S04.E10: No Strings Attached

[OnceSane]

Tom Schwartz makes plans to propose to Katie, but Lisa worries that his complicated proposal scheme will backfire. Meanwhile, Jax makes moves on Lala; Sandoval tries to correct a big mistake; and the SUR crew plans a tropical vacation.

[nexxie]

The proposal was actually pretty cute and unique - hope they're very happy together!

[Ubiquitous]

That poor man got his proposal hijacked for Shwartzie's!

Almost all the SUR wait staff is going go Hawai'i on 48 hours notice? I'm calling "shenanigans! " on that.

[Box305]

That poor man got his proposal hijacked for Shwartzie's!

Almost all the SUR wait staff is going go Hawai'i on 48 hours notice? I'm calling "shenanigans! " on that.

 

I thought it was a week's notice which is still shitty to do to your employer. 

 

The proposal made me tear up, but I think it's my PMS week and everything is making me cry. The vine even made me cry. Poor raccoon. https://vine.co/v/ibFH7bQVaHK

[SFoster21]

Waiting tables must pay very well if they can jet off to Hawaii.

The engagement scene was sweet and the couple seemed truly happy.

Edited January 5, 2016 by SFoster21

[BogoGog24]

I think I had that same "allergy" as Ariana during the proposal scene. *sniff* Probably the single most heartwarming moment we'll ever see on this show. I see its business as usual next week. Tom really convinced me for a second that another proposal was taking place at the same time lol.

Every scene with Jax in it I just kept going "Ew he's so gross." What do these women see in him? He's so icky to me, he looks like he constantly needs a shower. In Purell.

I loved it when James was planning for someone to cover him for a trip on which he hadn't been invited but just "assumed" at some point he'd be asked.

I love Scheana calling out Ariana on her shit.

[WhosThatGirl]

Shut up DJ Muppet! No one invited you, you can't just assume you are going. And I thought Tom hated him too? When did they become friends again? Also, damn it, I teared up at the proposal too. 

[HunterHunted]

The proposal was really very sweet. Just when you are ready to kick Schwartz to the curb, he reminds you that he can be adorable. I can see why Katie has put up with him for so long.

I love how James just assumes that because he's part of the cast that he's automatically going to Hawaii. Does he have short term memory problems and has forgotten that most of cast hates him? Not even Kristen thinks that and that bitch is crazy.

I would have rather watched the ballad of Faith and Max than "Ain't nobody I'm feelin' like I'm feelin' you: the love square." Now that Brittany is in the mix this whole thing gets too nauseating for words. Plus, I wish someone would call Lala out on her bullshit flirting for camera time nonsense.

[Chicago85]

Did anybody catch James' reaction after Lala said she was going to watch around naked with a coconut?! It was the most awkward, red-faced, choking chuckle followed by an uncomfortable amount of silence. What the hell what that about?

[Silo]

James! She's just not that into you.

Arianna, everyone of these chucklefucks would punch their own mother in the face for screentime. This is like Stassi Part 2 where she realizes her "friends" getting to be on being on TV, getting wasted, and not "ruining the vibe" is 500% more important to them than your "friendship".

Did anybody catch James' reaction after Lala said she was going to watch around naked with a coconut?! It was the most awkward, red-faced, choking chuckle followed by an uncomfortable amount of silence. What the hell what that about?

I watched it with subtitles. He also goes, "Mmmmmm". Super creepy and awkward.

[ryebread]

The proposal was really very sweet. Just when you are ready to kick Schwartz to the curb, he reminds you that he can be adorable. I can see why Katie has put up with him for so long.

 

Agreed. But I still think she could do better. He's adorable though not in a good-husband-material kind of way.  But if it works for them I wish them all the happiness in the world.

 

I just have a feeling that all these things that seem so endearing to her now will bug her once they're married.  And someone will remind her, and she won't be the first to be told this:  "Well you knew that about him before you married him."

[WhosThatGirl]

I did love how Araina was all, "these people hold grudges for no reason but the one person they should hold grudges on, Kristen, they are willing to forgive" and I Was like.., "Um, you hang out with Jax every night, Arainia?"  Also, Arainia, look at where your tv checks are coming from. 

[EverybodyIsACritic]

I am shamefully joining the Proposal Trail of Tears. It was so sweet, with Sandoval watching proudly.

