S10.E03: Lost Languages

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The artists create a member of a long lost race inspired by languages created by professional conlanger David Peterson.

[Monty9]

Ant (Dude with the beard who co-made the frog) tries to think and say intelligent things but juuuuuuust misses the mark.

 

Ant early on: "Because of his limited speech his other senses would be enhanced." Um..no Number 1. Speech is not a sense. Number 2. Even if you ignore him calling speech a sense there is no. damn. reason. why his vision/hearing et all would be enhanced. The creature's limited vocal range could be because either the creature does not have a mouth that can form complex sounds and/or that type of creature has limited intelligence and thus doesn't need and isn't able to create a range of words or concepts to communicate.

 

They showed Matt (my Boo) the model prominently again. That was so kind of the producers to show him. After all with his schedule we spend so much time apart ...

Edited January 28, 2016 by Monty9

[Rhetorica]

I loved this challenge! Face Off finally pertains to my major in Rhetoric. I liked the teams' thought process deciphering the language and combining the phonetics and the physical. Each model really sold their look. Walter and Rob's was OK but I really liked Melissa and Katie's. I think it was my favorite, though Anna and Yvonne's was very good too. Njoroge and Ant's was horrid and I hated Octoman. Robert and Johnny seemed so laissez-faire about the tentacles. Mel & Caleb made the most linguistically thoughtful creature. I'm glad Yvonne won. That headpiece was beautiful. Good episode.

[Monty9]

"I loved this challenge! Face Off finally pertains to my major in Rhetoric."

 

 

Really? Is it a mere interest or a full time profession? What does one study to do this?  Spill woman.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Monty9

[HunterHunted]

I loved this challenge! Face Off finally pertains to my major in Rhetoric. I liked the teams' thought process deciphering the language and combining the phonetics and the physical. Each model really sold their look. Walter and Rob's was OK but I really liked Melissa and Katie's. I think it was my favorite, though Anna and Yvonne's was very good too. Njoroge and Ant's was horrid and I hated Octoman. Robert and Johnny seemed so laissez-faire about the tentacles. Mel & Caleb made the most linguistically thoughtful creature. I'm glad Yvonne won. That headpiece was beautiful. Good episode.

I loved this challenge too and I have a masters in rhetoric. The judges are constantly harping on whether the forms and anatomy make sense. This finally forced the contestants to think through those things on their own.

[Rhetorica]

"I loved this challenge! Face Off finally pertains to my major in Rhetoric."

Really? Is it a mere interest or a full time profession? What does one study to do this? Spill woman.

I taught at the college level but you can do anything! Advertising, speech writing, debate coaching, interpersonal counseling, business communication, and on and on. Since communication is all symbol based, every thing speaks. I love meta communication.

[Ketzel]

Amazing to think someone has a successful career as a creator of imaginary languages. I'm pretty sure my high school guidance counselor didn't mention that as a possible option. :)

 

Very neat challenge!

[Frozendiva]

Mr. Bug Eyes wouldn't have bigger eyes or ears or whatever because he had limited speech. His speech, if any, would be dependent on evolution - his climate, the air around him, surroundings. Other types of creatures he interacted with.  Was he a predator? Prey? His larynx, lungs, teeth, etc. would create his speech/language. Also the size of his brain.

 

I didn't like SquidMan.

 

Liked both top looks and would have been happy if either had won. Both were good in their own way. The better and more realistic one did win (more proper anatomy to create the language). The headdress was beautiful.

 

Believable language and alphabet (if necessary) would be very difficult to create. Especially complex interactions. Which would also involve physiology.  Human communication is mostly non-verbal. Developing languages would be a cool job.

 

Interesting challenge.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Frozendiva

[azshadowwalker]

I have not been impressed with Robert, but he marches on. I am about ready for him to go.

[HunterHunted]

I have not been impressed with Robert, but he marches on. I am about ready for him to go.

And to think, he's a special effects makeup school instructor.

[GaT]

Interesting challenge this week. I had no idea that creating languages was an actual career. I was fascinated by the guy explaining how the way a language was spoken would or wouldn't be possible by the characters, & not only did the results depend on the skill of the contestant, but also on how good an actor the model was.

[mlp]

Robert cracked me up when he said his character was Octoman but "His friends call him Sushi."  Otherwise, that thing was dreadful - an interesting idea badly done. 

 

I was impressed by how well the models spoke their languages.  They all sounded quite natural.

