S03.E11: Intimacy Part 2

[HumblePi]

He was waiting, as usual, for Sam to throw him scraps.

That was just one example of not really trying. Samantha seems to treat Neil like a block of wood, even though his personality sometimes resembles one. But really, how about a nice gesture by offering to either order food to be delivered, go out to eat some fast food or pizza, or what the heck....COOK something, how about that!? People generally respond to kindness, and I really haven't seen anything kind about Samantha.

[Soup333]

I don't know what to think of Sam and Neil.  I just like to watch him because he is SO über-nerdy that it fascinates me.  I definitely don't care for the submissive role he takes.  And she's all over it.  The one episode where they arrived at her townhouse and she directed him to make breakfast for her and the roommate while they went to the other room and bonded?  Uh, no.  Weird.

 

I totally read that as boned. And then I laughed.

[rudy10]

I will give Tres and Vanessa the benefit of the doubt regarding their gift exchanges.  Those moments may have happened without cameras and the producers made them reenact on camera which is maybe why their reactions seemed lukewarm if they were making a "scene" for the show.

 

When Neil was describing how they hug now I felt so sad and embarrassed.  Also I noticed that Sam said she only brought one wax melt to the new place which makes me think they weren't really "moving in" to the new place.

 

Oh man Ashley won the golden ticket with text gate.  Not only was she finally able to stop being nice to David but she got out of a trip to Buffalo and going to David's friend's wedding.

 

Oh David.  I think he's gone too deep in playing this reality show game.  The stupid crying and conversation at his dad's gravestone was too much.  Also, don't drink and drive bro!  I think he is just messing with Ashley at this point in his emphasis that he is her husband and she is his wife. Making her uncomfortable is clearly all has going on until their time is up.

[HumblePi]

 

When Neil was describing how they hug now I felt so sad and embarrassed.  Also I noticed that Sam said she only brought one wax melt to the new place which makes me think they weren't really "moving in" to the new place.

 

Even a Fundamentalist Christian 'side-hug' like a Duggar counts I guess.

[okerry]

Be careful falling for Sam's "nice" act towards Neil. This is often what narcissists do: If they need you for something, or if you manage to do something they like, they'll reward you so you'll stay around. But it never lasts, because they aren't doing it because they care about you. They're doing it to keep you on their string, and the minute you mess up or aren't needed you'll be severely punished in order to keep you off balance and hanging around waiting for another crumb. Works every time. Let's see what Sam does to Neil next week.

 

P.S. Note to Neil: Never, ever tell a narcissist what hurts you or what you don't like - because you can be 100% sure that they will do it at the very first opportunity. That nasty little bit when he said, "I don't like my face touched," and she said "Awww," in a nasty mocking manner and promptly grabbed his face and scrubbed his beard. That is absolutely what they do and what he can expect from her every chance she gets, now that she knows he doesn't like it. It's like handing them a loaded gun to tell them you don't like something, because they'll just aim it at your head and use it to control you - and complain that you're "too sensitive" and "overreacting" if you dare to object.

 

No normal, decent caring person would ever do that. If their partner said, "I don't like my face touched," they'd take care not to touch his face or be extra careful if it was necessary (like when kissing, which I have heard that normal couples actually do.) 

 

If there was ever any doubt that Sam is a raving narcissist, that face-scrubbing scene took away the last shred of doubt. I'm not normally in favor of domestic violence but if he'd knocked her flat on her ass for that I'd have laughed and hoped he'd do it again - except that I would really hope he'd be too busy walking out the door and never looking back to do it again.

 

As usual, the Experts don't have the first clue that Sam is a huge narcissist and is only going to make Neil's life miserable. His passivity and willingness to settle for crumbs does make him the perfect partner for her, though, and unfortunately they probably will stay together.

[Evil Queen]

Actually aerial gyms must be hot right now.  I've seen them featured on no fewer than 5 shows by now in the last 6 months.  So I'm not seeing it as all that unusual.  Perhaps "trendy" at best, but more like "typical" of someone trying to be trendy.  Nothing wrong with Aerial gyms, it looks like fun, it's just when someone like Sam latches on to it, it's after everyone else has already discovered it and she's just trying to keep up with what's in style.

 

I know where I am this has been a thing for over a year or so. I get sick of these so called "trendy" ways to work out. The local news will show them once in awhile and I just roll my eyes since most seem like such a joke. But agree that Sam the comment on it. 

 

I started to ponder something last night.  Has Ashley considered how the ramifications of her behavior may follow her after the show is over?  Or....will there not be any?  What I was thinking about was if I was sick in the hospital and Ashley walked in and introduced herself as my nurse.  Would this silly reality show be enough for me to send her away and ask for a replacement?  I have complete and total hate for the Robot, but I'm not sure.  Maybe leaning towards thinking that I actually would?!  How would others react?

