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S04.E09: Dark Waters


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After the city is attacked again, Oliver makes a bold move against HIVE. Malcolm checks in on Thea and leaves her with a warning. Things take a horrible turn when Damien Darhk retaliates in a brutal manner at Oliver’s mayoral holiday party.
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I knew they were going to do something nasty to Felicity. You can't have a happy marriage proposal on this show. If Felicity actually dies, I'm done. I refuse to watch shows that are complete downers anymore. I want to have fun watching a show.

 

Is it really too much to ask that villains get glorious comeuppances and violent, gory deaths? That's all I ask for the holidays.

  • Love 13
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I enjoyed this ep for the most part. It wasn't as angsty as I was expecting. Well, I suppose it was, but I was okay with this type of angst. Oh Felicity. I was moved by all the Olicity interactions and engagement hijinks, but then I remembered Oliver is a lying liar who lies, and it just made me sad. I did love that Donna had that ring scoped out and evaluated in 1.4 seconds. Never change, Donna! (Also, please never leave.) Unfortunately, as sweet as I found every conversation, it was tainted for me. I'm maintaining my zen detachment, but this could have been pinnacle OTP for me. If I can pretend last week never happened, I'll be a much happier viewer. And I did note that fucker didn't even make an attempt to tell Felicity about his secret kid. /side eye

 

I didn't come close to crying at the end. I think they cut away from Oliver pulling Felicity out of the limo way, way too fast. Let that moment breathe, Editor! I'm LOLing at the promo for the next ep, though. Way to be subtle!

 

I can't figure out DD. He has issues with kidnapping daughters but has no problem mowing down a group of children. I do enjoy his bold attitude, though, and his appreciation for a good red.

 

I liked seeing Oliver finally kicking ass again. Clearly, he just needs some more solo missions to get his groove back.

 

I know I should just avoid commenting, but damn, KC has one emotion, one stance, and it's angry, arms crossed. It's distractingly bad. Even her pep talks are full of irritation. That scream still looks absolutely ridiculous. Every single time. And why does everyone stop what they're doing when she screams? Whatever, I'll never get it, and I'll never appreciate it.

 

Malcolm - never change. You've well overstayed your welcome, but I can't say you don't amuse me with your contempt for everyone including your Buckles snark.

 

Gotta love how Arrow celebrates the holidays. Lampshading your Nazi leanings doesn't make a gas chamber during Chanukah less horrific. Stay classy, Arrow!

Lance! Stop making me hope I'll get my XMas wish with one (or both) of the Lance family dying. It's not going to be the one I want so every tease is just cruel.

 

Other than the shark, the flashbacks were zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

Poor Diggle. DR was great in the scenes with his brother. The story seems a bit stalled though. I'm going to need some progression.

Edited by calliope1975
  • Love 12
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Also, major congrats to the spoiler thread for guessing everything right. Ninja collective detective-ing right there.

 

Also also, trolololol these dumbasses linking Felicity getting shot to the grave flash-forward IN THE PROMO instead of in the episode. Hi, CW, I know how to count. October to Christmas is NOT six months.

Edited by dtissagirl
  • Love 19
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Nice try, show, but you know I’m not buying that ending!

 

Last week’s episode pisses me off even more now, because this episode reminded me how great this show can be when it wants to be. Damn you, show.

 

This episode was full of so many legitimate surprises. I wasn’t expecting Laurel to find out about Lance, but I liked how it happened, though it doesn’t seem like there are going to be any repercussions, not that they’re really needed at this point. And whoa, I couldn’t believe they went there with the gas chamber and Damien even mentioned the Nazis. And maybe the biggest surprise of all was that Laurel was useful and actually likable. It’s a Christmas miracle!

 

After last week, I couldn’t imagine anything that would make me excited for the proposal. But honestly, the moment Donna let out that scream. LOLOLOLOLOLOL. So many lolz. Donna is the best thing ever and Charlotte Ross and Emily are magical together. Both scenes of them discussing the proposal were hysterical. And I adored Felicity figuring out the “souffle” and then telling Oliver she knew. I so didn’t see that coming, but I loved it. And Oliver and Felicity killed me in all their scenes together. I hate them and their stupid, incredible chemistry so much, because they make me forget all about secrets and lies while I revel in what amazing partners they are to each other, in every sense of the word. I don’t know why the show feels like they have to throw artificial obstacles in their way when they are so effortlessly perfect together. Damn you, SA and EBR!