Watching James scour the schedule and then tell Lisa he was going to Hawaii-very uncomfortable. It's as though Kristin, James, Lala, Faith, etc. are all throwing elbows in an effort to be second string Friends Of Housewives (Atlanta, I'm side-eying you).

I hope Brittany's moving boxes are full of Ebola suits, bless her heart.

Edited January 5, 2016 by EverybodyIsACritic

[HunterHunted]

Agreed. But I still think she could do better. He's adorable though not in a good-husband-material kind of way.  But if it works for them I wish them all the happiness in the world.

 

I just have a feeling that all these things that seem so endearing to her now will bug her once they're married.  And someone will remind her, and she won't be the first to be told this:  "Well you knew that about him before you married him."

I agree completely. It was also interesting to hear Biff from wherever gleeful remind Katie on WWHL that she looks great and that Schwartz was not a dude for the long haul.

[yourmomiseasy]

Did anybody catch James' reaction after Lala said she was going to watch around naked with a coconut?! It was the most awkward, red-faced, choking chuckle followed by an uncomfortable amount of silence. What the hell what that about?

 

It was so gross.  I had to get up and leave the room for a while because I just can't with James and the camera spent way too long on him making gross faces.

[yourmomiseasy]

That poor man got his proposal hijacked for Shwartzie's!

 

 

I am 99.9% sure those were actors/mactors and part of the proposal since Schwartz took the ring box from the guy and it had Katie's ring in it and Schwartz introduced the girl to Karie as someone he had a modeling job with the previous week and called the guy Oscar and thanked him like he knew him.

Edited January 5, 2016 by yourmomiseasy

[WhosThatGirl]

Yes, I think they were actors too. I think they were some of the people who Schwarz thanked on instagram tonight- he thanked a lot of people on his group photo from the dinner that he posted tonight and I believe that they were included in that. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Wow, Brittany sure does seem like a grinning idiot, doesn't she?  I mean, seriously, this chick has gotta be a total moron, right?  Or is she really sly & maybe playing Jax to get on TV & jump-start some kind of career -- in reality, or some kind of show-biz/"entertainment" thing, or porn or who knows what?  Nah, I think she's just a moron.  

 

Man, everytime I see Jax now, I wince & shudder.  He's just so fuckin' repulsive & gross in pretty much every way possible.  Ew.

[ScoobieDoobs]

I luved Kristen calling Lala a skank.  Maybe cuz it's so totally Stassi of her to do.  And yet I'm not even sure Lala is a skank.  In fact, I bet she isn't at all.  But she certainly is trying hard to make us think she's one.  Er, why?  For cam time?  Idk, pretending to be a skank seems so desperate & ick to me.  I'd respect her so much more if she actually was one.  But nah, me thinks she's a fake & a fraud.  Everything with Lala is a put-on for the cams, including (and especially) the icky flirting with Jax & James.

 

Anyone notice how nice Kristen's apartment looks?  Don't get me wrong, it ain't Yolanda Foster's fancy schmancy joint in The Carlyle, but it looked nice.  It's certainly looks better than the cramped dumps Jax & Sandoval live in.  Um, how does she afford that -- with no job?  Bravo dough?  Hmmmmm.

 

So is Schwartzie on a 10 year engagement plan?  Oh Katie, hun.  Don't count me as one who was teary-eyed at this engagement.  Actually, I do kinda like both of 'em, but any bets on when they really get married?  When Slade & Gretchen get married?  Well, anyhoo, the ring looked very nice, from what I could tell from a blurry distance.

[Ubiquitous]

I thought it was a week's notice which is still shitty to do to your employer. 

I am pretty sure Jax told successful businesswoman Lisa Vanderbucks that they were leaving in a couple days for a week in Hawai'i (not including the weekend b/c they couldn't afford it (huh?)) and she was whining about having just made their schedule and how they'd be seriously understaffed with everyone important (sorry, DJ Muppet Baby!) gone but hoped they could find people to cover for them.

 

Yeah, like that would happen in real life!

[BogoGog24]

Did anybody catch James' reaction after Lala said she was going to watch around naked with a coconut?! It was the most awkward, red-faced, choking chuckle followed by an uncomfortable amount of silence. What the hell what that about?

