S02.E12: 212

[carryanation]

Wow, Alison really doesn't give a damn about that baby though previously in the season she'd wanted another kid. I would have thought Joanie would have been a way to help overcome the lose of Gabriel and she would be extra attached and attentive to her as a way of making up for his death but I guess not. Denying Cole, someone who would care about her, the first years of his daughter's life is utterly unforgivable.

 

Well, now Helen's been utterly destroyed. You could say now she's the worst character after Scotty (and both are/were substance abusers). A pattern of drunk driving and then letting others take the fall for the resulting vehicular homicide is worse than anything even Noah's done, even though he finds new ways to make me hate him every week. Thinking he deserves credit for not cheating even though the only reason he didn't was because the other woman stopped it? Saying he was angry at Alison for announcing her pregnancy right after he (arguably) raped her?

 

I never liked Cole, so Helen was the one character left. But now... God, all these people are awful. Just... to hell with them all.

[grumpypanda]

I bet next season will start with Noah being released from prison after serving a couple of years. He'll probably even write a best selling novel about his prison adventures.

Alison will probably abandon Joanie with Cole and Luisa shortly after Noah is sent to prison but return to reclaim her man and baby after years of wandering the streets in inappropriate footwear.

Edited December 21, 2015 by grumpypanda

[izabella]

That's why I thought that maybe Helen and Noah were pulling a long con on Alison.  The lawyer didn't know about the baby not being Noah's, so Helen plants the idea that Alison had something to lose, to create doubt in the jury's mind.  And Noah is done with Alison, but pretending to be protecting her...

 

IIRC, it was Oscar who planted the idea that Joanie was not Noah's daughter.  Oscar told the lawyer, after being paid for the info, that he overheard Scottie and Allison arguing at the wedding, and he heard Scottie say, "That's our baby!" 

 

Helen didn't have anything to do with that until the lawyer asked her to get Joanie's pacifier so he could get a DNA test to figure out if Noah or Scottie was the baby's father.

[Constantinople]

What I don't understand is why Noah and Helen were on the road to The End, rather than the Butler house.

Noah had a reservation at The End -- IIRC from last season, he was able to cancel this reservation at a ridiculously late hour -- and Helen was staying at her mother's. When Noah was driving, he was going to drop Helen at her mother's and then drive to The End. Presumably after they switched and Helen started driving, the plan switched as well.  Helen would drop Noah at The End and then drive to her mother's.  They'd need to arrange for Noah to get his car the next day, but that shouldn't be difficult.

[Lemons]

 

Noah wouldn't be in any trouble because of double jeopardy, and even if the state went after Alison, Noah's confession and Helen's corroboration would be enough to establish reasonable doubt in her case. (Noah would just have to be damn sure neither the Feds nor the army could go after him for this incident before confessing. Helen's payment for Gottlieb's services could probably get him to clear this up for Noah in less than a day).

 

If Noah confessed then he would almost certainly lose a civil law suit that the family would bring. 

 

 I thought he was overcharged with vehicular homicide?  This wouldn't happen in real life.  They would never be able to show that he intended to hit him.  They will never be able to prove that he was driving under the influence or otherwise negligently driving.  The only possibility is that they would be able to show that he ran over Scott, killed him, and left the scene without reporting it.  That's bad enough. 

 

I hated Allison hiding in the bushes after Scott got hit by the car,  making stupid faces and noises.  Why would she hide when it was an accident?  It's hard to believe that not one of them would suggest going to the police and telling them what happened, to a certain extent.  Or at least tell the attorney the truth. 

[Cosmocrush]

I was confused by a lot in Alison's POV. Scotty is singing (btw, well done) and she whispers the paternity reveal to Noah in a crowded, noisy room and Noah doesn't react? Doesn't even say "well, who is the father."

Can someone tell me what exactly Allison said in that scene.  I listened to it four times and couldn't make it out.  From all the posts here, I'm guessing she said, "Cole is Joni's father" or something like that, but I couldn't get it. 

 

On Scotty being ahead of Allison in the boat, I think a simple time jump in her retelling explains that; it was simply the next time she saw Scotty - we don't know how much time had gone by.  

