S03.E10: Celebrations

[Crazy Bird Lady]

I think Jenna is probably the reason that Tres' aunt and other relatives at their wedding were so very obviously relieved to see that he had been paired with a beautiful black woman. (That, combined with how they probably feel toward Tres' white mother who abandoned him.)

Edited February 3, 2016 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Primetimer]

It's the Fourth of July and the couples are hosting (forced) barbecues. Whose cookout failed hardest this week?

Read the story

[Gigi43]

If Vanessa's dog was actually sick at all, my armchair Vet diagnosis is she probably threw up or had... Different poop, probably from people at the party slipping her table food. I've been there. Not a dire situation. It doesn't matter though Vanessa wanted something to be mad at Tres for. Tres has impressed me. He's expressed multiple times frustration over Vanessa holding things in and not saying what's on her mind. When Vanessa left Tres then clearly laid out to her HIS issue with that and was very mature about getting past it.

I missed the very beginning. What did Sam say that upset Neil? I cringed when Sam was all "its great your friends are vulgar and uncensored like me!" First of all Sam is so into men being men but vulgarity is not "ladylike" and there is a time and a place for dirty humor etc. Second, Sam has to stop using "uncensored" like it's a bragging point because with her that's been an excuse to be outright hurtful/insulting with no regards for basic social skills and Neil doesn't strike me as a person who would have friends like that..

Edited February 3, 2016 by Gigi43

[Pepper Mostly]

Ashley's friends didn't show up to the bbq? It's mean, but I lol'd at that. I think she's so standoffish that she doesn't have any friends. And her message to David: I want you to act like we're married unless I don't want you to act like we're married. Yeah, clear as mud girl. Good looking cake though.

    Neil is looking so worn out. It's obvious that everyone in range is worried about tripping the wire that sets off the Sam powder keg. That's gotta be exhausting. Sam thinking Neil was quiet at the bbq because hes's an introvert....wow. He was obviously upset by her comments but Sam's too self absorbed to get it. Even Neil's friend pointed out that something was bothering him. How is it possible for Sam to be so clueless? The most shocking comment was when she said Neil being happy makes her happy. WTF???!!!! We haven't seen her do a single thing for him or do anything to make him happy.

    The aerial gym looks fun though...I gotta try that!

    Tres, take your woman out and party and dance! Have some fun with her. Sitting at home all the time is a stew pot for problems.

 

I agree with all of this. Why do Tres and Vanessa have to sit home and sing hymns? Go out dancing, enjoy some live music! go to a concert or a comedy club. there are lots of ways to go out and enjoy the nightlife without getting trashed every weekend.

 

Ashley is full of shit. David will never be good enough for her and whatever he does will be wrong. Why does she think he would set himself up for being cold shouldered by Ashley at the party, in front of his friends? She has done nothing to indicate that she would welcome him coming into the kitchen, touching her shoulder and asking if she needed anything. And I admit, I laughed out loud when David said none of her friends showed up. Can you imagine her asking them? "So, we're having a party for fourth of July. David will be there so it will probably be really uncomfortable and it will probably rain anyway, but come if you want".

And please--canned frosting? Ugh.

 

Sam cannot leave Neil alone, can she? She has a self destructive streak a mile wide. She has probably chased off every guy she's ever dated. I did like seeing the real joy on her face at the gym, and was pleasantly surprised at how patient and helpful she was with Neil there. Maybe if she could forget to front for five minutes we might get to see who Sam really is. Behind that boorish, vulgar exterior there could be a kind and caring person.

   

Once the party started, David did all the work while she stood around, and then she complained afterward that she didn't feel like part of a married couple.  You don't have to be a huge party planner to invite some friends and throw together a side dish or two! Furthermore, IMO if David HAD hung around, she would have responded with, "I couldn't even get to know his friends because he was always there, trying to take over.  I was just overwhelmed.  It would have been nice for him to give me some space."

 

THIS. And my god, he came in all happy, with flowers and a cupcake, and she acted like he was handing her a severed head.

 

(sorry not to attribute the quotes, something went wrong when I tried to post originally so I had to copy and paste!)

Edited February 3, 2016 by Pepper Mostly

[Racj82]

Let me get this straight - Ashley doesn't even invite any of her own friends over, then she isolates herself in other rooms while David is hosting the party all by himself including doing all the work like making food, and then it's HIS fault that she felt alone and not a part of things? She is blaming HIM for her own inadequacy. She is just so put out at him actually having friends and having a good time with them. Like he should be paying attention to no one but her all evening and not even invite any friends over. Does she even have any friends? She is just so freaking selfish!!! I am the introvert's introvert, but I know what to do when my husband and I throw a party. I mingle, mingle, mingle and don't set myself apart from my spouse all evening and then blame him for us not being like a team! Poor David having to grovel for something that's not even his fault!

And yes, Vanessa should stop watching stupid movies like "The Notebook". That little "pocket rat" (my husband's words) is HER pet, not HIS. In a marriage you have what's common to both of you, what's yours and what's his alone. That dog predates him and is not attached to him 24/7 like it is to her, so it's HER thing. Expecting him to act like it's a shared thing is way over the line especially only a few weeks into a a relationship. Then she walks out on him totally not caring how he might feel about it? How freaking immature, grow the F up, Vanessa and stop looking to find things wrong with the relationship! If she ends up ruining things it will be her own fault. Tres is not perfect and men do need to be trained but she needs to stop freaking out that every little thing is a sign of his lack of commitment.

As much as Sam revolts me I kind of hope she and Neil work out at this point. I like it that she's becoming more positive about him and the relationship. Plus she liked his friends. That's all I can think of with them right now.

I'm just going to point out that men don't need to be trained. We are not animals at a circus show.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

If Vanessa's dog was actually sick at all, my armchair Vet diagnosis is she probably threw up or had... Different poop, probably from people at the party slipping her table food. I've been there. Not a dire situation. It doesn't matter though Vanessa wanted something to be mad at Tres for. Tres has impressed me. He's expressed multiple times frustration over Vanessa holding things in and not saying what's on her mind. When Vanessa left Tres then clearly laid out to her HIS issue with that and was very mature about getting past it.