 

Speaking of EBR, did I mention how magical she and CR are together? Because OMG, that scene of them with Quentin made me scream laughing. I had my doubts about Smoaknlance, but it was completely worth it for that scene.

 

Loved unhinged Oliver beating the shit out of people. I’ve missed badass, dangerous Oliver so much. Definitely going to need more of that when the show returns in January.

Edited by KenyaJ
  • Love 23
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My thoughts on the episode that I was writing down throughout:

 

Of course the writers would put a mini Felicity in a scene and have Oliver save her. It's a bit overkill.

 

Wish they would give Oliver a running opponent. Having to run against someone who wants to destroy him politically while facing DD who wants to just destroy him would be a damn good storyline.

 

I don't quite understand why Oliver would make this announcement to have callers call the hotline and then have his BTS team mate(s) handle it. Why wouldn't people from his actual campaign be doing this?

 

We BEST get Laurels reaction to Q/D dating. It's nice to see Q actually smiling. If only they gave the Lance family more fun moments like the Smoaks get to get.

 

I love DD, he is such a great villain. They really need to work on giving the show more great villains both minor and major like The Flash has.

 

REALLLY want to know when Laurel is going to find out her dad is working with DD as a double agent and that she has a target on her back, just as I wonder if

 

DD will actually act upon it. She has yet to have any scenes with him and I need to them to give her some GOOOOD stuff between those two.

 

Where do they find these random Ghosts? Do they just stand around Star City trying to break into things? They really are just Arrows version of Power Rangers Putty Patrol.

 

Laurel/Oliver scene, how nice.

 

Well guess now Laurel knows. Ugh oh...more secrets, lol of course Laurel is forever being left out of the loop. Unfortunately, with L/O being in a friendly place now, they probably wont have her confront him about it.

 

Lord there is a whole storyline between Malcolm and Quentin that needs to be explored! Sadly it will most likely just be ignored.

 

This may be one of my favorite Laurel/Quentin scenes, like ever.

 

The Olicity scene with her telling him that she can make her own decisions was a nice, touching scene.

 

Im kind of sad that DD didn't make a joke about Green Arrows lack of facial hair.

 

Semi-kudos on them actually using the Canary Cry halfway decently, though they go ahead and do it again and it is basically useless. Sara's was able to literally knock people unconscious, that's what I need from this writers okay?

 

I really want DD's people to bring in some bigger henchmen to help him with his vigilante problem. The Ghosts are beyond played out.

 

Can't say how nice and refreshing it is to see Laurel/Quentin being happy with one another.

 

I'm kind of surprised that Oliver and co. let their guard down and didn't think about a retaliation.

 

And of course que the "Felicitys dead!" comments. Lol at this cliff hanger that isn't remotely a cliff hanger.

 

Overall this is probably the best episode of the season and is what I want more of.

 

Only thing I probably would have changed/added is Oliver being more worried about Thea when she was in the gas chamber. That is his little sister and last living relative but he was more worried about Felicity. Don't get me wrong, I am ok with their scenes in this episode, but Oliver/Thea deserved a bit more emotion during her near death experience.

  • Love 4
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I have ZERO use for the Flashbacks.

 

But that was still a great episode.  Loved it.  In no particular order...

 

- BM drama, hidden kid, secrets, blah blah blah - the proposal still rocked.  And it rocked because she found out and told him she would have said yes and he should have still asked.  So he did!  I loved it.

 

- I do NOT believe Felicity in in that grave BUT I do now wonder if they fake her death to get her off Darhk's radar.

 

- I loved that the Canary Cry was good for something.

 

- And Malcolm was awesome.  (You just love having minions!)  And he conveniently proved that Oliver is not GA - ha!

 

More thoughts later....

  • Love 4
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I was totally okay with the proposal and how it worked out. At first I was annoyed that Donna spoiled it but it led to an honest talk between O/F and guh! This is the couple I love so much. Olicity KILLED it tonight. Look how great they write them when they're not contriving pointless drama. 

