S02.E01: Tattoo You / S02.E02: The Mao Function

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Liza tries to sort out her relationship with Josh; Caitlin returns from school.

Liza questions Josh's interest in her; Kelsey is courted by another publisher.

Edited January 6, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Bort]

Word of warning: My listing had the new episode marked as a repeat for some reason and my DVR wasn't going to record it. Thankfully, I noticed this and set it to manually record. So, check your DVRs!

[rallymantis]

In anticipation of tonight's ep, today I bought a cashmere muffler that looks like Liza's (only hers is blue & mine is gray).  Girlfriend's Guide is House Porn -- this show is Accessory Porn.

[Primetimer]

Despite some issues, there are signs of this quirky comedy acting its age, which gives us hope for the new season.

Read the story

[Eri]

I dislike Liza's daughter but she's mainly being an annoying teenager and that's what they do. I did not expect her to be thrilled with Liza dating Josh but to move in with the dad shortly after just felt like a power play and a big "F you" to her if I ever saw one.

Speaking of which, the more Josh and Liza are together - the less I want them to be. I did not realize that Liza misinterpreted the text message because the whole episode I was wondering, "Why does she keep saying he broke up with her? He said he had to work." I did not catch it, even with the lack of punctuation.

If their relationship is going to be on and off for the next several episodes, I'd rather they not be together at all.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Eri

[KLovestoShop]

I don't like Josh with Liza, either. Plus, his haircut is not attractive on him. Liza's daughter is going to be a giant pain in the ass, and the less we see of her, the better.

[Bort]

I loved Liza's bafflement over the three dots. Those damn dots make no sense.

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh, I can get why Josh's "can't make it work" is confusing. He was acting all strange towards her lately and then he wanted to meet her and then he changed his mind. I don't know how I feel about that character anymore, either. Last season, I really liked him and Liza and these two episodes felt off with them. I feel like the writers are intentionally writing it this way, to lead to the Liza/Charles/Dianna triangle.

I dislike Caitlin, more than I thought it would. I get that she is 18 but seriously, her attitude towards her mom dating Josh was beyond. I also didn't expect her to be super happy about it all, but her attitude was something else and then moving in with the dad? From my understanding, he isn't that great. Didn't he put the whole family in a big money issue? Or is Caitlin not aware of that?

I

[gpgurl50]

I dislike Caitlin, more than I thought it would. I get that she is 18 but seriously, her attitude towards her mom dating Josh was beyond. I also didn't expect her to be super happy about it all, but her attitude was something else and then moving in with the dad? From my understanding, he isn't that great. Didn't he put the whole family in a big money issue? Or is Caitlin not aware of that?

 

Caitlin's attitude definitely bugged, especially since Liza seems to be working harder to be responsible but I think Caitlin might not know about that?  I could be remembering this wrong but I feel like she needed money and assumed her parents had it.  Then Liza had to rush to get money and tried to sell her underwear.

 

I am also feeling Josh less this season.  However, I like that Liza has been called out on lying, especially with how contrived it is and how bad she can be at it.

[BooBear]

Eh, I can get why Josh's "can't make it work" is confusing. He was acting all strange towards her lately and then he wanted to meet her and then he changed his mind. I don't know how I feel about that character anymore, either. Last season, I really liked him and Liza and these two episodes felt off with them. I feel like the writers are intentionally writing it this way, to lead to the Liza/Charles/Dianna triangle.

 

Ok it wasn't just me. I think Josh was acting funny. More immature. I think he has been told to act that way so what Liza will break up with him.

[Kromm]

In addition to my aforementioned love of Foster and Shor, I've become a fan of Debi Mazar and Hilary Duff, neither of whom I had any particular connection to before.

I don't know about Duff (the only show I know her well from is that crappy one she did as a kid), but Mazar's been great in almost everything she's been in (she's been something of a Hey It's That Girl with a New Yawk accent, but at the very least everyone should know her from Goodfellas).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ha, I am going to take the first episode as a cautionary tale on the dangers of not using proper punctuation. But seriously, I knew that she was misinterpreting his text when she said he was dumping her. I was already rolling my eyes and telling her to calm down as soon as she started freaking out.

 

Mark and Diana were both incredibly short sighted not to see the value in Kelsey's pitch. As Kelsey said, sure it's a silly book, not great literature, but it will sell well to a young audience. I'm glad that he recognized that giving her an imprint targeting younger readers would make her happy and allow Empirical to make money/sell books without tarnishing the original brand.

