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S06.E07: Season 6, Episode 7


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I don't understand why Thomas can't cast his job search net wider - to London, or even New York, so he can leave Downtown and everyone who treats him so shabbily far behind. Surely, if he wrote to Rose in New York she'd try to help him out, and if he asked Cora to ask around her London friends I'm sure she'd help too.

 

YES!!!  I kept thinking the same.  

 

JF loves to have these best friends scenarios for Mary.  First it was Charles Blake, now Tom.  But Tom and Mary ain’t happening.  Ugh, I know too much as to what is going to happen so I can’t write anymore.  But this episode really stayed with me.

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As to Thomas and his job search, not only did he say in this episode that Downton is the first place he has ever had roots, but a few episodes ago he said he did not want to leave York, without elaborating.  So while it would make sense for him to go elsewhere where he might be successful, he has expressed that he wants to stay.  With Mrs. Hughes now showing concern, maybe she will lean on Carson to keep him on after Molesley leaves. This scenario also makes sense.  I just hope Thomas doesn't hang himself first.

Edited by ShadowFacts
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I think the jury's out on whether that was a barb, because I definitely heard it as a barb. Here was the unspoken subtext: "Edith, is your miserable self-esteem really so low that you can't conceive Bertie wanting to come here just to see you? Oh well, I suppose I can understand--it does beggar belief, at that."

 

I thought the same, because Cora had a disapproval expression towards Mary after her comment. The thing is that Mary is not used that Edith fight back. 

That's definitely the way Edith and Cora took it...but, Mary has thrown many barbs out over the course of this show and she has certain tones of voices and facial expressions for those. She wasn't using one of those tones or facial expressions here. The smile she had - which then dropped off her face - was completely different from any "smile" she's ever aimed Edith's way before, and the look she had after her smile had dropped off was also a first for her. Mary is used to Edith firing back (just look at their conversation when Mary and Tom decide to go up to London in the last episode, or when Mary asked if Bertie is worth it, etc. - Edith hasn't had any problem sniping at Mary for a while now), so her reaction to Edith's reply was not about that. I certainly don't see Mary through rose-eyed glasses, my comment history will prove that (ha ha), but I really do think she was being nice, even supportive (gasp), here. But she got a wake-up call that by this point she has been so consistently awful to Edith for so many years that if she really wants things to change, she can't just start being nice, because Edith (and Cora) can't even tell anymore when she's actually being nice and will react as if she was being mean.

 

Weirdly, it just might be the Marigold revelation that changes things a bit in that regard, because at this point it's been, what, a few weeks since Mary realized the truth and she has yet to snipe at Edith about it. If she continues her good behavior in that regard, and the family finds out that she's known the truth for some time and didn't use it as a cudgel to beat Edith with (or, worse yet, tell Bertie), then that's something that might get them to stop assuming the worst of anything Mary says to Edith. But she has to do some real work, too. Edith's not unwilling; we saw in this episode that despite everything her first instinct during Mary's moment of crisis was to run to her and give her her hand for support and comfort. But she needs something more substantial from Mary than remarks that can be easily interpreted as barbs. After all, it was Edith who offered to try to do better, after Sybil died, and Mary who rejected the idea.

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But to this moment we dont know if there is another male betwen Bertie and his cousin.

I could be wrong but I thought I remembered a scene between Cora and Violet where they evaluated him as a suitor and noted that about 14 people would have to die before he inherited the title.

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I really need someone to explain to me why Tom is so invested in Henry and Mary's relationship.  I can understand his wanting Mary to be happy.  However, it's to the point where he seems much more excited over Henry than Mary ever did. 

My thought is that Tom has no male buddy at Downton and would really enjoy Henry coming to live there as his brother-in-law. He does seem to be pushing the idea that Henry would fall into the Downton routine rather than establishing a home of his own, which should actually be a plus for Mary.

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But to this moment we dont know if there is another male betwen Bertie and his cousin.