 

Or maybe I'm getting ahead of myself......will this affect her ability to get a nursing job right away?  Would HR just laugh at her and say a huge "NO WAY"?  

 

For me, I'd ask for another one. There is no way I would want her around me. I would bet that anyone that doesn't see this show and has her as nurse would get a cold vibe from her and not want to deal with her. I dealt once with a terrible rude nurse and I will never again deal with that. I don't know what kind of nurse she wants to be but hopefully its not dealing with newborns and the moms because that is not the place to be a cold bitch. That is where I dealt with the one and I had pp so that was not what I needed. 

[floridaskixx]

I really don't see what you guys are seeing about Vanessa being stand-offish. guys remember that they have work days during this filming process so you're gonna be looking tired.

And Sam ain't foolin me. It's so obvious (even on social media) that she's doing this for the cameras. I like her but she seems so fake to me.

[Nffftshewasgone]

OK, made an account just so I could quote this...

STOP investing time with that dented forehead, mustached, whiny, frigid snatch!!!

Solid Gold.

Remind me to never become hospitalized in Atlanta...scariest nurse I've ever seen.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Nffftshewasgone
Quote formatting issues.

[CindyK]

As viewers, I think it's easy to lose perspective on these relationships because it's so drawn out on TV. But when Tre and Vanessa celebrated their one month anniversary last night, I was reminded just how short this process has been. I was harsh on Tre last week but I think they can make it if they are willing to put in the effort over time.

[Vinyasa]

 Oh man Ashley won the golden ticket with text gate.  Not only was she finally able to stop being nice to David but she got out of a trip to Buffalo and going to David's friend's wedding.

 

David was just going to Buffalo to see his brother and sister. He wasn't going to a wedding, right?  Neil was going to a wedding in Vegas.

 

Did I miss something ?

[rudy10]

David was just going to Buffalo to see his brother and sister. He wasn't going to a wedding, right?  Neil was going to a wedding in Vegas.

 

Did I miss something ?

 

In the after the show interview with Jaimie David mentioned that Ashley already had a plane ticket to go with him to Buffalo.  I don't know if that was the same trip as the wedding but he also mentioned being at a wedding and sitting next to an empty seat that was reserved for Ashley.

[Leanne]

So many good comments on this thread. I totally agree with those that feel David's little scene at the gravestone was contrived. If it was production's idea; he should have said no. It reeked of inauthenticity to me. If I was dead and someone brought reality show cameras to my grave; I would be pissed and haunt the hell out of that person for a week or two to show them what's what! I believe in ghosts though haha. I am disappointed in David because he gave Ashley an out with his texting. I get it; he is trying to find someone who would be interested in him and Ashley has been a robot this whole time; I am sure he is craving human connection, but could he not have waited two weeks till this was over? All he did was hand her a rejection excuse on a silver platter. I don't buy that it was to get to know Ashley better. And yeah he sounds nuts when he keeps saying his "wife" and that he is going to fight for this. He needs to stop. Just stop everything! Ugh.

Completely agree with those that say Sam is a narcissist and a bully. She reeks of both. She is shining her favour on Neil now because she currently has use for him. The moment she doesn't she will go back to abusing him. It's pretty sick. And yeah, she is always nodding her head and making agreement noises when she talks to the experts but is always looking away and not paying attention. She reminds me of a bored kid being lectured by a parent. She just wants them to leave so she can go back to whatever it was she was doing; bossing Neil around, pranking coworkers, melting wax, slurping soup and TV dinners; her usual.

And how can they seriously have Jamie on asking the participants questions? It's just gross.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Leanne

[Soup333]

P.S. Note to Neil: Never, ever tell a narcissist what hurts you or what you don't like - because you can be 100% sure that they will do it at the very first opportunity. That nasty little bit when he said, "I don't like my face touched," and she said "Awww," in a nasty mocking manner and promptly grabbed his face and scrubbed his beard. That is absolutely what they do and what he can expect from her every chance she gets, now that she knows he doesn't like it. It's like handing them a loaded gun to tell them you don't like something, because they'll just aim it at your head and use it to control you - and complain that you're "too sensitive" and "overreacting" if you dare to object.

 

If there was ever any doubt that Sam is a raving narcissist, that face-scrubbing scene took away the last shred of doubt. I'm not normally in favor of domestic violence but if he'd knocked her flat on her ass for that I'd have laughed and hoped he'd do it again - except that I would really hope he'd be too busy walking out the door and never looking back to do it again.