 

This is very late to be asking, but do we know if the POVs refer to how they remember events or how they perceive the events at the time?  Alison's perception of Scotty's behavior during his (beautiful) song and even by the side of the road was very threatening.  If it's a memory, it's possible she remembers him as more threatening than he was (trying to rape her) even if that is not the case.

Is there a difference?   Perception is reality?  

 

I think Noah making a special not of Allison's dress come into play here - it's the pale yellow of the waitstaff uniform she was wearing the first time he saw her.  

 

But anyway, it's believable to me that Allison remembers Scotty acting threatening because he was threatening her, if not with actual rape then some kind of assault.  He put her hands on her, it was a dark place, she defended herself.  At that point Scotty must have been furious and desperate - hanging on to the idea of being part of the Lockhart Lobster Roll for all that time, only to find it was all a trick to get him clean. I don't know what Cole was thinking telling him that literally in front of an open bar, but I don't really blame Cole either; it was his day and he was over the whole thing and had been for a long time.  

Edited December 21, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[HumblePi]

A very big let down. There is no way this case could have unfolded IRL as depicted by these writers.

 

Also, "Don't take this the wrong way, but I never want to see you again"

What the hell does that even mean?

Worst line I've heard in a very long time.

My husband said the same thing, how else could that be taken?  He also noticed that Noah was driving the car when he dropped Helen off at her mother's estate. We didn't see them switch seats again so I have to just make it up in my mind that they pulled over (again) and did the musical chairs driver's seat switcheroo.

 

Now I can shake my fist and swear to the sky "damn you writers!! You made me wish Noah would spontaneously combust into an orange ball of flames this entire season and then you wait until the final episode to make me feel sorry for him?  I think I hate all you writers.

[chocolatine]

 Rehab, even while court-mandated (which it apparently wasn't in this case), is always voluntary. People are free to sign out at any time, and if someone breaks the rules, the rehab can discharge them immediately. If Scotty had been in a psych ward under a 72 hour hold, maybe this idea could hold some weight, but would Cherry really have standing to sue for wrongful death? (I ask because I honestly don't know. I'm a member of the New York bar, so I should know, but I'm a member of another state's bar as well, and the statutes kind of a blend together years after taking the bars).

 

When Cole and Scotty first talked, Scotty said he was going back to rehab after the wedding (for another month, I think), which means that the rehab facility was OK with his plan to attend an event where alcohol is served before completing the program. If they hadn't been, then like you said, they'd have just kicked him out for breaking the rules. But since they apparently agreed to this outing on which he got drunk and got himself killed, wouldn't that be grounds for a negligence lawsuit?

[CleoCaesar]

Can someone tell me what exactly Allison said in that scene.

 

She whispers "Jonie's not your daughter."

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

For drama writers, this show is a study of how to write your leads as unredeemable assholes then at the last minute use your few/sole likable character to redeem them.

 

It was so clunky and obvious, I feel insulted. 

[Ellaria]

She whispers "Jonie's not your daughter."

 

And yet, in Noah's POV, she says (or Noah hears), "I don't know who Joanie's father is."

 

Alison will probably abandon Joanie with Cole and Luisa shortly after Noah is sent to prison but return to reclaim her man and baby after years of wandering the streets in inappropriate footwear.

 

With DSW stores everywhere, you would think that her footwear choices would have improved.

 

 

I hated Allison hiding in the bushes after Scott got hit by the car,  making stupid faces and noises.  Why would she hide when it was an accident?  It's hard to believe that not one of them would suggest going to the police and telling them what happened, to a certain extent.  Or at least tell the attorney the truth. 

 

Hiding in the bushes was silly as was her "I pushed him" declaration to Noah. It really doesn't surprise me that these three didn't go to the police or tell the truth to the attorney. Lots of stupid, selfish choices were made: Helen and Noah choosing to drive while impaired, Alison keeping the secret of Joanie's paternity for much too long, Noah bribing the car mechanic, etc.

[Cosmocrush]

She whispers "Jonie's not your daughter."

Thank you! 