[Iguana]

I really liked the inspiration of languages for this challenge. Yay for something that forced the contestants to really think how to create a creature who would be able to make those sounds. Boo to another team challenge, though. That's three in a row now, and I'm ready to see what each of them can do on their own.

Both top looks were good, and the headpiece was so well done I have no problem with the winner. The bottom looks were just so terrible and any of the four could have been sent home for it. The painting on the frog was truly ugly and the squid was exactly that, a squid head on a man. Poorly done.

[Canada]

And to think, he's a special effects makeup school instructor.

 

Those who can, do.  Those who can't, teach.

 

I really wish he was better, because I find him to be such an entertaining person.  But he's really just not very good.

 

There were two people (both ended up in the middle looks and were safe) who I don't recall seeing once so far this season!  Where did they come from??

[WearyTraveler]

I liked the challenge and I agreed with the judges' choices for top and bottom (and winner / elimination).

 

That said I was disappointed in all the artists because although they did give some thought to some of the sounds of the language, there was barely any discussion about the shape of the mouth to produce that language, all of it.  They didn't even try to sound it themselves to see what shape their lips made.

 

While Mel and Katie thought about the breathing and put in that pump (sorry, forgot the technical term they used for it) under the neck, they totally missed the fact that with those two canines it would be impossible for the person to pronounce some of the sounds (as the guest judge pointed out).  It was a great make-up, and the paint job was awesome, particularly the top of the head, but it failed a basic premise of the challenge, which is why I think it didn't win.

 

Anna and Yvonne were lucky that those awful teeth didn't fit their model, because I think that they would have gotten dinged for them.  From what little I heard of the language, it would have been impossible for their model to make the appropriate sounds with that mouthful of crooked teeth in there.  The guest judge actually complimented them in not messing around with the mouth too much because that way the model wasn't impaired to make all the necessary sounds.  The makeup was good, though, and that cowl was really well done.

 

I think most of the artists went with a whole visual of a character when hearing the words (he sounds angry, barking orders, praying, big and scary, etc.) instead of trying to figure out the anatomy of the mouth, teeth, tongue movement and breathing that would be required in order to actually make those sounds. Robert and his partner (whose name escapes me because he's a downer) heard clicking, so they went with a beak, but they completely ignored everything else in the language.  They all should have tried to repeat the sounds they heard, maybe that way they would have realized some of the things the guest judge said about the anatomical requirements to make those sounds.

 

All of that said, I think this group is talented.  Some of the choices they made were great.  And most of the execution was on point.

 

A bit of trivia about the guest judge: he was also a guest of The Daily Show a few weeks back, promoting a book he wrote about, you guessed it, how to create a language.  He was entertaining there.  Very interesting stuff,
 

Edited January 28, 2016 by WearyTraveler

[cee]

All I could think the entire episode...

 

[HunterHunted]

Interesting challenge this week. I had no idea that creating languages was an actual career. I was fascinated by the guy explaining how the way a language was spoken would or wouldn't be possible by the characters, & not only did the results depend on the skill of the contestant, but also on how good an actor the model was.

The episode where Daenerys reveals that she speaks high Valyrian is amazing. The high valyrian is beyond beautiful. He even blogged that he had made it sound too lovely. And honestly, I think he did. I loved that the models/actors got to have a field day with this challenge.

[Merneith]

Fascinating challenge but I wasn't terribly impressed by anyone's results. I did like the guy with the hat, I guess. Or I guess I should say - Diamond-Hat Man. I can't help liking Robert.

 

I do hope we're past the team challenges portion of this event.

 

Mackenzie's dress game was weak, too, this time.

[seacliffsal]

I really enjoyed this episode. However, I think they should have given the contestants some additional time or even training to understand the physical requirements of speech and various sounds. The entire group in the bottom could have been sent home and I would not miss any of them. I'm not that entertained by Robert; I'm really entertained by great ideas and execution.

Oh, and there are many awesome teachers who both can do and can teach-they just chose to teach in order to help students achieve their potential. However, there are also horrible teachers who can neither do nor teach but with such a large student population throughout the U.S. bodies are needed in classrooms and the pay isn't high enough to attract all of the qualified teachers that are needed.

[Rhetorica]

OT. Variation on the quote:

Those who can, teach.

Those who cannot, enact laws about education.

[diebartdie]

 I'm not that entertained by Robert; I'm really entertained by great ideas and execution.