I could be wrong but I thought I remembered a scene between Cora and Violet where they evaluated him as a suitor and noted that about 14 people would have to die before he inherited the title.

I forget who said what, but they were discussing Henry Talbot

 

What sort of Talbot is he?

Shrewsbury. But he's nowhere near the earldom. About 40 strong men would have to drop dead.

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I don't know what it was about that scene, but I totally agree - it was somehow quite sexy.

 

What struck me was how relaxed they were.  Until now we've seen everyone sitting bolt upright in their chairs.  It really stood out because they were leaning back and Edith had her feet on the divan (gasp!).  Nanny would be horrified.

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See, here's the thing about Bertie and Marigold. When Cousin Playboy kicks it, or renounces and flounces, Bertie gets the title. Great! And Edith is a marchioness! Cool -- Go, Edith! Their kids have titles!

But even if Bertie legally adopts Marigold, she will not be able to have a title and be styled as her half siblings would be.

That sets her up for being Different from her family. I don't know if Edith would go for that. Of course, Sybbie doesn't has a title, but still.

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I don't know what it was about that scene, but I totally agree - it was somehow quite sexy. Bravo, show.

It was the casual comfort of it, and the lighting on Laura Carmicheal's very English skin.

But it's not a first for Edith. Remember The Peacock Dress she wore at the restaurant with Gregson?

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Robert so loved Isis, he is so much a doggie person.  One wonders why, when Isis died, he didn't go out and just get himself another dog.  We do that all the time in our house.  That scene, however, remains one of my favorite DA scenes.  Good for Violet.  Her cruise trip adventure certainly came from no place and is very, very odd. Did she go alone?  I'm very very old and I would hesitate setting forth on a long  journey alone like that...why didn't she take what's her name with her?  The dreadful maid?  Not that I'd want to go anywhere with the dreadful maid.

 

I believe Mary will remain a single women, a widow, devoted to home and family...mostly home.  Having an affair every so often but never marrying again. 

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Robert so loved Isis, he is so much a doggie person.  

 

I think Hugh Bonneville is the dog person --- his reaction to Tia was not acted!!  A true dog person can't be hidden or acted IMO.  And that's what made the puppy scene such heart grabber and eye dampener.

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Isis died and no new dog came because Lady Carnarvon's dogs were not getting along with the production dogs. Now that the show is ending it is easy to introduce a new one. Notice that the puppy was introduced at the Ealing studio, not at Highclere.

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I'm very very old and I would hesitate setting forth on a long  journey alone like that...why didn't she take what's her name with her?

 

Denker did go with her. She was lording it over Spratt about how she'd be sashaying through France eating at fancy restaurants.

 

No offense to that adorable puppy (because there is no such thing as a homely puppy) but they must have gotten it from the local pound.  If it was supposed to be a purebred Lab it had one ugly head.  Not that Robert would care.

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I don't know what it was about that scene, but I totally agree - it was somehow quite sexy. Bravo, show.

 

Her pose was very languid, and a popular pose for artists' models at the time.  I wouldn't be surprised if that scene wasn't composed based on a piece of art.

Robert so loved Isis, he is so much a doggie person.  One wonders why, when Isis died, he didn't go out and just get himself another dog.  We do that all the time in our house.  That scene, however, remains one of my favorite DA scenes.  Good for Violet.  Her cruise trip adventure certainly came from no place and is very, very odd. Did she go alone?  I'm very very old and I would hesitate setting forth on a long  journey alone like that...why didn't she take what's her name with her?  The dreadful maid?  Not that I'd want to go anywhere with the dreadful maid.

 

I believe Mary will remain a single women, a widow, devoted to home and family...mostly home.  Having an affair every so often but never marrying again. 

 

Nah!  Julian Fellowes loves a tidy ending.  I think everyone (with the probable exception of Barrow) will be paired off in the end, including Mary.