 

So in the Allison version, there is no ambiguity, which I find disturbing.  It's one thing to not know the paternity of your child and quite another to know it and say nothing.   And because she doesn't want to deal with whatever Noah's reaction was, she simply leaves it out.   Or maybe Noah, like me, couldn't understand what she was saying, lol.  

 

Personally, I liked the story much better without the murder mystery.  Like so many here have noted, the crime was a the cover up/obstruction.  The whole thing could have been cleared up rather easily with Noah probably getting a fine for DWI, instead of the felony he's facing now.  

 

This is from the AV Club recap of this episode and I think is a pretty good description of Allison's versions:

 

I love the character of Alison because we all know someone like her, who on the surface appears devious and calculating, but from her own perspective, she’s just doing the best she can.

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/reveal-scottys-killer-doesnt-clear-anything-affair-230079

 

 

Edited December 22, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[Neurochick]

These people are SO stupid.  IT WAS A FUCKING ACCIDENT FOLKS.

 

Scotty was trying to rape Alison, she pushed him, he got hit by a car, the end.  

 

If they did an autopsy, they could see that Scotty was drunk.  Also if a person has been in rehab for months and picks up a drink they'd be even more shit faced than normal.

 

So now we know why Helen hired the lawyer, because she hit Scotty.

 

So Helen doesn't know Alison was there, but Alison knows Helen was there.

 

These are three of the dumbest people ever to walk the planet, I'm surprised they can all dress themselves.

 

I'm surprised there is even a trial for this mess.  First witness, pathologist, "Scotty was shit faced drunk, he probably walked into traffic and that's what happened.  No mystery here.  Case closed."

Edited December 22, 2015 by Neurochick

[sjohnson]

Writer characters are always SPECIAL, because I think being a writer is something that really speaks to the writers who write this stuff. The rest is inevitable when you don't have to use narrative logic because there is nothing true on the show.

[Cosmocrush]

I'm surprised there is even a trial for this mess.  First witness, pathologist, "Scotty was shit faced drunk, he probably walked into traffic and that's what happened.  No mystery here.  Case closed."

I don't disagree with anything in your post, but IF Noah and/or Helen had dialed 911 from the scene instead of leaving there would have been a toxicology test on the driver of the car first thing - whether Scotty walked into / was pushed into the road or was too drunk to stay out of the road.    So Noah or Helen wouldn't have been off the hook completely.    I think most hit and runs are about the drivers being intoxicated - impaired judgment.  

 

I think Allison was in shock at the scene.  Probably Noah too.   Only Helen seemed too impaired to care. "It was a deer!    I'm guessing that most hit and runs involve impaired drivers - too worried about personal consequences.  That's why they are often prosecuted to the full extent; not because they hit someone, but because they left and odds are they shouldn't have been behind the wheel in the first place.  

[Anne Elk]

But the question is, why was there even a murder trial in the first place? How did the police get from "dead guy is found lying in the middle of the road" to "Noah killed him on purpose because of the scene in his fantastically successful novel where someone else gets hit by a car!!!"

 

I have to admit, that question beats the hell out of me as well.

 

Helen should have just called the police the next day and said that she thought she hit a deer in the fog and didn't realize it was a person until she saw it in the news. By then, the police can't prove she knew it was a person she hit, and they can't prove she was drunk. They'll probably charge her with something but she's a rich woman with three dependent children, so she'd probably get off easy. The only reason for her not to do this is so that Noah can be Mr. Noble and throw himself under the bus to save her. Scotty was drunk and out of control; why wouldn't the police just assume the whole thing was an accident? or even a suicide?

Edited December 22, 2015 by Anne Elk

[nara]

Is there a difference?   Perception is reality?  

In my mind, there is a subtle difference. If it's their real-time perception, it would not be influenced by future events, but a memory can be influenced by later events. For example, once Alison knows that she pushed Scotty in front of a car, it might color her memories of him as him being more threatening, so that his death is more justified.

[LibertarianSlut]

If Noah confessed then he would almost certainly lose a civil law suit that the family would bring. 

