S03.E11: Intimacy Part 2

[biakbiak]

Sure, she isn't a position to give any advice, but I don't think that event means that she cannot succeed in marriage. There will be mistakes. But there can also be reconciliation and a path forward. Also, who knows what things she has overlooked with Trey that haven't been shown.

Also, I think it's important to remember that it was just Tres that she was walking out on it was a camera crew. Yes, she agreed to participate but I can see that being an added stress that she just needed to get away from.

[eclectic]

I'm not really crazy about David's emotions but I think they are real. After all, he did cry on Father's Day and that was real.  He wants a family. I get that.  It is just too damn bad the producers or whomever are so easily seduced by truly sick people:  Ryan last year who was a total dud and dating his girlfriend during filming; Ryan who turned out to be an unemployed thug; Sean who turned out to be a lot of things with a lot of rumors flying about including a mug shot; now Ashley who is one sick bi*ch.  The docs said David was looking for marriage the most and by not being Mr. Tall, dark and handsome, he's forever begging.  He should just stop.  But he believed in the program.  He seems the most authentic to me.  So he's not perfect. Ashley is just over the top. She finally has a reason to bombard David with hate.  Get it out Ashley.  Let us all see just who you are.  Unbelievable. 

[Snarklepuss]

Neil Bowlus is a Compliance Specialist at QualTex Laboratories. That's interesting but if I was Samantha I'd ask him about more details about his career.

 

Perhaps if she did she'd get an earful.  QualTex Labs gets horrible reviews on "Glassdoor":

 

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/QualTex-Laboratories-Reviews-E686778.htm

[KateHearts]

All Neil has to do is to return to his own apartment. He is not a helpless child, nor is he dependent on Sam financially or through children. You are talking about personal experiences which sound awful, but none of you know Sam or Neil . I understand there are different types of abusive, but unless Neil tells us he is abused and forced to stay with Sam, I don't believe it.

I agree with this.  These people have barely spent a month together for a TV show role.  This is not a relationship that has developed where he is in a dangerous , toxic pattern of being "abused" and has sustained emotional damage.  I think everyone here knows what they are doing and are playing for the audience to a great degree.  And honestly, Neil is likely not as naïve as he portrays himself.  I think he's letting everything play out, to some extent.  Maybe giving Sam enough rope to hang herself?

[Snarklepuss]

Neil needs to understand that the type of arranged marriage his grandparents had has no relation to today's world with women who live independently and work full time. And if he can't stand having his face touched, how is he ever going to have sex?

 

The more I learn about Neil the more he reminds me of Sheldon from "Big Bang Theory".  And finding out that he works in a laboratory only supports that theory.  I'm beginning to think Neil is a card-carrying nerd.  Perhaps as someone else suggested he really is a virgin and has no clue about certain social niceties, which would explain a certain obliviousness to or acceptance of Sam's social cluelessness too.  He may have a touch of Asperger's which is why he's so quiet and inward, especially on camera - It's social awkwardness and possibly social anxiety going beyond just regular introversion.  I hate to apply the Asp. term to just anyone but I really think it may apply to him.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Koda1969]

There are three things that strike me about the women this season, which was reinforced with this episode:

1. They have very unrealistic views of marriage and partnership
2. They are bad at communicating in a way to grow said partnership or allow for open discourse
3. It's all about them

Vanessa/Tres - Ok, I get she was abandoned (albeit as a teenager). I, myself, had much the same thing happen, but, my biological father married the woman he cheated with and when I was 4, pretty much left my life for good. When I found him and reconnected at 16, his wife gave him an ultimatum - her or me and the kids. He chose the latter, and told me so. So, yeah, I did have dating issues in my early 20's. But, the one thing I learned, is that you can't judge someone based on others. To assume "all people are alike" is setting yourself up for disaster. You need to take a risk, and if that risk doesn't work out, don't use it judge others going forward. No, that's not easy, but if you don't do that, you're destined to relationship failure over and over (this is IMHO but based on experience over the  course of 25 years).

While there may be something to Tres and the "player" vibe some are picking up on, I do agree with him in one sense, communication. You can't sit on the couch moping then when someone asks what's wrong, just grumble "nothing". If something bugs you, say it. People aren't mind readers. Likewise, constantly looking for signs he's going to bail, again, you are dooming yourself to failure, because even if he wasn't going to bail, that constant up and down emotion will make him WANT to bail. Just one thought on the player thing...My husband was single for 25 years (much like me). When we were together 3 months, his friends called to joke and congratulate him for being in the longest relationship of his life. He made no bones about not being serious in his youth, but made it clear that when he met me, his entire perspective changed. I never pushed him for a relationship, he just said that he was comfortable with me, and knew I made him happy to where he didn't need to look around and do the same things he'd done in his youth. But, I do think Vanessa needs to stop using "romantic movies" for the basis of what a partnership is.

Sam/Neil - I'm on the fence about the whole abuse thing. But, having had a passive/aggressive step-father who made my life miserable for 30 years, I see some of those ups and downs. When he's getting what he wants, he's happy. But, if you cross him, you get his wrath. Much the same way, I'm noticing when it's all about her, Sam is happy. When Neil is willing to do what she wants (aerial acrobatics, etc.) she is happy. I see very little attempt on her part to see what things he likes and indulging him. Also, as others have pointed out, she seems to take care of herself (the frozen dinner) but doesn't have the common courtesy to turn to Neil and say "would you like something"..much like the soup shoveling conversation. She wasn't listening to him and his emotions, and instead launched into a story about HER feelings. I tend to think (and I'm just speculating here) that her idea of a perfect relationship is when she is getting everything she wants (as evidenced by kicking Neil out, etc. when she doesn't like the conversation).

