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S02.E01: Tattoo You / S02.E02: The Mao Function

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What did she do all day once the kid started first grade? That's 12 years of doing nothing, from a hiring manager perspective. I just can't buy her as someone that complacent.

If the house is big enough, the cleaning and yard work is plenty to keep someone busy every day if they don't hire out for someone else to do it.

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That was also needlessly crude, IMO. I don't mind some sexual explicitness (like when Lauren made suggestions for spicing up sex)

I admit, I did laugh at the confused, disturbed expression on Josh's face when Liza told him she didn't want to put his penis in a cage. LOL.

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In the first season they did make it seem like Liza was doing PTA events and stuff. I assumed she was very involved with Caitlins school events and the whatnot. But there are some stuff that this show does do that make her look silly and instead of it being "an age gap" thing.

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I never got dots on my previous smart phone, it was only when I got an iphone.

My issue is that Liza has an iphone and she didn't just switch over from a Razr to an iphone in this episode. She has had an iphone for a while and she has been shown sending and receiving texts before, so it seems ludicrous that she is just now noticing the dots and wondering what they are. Being bewildered by the dots would have been an acceptable bit of dialogue if she had never had an iphone before and had recently upgraded (I got my first iphone several years ago and there were definitely lots of new things at first). If they're going to make her clueless about things, they at least need to do it in a logical way that makes sense.

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I don't really feel like Liza didn't know what the dots meant at all, just that she gets frustrated by them like I do, in that they indicate the person is typing but then nothing happens. Or it's a short message that wouldn't have taken five minutes worth of dot-cycling to type.

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I find it interesting that some find Charles boring.  I don't.  I just think they haven't shown enough of what he's got going on yet.  I think he's got a lot going for him and probably a lot going on under the surface.  At least that's the way I'd hope the show would write him.  He'd be too good a catch to waste on being a bore!  I'm hoping they can develop his character a little more. We have seen more of Josh but despite that I think he is a total bore.  He seems shallow and one note - not enough depth for Liza especially.  I don't think all his "trappings" make him more interesting, nor his supposed refreshing youthful attitude.  Tattoos and hipster lifestyle fall flat on me.  And living with a stupid slob for a roommate doesn't exactly make me swoon either.  Charles is a publisher.  Enough said.

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Honestly, as a 39-year-old woman, the lack of punctuation in Josh's texts would turn me off too much to date him. I can't deal with the illiterate text-speak crap.

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the dots are an iphone thing, specifically an imessage thing. I HATE those things, but I do use them to my advantage when I have to. (now that I think about it, it's shown Liza has an iphone, but the show may just be also using them to show someones typing a reply)

 

Caitlin is so annoying, I don't know. Something about her just rubs me the wrong way. She just seems really bratty? self centered? Something like that.

 

I was into Josh last season, but so far, oh my gosh he's cute but no. No. Why can't he use a period? Any type of punctuation, really. 

 

the dynamics between Kelsey/Liza and Liza/Diana are still my favourite. Diana's haircut is also amazing, too. Also Maggie is also a winner. I don't know. I'm watching this one to learn or anything. It's just entertaining and I love it for that.

 

Also, Liza's navy elbow patch blazer is to die for. 

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I finally got a chance to watch these episodes. First and foremost, I agree that they're dumbing down Josh (HATE his new hairstyle, btw--what's next, a man-bun?), and although I don't want him to be endgame for Liza (can't help it, I really love Peter Hermann), I do like him and hate to see him devolving. Oh, and detest the bratty-ass daughter.

 

Some time away from this show has made me realize that while I do still like it, I can see it suffering from a lot of the issues that now set my teeth on edge whenever I happen to catch an episode of Sex and the City, like caricaturish characters (Diana, who also seems to have kind of devolved based on her behavior in S2 so far) and writing that serves an endgame to the extent that it makes the stories illogical and stupid. I know this happens with many, many books and TV shows, but it drives me absolutely batty when things are dragged out that could have been solved with a simple conversation, and it feels like that's what's happening here. And while I watched SATC and enjoyed it back in the day, that show's smug dismissal of anything not New York-hip (and I adore NYC) always bothered me. I'm sort of seeing the same mindset here, but with different generations instead of locations. While I know it's going to take Josh time to get over Liza's lie, it was really exaggerated in these two episodes, to the point where I felt like, "OMG, I'LL come to Brooklyn and tell them all, just end this!"

