S06.E09: No Way Out

[Nashville]

Well...that part of Virginia can't really be considered part of the Bible Belt. Hell most southerners I know don't even consider NOVA to be part of the south anymore.

 

You'd be surprised. 

 

ETA: And yes, to a degree you're right about NOVA - they're on Southern probation.  ;)

Edited February 17, 2016 by Nashville

[AndySmith]

True, it has churches, but NOVA isn't really considered part of the Bible Belt anymore.

 

Funny enough, looking at that map, you have to wonder where exactly that community would fit in, since all of that area is built up, more or less. Where are all of these rural woods we see the characters walking around in when they leave the settlement?

[kelslamu]

Holy sh*t!  That was almost too much.  I'm sick at the moment so maybe that played into it. lol  Question, does fire actually kill them?  It did serve as a distraction and I think it does kill them, but something is nagging at me about that.  

[kelslamu]

I did not see one iota of sexual tension or anything but abject fear and revulsion in Dr. D.  I also see nothing remotely attractive about the Wolf, even cleaned up for TD.

       Yeah, not seeing sexual tension or anything attractive either. To each their own, though.

[diebartdie]

Holy sh*t!  That was almost too much.  I'm sick at the moment so maybe that played into it. lol  Question, does fire actually kill them?  It did serve as a distraction and I think it does kill them, but something is nagging at me about that.  

Nothing kills them except damage to the head and even then, sometimes a person can suffer extreme damage to the head and still come back, sometimes just a little knife to the temple is enough to keep a person from coming back. So a fire wont stop a zed unless it really destroys the head. If you remember the episode where Rick and the gang were on the way to Grady Hospital to save Beth and they came across a parking lot that had been napalmed and many of the melted walkers were still active.

[lulee]

Nothing kills them except damage to the head and even then, sometimes a person can suffer extreme damage to the head and still come back, sometimes just a little knife to the temple is enough to keep a person from coming back. So a fire wont stop a zed unless it really destroys the head. If you remember the episode where Rick and the gang were on the way to Grady Hospital to save Beth and they came across a parking lot that had been napalmed and many of the melted walkers were still active.

Through the wonders of walker physiology - they can basically be bipedal charcoal briquettes and keep shuffling on. Quite remarkable!

[Lexxy]

I wonder if the zombies were like, "Hey that group of zombies over there is holding hands.  Maybe I should hold somebody's hand!"  *grabs zombie hand*

[RainOnToosdays]

I thought she was casting glances at his gun and sort of wondering if she could get away from him.  No sexual tension at all.  The Wolf, being totally nuts, seemed to be relishing the idea of turning her into another Wolf, especially considering most of his friends were deaded. ... I thought she showed smarts by saying she could save his life, because I'm pretty sure Denise knew there was no f'ing way that was true, but she could use him to get back to her home base.  He was toast anyway, so it wasn't a huge risk to bring him back. 

 

For a moment, when she stopped shaking so much and was giving him those surreptitious glances, I thought for sure she was pulling a Carol and was only faking it, waiting for a moment she could knock the gun away from him. As it is, I think she's a lot like Eugene in that she used brains rather than brawn to help herself. Except Eugene picked a good guy to trick into protecting himself, whereas Denise used a bad guy. Which is even smarter, getting the bad guy to help you. 

 

As for how illogical it can get. Come on!!! We're talking about zombies!! The literal Walking Dead. You can't get any more illogical than that! Which makes it very easy for me to just take everything with a grain of salt. Would I like the show better written, sure, see my mention of being distracted while watching it, but it's damn fun when they pull out all the stops like they did with this past episode and that's mainly why I watch. 

 

Ditto! It's dark but pretty damn fun. If I wanted logic and realism I'd be watching science documentaries. I really didn't even notice the day-to-night so many have issue with as in my mind, I thought is was already quite late in the day and getting dark when the last episode left off. The only thing that actually made me go Huh? and took me out of the moment for a moment was when Tara & Rosita said something about "let's go get Carol" and then poof, they were right there in the same room with Carol and Morgan waking up. I had thought that they were in a completely different building and was wondering how they knew where she was at and how they got there so fast. But I did have a lot of distractions going on during this episode and was not able to watch the rerun of the previous episode first to refresh my memory  so I'm sure I missed or have forgotten something. 

 

I've never been a Rick Grimes fan-girl but darn, he looked good out there with the 5 o'clock shadow and hair plastered to his face. 

 

Thrilled to death that Gabriel and Eugene both got their game on! I've been swimming against the tide in liking both of them since their first appearances. Eugene's comment about wanting to be part of the story that will be told echoes Troy for me:

Odysseus: [voiceover] Men are haunted by the vastness of eternity. And so we ask ourselves: will our actions echo across the centuries? Will strangers hear our names long after we are gone, and wonder who we were, how bravely we fought, how fiercely we loved?