Ok, losing a civil suit. And...is that worse than losing one's freedom, which is what Noah was facing by confessing? I think not. With a civil suit, all you can lose is money and property, both of which Noah has a wealth of. Are you saying it's not logical to confess to the murder after double jeopardy has attached in order to hedge against a civil suit? By his own behavior, Noah has shown that keeping the women in his life (Helen and Alison) out of jail is his main priority. Clearly, as his guilt-confessing behavior has shown, Noah isn't afraid of losing something (his freedom) to get that. I don't think we've seen anything to support the premise that the fear of losing a civil suit would have a material effect on Noah's behavior.

  

When Cole and Scotty first talked, Scotty said he was going back to rehab after the wedding (for another month, I think), which means that the rehab facility was OK with his plan to attend an event where alcohol is served before completing the program. If they hadn't been, then like you said, they'd have just kicked him out for breaking the rules. But since they apparently agreed to this outing on which he got drunk and got himself killed, wouldn't that be grounds for a negligence lawsuit?

Wait--on what grounds are you faulting the rehab? By virtue of the fact that Scotty was at the wedding, you are concluding that the rehab gave him a pass to attend same? Addictive behavior is part and parcel with lying and deceiving. Scotty could have left rehab via the front door to attend the wedding (voluntarily signing himself out), or sneaking out (they don't exactly guard the gates with German Shepards at most Long Island rehabs). I don't know how you get there from here. All we know is that Scotty left rehab to attend the wedding. That does not a lawsuit make. If rehab were found legally liable every time someone checked out to do something stupid, Charlie Sheen's, and a lot of other undeserving families would be rolling in the dough. It's just not how the law works, far as anything I've ever seen or heard.

[grumpypanda]

I was thinking about why this case was considered a murder in the first place and I vaguely remember one of the Lockharts mentioning a connection with a detective. Am I completely making this up or does anyone remember something like this? I want to say that the conversation was in reference to their drug dealing.

Maybe the lead detective is somehow in cahoots with the Lockharts to go after Noah. I know it sounds nuts but this is tv.

[Cosmocrush]

I was thinking about why this case was considered a murder in the first place and I vaguely remember one of the Lockharts mentioning a connection with a detective. Am I completely making this up or does anyone remember something like this? I want to say that the conversation was in reference to their drug dealing.

Maybe the lead detective is somehow in cahoots with the Lockharts to go after Noah. I know it sounds nuts but this is tv.

I do not remember anything like that but let's just say they all stayed at the scene and called the police.  Who says the cops would even believe the story of Allison pushing Scotty off her and into an oncoming car that just co-incidentally Noah and Helen were driving.  All three had a motive against Scotty (Allson for Joni's paternity and the The Lobster Roll, Noah  and Helen for Scotty's part in getting their minor child pregnant)    It could have still turned into a murder investigation.  

[Neurochick]

I do not remember anything like that but let's just say they all stayed at the scene and called the police. Who says the cops would even believe the story of Allison pushing Scotty off her and into an oncoming car that just co-incidentally Noah and Helen were driving. All three had a motive against Scotty (Allson for Joni's paternity and the The Lobster Roll, Noah and Helen for Scotty's part in getting their minor child pregnant) It could have still turned into a murder investigation.

I doubt it because of Scotty's history as an addict. Sadly not all victims are treated equally.

Shit, anyone who was at that reception could have killed Scotty for fucking up The House of the Rising Sun. Who sings that at a wedding and why did they all let him? How strange.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Neurochick

[Anne Elk]

A funny coincidence: If anyone has seen the film Georgia, which stars Mare Winningham, there's a scene in the movie where Jennifer Jason Leigh, playing Mare's sister, goes onstage at a club and sings an absolutely embarrassing, excruciating version of some song that I cannot recall. It goes on and on and on, and just gets worse and worse, and finally Mare has to go up onstage and rescue her by taking over the song and bringing it to a merciful conclusion. 

 

Anyway, I was kind of hoping that Cherry would do that to Scotty. It would have amused me.

[Turtle]

The whole thing was like some kind of sick nightmare, with Scotty wailing away onstage while glaring threateningly at everyone (as if Cole would have let him do that)...