 

I do love the friendship between Liza and Kelsey, and I think Kelsey has become my favorite character, because she's got some actual depth--something that, I'm sorry, I don't think Darren Star's actually ever been that good at. He seems to have one fascinating character--Samantha, Kelsey--in a show, and then most of the rest are flat and/or contrived. Let's hope he's matured some since SATC and course-corrects this season. 

 

Despite my criticisms, though, I did enjoy the majority of these two episodes and am looking forward to see how things go from here.

Edited by kirinan

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the dynamics between Kelsey/Liza and Liza/Diana are still my favourite. Diana's haircut is also amazing, too. Also Maggie is also a winner.

 

I am watching this show for the women. Charles...Josh...I could care less. Just don't screw with Liza's female friendships show. Not over the stunning and cultured but dull as dirt Charles or the hot, edgy but punctuationless Josh. If getting together with Charles ruins her relationship with Diana I will be furious!

 

I don't have much problem with her lack of tech knowledge because I imagine she actually had a life, you know, like, in real life, and didn't spend her hours watching TV, staring at a computer or with her nose in her cell phone, not because she's "old" but because she had real things to do like actually talk to people and interact with people face to face.

 

As for Caitlin....not a fan. But I wonder if most of her issue with Mommy dating Josh is that she wants to date Josh. She kept bringing up how hot he was. I think Caitlin is just jealous!

 

I really hope they don't draw out this triangle/square shit with the relationships because I don't know if the charm of the rest of the show will be enough for me.

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I adored Josh last season (and was sad at the fact that he was likely not going to end up with Liza), but like everyone else mentioned, he was quite irritating during the premiere. The constant age-related comments were a bit much, and I'm guessing those are being thrown in there to show that he's still processing the age difference? 

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I adored Josh last season (and was sad at the fact that he was likely not going to end up with Liza), but like everyone else mentioned, he was quite irritating during the premiere. The constant age-related comments were a bit much, and I'm guessing those are being thrown in there to show that he's still processing the age difference? 

This is how I feel.  Someone said it is like the episode where the perception Liza was having was that "Oh no, I am dating a 20 something year old who is nothing like my previous dating experiences, we are so different" but that was just the perception Liza was having, it wasn't the reality of what was happening or at least that's what the episode ended on. However, now it does seem to be the reality.  Maybe the problem is  now we are viewing the age difference though Josh's perception but Josh's viewpoint isn't our focal point so they aren't showcasing this well. They should work on this.

 

I just think the writers are doing this because they want tension in Josh/Liza, and Liza falls for Charles. But the thing is, would Liza go there? She seems well aware that Dianna has feelings for him, it's been obvious and Liza isn't an idiot. If anything, I would impressed if this is a red herring/misdirection and that some new character comes around and Liza's attention diverts over there. But that's unlikely. 

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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I just think the writers are doing this because they want tension in Josh/Liza, and Liza falls for Charles. But the thing is, would Liza go there? She seems well aware that Dianna has feelings for him, it's been obvious and Liza isn't an idiot. If anything, I would impressed if this is a red herring/misdirection and that some new character comes around and Liza's attention diverts over there. But that's unlikely. 

 

I think the show is probably going to play with the "will she or won't she" angle as Liza feels pulled between Josh and Charles, plus the guilt she'll feel over her growing feelings for Charles because of both Josh and Diana.  I somehow can't see the show making her end up with either one, though, so perhaps you're right and the goal is somewhere down the line for a 3rd man to come into the picture.  I had a gut feeling after watching this episode that it just may be her ex.  I didn't say anything about it because I thought people would tell me I was crazy - And then you wrote this post.

Edited by Snarklepuss

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"Caitlin!" in a shocked tone and nothing more is not an okay parental response when your daughter says something offensive to you. Can't stand the daughter after pulling that shit, I'd have knocked her ass down for real if that came out of her mouth. I don't expect that on here of course, but should've been a lot more than one disparaging tone to display your displeasure. Caitlin can be upset if she wants, but degrading your mother by referring to a sex act is the opposite of okay and Liza needed to do a heck of a lot more than she did. For me, she'd still be picking herself off that loft floor. Sheesh! Can't stand spoiled, entitled children. Didn't like how it happened at all that she ran off to her dad and made snide remarks about her mom, but glad it seems like she'll be gone again for the season in large part.