Odysseus: [voiceover] If they ever tell my story let them say that I walked with giants. Men rise and fall like the winter wheat, but these names will never die. Let them say I lived in the time of Hector, tamer of horses. Let them say I lived in the time of Achilles.

Thetis: If you stay in Larissa, you will find peace. You will find a wonderful woman, and you will have sons and daughters, who will have children. And they'll all love you and remember your name. But when your children are dead, and their children after them, your name will be forgotten... If you go to Troy, glory will be yours. They will write stories about your victories in thousands of years! And the world will remember your name. But if you go to Troy, you will never come back... for your glory walks hand-in-hand with your doom.

 

I believe that Michonne now joins Carol as the only survivor to have killed a child. Rightfully so, she was protecting her people in killing Ron and we seem to unanimously condone what she did, but I can't help but wonder, what if it had been Carol? 

I can't help but feel that if it had been Carol it would not have been acceptable - there would have been an outcry over what a cold bitch Carol is and why couldn't she just have knocked him out or something instead .... But, it was Michonne and we seem to love her even more for it. 

 

I don't think Carol is at all responsible for Sam's behavior & death. She told him a scary story about monsters outside the gate that would eat him alive and guess what ... there really are monsters outside the gate that will eat you alive. If anything, his foreknowledge from Carol should have steeled him into behaving and doing as he was told. Suck it up Buttercup or die. He didn't and he did. 

[vibeology]

Nothing kills them except damage to the head and even then, sometimes a person can suffer extreme damage to the head and still come back, sometimes just a little knife to the temple is enough to keep a person from coming back. So a fire wont stop a zed unless it really destroys the head. If you remember the episode where Rick and the gang were on the way to Grady Hospital to save Beth and they came across a parking lot that had been napalmed and many of the melted walkers were still active.

 

You would think that a hot enough fire would do enough damage to the body that at least some of the Walkers end up immobile. We've seen lots of biting Walker heads that can't go anywhere. Those at least will be easy cleanup for the group. Its really amazing how resilient the Walkers are though.

 

As for poor Sam, that kid was never going to make it. Maybe Carol hurried things along by scaring the crap out of him, but I doubt it would have made much difference. Sam lost it when he saw the kid Zombie and I do think innocent Sam of his first appearance would have been just as freaked out imagining himself in that kid's shoes. Maybe they would have made it another twenty feet down the street, but ultimately Sam was too young and too sheltered to survive.

Edited February 17, 2016 by vibeology

[diebartdie]

We've seen lots of biting Walker heads that can't go anywhere.

Man that gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "ankle biters"

[HalcyonDays]

I don't think Carol is at all responsible for Sam's behavior & death. She told him a scary story about monsters outside the gate that would eat him alive and guess what ... there really are monsters outside the gate that will eat you alive. If anything, his foreknowledge from Carol should have steeled him into behaving and doing as he was told. Suck it up Buttercup or die

 

Yup. Everyone else has too. We've seen kids handle it a bit better, and adults that are so fearful they get killed. Depends on the person. Jessie sheltering him was part of the problem, but at the same time, Deanna making ASZ so sheltered and removed from the realities hurt them all. But yup, suck it up or die.

 

You would think that a hot enough fire would do enough damage to the body that at least some of the Walkers end up immobile.

 

You know now I am wondering why they didn't create some large torches, soak them with the fuel, and lead the Walking out of the compound, then take them out. The Walker seems to be a little less aggressive and sluggish when something firey and shiny catches their attention. They could have led the out of the compound, to a nearby field and slaugthered them. Now, they have Walker's everywhere they have to remove, including from the water. Guess this means they won't be in ASZ much longer.

[diebartdie]

I believe that Michonne now joins Carol as the only survivor to have killed a child. Rightfully so, she was protecting her people in killing Ron and we seem to unanimously condone what she did, but I can't help but wonder, what if it had been Carol? 

I can't help but feel that if it had been Carol it would not have been acceptable - there would have been an outcry over what a cold bitch Carol is and why couldn't she just have knocked him out or something instead .... But, it was Michonne and we seem to love her even more for it. 

 

I don't think Carol is at all responsible for Sam's behavior & death. 