I think (hope) it was editing. It looked like an entire chunk of conversation had been edited out and they purposely left in only his dumb reactions. Just a guess. Or else James is just really that creepy. He also looked mega weird in that scene, maybe it was the lighting or angle? When he was chatting with Brittany I was reminded how he can be seen as charming but then that awkward scene with Lala threw all that out the window.

Their trip was scheduled from Tuesday to Friday with them returning Friday night, in time to work I guess.

Edited January 5, 2016 by BogoGog24

[Ubiquitous]

In addition to be being sweaty/greasy, I noticed Jax's face was a deep red. Is that like the deal with Orangutans' butts turning red when they are in heat?

I cannot figure out LaLa and Britney, specifically why they're banging Jax. Ick. My apologies, I meant "making out". I s that what the hipster kids call it now? I couldn't help but notice DJ Muppet Baby and them saying that's what they did.

ETA: Her name is Britney, not Gretchen.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Ubiquitous

[ghoulina]

Awwww, the proposal was cute. And very clever! I was just as stunned and confused as everyone else. I found it hilarious how Schwartz was literally about to puke or pass out beforehand. He really DOES seem to have panic attacks. 

 

(Also loved his fauxposal with Lisa! Scwartz is just adorable.)

 

Wow, Ariana sure got Tom into the tattoo removal shop STAT. Too bad it's going to take more than a year to remove it. After hearing that, I might have just let it go. But we know full well she won't. 

 

Honestly, I'd be more concerned with removing those Beetle Juice shorts from his wardrobe than the ugly A on his ass. 

 

 

Lala and Jax....can't decide who disgusts me more. They're just both so....sloppy. Lala is trying to act all offended because she JUST found out that Brittany is actually Jax's girlfriend. Oh please. You knew. And Jax is clearly not meant for even a hint of monogamy. Brittany is either really stupid, really insecure, or really wanting to get her toe in the famewhore water. Or maybe all three. 

 

Jax is just really cowardly, though. He tells Kristen that he'll fight for her to come to Hawaii, then makes the girls deliver the news that she just really can't come. Loser. I am still with Sandoval on the issue, however. I would NOT want my ex on my birthday trip. Period. It's fine if others want to hang out with her, just do it on another trip. 

 

My favorite discoveries from this episode:

 

The Toms met on Craigslist!!!

 

Jax cleaned out H&M for his trip. Of course he did.

[TattleTeeny]

I am 99.9% sure those were actors/mactors and part of the proposal since Schwartz took the ring box from the guy and it had Katie's ring in it and Schwartz introduced the girl to Karie as someone he had a modeling job with the previous week and called the guy Oscar and thanked him like he knew him.

 

I thought it was clear that this was a performance; they were all talking to the other "proposal" people afterward. Plus, who would be that good-natured about a stranger physically taking a ring and using it to propose to his own GF, haha! Not a bad plan though, if you could pull it off, I suppose.

 

It's certainly looks better than the cramped dumps Jax & Sandoval live in.  Um, how does she afford that -- with no job?  Bravo dough?  Hmmmmm.

 

With the frequent references to perfectly ordinary-looking garden apartments (disregarding, of course, the occupants' housekeeping skills, or lack thereof) being "dumps," I'm getting the feeling that people here must have had a bunch more money to work with than I had when I was in my 20s and 30s. Those places look pretty par for the course where I'm from, even for people older than the VPR cast, and I am not ashamed to say I've lived in many that were far less nice and in questionable neighborhoods, yet still completely acceptable for North Jersey, which isn't cheap (a studio can run you close to $1,000/month). Kristen's doesn't look all that different to anyone else's to me either. 

 

Also, Brittany looks like Blair Warner. I said once that her face was, IMO, hideous. I changed my mind last night, though I still don't view her as a knockout; I think it's the lack of upper lip.

Edited January 5, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[bichonblitz]

Jeez, what's the big deal about the tattoo on Tom's ass. Nobody can see it. Except when he pulls down his pants for the camera. Chill, Ariana. 

 

How long do you thing the engagement will last? Years? Another storyline. 

 

I don't get Lala hanging all over Jax, does she want to fuck him or not? And is Brittany real? I  mean, is she really going to live with Jax and pretend to be a couple with him? She moves all the way from Kentucky with no job so I guess Jax is going to support her. Ok, this is so believable. 