Ashley/Dave - Ack. What can be said that hasn't been repeated before? There is no way to spin anything she says or does (in my opinion). It's all about her, and how she feels. Again, she doesn't even consider him or what he wants, needs or how he feels. It's all about her, her sacrifices her pain, her feelings. To claim she is trying, based on what we've seen is, to me, insulting. I now just view her as a spoiled, petulant child. I'm not sure where she is getting her notions of a good marriage, but obviously, she wouldn't know a good relationship if it bit her in the butt. I can understand that because she had no chemistry from the get-go that she shut down. But her constant attempts to blame him are getting tiresome. She doesn't communicate anything, but sure has a mouthful to say in TH and to other people. Her nastiness with David about the way he "treats her" made me laugh. She just wanted an out, as others have said, and she got her golden ticket.

 

That's not to say that the men are perfect, mind you. I'm just finding these women so difficult to comiserate with, because they keep using the word "partnership" yet honestly aren't trying to create a true partnership!

[Neurochick]

There are three things that strike me about the women this season, which was reinforced with this episode:

1. They have very unrealistic views of marriage and partnership

2. They are bad at communicating in a way to grow said partnership or allow for open discourse

3. It's all about them

 

 

Sometimes I get the feeling that these people, some of the men included, have watched romantic comedies and moves like The Notebook all of their lives and believe that's what true love is.  

[Koda1969]

Sometimes I get the feeling that these people, some of the men included, have watched romantic comedies and moves like The Notebook all of their lives and believe that's what true love is.  

 

Totally agree! There is a lot that goes into a good relationship or marriage, and it's not always flowers and hearts. Actually, your comment previously about Dyson and Kitchenaid made me chuckle. I have a sideline cake-baking business out of the house. I had an old Kitchenaid that I pretty much did my best to make work. A few months back, my husband came home with a brand new "professional" series Kitchenaid (that I wasn't expecting). I tell ya, I could have kissed him for days! Oh, and he takes the garbage out, too..and walks our dogs ;-) THAT is love, in my opinion haha

 

They (the couples) want all the sparks, but don't want to do any of the real work that goes into making those sparks. They think it should just "happen".

[ProzacQueen]

This episode, was just a mess (like every other episode..lol).

 

Neil is what I like to call "left-brained", because he is similar to my husband, who I also call "left-brained", while Sam and myself are what I call "right-brainers". The left-brainers  I just see left-brainers ruled by their head and thinking, while right-brainers are ruled by their hearts and emotions. My husband makes logical decisions, where a lot of my decisions are based on what I'm feeling. It like my husband has feelings and whatnot, but he is too busy trying to figure out how to fix the problem, instead of emoting about it, and it comes across as being emotionally detached.

 

I agree with everyone else, on the Ashley situation. She was looking for her "out", and now she has it. While David did pull a bonehead move (more like bonehead wording), Ashley just took it and ran with it. It was hilarious to watch, because of all the BS she said. It was so non-sensical, based on her behavior we have seen, the past 10 episodes. I also got a kick out of her friend's talking head, because you could tell that the struggle was real, when her friend was trying to explain it all. 

 

David at the cemetary, equals raging secondhand embarrassment for me. It was just so bizarre and forced, that I cringed the whole way through. From bringing the 6-pack of beer prop, to the emotional breakdown that seemed so fake to me. It was a mix of "is he REALLY that distraught over his dad" mixed with "that was super tacky to use something that personal, as a plot point". Anyhoo, I just thought the whole scene was cringe worthy.

 

Vanessa and Tres seemed so mis-matched to me this episode. Tres seems to be into the small, thoughtful gestures, and overwhelmed by big ones. Where as Vanessa seems to be into huge romantic gestures, while totally overlooking all the small, thoughtful ones, that are thrown her way. He seemed overwhelmed by her gift basket, not because of what was in it, but because it was so in your face, While Vanessa seemed indifferent to all the little things he did for her, like the little pot of flowers and the cold medicine. Vanessa just comes across, as the type of person, who thinks what a person does directly correlates to how they feel about her. The bigger the thing, the more they like/love her, where the smaller the thing they like/love her less.

[Koda1969]

He seemed overwhelmed by her gift basket, not because of what was in it, but because it was so in your face.

 

Agree completely with this! The one thing that struck me about her gift, is how she used the word "love" on every tag. To me, the worst thing you can do is force that word when someone isn't ready. It puts a lot of pressure on the person and the relationship. They've only known each other a month, and sometimes real love needs time to develop. Don't go scaring the guy with a dozen tags about the ways you love him!!

[AussieBabe]

Those sparks don't just occur, and I feel like these people want instant microwave marriages. My parents have been together since they were 14 and 17, respectively. They put a lot of time and work in to that. What they have built didn't happen overnight. There are still things my daddy does that drive my mum totally crazy. Other times, I'll catch her looking at him with total admiration and love written all over her face when he's done something like having dinner ready when she gets off work. I'm like her in that I love the little things. I'm happy when I come home to kids who have already done homework, a clean kitchen, etc.

These people need to put down the rom-coms and stop reading romance novels. Vanessa's expectations seem unrealistic, and she hasn't even named them. She seemed totally underwhelmed with the birthday gift. Most women would be happy with their guys remembering their birthdays. Maybe she was expecting diamonds, rose petals, candles, and the works. For all we know, he might have taken her for a birthday dinner that night or during the weekend since she was probably tired from her new job. Sometimes the little gestures are the ones that mean the most.

Ashley...what in the whole hell? You've treated David like a stranger for 33 days. Suddenly, on day 34 he has ruined what you could potentially have and you "obviously" have feelings? Where? I'm glad he said that he didn't know anything about her friends, family, or anything because she won't talk to him. She didn't deny it. She just proceeded to walk away five separate times. That annoys me. Respect a person enough to hear what they have to say even if you have a different opinion. Maybe in some roundabout, mindf*ck of a way, she cares.