I added the bold because I love your observation! I've been really taken aback by the roiling hatred some people have to Stone Cold Carol, I am obviously not in the hater camp. I love Michonne too just not the same way. Carol's story just resonates with me in a way no other character's does. I think MMB is a great actor, watching her reactions after the exchange with Morgan when she says she should have killed him, watching her face when Morgan is walking away, she was clearly swallowing many words she would have liked to say, Ive been there too. Was it dumb that she forced the confrontation with Morgan WHEN she did? Absolutely. Her forced confrontation could have so easily ended with her death, Morgan's death, Denise's death, Tara, Eugene and Rosita's death.....but happily only the wolf died! Was she mean as hell to Sam? Absolutely. Did her meanness CAUSE Sam's death? No I dont think so, I blame his mother for that one BUT Carol did NOT do Sam any favors. I understand why she didnt, hell the show has clearly laid out why exactly she did that! Her baby girl Sophia was "too weak" for this sorrowful world and it ate her up. Her stand-in baby girls Lizzie and Mica.......Lizzie so strong it destroyed her mind, Mica so compassionate it ate her up too. With all that under her belt Carol decided the best thing for everyone was just to not only keep Sam at arm's length but to also scare the shit out of him so that he would be more inclined to leave her the hell alone. Carol does have a reckoning coming to be certain. She is tottering on a very dangerous edge and I think she knows it, I think that scene with Morgan was showing us she knows she needs to find a way to climb back down from the murder throne before she is lost forever. im GLAD she is nothing at all like the comic Carol. Comic Carol sucked beyond the telling of it. TV Carol works sooooo much better.

[lulee]

I believe that Michonne now joins Carol as the only survivor to have killed a child. Rightfully so, she was protecting her people in killing Ron and we seem to unanimously condone what she did, but I can't help but wonder, what if it had been Carol? 

I can't help but feel that if it had been Carol it would not have been acceptable - there would have been an outcry over what a cold bitch Carol is and why couldn't she just have knocked him out or something instead .... But, it was Michonne and we seem to love her even more for it.

Very interesting question. I like Michonne (and have since sometime before "Clear" but that one really solidified my liking for her), but I watched that scene and its tight choreography - and afterward, in hindsight I know that one of the outcomes was that Carl had to be shot with a glancing blow - but I still thought, "Damn! Couldn't she just have just charged at Ron and knocked him over?!"

 

It was a very dramatic moment, and I wonder -- I'm not a comics reader - was the katanaing of the shooter from the comics? Because otherwise, it could have gone a different way such as: Ron points gun at Rick, Michonne barrels into him and the gun fires, and then a distraught Ron heads for the herd to kill himself, unable to go on after seeing his mother and brother die a couple weeks after his father.

Edited February 18, 2016 by lulee

[diebartdie]

It was a very dramatic moment, and I wonder -- I'm not a comics reader - was the katanaing of the shooter from the comics?

In the comic

it wasn't Ron at all, it was the Deanna equivalent, he was freeking OUT just wildly shooting his hand gun and hollering when the herd pounced on him causing a shot to go even wilder and blow out half of Coral's head.

Edited February 17, 2016 by HalcyonDays
COMIC SPOILERS!

[blackwing]

Fantastic episode!  We got to lose Jessie and both of her irritating sons.  Lost the Wolf.  I only wish we could have lost Eugene and Pee Pants as well.

 

I enjoyed the final scenes of the crew (and some randoms we had never seen before) slashing at the camera.  And I really liked Spencer's redemption... he was a bit of a coward in the previous episodes but this time he was right in there with Heath and Aaron and doing his part.

 

So glad that Daryl killed all of those bikers.  That lead biker was getting on my nerves and I thought I was in for many episodes of irritation.

[AngelaHunter]

Eh, I always thought Morgan sucked from the beginning, so nothing to destroy. Never saw the appeal in him.

 

I mentioned ages ago that I never understood the outcry and clamor for his return. He took Rick in at the beginning of the series. He stabbed him in a later episode (an ep which bored me to tears) and that was about it. I really tried to understand how that gave rise to such a great popularity, but never could.

[Ohwell]

True, it has churches, but NOVA isn't really considered part of the Bible Belt anymore.

Exactly.

[HalcyonDays]

*sigh* Everyone. You are all seasoned Walking Dead thread posters. You've posted in the threads for a LONG TIME. You know better. This has been reiterated for at least TWO YEARS!!

 

NO COMIC SPOILERS. Take it to the Comics Thread, or if you absolutely have to (and think twice about it), TAG IT.  It's that pretty little Red Circle with a Diagonal Line Intersecting It. Highlight your sentence about the comic and click that red button.

 

It looks just like this:

[magemaud]

Are we to believe the people on the porch and inside the infirmary are the ONLY people who survived that gorefest or could there be others still barricaded in their homes? Where is the old couple? The dog? And for goodness sake MIKEY? Olly olly oxen freeeeeee! 

Edited February 17, 2016 by magemaud

[Nashville]

True, it has churches, but NOVA isn't really considered part of the Bible Belt anymore.

 

Funny enough, looking at that map, you have to wonder where exactly that community would fit in, since all of that area is built up, more or less. Where are all of these rural woods we see the characters walking around in when they leave the settlement?

 

Georgia. :D

 

Nothing kills them except damage to the head and even then, sometimes a person can suffer extreme damage to the head and still come back, sometimes just a little knife to the temple is enough to keep a person from coming back. So a fire wont stop a zed unless it really destroys the head. If you remember the episode where Rick and the gang were on the way to Grady Hospital to save Beth and they came across a parking lot that had been napalmed and many of the melted walkers were still active.