That's an excellent point. While Scotty was singing, I could not believe that no one stepped in to stop him. The band even played for him! I wouldn't expect fisticuffs with Cole, but usually a friend of the groom or the bride's uncle or someone steps in and casually diffuses the situation (I've been to way too many drunken weddings, I think). I completely forgot about our unreliable narrator premise for those few moments.

I tend to think that Scotty was not nearly as threatening as Allison remembered him being. I think back to the episode showing her and Cole's viewpoints, and she saw Cole as very threatening then, seemingly without cause. She's consistent in always being the victim, I'll give her that.

Which leads me to why I think she lied about the baby's paternity- I'm sure she sees the whole situation as something that "happened" to her, rather than something she did.

I didn't have a problem with everyone being chummy, or at least cordial, at the wedding- it's been a couple of years, and it's nearly impossible to maintain that level of hostility for that long, especially when you're forced to deal with each other for parent-stuff. The rawness of the pain and resentment wears off.

[Cosmocrush]

Shit, anyone who was at that reception could have killed Scotty for fucking up The House of the Rising Sun. Who sings that at a wedding and why did they all let him? How strange.

Ha!  It was strange but I've been to plenty of weddings with plenty of drunks and there is often some sort of drama.  

 

That's an excellent point. While Scotty was singing, I could not believe that no one stepped in to stop him. The band even played for him! I wouldn't expect fisticuffs with Cole, but usually a friend of the groom or the bride's uncle or someone steps in and casually diffuses the situation (I've been to way too many drunken weddings, I think). I completely forgot about our unreliable narrator premise for those few moments.

[snip]

I didn't have a problem with everyone being chummy, or at least cordial, at the wedding- it's been a couple of years, and it's nearly impossible to maintain that level of hostility for that long, especially when you're forced to deal with each other for parent-stuff. The rawness of the pain and resentment wears off.

Yes, the unreliable narrator premise.  Who knows if Cole just stood there listening when Scotty was singing, he probably wasn't even in the same room.  This was Allison's version and I'm sure she wasn't paying any attention to anyone but Scotty.  That's why no one else made it into that scene.  Even Noah's reaction to "Joni's not your daughter" was suppressed/left out/denied.  

 

I didn't have a problem with the friendliness between exes either.  After three years sometimes the anger and pain leaves and the friendship remains - especially if you share kids or a business. 

Edited December 22, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[Cirien]

Speaking of the different perspectives: Did anyone notice how drastically different Allison and Noah remembered the apartment above the diner? From Noah's perspective it was drab and cold and unfurnished. From Allison's perspective it's done up beautifully and looks like a home and something she takes pride in. To me that's just another indication of how much Noah really doesn't respect her or her dream and ambitions.

 

It's funny how last season we were all talking about how Helen was the snob, whenever she dismissed Allison as a "waitress" but this season we saw  Noah do the same thing when he introduced her as a "Nurse" and not a Waitress ( Yes I know she was a Nurse, but when Noah met her she was a waitress-) going back to school, to be  a doctor, that would have been fine. Yes maybe it was to avoid more comparisons with the book but I thought it was interesting.

[krpa]

I LOVED Scott's interpretation of House of rising sun.

 

I don't understand how in Noah's POV Alison says she's not sure who the father is and in Alison's POV she says to Noah that he's not the father as if she's 100% sure Cole is biological father. I'd think it would be the other way around... So are we suppose to believe she 100% sure that Cole is Joanie's father? Did she do a DNA test?

It also seems strange she doesn't really care about Joanie, is she like severely depressed?

Another weird thing was how all the exes were present at the wedding, but then again it seems to me that in American shows people usually don't have an issue with these kind of things.

 

So how exactly are Alison and Noah gonna go from here to the night of his arrest? When Jeffries and the policemen knocked on the door they seemed to be a happily married couple but I don't see how that could be possible after all we've seen in the last couple of episodes. I bet the writers are simply gonna skip that part.

[Irlandesa]

I LOVED Scott's interpretation of House of rising sun.