 

 

The thing about Tres not going to the vet was obviously about the fact that Vanessa had wanted to talk things over with Tres when she got back in the morning, and he left her hanging. The dog's health obviously was not what was really bothering her. Vanessa does have a tendency to avoid talking about what she's upset about until after she has calmed down and feels like she can avoid saying anything wrong or hurtful out of anger or frustration. Personally, I understand that.

 

But Tres said he would rather have her yell and curse and vent her anger at him than leave until she has calmed down. I do hope that's what she will do the next time they have a problem, instead of leaving, because leaving Tres (even to spend one night in her own apartment that she's still paying the rent on) is clearly a major 'trigger' for him.

 

This is starting to remind me of how Ryan was with Jaclyn. I hope I'm wrong...

[DocTerv]

Wonder what's the best way to clean up all the loathing that was SPEWING out of the TV every time Ashley appeared? It's all over my room.

[Neurochick]

I've been seeing a lot of your posts relate to African American men don't find some black women attractive and I completely see what you're saying cause it's sadly true sometimes. But as an African American female myself, you cannot catagorize all black men in the same boat. I highly doubt that the situation had anything to do with Jenna being white (Vanessa has said she dated white men so I don't see what the problem would be). It's just kind of offensive that you keep bringing this race thing up.

 

 

I never said that black men don't find black women attractive.  What I said is that there is a beauty standard in this country and the closer you are to it, the better your chances with men.  It's not offensive to bring race up because as much as people would like to think it doesn't matter, it does.   If black men are marrying "out" twice as much as black women and there are more women than men period, then I can see why Vanessa might feel insecure.  That was my point.  

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/12/interracial-marriage-who-is-marrying-out/   

[Empress1]

FWIW, I'm a black woman and I didn't think Vanessa's insecurity about Jenna had to do with Jenna's race; I think she would have been insecure no matter what race Jenna was. Jenna is attractive but Vanessa has never struck me as insecure about her looks (nor should she be, IMO). I think she felt insecure because Tres is closer to Jenna than he is Vanessa at this point. He's known her a lot longer, they know each other better than he and Vanessa do, he uses the word "love" related to her (I think he said he "love her to death"), and there's a closeness there that's had time to develop. Vanessa seems to want that instant connection because they're married, but they just met a month ago.

[ClareWalks]

Vanessa's assertion that men and women cannot be friends totally floored me. She has seriously NEVER had a straight male friend where there was no attraction on either side? My best friend in college was a dude. We were JUST friends, and not each other's physical type at all, so there was no attraction or "hooked up one night" about it. We were each other's wingman, in fact. I just cannot believe that a grown woman in 2016 believes that men and women cannot have platonic relationships. Her hanging all over Tres in front of the other girl was hilarious, too. You could tell Tres' lady friend was amused by it.

[moonxyz]

I see validity in both of these points of view. Sadly, There may not be a path for compromise here that will allow this couple to stay together.

 

Tres does seem to be trying - he just doesn't appear to have any empathy (or even tolerance) for Vanessa's insecurities.

Out of all 3 guys, Tres has the least compassion/understanding -- and probably the most insecure wife. He took no responsibility for that emphatic public denouncement of the idea when one of their friends said they were in love -or for blatantly cozying up to Jenna- [or for not going with Vanessa to take her dog to the vet-which was a side issue anyway] -- or for blowing all of that off and just leaving for the gym.

 

They finally talked it over, and Tres explained that it really hurt him to have his wife leave him (because other people in his life have abandoned him). Vanessa seemed stricken by that. Vanessa apologized, repeatedly. She acknowledged his pain and realized that she had been wrong to leave (even though it was just to sleep in her own apartment that one night)- and she was deeply touched by his explanation.

...But where was Vanessa's apology??

 

Moonxyz, your points are valid, but you left one out:

(7) When your newly-wed husband goes out without you and gets passed-out drunk, then gets annoyed at his wife because she didn't think that was cool -- it's a definite red flag.

 

I wish i could thank you 100 times. Tres never thinks anything he does is a problem. I don't think he's dumb, he's just playing dum. He's probably used to getting his own way with women and in his mind believes that Vanessa should just put up with this shit and acts like she is the problem

 

1) He knows getting passed out drunk is wrong but made it seem like Vanessa was the uptight bitch

 

2) He introduced his female friend/likely fuck buddy to his wife and didn't think it was a problem

 

3) He dismissed his relationship with his wife in front of her friends and didn't think it was a big deal.

 

He is sneaky but I've got his number. Unfortenately, Vanessa is probably going to tolerate his BS in the end because he's going to convince her that it's OK to be married and eat your cake two. Hidden in plain sight. 

Edited February 5, 2016 by aethera

[cardigirl]

Vanessa's assertion that men and women cannot be friends totally floored me. She has seriously NEVER had a straight male friend where there was no attraction on either side? My best friend in college was a dude. We were JUST friends, and not each other's physical type at all, so there was no attraction or "hooked up one night" about it. We were each other's wingman, in fact. I just cannot believe that a grown woman in 2016 believes that men and women cannot have platonic relationships. Her hanging all over Tres in front of the other girl was hilarious, too. You could tell Tres' lady friend was amused by it.

My experience with men and women being just friends is that usually one member of the twosome would be down with a physical relationship.  Women like to think that they can be friends with men, but (and I'm only basing this on my experience) men will not be friends with women unless they are gay, or are hoping for some kind of romantic involvement eventually.  

 

And friendship is usually the start of a great relationship anyway.  

[red12]

Even though I wish Vanessa seriously grow up and stop reading all those romance novels and watching all those stupid rom coms, I do get her. I don’t think the experts are all that intelligent, maybe they should have had a black expert there too. 

 

Someone on this board said that black women have the same dating opportunities that black men have, I disagree.  Why?  Well, there is a beauty standard in this country, slim, large breasts, straight hair.  The closer you are to that ideal, the better your chances are with men. Like how David gushes over how beautiful Ashley is, physically she has a lot of the stuff considered beautiful, long straight hair, a slim figure.  There is a reason so many black women straighten their hair and wear waves, it’s considered more acceptable.  I even remember some OK Cupid study which showed that black women, even though they emailed men first, got the least responses from men, and I have to say with online dating, I’ll read the types of women, men want to be with and they’ll say every race/nationality, BUT a black woman. 