Oh, and there are many awesome teachers who both can do and can teach-they just chose to teach in order to help students achieve their potential. However, there are also horrible teachers who can neither do nor teach.....

Hear! Hear! Personally Im not entertained by Robert at all, he seems like one of those types of people who acts weird just to get a reaction but besides just acting weird, they are not really weird at all just boring people craving attention. So far all the art he has helped create on the show has been crappy (except the very first piece but what all did he do there? Those two mandibles?), in his talking head segments he tries to make it seem as if he's just standing out of the way of whomever his partner is but I think the truth is he is happy enough to just follow along and hope for the best, hope that his idiosyncratic personality carries the day. On other shows that might be a great strategy but here? Unless the show is in the process of jumping the shark, face off has always been about the art, not the personalities. I dont like Robert and will be so glad when he is off the show.

[Quilt Fairy]

Mackenzie's dress game was weak, too, this time

I loved that turquoise dress, even more than last week's, probably because turquoise is my favorite color.  This is turning into Mackenzie's "Baubles, Bangles and Beads" season. I hope it continues.

[Primetimer]

Sometimes you get an alien face that implies a whole civilization. Sometime you get a frog.

Read the story

[PepperMonkey]

I've been a Robert fan from the start, but, yeah, I'm thinking/ fearing he's just not that good. It's why I've been so hungry for an individual challenge from these guys: so we can start to figure out the wheat from the chaff. At any rate, I do still like Robert and I think he's genuinely funny and clever but is he good at designing the character/s and their execution? I'm not so sure.

 

I disagreed with the winner because I thought it just looked like an emaciated Egyptian. Also, I don't particularly care for the lady who won, but I'm not really sure why that is. I keep liking Anna a bit, but she always seems to be the "assistant" of the winner, at least in the judges' eyes. At least Mel didn't win, although I will say she seemed to play as part of a team MUCH better this week than the past two.

 

Still waiting for individual challanges, though. They have an odd number now, right? Maybe we'll FINALLY see one next week. It's way too early for me to pick a winner.

Edited January 28, 2016 by PepperMonkey

[Lorimac]

Hasn't Anna been part of the winning or top two team in all challenges so far?  Last week she seemed to be the one talking Mel off the ledge, sculpt-wise, and then Mel wins even though she needed to be talked into what she did.  Thus time, Anna pushed Yvonne past her first idea into the full-on helmet sculpt, and she wins for that!  I suppose Anna is just waiting for the non-team challenges.

 

As far as the MacKenzie dress critique, her knees continue to suffer their aversion to fabric, hence the romper..... but I really liked her hairdo out in the desert - that was really neat!

[LadyMustang65]

We really enjoyed this episode, but it's one of the few times we've really disagreed with the judges' choice for the worst.  Neither of the bottom looks was good, but where they specified that the Octoman would not be able to produce the appropriate sounds, we would have gone with that one as the worst look.  Well, that and the black hole in the middle of the face.  But none of us heard them say anything about the other one not being able to make the sounds, so we figured between the really bad look and the failure of the challenge, Octoman should have been the loser.  Interesting that all of the ones who escaped elimination last night have been in the bottom a couple of times each.  Does not bode well for them.

[seacliffsal]

I found it entertaining that Mel thought she was so right about the ears that she told her partner they would let Mr. Westmore decide. Then, when asked, both Mr. Westmore and McKenzie exclaimed about how much they liked the ears. It was nice that without knowing they supported her partner. She really doesn't seem to 'play well' with others.

[phoenix780]

I found it entertaining that Mel thought she was so right about the ears that she told her partner they would let Mr. Westmore decide. Then, when asked, both Mr. Westmore and McKenzie exclaimed about how much they liked the ears. It was nice that without knowing they supported her partner. She really doesn't seem to 'play well' with others.

When I see her I get her confused with one of the bakers on that cake show back in the day with Duff Goldman, and that may be impacting my opinion in some way, but she's the first contestant I actively dislike.  She seems very needy and draining, but I don't get the sense that it's a genuine lack of confidence in ability.  It's kind of whining/fishing for compliments, in my opinion, and I'm over it. 

 

The German guy reminds me of Dr. Killinger on The Venture Bros, so I'm having fun with that for now.  I don't pay close enough attention to the show to hear some of what he actually says.