Sam is getting the redemption edit. I don't know what to make of her. I find it hard to believe that over the course of what appears to be days, she has changed that much. I can't say because editing is so wonky.

After watching 90 Day Fiance season finale, I saw that the couples on there did their talking heads while sitting together in their homes. It always looked like they were doing more of a solo confessional. When the camera panned out to show who was still together, you could see both people sitting side by side. It was like they were watching the show and commenting on the scenes after the fact. If MAFS does the TH in post-season commentary form for some of the TH, that might explain why Ashley is more talkative in the TH. It looks like some TH were filmed before, during, and after the show had ended. Editors need to do better because Sam was wearing that black/white shirt weeks ago but she had it on this week and talking about how she's starting to like her husband.

Edited February 11, 2016 by AussieBabe

[izabella]

It's amazing how dead-fish Ashley could suddenly become so animated and able to speak in full sentences and even paragraphs!  No blank stares, no monosyllabic replies, and she actually asked David some questions.  Whatevs, Ashley.  Don't care about your acting.

 

Vanessa seems totally checked out on her "marriage."  It's like she's fading out before our eyes.

 

Sam doesn't fool me; if she cares about anything here, it's getting whatever payout she's supposed to get for being part of this show.  Actually, she gave it away after she and Neil "moved" into their new place when she said, "I like this place.  It will be a good place for us to STAY."  Not live, stay, like a hotel.

 

None of these people are going to make it as couples. 

Edited February 11, 2016 by izabella

[Crazy Bird Lady]

I'm an on-line gamer, and I just named a basilisk "Ashley" (they turn people to stone just by looking at them).

Now all I need is a critter that describes Sam... a psychotic monkey, maybe?

Edited February 11, 2016 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Drogo]

I don't carry a purse myself, but question for those of you who do...

 

When you're in your own home, do you carry your purse from room to room with you as Ashley does?  Why would she do this?   

[ProzacQueen]

I don't carry a purse myself, but question for those of you who do...

 

When you're in your own home, do you carry your purse from room to room with you as Ashley does?  Why would she do this?   

LMAO! No I don't. I tend to absentmindedly put mine down somewhere, then go on a hunt later, when I'm looking for it. Like this morning, I put it on top of my washing machine, moved it because I had to do laundry, and right at this very moment, I have no idea where I put it.

 

Ashley is an odd duck, so I have no idea why she would do it. Off the top of my head, I would think that she has something in there, that she wants no one to see.

Her purse is like Gretchen Weiners hair...it's full of secrets.

[rab01]

Living with someone like that can destroy a person emotionally, but the narcs nearly always get off scot-free because they have no conscience and simply charm their way out of it.

 

It's said that narcissism is the only disease for which everyone is treated, not the one who's actually got it. It's the narc's victims that end up on anti-depressant and anti-anxiety meds, not the narc. That's liable to be Neil in a few years. I hope he gets out before then.

Not a bad description of my ex-wife. She never feels remorse because she always always believes she's right. And, yeah it does grind you down. That said, I still wouldn't call it abuse. I don't think there is always intent to hurt or control the other person. If you always believe you are right, you naturally tell people what you think and it wears them down. It's just an extremely damaging personality with which to live.

 

Until reading this board, I wouldn't have labeled it "narcissistic" because she was perfectly capable of caring about other people and doing things for them. It was just always through the prism of believing that she was always right.  I called it "always being the hero of her own story."

[Evil Queen]

I don't carry a purse myself, but question for those of you who do...

 

When you're in your own home, do you carry your purse from room to room with you as Ashley does?  Why would she do this?   

 

Um no. I have a spot I leave it in and that is it. I only pick it up and move it if I have to get something out of it and I usually take it to where I was sitting down then when done put it back. Otherwise it stays in the same spot until I leave. LOL I was wondering why she was always dragging it around. Either she just got to the house for filming or getting ready to run out the door...or she is hiding something in her purse and is worried David might look in it. Which heck even my husband doesn't go in my purse. I wouldn't care if he did but he would ask before doing so. I can't imagine David would even think to go in her purse and look around. 

  For those saying its the small things done for them that are what you love...I agree. Small things done/given can mean so much more then something bigger or extravagant. 

[Snarklepuss]

Narcissists are abusive. And the fact that they hide it so well is exactly why a lot of people don't believe it when others tell them that the person is abusive. They don't see that side of them. Having worked with a woman who was EXACTLY like Sam in almost every aspect, I'm seeing narcissism. It has already been mentioned, but that touching the face thing that she did directly after he said he didn't like it - that's one example of the shit people like her do. Doesn't look like a huge deal, but it translates into her not respecting his boundaries. 

 

I wouldn't be in her presence for any longer than I had to be.

 

ETA: The woman I worked for wasn't a gross slob like Sam. She at least had that going for her.

 

I just recently worked for a woman exactly like this myself and I agree with you about Sam and the abusiveness of narcissists.  It can go by unnoticed to most of the world because they are good at hiding it.  The rest of the office thought she was a sweetheart because that's the persona she presents to most of the world, but those of us who worked for her knew otherwise and there was no way to explain to anyone that didn't work closely with her what we were going through because they likely wouldn't have believed us - Her abuse was THAT insidious.  Pretty much half the department left in the year she was its head.  Of course, true to "The Peter Principle", she got "kicked upstairs" out to one of our offices in the Midwest.  I feel sorry for the people who are working for her now but we all had a party here when she left!  But getting back to Sam, yes, I recognize that what she is doing is abusive.  Of course one can argue that if the person on the receiving end doesn't register the behavior as abuse, it's not abuse, but I don't agree with that.  it's still abuse and if the recipient somehow likes being abused and either ignores it or acts all happy-happy when the abuser disrespects or demeans them, that doesn't make it any less abuse.  And I do believe that one day it will take its toll on the person when they "wake up".  Neil may be willing to put up with a LOT for some reason but one day even he will likely not be able to take it anymore.  I sometimes wonder if Neil himself has an agenda that's making him want to "play along" with Sam, at least for now, although I just can't see him putting up with it forever.  I have seen him take behavior from her that I would have flat out told her off for several times, and that's just what we see on camera!