 

So on top of this, here comes Tres’ friend.  I couldn’t tell is she was white or mixed or what, but she is closer to the standard of beauty that is considered acceptable in the US.  Vanessa felt threatened because she wonders if Tres would leave her for someone who looked like his friend. 

 

I watch the show #black love that comes on after this one on FYI.  I find it interesting that there is a dark skinned black woman on the show who has half her head shaved and the other half she wears natural.  She is in a relationship with a white man who is NOT from the US.  That doesn’t surprise me, I have heard of many black women who have found love with non-American men who seem not to have an issue with darker skin and natural hair.  (personally, I’ve found that to be true as well.)

 

 

 

I understand your point about Vanessa's anxiety regarding Jenna. But, why would he marry her if he really wanted Jenna? That is the catch when wives get pissed about their husband's female friends. He could have been with her if he wanted, but he is with you. If you married a decent guy, he's not trying to have you make friends with his side chick. If you think you married a d**k, there is a remedy for that.

 

The only scenario I can see in which Tres and Jenna is a thing is Tres as Jenna's emergency man. In this scenario, she doesn't want him as a first choice, but if desperate with one egg left, she would call Tres off the bench and give it a chance. I think Tres knows he had/has no chance with Jenna in a romantic relationship so, he settled for a close friendship. As long as she never initiates, it will never happened.

 

I do think Jenna was a little jealous on a basic "I thought I had you on lock" primal level. But, I think it was mostly the stink eye she got from Vanessa along with Vanessa's unfriendly behavior that stank up that party. Women like Vanessa need to learn that the best thing to do in this situation is to be the best version of your normal self and treat your "Jenna" like any other guest in your home. Hell, even offer to have lunch or something with her. Then, if Jenna has a negative reaction, she's the petty one and you come off smelling like a rose.

[henrysmom]

Just finished watching the episode and I have to say what struck me most is how all three women seem to expect the men to conform to what <they> need.  None of them seems all that interested in what their husbands might need or want from a marriage.

 

Ashley seems to want somebody who will always be there to hold her hand and get her through life.  Sam wants somebody who sees how awesome she is.  And Vanessa seems to want someone who will sense her every mood and read her mind, and respond accordingly.  None of them seems to think they need to give a little to get something in return.

 

[ClareWalks]

My experience with men and women being just friends is that usually one member of the twosome would be down with a physical relationship.  Women like to think that they can be friends with men, but (and I'm only basing this on my experience) men will not be friends with women unless they are gay, or are hoping for some kind of romantic involvement eventually.  

 

And friendship is usually the start of a great relationship anyway.  

 

So you and Vanessa believe that you can make a statement about ALL male/female friendships based on your personal experience?

[moonxyz]

Also Jenna is one of this best friends but not at his wedding? I bet she was "busy" on that day. How freaking convenient. 

[cardigirl]

So you and Vanessa believe that you can make a statement about ALL male/female friendships based on your personal experience?

 

Yes.  ;) 

 

I'm saying also, that I understand her concern.  Truly, I've never seen a relationship between a straight man and a straight woman that did not have some sexual overtones somewhere.  And, as was said above, Tres has known his 'friend' much longer than Vanessa, that would make me a bit, well, uncomfortable. 

 

I'm curious, ClareWalks, are you still friends with your friend from college?  

Edited February 3, 2016 by cardigirl

[floridaskixx]

FWIW, I'm a black woman and I didn't think Vanessa's insecurity about Jenna had to do with Jenna's race; I think she would have been insecure no matter what race Jenna was. Jenna is attractive but Vanessa has never struck me as insecure about her looks (nor should she be, IMO). I think she felt insecure because Tres is closer to Jenna than he is Vanessa at this point. He's known her a lot longer, they know each other better than he and Vanessa do, he uses the word "love" related to her (I think he said he "love her to death"), and there's a closeness there that's had time to develop. Vanessa seems to want that instant connection because they're married, but they just met a month ago.

Exactly!! Tres and Jenna have known each other for a long time. That's why she acted like that. I legit don't think it had anything to do with race

[Empress1]

Vanessa's assertion that men and women cannot be friends totally floored me. She has seriously NEVER had a straight male friend where there was no attraction on either side? My best friend in college was a dude. We were JUST friends, and not each other's physical type at all, so there was no attraction or "hooked up one night" about it. We were each other's wingman, in fact. I just cannot believe that a grown woman in 2016 believes that men and women cannot have platonic relationships. Her hanging all over Tres in front of the other girl was hilarious, too. You could tell Tres' lady friend was amused by it.

Well, in fairness, if she has that belief, it stands to reason that she wouldn't be open to having male friends. And she's definitely not the only person to say that. My best friend used to say something similar, but that's mainly because she herself has a tendency to fall for her friends which often messes up the relationships. She's married now and has a few male friends, but I think her female friends are closer.

 

Weirdly, for me I had male friends when I was in school. One of my closest friends in business school was a guy. One of my best friends from K-12 was a guy. But as I've gotten older, most of my friends are women and gay men. I think it's because I've worked primarily in female-dominated fields and the majority of my hobbies are female-dominated. I like most of my straight female friends' husbands (and my gay female friend's wife) but that's not quite the same thing. And I HAVE had male friendships get messed up by acting on physical impulses, which isn't a great feeling.

 

Vanessa may also have issues with men due to her father leaving - after all, her father didn't maintain a platonic relationship with her either. 

[ClareWalks]

Yes.  ;) 

 

I'm saying also, that I understand her concern.  Truly, I've never seen a relationship between a straight man and a straight woman that did not have some sexual overtones somewhere.  And, as was said above, Tres has known his 'friend' much longer than Vanessa, that would make me a bit, well, uncomfortable. 

 

I'm curious, ClareWalks, are you still friends with your friend from college?  

 

Yep, we live far apart so we rarely get to hang out, but we are each married with a kid and still have no interest in banging each other, haha. In college, I liked skinny or lean-athletic men, which didn't describe my friend; and he liked petite Asian women, which didn't describe me. We helped each other find hotties. It happens, it can work, I feel bad for people who cannot see that!

[Jade Foxx]

 

I'm saying also, that I understand her concern.  Truly, I've never seen a relationship between a straight man and a straight woman that did not have some sexual overtones somewhere.