 

I'm still confused about how old Caitlin is supposed to be. She's in college, right? That's what I assumed when we found out that she was in India (and again when she needed her tuition paid). When Liza freaked out that Josh did her tattoo, I thought that maybe the reason was that Caitlin isn't 18 (in which case it would be illegal for him to tattoo her) but it turned out that Liza was freaking out because Josh wasn't psychic enough to know that some random customer was Liza's daughter. But Josh mentioned that they wouldn't run into Caitlin in the second episode because the bar was strict about carding, so I guess at the very least we know that she isn't 18. Did I just forget the details from last season? Did Liza mention how old Caitlin is when she confessed to Josh at the end of last season?

 

I was actually expecting Caitlin to run into Liza and Josh the night that she went out with her friends, but getting a tattoo from Josh was even more ridiculous.

 

I know Liza's ex is supposed to be a jerk but he gets points from me for offering to take Caitlin to White Castle!

 

Hee, I love that Josh's roommate was holding a grudge against Liza for breaking Josh's heart. I know I'm supposed to root for Liza, but it was sweet to see that he wanted to protect Josh from getting hurt again. I also loved that he was wearing her bathrob when she came over.

 

On a shallow note, Hilary Duff is a pretty girl but I hate to see them dress her in unflattering outfits. She has a short neck so they should not put her in turtlenecks. I'm not judging her, but I am judging the costume department.

 

I liked the red dress that Diana was wearing at the beginning of the first episode and I'm glad that they're letting her wear her hair down instead of that old lady chignon they forced on her last season. Hopefully they will let her look more like a real 40 year old this season instead of the tv version with frumpy blazers and dresses.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I also thought that Josh was pretty immature this episode.  It's very noble that he didn't want to keep lying to Liza's friends about why they broke up, but you don't just take off on someone without so much as a goodbye while their back is turned!  He literally disappeared while Liza was distracted, and didn't even text to say that he was leaving.  Not cool.  But, you know, I could be biased, because I want Liza and Charles to get together.

 

Speaking of Charles, I thought it was pretty crappy that he was flirting with the dentist in front of Diana.  He has to realize that Diana's interested in him...right?  So, again, not cool to make an embarrassing situation (like chipping your tooth and having a dental procedure in front of your crush!) even more awkward.   

 

I hope that this means we won't be seeing much more of Caitlyn.  I don't know why, but I found her annoying.  I really hope they don't have her go after Josh.  That would be pretty icky.  

[EdnasEdibles]

I'm also not a fan of Josh. I can see where she'd want to be with him initially. He's hot, he's fun, the sex is good. But honestly, what the hell do they have in common? And then his constant comments about her age now that she knows. I'm going to be 40 in a month and that would get REALLY tiresome very quickly. 

 

I was also confused by her reaction to his "whiskey dick" - was it that she wasn't aware that this happens? Or was it that she didn't think it was actually whiskey causing the issue - but her age? Because she's been married, not dead. She had to know that alcohol can cause men to not be able to perform as well as they would be able to if sober. This is not a new problem. Her husband likely suffered from it from time to time. 

[Bort]

I'm still confused about how old Caitlin is supposed to be. She's in college, right? That's what I assumed when we found out that she was in India (and again when she needed her tuition paid). When Liza freaked out that Josh did her tattoo, I thought that maybe the reason was that Caitlin isn't 18 (in which case it would be illegal for him to tattoo her) but it turned out that Liza was freaking out because Josh wasn't psychic enough to know that some random customer was Liza's daughter. But Josh mentioned that they wouldn't run into Caitlin in the second episode because the bar was strict about carding, so I guess at the very least we know that she isn't 18. Did I just forget the details from last season? Did Liza mention how old Caitlin is when she confessed to Josh at the end of last season?

I think Caitlin in India was her last semester of high school, that was abroad, and that she's 18, because you have to be to get a tattoo without your parents' permission. And a bar in New York that's strict on carding won't let anyone in that's under 21, so Liza and Josh would be Caitlin-free there.

[dubbel zout]

I hate on-again, off-again relationships, so the show needs to fish or cut bait with Josh and Liza. But I'm afraid we'll get a Charles/Liza/Josh/Diana quad instead. Ugh. 

 

The show still hasn't dialed back Diana's social desperateness, alas. And while she doesn't have to love every book she sells, she definitely needs to understand its potential. Don't make her stupid at work, either. (Though at least Charles wasn't on board, either, but the same should be true for him.)

 

I was annoyed that Liza dating a younger man is somehow so much worse than her possibly transitioning.