 

BTW, I didn't accept my ex-bosses abuse.  She told me I was a "strong personality" (which may be partially true but I am nothing if not polite and cooperative with my supervisors or I wouldn't have lasted in this business for so many decades!).  It wasn't that, it was that I am a reformed "picked-on" kid and I stand up to bullies like her.  Of course she HATED me and did her best to try to get rid of me, but she didn't bank on the fact that I had a positive reputation with the big bosses at the company that preceded her, especially my former boss who is now one of the company heads.  So she didn't get anywhere.  I told her that I had stood up to bullies far worse than her in my time and I was not a quitter.  Soon after this she learned that management was going to transfer her anyway, so what did she do?  Adopt a fake-nice persona with me and the rest of the department for the next 5 months until she left.  Of course she couldn't resist finding insidious ways to put us down and make our lives difficult until that happened although she spent most of her time in the Midwest for those 5 months which is the only reason why the rest of us didn't leave!  Our new boss is almost exactly the opposite, and we deserve it!

Edited February 11, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[ProzacQueen]

Narcissists are interesting to watch....from afar. Having to actually deal with them, is mentally taxing, and emotionally draining.

[izabella]

I don't carry a purse myself, but question for those of you who do...

 

When you're in your own home, do you carry your purse from room to room with you as Ashley does?  Why would she do this?   

 

Hahaha, of course not.  She's doing that because she always wants it with her in case she wants to quickly run out of house and away from David.

Edited February 11, 2016 by izabella

[ClareWalks]

Perhaps the purse holds her battery pack and Personality Emulator.

[Pepper Mostly]

I don't carry a purse myself, but question for those of you who do...

 

When you're in your own home, do you carry your purse from room to room with you as Ashley does?  Why would she do this?   

LOL, I just noticed this in the last episode! Does she think David will look inside? ("I need David to give my purse some space"). Are her drugs in there?Her stash of M&M's?  My guess is her vibrator. 

[Snarklepuss]

All Neil has to do is to return to his own apartment. He is not a helpless child, nor is he dependent on Sam financially or through children. You are talking about personal experiences which sound awful, but none of you know Sam or Neil . I understand there are different types of abusive, but unless Neil tells us he is abused and forced to stay with Sam, I don't believe it.

 

I've said this before, but I have theorized that Neil may actually be a masochist and LIKE being abused.  But just because he likes it doesn't make it any less abuse.  Most people up against some of the crap Sam has slung at Neil would be running for the hills and/or telling her off, me included!

[gunderda]

Someone said Tres gave Vanessa a 'box of scents' - that wasn't just any box of perfume, that was pretty expensive perfume.  It's my favorite kinda and a bottle of that is about $150.  And that was a gift box of some sort, I couldn't tell what was all in it, so probably more in the $200 range. 

 

 

Here is how text-gate went.

 

1. David said he was talking to a friend and found out that him and Ashley have a mutual friend.  

2. During the argument David tells Ashley it's a mutual friend

3. Ashley tells David she doesn't know this girl

4. It turns into a mutual friend who has a friend that is friends with Ashley

5. Ashley claims she talked to the girl (after saying she didn't know her) and David somehow found this girl on Facebook and added her and the girl claims she didn't know David until then

 

Then David tells his brother that there is a text convo about him explaining to this girl that he wants to talk to her to ask her questions about Ashley. 

 

The text convo should surface!!!

Edited February 11, 2016 by gunderda

[BunnySlippers]

I don't carry a purse myself, but question for those of you who do...

 

When you're in your own home, do you carry your purse from room to room with you as Ashley does?  Why would she do this?   

I always put my purse down in a spot I've reserved for it in the house. If I need something, I go to my purse and get the stuff out. I don't think any normal woman walks around their house carrying their purse with them.

 

I can think of a few reasons why Ashley is doing this:

- She's ready to bolt out of the house at any moment (I wonder if she wanted to leave, but the producers stopped her and turned her back, when she kept trying to walk out on David during their TextGate fight).

- She has some things in there she doesn't want David to find.

- She has some stuff in there she needs all the time.

- She doesn't trust the film crew and doesn't want them to rifle through her purse and either find something she doesn't want them to see or to actually steal something. I wouldn't be surprised if she thought that low of them.

[Evil Queen]

  But getting back to Sam, yes, I recognize that what she is doing is abusive.  Of course one can argue that if the person on the receiving end doesn't register the behavior as abuse, it's not abuse, but I don't agree with that.  it's still abuse and if the recipient somehow likes being abused and either ignores it or acts all happy-happy when the abuser disrespects or demeans them, that doesn't make it any less abuse.  And I do believe that one day it will take its toll on the person when they "wake up".  Neil may be willing to put up with a LOT for some reason but one day even he will likely not be able to take it anymore.  I sometimes wonder if Neil himself has an agenda that's making him want to "play along" with Sam, at least for now, although I just can't see him putting up with it forever.  I have seen him take behavior from her that I would have flat out told her off for several times, and that's just what we see on camera!

 

BTW, I didn't accept my ex-bosses abuse.  She told me I was a "strong personality" (which may be partially true but I am nothing if not polite and cooperative with my supervisors or I wouldn't have lasted in this business for so many decades!).