 

Lisa Vanderbucks must have a huge staff to allow these people to constantly take vacations...

 

The Toms met on Craigslist!!!

I know! They are genuine friends. It's cute. 

[Duke2801]

Ubiquitous, on 04 Jan 2016 - 10:23 PM, said:

That poor man got his proposal hijacked for Shwartzie's!

Almost all the SUR wait staff is going go Hawai'i on 48 hours notice? I'm calling "shenanigans! " on that.

 

I couldn't tell if this was serious or sarcasm.  Just in case it's the former... No, no "couple" got their proposal hijacked.  It was all a part of Schwartz's proposal plan.

 

And speaking of that-yes it was darn sweet!  I like the two of them.  I mean, no way in hell would I, personally, be able to put up with Schwartz because he seems mostly clueless and directionless. You just know that Katie is the one fixing the toilets and killing the bugs in that relationship! 

 

BUT, at the same time, I disagree that once they are married, all of Schwartz's idiosyncrasies or habits will start to bug her.  They've lived together for a few years now.  I don't think there are any surprises there.

 

I 100% agree that Lala is only flirting with Jax for screen time. No way is she actually interested in some greasy, gross professional bartender who is 10 years her senior.  Whether production cooked up the little "love triangle" storyline between Jax, Lala and James - or they came up with it on their own - its all beyond laughable and ridiculous.

[politichick]

I, too, thought the proposal was charming and have to give Schwartz credit for coming up with the idea. Not so sure Katie will stand for a long-term engagement. I know he's ditzy, but there's something about him that leads me to believe that he comes from a more affluent socio-economic background than the rest and although his family is tolerating this "phase" he's going through, they will ultimately expect Tom to come to his senses and join the family firm or get a real job. At least that's what I hope. James's parents also will tolerate this bus boy stuff only for so long, too. 

 

I have to say, although I think James is a complete asshat, I felt a tiny bit sorry for him when Lisa told him he isn't invited to Hawaii. Maybe the rejection will teach him a little lesson in humility. I know he's just 24, but he really needs to grow up.

[Primetimer]

With a Tom Schwartz moment that may put you in a dumb, goofy, happy mood.

Read the story

[ghoulina]

So is Schwartzie on a 10 year engagement plan?  Oh Katie, hun.

 

 

I thought he actually toasted to a four year engagement at the end. And then Katie made an annoyed faced, followed by a face of acceptance. I mean, we all know it. It's not like Mr. Panic Attack is going to walk down the aisle in a timely fashion.

[HunterHunted]

The recap reminded me of Faith's question to Lala about what exactly Lala finds sexually attractive about James. I literally expended all of the ha-ha's that I'd been allotted for the day when I heard that.

I've never seen a lighted ring box. It did help to make the ring look magical every time Schwartz opened it to show off the ring.

[Vivigirl10]

So much goodness in this episode, as usual:

 

A flashback to the chunky sweater parking lot fight!  VPR at it's literal finest!!!

 

Old pics of the Tom's through the years!  Flatiron complimenting Schwartz, "that is so Top Shop".....couture for sure!

 

Awwww......I was both surprised and touched at the proposal.  I'm happy for Katie since it seems to be what she truly wants and has waited for.  

[Ubiquitous]

The recap reminded me of Faith's question to Lala about what exactly Lala finds sexually attractive about James. I literally expended all of the ha-ha's that I'd been allotted for the day when I heard that.

I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but why is Faith there? All I ever see her do is wiping water spots off glassware and wiping the laminated menus and receiving exposition.

[SFoster21]

I, too, thought the proposal was charming and have to give Schwartz credit for coming up with the idea. Not so sure Katie will stand for a long-term engagement. I know he's ditzy, but there's something about him that leads me to believe that he comes from a more affluent socio-economic background than the rest and although his family is tolerating this "phase" he's going through, they will ultimately expect Tom to come to his senses and join the family firm or get a real job. At least that's what I hope. James's parents also will tolerate this bus boy stuff only for so long, too.

I have to say, although I think James is a complete asshat, I felt a tiny bit sorry for him when Lisa told him he isn't invited to Hawaii. Maybe the rejection will teach him a little lesson in humility. I know he's just 24, but he really needs to grow up.