 

I noticed this too and said the same thing. She is an evil, evil person and always will be. If he stays, he's doomed. 

[Snewtsie]

Tres needs to get Vanessa out of the house. Take her out for her birthday! I'm getting restless just watching them night after night at home. I'd go crazy in a relationship like that. They act like they're 90 years old.

This!!  - why don't any of the couples go out dancing, drinking and having fun??  I am sure Tres would like to, but Vanessa would not go for it. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Hell Hath No Fury Like Ashley's Disingenuous Scorn
The couples are STILL working on intimacy, and it's not going particularly well. Whose marriage sucked the worst this week?

[cpcathy]

I don't know if I'm allowed to post without having watched the episode, but frankly, I come here, read all your wonderful comments and then decide to delete the episode from my DVR. Thanks, guys!

[peaceknit]

I giggled at Neil wearing his shirt inside out in the first scene.  Why didn't Sam notice the tag sticking up on the back and tell him?

Ashley is a bitch.  She was just waiting for this excuse to use and play the victim.  She obviously never talks to David off camera.  Run David Run...

 

Probably made to turn the shirt inside out by production, so as not to show any brands, I'm thinking. There was a shot of Tres in an inside out t-shirt too.

[Madding crowd]

I'm no fan of Sam's but in no way is she abusing Neil. He is a grown man, has free will, and should know how to speak. Sam is not hitting him, swearing at him or hurting him. I think she is trying. As far as her saying "He is growing on her", what else could you expect? These people are complete strangers, that is the best any of them can hope for. And if she was eating a frozen dinner it might be because she came home later than Neil. In any case, they are both adults, they both work full time and are both capable of operating a microwave. I also can't fault her for liking the "silks" activity. People should do activities they enjoy; there are very few brand new hobbies or activities and it shouldn't matter whether she is 'climbing aboard" the trend or not. Vanessa has climbed aboard the painting and wine trend and no one is faulting that (or should).

 

Neil needs to understand that the type of arranged marriage his grandparents had has no relation to today's world with women who live independently and work full time. And if he can't stand having his face touched, how is he ever going to have sex?

 

I also have no idea if Sammie is gay or straight but assuming someone is gay from a glimpse on TV is not right. Maybe she is gay, maybe she is shy and doesn't like being on TV, maybe she has anxiety and doesn't like living alone, maybe she is broke and doesn't want to pay rent on her own. We don't know.

 

As far as Ashley, I have no alternate explanations or excuses. 

[HumblePi]

When I watch Neil, I can't help obsessing about shampooing his hair and blow dry it without putting any Pennzoil 10W 30 on it.

 

[Liberty]

Probably made to turn the shirt inside out by production, so as not to show any brands, ....

 

FYI is a real stickler for not promoting without payment.  Likely character Neil's shirt had an athletic logo on it and the brand would not pay a fee.  Last season Jaclyn's character kept trying to slip a "Tito's Handmade ..." by them, so production kept blocking them or moving them.  David's character had the logo on the jacket he was wearing on his trip to Buffalo obscured too.

 

The honeymoon resorts and some of the activities on the honeymoons were prominently displayed, but none of the airlines would pay up.  It is quite possible that the honeymoon resorts were what decided the locations of the honeymoons, along with airfare.

 

They are pretty happy to display the restaurant/tavern names if they pay, but if they don't pay it's like the tavern character Moustashly went to with her friend a few episodes ago.

[Liberty]

...Sam is not .... hurting him. ...

 

Sadly, I disagree. 

 

It is quite possible people have different definitions of what constitutes abuse so what one sees as abuse, is not abuse in the eyes of another.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Liberty

[jmonkey]

David and Stacheley-I don't buy David's story either, and his story should've been easily verifiable if the woman he asked for drinks was indeed a mutual friend as stated. I laughed hard when Ashley started communicating very well (where has that been all season?) about how he disrespected the marriage and ruined everything. LOL! Let's say David really did text the woman with the intent of hooking up with her. What's his punishment from Ashley? Oh, he doesn't get sex or any kind of affection from her. Well, he wasn't getting that anyway. So she needs to be alone and won't talk to him? Well, she wasn't talking to him anyway. That has been the biggest barrier in this marriage. The fact she hasn't given him anything the entire time. We seen David prod, prod, and prod some more and all he gets is the dead fish every single time. I'm not excusing him for what he did, but that has to drain a guy and especially David who seemed so ready to fall in love with someone and spend the rest of his life with her. Also, how would her friend know what Ashley has invested in this marriage? All she gets is hearsay from Ashley who obviously has her own perception that doesn't match reality. The punishment ended up being David going home to Buffalo for a few days to give Ashley her space even though it's HIS HOUSE. Unbelievable! I agree that David really needs to grow a pair and quit trying to invest in someone who isn't worth it. The experts really screwed him, and I really hate that David texted this woman only because it takes the focus away from Ashley where it belongs. He had the upperhand and lost it. I'm not saying Ashley has to fall in love with David, but I'd expect her to be an active participant in the experiment and, at least, be respectful to the guy who is letting her live in his home. That doesn't mean affection or divulging intimate details. It just means communicating. Ashley gave David nothing until he screwed up. She didn't seem to care about the marriage at all until he got busted.