 

My favorite look last night was the priestess/mother of death.  To me that was the best fit between speech and model, and while the headdress that won was fantastic...I did think of it more as costume than makeup (mostly because if that were a real character it'd likely be removable, right, as part of the story, and it seemed kinda stuck on there?).  

 

Add me to the list of those who loved the challenge overall, though.  I would love to have heard more about how he created the languages, and I think it'd have been fun to see them translated after the looks were complete.  I know he didn't create a full language, more-so sounds, but I'd bet he had in mind what was being communicated.  I'm curious about that.

[Kaoteek]

I still really like Robert, but honestly, this week, all the make-ups were flawed to some degree, to the point I would have been hard pressed to choose a winner. Wolf-head, however, should have been in the bottom 2 or three.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Kaoteek

[starri]

I have no idea how Melissa and Katie's makeup wasn't top looks.  It was by far my favorite.

 

As far as McKenzie's short dresses go, the woman has great legs.  Let her show them off if she wants.

[Merneith]

I don't mind the shortness of Mackenzie's dresses. Or the tightness. But I missed the sense of badass menace that her dresses usually have.

[Madding crowd]

I enjoyed the creations this week although I found the made up language guy a bit pretentious. I also would not expect the designers to know exactly what face and mouth is appropriate for a language that doesn't actually exist. They also had to match up their creature with the artifacts found so I think they did a good job. Unless you study speech pathology, you would probably not be 100% accurate in identifying the appropriate physiology for each sound. 

 

I like Mackenzie but sometimes think she resembles a cyborg, which I guess is appropriate for the show. 

[Richness]

While I agree with the judges for top and bottom looks, I'd rather have kept the handsome Ant and gotten rid of Njoroge. Actually, I was hoping Robert would be the one going home, but oh well. While the sushi quip made me chuckle, I'm still not liking him. However, I thought the quality of all the make-ups took a major nose dive in this episode, and not just the bottom looks which were absolutely horrible.

 

While the premise was interesting, the language guy kept reminding me of the horrid douchebro that hiked the price of HIV medicines. That's simply unfortunate for him, as I rather like his job, especially the Dothraki language.

 

While I'm missing the individual challenges like most of you, I'm also missing the Foundation Challenges. I know we've never had a lot of them, but we haven't had any at all yet this season. We usually at least have one in the first episode. Heck, I wouldn't even mind a team challenge so much if each contestant was responsible for an entire character on their own so we could definitely see their individual skills.

[Thog]

 

I also would not expect the designers to know exactly what face and mouth is appropriate for a language that doesn't actually exist.

I don't think you need a speech pathology degree to know that your lips need to come together to make a "p" sound. I did worry that they were supposed to read the language guy's mind about what the characters would look like, but during judging I thought his criticisms were fair because he didn't go much deeper than that.

[Black Knight]

Lots of interest in the guest judge's work, I see - FYI, he's written a book, "The Art of Language Invention," in which he relates his experiences with Dothraki, etc., recounts the history of language invention in general (e.g., Tolkien, Klingon), and writes about the subculture of language inventors today...there are quite a lot of people who like to do this stuff just for fun!

[carrps]

 

A bit of trivia about the guest judge: he was also a guest of The Daily Show a few weeks back, promoting a book he wrote about, you guessed it, how to create a language.  He was entertaining there.  Very interesting stuff,

 

I was going to mention that. He was also much more articulate and interesting there, too. Since this show is taped months ago, I'm thinking it was one of his first appearances, and he wasn't terribly comfortable on camera. I was glad to see him here, because it reminded me to get his book. Interesting guy.

 

I'm so glad Ant was put out of his misery. I was kinda rooting for Robert to get the chop, because he doesn't seem to do much and what he does do is bad. But Ant is just delusional. And dumb.

 

I also think it's ironic how Anna seems to be coaching all the eventual winners. Although she has won once on her own, right? I like her calm, authoritative personality. She really shines in these team competitions. I also thought Mel was kinda sorta fishing for compliments on her ear sculpt. It's annoying.

 

Oh, and Johnny can go any time now, too. I think he's marginally better than Ant (what a pair of doofuses they made in the first challenge), but that's not saying much.

[WearyTraveler]

I don't think you need a speech pathology degree to know that your lips need to come together to make a "p" sound. I did worry that they were supposed to read the language guy's mind about what the characters would look like, but during judging I thought his criticisms were fair because he didn't go much deeper than that.