 

Probably depends on two factors: degree of heat, and duration of exposure to it. The napalm strike was probably extreme in heat, but also extremely short-lived; there were lots of scorch marks around the Gummy Walkers, but surprisingly lot a lot of fire damage to the surrounding buildings. You'd have expected that entire part of town to have been burned to the ground otherwise.

Contrariwise, the heat from Daryl's version of Fire Lake (thank you Bob Seger!!!) was probably not near as intense; keep the walkers in it long enough for their brains to boil and char, though, and I bet it would do the trick.

 

I wonder if the zombies were like, "Hey that group of zombies over there is holding hands.  Maybe I should hold somebody's hand!"  *grabs zombie hand*

Wouldn't you give your hand to a friend?

-- Melissa Manchester, "Midnight Blue", 1975

- also -

-- Jessie Anderson, "The Walking Dead", 2016

;>

[morgankobi]

I don't think Carol is at fault for Sam's very stupidly timed freeze frame (tm J. Geils, sorry) after being fine for so long, but I think the show was trying to show some culpability with the voice over, which I find an odd choice.

[Nashville]

Carol's story was undoubtedly skeevy-creepy and self-serving of her own needs of the moment - shut the kid up good before he blabs about her surreptitious trips to the pantry/armory. In truth though, given the realities of the ZA, such a story would normally have increased Sam's survival odds; the very real peril of walkers would be forcefully impressed upon him psychologically - more so than any of the other clueless little ASZHat kids, any way - and he'd be a heckuva lot less likely to risk exposure.

Such an impression would have served Sam well 99.5% of the time. So I can't really fault Carol because a situation in the .5% developed - one which required Sam not only to disregard the advice to avoid walkers at all costs, but instead required him to voluntarily go forth and walk amongst the monsters - hordes of them.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Nashville

[Raven1707]

I'm only on page 4 of the comments, but I'm skipping ahead to post the ratings for Episode 609, "No Way Out":

 

 

Though its numbers were down a bit, “The Walking Dead” was far and away the No. 1 show on cable for the week of Feb. 8-14. The series returned to AMC with a 6.8 rating in adults 18-49 and 13.74 million viewers.

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/02/17/cable-weekly-top-25-feb-8-14-2016/

And here are the ratings for Season 6, so far:

 

10-11-15 “First Time Again” 14.633 million viewers
10-18-15 “JSS” 12.183 million viewers
10-25-15 “Thank You” 13.143 million viewers
11-01-15 “Here’s Not Here” 13.339 million viewers
11-08-15 “Now” 12.440 million viewers
11-15-15 “Always Accountable” 12.871 million viewers
11-22-15 “Heads Up” 13.224 million viewers
11-29-15 “Start to Finish” 13.981 million viewers

02-14-16 “No Way Out” 13.742 million viewers

[nodorothyparker]

I don't think any of the things Carol said to Sam helped him any, but these were people who were mostly convinced they could hide behind the walls forever and never have to face any of the monsters outside.  So a lot of them were never going to be prepared.  I was more struck by Jessie's advice to Sam before the break when she told him to "pretend to be brave."  Not be brave and hold on tight or be very very quiet and don't look at them.  Pretend to be brave.  It made me wonder what else Jessie may have told him to pretend about and whether he even clearly understood the difference between real and pretend at that point.

[AngelaHunter]

Wouldn't you give your hand to a friend?

-- Melissa Manchester, "Midnight Blue", 1975

 

God, I love you for that.

 

I must be very cold-hearted, because watching Sam, Jessie and... her other kid get chomped did nothing for me. Rick's fond flashbacks of this woman "in happier times" just made me roll my eyes.

 

The only scenes that gripped me were: Cworal's "Dad...?" after he got shot, Michonne's incredible expression of desperation following that, and Denise's terror and shut-down during her forced sortie with the creepy Wolf.

[NoWillToResist]

Two minor quibbles, one the transition from day to night was too quick. The other was that while Walkers would be attracted to the Fire I thought the ones ckosest to the "food" would have stuck it out. Just a minor thing but I felt too many of the herd broke off to follow the fire.

 

Yeah, the transition from day to night was jarring as hell and stupid to boot, IMO. I also wondered why so many walkers turned away from dinner to be all "fire pretty..."

 

 

The Porchdicks die = the show kicks ass. Coincidence? I think not. Don't rest in peace, excruciatingly annoying wastes of screentime.

My only quibble with the episode is that they survived for too long. With the "Mom", I thought they'd bit it in the first five minutes and I had to stand Blandie's whiny pep talk, whiny kids and bad parenting decisions once more. OTOH, it reminded me why I wanted them gone so much (sorry Sam, I initially liked you but you were doomed).

 

Please excuse me while I do a little dance because Ron is deaaaaaad! And my girl Michonne took him down after he hurt her son (yes, I dare. Carl is her son in every way that counts as they say on soap operas).