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I don't know what it was about that scene, but I totally agree - it was somehow quite sexy. Bravo, show.

 

Bravo that it was subtle, so it was something that would never be on Bravo.  Anyhoo, we've seen Mary acting trampy zillions of times, so maybe JF wanted to throw Edith a bone(r?) one last time.  It was more sweet than hot to me, which is just fine.  I liked it.  She seemed too eager & desperate with Gregson.  With Bertie she seems on equal footing, if not actually in control -- a first for Edith & ANY man we've seen her with.  I like that too.  Given how JF has seemed to take great pleasure in Edith's non-stop state of misery, I'm suspicious whether this will last.

 

Ugh, I will be furious at JF if we see Thomas twisting in the wind like Shirley MacLaine at the end of The Children's Hour.  Sheesh, have we come no further in 50 years since that movie with its horrible ending?  I thought we were past these tales of gays killing themselves in droves.  Guess not.  Thanks a ton, JF.

Edited by ScoobieDoobs
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OK, here's what struck me as odd-- on the wedding invitation that Isobel received, it clearly showed the groom's name as "Larry." I'd always assumed that was the guy's nickname, and that his given name was Laurence or Lawrence. (For example, Laurence Olivier was frequently referred to as "Larry," but I doubt it ever showed that on his wedding invitations.) While I would suspect that perhaps lower class people might give a child a nickname as his "Christian" or official name, it seems strange for an upper class family to have done so. Or am I just making too many assumptions?

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No offense to that adorable puppy (because there is no such thing as a homely puppy) but they must have gotten it from the local pound.  If it was supposed to be a purebred Lab it had one ugly head.  Not that Robert would care.

I think though that even as recently as the 1920s, purebreds looked quite different than they do now, as the effect of breeding for very particular 'desirable' traits has taken a sharp toll (not, of course, that the show would have been trying to replicate what breeds looked like in decades past - you're right, they'll have just cast the net for a golden labrador puppy and not worried too much about the purity of the bloodline).

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I didn't exactly get upset that Charles died in the racing accident, but it was horrible that he was trapped in the burning car. Henry was so desperate to save him, so there was also the tension that he just might get caught in the engine blowing up or something. (Ok, I doubted it, but you never know... we've had one burn-disfigured possible aristocrat before and JF does like to repeat his story lines.)

 

I believe that the real point was that nobody know whether it was Henry or Charlie who was in the burning car until Bertie told Mary and Edith - and thus the audience should look at Mary's reaction when she was afraid to lose Henry. 

 

Actually Mary was in her softest when she tried t comfort him afterwards - they were the first time close without any games or pretending.

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I would be perfectly content if the show sent Mary Lady off into the future alone, with no prospects.  It would resonate with the theme of the old way of life drawing to an end and the big old houses becoming emptier and unhappier.   I picture Mary living alone in the Abbey, her parents long dead, attended to by an aged Anna. 

 

Branson, meanwhile, can run off with Talbot.

 

I find myself hoping Thomas commits suicide at the Abbey, again in keeping with the theme that we've reached the end of the road.   Then he could haunt the place as an evil butler ghost.   All very Turn of the Screw.

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I wouldn't mind that ending for Mary as long as it was presented in a more positive light. Yes, she doesn't have a man in her life, but she is still content and satisfied, running Downton and all the businesses (farms, inns, etc) associated with it and actively raising her son. That could be a nice symbol of how things changed as well, and a nice contrast to the way Robert ran (or didn't) things and the way Mary and her siblings were raised.

Edited by AndySmith
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I wouldn't mind that ending for Mary as long as it was presented in a more positive light. Yes, she doesn't have a man in her life, but she is still content and satisfied, running Downton and all the businesses (farms, inns, etc) associated with it and actively raising her son. That could be a nice symbol of how things changed as well, and a nice contrast to the way Robert ran (or didn't) things and the way Mary and her siblings were raised.

 

I don't think it should be a contrast but Mary should also embrace Robert's positive sides.