It is the only reason I haven't deleted this from my DVR yet.  I find I want to watch it again.  (I just found it on YouTube so if it stays, the show goes from my DVR.)

 

[ScoobieDoobs]

 

Yeah, this is about as far away as you can get for a song choice for a wedding, eh?  Guess it's about as big a fuck you as Scotty could get out.  

 

Oy, Treem, can't you get Ruth to close her mouth & wipe away the drool -- um, EVER?

 

Sure, Colin is wailing his head off there, but me luvs it.

[Ruby25]

So, honestly, after lying to him about Joanie's paternity and then causing his ex-wife to inadvertently murder Scotty, I'm kinda surprised that Noah would seriously want to go back to her and that the accident is the thing that makes him realize he wants to stay with Alison, raise her daughter as his own and get married. Because I wouldn't. Seriously.

[JenE4]

Not to be a downer on the whole "why didn't they just..." line of thinking, but every show and movie and book ever could pretty much be solved without any hoopla if the protagonist just talked to someone about what's going on. If they immediately called the police or Alison was upfront about Joanie, then we wouldn't have a story. Is it unnecessarily convoluted to get us where we are? Yeah. But without it, we wouldn't have this entire plot line. I mean other character decisions and actions are ripe for discussing character motivations and characterization in general, but this is too big of a plot device to throw "just call the police, problem solved" logic at it, you know?

[Neurochick]

So, honestly, after lying to him about Joanie's paternity and then causing his ex-wife to inadvertently murder Scotty, I'm kinda surprised that Noah would seriously want to go back to her and that the accident is the thing that makes him realize he wants to stay with Alison, raise her daughter as his own and get married. Because I wouldn't. Seriously.

 

Wait, Causing his wife to murder Scotty?  I think not.   Helen made the choice to drive drunk.  Helen made the choice not to tell the police what she did.  She's a wealthy woman with minor children, did she really think they'd put her in jail?  I don't think so.

 

I never could stand Helen and now I know why.  She killed someone and tried to put it on Alison because she took the pacifier.  What a horrible, entitled shrew!

 

I think the writing for this show has been excellent.  I think a lot of women sided with Helen, maybe because they got dumped on cheated on or maybe they saw that growing up.  I liked how now it's like, "Oh, so it's not Saint Helen."

 

BTW, why was Helen at the wedding in the first place?

[GeminiDancer]

 

BTW, why was Helen at the wedding in the first place?

 

Margaret was there, and Helen was her plus one.

 

 

Wait, Causing his wife to murder Scotty?  I think not.   Helen made the choice to drive drunk.  Helen made the choice not to tell the police what she did.  She's a wealthy woman with minor children, did she really think they'd put her in jail?  I don't think so.

 

This isn't all on Helen though. Noah knew that she was impaired and had a record, and he still asked her to drive. He could have called the police once he saw that she hit Scotty, but he didn't.

[truthaboutluv]

Noah and Helen were both incredibly irresponsible to get behind the wheel of a car knowing how drunk they both were, when they very easily could have just called a cab. But you know, contrivances and all. 

[quaintirene]

I know I'm dumb. But what was the significance of Scotty singing The House Of The Rising Sun? The way it was set up I assumed he'd sing something with some kind of message to Alison and/or Cole. But I've known that song for years and in the New Orleans version which Scotty sang it's about a brothel. The Lobster Roll is many illicit things. But so far I haven't heard that it's a House of Pleasure!

[attica]

I give the show a pass for "House of the Rising Sun" at a wedding as being in keeping with Scotty's need for everything to be about him and his pain. I will not give it a pass for "April Come She Will" at a wedding, and that includes both Paul Simon's and Art Garfunkel's weddings! Holy cats: "A love once new has now grown old" is hardly the sentiment you want floating over your dance floor. And no kidding, it's not a very good tune to dance to.

 

As an anvil, on the other hand, it's terrific. So: good job, show!

[Constantinople]

BTW, why was Helen at the wedding in the first place?

Isn't it traditional for the bride's mother's employer's daughter to attend the wedding?

Luisa is practically Helen's niece, by work if not by blood or marriage.