 

Not to nitpick, but Ron hadn't done anything to Carl at that point, IIRC. Ron had the gun pointed at Rick. Michonne stabbed Ron, which, regrettably, caused Ron to flail and fire..at Carl. Wonder if she'll have guilt about that? She and Carol need to talk. :)

 

The hubby and I scoffed at the dream sequence that we assumed the Jessie/Ron/Sam/Carl clusterfuck was. We were all 'no way!' and Rick's flashbacks of non-chomped Jessie only strengthened our assessment. Then when Carl looked like he'd been killed, we yelled "total dream sequence!!". Until Michonne freaked the fuck out and cleared a path for Rick and Carl. That was when we looked at each other wide-eyed and were all "...not a dream sequence?"

 

Carol is just a mean-spirited, small person who gets off on hurting people, 

 

I appreciate that opinion wildly varies on Carol; she has her faults and there have been lots of occasions where her actions caused mixed reactions from the audience, but I truly can't think of an example where Carol "got off" on hurting people. The closest I can think of is the leader of the cannibals, when Carol winged her and left her to be eaten; but even then Carol didn't gloat, to my recollection.

 

I have officially passed beyond not giving a shit about Glenn/Maggie and have solidly entered "kill him/her/them" territory. I'm tired of the 'Glenn is in danger, oh no, oh wait, he's totally fine' bullshit.

 

Why didn't Daryl just drive his big ass heavy truck through the main streets of Alexandria, mow some fucking walkers down and then drive out of the suburb a bit? That would have drawn the remaining walkers into following the moving vehicle...you know...like the WHOLE FUCKING PLOT OF THE FIRST PART OF THE SEASON????

 

Regardless of this episode's flaws, at least there was some action and finally, FINALLY, the gang is back together.

Edited February 17, 2016 by NoWillToResist

[lulee]

Are we to believe the people on the porch and inside the infirmary are the ONLY people who survived that gorefest or could there be others still barricaded in their homes? Where is the old couple? The dog? And for goodness sake MIKEY? Olly olly oxen freeeeeee!

I think the crowd was just the hackfest afterparty. Some no-names may have hunkered down and hidden, waiting it out. There's at least a few who were with Gabriel who didn't join the fight. No reason to think they wouldn't still be fine.

[Raven1707]

I sincerely doubt a subdivision of houses starting in the $800Ks is depending upon an open crick for its primary water supply.

 

 

Exactly.

 

I'm starting to suspect that a whole lot of posters must be tapped in to some mystical, magical realm of television that is fabulous beyond all power of reckoning, 'cause they sure do love to hate TWD--and for any and all its bobbles, I'm still having a blast with it.

 

I must admit I'm a bit curious about the shows where the dialogue is always brilliant, the actors are all accomplished, and the plot is so tight you could bounce a quarter off it...as a writer, as an editor, as a literary agent, as a former story analyst, I've never seen such a thing. And having been on a few film sets, I'd like to point out, the sun sets when it damned well sets.

 

Wow.  This is unusual for me - total disagreement.  Everything bad that happened in Alexandria was the fault of Alexandria's own; Rick and his people were, in fact, the ASZHat's only saving grace:

• It was Aaron (Alexandria's recruiter) who drew the Wolves to Alexandria, not CDB.  The Wolves learned of Alexandria's existence because Aaron dropped his backpack at the semi trailer trap site.  Aaron and Daryl nearly got caught in the trap because Aaron couldn't resist the temptation of the semi trailers potentially being loaded with food.  And it was Aaron who sprang the trap, because he didn't check for a trap before attempting to open a trailer, nor did Aaron notice the semi trailer doors were wired.  Daryl disagreed with Aaron on the whole shebang because Daryl wanted to keep their trip strictly a recruiting trip, and not mess around with scouting.
• One problem with your contention RE the herd: Rick's plan was working.  The herd was managed and on track to walk clean out of sight, right up until the Wolf truck's air horn started drawing half the herd Alexandria's way - and even then Rick's plan continued to work for the other half of the herd.
• "They don't know when they have it good"???  More accurate to say they (the ASZHats) don't know, period.  They didn't know they had a honey-pot quarry full of walkers, until days before the pot was set to crack wide open.  They didn't know what to do about it, until Rick came up with a plan - not necessarily a great plan, but better than just sitting around with their thumbs up their collective asses waiting to be engulfed by a full-force walker megaherd.  They don't know how to defend themselves, and in fact drug their heels about learning how when Rick&Co. tried teaching them; this attitude left them almost totally defenseless when the Wolves showed up, offering no resistance to the Wolves except from members of CDB (and Morgan, to a lesser extent) - who successfully repelled the Wolves.
• The truck brought by the Aaron-drawn Wolves toppled the watch tower and took the walls down - not CDB.
• The air horn on the self-same truck drew the walkers - not CDB.
• Dead walkers (isn't that a little redundant, BTW?) everywhere are preferable to dead ASZHats everywhere - from the ASZHat perspective, anyway.  Or so I would assume.
• The "real doctor"?  By which you mean the alcoholic, wife-beating, child-beating porchdick?  You really want THAT surgeon taking a knife to you when his DTs start kicking in?  Personally, I've always had the impression Pete quite possibly took at least as many lives as he saved; the ASZHats just put up with his behavior because he was the best they had.  Or so he told them.
• 25% of the population is better than 0%.  If it weren't for Rick and his people, the only question would be whether 100% ASZHat mortality would be achieved first by Wolf or by walker.