 

It's true that Robert didn't understand economics and ran the estate in the same way as his father had which meant that it generate loss that must be replaced with Cora's money. Matthew and Tom made him realize that the agriculture must be modernized in order that it produced profit.

 

On the other hand, it has been Robert who has always thought also about the tenant farmers. And it was he who prevented that ugly houses were built cheaply. To him Downton Abbey isn't just Crawleys' splendid way of life that Mary wanted to show Cora's mother in order to get her money to save it, or the successful enterprise Mary said to Henry she wans to leave her son, but it's the well-being of all in the region and he beauty of the nature.

 

In addition, Robert who first seemed to be a leader unwilling to share power changed to a leader who could be persuaded by good arguments by people who weren't close to him (Tom in the S2, Drewe in S3). Mary, on the other hand, listens only to Tom whom she likes and, since her father became sick, has become even more arrogant.

 

It's good to have self-confidence but Mary builds it solely on her wealth and position which makes her vulnerable to "the fortune's wheel". Mary's remark that whatever happens to others, she and George will remain in Downton is hubris. 

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These are all things Mary can learn over time (and some of it she has), and we have seen her change over time with regards to certain things. The fact that she listens to Tom is a nice sign, considering he's the former chauffeur (regardless of his marriage to Sybil). I know to some people Mary skins alive blind kittens with cancer in her spare time, but based on what we've seen, it isn't the most impossible idea that she and Tom could end up running Downtown successfully as time goes on, with yes, Mary even having some positive aspects to her.

 

Robert who first seemed to be a leader unwilling to share power changed to a leader who could be persuaded by good arguments by people who weren't close to him

 

Or a leader who realized his way of running the estate didn't work anymore, and they needed people with a more modern way of looking at things.

 

Mary's remark that whatever happens to others, she and George will remain in Downton is hubris.

 

Or pride in birthright and heritage. Nothing wrong with that. The fact that Mary is taking an interest in how Downtown is being run and applying herself to the decisions about it shows she isn't entirely leaving herself or George vulnerable to "the fortune's wheel". But mileage and all that, I suppose.

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I wouldn't mind that ending for Mary as long as it was presented in a more positive light. Yes, she doesn't have a man in her life, but she is still content and satisfied, running Downton and all the businesses (farms, inns, etc) associated with it and actively raising her son. That could be a nice symbol of how things changed as well, and a nice contrast to the way Robert ran (or didn't) things and the way Mary and her siblings were raised.

 

Yes, I didn't mean to suggest Mary should be unhappy.    She's a strong-willed woman of means.   She could certainly live independently and have a very fulfilling life as the last lord of Downton Abbey. 

 

I suppose I take issue with the notion that she needs a husband to be content.   The show and fans alike seem to be in a rush to marry her off before the end.   Mary herself feels the pressure.   The thing is, Mary has already enjoyed the great love of her life.   Tragically she lost Matthew prematurely (thanks a lot, Dan Stevens) but nothing in the future will measure up to her bond with him.   She knows it and we know it.   I think that may be the reason so many viewers, even those in a haste to slip a ring on her finger, sense "no chemistry" or have only tepid regard for the suitors of the last couple seasons.  

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The show and fans alike seem to be in a rush to marry her off before the end

 

Her and almost everybody else lol

 

Tragically she lost Matthew prematurely (thanks a lot, Dan Stevens) but nothing in the future will measure up to her bond with him

 

That is definitely something she and Tom both have in common. I just wish they'd both realize you can move on and find love and happiness with someone new, and it doesn't cheapen what you had with the person who passed away, nor does it diminish the love you felt for that person. But I guess it takes different time for different people. It took me a good 3 years.

Edited by AndySmith
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It appears Mary grief is still very fresh, whether she realizes it or not.   Her reactions at the races seemed almost like PTSD.  I don't know how she could ever hope to move on under such circumstances.