 

I have wondered if Neil doesn't do more because he is very aware of the cameras and doesn't want to come off a certain way. I think he if he stood up and spoke back to her, in a way we would actually like him to, that there would be many out here calling him out on him and saying he was so horrible for how he was to her. Or he just say how it would be speaking up to her and said screw it I'm not going to try again because of how she reacts and he rather have try to be keep it more on the peaceful side as best he can. Then there is the chance it could be other reasons he just has put up with it. I don't think we will ever truly know  unless he will really want to talk about it. 

  Good for you for standing up to the ex boss. I feel for anyone that has to deal with a boss that way. It is a tough spot to be in when its your job. Glad you have a better one now. 

[okerry]

I'm an on-line gamer, and I just named a basilisk "Ashley" (they turn people to stone just by looking at them).

Now all I need is a critter that describes Sam... a psychotic monkey, maybe?

I'm an on-line gamer, and I just named a basilisk "Ashley" (they turn people to stone just by looking at them).

Now all I need is a critter that describes Sam... a psychotic monkey, maybe?

Try "Screaming Harpy." Though Psychotic Monkey is good, too.

 

I've said this before, but I have theorized that Neil may actually be a masochist and LIKE being abused.  But just because he likes it doesn't make it any less abuse.  Most people up against some of the crap Sam has slung at Neil would be running for the hills and/or telling her off, me included!

My take is that Neil believes putting up with Sam's poor treatment is just part of being married - especially in an arranged married, like this one. He feels that if he cam just tolerate it long enough, things will gradually get better. While the trouble is, Sam will indeed throw him crumbs from time to time to keep him dangling and he'll think "things are getting better" - when they really aren't. 

 

Saddest part is, he'll resign himself to staying with her no matter what she does - treating him like crap, having something on the side, etc. - because that's what a committed partner does. And he's going to miss out on the pleasures of a relationship/marriage that is actually healthy and waste his life on Sam. Hate to see it.

[Snarklepuss]

I don't carry a purse myself, but question for those of you who do...

 

When you're in your own home, do you carry your purse from room to room with you as Ashley does?  Why would she do this?   

 

I sometimes take my purse into the room where I'm sitting if my cell phone is in there and it's too big for me to feel like rummaging through it to take it out.  But other than that, no.  And Ashley's purse isn't as big as mine.  If I had her purse it would be easier to get the phone out.

 

Why would she do this?  Perhaps she doesn't trust the film crew.  When strangers are in my house that I may not trust I usually make sure I know where my purse is and keep it away from them.  But with her you never know....She has a lot to hide.  Maybe she keeps her cell phone in there because she's afraid David will look at it and find out the truth about her.  I just know she's hiding something big time!

[ketose]

I've said this before, but I have theorized that Neil may actually be a masochist and LIKE being abused.  But just because he likes it doesn't make it any less abuse.  Most people up against some of the crap Sam has slung at Neil would be running for the hills and/or telling her off, me included!

Experts: Sam is abusive and Neil is a masochist. Perfect marriage!

[Neurochick]

An honest question.  What really is abuse?  If Sam is abusive, is Ashley abusive also?  What is considered abusive behavior.  One person told me that abuse is denying the other person's person-hood, seeing the other person only as they relate to you, instead of as a complete person.

 

Where as Vanessa seems to be into huge romantic gestures, while totally overlooking all the small, thoughtful ones, that are thrown her way.

 

 

Like I keep saying, Vanessa has read too many romance novels and has seen too many movies. She thinks life is supposed to be that way.  I used to think that too, until a wise person told me that if life really was like in a romance novel, we'd all drop dead of heart attacks and nothing in the world would ever get done; no one can survive with non stop drama and passion every day of their lives.  So the little gestures are more important than the sweeping ones because we can take them, don't know if that makes any sense.   

[Snarklepuss]

My take is that Neil believes putting up with Sam's poor treatment is just part of being married - especially in an arranged married, like this one. He feels that if he cam just tolerate it long enough, things will gradually get better. While the trouble is, Sam will indeed throw him crumbs from time to time to keep him dangling and he'll think "things are getting better" - when they really aren't. 

 

Saddest part is, he'll resign himself to staying with her no matter what she does - treating him like crap, having something on the side, etc. - because that's what a committed partner does. And he's going to miss out on the pleasures of a relationship/marriage that is actually healthy and waste his life on Sam. Hate to see it.

 

I don't know, some of what he let go by was so over the top demeaning and bitchy, and the way he acted in response was so completely wussy and obsequious that it didn't ping to me like someone putting up with someone hoping they'll change.  I don't sense any sense of resignation in him, in fact, it looks like he's either the best actor out there and having us all on or he's literally eating her shit up.  And I vote for the latter.  Now I don't want to say anything potentially sexist but most men I know personally don't put up with anyone who does shit like that to them unless they're lovin' it big time.  And I know plenty of men who would eat her shit up and ask for seconds.  Neil reminds me of them.

[qtpye]

I don't know, some of what he let go by was so over the top demeaning and bitchy, and the way he acted in response was so completely wussy and obsequious that it didn't ping to me like someone putting up with someone hoping they'll change.  I don't sense any sense of resignation in him, in fact, it looks like he's either the best actor out there and having us all on or he's literally eating her shit up.  And I vote for the latter.  Now I don't want to say anything potentially sexist but most men I know personally don't put up with anyone who does shit like that to them unless they're lovin' it big time.  And I know plenty of men who would eat her shit up and ask for seconds.  Neil reminds me of them.

 

 

I agree that Neil might be just an incredibly passive weak man.  I think a big red flag for me is that when it was revealed that a lot of his friends are like Sam.  For some reason, Neil is attracted to this type of person, romantically and in friendship.