 

Noah and Helen were both incredibly irresponsible to get behind the wheel of a car knowing how drunk they both were, when they very easily could have just called a cab. But you know, contrivances and all.

Doesn't do any good to call a cab if the the other good-for-nothing-Lockhart-brother-taxi-dispatcher isn't there to answer the call because he's attending Cole's wedding.

For that matter, as the only cabbie in town, I blame Cole for selfishly taking the day off to celebrate his marriage.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Affair Has Ex On The Beach
Both Noah and Alison reconnect with their exes at Cole's wedding and wonder: how might things have been if they had never had their titular affair? Certainly better than this season finale, one imagines.

[quaintirene]

I give the show a pass for "House of the Rising Sun" at a wedding as being in keeping with Scotty's need for everything to be about him and his pain. I will not give it a pass for "April Come She Will" at a wedding, and that includes both Paul Simon's and Art Garfunkel's weddings! Holy cats: "A love once new has now grown old" is hardly the sentiment you want floating over your dance floor. And no kidding, it's not a very good tune to dance to.

It was the song playing over the montage of loveless couplings between Benjamin and Mrs Robinson in The Graduate. I thought it was there to point out that Noah's affair with Alison was basically over and they were just going through the motions even before Alison's revelation.

Edited December 22, 2015 by quaintirene

[TV Diva Queen]

Anyone have a clue what Noah and Alison were saying to each other on the dance floor?  

[RedheadZombie]

Wait, Causing his wife to murder Scotty?  I think not.   Helen made the choice to drive drunk.  Helen made the choice not to tell the police what she did.  She's a wealthy woman with minor children, did she really think they'd put her in jail?  I don't think so.

 

I never could stand Helen and now I know why.  She killed someone and tried to put it on Alison because she took the pacifier.  What a horrible, entitled shrew!

 

I think the writing for this show has been excellent.  I think a lot of women sided with Helen, maybe because they got dumped on cheated on or maybe they saw that growing up.  I liked how now it's like, "Oh, so it's not Saint Helen."

 

BTW, why was Helen at the wedding in the first place?

Thank you! Poor Helen, innocently speeding down the street drunk and distracted. If Noah didn't insist on stopping, Helen would have just sped off, uncaring if the pedestrian was still alive and needing help. Helen had really grown on me this season, but she's supremely flawed just like the others. The way she worked with the attorney in a pre-meditated way to frame Alison. And the way she sashays into court with her lips pursed and nose in the air, knowing that she was responsible for this, just amazes me.

And I think both Helen and Margaret attended the wedding to show that they're not too snobbish to go to a wedding of the help's.

Seriously though, it was contrived to place Helen at the scene, and it verges on character suicide. Just like having Alison away from Joanie. Cole already looks like big enough of a fool without having him see Joanie on a daily basis and not figuring it out, not to mention Luisa. So the writing calls for Cole to have never seen Joanie, which isn't possible if Alison has the baby with her, and they're working closely together.

[truthaboutluv]

Noah basically told her that he would clean the car, bring it to a mechanic and say that he hit a deer. Alison kept blubbering some more about how she pushed Scotty and then it dissolved into them telling each other how much they loved them. 

[attica]

BTW, why was Helen at the wedding in the first place?

 

Helen said she was Margaret's "date". Why she would have accepted an invitation like that was unexplored.

It was the song playing over the montage of loveless couplings between Benjamin and Mrs Robinson in The Graduate. I thought it was there to point out that Noah's affair with Alison was basically over and they were just going through the motions even before Alison's revelation.

 

Yeah, I get why the show used it. I don't get why the characters did, is my point. I've played my share of weddings; it's common for the participants to weigh in on the set list, and sad ballads about wasted/expired love are usually left off. (Unless one of the wedding party wrote it, or something.)

[RedheadZombie]

Anyone have a clue what Noah and Alison were saying to each other on the dance floor?

Alison: Is there damage to the car?

Noah: Not much. I gave it to a mechanic. He'll fix it for me in the morning.

Alison: What, you told him what happened?

Noah: No. I told him I hit a deer. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

Alison: Shh. Don't cry. Don't cry.