 

I did enjoy the racing scenes.   This past summer I had an opportunity to see antique cars of the same vintage racing on a small country course very much like Brooklands, at Lime Rock, Connecticut.  

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Or pride in birthright and heritage. Nothing wrong with that. The fact that Mary is taking an interest in how Downtown is being run and applying herself to the decisions about it shows she isn't entirely leaving herself or George vulnerable to "the fortune's wheel". But mileage and all that, I suppose.

 

Nothing wrong to believe in the 20th century that one is better than others because of the accident of her birth? If one is given much, then one shouldn't take it for granted but be grateful and give much t others, not only to one's family and those one likes.

 

Of course Mary shouldn't live in fear that anything horrible happens either - and maybe her over-confidence  is  a way to convince first of all herself after what happened to Matthew and Sybil. 

 

But this incident showed again what was seen when Robert lost Cora's fortune: Core has much more better premises to endure all that may happen than Mary, because her self value isn't tied with a position and fortune as Mary's has.        

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Who said anything about Mary seeing herself as better? I mean, truth be told, most aristocrats saw themselves back then as being rather high on the food chain to speak, as that is how society was. In any case, there is still nothing wrong with being proud about your birthright. Members of the Lucky Sperm Cloud are allowed to feel pride. It isn't a negative.

 

Maybe her overconfidence is just a sign of her own self and belief? Obviously what happened to Mathew and Sybil must weigh on her mind, but she was confident long before they passed away.

 

Well, of course Cora can feel that way. She wasn't born into a title, so it really isn't a part of who she is the way it can be for the rest of the Crawleys. And also Cora also has her own rich mother to fall back on, even if that money is tied up in a trust.

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Two things being speculated here have me curious.  A lot of people think Thomas will kill himself?  I thought the whole point of Molesley moving on to teaching was to leave an opening for Thomas to continue at DA (and all the wiser about the importance of forming relationships).  The other one is that Tom and the new editor will become involved.  She is obviously a career woman and Tom wants to keep Sybbie at DA, so neither one would probably consider relocating.  I think under other circumstances they might have been interested in a romantic relationship but things as they are, not this time.

 

The little trick played on Mr Carson was good for laughs, but I wish they had had an honest talk instead.

 

I agree that I see no reason for Mary to be married by the end of the series.

 

Those vintage race cars were fantastic.

Edited by Haleth
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I don't know what it was about that scene, but I totally agree - it was somehow quite sexy. Bravo, show.

I think it was Edith's feet. Plus, this sort of cuddling is not seen often on DA, even among the married characters. But I really think it was her feet.

edith-bertie-2.jpg?w=500

Crap. In searching for this photo I've seen things yet to happen.

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Two things being speculated here have me curious.  A lot of people think Thomas will kill himself?  I thought the whole point of Molesley moving on to teaching was to leave an opening for Thomas to continue at DA (and all the wiser about the importance of forming relationships). 

Molesley is a footman - that would be quite a big step down for Thomas, who is currently under-butler - and even if he did take that backward step, we all know Carson would rub his nose in it, incessantly.

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...it has been Robert who has always thought also about the tenant farmers. And it was he who prevented that ugly houses were built cheaply. To him Downton Abbey isn't just Crawleys' splendid way of life...it's the well-being of all in the region and he beauty of the nature.

 

Good observation. And it puts me in my mind that the real-life generations of owners of Highclere Castle (not just the house but the 5000 acres that surround it) must have been very like Robert--or else how could we see this marvelous location and all its marvelous vistas week after week? 

 

In fact (using my imagination), I can see that Highclere Castle was what put Julian Fellowes in mind to create this whole show. He may have looked at it and had his thoughts go something like this: "Hmmm. Practically all the ruling-class estates of England got broken up, subdivided into cheap housing, etc.--but not this one, not Highclere Castle. I wonder how that came to be?"

Edited by Milburn Stone
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...why didn't she take what's her name with her?  The dreadful maid?  Not that I'd want to go anywhere with the dreadful maid.

