitude.

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Princess Lucky

Princess Lucky

Well, his voiceover in the extended promo sounds relatively plaintive!

 

I agree that Harold's attitude toward The Machine needs to change a bit, though. I'm curious to see how he and Root negotiate rebuilding The Machine (and I'd also be curious to see Reese's take on their presumable philosophical differences), but TM basically dying for the team at the end of last season should lead to at least SOME adjustment of Finch's attitude.

 

Reese: Just turn it on, guys. Hit the power button. Press some keys. What's taking so long?

 

That trailer really makes me want to give this season a pass. I'm one of those who got hooked in on the premise of the team saving people and fell in love because of the characters and the relationships between them. Stuff blowing up always bores me. Continuous angst bores me. I'm tired of the constant peril. Am I going to see any of the things I fell in love with? 

 

I don't know about you but I saw a relationship happening in that trailer, lol.

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DNR

DNR

I just discovered POI during reruns on UGN channel and now I'm on Netflix trying to finish S1-4 before S5 on May 3. I'm enjoying the show and even got Mr. DNR into my POi binge watching. Love the chemistry between all the actors and hope to see JC and AA on my TV screen again soon ( shahi's got Nancy Drew ). Countdown to 2x per week SHOOT worship - DVR set !

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Driad

Driad

Local news radio station, a CBS affiliate, is running frequent promos for POI on the days when it will air.  Helpful for reminding viewers of the schedule.

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mtlchick

mtlchick

(edited)
On 4/16/2016 at 6:27 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I am howling at WGN's promo for how both this show and Elementary can now be seen on the network.  Sherlock and Finch talk about how their show is better, with I have...we have, but the last line, when Sherlock tells Finch:

 

"I have a beautiful and alluring partner."

 

Finch pauses. "So do I."  Reese turns his head to look at Finch.  Finch turns to look at Reese.

 

Joan: "Awkward."

 

Me: Laughing.

 

Aw hell. Here's the promo.

 

 

 

 

Oh I giggled snorted all right.  Thanks for that.  Side note: they're both pretty.  Equal opportunity.

Edited by mtlchick
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Kate213

Kate213

(edited)

Person of Interest's Amy Acker: Root's Bold, Selfless Move 'Makes Me Happy'

http://tvline.com/2016/05/31/person-of-interest-season-5-root-dies-amy-acker-interview/

What did you know and when did you know it, that Root wouldn’t last the season?
They actually told me over the summer, before [San Diego] Comic-Con. We had that trailer where The Machine was talking over the subway set — well, me as The Machine — so they told me what was going on and asked me to record that. So I’ve known for a while.

What do you think about the fact that she died taking a bullet for Harold?
I mean, that would be the way I would want to go. To me, she was never really afraid of dying. Throughout all of the storylines, especially between Root and Harold, she always made it clear that she knew he was the priority, that The Machine needed him and all of that. I’m glad that Harold made it. That makes me happy!

 

Looks like Root's really dead :(

Edited by Kate213
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Cranberry

Cranberry

Good interview, though. Another: Person of Interest: Amy Acker on the Huge Change to Her Role

IGN: What can you say about your role in the final episodes? We know you are the Machine now. We've seen Harold talk to you, but others have not yet, including Shaw. So can you talk at all about what your interaction might be like as we go into the final three episodes?

Acker: I think it goes back to what we were saying, like how much the Machine is just so Root. Like, it's indistinguishable between Machine and Root. So what I love in particular that comes up is that the Machine kind of maintains the same relationship with the characters as she's talking to them that Root would. So she takes on the same affinity for Shaw and talks to Reese the same way and everything. It just really seems like the Machine is kind of honoring Root, because she chose her and has made her -- it's like Root is there. Her body's not there, but she has all the same interactions with the characters. So I thought that was really interesting.

And one with the creators: Person of Interest Creators on the Big Twist in Episode 100

IGN: She might not be screaming to the heavens, but how is Shaw going to react? Also, she didn’t hear the Machine with Root's voice yet, so how might she process that?