 

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle...a man might be attracted to a woman (or vice versa) - but when the woman sets the tone and says "this is a platonic friendship only," MOST men (in my experience) will either (a) accept being friend-zoned and continue with the friendship, or (b) eventually peace out because the romantic/sexual element isn't going to happen.

 

In some cases, there is © when the friend-zoned individual hangs around hoping that he/she can slip through the cracks when opportunity arises...

 

At any rate, I think Tres is a good dude and Vanessa is going to fuck it up. 

[Waterlilly]

Vanessa should know that you never let them see you sweat or show any sign of weakness, you smile, show them around, introduce them to your friends and sister and tell them how happy you are to meet them. Then after they leave and along with your husbands dumb joke you just give him "the look" .

I love Neil but, nothing like sitting at a picnic eating your food alone while your loud abrasive wife and friend talk about you.

I just have to say that Ashley has got the best resting bitch face ever! That's it I have no more compliments for her.

Edited because of fat fingers today

Edited February 3, 2016 by Waterlilly

[floridaskixx]

I've had guy friends when I was younger, but as I grew up that went away. I know it seems hard to believe but there are some instances when it's hard to find guys that don't want to sleep with you. I'm 20 now and I haven't had a guy friend bc they always want something more. BUT that may not always be the case for every other girl.

[BunnySlippers]

In one of his talking heads that discussed the party, David said it sucked that none of Ashley's friends "showed." I didn't believe that at all, unless she invited only one or two people. I really think she didn't bother because what's the point plus she didn't want to explain to friends how wrong the marriage is for her. Or, she really has no friends locally.

David DOES play with the truth at times. In his TH, he said more people than expected showed up on his side because people came from out of town, and he couldn't say no to them. I don't believe that. I think he barreled ahead to invite whomever he wanted, without regard for Ashley's wish for a smaller party.

His "my wife" this and "my wife" that also gets on my last nerve.

 

That sounded strange to me, too. If he hadn't invited them, then how did they know that he was having a party? Especially if they came out of town.

 

Vanessa's assertion that men and women cannot be friends totally floored me. She has seriously NEVER had a straight male friend where there was no attraction on either side? My best friend in college was a dude. We were JUST friends, and not each other's physical type at all, so there was no attraction or "hooked up one night" about it. We were each other's wingman, in fact. I just cannot believe that a grown woman in 2016 believes that men and women cannot have platonic relationships. Her hanging all over Tres in front of the other girl was hilarious, too. You could tell Tres' lady friend was amused by it.

 

I had guy friends in high school and college, and was friends with one of them after college, too. We both got married to different people, and got together as couples a few times, until I moved to another continent. I believe it's totally possible to be friends with the opposite sex.

 

Vanessa was really aggressive towards Jenna at the party, and Jenna could absolutely feel it. Right off the bat, after Tres had introduced them, Vanessa walked away, and Jenna just stood there awkwardly, glancing at Vanessa's retreating back, wondering what the hell had just happened.

Edited February 3, 2016 by BunnySlippers

[cardigirl]

Yep, we live far apart so we rarely get to hang out, but we are each married with a kid and still have no interest in banging each other, haha. In college, I liked skinny or lean-athletic men, which didn't describe my friend; and he liked petite Asian women, which didn't describe me. We helped each other find hotties. It happens, it can work, I feel bad for people who cannot see that!

Oh no need to feel bad for me, I just have not seen it in action.  I do wonder why you and your friend were friends, were you in athletics together, or music, or some sort of hobby interest?  Why did you like each other?  I had all sorts of friends in college, and the guy friends I had were into hiking and camping and that sort of thing, which is why and when we hung out, but we didn't call each other and talk about our dates or anything.  It was a big group, out of which some couples emerged. So I would guess that they were not my BEST friends. 

 

I have lots of younger women friends who look for a "work husband" at every job they have, and then they pal around with them, which is kind of annoying actually, and indicates to me that they are not all that happy with their marriages, but your mileage may vary (and apparently does).  

 

I do agree that Vanessa should have acted a bit more cool about it, though, especially in front of this "friend."  

[Palomar]

 

Ashley says "I'm trying to make this work, I'm wearing my ring and I'm here everyday" but she hardly speaks to the guy.

 

She's saying this so she can point out she is fulfilling her 6 week contract when she gets criticized for not trying. I truly think that David was stunned about her comments and thought she was having a good time talking to his friends while he cooked.  Has she never hosted a party before? Why didn't she check on him to see if he needed any help since he was doing all the cooking?  If he would have followed her around and hung around her the whole party she would have been crying about needing her space.  Talk about mixed messages.  Really, David can't win here.

[Snarklepuss]

I sometimes think Vanessa might have been better matched to someone who is not as conventionally attractive and charming as Tres.  That guy is always going to have women in Atlanta swarming around him and you have to be very secure to deal with that (which clearly Vanessa is not, judging by he

 

Oh, man, do I agree and do I relate to that!  Mr. Snarklepuss is very charming and handsome and the women have always been falling all over themselves for him.  I had to have a quick course in a) trust and b) getting over insecurity in order to stay with him or it would have never worked.  It always amazes me how Mr. Snarkle is so oblivious to women liking him, which I once took for BS but learned was genuine.  I don't think Tres is like that, though.  I think he knows he's attractive and loves the attention of the ladies even if he didn't act on it, and that would be enough to get an insecure woman like Vanessa going.

 

I would be lying if I said I never had similar insecure feelings as Vanessa when meeting female platonic friends of Mr. Snarkle, but I at least had the sense not to react like such a child about it in front of them and him.  I did get over all of that eventually, but thanks to not acting like a big fat baby, I didn't push him away.  I know men hate it when women get all insecure like that and thankfully I listened to my mother about not ruining things with him by acting that way.  She used  to tell me to be confident and he would find that more attractive than any of the other women beating down his door.  She used to say, "If you play your cards right, things will work out, that guy is bonkers for you!"  She was right and I'm glad I listened.  Too bad Vanessa doesn't have someone like that putting those thoughts in her ear.  Where are the so-called "experts" to do that when she needs them?