 

I see several mentions about getting upset about the tattoo. Caitlin is not in college, she's in high school. She did a year abroad of high school. She's not 18, so she shouldn't be getting tattoos, it is illegal in NY to do so. They tried to remind the audience yet again of her age and high school status in the episode when Maggie mentioned the plan is to get Caitlin the college. They've made this very clear, but I think most people correctly correlate study abroad with college not high school so it's hard to remember.

 

And no doubt this spoiled brat will expect to go to whatever college she wants and feel entitled to attend no matter the cost and expect her parents to pay. After the way she talked to Liza, I'd toss her a scholarship book and a financial aid guide, wish her luck and call it a day. Liza's working her butt off to keep the kid's life the same as before her father gambled everything they had away, the least Caitlin can do is be respectful towards her and not act like Liza's evil and the father didn't ruin everything.

 

Not remotely feeling Josh. Haven't for some time. I'm okay if that's the game plan for now, but not for the long term. I'm all about Charles.

 

Definitely not a fan of what seems to be more Lauren this season. Small doses are what works for that character. Her in the loft constantly feels like it will be overkill.

Edited by JasmineFlower
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If Liza can continue the ruse if being 26 to keep the job she apparently always wanted, she would be an idiot to jeopardize it by going after Charles. Don't shit where you eat and all. Never mind she's written to be an incredibly naive adult, so she's probably going to be stupid enough to go there.

Josh is dumb and has an idiot roommate who doesn't flush the toilet. Split the difference and find a 32 yo insurance salesman.

I am finding all the characters are grating already. Liza and her unbelievable naïveté (She acted like an insecure child about the supposed break up, IMO, lets her brat walk over her, and scuttled around the office like a scared rabbit when Diana barked) overwhelms any charm she has. I think all the hype about the show was generated by the show, and won't go for another season.

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But then, all these plots depend on these people being beaten with the idiot stick until it splinters.

For instance: You've asked your girlfriend to meet you at a local hookup spot. You're offered the opportunity to extensively tattoo underage girls who are wandering around Williamsburg at night instead. You don't call, you don't write, and when she contacts you to ask why she's sitting alone in the hookup spot you said to meet her in, you eke out four words with your thumbs to explain the situation.

Now, you're at a party, and a friend of a friend of the woman you left hanging (the one who roofied the two of you with a schedule one hallucinogen at a large party full of strangers) is drunkenly interrogating you about the intimate details of your personal life, like, in front of people. And you have to bail, because it's killing you that you can't open up and really communicate, because you owe it to the realness of your relationship with these people you barely know to Tell Them All so they'll be Completely Informed.

I'm mentally treating it like a french farce in gif form on that tumblr thing the kids do. It's actually kind of fun that way. Maybe Kelsey can publish it.

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Well, bland to the point of blending into the woodwork Kelsey does have an imprint, whatever that is. I was trying to bleach my mind of the nude sight of the reptilian and probably morally bankrupt moron Lauren to pay much attention. Darren Star should take a page from SATC and have her drunkenly fall off a balcony.

And no one ever questioned an ambiguous text message.

Fat guy in Liza's robe wasn't even funny. Diana's obsession over a make coworker is unrealistic (she's trying to keep her power and wouldn't be idiotic enough to shit where she eats).

For a show that boasts shooting in NYC, they sure make it bland and uninspiring. For all its faults, SATC made NYC a magical place. Well, except for Brooklyn.

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I think Diana is based on the Joan Crawford character in a legendarily soapy movie called The Best of Everything, which is mostly about how if you don't get out of publishing and get married your ovaries shrivel and you're doomed to spend the rest of your life acting out your self-loathing on shiny young secretaries from Smith and Vassar.

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Diana doesn't have dibs on him just because she's gaga over him, especially because he obviously has zero interest in her.  So I don't think Liza owes her anything on that score, as hurtful as Diana may find it.

 

Ah, but Diana can make Liza's work life miserable if Liza and Charles were ever to get together. I think it's an interesting dynamic -- mixing the professional and personal. The fact that the second person in that triangle is also Liza's boss gives Liza extra incentive (and another barrier) for her not getting together with Charles.

 

I agree with the poster who doesn't care who Liza ends up with. I like both guys too, although I admit I like Charles slightly less now that I've seen him on those new detergent ads. Just...takes me out of the moment, a little.