 

I think the show is doing a decent job of preventing Liza from telling Kelsey the truth about her age. I know a lot of people have a problem with the entire premise of the show, but it's not a documentary or a how-to, so I can hand wave the more eye-rolling aspects of it. Plus, Sutton Foster is so appealing that she sells it for me.

[SailorGirl]

 

Speaking of Charles, I thought it was pretty crappy that he was flirting with the dentist in front of Diana.  He has to realize that Diana's interested in him...right?  So, again, not cool to make an embarrassing situation (like chipping your tooth and having a dental procedure in front of your crush!) even more awkward.   

 

I guess I"m in the minority, because I LOVE Josh and Liza together -- the chemistry between the two actors is pretty intense. I didn't think he was completely dumping her but I did think he was blowing her off/standing her up. Maybe its a 40+ thing but I didn't for a minute think he was telling her he couldn't make it because he was working. I thought it meant "oops, couldn't make the timing to get there work out" and he was really cavalier about it. Plus, I'm an editor, so I would have been even more aware of the lack of punctuation and the difference it makes in the message! 

To answer your question, as a single, 40+ woman who dates, I can tell you that, realistically, no, Charles has absolutely no idea that Diana is interested in him. (1) he's a man. They can be pretty pretty clueless overall. (2) He's an executive in his mid-late 40s who is recently divorced with two kids. Trust me. He has NO CLUE. Unless he is doing the noticing of a blatantly shiny object (Liza and the dentist), he is OBLIVIOUS to Diana's interest. Are you gettin' where I'm going here?? :-D

Remember last season when Liza went on an "age-appropriate" blind date and he checked his work email and expected her to be perfectly fine with it, and she just accepted it? Trust me, that scene was either written by, or told to a writer by, a single, 40+ woman. It is the reality. And I loved that later in that episode, when the girls wanted Josh to give them a tattoo and Liza was disappointed but went along, "it's okay, it's work," Josh was like "hell no, my only focus is you." That would be quite refreshing!

 

I remember watching last season and thinking what a good job they are doing of portraying both generations pretty accurately and wondering if their writing team is a mix of 20-somethings and 40-somethings. I know there was debate about Liza's lack of knowledge about all things social media and pop culture but I can see how she wouldn't know about a lot of things. For example, I wasn't surprised at all by her lack of knowledge of who Lena Dunham is or anything about twitter -- I'm pretty up on things and have a lot of friends in their late 20s-30s and I am only peripherally aware of who LD is, and I'm still trying to figure out the value of Twitter beyond celebs using it as a tool to hawk wares to their fans and try to stay relevant. So I can completely believe that a NJ suburban mom wouldn't have a clue.

 

Edited January 14, 2016 by SailorGirl

[Mu Shu]

Caitlin's attitude definitely bugged, especially since Liza seems to be working harder to be responsible but I think Caitlin might not know about that? I could be remembering this wrong but I feel like she needed money and assumed her parents had it. Then Liza had to rush to get money and tried to sell her underwear.

I am also feeling Josh less this season. However, I like that Liza has been called out on lying,

especially with how contrived it is and how bad she can be at it.

I don't remember her exact words, but when Liza was explaining why her father didn't send his

share of the tuition, she was all "I don't care about your broken family drama. I just need $1,800.00". Miserable brat. Go live with your broke ass father and go to community college and get a waitress or call center job to pay it.

I was over Josh in episode one. Hipster tattoo guy playing ironic Hillbilly music in NY for hipsters who wouldn't dare brave the real thing in Hazard.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Mu Shu

[gesundheit]

I dislike Liza's daughter but she's mainly being an annoying teenager and that's what they do. I did not expect her to be thrilled with Liza dating Josh but to move in with the dad shortly after just felt like a power play and a big "F you" to her if I ever saw one.

Speaking of which, the more Josh and Liza are together - the less I want them to be. I did not realize that Liza misinterpreted the text message because the whole episode I was wondering, "Why does she keep saying he broke up with her? He said he had to work." I did not catch it, even with the lack of punctuation.

41-year-old here and I have no idea what iMessage dots are or what anyone is talking about, so I guess I'm way out of touch. I even missed that in the episode. That said, I did know he wasn't breaking up with her, I assumed he meant he "couldn't make it work" as in, he couldn't make his schedule work for that evening to allow him to show up.

 

 

I don't want Liza and Charles to get together because he's my least favorite character. He's way too cool and smooth. Every other character on this show is allowed to shine at times but also be flawed and messy at other times, he's just too polished. It bores me. Although I'd be all for him finally noticing Diana (oh, Charles and Diana, I just noticed that) because I root for her to get everything she wants, basically.

 

Caitlin is awful. I hope she's just recurring.