Edited by Guest
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Well, it's not Felicity in that grave, the timeline doesn't match up.  Nice fake out though.

 

We get multiple mentions of Felicity being Jewish, and Darhk stuck her in a gas chamber after talking about the Nazis.  Well, that was done with all the subtlety of a monster truck bigger than Truckasaurus.

 

Donna and Felicity's reaction to the ring was hilarious, as was Oliver's reaction to Felicity stumbling over her words after meeting Curtis' husband.

 

Enjoyed the episode, not as good as The Flash's fall finale, but still good.

Edited by Jediknight
  • Love 1
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Malcolm was the best part of the episode. I never thought I'd say that.

 

"I'm Ra's al Ghoul" delivered with the perfect amount of a snark and incredulity. I laughed a lot

"Oh, good, the bondage outfit" LOLOLOL

 

 

Felicity looked pretty fucking dead you motherfuckers. Help me. :(

  • Love 5
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If Felicity dies, I quit.

 

Man, Laurel was likable this episode. And I believed her when she found Mini Felicity adorable!

 

Willa Holland and/or her stunt double were on it in that fight scene.

 

Go Donna/Quentin! Please give me weirded out Laurel/Felicity bonding in the future.

 

Great acting, beautiful proposal. Their poor driver.

 

I suddenly realize how odd and funny it is that they never referenced Andy being in their cage in the crossover. Although to be fair, their cage seems to no longer be in the center of the lair.

  • Love 6
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I don't watch this show much anymore, but I admit i still keep track of spoilers so I watched tonight and surprisingly enjoyed most of it.  Oliver didn't grate, I actually thought some of the Olicity scenes were pretty good, which is weird because I usually don't care about them at all. I loved Laurel helping to save the day and she even smiled several times,which is something I wished happened more often, and her and Quentin's scenes were pretty good too.   As an aside, I have no idea what is with this obsession about Laurel crossing her arms.  Like, come on.  

 

I didn't even mind Malcolm that much and I pretty much despise him.  I usually mute the tv when the flashbacks appear, but I figure I didn't miss much.

 

I was actually pretty engaged with everything except the whole gas chamber/Nazi stuff.  No one should be put in a gas chamber obviously, but it seemed doubly insensitive to put Felicity in it given that she's Jewish and tv shows are way too casual about invoking Nazism, oh, but this is probably another topic. 

 

No way do I think Felicity is dead.  I might not be into Arrow as much as I was in its first season, but I'll come back to check out the winter premiere at least, even though I remain very, very cautious about being too invested in anything that happens here.

Edited by Betweenthisandthat
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Also, major congrats to the spoiler thread for guessing everything right. Ninja collective detective-ing right there.

 

Also also, trolololol these dumbasses linking Felicity getting shot to the grave flash-forward IN THE PROMO instead of in the episode. Hi, CW, I know how to count. October to Christmas is NOT six months.

Tell that to the folks on twitter. Lots of "OMG, Felicity's gonna die!"

  • Love 1
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I totally missed Oliver getting bitten by the shark - did they actually show that? If so, I tuned right out.

 

You just saw the shark swimming towards him.  I don't remember seeing him get bitten.

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The gas chamber thing was not a good look, but other than that I really enjoyed this.

 

If the writers were trying to get me to forget that Oliver is a lying liar who lies by writing sweet and honest Olicity scenes, it worked. Everything I love about them was on display tonight. 

 

Felicity reacting to Donna and Quentin was the best. Donna's reaction to finding the ring was amazing as well. I wish we could have her around always.

 

"Excellent! You've got your bondage outfit on!"

  • Love 13
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I totally missed Oliver getting bitten by the shark - did they actually show that? If so, I tuned right out.

 

I think they showed a glimpse of the shark. Then, Oliver's walking out of the lake, bay, ocean? What is that thing? Anyhoo, for once, the show was subtle. I was hoping for some type of Oliver/Shark fight. Let down!

  • Love 4
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I'm impressed, and pleased my faith in WM was proved worth it.

 

I really liked Malcolm in this too.  Shady, especially after last but still concerned about Thea, and still snarking at how easy it is to get into the new lair.

 

Mini-Felicity is too cute, and as focused as Felicity herself.