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You also have to throw yourself out of a moving car if you get pregnant before getting married.

Only if the putative father tries to kidnap you for an abortion. Otherwise you still have to jump off a fire escape for having premarital sex, but the timeline is way looser.

Edited by Julia
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Caitlin is not in college, she's in high school. She did a year abroad of high school.

 

What's weird is, the description for the episode on my DVR says she's home from college.

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Ah, but Diana can make Liza's work life miserable if Liza and Charles were ever to get together. I think it's an interesting dynamic -- mixing the professional and personal. The fact that the second person in that triangle is also Liza's boss gives Liza extra incentive (and another barrier) for her not getting together with Charles.

 

That wouldn't stop her from going underground with him, especially since she's an employee and supposedly so much younger than him, he might not want their affair to be public knowledge.  But I think she might feel too guilty and conflicted to do that anyway.  And she may not want to risk revealing her real age to him either.

What's weird is, the description for the episode on my DVR says she's home from college.

 

Wikipedia says she's in college too.

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I wonder if we'll see any real conversation about the age difference, now that the cat's out of the bag. Yes, we've seen Josh making immature, unnecessary comments about Liza's age several times now, but I'm just curious when either she or Josh will start talking about the real potential issues with such a big age gap. Part of the reason Liza revealed her true age was because the two of them were getting serious, and he said he loved her. So now that the initial shock of the lie has worn off, I'm curious to see if they'll explore the consequences of the actual age gap -- especially since it now frames Liza's little quirks in an entirely new way for Josh. For example, that scene where Liza was ripping into Josh about college -- her age would probably put that entire situation in a new light for Josh, because it would almost seem motherly. 

 

I also wonder if, now that the truth is out, Liza will do any reconsidering of her own about the long-term longevity of her relationship with Josh. She doesn't seem too concerned right now, and seemed pretty upset at the thought of a break-up, but I wonder if part of her doesn't realize that a break-up is, in some ways, likely inevitable.

 

Regardless, I hope that if they break up, it's not because they've made Josh an idiot {he's more annoying this season than before}, but because there are real issues for them to resolve/discuss/figure out now that their relationship is serious and both of them know about the age difference.

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Wikipedia says she's in college too.

 

I believe it. But I can go there now and change it. Clearly whoever did it was not from the show. And show descriptions are marketing people, not from the show. She's definitely in high school.

 

In case this is unknown to others and people are thinking, a year abroad in high school? That's a TV thing for sure. My terrible college roommate during my freshman year spent her senior year of high school abroad, so it does actually happen. Have no clue if that's a thing more are doing now or not. Not many were then, and she wouldn't shut up about it as it was the only thing she had to talk about (she didn't have a lot going on).

 

ETA - Just checked Wikipedia. Yikes! There a lot of inaccuracies in that description, not just about the daughter being in college. Definitely not submitted or double checked often by the show or network. I submitted some changes.

Edited by JasmineFlower
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I believe it. But I can go there now and change it. Clearly whoever did it was not from the show. And show descriptions are marketing people, not from the show. She's definitely in high school.

Doesn't mean she's not 18. Lots of people turn 18 during their senior year.

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If the house is big enough, the cleaning and yard work is plenty to keep someone busy every day if they don't hire out for someone else to do it.

And there's a whole lot more to do too, just because a kid is in school doesn't mean a stay at home mom is doing nothing all day.

I know this isn't what the previous poster was implying but a lot of people do.

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White Castles are bad enough, but if Caitlyn hasn't had meat in months and then has White Castle...

 

Ugh, seriously. Vomit.

 

re: The Dots (dun dun dunnnnn), it occurred to me that while Liza is probably a perfectly experienced texter, she probably wasn't doing a lot of "waiting with bated breath" texting prior to her relationship with Josh. She might never have noted The Dots of Indecision before this.

 

I'm glad this silly little show is back :)

Edited by girlplease
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Doesn't mean she's not 18. Lots of people turn 18 during their senior year.

 

Sure. But they made it quite clear last season she was underage and overseas and not much time has passed on the show despite it being for us almost a year since the first season.