 

Neil and Sam-I'm kind of getting tired of watching this couple only because it's such a one-sided relationship. As long as Neil goes along with what Sam says or does, this marriage will work out fine. However, Neil has to walk on eggshells for Sam and if he slips up, he'll get kicked out of the house. We've already seen it and it will probably happen again. After Sam touched his face, Neil said he disliked having his face touched. What did Sam do? She touched his face again even more aggressively. Can you imagine if the roles were reversed and Neil touched Sam's face after she said she didn't like it? She'd feel so violated, and Neil would have to leave the premises immediately. It seems like he can't innocently joke without her freaking out while she can constantly mess with Neil at his expense without any repercussions. If Neil is really that selfless and fine with being whipped, then this relationship could work and more power to them. My brother and dad are whipped and their marriages are solid. It works for some people. However, to me watching it, it seems like a really sad way to live. Neil will never know how Sam is going take one of his sarcastic jokes, so he's either going to have to bite his tongue to appease her or deal with her wrath and getting kicked out of the house every time he crosses the line. 

 

Tres and Vanessa-They were really cute together this episode. I loved Vanessa's care package for Tres, and I loved Tres giving Vanessa flowers, cards and enough sweets to feed a SWAT team for her birthday. He really is romantic and should write a book. This couple isn't the most exciting, but, at least, they're making an effort and are way more committed to the process than the other 2 couples.  I give Tres mad props for cleaning. Yeah, the gifts were nice, but I was more impressed to see what he could do with a Swiffer. I'd like to see these 2 make it. I really do think they're good for each other.

Edited February 10, 2016 by jmonkey

[Vinyasa]

why don't any of the couples go out dancing, drinking and having fun??

 

I'm guessing that would take effort to have a camera crew with them and the production of this show seems cheap.

 

They showed a clip of Sam saying how she is really starting to like Neil last night and she is in the house they moved in together, which was weeks ago. The producers just throw this show together.

[Kareem]

Intimacy Part 2: Neil is lulled into a false sense of security while David continues to swim upstream like a fat salmon and Tres plays Quest to See if There's Anything That Will Make Vanessa Happy.

Ashley is still a pile of wet sand, even when she works herself into a meaningless froth. Still hoping he will run from this, save himself and his sanity, and stop carrying on about his wife and his marriage from The Land of Make Believe.

The new and improved Sam continues to horrify me because I don't trust her. Suddenly a change in location will keep the vile wildebeast from tormenting this man. I don't see it.

If Vanessa ruins this, I'll take Tres. That is all.

[ctbabe]

From my friend, Shannon

I took some time to think about David's explanation. At first I was weary. However, after some thought I believe David's intentions were pure. The reason I say this is I don't think David is a fool by any stretch. I do not believe he would be stupid enough to ask another woman out while this is being documented especially when he is trying so hard or appearing to be the good guy. Further, I don't think he would be stupid enough to ask a woman who had some association with Ashley. He may not have known how well they knew one another but he was not wrong. She was a friend of a friend. That is how she found out. IF he was going to cheat, he would pick someone she would have no chance at all of discovering. It was impulsive, poorly worded, and not the best idea. However, I don't believe he was cheating or lying to Ashley. And I do believe that she must have mentioned to him in passing she knew who the girl was probably when looking at facebook friends. He was grasping at straws trying to get info to establish a connection or it was a lame attempt at making her jealous.

[allthelight]

Intimacy Part 2: Neil is lulled into a false sense of security while David continues to swim upstream like a fat salmon and Tres plays Quest to See if There's Anything That Will Make Vanessa Happy.

Ashley is still a pile of wet sand, even when she works herself into a meaningless froth. Still hoping he will run from this, save himself and his sanity, and stop carrying on about his wife and his marriage from The Land of Make Believe.

The new and improved Sam continues to horrify me because I don't trust her. Suddenly a change in location will keep the vile wildebeast from tormenting this man. I don't see it.

If Vanessa ruins this, I'll take Tres. That is all.

 

Noooo, Tres is mine. Line up, please. :D

 

 

Great and funny recap, BTW. And so on point.