I remember watching last season and thinking what a good job they are doing of portraying both generations pretty accurately and wondering if their writing team is a mix of 20-somethings and 40-somethings. I know there was debate about Liza's lack of knowledge about all things social media and pop culture but I can see how she wouldn't know about a lot of things. For example, I wasn't surprised at all by her lack of knowledge of who Lena Dunham is or anything about twitter -- I'm pretty up on things and have a lot of friends in their late 20s-30s and I only peripherally aware of who LD is, and I'm still trying to figure out the value of Twitter beyond celebs using it as a tool to hawk wares to their fans and try to stay relevant. So I can completely believe that a NJ suburban mom wouldn't have a clue.

I definitely find myself rolling my eyes at some of it because I'm about the same age as Liza, but on the other hand I've spent my adult life in NYC and have never been married or even co-habitated, which means I'm exposed to a very different world from that of a suburban wife and mother. (I still don't buy her bafflement about bikini waxes, though.)

[MoreCoffeePlease]

My show is back.  Yeah!

 

Diana did look extra gorgeous, both with hair, makeup and wardrobe.  To chip a front tooth at a restaurant, or anywhere for that matter ... how horrifying!  And what dentist office is run that way, with the dentist greeting you at the door?  I know we put up with a lot of unbelievable stuff with this show, but come on.

 

Liza should just let Josh go. I know it would be hard, but what is going to happen in 5 - 10 years when he wants kids?  She has had her fun. Now move on.

 

I hope that Kelsey got more money in addition to her own imprint. Charles said he couldn't match the other offer with $$, but she had the power at that point and should at least have gotten a little bit more.

[Julia]

Sadly, I think the child of an adolescent narcissist and the woman who gave up her dreams to be the perfect suburban wife and mother for him would probably end up just like Caitlin. Interesting values, though, if it's easier to forgive dad for cheating, gambling away everything they had and leaving her school fees hanging than it is to forgive mom for pulling a younger guy.

It made me smile that somewhere in the middle of all that mess Maggie went out and got herself a slightly-dim-but-funloving much younger toygirl and nobody turned a hair.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Julia

[Ambrosefolly]

Sadly, I think the child of an adolescent narcissist and the woman who gave up her dreams to be the perfect suburban wife and mother for him would probably end up just like Caitlin. Interesting values, though, if it's easier to forgive dad for cheating, gambling away everything they had and leaving her school fees hanging than it is to forgive mom for pulling a younger guy.

When did she find out? (I haven't seen every episode) If it was recently, especially the affair, it would be pretty stupid, but if it was before going to India, I can see her processing her dad's affair in that time. I wouldn't be surprised if the India decision was triggered by their divorce. I think she had a point, Liza does need to figure things out and she wasn't being particularly rude.

[WhosThatGirl]

I'm not sure if Caitlin found out- I can't remember if she did but I agree, it is fairly easy to forgive Dad for screwing up and from what we know of Liza, she seemed like a devoted people-pleaser Mom, who probably bended over backwards for Caitlin and her husband. Also, throwing this in because I read the book that this show is adapted from, book Caitlin is no picnic either. However, book Liza-even though not her name in the book- reacts different. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I thought Josh was super pissed off at Liza at the end of Season 1 and had left her?  Can someone remind me how it was left?  

[sinkwriter]

He was super pissed. But then I thought she had made a video for him, explaining her life and who she was in much more depth, and then left it up to him. I recall a moment where she's on a sidewalk and he comes up to her and they kind of start over again, re-introducing themselves to one another, so you get the sense that they're going to give it a try.

 

One line from the new season that amused me (which Adam highlighted in his review): "I bet Seabiscuit would love a Gallup poll." Heeeee. Dorky line, but really cute and funny.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yes, Josh and Liza sort of made up after he saw the video. But then this first episode happened and he's being written very different this season. Like everything he does is meant to turn Liza off so that she will want to break up with him. I get that he's allowed to be mad but even last season, he seemed like a more understanding guy. Last seasons's Josh seems like he would be more understanding about why Liza feels the need to lie to Kelsey-who while also her friend, is also her coworker and it's how she's keeping her job- this season, he just seems kind of rude. And I don't know, are Liza's friends Josh's friends? Last season, aside from one double date with Kelsey and Kelsey's boyfriend and the hot mavitz  party, did Josh really hang out with Liza's friends much?  Maybe I'm wrong but.. whatever. If it's such a problem for Josh then he obviously can't deal with it and they should end it. 