  

I think you have hit the nail on the head.  It is not so much Ashley finds David physically unattractive.  Truthfully, many women will give a guy a shot if he has a good personality.  It is more too the point of  she thinks she is too good for him or out of his league.  I remember how proud he was of having her as a wife and could not wait to show her off.  Ashley on the other hand wants to keep David far away from her friends because she is embarrassed about having him on her arm.

 

I agree with you but I think she thinks she's out of his league because ironically, she probably sees him as a socially inept dweeb.  She sees him as this huge ill-mannered, sloppy sheepdog who would get his icky slobber all over her, so in that sense she will find him unattractive physically too. I find it ironic that she would cop that position with him because I think she has less class and social finesse than he does.  But just add that to the list of things I can't stand about her.  Being a snooty-toot when she herself is no great shakes just showcases her lack of self awareness (and never mind the projection)!

[BBDi]

Sounds like Tres was raised by women and among women (2 sisters). He may be the type of guy who is naturally comfortable with women. Someone like that probably tends to have a lot of female friends. That is something Vanessa will just have to get used to if they stay married.

And in theory, it should be a good thing because he should have a good understanding of women.

Also if he was the only boy in that family he might be a bit spoiled without realizing it.

[Nancybeth]

I kind of wish Vanessa had been matched with David. She wants a "husband." He wants a "wife." Neither of them seemed to think much beyond being married and doing all those married things that married couples do together, like share responsibility for pets and host parties.

I think if Tres and Vanessa had met any other way and started dating, he would have dumped her in a few weeks for being too clingy and needy.

By the way, I saw David and Ashley's house listed on Atlanta Air BnB! I recognized the cash register in the kitchen.

[Snarklepuss]

I've had guy friends when I was younger, but as I grew up that went away. I know it seems hard to believe but there are some instances when it's hard to find guys that don't want to sleep with you. I'm 20 now and I haven't had a guy friend bc they always want something more. BUT that may not always be the case for every other girl.

 

Well, I always had men wanting "more" from me but ironically I have always had more male platonic friends than female.  If they were raised right hand have any ounce of class and respect for a woman they can manage to be your platonic friend even if they do find you attractive and it doesn't mean the guy's a dud or anything just a decent person.  I am trying to believe that Tres is one of those men.  I feel sorry for Vanessa that she automatically assumes the worst of men and of Tres.  That's actually an insult to men in general, IMHO.  I understand it given her history, but I think she needs to give the guy a chance.

[ClareWalks]

Oh no need to feel bad for me, I just have not seen it in action.  I do wonder why you and your friend were friends, were you in athletics together, or music, or some sort of hobby interest?  Why did you like each other?  I had all sorts of friends in college, and the guy friends I had were into hiking and camping and that sort of thing, which is why and when we hung out, but we didn't call each other and talk about our dates or anything.  It was a big group, out of which some couples emerged. So I would guess that they were not my BEST friends. 

 

I have lots of younger women friends who look for a "work husband" at every job they have, and then they pal around with them, which is kind of annoying actually, and indicates to me that they are not all that happy with their marriages, but your mileage may vary (and apparently does).  

 

I do agree that Vanessa should have acted a bit more cool about it, though, especially in front of this "friend."  

 

We became friends because he was dating my roommate (petite Asian, natch) freshman year and was just always around. After they broke up I stayed friends with both of them. We would sometimes hang out in small groups but we could also do one on one. Can't really say we had oodles in common, we just got along and ate a lot of Taco Bell, LOL.

[Jade Foxx]

 

Vanessa should know that you never let them see you sweat or show any sign of weakness, you smile, show them around, introduce them to your friends and sister and tell them how happy you are to meet them. Then after they leave and along with your husbands dumb joke you just give him "the look" .

 

 

I would be lying if I said I never had similar insecure feelings as Vanessa when meeting female platonic friends of Mr. Snarkle, but I at least had the sense not to react like such a child about it in front of them and him.  I did get over all of that eventually, but thanks to not acting like a big fat baby, I didn't push him away.  I know men hate it when women get all insecure like that and thankfully I listened to my mother about not ruining things with him by acting that way.  She used  to tell me to be confident and he would find that more attractive than any of the other women beating down his door.

 

ALWAYS KEEP YOUR GAME FACE ON.

 

All of this is so true. Though at 26, I had my fair share of insecurities (which I think is pretty normal), and it takes years of experience, and hard earned self-confidence to handle that situation like a true boss. 

 

After witnessing Vanessa's fake smile, snarky/chirpy tone of voice, and general passive-aggressive behavior with Jenna - I realized she's still a grasshopper. (who giggles too much)

[okerry]

Vanessa wasn't really upset about Tres not caring about the pup, no matter what she said. Vanessa was sick with envy over Jenna. Vanessa might understand intellectually that Tres has had gfs galore. But what she detested was that Tres invited Jenna to the party and maintains his friendship with her.

Dear Tres: If you want to make your wife feel like absolute shit, do exactly what you did: Bring over your cute female friend and emphasize to your wife how this cute female is your BFF and you're so happy she's still in your life even though you're, you know, married and stuff now. You score 100% on the "Make your wife feel like garbage" exercise.

 

Things like that are a real asshole move and unfortunately, men just love to do that. They're poking their wives with a stick to see what it will take to make her start bitching, so he can then start whining that he's a victim of his wife's "controlling" nature and she won't let him do anything sob sob boo-hoo.

 

Sorry, Tres, but you're a real jerk for throwing your female BFF in your wife's face like that. I don't blame Vanessa one bit for walking out. I just wish she'd done it right in the middle of the party and blown Tres a kiss as she walked out the door, telling him to call her when he's done hanging out with Jenna. Which will be never.

[seasick]

I was not surprised to see that Sam had no other friends at the BBQ.   I believe Sam doesn't have 'friendships"..she only tolerates followers or toadies.  .No give and take, mutual respects and sharing interests with Sam.  You are either all about Sam or not at all.   She's the superior one.

 

When you say "I don't want to call her a bully" --well that says it there, Neil.   I see "joy" in Sam at the silks or with Jewish culture for no other reason than it's all about Sam (and of course is co-signed by the spiritual guy) . ( I don't see real joy but rather smug, superior self-satisfaction.)    