Edited February 10, 2016 by allthelight

[cecig75]

Production - Please get ANYONE other than Jamie Otis with these post game interviews.  She makes it about her and her over the top reactions,  And please please please please, during the reunion please someone on the show call out Ms. Robot as being completely fake.  Right now it seems they are all taking Ashley's side which is mind boggling

 

Jamie is writing a book, making jewelry, and hosting. I doubt her "book" will debut on the NYT best sellers list, her jewelry probably will make my fingers turn green, and hosting...i'd rather sit through Kocktails with Khloe and that's not saying much!

 

And where is Doug??? 

[MrsMommy]

I've seem a few ppl say something about the 6 pack being taking to the graveyard. My dad loved to drink when he was alive, now my siblings and I gather a few times a year with a bottle of whiskey and drink at my dads grave. It's just something some people do.

I still can't get over the episode of Vanessa leaving bc trey wasn't upset about her dog. That changed her in my eyes. I wouldn't expect a semi stranger I'm sleeping with to give two hoots if it were me dog.

I can't even with Ashley. I have so many mean things to say. But all I'm going to say is I'm utterly shocked she had a friend come over, heck I'm in shock that done even has a friend the way she acts!

[MsPH]

I think Sam really is warming up to Neil with the way she was talking about his facial expressions being cute and literally throwing herself at him. It might've been silly, but she initiating physical contact. I think she would like Neil to make a move, but he's too smart to go there while the cameras are still rolling. No way is he risking another rejection or having his kissing skills mocked or rated or whatever. He's gonna act like an awkward virgin until the cameras are gone.

 

I don't know what to believe when it comes to the texting gate, but it says something about Ashley that I actually thought she might've set the whole thing up. Maybe her friend mentioned that her friend actually knew David/had dated him briefly and Ashley asked her to contact David again just to see what he'd do. Sounds crazy, but she's just been so fake, and last week she was trying hard to make David look bad, even though he'd done nothing wrong. I think she's pretty desperate to make him the bad guy. I tend to think the truth is somewhere in the middle though, like David was stalking Ashley on facebook or something and approached one of her FB friends, but didn't want to admit to that so he pretended they already knew each other. Who knows, I just think he'd have to be really stupid and unlucky to ask some random girl out and then it turns out she knows Ashley and knows David is her husband and tells her about it. Sounds even more unlikely than Ashley setting a trap. Whatever the truth, if she thinks people will see her as a victim, then she's gonna be sorely disappointed. She never wanted anything to do with him, so whatever he did or didn't do didn't ruin anything. There was nothing to ruin! She's a miserable person and David is better off without her.

 

I hope Tres and Vanessa make it, but she does annoy me too sometimes. It's like she's expecting Tres to not live up to her expectations so even if he does something right, she can't give him too much credit.

[Madding crowd]

Sadly, I disagree. 

 

It is quite possible people have different definitions of what constitutes abuse so what one sees as abuse, is not abuse in the eyes of another.

How can you see one edited hour a week of someone's life and know they are being abused? There are enough abused people out there without floating around unfounded assumptions. It can be your opinion Neil is suffering spousal abuse, but you cannot know this.

[Soup333]

How can you see one edited hour a week of someone's life and know they are being abused? There are enough abused people out there without floating around unfounded assumptions. It can be your opinion Neil is suffering spousal abuse, but you cannot know this.

 

What I see in that edited hour is abusive. She was better this week, but if I knew/cared about Neil at all, I'd be advising him to broom that witch.

[Neurochick]

I'm no fan of Sam's but in no way is she abusing Neil. He is a grown man, has free will, and should know how to speak. Sam is not hitting him, swearing at him or hurting him. I think she is trying. As far as her saying "He is growing on her", what else could you expect? These people are complete strangers, that is the best any of them can hope for. And if she was eating a frozen dinner it might be because she came home later than Neil. In any case, they are both adults, they both work full time and are both capable of operating a microwave. I also can't fault her for liking the "silks" activity. People should do activities they enjoy; there are very few brand new hobbies or activities and it shouldn't matter whether she is 'climbing aboard" the trend or not. Vanessa has climbed aboard the painting and wine trend and no one is faulting that (or should).

 

Neil needs to understand that the type of arranged marriage his grandparents had has no relation to today's world with women who live independently and work full time. And if he can't stand having his face touched, how is he ever going to have sex?

 

I also have no idea if Sammie is gay or straight but assuming someone is gay from a glimpse on TV is not right. Maybe she is gay, maybe she is shy and doesn't like being on TV, maybe she has anxiety and doesn't like living alone, maybe she is broke and doesn't want to pay rent on her own. We don't know.