[sinkwriter]

I feel like he is still being very understanding under the circumstances, despite their miscommunications. He does still want to be with her, he cares about her. And I do think he should be allowed a period of astonishment, like, "Holy shit, when I was 16, you were 30! Wow, Mrs. Robinson, are you trying to seduce me?" LOL. (Like he'd know that reference anyway. Heh.)

 

But I do think they're writing him more immaturely, like with the getting really drunk and then blurting out stupid stuff about her age to everyone around at the bar. I suppose in a way that might not be entirely inaccurate, the differences in men that are in their 20's versus their 40's. But with that and the daughter hating the age difference between them and being all "ewww, gross, I can't talk to you!" I don't like that it seems they're deliberately trying to force him to look stupid and immature and "not right for Liza" on purpose, just to make it okay for her to break his heart and move on to Charles.

 

I genuinely like Josh, and I'm already feeling uneasy that he's the one who's going to get stomped on in the process of her trying to find her way with work and Charles and everything else.

Edited January 15, 2016 by sinkwriter

[sinkwriter]

I suppose we're supposed to root for her with Charles because he's her age and so they're more likely to have stuff in common and connect better. But I think both men offer different, good things to Liza. With Josh she gets a spike of energy and spontaneity in her life that I'm not sure the straight-laced Liza has ever had or allowed herself to have. With Charles she gets the kind of mature, smart, kind man her ex-husband wasn't or couldn't be.

[adam807]

 

I'm still confused about how old Caitlin is supposed to be. She's in college, right? That's what I assumed when we found out that she was in India (and again when she needed her tuition paid). When Liza freaked out that Josh did her tattoo, I thought that maybe the reason was that Caitlin isn't 18 (in which case it would be illegal for him to tattoo her) but it turned out that Liza was freaking out because Josh wasn't psychic enough to know that some random customer was Liza's daughter. But Josh mentioned that they wouldn't run into Caitlin in the second episode because the bar was strict about carding, so I guess at the very least we know that she isn't 18. Did I just forget the details from last season? Did Liza mention how old Caitlin is when she confessed to Josh at the end of last season?

...

 

On a shallow note, Hilary Duff is a pretty girl but I hate to see them dress her in unflattering outfits. She has a short neck so they should not put her in turtlenecks. I'm not judging her, but I am judging the costume department.

I think Caitlin went abroad between high school and college, so she'd be 18. Tattoo legal but not bar legal. And the tuition is for whatever program she was on I guess. Or it was a regular junior year abroad? But then she still wouldn't be 21.

I had HUGE issues with Liza's clothes last season too. It was as if her idea of dressing young was dressing badly, and it actually made her look OLDER. But she was pretty on point in these episodes I thought. Her weird but cute little outfit in the GIF! It's just weird because Diana always looks perfect.

The dots mean the other person is typing. If you don't have a smartphone and don't know that, that's fine, but presumably Liza HAS USED HER PHONE TO TEXT PEOPLE BEFORE.

[Snarklepuss]

Sadly, I think the child of an adolescent narcissist and the woman who gave up her dreams to be the perfect suburban wife and mother for him would probably end up just like Caitlin. Interesting values, though, if it's easier to forgive dad for cheating, gambling away everything they had and leaving her school fees hanging than it is to forgive mom for pulling a younger guy.

 

Yeah, way to perpetuate a double standard.  But I think that's just what it is.  Although Dad did win points with me for the White Castle reference, LOL.  Caitlin didn't just bug or annoy me, I felt offended by her.  Am I just old fashioned or did I see a total lack of respect there for her mother?  Her daughter talked down to her like she was a mother who just found her daughter turning tricks in a crack den or something.  How suddenly all judgmental of her.  It seemed way hypocritical.  I guess Mom isn't allowed to break out of her boring routine life even once to make out with a cute younger guy.  Sure, it's a shock to see your mother doing that but I'm trying to think of what a person from such a younger generation than mine would think.  I'm surprised that she could be so relatively prudish about it.  I guess it's different when it's your mother, though, I suppose.

 

I feel like he is still being very understanding under the circumstances, despite their miscommunications. He does still want to be with her, he cares about her. And I do think he should be allowed a period of astonishment, like, "Holy shit, when I was 16, you were 30! Wow, Mrs. Robinson, are you trying to seduce me?" LOL. (Like he'd know that reference anyway. Heh.)

 

I think the show is trying to dramatize Josh's ambivalence by making him not as reliable as he normally would be, while still trying to make him look like his feelings for Liza haven't changed.  We have yet to find out whether he settles down out of it or decides he can't handle it.  It looks like he will get hung up on her not telling Kelsey the truth which I do think is a switch from last season.  Unless he's coming around to feeling like the only way he can handle the situation is if she levels with the friends he has regular contact with.  I can understand that, actually.  It's one thing to accept her lying, but another to accept himself participating in it with her.