 

He also probably is not a very sexual person and will only be intimate if the woman initiates and does all the work.  In other words, I do not think he is frustrated with the lack of sexual intimacy, the way some guys would be.

 

I bet you Sam has been attracting men like Neil all her life and was hoping for a more assertive type of guy, who would be able take the reigns in their relationship. This is probably the reason why Neil is a huge disappointment to her, but it does not excuse her bad behavior.

 

She will only stay with Neil, because of the lucrative opportunities it provides.  I do not ever see these two consummating the marriage.

Edited February 11, 2016 by qtpye

[Vinyasa]

David, you must be exhausted chasing Ashley. We are all exhausted listening to you trying to save this marriage. 

 

Ashley wanted to play Bridal dress up and when you didn't look like Brad Pitt there never was a chance. Just give up now.

 

Text me for drinks  and I'll explain it all.

[Paddywagon]

I don't think Neil is a masochist, he's just trying to avoid setting off Sam. I really believe he wants to make it work, as futile as we all know it is.

If you notice, Sam's roomie is also very quiet around Sam. She gave Neil advice at the bbq about how to handle Sam and Neil is following that advice. Everyone tiptoes around Sam. Everyone tries not to set her off. When Neil stood up to her on the honeymoon, she stormed off. When he stood up to her at her place, she told him to leave and again, stormed off. And that's only what was caught on camera. So now he's trying a different approach based on the advice he got at the bbq.

Neil's a smart guy, for sure. He's trying different things to get along with her. It's wearing him down so I believe he really is in this. It looks pathetic to us but when he finally gets free he'll know he gave it his all. That's true freedom.

[mythoughtis]

Okay - which is it?  Ashley doesn't know 'this girl'.... but yet she knows how to call her, and she describes 'this girl' to the other Ashley as 'one of my friends'.

 

She is not interested in David, never has been. As I posted in the prior episode; put this in context.  It was almost immediately after she had the expert tell David she wasn't attracted to him, and not to touch her.  She couldn't name one thing she liked about David (I can say one thing I like about the checker at the grocery store). She was too exhausted to even come up with one suggestion to make it better ' I want to want (yes, she wrote both wants) to make it better......'.  She was 'alone' at the party, etc.  As David said, he's scrambling for someone to tell him something about Ashley as to whether she acts like this with everyone she dates. Even if he did tell someone he would ask them out for drinks.... at this point they have 9 days till decision time. He could set up a date for after that, and I wouldn't see a problem with it. 

Edited February 11, 2016 by mythoughtis

[Vinyasa]

When you're in your own home, do you carry your purse from room to room with you as Ashley does?  Why would she do this?

 

Because that  not her house. She probably only shows up for filming.

[Soup333]

I just recently worked for a woman exactly like this myself and I agree with you about Sam and the abusiveness of narcissists.  It can go by unnoticed to most of the world because they are good at hiding it.  The rest of the office thought she was a sweetheart because that's the persona she presents to most of the world, but those of us who worked for her knew otherwise and there was no way to explain to anyone that didn't work closely with her what we were going through because they likely wouldn't have believed us - Her abuse was THAT insidious.  Pretty much half the department left in the year she was its head.  Of course, true to "The Peter Principle", she got "kicked upstairs" out to one of our offices in the Midwest.  I feel sorry for the people who are working for her now but we all had a party here when she left!  

 

It wasn't Ohio, was it? 

 

I marveled at the narcissist I worked under. I had never encountered anything like it in my life. It was truly amazing how she could be such a bitch, but then turn around and be over the top nice to someone else. Everyone walked on eggshells around her, but talked about her behind her back. By the time she fired me (little did she know I was just about to put in my notice anyway), I couldn't even look her in the face. It was like staring into the eyes of true evil. She once docked my pay (retroactively, because she had already approved it) because I went to the company's American Heart Association chili cookoff. Yes, everyone else went to the chili cookoff too, but evidently I wasn't allowed to go because she hadn't told me I could. It didn't occur to me as a grown ass person to ask for permission to eat chili. If you could have seen the shit-eating grin on her face when I asked her about it - as if she had been waiting for me to say something - I had to leave the building to calm down. She fired me like two days later. I was the fifth person she fired in six months. I had never been fired from a job before, but I was relieved as all hell to get out of there. 

 

The way that Sam treats Neil reminds me of that woman so much. I feel sorry for him. Unless he likes it, which is possible. My supervisor had been married forever.

 

To answer the question of what abuse is (if it's not obvious physical or sexual abuse) I think it's when you have to watch what you say and do so you won't set that person off. 

[Waterlilly]

I noticed the purse thing right away, my thought was that she is hiding something. She not only grabbed it and took it with her everywhere, she tucked it under her arm like someone was going to snatch it. Girl is crazy like a fox, she saw her out and jumped. David says it all between the lines in his interviews. The guy needs Jaclyn to set him up with some Tito's Vodka. I think our time line is way off with Sam and Neil, and maybe out of order. Vanessa girl open your eyes to reality!

[izabella]

I don't think Neil is a masochist, he's just trying to avoid setting off Sam. I really believe he wants to make it work, as futile as we all know it is.

If you notice, Sam's roomie is also very quiet around Sam. She gave Neil advice at the bbq about how to handle Sam and Neil is following that advice. Everyone tiptoes around Sam. Everyone tries not to set her off. When Neil stood up to her on the honeymoon, she stormed off. When he stood up to her at her place, she told him to leave and again, stormed off. And that's only what was caught on camera. So now he's trying a different approach based on the advice he got at the bbq.

Neil's a smart guy, for sure. He's trying different things to get along with her. It's wearing him down so I believe he really is in this. It looks pathetic to us but when he finally gets free he'll know he gave it his all. That's true freedom.