 

As far as Ashley, I have no alternate explanations or excuses. 

 

I have to agree, I don't see Neil being abused and I don't see Sam as a narcissist; but different strokes folks.

 

I laughed when I read "if Neil doesn't want his face touched, how can he have sex," because I was thinking the same thing; maybe he's never had sex before.

 

I actually feel Ashley is more abusive than Sam because Ashley kept her feelings from David on purpose, she let the man think that he had a chance when in reality she wasn't attracted to him and was never going to be.  

 

I don't think Vanessa is ready to be married, because if the way she handles problems is to run away, that's not very adult at all and that's not a way to build a partnership with another person.  

[Madding crowd]

Neil also has his own apartment, a full time job, and family and friends who could help him. He does not have to stay with Sam and if the camera really showed him being abused, he could get a restraining order and a divorce. Can you tell me an example in this weeks episode which showed abuse?

[Soup333]

Narcissists are abusive. And the fact that they hide it so well is exactly why a lot of people don't believe it when others tell them that the person is abusive. They don't see that side of them. Having worked with a woman who was EXACTLY like Sam in almost every aspect, I'm seeing narcissism. It has already been mentioned, but that touching the face thing that she did directly after he said he didn't like it - that's one example of the shit people like her do. Doesn't look like a huge deal, but it translates into her not respecting his boundaries. 

 

I wouldn't be in her presence for any longer than I had to be.

 

ETA: The woman I worked for wasn't a gross slob like Sam. She at least had that going for her.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Soup333

[Gigi43]

 

And where is Doug??? 

 

Enjoying the break. Or, searching the house for a stash of fertility pills. It could go either way. I genuinely don't trust her. 

Edited February 11, 2016 by Gigi43

[CindyK]

I have to agree, I don't see Neil being abused and I don't see Sam as a narcissist; but different strokes folks.

I laughed when I read "if Neil doesn't want his face touched, how can he have sex," because I was thinking the same thing; maybe he's never had sex before.

I actually feel Ashley is more abusive than Sam because Ashley kept her feelings from David on purpose, she let the man think that he had a chance when in reality she wasn't attracted to him and was never going to be.

I don't think Vanessa is ready to be married, because if the way she handles problems is to run away, that's not very adult at all and that's not a way to build a partnership with another person.

Re: Vanessa: I hear you, but she came back and apologized and is not likely to repeat the error. Is there no room for error for these folks? I realize that there will always be outside stressors in life but it sounds like she also started a new job during this process which, when added with camera crews and a new husband who she just met, make for a lot of stress.

[Neurochick]

Re: Vanessa: I hear you, but she came back and apologized and is not likely to repeat the error. Is there no room for error for these folks? I realize that there will always be outside stressors in life but it sounds like she also started a new job during this process which, when added with camera crews and a new husband who she just met, make for a lot of stress.

 

Room for error?  Vanessa didn't leave room for error when it came to Tres.  He didn't care about her dog; he tried to talk to her and she stormed out, like a child.  If she wants to brand herself as some type of lifestyle guru, that's not the way to do it.

[MrsMommy]

David and Stacheley-I don't buy David's story either, and his story should've been easily verifiable if the woman he asked for drinks was indeed a mutual friend as stated. I laughed hard when Ashley started communicating very well (where has that been all season?) about how he disrespected the marriage and ruined everything. LOL! Let's say David really did text the woman with the intent of hooking up with her. What's his punishment from Ashley? Oh, he doesn't get sex or any kind of affection from her. Well, he wasn't getting that anyway. So she needs to be alone and won't talk to him? Well, she wasn't talking to him anyway. That has been the biggest barrier in this marriage. The fact she hasn't given him anything the entire time. We seen David prod, prod, and prod some more and all he gets is the dead fish every single time. I'm not excusing him for what he did, but that has to drain a guy and especially David who seemed so ready to fall in love with someone and spend the rest of his life with her. Also, how would her friend know what Ashley has invested in this marriage? All she gets is hearsay from Ashley who obviously has her own perception that doesn't match reality. The punishment ended up being David going home to Buffalo for a few days to give Ashley her space even though it's HIS HOUSE. Unbelievable! I agree that David really needs to grow a pair and quit trying to invest in someone who isn't worth it. The experts really screwed him, and I really hate that David texted this woman only because it takes the focus away from Ashley where it belongs. He had the upperhand and lost it. I'm not saying Ashley has to fall in love with David, but I'd expect her to be an active participant in the experiment and, at least, be respectful to the guy who is letting her live in his home. That doesn't mean affection or divulging intimate details. It just means communicating. Ashley gave David nothing until he screwed up. She didn't seem to care about the marriage at all until he got busted.