 

She did.  If you recall, Denker bounced downstairs to brag to Spratt that she would accompany "my lady" while Spratt was stuck in York "sticking stamps."

 

I believe Mary will remain a single women, a widow, devoted to home and family...mostly home.  Having an affair every so often but never marrying again. 

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I have a feeling the homes used for Gosford Park might have been a bigger influence.

 

Who knows?  It's not like the Upstairs Downstairs concept wasn't done, in various forms, decades before Gosford Park was ever written.  Not that I don't appreciate DA, just that the concept itself is not novel. 

 

 

Stupid question- if Violet decided to visit Ms Crookshanks unannounced, why does she go to Lord Merton's place? Shouldn't Ms. Crookshanks still be living with her family, as she is only engaged to Larry?

 

Maybe she's already assumed some kind of day to day role at the estate, since there don't appear to be any other women there? 

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I also had the thought that Molesley's departure leaves open a spot for Thomas, who seems to be trying hard to change his ways. I guess he didn't realize how much he loves Downton and the people there til he had to think about leaving it.(I know he thought he would have to leave in S3 after the Jimmy incident, but I think then he was more concerned about finding another job and getting a reference). I wonder if he would be able to find some humility in the position of footman, to realize that the place and the people mean more than the status of being underbutler. Of course, he's my favorite non-Dowager character, so I want the best for him. 

 

In my opinion, Branson's bromance with Talbot is the reason Tom's pushing Mary and Henry together. If she marries Henry, then Mary's happy and Tom gets to drive cool cars and have a friend in the family.

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I find myself hoping Thomas commits suicide at the Abbey, again in keeping with the theme that we've reached the end of the road.   Then he could haunt the place as an evil butler ghost.   All very Turn of the Screw.

 

I don't particularly want Thomas to kill himself, but if he does, I had something a little different in mind

 

Setting: George's birthday party, held outside on the estate grounds

Thomas (standing on the top of the Abbey roof): George! George! George, look at me! I'm over here! George, I love you.

 

George (at the party, being held by his mother and pointing to Thomas): Look. There's Barrow.

 

Thomas: Look at me, George. It's all for you! (steps off the roof, hanging himself as his swaying body smashes into a window, breaking it)

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I think it was Edith's feet. Plus, this sort of cuddling is not seen often on DA, even among the married characters. But I really think it was her feet.

 

Thanks for including that rather beautiful still-shot! (And taking one for the team by getting inadvertently spoiled for future events in the search for the photo.)

 

I agree - the bare feet on the sofa, the cuddling, the languid pose, the soft lighting. It all adds up to subtle sexiness.

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I also had the thought that Molesley's departure leaves open a spot for Thomas, who seems to be trying hard to change his ways. I guess he didn't realize how much he loves Downton and the people there til he had to think about leaving it.(I know he thought he would have to leave in S3 after the Jimmy incident, but I think then he was more concerned about finding another job and getting a reference). I wonder if he would be able to find some humility in the position of footman, to realize that the place and the people mean more than the status of being underbutler. Of course, he's my favorite non-Dowager character, so I want the best for him.

 

If you notice the lunch and dinner scenes, Thomas is always there serving along with Andrew and Molesley.  So he does still do some footman duties, plus take over for Carson as butler when he was away.  Thus he wouldn't be getting that much of a real "demotion", in terms of what duties he would perform.  I think it works, and I think he would be happy with it, because he has seen from his applications and interviews what the reality of his future employment situation is if he stays in Yorkshire. 

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Stupid question- if Violet decided to visit Ms Crookshanks unannounced, why does she go to Lord Merton's place? Shouldn't ms. Crookshanks still be living with her family, as she is only engaged to Larry?

I wondered about that myself.  She doesn't seem to have any kind of chaperone there.  It is just her and Lord Merton?  You never see Larry either.  Where is her mother?

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