 

Fact of the matter is - if CDB hadn't shown up, Alexandria would have been nothing more than a wine-sipping, pasta-machine-pining buffet waiting for something - ANYTHING, really - with an appetite to show up and chow down.

 

At the risk of repeating myself, exactly!

[ShadowSixx]

Carol has her reasons for why she does what she does. If her group is in danger, she's going to kill anyone that threatens her group. The group that has kept her safe since the beginning. She killed Lizzie because Lizzie was a danger to everyone as Lizzie almost killed Judith just so she can turn into a zombie and Lizzie can have a pet. She killed people in Terminus and the Wolves because they were horrible people, one were cannibals and the Wolves took delight in killing people. Even during her confrontation with Morgan the wolf guy said that they better kill him or he would more than likely kill again just for the hell of it, plus he took Denise hostage. Carol is thinking in terms of kill or be killed. Carol doesn't get any pleasure out of killing but she won't hesitate to kill someone that threatens her group.

 

I will disagree on her killing Karen and David to stop the spread of the virus because she had no proof or further evidence that they started the virus or how they got it. Sasha and Glenn got the virus but were saved and can't remember if Carol knew they caught it or did Rick send her off before she knew about Sasha and Glenn. Wasn't it the pigs that caused the virus?

[AngelaHunter]

I have officially passed beyond not giving a shit about Glenn/Maggie and have solidly entered "kill him/her/them" territory. I'm tired of the 'Glenn is in danger, oh no, oh wait, he's totally fine' bullshit.

 

I officially passed beyond giving a shit about the "Lovey Dovey all the Time" duo ages ago, but now I join you in the "Kill 'em both."  Glenn has turned into an overly principled, dreary, pendantic saint, dispensing his lofty wisdom to all who have need of it and Maggie went from being a strong individual whose metamorphosis I enjoyed, to a pepetual "Woman in Peril" whose only facial expression is one of anguish over the Houdini-like, dead/not dead Glenn.  Sick of it, I am.

 

[piequinn35]

The hubby and I scoffed at the dream sequence that we assumed the Jessie/Ron/Sam/Carl clusterfuck was. We were all 'no way!' and Rick's flashbacks of non-chomped Jessie only strengthened our assessment. Then when Carl looked like he'd been killed, we yelled "total dream sequence!!". Until Michonne freaked the fuck out and cleared a path for Rick and Carl. That was when we looked at each other wide-eyed and were all "...not a dream sequence?"

 

Haha me and my hubby too, it was day then why it became night? is this a dream? noooo it's real :o

[Dodginblue]

I don't think Carol is at fault for Sam's very stupidly timed freeze frame (tm J. Geils, sorry) after being fine for so long, but I think the show was trying to show some culpability with the voice over, which I find an odd choice.

 

Carol's never going to know that her threats played through Sam's mind in the last seconds of his life although I suppose it's possible that she'll remember what she said to him and feel bad that her scary story turned out to be the kid's fate.  I doubt she'd feel responsible though.  She had other positive interactions with him after that and the way he sought her out makes me think that he wasn't traumatized by what she said to him, it was more that he realized in the moment that what Carol had described wasn't just a scary story, that there really were horrible monsters in the world who would eat little kids. Seeing the kid in the pajamas did it I think.

[ShadowSixx]

I officially passed beyond giving a shit about the "Lovey Dovey all the Time" duo ages ago, but now I join you in the "Kill 'em both."  Glenn has turned into an overly principled, dreary, pendantic saint, dispensing his lofty wisdom to all who have need of it and Maggie went from being a strong individual whose metamorphosis I enjoyed, to a pepetual "Woman in Peril" whose only facial expression is one of anguish over the Houdini-like, dead/not dead Glenn.  Sick of it, I am.

 

I think both of them will benefit from one of them dying. It'll really help their character. We don't know how much Glenn has suffered since the outbreak but we seen Maggie suffer loss more than just about anyone on screen. Her whole family were killed on screen. If I were to guess I think Maggie's character would benefit more than Glenn because she suffered more on t.v.

 

I like that Walking Dead made stronger female characters because the first two seasons were just dreadful for female characters with bitch ass Lori, weak Carol, and dumbass Andrea leading the pack. Have Michonne, Sasha, and Carol, now Maggie can rank up there with them but her character may have to suffer another loss in order to get more stronger.