Maybe I'm wrong but that hiuse is not Davids. He lived/lives in an apartment, they are renting this place to appease the experts. I remember them looking at it for the first time and Ashley worried about bella breaking the antiques. House came furnished.

[CindyK]

Room for error? Vanessa didn't leave room for error when it came to Tres. He didn't care about her dog; he tried to talk to her and she stormed out, like a child. If she wants to brand herself as some type of lifestyle guru, that's not the way to do it.

Sure, she isn't a position to give any advice, but I don't think that event means that she cannot succeed in marriage. There will be mistakes. But there can also be reconciliation and a path forward. Also, who knows what things she has overlooked with Trey that haven't been shown.

[Vinyasa]

This season has been so dull.

I can not believe I have watched 12 episodes and nothing has really changed between these couples since the weddings! Oh wait, Sam and Neil have hugged (just remembered that)

 

This whole season could have been a two hour special.

[okerry]

Neil also has his own apartment, a full time job, and family and friends who could help him. He does not have to stay with Sam and if the camera really showed him being abused, he could get a restraining order and a divorce. Can you tell me an example in this weeks episode which showed abuse?

Abuse does not necessarily mean punching or beating or stabbing or strangling. When a person is in a close relationship with someone who generally treats them like shit - threatening to lock them out of their home, treating them like hired help, or grabbing them by the face when they just said they don't like that sort of thing - that is very cruel and abusive behaviour that has a terrible effect on someone over the long run.

 

And yes, some people fail to see the harm because narcissists can be very charming when they want to be and will draw you in and make you think they care and that YOU are the one at fault for being oversensitive or imagining things. Remember when Sam had Neil apologizing when she threw HIM out of the house? That's a narcissist and that's abusive. Living with someone like that can destroy a person emotionally, but the narcs nearly always get off scot-free because they have no conscience and simply charm their way out of it.

 

It's said that narcissism is the only disease for which everyone is treated, not the one who's actually got it. It's the narc's victims that end up on anti-depressant and anti-anxiety meds, not the narc. That's liable to be Neil in a few years. I hope he gets out before then.

Edited February 11, 2016 by okerry

[sleekandchic]

Did anyone notice that when David called Ashley from Buffalo and got her voicemail, the screen on his phone identified her name as "WIFEY" ? LOL. He put her into his contacts as WIFEY! Oh my God, give it up already!

LOL. David has a combo of Stockholm syndrome and Delusional DaveBoy syndrome. My WIFE!...MY MARRIAGE! He's put on his armor to go to war for a make-believe relationship. Dude!

I don't think we need to worry about Ashley's lack of compassion when it comes to nursing. If she actually pursues the new career, I'm betting she will choose an administrative nursing role, not hands-on patient care. People and their problems and emotions are just too messy for dear Ash.

It surprised me when Dave said he knew nothing about her brother. Ashley had used her brother as a selling-point in the Matchmaking episode. She said his cerebral palsy had inspired her to leave social work for nursing. I did wonder why the brother wasn't at her wedding though. Compare that fact to Neil's brother, also with CP, flying in from California to Georgia, to attend the Neil/Sam Wedding Circus of Loons. Yes, of course, I don't know Ashley's brother's situation, but not being willing to talk to Dave about the bro is strange, imo.

Re the Where in the World is Douglas Sandiego, now that Jamie is a jetsetting, hard-hitting, investigative interviewer? I'm thinking he's living the good life of calm and relief. Jamie is just...TOO much.

Edited February 11, 2016 by sleekandchic

[Evil Queen]

Narcissists are abusive. And the fact that they hide it so well is exactly why a lot of people don't believe it when others tell them that the person is abusive. They don't see that side of them. Having worked with a woman who was EXACTLY like Sam in almost every aspect, I'm seeing narcissism. It has already been mentioned, but that touching the face thing that she did directly after he said he didn't like it - that's one example of the shit people like her do. Doesn't look like a huge deal, but it translates into her not respecting his boundaries. 

 

I wouldn't be in her presence for any longer than I had to be.

 

ETA: The woman I worked for wasn't a gross slob like Sam. She at least had that going for her.