They're in LA hoping to break into show biz. I'll contend that they are now on a television show for three years. They may not be Jersey Shore famous, but they undoubtedly have money-making opportunities at this time.

[heatherchandler]

I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but why is Faith there? All I ever see her do is wiping water spots off glassware and wiping the laminated menus and receiving exposition.

 

I think Max (Lisa's son) has a thing for her, or maybe they are dating.  That was what seemed to be hinted at.  But I thought he had a girlfriend - a friend of Kristen's.  I thought I saw that somewhere online.

 

I want to pin her bangs back - she is pretty but those bangs are really bothering me.

[Shelby]

It was so funny why Tom showed the doctor his tattoo, and she flatly said, "You don't need to bend over." Flashback to him showing everyone the flaming A and he really bent over.

I hope that was Tom's personal Brita pitcher he was drinking out of, but even if it was, ew.

Lala constantly referring to herself in the third person bugs me so much.

Congrats to Katie for finally getting engaged like she's wanted for so long. I wish these two and their cute pup a long life of happiness.

Eta: I was embarrassed to post this, but I cried too watching the proposal.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Shelby

[MeloraH]

Re: the savvines of the cast: I totally agree that what makes this show is that they're in on some of the joke but not the whole joke. It's a delicate balance.

[TattleTeeny]

I hope that was Tom's personal Brita pitcher he was drinking out of, but even if it was, ew.

 

And also...what? How in the hell is that easier than getting a glass? I have that thing too and it would in no way make sense to try to pucker up for a sip out of that spout! We could even see him struggling!

Edited January 5, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[ScoobieDoobs]

It was so funny why Tom showed the doctor his tattoo, and she flatly said, "You don't need to bend over." Flashback to him showing everyone the flaming A and he really bent over.

 

Sandoval shot her a dirty look.  Clearly he does not like to be told NOT to bend over.  Yup.

[Chrissytd]

Schwartz's proposal was cute and sweet. For a second, I seriously thought that the other was proposing too.

James is such a try hard. I don't know where he got the idea that he was going on the trip given that he is exactly friends with the host(s).

It must suck being a SUR worker that isn't a cast member.

[worleybird]

Since this was primarily a feel good episode, I guess no After Show this week?

[OnceSane]

The proposal was great, I loved it.

Lala is a basic try-hard, I really hope this is her only season because she ain't working for me.

[Shelby]

Aren't pear-shaped diamond rings worn with the point facing up? It seemed like Tom put the ring on Katie upside down.

[walnutqueen]

Ubiquitous, on 05 Jan 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but why is Faith there? All I ever see her do is wiping water spots off glassware and wiping the laminated menus and receiving exposition.

 

Who's Faith? 

[ghoulina]

James is such a try hard. I don't know where he got the idea that he was going on the trip given that he is exactly friends with the host(s).

 

He must think he's a Housewife, where they generally all go on all the trips. Nope. Sorry, James!

[bichonblitz]

Aren't pear-shaped diamond rings worn with the point facing up? It seemed like Tom put the ring on Katie upside down.

I wear mine facing down. It looks good that way when it' in a set with the wedding ring. Personal preference.

[yourmomiseasy]

I thought it was clear that this was a performance; they were all talking to the other "proposal" people afterward. Plus, who would be that good-natured about a stranger physically taking a ring and using it to propose to his own GF, haha! Not a bad plan though, if you could pull it off, I suppose.

 

With the frequent references to perfectly ordinary-looking garden apartments (disregarding, of course, the occupants' housekeeping skills, or lack thereof) being "dumps," I'm getting the feeling that people here must have had a bunch more money to work with than I had when I was in my 20s and 30s. Those places look pretty par for the course where I'm from, even for people older than the VPR cast, and I am not ashamed to say I've lived in many that were far less nice and in questionable neighborhoods, yet still completely acceptable for North Jersey, which isn't cheap (a studio can run you close to $1,000/month). Kristen's doesn't look all that different to anyone else's to me either. 

 

 

I can only be 99.9% sure of anything these chucklefucks do, even in instances that seem pretty cut and dry.  