[AngelaHunter]

I think both of them will benefit from one of them dying.

 

If one of them has to go, I'd prefer it be Glenn. This show seems to have a problem allowing characters to keep their personalities. Both Glenn and Daryl have had theirs successfully removed.

[Ohwell]

I think Glenn and Darryl both look like they're ready to go at any time.  At least Maggie has her unborn child to live for.

[TexasChic]

Wow.  This is unusual for me - total disagreement.  Everything bad that happened in Alexandria was the fault of Alexandria's own; Rick and his people were, in fact, the ASZHat's only saving grace:

• It was Aaron (Alexandria's recruiter) who drew the Wolves to Alexandria, not CDB.  The Wolves learned of Alexandria's existence because Aaron dropped his backpack at the semi trailer trap site.  Aaron and Daryl nearly got caught in the trap because Aaron couldn't resist the temptation of the semi trailers potentially being loaded with food.  And it was Aaron who sprang the trap, because he didn't check for a trap before attempting to open a trailer, nor did Aaron notice the semi trailer doors were wired.  Daryl disagreed with Aaron on the whole shebang because Daryl wanted to keep their trip strictly a recruiting trip, and not mess around with scouting.
• One problem with your contention RE the herd: Rick's plan was working.  The herd was managed and on track to walk clean out of sight, right up until the Wolf truck's air horn started drawing half the herd Alexandria's way - and even then Rick's plan continued to work for the other half of the herd.
• "They don't know when they have it good"???  More accurate to say they (the ASZHats) don't know, period.  They didn't know they had a honey-pot quarry full of walkers, until days before the pot was set to crack wide open.  They didn't know what to do about it, until Rick came up with a plan - not necessarily a great plan, but better than just sitting around with their thumbs up their collective asses waiting to be engulfed by a full-force walker megaherd.  They don't know how to defend themselves, and in fact drug their heels about learning how when Rick&Co. tried teaching them; this attitude left them almost totally defenseless when the Wolves showed up, offering no resistance to the Wolves except from members of CDB (and Morgan, to a lesser extent) - who successfully repelled the Wolves.
• The truck brought by the Aaron-drawn Wolves toppled the watch tower and took the walls down - not CDB.
• The air horn on the self-same truck drew the walkers - not CDB.
• Dead walkers (isn't that a little redundant, BTW?) everywhere are preferable to dead ASZHats everywhere - from the ASZHat perspective, anyway.  Or so I would assume.
• The "real doctor"?  By which you mean the alcoholic, wife-beating, child-beating porchdick?  You really want THAT surgeon taking a knife to you when his DTs start kicking in?  Personally, I've always had the impression Pete quite possibly took at least as many lives as he saved; the ASZHats just put up with his behavior because he was the best they had.  Or so he told them.
• 25% of the population is better than 0%.  If it weren't for Rick and his people, the only question would be whether 100% ASZHat mortality would be achieved first by Wolf or by walker.

 

Fact of the matter is - if CDB hadn't shown up, Alexandria would have been nothing more than a wine-sipping, pasta-machine-pining buffet waiting for something - ANYTHING, really - with an appetite to show up and chow down.

Thank you for putting what I was trying to say into words.

[Iguessnot]

 

I will disagree on her killing Karen and David to stop the spread of the virus because she had no proof or further evidence that they started the virus or how they got it. Sasha and Glenn got the virus but were saved and can't remember if Carol knew they caught it or did Rick send her off before she knew about Sasha and Glenn. Wasn't it the pigs that caused the virus?

Sasha & Glenn got the flu later than Karen & David and were only saved at the last minute through the medical intervention of the respirator bags. Many of the prison population died of the flu and several that died wrecked havoc on the rest because Hershel wanted to keep up appearances.

 

Anyway, Karen & David were at the chocking on blood stage early in the game, so there was no hope for them.

[uoflfan]

Hooray for Father Gabriel! I just love Seth Gilliam. He totally sold that church pep talk. I wonder if Judith thought Daddy Tyreese was back when she was passed off to Father Gabriel. That baby has been passed around so much, she must be really confused about which people are her parents and what color they are. Since Judith seems to have spent the most time with Carl, I wouldn't be surprised if she started calling him "DaDa".

[Guest]

I must admit I'm a bit curious about the shows where the dialogue is always brilliant, the actors are all accomplished, and the plot is so tight you could bounce a quarter off it...as a writer, as an editor, as a literary agent, as a former story analyst, I've never seen such a thing. And having been on a few film sets, I'd like to point out, the sun sets when it damned well sets.

 

I had no problem working out the angles involved in only shooting Carl's eye out.

 

I gave them a logistical pass because filming dusk it cost prohibitive.