 

 

I suppose we're supposed to root for her with Charles because he's her age and so they're more likely to have stuff in common and connect better. But I think both men offer different, good things to Liza. With Josh she gets a spike of energy and spontaneity in her life that I'm not sure the straight-laced Liza has ever had or allowed herself to have. With Charles she gets the kind of mature, smart, kind man her ex-husband wasn't or couldn't be.

 

I would love to see her have the best of both worlds for a while with both of them, but knowing her she'd just feel guilty and not enjoy it.  Although it could add even more dramatic sexual tension between her and Charles if she feels a little guilt over it, plus the sneaking around aspect of it - from both work and Josh.  I guess it's just me, but I love the "forbidden" aspect of her interactions with Charles.  It adds a lot of sexual tension that I find pretty irresistible.  Plus I think the actor who plays him is very handsome and they do have incredible chemistry on camera already.  Meanwhile, Josh really feels like a "boy toy" to me.  I don't find much substance in their relationship, while with Charles there can be both substance and hot sex too.  But perhaps that's just me!

Edited January 15, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Snarklepuss]

I had HUGE issues with Liza's clothes last season too. It was as if her idea of dressing young was dressing badly, and it actually made her look OLDER. But she was pretty on point in these episodes I thought. Her weird but cute little outfit in the GIF! It's just weird because Diana always looks perfect.

The dots mean the other person is typing. If you don't have a smartphone and don't know that, that's fine, but presumably Liza HAS USED HER PHONE TO TEXT PEOPLE BEFORE.

 

ITA on both counts and thought the same thing about the clothes in this episode.  Perhaps they decided they didn't need to try so hard to make her look young as to dress her like a tween, LOL.  And even I know what the dots are and I'm 57!

[sinkwriter]

 

I don't find much substance in their relationship, while with Charles there can be both substance and hot sex too.  But perhaps that's just me!

 

I think I'd be more okay with it if Diana wasn't also interested in him. She's already lying to Diana about her age and who she is; to have Diana feel like Liza "the younger woman" cut in and got with the man that's Diana's age... I don't know, it just seems so hurtful. Especially because she can obviously tell how much Diana is interested. I know Charles isn't interested in Diana, but... I just wish this wasn't going to become yet another issue between Diana and Liza.

[marieYOTZ]

Hey all! I watched the whole first season yesterday and followed up with the new eps (can't even tell you how happy i was to discover Sutton Foster has another show -- THANK YOU WORLD!)

I thought there was a pretty noticeable dumbing down of Josh in the season 2 episodes - suddenly he turned into the version of Josh that Liza imagined back in season 1 after some chick he'd dated told her he was dumb as a box of rocks (she imagined him walking up to her asking what was the plural of ice) - it was not flattering for him. I hope they back off it. I'm not totally sold on them being "true love" but i don't want him to turn into an idiot to justify a break up.

I do like her chemistry with Charles, i loved the moment in season 1 where he came home when she'd babysat for him and was so grateful for how good she'd been with his daughters. But i agree with the poster above, i can't get into it at the expense of Diana - remember when she taped the check to Liza's computer? That was a classy and kind move, and i'd rather see the women's relationship develop than see them as two corners in a love triangle.

The daughter is the worst. I believe in the first episode she was said to be spending her final year of high school in India. She can spend all four years of college there as well, far as i'm concerned. Liza having an 'adult' daughter does bring an interesting element to the masquerade, but the less time the show spends with Caitlin, the happier i'll be!

Overall, i really like the show! It's less sit-com than i was expecting, and they pack a lot into the 22 minute episodes. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season!

[Hanahope]

I find this show fun and a little close to home as my husband is 12 years younger than me, we meet when I was 35 and he was 23.  At least I didn't have kids then, so it was at least a bit easier for me to seem younger than I was, though I never lied about my age.  Yeah, the little age comparison jokes get tiring, especially now that I'm 50 and he's still in his 30s.  I'm fortunate that my hair hasn't grayed and my skin is good, so the age difference isn't too noticeable.

 

And even at my age, I am in awe of how clueless Liza seems to be about things, like imessage dots, 'whiskey dick' (though I guess she didn't date much when she was really younger) and such.  It does seem sometimes that Liza was in hibernation during her daughter's school years.  I do agree with not completely understanding twitter, the least of which is not having near enough time to be constantly monitoring it, which seems to be required to keep up with it all.