 

Sam wants a manly-man, someone who is more opinionated, more assertive. But yet she's settling for Neil.?   Hmmm.  Sam is now talking of their future so that he will not ask for divorce and embarrass her.  Sam has to come out on top.  She's always right.

 

Neil is completely shut down and was obviously nervous at the BBQ.  Yes Neil, she will continue to belittle and ridicule you.  I'm sure you expected it, which is why you look as though you want to disappear.,( and actually, he is.)    I would like to take him away to be de-programmed like you do for a cult member.  He is completely intimidated by her.   He looks like hell. He's become the  'walking dead'.  

 

If the experts have any sense or ethics at all they would seriously pull him out of there and insist he get some heavy counseling.  This is one of the sickest relationships I've seen.  It's really hard to watch 

[rab01]

I find it very strange to be a little on Ashley's side for once. I don't actually think that David did anything wrong so she shouldn't have "blamed" him about it but ... Whether she was scared to invite her friends, has no friends, or no friends were willing to come on camera, she was still at a 4th of July party where she knew nobody. Everyone there was there for David. Even if she planned it that way, it still hurts to then go through a party like that, a party where everyone is else is bonded and you're the outsider.

Part of the host's duties is to introduce people that don't know each other. My mom taught me that it's not just a "hi, this is Paul; Paul meet John" The introduction should also include at least one fact about each other that might be of mutual interest or orient them in relation to each other. Since everyone at this party knew each other except Ashley, she's actually the person who has to be introduced around. I'm sure David did plenty of introducing her around but it's not crazy that she would look to him for something a bit more than she got.

Of course David's not to blame because he can't see what's going on in her head and can't tell that she's not having a good time and getting integrated with his friends but she's not a bitch for ending up unhappy after the party. She's not even a bitch for waiting until afterwards to tell him about it. Talking to him during the party might have felt like she was "intruding" on him or just been socially awkward. If they were actually married or even dating, an after-party conversation could just be helpful towards how to handle their next party together rather than about blame.

[qtpye]

I would be lying if I said I never had similar insecure feelings as Vanessa when meeting female platonic friends of Mr. Snarkle, but I at least had the sense not to react like such a child about it in front of them and him.  I did get over all of that eventually, but thanks to not acting like a big fat baby, I didn't push him away.  I know men hate it when women get all insecure like that and thankfully I listened to my mother about not ruining things with him by acting that way.  She used  to tell me to be confident and he would find that more attractive than any of the other women beating down his door.  She used to say, "If you play your cards right, things will work out, that guy is bonkers for you!"  She was right and I'm glad I listened.  Too bad Vanessa doesn't have someone like that putting those thoughts in her ear.  Where are the so-called "experts" to do that when she needs them?

 

 

I totally understand where you are coming from.  My husband has ladies falling for him all the time.  Yet, I never lose a second of sleep, because at the end of the day, I am secure that he loves me and would never cheat on me.

 

He does have one female friend, but if he wanted to marry her,  he would have done it a long time ago, assuming she felt the same way.  He knew her way before he knew me.

 

There are women who claim that all men cheat if given the opportunity.  These women just do not want to acknowledge they have very poor taste in men and their men have sold them a bill of goods.  Most men who love their wives and respect women do not cheat.  Men are not mindless animals controlled by the almighty penis.

 

I do think Tres knew Vanessa would feel insecure over Jenna and was enjoying it a tiny bit.  That being said, Vanessa if you acted like a confident secure woman instead of a clingy mess. there would be nothing to talk about.  Heck, you might have missed the opportunity to make another female friend.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

Speaking for myself -- yes, it is possible for a straight man and a straight woman to be 'just' good friends. I have a couple of those.

But there are also good 'friends' [including some who have always known us as a married couple] that have tried hitting on me -just to see if it would get them anywhere, I guess. (It didn't. My hubby and I are monogamous.) 

 

I also think most people have opposite-sex friends who have been lovers in the past - and there is usually an ember of attraction that might flame up at some point. (That's the kind of friend I think Jenna is to Tres.)

Edited February 3, 2016 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Cherrio]

I still remember the look on Ashley's face when she saw David at the wedding.   That would of been me too. On a purely physical level he is a huge doughy turn off.

        Obviously looks are not everything, but every time I see him, hear him talk, his expressions .....he skeeves me out.    He has a way of saying things that creep me out.   His seemingly blind or desperate optimism is ridiculous.   Your bride has shown zero interest in you, what don't you get?    He seems to think that one day she is going to wake up in love and attracted to him which will never happen.    There is something not right about him, besides the mama's boy, missing his dad routine.

     It would probably do him good to work on himself before he expects to have any kind of relationship.  He couldn't accept or digest with any insight at all that she is not attracted to him. Instead he made it all about telling the therapist.

            If it is true about him asking another woman out for drinks, then I can add acting like a spoiled 2 year old as another character flaw.

[okerry]

I've been seeing a lot of your posts relate to African American men don't find some black women attractive and I completely see what you're saying cause it's sadly true sometimes. But as an African American female myself, you cannot catagorize all black men in the same boat. I highly doubt that the situation had anything to do with Jenna being white (Vanessa has said she dated white men so I don't see what the problem would be). It's just kind of offensive that you keep bringing this race thing up.

Well, for the record I find such posts very interesting and even educational. I'm white, and though I was aware of some of this after working for some years in a large office with many black women, I think it can be a good thing for more people of other races to be aware of what some other races go through. I watch BlackLove, too, mostly because I like relationship shows anyway but partly for the "educational" aspect. FWIW, I don't think any of the posts here have been racist at all. They were just discussing some of the realities of dating.

Edited February 3, 2016 by okerry

[Wheels08]

I was not surprised to see that Sam had no other friends at the BBQ.   I believe Sam doesn't have 'friendships"..she only tolerates followers or toadies.  .No give and take, mutual respects and sharing interests with Sam.  You are either all about Sam or not at all.   She's the superior one.

 

When you say "I don't want to call her a bully" --well that says it there, Neil.   I see "joy" in Sam at the silks or with Jewish culture for no other reason than it's all about Sam (and of course is co-signed by the spiritual guy) . ( I don't see real joy but rather smug, superior self-satisfaction.)    