Edited by JasmineFlower

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I think the new Josh is not so much dumbed down as he is suddenly much more immature and insecure. The only way the Liza/Josh match worked last season was because Josh was unusually sensitive and self-assured, which Liza liked and was attracted to. Whenever the couple was together, Liza's giddiness seemed to make her younger, while Josh's steadiness with her made it seem that he was an actual grown-up. Now he's regressed to his teen years, imo. And he looks rougher, too; last season he was almost clean-cut for a 20-something hipster tat artist. With the cosmetic and personality changes, I think Lisa and Josh are looking much more mother/son than a couple. Not feeling them so far.

I think Caitlin's reaction to her mother's dating Josh was understandable and expected. If Caitlin had said, "cool, mom," I wouldn't have believed that. I didn't think Caitlin was over-the-top at all.

I also think Caitlin was probably just basically jealous and insecure. Her mother is dating a hot guy much closer in age to Cait. He had just tattooed her under her boob, too. I'm sure she was physically excited and enamored by that session with him too, especially if Caitlin doesn't have that much experience with guys. If Caitlin was in love right now, with a serious bf of her own, she'd still be shocked at Liza's news, but I don't think she would have immediately left for dad's house.

The writers probably do have plans for an attempt at a Liza/Charles hookup, based on an extended promo that TVLand runs a lot. The actors briefly talk about their characters, and Peter Hermann has an impish grin and does a thumbs-up as he looks into the camera and says, "Team Charles."

Why are the writers making Josh so loyal to Kelsey all of a sudden? It's an annoying and unnecessary retcon.

And TOO MUCH Lauren!! The character grates. From the previews, it looks like Lauren will be way too prominent this season.

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If Liza can continue the ruse if being 26 to keep the job she apparently always wanted, she would be an idiot to jeopardize it by going after Charles. Don't shit where you eat and all. Never mind she's written to be an incredibly naive adult, so she's probably going to be stupid enough to go there.

Josh is dumb and has an idiot roommate who doesn't flush the toilet. Split the difference and find a 32 yo insurance salesman.

 

Lol! You are great for this comment.

 

Personally, I think that Diana would/could be Liza's greatest ally if she knew the truth. I don't like seeing her fluttering around the office like some dewy-eyed schoolgirl around Charles.

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Personally, I think that Diana would/could be Liza's greatest ally if she knew the truth. I don't like seeing her fluttering around the office like some dewy-eyed schoolgirl around Charles.

I'm not crazy about any aspect of Charles being flirtatious with (what he believes is) a 26yo admin who he has babysitting his children. That's several gourmet flavors of inappropriate.

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I agree, I just don't like Diana having to stoop to schoolgirl tactics to attract her boss's unwanted attention when she's already a powerful, successful businesswoman. I don't think Liza would be good with any man they've shown so far. They're either too immature (Josh), too much of a jerk (Kelsey's boyfriend) or off-limits (Charles). They need to add another secondary or tertiary male character that comes with little baggage given all that's on her plate.

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I like the actors and setting of this show, but I find it insulting to women . Actually, it's also insulting to men, but especially to women.

First of all, do we need a show where women are competing for men like a bad 1950's movie? Liza's boss is pretty and rich, but because she's never been married every show puts her down or turns her into a fool.

I like Sutton Foster, she's gorgeous, but sorry, I work with 20 something year olds, and she does not look or act 26, and that's not a bad thing.

Too bad this show with decent actors. And not a bad premise resorted to dated concepts of women. Where has Darren Star been living - a time capsule??

It's ageist, sexist and just plain degrading to women.

And sorry, Caitlyn is a kid. If I came home and saw my mom like a teen and making out with people close to my age, I might have been much more upset than she was.

Liza is just stupid and silly acting . I know many stay at home moms, they don't act like desperate bimbos . I also know single middle aged women that are not out to get every man, or to hue the younger women.

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I just binge watched the show and I think I love Josh's character. I think he's behaving realistically about a guy who's been deeply betrayed by a lie at the basis of their relationship. I'm surprised they didn't stay broken up for longer or that they even got back together at all. I don't think I could forgive someone for lying to me like that.

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On 1/15/2016 at 6:00 PM, Mu Shu said:

Please stop making Diana an uptight clueless older woman. Sam on SATC was one of the sexiest, most secure, and savvy women ever on TV, IMO. Too bad they didn't get Kim Cattrall for Diana.

 

Nah. I don't think Kim Catrall has the comedic chops for the role of Diana. Miriam Shor is perfection in the role.

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