 

I think Kristin's apartment is nicer than everyone else's though.  It seems like she's paying extra for a top floor or corner unit because it seems light and airy.  She also seems to have just put it together more coherently.  I mean compare her decor to Scheena's weird wedding poster gallery and froo-froo princess bedroom.  None of them are living in Villa Rosa, or even just Lisa's closet, but Kristin's place does look nicer than everyone else's.  I do, however, think that they are all living in pretty standard apartments and no one is squatting in a flop house.  

[pbutler111]

Why is Kristin still on this show? Wasn't she fired? And what, exactly, does she do for a living? Does being a TV show hanger-on actually pay so much that she doesn't feel the need to hold an actual job?

[DrSparkles]

I'd like some deets on that ring! She was pretty!!

[ScoobieDoobs]

With the frequent references to perfectly ordinary-looking garden apartments (disregarding, of course, the occupants' housekeeping skills, or lack thereof) being "dumps," I'm getting the feeling that people here must have had a bunch more money to work with than I had when I was in my 20s and 30s. Those places look pretty par for the course where I'm from, even for people older than the VPR cast, and I am not ashamed to say I've lived in many that were far less nice and in questionable neighborhoods, yet still completely acceptable for North Jersey, which isn't cheap (a studio can run you close to $1,000/month). Kristen's doesn't look all that different to anyone else's to me either. 

 

Comparisons to Jersey places are pretty irrelevant.  I could bring up studios here in Manhattan (in crumbling roach-infested walk-ups) going for over 2 thou a month, as a point of comparison to another similarly expensive market, but whatevs.  Everyone knows LA is expensive.  Not exactly earth-shattering news.  But it is interesting (to me) how people who don't make much manage to live there.  I don't get the impression any of 'em have been affected much (at least as far as how & where they live) by the additional Bravo income.  Maybe none of 'em are still making all that much from Bravo -- or not enough to alter their lives?

 

I have taken a close eye to their places cuz they all kinda fascinate me.  There must be a reason Sandoval stays in his place.  It could be affordable rent (good enough reason for most of us).  Maybe it's in a good location -- in WeHo?  The sloppiness of his place could be misleading.  Because of the always tight shots of his place, it seems smallish to me.  But again, this might be misleading.  But Jax's place?  His kitchen is tiny & looks awful.  And yeah, I could afford better than that at 36  & I'm hardly a 1-percenter & never will be.  Anyway, I'm merely observing.  I wouldn't judge Jax or anyone else by the size of where they live.  Seems ridiculous to me.  No, Jax is pretty repugnant for too many other reasons.

 

Kristen's place puzzles me.  It does not look like Jax's or Sandoval's.  No, it's not ordinary, in that the kitchen looks to be renovated very nicely.  That could be because it's new.  They show an outside shot of a building (def NOT a garden apt. building) when they show Kristen's scenes now.  This could be misleading.  It may not be her building.  And when James spat on her door, Kristen said she'd call for security.  Was this more of her crazy babble?  Or did she mean she has a doorman that she'd call?  Have no idea, but if she has a doorman, clearly this is NOT an ordinary garden apartment she lives in.

 

Probably what I'm most puzzled by with Kristen is not especially her well-kept, newish-looking, but mostly ordinary apartment.  I'm still wondering how she can afford to live there without a job.  James mentioned her t-shirt line, but she never promotes it on the show.  Guess she must depend totally on the show for dough -- which says to me she might be desperate enough to do anything to stay on.  Maybe that's good for us tho.  Keep bringin' it Kristen, hun.

[TattleTeeny]

Comparisons to Jersey places are pretty irrelevant.  I could bring up studios here in Manhattan (in crumbling roach-infested walk-ups) going for over 2 thou a month, as a point of comparison to another similarly expensive market, but whatevs.  Everyone knows LA is expensive.  Not exactly earth-shattering news.  But it is interesting (to me) how people who don't make much manage to live there.  I don't get the impression any of 'em have been affected much (at least as far as how & where they live) by the additional Bravo income.  Maybe none of 'em are still making all that much from Bravo -- or not enough to alter their lives?

 

This ^ is irrelevant -- to what I said, anyway. My point wasn't the cost, it was that those places, which some people here refer to as dumps, look like perfectly normal apartments, and that if one believes that kind of place to be a dump, then one probably had a lot more money to spare at the ages of these VPR people. And I live in Jersey, not under a rock; I am well aware of apartment rates in NY.

Edited January 5, 2016 by TattleTeeny