 

Sam wants a manly-man, someone who is more opinionated, more assertive. But yet she's settling for Neil.?   Hmmm.  Sam is now talking of their future so that he will not ask for divorce and embarrass her.  Sam has to come out on top.  She's always right.

 

Neil is completely shut down and was obviously nervous at the BBQ.  Yes Neil, she will continue to belittle and ridicule you.  I'm sure you expected it, which is why you look as though you want to disappear.,( and actually, he is.)    I would like to take him away to be de-programmed like you do for a cult member.  He is completely intimidated by her.   He looks like hell. He's become the  'walking dead'.  

 

If the experts have any sense or ethics at all they would seriously pull him out of there and insist he get some heavy counseling.  This is one of the sickest relationships I've seen.  It's really hard to watch

I agree with all of this.

I don't buy a word out of Sam's mouth, and when she said that all she cared about was his happiness I was like oh please.

They honestly give me anxiety watching them. The only reason I'm still watching is that I really like Neil and I want to see what he does in the end. Last night when I was watching I swear I could feel how uncomfortable Neil was at the park.

That man is on edge.

When she says I need a man to put me in my place, all I can think is that she wants him to be reasponsible for her behavior. Neil isn't her parents, the only one responsible for her behavior is Sam.

[Gigi43]

Also Jenna is one of this best friends but not at his wedding? I bet she was "busy" on that day. How freaking convenient.

In fairness this wasn't the kind of Wedding where Save the Dates are out months and months in advance (I just got one for a September wedding!) with official invites a few months out. Did they ever say how much notice they get before the wedding? She could have legitimately been busy, and, since this is ultimately a reality show wedding she may not have prioritized it the same way as if Tres was marrying someone he had actually met prior to the day. A lot of these people seem to have otherwise close family/friends unable to attend because of short notice. Tres may not have stressed to make it a high priority to be there. Did she live in town or did she happen to be around for the holiday weekend? If I had a wedding to go to for a friend who was having a "real" marriage and a closer friend who was doing MAFS I think I would go to the other wedding but find another time to support the better friend somehow (if I could get passed not wanting to be on TV!) especially if I knew about the non-MASF first. June weekends are popular wedding/shower weekends. Edited February 3, 2016 by Gigi43

[Snarklepuss]

All you said was the word trained. How exactly am I supposed to know exactly what you mean? Just like what Tres is dealing with right now.

I know what it usually means when women say that. I don't think it's out of bounds that I thought that's what you meant.

 

Fair enough but perhaps next time it would just be nicer to give someone the benefit of the doubt and ask them what they mean rather than jumping to conclusions.  Just like Vanessa should be doing with Tres and is not.  I thought he was clearly joking but it was a dumb joke like he should have known better than to make it sound that way.  I'm not going to admit I should have known better because I would never have anticipated someone thinking I meant that so how could I be expected to avoid it?  Should I always think people are going to think the worst - It didn't even enter my mind that they could think that!

Edited February 3, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Drogo]

Snipe at the show, not at each other.  We're going to keep it classy, yes? 

[ElectricCityy]

Ashley doesn't want David touching her then gets mad when he's not acting like a couple at the BBQ. Haha, what a manipulative nutcase she is. David probably went to the bar and got some chick's number after that exchange. 

Edited February 3, 2016 by ElectricCityy

[Vinyasa]

Ashley doesn't want David touching her then gets mad when he's not acting like a couple at the BBQ.

 

I don't understand why Ashley is getting all lathered up about the July 4th party and David's actions. She tells Dr. C that they don't even act like a newly dating couple so WHEN have they ever acted like any type of couple?

[kira28]

Ashley is a huge spoiled brat. She is also a stealth bitch. She acts all sweet to David's friends, probably to the experts and is a total straight up bitch to David. So you are not attracted to him, we get it. But just fucking smile and attempt to be pleasant and polite for six weeks. Its like she has no class, no idea how to behave in social situations. Sad that David had a great time with his friends and that boring wet blanket whined and bitched about how he didn't pay attention to her and she was all alone. And in the scene where he brings her a cupcake and flowers I swear I saw her in another episode wearing that top and those shoes with her hair all curly like that.

 

Sam is a fake. Hate hate hate her. Neil just seems like a beaten dog that still tries to get affection from his master. I think Sam wants to extend her 15 minutes so she will pretend (or her and neil made a deal) that they have decided to work on their marriage. No way in hell is she into him. Interesting that she has no friends and her roommate even acts like she has to walk on eggshells around her.

 

While I do believe men and women can be just friends, as a woman I have to say that every one of my friendships with men ended because they wanted more or at least wanted to sleep with me. I have a guy I used to consider one of my best friends. We have been friends for 20 years. We met because I dated his best friend who died in a car accident while we were dating and the two of us bonded over the loss.  I see him as a big brother sort of friend. We go out  to eat, we go shopping together, we work out together etc. I'm not really attracted to him even though he's probably Ashley's type lol. He has a fiancé who he lives with and though he's never hit on me while I was married or when I'm dating someone, recently when I became single he proposed (several times) that we hook up once behind his fiancé's back  (who I'm friendly with) because he has fantasies about me. Made me really uncomfortable!!!  We are still friends but I don't talk to him much because of this. So I think in most cases there is some sexual interest there on one or the other's part. I thought the way Vanessa treated Jen was horrible though. My god, stop hanging all over Tres then rudely usher Jen outside . Jealous and insecure much? you have only known the guy three weeks. I thought it was nice of him to introduce them. If he was hiding the fact that he is friends with another woman I'd consider it a red flag but he clearly wanted them to meet. I didn't think it was a big deal that tres didn't go to the vet with Vanessa.

these women need to get over themselves!

[Evil Queen]

I agree with all of this.

I don't buy a word out of Sam's mouth, and when she said that all she cared about was his happiness I was like oh please.

They honestly give me anxiety watching them. The only reason I'm still watching is that I really like Neil and I want to see what he does in the end. Last night when I was watching I swear I could feel how uncomfortable Neil was at the park.

That man is on edge.

When she says I need a man to put me in my place, all I can think is that she wants him to be reasponsible for her behavior. Neil isn't her parents, the only one responsible for her behavior is Sam.