Nolan: Yeah, it's a fun moment. I wish we had a little more time to explore these moments, but the pace of our show has always been a bit frantic. I think the way that I would put it is that the relationship between Root and Shaw changes, but it doesn't end. It takes on a new dimension. So there are more great moments for those two characters in store -- the idea that that relationship continues on into the infinite is something fun to play with.

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stealinghome

stealinghome

(edited)

Another one to add to the collection! http://tvline.com/2016/05/31/person-of-interest-season-5-episode-10-root-dies-elias-killed/

Make it two: http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/06/01/person-of-interest-amy-acker-on-the-huge-change-to-her-role

Okay, this is hilarious!

Quote

TVLINE | Even though that was your on-screen send-off, I reckon that as the voice of The Machine, you in fact got to be with the show until the very end?
Yes. Yes. It worked out that way. I was really sad and told everyone how much I was going to miss them, and then they were like, “Can you come back and do the voice on set…?” I was like, “I just gave everyone their goodbye!” We thought it would be advantageous for some of the bigger scenes to have me there, so in the next episode you’ll see Harold talking to The Machine in the car, and I’m laying down [unseen] in the back seat of the car having this conversation. [Laughs]

Edited by stealinghome
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Cranberry

Cranberry

The creators also did an interview with lesbian site AfterEllen: Exclusive: “Person of Interest” EPs on tonight’s shocking episode

Reading the comments there and on Tumblr, I'm glad that (most) wlw fans seem to be taking this pretty well. In my opinion, this is not the usual "bury your gays" situation and nowhere near the fustercluck that was The 100's Lexa death. It's unfortunate that Root died now, when lesbian and bisexual characters have been dropping like flies, but this was the creators' plan for her for literally years (before she and Shaw were even a consideration) and was a fitting end (that's not even really an end) to her story.

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stealinghome

stealinghome

46 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

The creators also did an interview with lesbian site AfterEllen: Exclusive: “Person of Interest” EPs on tonight’s shocking episode

Reading the comments there and on Tumblr, I'm glad that (most) wlw fans seem to be taking this pretty well. In my opinion, this is not the usual "bury your gays" situation and nowhere near the fustercluck that was The 100's Lexa death. It's unfortunate that Root died now, when lesbian and bisexual characters have been dropping like flies, but this was the creators' plan for her for literally years (before she and Shaw were even a consideration) and was a fitting end to her story.

This is really tricky ground, though. I find myself torn. Well, not about The 100--I agree that PoI is nowhere near the levels of fucked up that The 100 was! And JN and GP clearly took lessons on what NOT to do PR-wise from observing The 100, heh. But comparisons aside, I see both sides of the issue.

Like, on the one hand, I totally agree that this was done pretty well.* I've always thought Root would be a martyr to The Machine's cause, and I thought she was the next likeliest after Reese (who is totally dying in the series finale, I'm now quite sure) to bite it this season. Root has also always had the "The Machine is so much better than us" thing going on, so The Machine taking a dead Root as her avatar? Makes total sense for the character, both in terms of dying for the mission and her technological "apotheosis." I do believe that this was their plan for the character basically all along, and think there's something admirable in the fact that they stuck to their original vision for the character. Plus, they've been very upfront about Shoot not being a planned thing, so it's not like they designed Root to be a queer character knowing she would die all along (and I applaud that they went there, too, when they saw the Shoot chemistry--so many shows ignore chemistry in favor of predecided pairings that are just blah). And certainly Root had a great character arc--can't complain about how she changed from S1-S5--and this does seem to cap it off relatively fittingly ("The life I've lead, a good end would be a privilege").