 

I love Quentin's "Laurel doesn't know about this" and Felicity replying that she was going to hit herself on the head with a heavy object so she would forget too.

 

Poor Diggle, being rejected by his brother.

 

Is it really too much to ask that villains get glorious comeuppances and violent, gory deaths? That's all I ask for the holidays.

That;s how you know it was a good episode.

 

Damian Darhk is the worst, ordering Oliver and Felicity killed and then going home to celebrate with his family.

  • Love 5
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HIVE member are loyal to a fault. What the hell is happening there? What are they putting in the water at HIVE HQ? Definitely can't be simple brainwashing.

I really liked this episode. The rescue was awesome. Merlyn almost died horribly! YAY! They really made the proposal fit both characters. It was nice. Felicity is so neurotic and awesome. 

  • Love 2
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FUCKING BALLSY!!!!

Loved the subtle misdirections! No limo in the water. No audible gasping ILY.

LOVED:

Honest proposal talk: The eventual proposal was 100% OLICITY. They talked about it and moved toward it together. BM, Kid, Stupid Oliver WHO?!?!

Mama Smoak: Truly love everything about her. Loved SmoaknLance! I don't care if PB just wants Lance to get laid--as long as he takes great care of Donna in the sack!

Diggle Brothers: Digg lobbed truth bombs!

Thea: LOVED her scrunchy happy face during the proposal!

Felicity: Girl KICKED ASS!

Malcolm: Bondage suit!!! HAHAHA

DD: Star Wars came early--Darth Damien! His intentional cheese is SSOOOOO much more fun and WAYYYYYY more menacing than MM's unintentional cheese. Loved all of DD's lines.

TEAM ARROW: HELL YEAH! (Cue any Toby Keith over-the-top patriotic song)

LL: She was SO GOOD for a lot of this! The writers' diabolical plan WORKED! LL is AWESOME compared to BM!

Can't believe they owned the whole gas chamber--YIKES!

I get whiplash trying to keep up with Thea's relationship with Malcolm!

Please kill Poppy now! I shuddered at the stupidity of that SL! I cursed OQ's existence when he touched her shoulder before he went into the water.

Besides OQ's puppy dog face about the kids being there during the attack, I didn't get any vibes about the kid.

Sweet Jesus, Felicity!

  • Love 4
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- Andy/Diggle. Love seeing Diggle have to struggle with the man his brother turned into. It's a really interesting dynamic when Diggle is so black and white about things. DR always kills these scenes. Love it.

 

- Felicity was everything. Her face when Donna showed her the ring was priceless. And I loved her rambling and then wanting to talk to Oliver but also unsure about it. Also her reaction to Donna/Quentin was the best and exactly how I feel about it.

 

- Olicity were incredible and touching and I don't think I've loved them more. CURSE THESE EVIL MONSTERS. They know what they're doing. But this is the relationship I invested in. They were perfect and I actually really liked the proposal, even though I don't like public proposals. Damn it, it worked.

 

- Malcolm. OMG I even liked Malcolm, even though I kind of wanted Damien to keep squeezing the life out of him. I blame Barrowman. 

 

- I really loved seeing Laurel, Diggle, Thea and Felicity kick ass in that underground tunnel thing. Even Felicity got a few hits in and it worked. 

Edited by Guest
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Well that was stressful.  But...using the gas chamber reference during Hannukah? That didn't sit well with me.  

 

Five minutes before the end I was just waiting for the anvils to drop.  Then you see the happy couple in the car and I'm like "No show. Don't cliff hang on this.  Can't they have--nope they went there."  I'll assume she isn't dead but ugh anyway.

 

Malcolm as the Arrow was fun but sadly I was staring at John Barrowman's eyebrows and said "did he get work done?" 

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THAT was so effing good. I mean, flashbacks are still a waste of time and they definitely halted the momentum of present-day events, but other than that. WOW! They delivered on the emotions. Felicity telling Oliver about the ring. His response and their talk. Their conversation in the cage and the heart eyes (OMG!). Felicity bashing the baddies' heads in is all kinds of awesome. Mama Smoak finding the ring. Quentin and Mama Smoak, brief but hilarious. John Diggle was making me cry with every scene with his brother. Malcolm made me laugh and I really enjoyed him tonight. Thea is adorable and kick ass. And that proposal ... I love it. It felt organic, it felt natural, it didn't feel tainted by recent events. *breathes* More later, but damn that was good.