 

Yeah, that was my point.  If there's an M sound in the language, for example, you have to know that crazy teeth or fangs (as the ones in the non-wining top look) are going to make it very difficult to make that sound.

[Black Knight]

One thing I noticed is that Robert and his teammate - whose name I'm spacing on right now, Jimmy? Jeremy? - didn't bother to thank their model. That's never a good look for a contestant to begin with, but since the model did a hell of a job trying to sell that squid mask they stuck on him (as one of them acknowledged in an interview), I especially didn't like it this time.

[LittleIggy]

I thought of Dothraki (and of course Tolkien's languages)when I found out what the premise would be, so it was nice to see the guy who created the GoT languages. I agree with everybody who was annoyed by that guy calling language production a "sense." I was yelling at the screen every time he said that!

[sourpickles]

Really good challenge for this episode. I found language guy fascinating, now I want to go out and get his book. I hope they have him on again! Clear top and bottom looks as well. I hated that wolf thing, sea creature, and frog. That squid(?) thing, has someone done that before? And am I the only one that thought it somewhat resembled GermanTexan (whose accent is getting rather fluid)? I think it was the forehead. Pieroge and Ant did something out of the 50s Bmovies, and Ant, he of the interesting nickname and boring personality, should have gone. Was not really sold on Yvonne winning, but I did like the look, all the top looks, actually. Not sure any one person is standing out yet (maybe all the team challenges?), but this batch has talent. I'll agree with all the MacKenzie love, her dress at judging was beautiful, and I too loved her hairdo in the desert. She should wear it like that more often. It was funny, my husband walked by when they were rerunning the first episode (he hasn't seen any of them) and when she was doing the intro in the theater, he took one look at her in that red lipstick and went "WHOA!!! What happened to her? She looks terrible!!". I explained that was probably the lipstick and when we got to judging he concurred. And my husband could not care less about makeup or anything to do with beautification, and even HE noticed. But overall she is one sharp dresser! On to next week, rooting for an individual challenge!

[caprice]

I also think it's ironic how Anna seems to be coaching all the eventual winners. Although she has won once on her own, right? I like her calm, authoritative personality. She really shines in these team competitions. I also thought Mel was kinda sorta fishing for compliments on her ear sculpt. It's annoying.

 

I think Anna is doing a great job at setting herself into a position of strength. We've had three team challenges and her team has won each week with her partner going on to be the over-all winner. I'm keeping an eye on her.

 

I'm definitely agreeing with everyone up-thread who got excited about the potential a linguistic challenge could pose. It was unfortunate that more of the teams didn't try out the phrases on their own before getting so sold on "what type of creature would sound like this?" while ignoring how the sounds are actually formed. Peterson was right to point out that the beak would prohibit some of the sounds that character was supposed to be vocalizing. He was also right to point out that the fangs get in the way of sibilants and acknowledge that it worked anyway.

[Canada]

I couldn't think who the squid character reminded me of.  Then I watched Futurama:

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by Canada

[diebartdie]

That squid(?) thing, has someone done that before? And am I the only one that thought it somewhat resembled GermanTexan (whose accent is getting rather fluid)? I think it was the forehead.

The squid thing reminded me of season 7 Creature Carnage spotlight challenge. The very entertaining George created it and even though his sucked, the one that Robert and Johnny created sucked so much worse!

[sourpickles]

That might be it, though it might be the color I'm objecting to the most. And I love the Futurama above! I just felt it was so out of place, but clearly not as much as the frogger thing. Surprised there wasn't more hate for the wolf man/skin/head creature. I almost hated that more....

[sourpickles]

I will give you that. It COULD have been better in that way. But it wasn't. Looked to me like a bad Halloween mask. I guess cause the others were worse they got dinged more. But still. For about one second while I was typing I thought I'd have the chance to see tomorrow...then I remembered it was on Wednesday. Dang.

[April Bloodgate]

Ant (Dude with the beard who co-made the frog) tries to think and say intelligent things but juuuuuuust misses the mark.

 

Ant early on: "Because of his limited speech his other senses would be enhanced." Um..no Number 1. Speech is not a sense. Number 2. Even if you ignore him calling speech a sense there is no. damn. reason. why his vision/hearing et all would be enhanced. The creature's limited vocal range could be because either the creature does not have a mouth that can form complex sounds and/or that type of creature has limited intelligence and thus doesn't need and isn't able to create a range of words or concepts to communicate.

Ughh... This bothered me so much. And he said it at least twice.