Noah: I love you.

Alison: I love you, too.

Then Noah begins crying.

[TV Diva Queen]

Alison: Is there damage to the car?

Noah: Not much. I gave it to a mechanic. He'll fix it for me in the morning.

Alison: What, you told him what happened?

Noah: No. I told him I hit a deer. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

Alison: Shh. Don't cry. Don't cry.

Noah: I love you.

Alison: I love you, too.

Then Noah begins crying

How the heck did you hear this?  LOL  Thank you!!

[RedheadZombie]

I give the show a pass for "House of the Rising Sun" at a wedding as being in keeping with Scotty's need for everything to be about him and his pain. I will not give it a pass for "April Come She Will" at a wedding, and that includes both Paul Simon's and Art Garfunkel's weddings! Holy cats: "A love once new has now grown old" is hardly the sentiment you want floating over your dance floor. And no kidding, it's not a very good tune to dance to.

 

As an anvil, on the other hand, it's terrific. So: good job, show!

I think they go for the general ambience. I've always found it a little strange that the opening montage song is from the view point of the ocean - when that's how Gabriel died.

But nothing's better than that idiot Sean Hannity using the song Independence Day for his radio show. The song's about a wife killing her abusive husband, but he would blast "Let freedom ring .....", like it was the National Anthem.

I like intense sad songs, the darker and twistier the better. But you're right, it's odd at a wedding.

[RedheadZombie]

How the heck did you hear this?  LOL  Thank you!!

I always use closed captioning. My favorite shows are Game of Thrones (accents), and The Walking Dead (mumblers). I wouldn't know what was going on half the time otherwise.

[Cosmocrush]

Isn't it traditional for the bride's mother's employer's daughter to attend the wedding?

Luisa is practically Helen's niece, by work if not by blood or marriage.

 

Heh.   Margaret said she paid for the whole thing, of course she would be there.   Luisa's  mother is like family to Margaret, probably even moreso now that Bruce is apparently long gone.  

Edited December 22, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[quaintirene]

Yeah, I get why the show used it. I don't get why the characters did, is my point. I've played my share of weddings; it's common for the participants to weigh in on the set list, and sad ballads about wasted/expired love are usually left off. (Unless one of the wedding party wrote it, or something.)

Yes. But these aren't real people. So occasionally they don't do real-people things.

[Neurochick]

Thank you! Poor Helen, innocently speeding down the street drunk and distracted. If Noah didn't insist on stopping, Helen would have just sped off, uncaring if the pedestrian was still alive and needing help. Helen had really grown on me this season, but she's supremely flawed just like the others. The way she worked with the attorney in a pre-meditated way to frame Alison. And the way she sashays into court with her lips pursed and nose in the air, knowing that she was responsible for this, just amazes me.

And I think both Helen and Margaret attended the wedding to show that they're not too snobbish to go to a wedding of the help's.

Seriously though, it was contrived to place Helen at the scene, and it verges on character suicide. Just like having Alison away from Joanie. Cole already looks like big enough of a fool without having him see Joanie on a daily basis and not figuring it out, not to mention Luisa. So the writing calls for Cole to have never seen Joanie, which isn't possible if Alison has the baby with her, and they're working closely together.

 

Helen is a witch IMO, I don't like to use the "b" word, but that's what I really think she is.  She hit Scotty and wanted to frame Alison?  WTF?  Okay, I know she doesn't like Alison but to frame her for murder?  I detest Helen even more than I did before.  Helen is no better than the rest of them, no in fact she's worse because  none of them killed anybody.

[nilyank]

 

 

Alison: Is there damage to the car?

Noah: Not much. I gave it to a mechanic. He'll fix it for me in the morning.

Alison: What, you told him what happened?

Noah: No. I told him I hit a deer. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

Alison: Shh. Don't cry. Don't cry.

Noah: I love you.

Alison: I love you, too.

Then Noah begins crying

 

So if Noah didn't hear Alison mumbling that she pushed Scotty, at that point Noah probably can presume that Alison only witnessed Helen hitting Scotty.