  • Love 7
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It was really a good episode. There was something for everyone to enjoy.

 

I really wish the show would stop making it seem like it is Felicity who is in the grave. They could spread the hints around instead of just concentrating on Felicity. Even if it is her, they need to find someone else soon. 

  • Love 1
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I wonder why Felicity hasn't noticed a massive electricity drain for the corn/algae grow cavern? Lots of electricity for seeing at least a football field or two's worth of crop.

 

Everything Donna and Donna/Quentin and Felicity/ heavy pan was delightful and fun. Please don't leave us, Donna. Please stay longer than this season, too.

 

Malcolm? Shouldn't you read your predecessor's journals or whatever so you too can do the Darth throat squeeze and telekineticly throw folks around? Damien was supposed to be a contemporary of your teacher/ Nyssa's dad. Maybe do your research? Keep the snark. Also, green looks good on you too.

 

Part of me hopes that Andy is just a bad guy. No cover, no other agenda, just a guy that decided it was worth it to turn to selling drugs. You can't beat an outlook into submission, though Oliver tries. You can't physically takedown someone who doesn't want to be "good" anymore. What do they do then? Turn Andy over to Quentin, or to the Army?  It could be an interesting angle, but I don't think it would be considered flashy enough to explore. Also, it's not a flashback about Oliver.

 

About the flashback, is it just me or did that map/blueprint/whatever look awfully crisp for being underwater in a leaky container for a bit over a year? Just me? Okay.

 

ITA with the tone deafness of the Dark ramble about the Nazis. Was it as needed as the writers thought? There was such a push to remember Donna and Felicity's heritage that the usage of the Nazi's got me ranting at my husband. I cannot believe that wasn't changed out for another horrific instance of gassing folks. It's Hanukkah, for gravy's sake!  smh

 

I also loved Lil' 'Licity... until she was written as gaping at the RC Chopper of Doom. Then again, she got to be tackled by Oliver, which isn't entirely a horrid experience. Painful, possibly, but the child is alive to complain. And be recruited to Palmer Tech's STEM initiative for girls. *g*

 

Still dealing with the intense good and the eye-rollingly 'huh?', but overall? I enjoyed this episode.

 

PS: Why not ask Curtis, as Oliver, to see where the phone pinged to? Since Curtis is aware that Felicity was kidnapped. Curtis also seems to get on well with his boss. I hope with Felicity down ( not out), that Curtis steps up and dazzles.

 

PPS: Can someone make the flashback Island dude choke on all that annoying chaw? I am not a fan of chaw irl, so it's extra annoying and distracting in an already tiresome segment.

Edited by Actionmage
  • Love 6
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Well that was definitely stressful, but no real surprises... and of course, Felicity will be okay. Nice try, "Previously on..."

 

Actually, wait, I take that back -- there WERE a couple of surprises.

1) Laurel was likeable in this ep??? And KC wasn't playing it one-note sullen/argumentative? She was sweet with Felicity and the kids (groan at the anvilicious saving of Mini!Felicity) and she was remarkably soft in her scene with Quentin. Also the perpetual discussion between the two of them about what they'd do if the other was hurt... there's a Lance in that grave, right?

2) The whole HIVE plan is bizarre, and the gas chamber/Nazi references were totally unnecessary and disgusting, honestly. 

 

Also, I wanted to be so happy about the Oliver and Felicity developments, but I have a hard time not shouting "You're a lying liar who lies, Oliver!" every time I see him onscreen. Especially when he was particularly horrified by the kids being under attack, since that seemed a direct reference to kid-who-shall-not-be-named... actually, was that whole storyline even in the previouslys? 

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If Felicity has indeed died Darke has just gotten the following superheroes out for his blood:

 

The Arrow

The Flash

White Canary

Black Canary

Speedy

Arsenal

Vibe

Hawkman

Hawwoman

Firestorm

 

If he could see the DC universe Loki of Asgard would be saying "damn, this Darke guy is totally screwed."

Edited by madhacker
  • Love 18
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