 

I think Liza should have told Kelsey, as hard as it may seem.  It will only make Liza's life harder as a whole.  Am glad to see Caitlin out of the picture, at least as a constant character.

[snorca]

I seem to be in that minority as well - I really like Liza and Josh together. However I agree that the writers seem to be "changing" his personality so far this season. I don't like it. I do like Charles and think they have chemistry but I hate that the show seems to be trying so hard to make us think that her relationship with Josh can't work or for some reason it's better to be with someone closer in age. This hits a bit close to home I guess...I'm currently involved with a much younger man. It can work and it can work well. I do understand Josh not wanting to be involved in her lying and that seems like an honest conflict between them but the show just seems to be trying too hard to make things difficult with them.

Oh and the daughter can STFU and just be gone. Ugh.

[dubbel zout]

The dots mean the other person is typing. If you don't have a smartphone and don't know that, that's fine, but presumably Liza HAS USED HER PHONE TO TEXT PEOPLE BEFORE.

 

She was texting all last season! The dots thing was so dumb. I don't have a smartphone, but even I understand what the dots mean. And I'm older than Liza. Gah.

 

When this show tries to have it both ways with technology, it doesn't work at all. I can buy Liza not being up to date on the latest apps and stuff, but don't try to tell me she doesn't understand texting when she's being doing it forever.

Edited January 15, 2016 by dubbel zout

[Bort]

The stupid dots seem to be so misleading, though. Because I'll see those damn things flickering away for like 5 minutes, only for the other person to text "OK".

[Snarklepuss]

I think I'd be more okay with it if Diana wasn't also interested in him. She's already lying to Diana about her age and who she is; to have Diana feel like Liza "the younger woman" cut in and got with the man that's Diana's age... I don't know, it just seems so hurtful. Especially because she can obviously tell how much Diana is interested. I know Charles isn't interested in Diana, but... I just wish this wasn't going to become yet another issue between Diana and Liza.

 

I agree about lying to Diana about her age but about Charles?  Diana doesn't have dibs on him just because she's gaga over him, especially because he obviously has zero interest in her.  So I don't think Liza owes her anything on that score, as hurtful as Diana may find it.  Sorry to be so blunt about it, but all's fair in love and war I always say.  Plus Diana needs to stop acting so pathetic and get a grip on herself.  She's really embarrassing herself.  If when I was single I worried about how the other women that were interested in my not-yet husband would feel if I nabbed him, we never would have celebrated our 35th anniversary this year.  And he was very handsome (still is) and there were several women who were interested, too.  Some of whom are still friends and got over it and found great guys of their own.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I felt bad for Josh when Maggie's friend started grilling him about why he and Liza broke up, and I agree with him - he was put in an awkward position and he shouldn't have to lie for Liza or perpetuate her lies. But manners! At least tell your girlfriend that you're leaving the party without her. It's rude to leave without saying anything. He didn't even text her to let her know.

[sinkwriter]

 

Plus Diana needs to stop acting so pathetic and get a grip on herself.  She's really embarrassing herself.

 

This is really the part about it that bothers me. She's a grown woman, she's not clueless. Surely she can tell that he's not interested. So I wish they weren't making this a thing that's probably going to become an issue between Liza and Diana. It really bugs me.

[gesundheit]

Oh, those dots! Okay, yeah. The ones that mean someone is typing. I don't have that on my phone, but various messaging platforms on the computer have that (FB messaging, g-chat I think, etc). What did that have to do with the plot? I legitimately missed that dialogue. Was that the "Can't make it work" thing? Because that makes no sense, if the dots played into that then "work" wouldn't even be in the same message bubble/box thingy.

 

Anyway. Missed that.

 

This is really the part about it that bothers me. She's a grown woman, she's not clueless. Surely she can tell that he's not interested. So I wish they weren't making this a thing that's probably going to become an issue between Liza and Diana. It really bugs me.

I think they're overwriting her haplessness by a lot. They need to ease up.

[Julia]

I guess I'm an outlier, then, because I find it very difficult to believe that a sexually-active woman who graduated college and was married for twenty years is only just now discovering that alcohol can be an erection killer. Maybe she's never heard the phrase before.

[Snarklepuss]

Re: Diana

I think they're overwriting her haplessness by a lot. They need to ease up.

 

ITA, especially because it's beginning to look like the show is trying to justify Liza's double life by suggesting that unless a 40 + year old single woman passes herself off as a 20 something she's doomed to such pathetic desperation, and never getting the guy.  That's not a message I want this show to put across.  I already didn't like it that the jerky guy that was hitting on her in the bar suddenly excused himself when she told him her age and that she had a daughter!  A lot of younger guys are pretty intrigued by hot older women.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Thanks sinkwriter and others who answered my question.   I don't even remember this apology video and now I think I have missed an episode.