 

I keep wondering why Neil is so willing to walk on eggshells like that.  Is he so committed to the financial payout that he'll do whatever it takes to survive 6 weeks of pretend-marriage to Sam?  Or does he really believe relationships are usually so unbalanced and anxiety-inducing?

 

Neil needs to find a cool, nerdy girl in the science world.  They exist!  One of my friends is a scientist at a university, and I've met many of the grad students who work in his lab and former grad students - there are some very cool, brainy young women out there who would appreciate Neil's sense of humor and style.  He needs to see how much FUN, and how easy a relationship can be, before he decides to twist himself into a pretzel for the likes of Sam.

[Jack Sampson]

I noticed the purse thing right away, my thought was that she is hiding something. She not only grabbed it and took it with her everywhere, she tucked it under her arm like someone was going to snatch it. Girl is crazy like a fox, she saw her out and jumped. David says it all between the lines in his interviews. The guy needs Jaclyn to set him up with some Tito's Vodka. I think our time line is way off with Sam and Neil, and maybe out of order. Vanessa girl open your eyes to reality!

She didn't want David to see any texts from a certain "ex" boyfriend.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

I don't carry a purse myself, but question for those of you who do...

 

When you're in your own home, do you carry your purse from room to room with you as Ashley does?  Why would she do this?   

 

My theory is that she keeps her stash in there.

Pot? Pharmaceuticals? Anti-psychotics? I don't know. But that woman isn't what I would call 'normal'.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Crazy Bird Lady

[KnoxForPres]

David only became laughable to me this ep.

What a d-bag piece of shit "wifey" card carryiing member he is. I don't even care if he looked for a piece of ass text gate, I would too, but the cemetery scene was more 2nd hand embarrassment than 2016 should allow. The fiuck, David.

What about Ashley still caring while endlessly rolling around in night vision while he had his interminable goodbye. Saying "oh yeah, she doesn't know you" or such Oh, burn...or why the fuck do I care is what he should be thinking.

These are two lame ass people who are boring- nothing more or less- that was my takeaway.

Edited February 12, 2016 by KnoxForPres

[okerry]

She didn't want David to see any texts from a certain "ex" boyfriend.

Bull's eye.

[Nffftshewasgone]

I don't carry a purse myself, but question for those of you who do...

When you're in your own home, do you carry your purse from room to room with you as Ashley does? Why would she do this?

She was afraid he'd steal it, or her mustache wax.

[okerry]

She didn't want David to see any texts from a certain "ex" boyfriend.

Which would explain why she went so ballistic over David's Textgate. I'd bet money she's been texting and talking with Mr. Nine-Years the whole time. It's "the lady doth protest too much" in action.

[anarchyangel84]

I'm a little late to this party- but that's ok.

Ashley really pissed me off this episode- more than usual. I can't believe how she acted. I usually side with with the girl in this kind of situation. Maybe it's because I don't like Ashley- or it's because she hasn't wanted a thing to do with him....but I believe David. He's tried everything & she's been a closed off bitch. As devoted as he's been, I don't see him doing anything that would hurt his chances with her or set him back. If he was going to ask a girl out, it sure as hell wouldn't be someone that knew Ashley. Ashley's been looking for a reason to get away from David- and she just found it. She's already saying that because of is, what they did have is gone. They didn't have anything before this anyway! David has kissed his wife's dog more than he's kissed his wife!!! I just realized the other night what she's going to school for. A NURSE!?! She's gonna be a person who HELPS people? God help the people she tries to "help." People are gonna want to die to get away from her. I know that's awful to say- but would you want her as your nurse? She doesn't have a warm or caring bone in her body!!

So I like what's going on with Neil & Sam right now. I've always been kind of indifferent when it comes to Sam. I think she has a bad habit of messing around when she's uncomfortable...or/and she may have ADHD. I know that I'm not used to getting compliments or getting compliments- so I tend to crack jokes (or try to) when I'm in that situation......so I kind of get that. I think I'd try a little harder in that type of situation, but when you're uncomfortable or out of your element, you tend to react the way that you're used to. But she seems to be coming around & I think she's falling for him. I know that some people don't watch the previews for next week so I'm gonna try & word this very carefully. But if you didn't watch the previews, then don't read what I'm about to type.

Because they've been doing good, I'm very confused about Sam & Neil's phone call next week. Ok so it's not a phone, whatever. Anywho, I hope what they showed isn't what really did happen, I'm hoping that what Neil said was taken out of context. I don't think it was though because I saw the extended preview they show during "From fit to fat to fit" or whatever it's called. It showed Sam pretty upset. He could've just been joking because I don't think he's that stupid. Then again he's a guy so who knows!!

[Snarklepuss]

It wasn't Ohio, was it?

 

LOL, no, don't worry, you're safe!

 

 

I marveled at the narcissist I worked under. I had never encountered anything like it in my life. It was truly amazing how she could be such a bitch, but then turn around and be over the top nice to someone else. Everyone walked on eggshells around her, but talked about her behind her back. By the time she fired me (little did she know I was just about to put in my notice anyway), I couldn't even look her in the face. It was like staring into the eyes of true evil. She once docked my pay (retroactively, because she had already approved it) because I went to the company's American Heart Association chili cookoff. Yes, everyone else went to the chili cookoff too, but evidently I wasn't allowed to go because she hadn't told me I could. It didn't occur to me as a grown ass person to ask for permission to eat chili. If you could have seen the shit-eating grin on her face when I asked her about it - as if she had been waiting for me to say something - I had to leave the building to calm down. She fired me like two days later. I was the fifth person she fired in six months. I had never been fired from a job before, but I was relieved as all hell to get out of there. 