 

I draw the line at giving them a pass for having nearly the entire cast having conversations in the horde.  I could have gotten past Glenn/Enid and Wolf/Denise.  But they set themselves up for the jarring group discussions in the horde with Rick and crew and it was an easy fix.  No brilliance necessary.

 

All they had to do was make it to a building. Decide inside the building that they won't make it the armory and head for cars (at nightfall, sunset fixed).  You've got Gabriel in shelter with Judith.  Since it doesn't make sense that they take Sam, have Sam sneak out after them so he can get everyone killed.

Edited February 18, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[AndySmith]

Georgia. :D

 

Touché.

[Miral9]

I don't think Carol is at fault for Sam's very stupidly timed freeze frame (tm J. Geils, sorry) after being fine for so long, but I think the show was trying to show some culpability with the voice over, which I find an odd choice.

I don't think Carol is at fault for Sam's very stupidly timed freeze frame (tm J. Geils, sorry) after being fine for so long, but I think the show was trying to show some culpability with the voice over, which I find an odd choice.

[Miral9]

I don't think Carol is at fault for Sam's very stupidly timed freeze frame (tm J. Geils, sorry) after being fine for so long, but I think the show was trying to show some culpability with the voice over, which I find an odd choice.

There was a little heavy handed - how to describe it? The tv writing equivalent of "social engineering" that was kind of uncharacteristic but intended on getting us to think a certain way that would never have occurred to us absent the cues. First was Sam hearing Carols voiceover. Second was Rick and the visuals of Jesse. Just odd. The Jesse thing reminded me of JD on Scrubs. I mean they couldn't have been that attached. They barely spent any time together. Meh

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

There was a little heavy handed - how to describe it? The tv writing equivalent of "social engineering" that was kind of uncharacteristic but intended on getting us to think a certain way that would never have occurred to us absent the cues.

 

I found it odd if the show was telling us - in a heavy handed way as you mention - that Carol was to blame for Sam's freakout. This show has mostly been careful to show us the consequences of peoples' actions and decisions without being judgemental or preachy. For me this show was never about zombies per se. The strongest selling points for me have always been the human actions/interactions - to  see just what people would do, how far they would go, to survive just one more dayand what would happen to loyalties when worse comes to worst. It was interesting to think, "What would I do?"

 

Anyway, Sam was always frightened, nervous and insecure as are many children of alcoholics and abusers. Carol's scary stories or not, I don't think he ever had a chance, IMO.

 

Second was Rick and the visuals of Jesse. Just odd.

 

Yeah. You'd think if Rick were going to have any misty, water-coloured mem'ries, he might have them about his son as he collapsed on front of him and as he carried him to the infirmary.

Edited February 18, 2016 by AngelaHunter

[GodsBeloved]

Hooray for Father Gabriel! I just love Seth Gilliam. He totally sold that church pep talk. I wonder if Judith thought Daddy Tyreese was back when she was passed off to Father Gabriel. 

I don't see how Judith could confuse Gabriel for Tyreese. I just hope Gabriel isn't now the official babysitter. 

[Pixiebomb]

I don't see how Judith could confuse Gabriel for Tyreese. I just hope Gabriel isn't now the official babysitter.

Official Baby Sitter= Walker Chow.

[GodsBeloved]

Official Baby Sitter= Walker Chow.

I'm colder than AngelaHunter. Will Judith = Walker Chow nugget? LOL

 

I fully expect Carver to go the way of Cutty and D'Angelo but dang it I want my Wire guys to live on!!

Edited February 19, 2016 by GodsBeloved

[Bad Example]

She had other positive interactions with him after that and the way he sought her out makes me think that he wasn't traumatized by what she said to him, it was more that he realized in the moment that what Carol had described wasn't just a scary story, that there really were horrible monsters in the world who would eat little kids. Seeing the kid in the pajamas did it I think.

 

Carol may have been the first person to really tell the kid the truth, and he may have recognized that even before the actual herd-walk, and that's why he sought her out.  It's been a lifetime of "Mommy's not really hurt" and "Daddy just got a little mad, but it's okay" for that kid.  

[mandolin]

 

Yeah. You'd think if Rick were going to have any misty, water-coloured mem'ries, he might have them about his son as he collapsed on front of him and as he carried him to the infirmary.

Carl hadn't been shot yet when Rick had his flashbacks. I wonder what it'd have been like if the show had put in flashbacks of Carl's first shooting and him as a younger kid as they ran. That might've been poignant.

[AngelaHunter]

Carl hadn't been shot yet when Rick had his flashbacks.

 

What I meant to say (and didn't!) is that his flashbacks could have been about Carl instead of Jessie.

[mandolin]

Yeah, I'm not sure what they were trying to accomplish other than trying to give weight to Jessie's "relationship" with Rick. Having Rick flash to Carl's first injury would've been cool...especially if the flashes had included Shane running with him then as Michonne did this time.

ETA: posted twice

Edited February 18, 2016 by mandolin