 

The character of Charles is BORING.  At least Josh seemed dynamic, but now they're writing him as a total flake.  That's pretty much how I feel like guys in their 20s are, but last season he was never like this.  (I'm echoing some comments upthread!)

 

I find this show fun and a little close to home as my husband is 12 years younger than me, we meet when I was 35 and he was 23.  At least I didn't have kids then, so it was at least a bit easier for me to seem younger than I was, though I never lied about my age.  Yeah, the little age comparison jokes get tiring, especially now that I'm 50 and he's still in his 30s.  I'm fortunate that my hair hasn't grayed and my skin is good, so the age difference isn't too noticeable.

 

Hanahope you are living my fantasy.  You need to write a novel; fiction or non-fiction who cares, it will SELL!  :)

 

Something funny is even Previously.TV does the 3 dots after I make a post (showing that it's loading).

Edited January 15, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[dcalley]

Plus Diana needs to stop acting so pathetic and get a grip on herself.  She's really embarrassing herself. 

Yes, pointedly saying "I have no gag reflex" to Charles was really awful.

[Maharincess]

I think Caitlin went abroad between high school and college, so she'd be 18. Tattoo legal but not bar legal. And the tuition is for whatever program she was on I guess. Or it was a regular junior year abroad? But then she still wouldn't be 21.

I had HUGE issues with Liza's clothes last season too. It was as if her idea of dressing young was dressing badly, and it actually made her look OLDER. But she was pretty on point in these episodes I thought. Her weird but cute little outfit in the GIF! It's just weird because Diana always looks perfect.

The dots mean the other person is typing. If you don't have a smartphone and don't know that, that's fine, but presumably Liza HAS USED HER PHONE TO TEXT PEOPLE BEFORE.

I have a smart phone and there are no dots when the other person is typing. I've had a lot of different phones and none have had dots.

[dubbel zout]

I already didn't like it that the jerky guy that was hitting on her in the bar suddenly excused himself when she told him her age and that she had a daughter!

In fairness, Liza said that specifically to get him to leave. I agree with the general point, however.

Yes, pointedly saying "I have no gag reflex" to Charles was really awful.

That was also needlessly crude, IMO. I don't mind some sexual explicitness (like when Lauren made suggestions for spicing up sex), but there was something about that comment that seemed cruel toward Diana rather than sexy or whatever they were going for.

[Julia]

On the platforms I use that have them, dots are an option.

I think the writers are taking the position that when Liza gave up her career to be a suburban SAHM, she became stupid and incurious, because clearly suburban SAHMs are a not-very-bright monolith, like hipsters are dirty and not very bright, and sexless desperate single professional women in their forties hate younger women, and it is a truth universally acknowledged that intelligent, successful young women must be in want of a blatantly disrespectful massive douche with money to give blowjobs to.

I checked. This is still a Darren Star show.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Julia

[WhosThatGirl]

I only get dots when I am texting with another iphone user. When I'm texting to someone who does not have an iphone, I do not get dots. Also, I never got dots on my previous smart phone, it was only when I got an iphone.

Someone said it above and if I wasn't being lazy right now I would find it and quote it but alas here we are, Josh is being written how he was being written in the episode where Liza thought he was dumb. It's what the writers are doing, I feel like.

I've never had a bad feeling towards Hilary Duff- actually, I sort of grew up with her, from those Lizzie Mcguire days-and I really like her in this show. I also like the friendship between her and Liza and I hope it's guienne enough that if Kelsey finds out she won't judge her or be hurt by it.

[Mu Shu]

Being a SAHM is great and all, but what about when your child is say 10? Wouldn't a person like Liza at least do volunteer work while her Maccauly Culkin looking kid is in school, or try free lance writing, copy writing, or at least a blog? The permanent SAHM is a boomer trope, not a Gen X one.

What did she do all day once the kid started first grade? That's 12 years of doing nothing, from a hiring manager perspective. I just can't buy her as someone that complacent.

Oh, and if the show decided to have Lauren's Olive Oyl looking ass fall into an open manhole while holding Caitlin's Maccauly Culkin looking asses hand, I won't be mad. Even better if Josh's dumbass falls in as well.

Please stop making Diana an uptight clueless older woman. Sam on SATC was one of the sexiest, most secure, and savvy women ever on TV, IMO. Too bad they didn't get Kim Cattrall for Diana.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Mu Shu