But. But, but, but. On the other hand, a piece of media never exists in isolation. And for all that it was/might have been super organic to the storyline, the fact is still that they killed off one of their two queer characters. (Which gives the show...not a great track record in terms of the characters it chooses to kill, at least for the moment.) Because the thing is, the justification that JN and GP gave is the same one that The 100 showrunner gave. The same one that the Empire creative team gave. The same one that is always given--"well, the fantasticness of OUR WRITING means that we're exempt from being a part of that trope." Everyone always at least claims that (whether or not they believe it is a different question), and no. That's not how it works. You don't just get to opt out of being part of a trope, or decide that you don't count in the count, because you're a ~Special Snowflake. I don't get to say "I am not human because I've decided I'm not!" That's not how it works. So even if it was done better, I don't think PoI should get a pass just because their writing generally is better than on most other TV shows, because a) once you make an exception for one you have to make an exception for everyone who claims it and b) at the end of the day, still a dead lesbian. I saw a tag somewhere on tumblr that summed it up perfectly, it said something like "cool story, bros. Still killed your lesbian."

So. I'm torn. PoI did it better than most, but they still did it, and that's deeply disappointing regardless of the immediate pop culture context.

 

*HOWEVER. The other trope that Root's death falls into, sadly, is the fridged woman trope. And I find that really frustrating too--like I said, I've long thought Root would probably die, and her becoming kind of the avatar for The Machine makes a lot of sense (especially if they wanted to kill her before the series finale). But as I've been processing, I've been feeling like Root's death wasn't as epic as it ought to have been, and I think that's because they fundamentally killed her to motivate Finch. So something that should have been Root's story alone--her death but The Machine avatar'ing her--becomes subordinate to the larger "manpain so that Finch will get his rear in gear" story, which is disappointing. If this was Root's arc, it should've been Root's arc, not part of Finch's.

Also disappointing is that she died off-screen and alone. I get why they did it, 'cause they wanted the big reveal of the voice and we couldn't have that if we saw her die, but still: really, we didn't get to see the death??? And Root had to die alone on an operating table????? That just sucks. Dammit, even if it wasn't with Shaw, I wanted her to have her Carter moment, dying in the arms of someone she loves! Root's whole arc was basically opening herself up to human connection and finding her place/family/some facsimile of happiness, so to die without all that around her? What happened to "Root is not alone"? Sob.

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pennben

pennben

I hear everything you are saying about these tropes, but I feel like this show has treated all of these characters as more than tropes. Elias dying was all about motivating Finch as well as Root's death. Finch is the main character, lots have died in service of his development (which I guess is a trope in and of itself (I feel like I need Venn diagrams:)).

I get the BYG frustration, but at some point, as I think you are doing here, there needs to be distinctions between shows, because if every show that kills a character who is a lesbian is just lumped into every show that killed a lesbian character, it feels counterproductive. Like you said, this show just went with with Shaw/Root even though it wasn't planned and they seemed to know how Root would ultimately end prior to that.  Where I think all the lumping can be counterproductive is whether the next show will even go down that path that opens up if they will get lumped in with exploiters of lesbian characters going forward. What if there is a fantastic character in the future that was planned to be a lesbian but creators shied away because they knew the character's arc was going to end badly? 

I think no one wants that, which is why despite the noise from other lesser shows, good storytellers need to be recognized.

Anyway, just noodling with thoughts tonight, hope they make some sense.

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yellowfred

yellowfred

(edited)

Regarding the various potential tropes involved in Root's death, I tend to think it's still too early to tell.  

On the Fridged Woman level, like, obviously it had the most immediate effect on Harold's storyline (though I might argue that the Machine had the most significant reaction), which is not ideal, but we haven't really had the chance to see how it might affect the rest of the team.  Also, I tend to associate fridging with people being murdered purposefully (as in, by the in-story person who killed them) to elicit a particular reaction from the hero, which wasn't the case here.  

The Bury Your Gays trope is a little trickier, because, unlike fridging, it's ultimately not an issue with how something is framed, executed, or any other storytelling factor.  It fits the trope because she was a lesbian and now she's dead (or, ascended to non-corporeal god-hood, depending on how you want to view it).  There's nothing the show or the writers could do with her death that wouldn't fall into that trope, so the real question is whether or not the overall storyline that it's a part of ultimately pays off.  