 

Exactly. It may not be physical abuse that goes on but it will be more so verbal from some one that is a narcissists. I grew up with a mom that was this way. You don't hear anything nice ever about yourself with these kind of people. There is not room for even the smallest mistakes on your end or you will hear it. As I got older I had not really thought of it more then my mom was a selfish mean person. I never did anything wrong. I was actually a good kid. I knew some that were not. They will try to keep you from ever leaving as well. Even the kids. I finally realized in my mid 20s that it was more then being selfish. Over the last year or so I was able to put a name to what she is. I have as little contact as I can with her and my sister (who is just like her). For me ridding those that are toxic to your well being out of your life is the best thing one can do. I learned that people like my dad are basically enablers for letting it go on and never doing a thing to step in. Its a miserable life to have to life with people like that or to watch anyone live that way. People like Sam will make sure to try to put on a show for others around them. A lot of the times they will talk crap about you to whoever will listen as you are so horrible and they just can't understand why you are not speaking to them or doing what you wanted because they are such "wonderful" people. Yet if you ever had to listen to one of these kinds of people you would realize they are full of it. They will rip away at your self esteem until you have very little or none left. If they want they will act all nice to you once in awhile, make you feel safe to step off those eggshells you are normally on and then BAM back to the verbal abuse all over again. If you go back and watch from the beginning you will see it. Constant putting him down. Tell him they have to move back to her place and why. That is when he started repeating what she was saying as reasons which was BS. Then kicking him out because he said something to her back and she had a tantrum like a 2 yr old over it. Which these kind of people love doing to make it seem like you are in the wrong. Then disrepecting him when he says he doesn't like his face touched and she was doing it right after. Sorry but one can still have sex and not want a face touched. It can just be how it is when not doing that. I can't stand if someone touches mine outside of that. If one does it usually is to mess with you and I'm not into that. Oh and if you listen to Sammie talk to Neil during their picnic it seems like she has been on that side of things. I think he sees what she is but as he said he didn't really want to call her a bully but if the shoe fits. Then how Neil was at the picnic and his friend saying to Sam that he seemed like something was wrong (or however he put it) and she just blew it off. I would hope his friend would say something to him aside from her and ask him what is going on. Look at her behavior on SM as well. It comes out there as well. 

[Madding crowd]

All Neil has to do is to return to his own apartment. He is not a helpless child, nor is he dependent on Sam financially or through children. You are talking about personal experiences which sound awful, but none of you know Sam or Neil . I understand there are different types of abusive, but unless Neil tells us he is abused and forced to stay with Sam, I don't believe it.

[Evil Queen]

Yet if this was the other way around and he had been acting the way Sam was to her would you still say the same thing? I think we would hear more outrage from those not saying its not abuse because he is a man doing it. Yet instead he should get some balls and be a man or whatever other comments some throw out there. The few times he tried to say things to her back she freaked out and acted like a child (walked away and threw him out). Remember they are bound to a contract too. They can't just up and walk away during this time because of that contract. If that was the case I would bet Ashley would have been out the door on day one. BTW, most people don't realize until its to late that this stuff is abusive. I didn't know it growing up or early on in adulthood. So its not always seen as that until its late into it all sadly. People that act that way will do the best they can to make sure you don't leave them. While I don't know them she has shown she is not a nice person at all on the show and SM when things are not going her way at all. This is the last I will say on this with this episode. 

Edited February 11, 2016 by Evil Queen

[autumnh]

I have not fully read the thread (I will now) but I was married to someone very much like Ashley.I was a widow VERY young (age 20) and he woo'ed me...but I think he believed he wanted to married until it was time to be married. I loved him with all I had but he was this brick wall....no matter what approach I took, or how I tried (we were married for 5 years) he just could never open up...he would deflect and never own up to anything.....he was never wrong and it was hard...really hard. It is hard to be in a relationship with someone you love but who doesn't even understand themselves enough to be able to even try to be be in a healthy relationship. I am 50 now..i've learned a lot.

[ketose]

I assume David put "Wifey" in his phone when he still had hope and just hasn't changed it to "Hideous She-beast" yet.

[autumnh]

Honestly? I would have looked for an outlet too..and I am a female. There is ONLY so much you can do. If someone doesn't want to be married/have a connection to you...that is tough. Yes, he is not perfect but come ON....it's like she doesn't even have a pulse. It is ALL his fault...she takes no ownership.

I love Neil! I am married to an engineer so I know the quirk all too well lol :) I think as uncomfortable as it can to watch sometimes.....they at least have something. I could be totally wrong though and that is ok.

[holly4755]

Sorry wrong thread.  I need to find where this belongs. 

Edited February 11, 2016 by holly4755

[Gem 10]

Evil queen, ha! I didn't even remember seeing SAMs dog. Besides Neil, now I feel sorry for the dog too. Anyhow, I loved the past seasons of this show, but am forcing myself to finish this season, hoping at least Neil and David decide to call it quits. I like Vanessa and hope she can work it out with Tres. These "experts" don't know squat. They are matching people who have things in common. Not working. My husband and I don't have much in common, but are married 50 years. It was Love at First Sight.