 

For me watching her is hard in so many ways. I have experienced her type of behavior by my mom. I didn't see it for what it was until I was an adult in my mid 20s. Those kind of people only like have around anyone that will enable their behavior too. If you don't they want nothing to do with you and act like a toddler throwing a fit. They hate anyone that stands up against them. So I can't see Sam ever wanting "a man that puts her in her place" as she claims. He would be kicked out the second he spoke up to her and tried to do that or pushed back in any way shape or form. Look at what happened when Neil did say something back. He got told to get out and she had a fit. Then he had to say he was sorry when he shouldn't have said it at all. These kind of people think of only themselves and never anyone else. She will always be abusive as she has been. Its a pattern. Play nice once in awhile then BAM back to telling you how horrible you are or all the things that are wrong with you that they can find. Even if its some made up stupid thing. People like this are VERY toxic to anyone that stays around them. I can imagine her roommate, Sammie, enables her which is why she is kept around and treated differently then Neil is or anyone else. Neil being quiet to me is saying so much. I think he has had to know if he says something back the beast will come out and he is trying to do what he can to avoid it. When cold fish Ashley and fame whore Jamie were saying how you can tell she cares so much for Neil I was wondering what the hell they had been watching all this time. Sam has shown this same behavior on twitter from what is in the social media thread. Sam has no clue what she is saying by trying to say Neil's friends and are are alike either. She is a horrible person. I doubt his friends belittle him all the time and tell him all the things he does wrong or they thing he has done wrong. Hopefully they had been concerned for him over the time this was done and told him so. There is no way they didn't see a change in the type of person he was before and after being married to her. You can see it with him as it is on the show. Why would either of them sit near each other? I would want to be far away from the beast as I could be and she could care less for him and wants to be the center of attention always. I'm am honestly disgusted by all the experts for allowing a person like this on the show. I would bet they say nothing to her at the 6 month show. You can not tell me none of them noticed her not listening when they talked to her or both of them. She should have been called out each time for that. As well as no key and the moving back to her place on top of her abuse. The other thing is that this show should be showing the experts what is going on during filming so they can see for themselves what might need to be worked on with each couple or to get those out of abusive situations like this. This is one time that if a person coming out of this show wanted to sue I'd be behind it 100% for all the crap one has had to take and for the idiot experts for not doing their damn job. While Ashley is not great herself for not being upfront on things and how she acts over things but hell I rather deal with the quiet then the put downs any day. 

[operalover]

Speaking for myself -- yes, it is possible for a straight man and a straight woman to be 'just' good friends. I have a couple of those.

But there are also good 'friends' [including some who have always known us as a married couple] that have tried hitting on me -just to see if it would get them anywhere, I guess. (It didn't. My hubby and I are monogamous.) 

 

I also think most people have opposite-sex friends who have been lovers in the past - and there is usually an ember of attraction that might flame up at some point. (That's the kind of friend I think Jenna is to Tres.)

Regarding your last sentence- those who have been lovers in the past, that it could flare up- I have a good friend like that, talk to him almost every day as a best friend. We were in a relationship over ten years ago..but no, just no! It is NOT going to flare up in a sexual way ever! That is why it ended- that part did not work for us! Think of us as Jerry Seinfeld and Elaine- we work better as friends. But on the other hand, I think he still is secretly in love with me, but I would never sleep with him ever again if he was the last man on earth.  He has issues, let's just say but I love him dearly and glad he is in my life. Oh snap. 

 

I also have another close male friend, where there was a one-night stand 30 years ago in college! It was a drunken night, it never developed into anything more, as we were friends before that too. He got married and I got married and we talk a few times a year and see each other about once a year. He is devoted to his wife and not into me that way. But we have a history of being housemates in college and workmates in the college cafeteria, we were so crazy in those days that we are forever bonded by stories and silly things that happened with mutual people we both knew. We can just go down memory lane and just crack up!  His wife doesn't get us at all and I'm sure she finds it weird but it's platonic!

My guess is that Tres and Jenna may have had a drunken one night stand long ago and then just stayed friends after that cause it didn't take off into a relationship. 

[qtpye]

hile I do believe men and women can be just friends, as a woman I have to say that every one of my friendships with men ended because they wanted more or at least wanted to sleep with me. I have a guy I used to consider one of my best friends. We have been friends for 20 years. We met because I dated his best friend who died in a car accident while we were dating and the two of us bonded over the loss.  I see him as a big brother sort of friend. We go out  to eat, we go shopping together, we work out together etc. I'm not really attracted to him even though he's probably Ashley's type lol. He has a fiancé who he lives with and though he's never hit on me while I was married or when I'm dating someone, recently when I became single he proposed (several times) that we hook up once behind his fiancé's back  (who I'm friendly with) because he has fantasies about me. Made me really uncomfortable!!!  We are still friends but I don't talk to him much because of this. So I think in most cases there is some sexual interest there on one or the other's part. I thought the way Vanessa treated Jen was horrible though. My god, stop hanging all over Tres then rudely usher Jen outside . Jealous and insecure much? you have only known the guy three weeks. I thought it was nice of him to introduce them. If he was hiding the fact that he is friends with another woman I'd consider it a red flag but he clearly wanted them to meet. I didn't think it was a big deal that tres didn't go to the vet with Vanessa.

these women need to get over themselves!

 

 

I agree.  Some hetro men and women can probably chill together platonic-ally and others can not.  I had a male friend who I considered my best friend.  He saw me date other guys (he too had a serious girl friend for a while).  I still remember when I called him about my engagement.  He then confessed that he had been in love with me for years and wanted us to have a relationship.  I obviously had to stop talking to him.

 

He came to me later and apologized and wanted to rekindle our friendship.  However, out of respect to my husband I never spoke to him again.

 

One big red flag was that I often referred to him as a "brother from another mother and father", while he never called me his little sister (even though he would refer to other female friends in this manner).

[Jack Sampson]

Regarding Vanessa not being friends with men. What she says is, guys who started off as friends eventually asked her out or profess their love or something - and it was always considered weird or a turnoff and they were never friends again. For Vanessa, there's no such thing as being friends first, then having it develop into something else.

That's been my experience as well. The only women I'm friends with are ones I've hooked up with at least once. I can go from sex to friendship but, even then, there's a pretty high standard to keep my attention.