Edited by yellowfred
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mtlchick

mtlchick

The way I see it, it's not like TV writers colluded to say "hey!  Let's see how many lesbians we can kill off in one season and how fast the interwebs pick up on it!"  Mind you I don't watch the 100 or Walking Dead or most of the shows that are part of the Bury Your Gays movement.  But for people who watched her character from the beginning with her obsession with the Machine and do anything to get close to her, I think the end game was pretty clear that she was going to die one way or another.  In her case, she just happens to be playing for "the other team."  Her sexuality to me was always an afterthought, considering her craziness was front and center.

 

More to the point, who's going to tell Bear that she's gone?! 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

For me Root's first love was the Machine, she felt something with Shaw, but at her core, Root was connected to the machine. The Machine was always meant to be her end goal. That's why she would die for Harold, he's the Machine's father. 

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stealinghome

stealinghome

I really like AfterEllen's recap of 5x09-10, as it gets at a lot of my mixed feelings.

As I've been processing, I've been realizing that, as the recap states, a large part of my frustration is that Shoot never got to really be a couple for a full episode--I think seeing Shaw work through some of her issues with Root by her side would have been compelling, and both characters (but especially Shaw, given what she's been through) deserved a little bit of a respite. I really wish they'd sprung Shaw in ep 5 or 6 and given the full team more time together.

http://www.afterellen.com/entertainment/490147-person-interest-recap-5-09-5-10

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Maybe if the show wasn't cancelled Shoot could've been together, but seeing that this is the end and they have to finish it people are going to die to accomplish that goal. 

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Gigi43

Gigi43

(edited)

I'm seeing "another dead gay character" thing in various places online re: Root. I am not gay, but, currently I'm being told by some people with disabilities to not read the book or see the movie "Me Before You" because of how it's "treating a disabled character", -I was born with a condition so half my friends have widely varying conditions of many kinds- and my disinterest now is having the plot spoiled not the actual content itself, a lot of these people haven't read the book and the movie isn't even out until this weekend, so, it's just word of mouth and to me from what I've been hearing about it, I can think of a lot of a ton of other movies that -I'll use spoiler tags to not give hints-

Spoiler

that end with people dying and I feel insulted by the idea that every movie should paint anyone with a disability as a 'plucky nothing will ever stop me type' because that's not real life and non-disabled people in movies/tv end tragically like this, too.

Some of the "Shoot" discussion I'm seeing really has me wondering if some of the people have actually been following the show or are joining the offended movement. There was a lot of outrage about Tara on Buffy, but to me that's just another example of how Joss Whedon loves the trope of killing characters, it's hard to find a couple that didn't end with someone dying in the Buffy/Angel-verse (even though some came back.) Root's main love was the Machine. I'm not even sure someone like Root "loved" really, or, just got obsessively attached if that makes any sense, and Shaw joined the obsessively attached list. Root was the one who deemed the Machine "she" so I see where that leads to her being gay... but the Machine was everything too her. It was only a matter of time before Shaw or Root died, and given all the gun fire in that episode it would have been ridiculous if it had been only Elias who got hit, It's still a possibility Shaw and the straight men may die, but Root, is getting an even better ending than she has imagined by being a part of the Machine and having died for the machine/it's creator.  The psychotic killer has gotten their dream ending while someone like Carter, did not. It's bugging me to see such a great show being lumped in to a category of outrage like this because it just doesn't belong. I think the writers have played this too as Root mostly loving a Machine. Also, Sarah Shahi's real life impacted took Shaw out for most of the season and then the shortened final season happened so they were forced to do early "endings", they could have, probably should have brought Shaw back earlier this season but, to a point this was the writers having to adapt to situations they didn't plan, on top of them sticking to endings that fit the characters and the core of the show, not deciding to be politically correct by keeping them both alive just to not kill gay characters.  

Edited by Gigi43
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