 

The way that Sam treats Neil reminds me of that woman so much. I feel sorry for him. Unless he likes it, which is possible. My supervisor had been married forever.

 

To answer the question of what abuse is (if it's not obvious physical or sexual abuse) I think it's when you have to watch what you say and do so you won't set that person off. 

 

The more you tell me about this woman, the more she reminds me of my ex-boss, seriously.  I could tell you similar stories......Her husband is the one she sends huge 24 point lists of things for him to do.  He's even more subservient to her than a 1950s housewife!  I can't believe the things she makes him do like his entire life revolves around her.  He's even uprooting his own career for her, which admittedly is not as spectacular as hers, but other than his job his entire existence is devoted to her and her career alone.  I can totally see Sam doing that with Neil down the line if he lets her. 

 

Like many on the board, I had such high hopes for Neil.  He seemed like a kind of off-beat, interesting guy and someone who would want more of a give and take relationship.  After that first incident where he grabbed the ball and showed some backbone when she basically called him a "pussy" he seemed to turn completely around and lose any spine he seemed to have.  Unless he is playing along with Sam until he can rid himself of her, I have no other explanation but to think that he likes living in the shadow of a woman who will control everything he does and make his live revolve around her.

 

My ex boss made everyone, including one director in particular, bring in a doctor's note when they were out sick more than one day in a row.  No one in any job I've ever had did that - She just wanted to show how "by the book" she was - She thought it would impress management, who to their credit doesn't care about stuff like that.  Last February I suffered a bad stomach virus, it was snowing 6 inches every other day for a month, plus I had water damage in my bedroom from ice damming (my carpet was completely soaked and ruined, plus smelled horrible from the backing getting wet) and she told me I couldn't work from home because my job didn't lend itself to working from home - Meanwhile the head of HR is famous for telling everyone to stay home and "be safe" if it's snowing that bad.  Never mind how sick I was and the stuff I was dealing with at home (which I told her about).  I went to our HR rep. after that to complain about her and was not given the usual garbage, but nods and sympathy.  Then I complained to my old boss, who was very sympathetic.  I was a mess and on the verge of a breakdown!  It was almost right after that that she did her 180 "fake nice" changeover - Interesting!  I'm sorry to hear that it ended in getting fired for you - I know that if it weren't for my old boss that probably would have happened to me too.  I know that several other people felt forced out or quit under her.  Of course, her career is taking off now and nothing will stop her till she reaches the top, but she will leave a pile of bodies in her wake wherever she goes.....

[Paddywagon]

I keep wondering why Neil is so willing to walk on eggshells like that. Is he so committed to the financial payout that he'll do whatever it takes to survive 6 weeks of pretend-marriage to Sam? Or does he really believe relationships are usually so unbalanced and anxiety-inducing?

...

I think he believes if he keeps trying it will work out, just like his grandmother's arranged marriage. I don't get the sense that he's in it for the cash at all.

He probably has an excel spreadsheet with associated graphs showing the success rate of certain efforts over others and a probability chart of this working out. Just sayin'....

I love Neil. :)

[Snarklepuss]

I don't think Neil is a masochist, he's just trying to avoid setting off Sam. I really believe he wants to make it work, as futile as we all know it is.

If you notice, Sam's roomie is also very quiet around Sam. She gave Neil advice at the bbq about how to handle Sam and Neil is following that advice. Everyone tiptoes around Sam. Everyone tries not to set her off. When Neil stood up to her on the honeymoon, she stormed off. When he stood up to her at her place, she told him to leave and again, stormed off. And that's only what was caught on camera. So now he's trying a different approach based on the advice he got at the bbq.

Neil's a smart guy, for sure. He's trying different things to get along with her. It's wearing him down so I believe he really is in this. It looks pathetic to us but when he finally gets free he'll know he gave it his all. That's true freedom.

 

The only other scenario I see for Neil is that he is biding his time with Sam until he can make a graceful exit after 6 weeks.  Only in that case I think he'd be doing it for show because he's on TV, not because he really wanted to give it an honest try.  I would hope that he would know by now if he weren't a masochist that he would not want to continue past the 6 week mark, so anything he does to try to get along with her at this point would not be genuine but just to survive and honor the contract.  I actually think that's the case with David because he definitely knows there's no way this is going to last past the 6 weeks and he seems scripted and fake in his constant talking heads in which he claims to be so devoted to his "wife".  With Neil I'm not so sure about that.  He has shown more genuine signs of wanting to make it work past the 6 weeks, which if that's true means to me that he would have to be a masochist because who would genuinely want to make anything work with Sam unless they were one?  LOL  The only other scenario I could see is Neil perhaps selling out to the idea of making extra money by staying with her, but if that's the case his desire to make things work with her would not be genuine but motivated by $$$.  I don't really believe that Neil is a sell-out for money, so I have to defer to the masochist theory.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[MusicFan85]

The couples should get therapy.  They were matched for the wrong reasons and it's making them worse.

 

The "text gate" is sketchy.  David says Ashley knows the friend, but Ashley denies that.  I'm with posters who said this could be set up.  Maybe the friend initiated the invitation.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but David says that he asked her for drinks.  I didn't hear if he DID get together with her or if a meeting was set.  If the person knew Ashley, they could just say no.  If they didn't get together and are not having a relationship, that's not cheating to me.  He still doesn't know anything about Ashley.  She doesn't care about his feelings, only hers.  Won't give him a breadcrumb of niceness even when he's paying the bills.  David should just give up.  But since he chose to participate in this experiment, this furry guy is determined to win this maze in the best time.  The fool.  Can't believe I'm putting so much thought and care into a silly show.  Unbelievable. 

Edited February 12, 2016 by MusicFan85